PLANESHIFT Council - Very Important!

[Kiern]

Well, you can\'t be sure what their going to be until they get things more worked out and organized...it could turn out that way (which, I will admit, is more than likely) but it could also turn out to be entirely different.

[Sabrewulf]

After looking at Acraig\'s reply and the link, I believe that there is no need to set up a Senate..it seems the devs planned for this already and if i read it right then the devs will already have laws made and will take up the position of Octarchs themselves(as it should be).It looks to me what we can do is become politicians and run for the offices of Vigesimi and help them deal with already existant laws.I have a problem with guilds writing laws to be governed by but no problem with members of any guild being part of an already existent government structure. Maybe what we should be doing is finding out what laws are already made..read up on them..and try to fill offices instead of recreating another government.The voting system laid out in annahs original post would still work with this..4 months in office and then we vote again for another Vigesimi.It would be up to the guilds who would run for office...but it would still allow all guilds to be in this system.


See how i see it is that we live in a country already and all the guilds are under the assumption that they can own a kingdom....it doesn\'t seem to be the case,the guilds are more like \"businesses\" than individual \"countries\" and already have laws to follow made by the counties founder...so there isnt a need for a UN type council since we wont be owning countries.We will be more like residents that \"buy houses on Talad street in the county of Hydlla in the country of Yliakim. We will be following the laws of PS.

Guilds now believe they will be buying \"the country of Circle of Legends\" or \"the country of Arcane order\" and need a UN senate to keep conquerors out...doesnt seem the case.The guilds are more like \"the business of Black Order, we sell appliances\" if you get what i mean.

[Dameon]

OK, here is my opinion on this whole thing...

It seems to me that this whole senate idea takes away from the base of any MMORPG. I mean, the idea has good intentions. I do feel, however, it will take away from the freedome within a guild. It reminds me of a HUGE alliance where no one has a say in allying. It almost reminds me of a sub-government and rendering the whole government system that the Devs have set useless.

I think that it is up to a guild to decide weather or not it will tax its members. I think that the guild should have a choice in what it does. I think that a guild, within reason, should be able to do what it wants.

NO, I am not saying that guilds should have free reign over PS, but that is why the origional government was set up... was it not?

This whole senate thing would be a good idea if the joining of the senate was optional, and not forced upon the members of the game. I think that will shun a lot of people away from playing PS if this is implimented.

There could be a way to use this plan yet, however. If some chat code was implimented for an Official alliance, guilds could ally with eachother and form a senate on their own.

For example:  Chat Code = /guildally {name of guild}

both guilds type that in and boom... an alliance is made. This would open up a whole set of new commands under a /ally command

/ally {command} {position} {name}
/ally vote selectmen Dameon

In conclusion, if this whole senate thing was Optional, it would work out, in my opinion, much better

Dameon

[druke]

i think it is optional though, i was never under the influence that it wasn\'t

[druke]

Originally posted by Vengeance
This seems to me to be nothing more than an invented way for a few guilds that exist now to make a structure in which they stay powerful after LOTS of other people/guilds are playing PS...

Careful what you wish for....

hmmm.. i think i shall meditate upon this

[Skizzik]

I have to agree with Sabrewulf on this:
By comparing the Council to the UN, you are comparing the guilds to countries. The guilds however, aren\'t countries, they are like gangs or other social groups within a county (Yliakum). In this country of Yliakum, there is already a settled authority, made by the devs (octarchs). Under these octarchs are the Vigesimi, they are players that keep law and order in Yliakum. With these vigesimi and octarchs to enforce the law, there should be no need for such a council.
However, if the system of octarchs and vigesimi would prove to be inadequate (or chaotic due to many vigesimi; 160 in total), such a council could act as a backup. But if the system that the devs planned is adequate, I see no use for a planeshift council.

Skizzik

p.s. Druke, isn\'t your sig a bit... excessive?

[druke]

I have thought on this and really, there is no real reason to do this, as it has been said, there is already a government that will involve the players. Although I very much love the initiative that the players have taken towards this (not to mention the peace). Perhaps we can all put our heads together as the greater guilds of PS and make PS unique with its community.


P.S. Yea i was to tired to work any more so i just laoded it for the night, like my new one?


edit: got a lil off topic, and lots of typos

[Skizzik]

Yup, that\'s better, thanks.

I agree that the initiative is good.
Another aspect of this Council would be that players and guilds would be restricted in their freedom. Now I don\'t know if you guys read the interview on warcry, but Luca Pancallo really put emphasis on the \'free\' part of PS, where you can play for free, and are free to do whatever you want, you don\'t have to live up to any standards.
/me looks up the interview, scrapes his troat and speaks loudly:

Originally stated by Luca Pancallo
Having the virtual world access free for a player is what we feel is needed to really experience the game without boundaries and constraints.

Such a council would put constraints upon the player and his or her guild. This would go against the principles of Planeshift, now these principles aren\'t necesarilly my principles, but I agree that a player should be able to do (to a certain degree) what (s)he wants. If such a player was to really cross the line, there would be the authorities to deal with him/her.

Originally posted by Annah
They will create laws, make a tax system, organize or take care of other guilds.

If a guild would raise high/low taxes, or not take care of itself properly, nobody would suffer from this, since players choose to be part of this guild. The laws would be taken care of by the octarchs and vigesimi.

[Kiva]

How come it is only so few people who can actually see the flaws in this kind of project? I mean, yes yes it is a good idea, and as Kiern mentioned somewhere on page 2, I was even into starting something like this very long ago... Didn\'t really work out tho...

Anywho, as Annah says, this council thing will create laws, treaties and mayhaps even trade routes... I, for one, would just overlook any law from this council that I find inappropriate for my needs, and I believe many others would too, because for the first, what kind of means would you use in enforcing the laws and rules of this council? Boycotting a guild if they do not wish to do as you do? Well, that would be a solution, but of course, what can you do to enforce that this guild is actually being properly boycotted?

Or treaties - Well, if two guilds decide to kill eachother, I believe it is not up to the other guilds of PlaneShift to stop them, is it? Honestly, I wouldn\'t do jack if the Arcane Order and Explorers Guild decided to go to war. I\'d just go on with my stuff, or if \"everyone\" decided to go on an all-out war on the Black Order, I wouldn\'t care the slightest bit, but of course, that\'s just my personal oppinion. Maybe there are these peaceloving fools out there, who thing that a society full of human beings can really co-operate and that the whole world will eventually be a peaceful place... Dream on people...

Or if you want to make a trade route from one place to another. Would that not be up to the two guilds who owns the places, and the guilds owning the land travelled upon? Sure sure, other guilds could give their oppinions, but would it still not be up to the guilds involved to decide what happens to their lands? I mean, Mr. President of the U.S. still decided to go to war with Iraq even though many others said they did not like the idea. And maybe that\'s just a wicked example, but it\'s the truth...

That\'s just some part of my negative point of view on this subject, but I\'m sure that one of those optimists will come and put me on fire with a flame, you know? Anywho, that is probably what I have to say for now... So... Good luck I suppose. You\'re gonna need it.

[Moogie]

Grono: Good post.

A group of us have been discussing this for a while now and I personally don\'t think it would work.

It would take a few pages of typing to explain why and I don\'t have the energy, but in short, I think that a council is not needed unless the dev\'s official government setup falls through.

This council just seems like a powertrip for a few select guilds... just to give you the power to rule the rest of us. I for one want nobody outside my guild to tell me what I can and cannot do whilst playing this game. Those rules are up to me, my guild leader and the PS dev team. Those are the only rules I will follow- I won\'t allow people I have never even met to restrict my fun.

And I\'m sure many other people will share the same view. I honestly can\'t see something like this working out, because I\'d rather keep it simple and enjoyable- not complicated and a \'pain in the arse\' like real life.

Step back for a minute, take a deep breath and look at just what you\'re proposing here. It won\'t work.

[Zephyrus]

Interesting points, I am losing enthusiasm for the idea to be honest, but I will discuss it with the other Mercenaries...

[Half_Pint]

LOL.  Public opinion sure changes fast.  

First off, the way many of you are seeing this organization is not the way I picture it.  I see this as an excellent way to prevent exploitation of newbies and smaller guilds by those who are larger.  I\'m disappointed that you haven\'t realized yet that Mirth isn\'t interested in a \"power trip\".  We just want to have fun, explore, and help out where we can.  Quite frankly, if the Yliakum government can prevent abuse by larger guilds, I will support it instead.  

My concern is that the Yliakum government will not have power outside of the stalactite.  Supposedly there will be other citites, and I\'m sure each guild will have some members spread across the world.  Unless the Yliakum government has power outside, there will be a need for an inter-guild organization that isn\'t limited by city boundaries.

[Annah]

From what I\'ve seen ... most of you really didn\'t get the idea. I will work and post a more easy to learn version ...
   And who said it will be like a big alliance? In the council can be allies, or even enemies ...
   Like I said, try Master of Orion III and check the Orion Senate ... k?

[Half_Pint]

I\'d just like to say a few things that are included in my vision for this:

1.  Membership wouldnt be mandatory (obviously)
2.  two enemy guilds could still belong at the same time
3.  You wouldn\'t have to do as the council decided unless your guild belonged, if you dont want a council telling you what to do no one\'s forcing you to join.

[Monketh]

Good posts everybody, some of them are very convincing.

If we do decide to get this project underway, we will have to take the time to make sure it turns out right.  I\'m quite sure the \"main\" guilds, that is the powerful ones, have no intention of ruling all of Planeshift.  However, the system must be carefully designed to prevent such a thing from happening.  One such measure would be to maintain the rotation of the upper council seats regularly.  Another would be to give all guilds one vote.  Since \"mega-guilds\" are few, the majority of the council could easily be made up of the more common small ones.  As to the authority of the UG, some form of dues would have to be collected to maintain an army and fund improvements.  Stopping guild-wars is entirely unnesscessary, and would not be done.  The UG would however keep track of wars and alliances for the convience of the public.  All conversations, hearings, debates, whatever they\'re called would have to be public.