Zone Instancing needed for Dungeons

[Rulzern]

Instancing removes immersion and realism.

It would be easier to deal with people camping drops if there was PK in such places. I mean, one of the main aspects of MMORPG\'s (if not the main) is player-player interaction, and mobs being camped is one of the harder issues to solve in a friendly way, so it presents a challenge for the players and motivation to get involved in factions/clans/groups, and socializing beyond your current social circle.

Because it seems bad at the moment you experience it, doesn\'t mean it doesn\'t increase the overall gaming experience.

That a better post Forsythe?

[Xelon]

pshh.. id like to see any of you come up with anything better

[JuiceBox]

If any of you have played ragnarok online, you will know what he is talking about.  I think its a really good idea...because certain things will just get camped and killed within the first minute it spawns.  With ranarok....all the bosses were basically camped 24/7....one or two guilds could camp every boss on both servers.  They would kill it and come back on the hour to get it again.  It was the most annoying thing about the game.  If not using the zone instancing, use random spawning on the map...complete.  Its no good to know exactly where one thing will spawn.  Random places and times are good enough to stop that.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Ice_Phoenix
Hey guys I partially like the idea but I don\'t think we\'ll have it in CB or DB or what ever you call the closest 2 or 3 alpha releases... So let\'s not argue about it?

Right...so we just argue about it when it\'s annoying the hell out of 3/4ths of the players...that\'s useful

[Wedge]

There have been some big threads on this before.  The answer to what works best, is both.  That is both have their place.  Instancing lets you create more advanced stories, puzzles, and events in a quest.  But it\'s not  truly (massive) multi-player.  As a device of convenience alone, it should not be used.  Comparatively, it is also more technically difficult to implement, so it won\'t be in Planeshift in any form regardless very soon.

[Erthel]

I dont play Planeshift so much, as dont work fine in my computer (waiting for MB... hope it will work better...), and my english its not so good... hope you\'ll understand too.

I played some other MMORPG (yeah, starting on UO and passing through EQ and others not that classic...). Instancing the dungeons its not a bad idea, not much realistic, but an small idea for avoid full camped areas. This is ok for games like EQ, where they need the most people playing at time as possible (pople=money there, should i say this?), and a nice idea for an small world thought for 1000 people where realy live 5-7000 (world of EQ). It was impossible there to find an area completely empty, and hard to find a nice spot for exp at mid-high lvls. The other trouble was the KS. First of all, there is the technical solution (if someone hits more than 50%, he got the kill) wich is just at the start but... when you do a looong quest, spawn a creature, and then someone else kills the creature and breaks the quest... or what about those people who loot corpses that are not their, getting the others reward? the main solution was petition to the GMs and wait.

Ok, but this is not EQ. You wont be in a world thought for 1000 people (ok, at the start maybe, but hope it will expand ). You wont have a GM 8 hours each day solving those petitions (probably they will have other preferences). This is pretend to be a Roll-Role Player (wich i understand ) game, so doing exp wont be 80% of time (hope this too ). If you like roleplay, you will find a lot of things to do, if you like to do exp and get loot... will be possible too... if you want to be ubba in 1 month and then raid to the biggest highend creature... there is always EQ .
And about KS, ok, they suck, and instancinb still be a solution. But what happen when someone steals in a MMORPG? usually people start to know his reputation... Maybe he lose the guild, maybe hes not accepted in any other, maybe he creates a new character as noone wants to join him, maybe (and hope this too ) someone puts price on your head... the petition its not the only way, in EQ happened, some people had to change account, or remove al chars... some guilds (yeah, entire guilds too P) had to disband and scatter when they KS a big mob to another guild, as noone wanted to join they, people left, people KS they (no PK in most EQ servers P).

I dont like KS, and i dont like instancing (ill post why in another moment... have to sleep P). The best solution i see is to accept they as a normal kind of player, just as an outlaw. They would be outcast, maybe thy would join together, to Ks each other (??), but its a part of the game, and the world (are not there bandits in our real world?). This is my opinion, based on wich i have readed about the game, wich i know about other games, and maybe some dreams...

Another time, sorry for my bad english

Erthel

[Vengeance]

I\'m against instancing because it defeats the immersion sense in the world and segregates your friends from the community as a whole--taking the MM out of the ORPG acronym.

There are two issues those games are trying to solve that PS is probably not going to try to solve.

a) World is too small and people are too uber.  Having \"all the bosses camped\" is a function of both of those.  Infinite replication of the bosses (instancing) is one solution to that problem, but a sucky one.

b) Games with instancing are trying to cater to more casual gamers, who want to play for shorter periods of time and don\'t have time to spend an hour, or even 15 minutes, looking for a group or waiting for a cave to clear.  I think those people should just play single player games on their PCs or consoles and not worry about paying $13/month for the right to play by themselves on a server.  On the other hand, those companies are genius to allow people to pay them a monthly fee to play by themselves. :-)  We don\'t have to worry about payments or revenue.

Also instancing has its problems.  For one thing there is a LOT of pressure not to quit your group in the middle of an instance assignment.  If you leave, you cannot be replaced in the group.  Typical LDON instance quests in EQ are 4-6 hrs long, and if you have to leave, your group is screwed.  So by trying to cater to the short-time gamer, they have actually made it worse in some ways.

Hopefully this helps, although I doubt it will convince anyone.

- Venge

[John_Thazer]

Bah instancing! I don\'t REALLY think it\'s a good idea at the moment...maybe when the game is biger there will be a point of introducing instancing...

[snow_RAveN]

boss spawning can be countered by makeing the bosses more uber so that no 1 can stand a chance alone aginst a boss and even if they have a \'team\' it\'ll still be Hard* (as in possiable but not really easy)

yeah this idea may suck but it will most likly improve in game role-playing

[Drilixer]

Originally posted by snow_RAveN
boss spawning can be countered by makeing the bosses more uber so that no 1 can stand a chance alone aginst a boss and even if they have a \'team\' it\'ll still be Hard* (as in possiable but not really easy)

yeah this idea may suck but it will most likly improve in game role-playing

bah someone will solo it - just making things harder w/out other changes doesn\'t tend to help

[Icefalcon]

Personally i dont think that this will be a big problem in PS. I think the world will be big enough to support the amount of people playing, and combat isnt the only thing to do in the game. Plenty of people will be working on their other skills...

[Wedge]

Why would everything have to have a static spawn point anyway?  Do all MMO games really always spawn the same monsters in the same spots?  I wouldn\'t know.  That sounds really dumb though.

[roguewolftamer]

now so yall know, im not for or against this instancing dungeon idea, but i think the major dungeons it would be fine in, but if its smalll and nothing special goes on except a few items, some exp, and maybe rarely 1 magical or better item will spawn in the chest or on the mob or whatever, that\'d be fine

but for the major dungeons if its gonna have really good things such as a ton of exp, or a unique weapon that can be sold for alot, and can be gotten again, or whatever, then i say yes those should be instanced, otherwhys it defeats the purpose of controling a certain point in PvP if someone can just run in and they escape a death from other PvP\'s, so i dont know what good would come out of it if it removes one bad thing and 1 good thing either way

and so some ppl out there know, some PvP player like to be able to control things and other also like to take control of those things as well

[Bigfoot]

Being some one thats played MMORPG\'s games utilizeing instanced Zones, all i can say is its the best damned thing since sliced bread. Im surprised its taken as long as this to be implemented in MMORPGs, since The now canned Middle Earth Roleplay mmorpg that Sierra was going to develope had the idea over 5 years ago... although Sierra are now long gone the way of teh dodo.

Those that are against instanceing of zones, have obviousely never played a commercial mmorpg and therefore are justifying there opinions on ideas and screwed logic, such as \"it will ruin community and roleplaying\" rather than baseing there opnion on actualy experiances.

Since those with experiance in camping spawns, waiting in line for weeks for there turn at a raid mob\'s, or loot mobs, waiting at zone lines for camps to open up inside over crowded \"best EXP\" dungeons, or explorers that travel dungeons and get miffed at meeting every man and there dog around every supposedly dangerouse corner, will know that instance zoneing  is the current fresh breath of air for the MMORPG world.

i dont follow the dictum of \"embrace every thing thats new\" but id make a big exception in this case.

being within a city with 1000 people is fun... being inside a dungeon with those same 1000 people is NOT fun period.

As for KS\'s reputation is not a option for control and often most KSing arrises from altercations between groups vieing for a specific mob or area, in a spawning mob type situation  with a large player base near by mobs eventualy dry out, a good example would be the Giant Fort in the Frontier Mountains on Kunark in EQ, or velketors labyrinth on Veliouse, with alot of groups, and few high level soloers the fort or velks would generaly be empty of mobs, KSing and aggression regulary pops up regulary between other wise peacefull groups. Even I myself have KS\'d from other groups to supply my own group or myself with EXP simply because time is preciouse and why waste time on your ass when i could be fighting and leveling. instanced dungeons solve this problem perfectly.

And unless someone comes up with some other magic bullet to solve these problems, instanceing of dungeon zones is the best solution. i doubt there is a more efficient solution.

[roguewolftamer]

as i said, it\'d be alright if it were only major dungeons instead of minor ones, cause major dungeons are the places that are gonna be overcrowded, other then that i think it wouldnt be worth it