Author Topic: seige weapons  (Read 7153 times)

Deddarus

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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2004, 05:47:01 pm »
*imagines how lord of the rings woulda turned out if 1 lil nazgaul (sp?) wiped out gondor with a wave of his hand*

anyways... some points

Seige weapons would require destructable buildings.. however these should be limited to towns involved in town wars (dont wanna see hydlaa smashed to bits.... nor do i wanna see a player log on after being away from a day or so to find his much loved log cabin is now a pile of matchsticks cos some evil git (looks at draklar) decided it would be funny to test his new catapult)

tying in this idea... seige weapons should be constructed in a special building in a town (that is involved in town wars) and would take serveral ppl to move them....they would be very slow + drain the players stamina a lot due to their size

as for mages.... would be too unbalaned to let them solo a building let alone a city.... however they could blow the crapola outta a seige weapon, thus they have an important role in town wars and seige weapons will need an escort to protect them

Keitac2000

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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2004, 07:12:48 pm »
if destructable towns were allowed, again i think it should borrow from shadowbanes system where seiges actually take real life days from begining to end, not minutes

Icefalcon

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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2004, 07:45:56 pm »
I dont see how these \"town wars\" could ever be created... It just wouldn\'t work in this type of game...

Deddarus

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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2004, 07:49:09 pm »
yes i agree... cos if we do have seieges i want to be able to cut off a towns food supply + fling poisned cow corpses over the walls to get rid of any animals they have inside for food... i wanna poison their water supply + cut off their regular shipment of ores so they cant repair their armour.... i wanna stop them from getting any wood so they run out of arrows and cant make seige weapons

basically i want proper seiges not just... hmm if i leave the city im gonna have to run for it a bit

would also like to make it essential for player run towns to stockpile and manage the stockpiles effectively in case of a seige (ie store up some food + dont let citizens take too much)

i also wanna see spies, saboteurs and thieves getting involved

ie..
spy goes into enemy town... reports on their stores of food
saboteur sneaks in and poisons/curses certain foods (some would be easier to do than others)
thief goes in and steals remaining good food

next day.... big scary army appears with seige weps and surrounds city covering all exits, lil stream going into town is poisoned... anyone leaving is killed and their bodies flung back over the wall.... army sits for a couple of days stopping all flow of ppl and goods in and out of town.... spy goes in (claiming to be 1 of the ppl who inevitably tried to escape.. but was caught.. stripped of his clothes, which the spy is now wearing, + killed)... finds out condition of populace... reports that they all have low stamina due to starvation, that their arrows are nearly spent + their shields are battered but they cant repair em cos they dont have the resources...

enter the battering ram...... the doors are obliterated and the opposing army (which has enjoyed the luxury of 5 banquets a day,... brough to them from all friendly towns etc... + has a plethora of smiths working night + day to repair their stuff.. and fletchers making new arrows etc).... and they surge in beating 7 shades of crap out of all the half starved ppl... then turn their seige weps onto the town treasury.... break it down... grab as much gold as they can carry and march off home triumphant :P

*realises that went into a bit of a rant*

hehe i luv seiges

Keitac2000

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« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2004, 11:46:34 pm »
icefalcon, what do you mean it wont work in this game?

Wormtail_

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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2004, 02:30:50 am »
I believe there is a saying around these forums... \"Look before you post...\"

The idea on town sieges has been very extensively discussed here .

A few other threads are on this as well, but the linked thread has the most replies. Of course, some are off-topic and others do not have that much detail, while others have too much detail...

I feel as if someone is a Stronghold fan... \"What a stench!\" *Cow flung over wall*

Now, to make things brief - Who will command the armies, and what will the armies consist of? Why bother engaging in civil war, when enemies can easily take over from outside? Politics and outside forces can easily play a large role in this. Do not get too carried away by \"delusions of grandeur.\"
« Last Edit: February 24, 2004, 02:36:45 am by Wormtail_ »
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Deddarus

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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2004, 04:25:16 am »
cow flung over wall comes from it being an often used tactic in medieveal seige warfare

as fir who would command the armies... this sort of battle would take place in either town war or guild war scenarios.. in which case it would be the mayor (or a commander he appointed) or the guild leader

armies would consist of players... preferably (if the commandr is good) arranged into suitable groups of mages, archers(and other ranged weapons) and close combat types... with each group having a healer or 2 as support... might also be a mounted group..... and a group of ppl manning the seige weapons

support untis would be onsight smiths for repairs, cooks to supply food, fletchers, quarriers (if stone becomes a resource).. maybe some mages charging glyphs

some players would be needed to fill a small number of specialist jobs such as theiving, sabotage, espionage etc


dont quite get yer meaning of the civil war comment... 1 town would be inside, under seige, the other town would be outside laying seige.... the point of it is that in a town war system there would be a treasury to loot, or a threat to reduce, or an economy to ruin.... thus attacking a town would be beneficial to the other town (if successfull)... laying seige (as history tells us) is one of the most effective ways of attacking a heavily defended town (in times of war the mayor could lock the town gates.. or maybe guards could stop enemy town civilians entering.. at least armed)... thus seiges would have a point

as for politics... yes u could launch a lengthy campaign of convincing players to vote u in as the next mayor so that eventually once u r in power u can take all the gold out of the treasury and deposit it into your original town... but surely that is a lot more longwinded and far less fun than seiges

anyways.. when it boils down to it.. its an idea... and in my experience of game design its always best to start off with \"delusions of grandeur.\" as no matter what the starting point of the design it will always loose a lot in the devlopment.. (i back up this comment with 3 years of study into a degree in computer game devlopment and 2 years working for electronic arts)

Xanaroth

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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2004, 05:09:39 pm »
if you want that, you might as well bring in balista\'s those giant wanna-be crossbows that launches enormous spears.

Deddarus

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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2004, 05:25:15 pm »
could do... dont see y not... as long as they are balanced properly

Xanaroth

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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2004, 05:32:27 pm »
hmm... they will be verry strong, easilly penetratable for walls and armor, but because it projectile is very heavy and wont be able to get long range, it will have to get real close, like within 30 meters or so of its target, making it easy to spot and dodge.

Wormtail_

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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2004, 02:40:38 am »
About the civil war comment I made... To clarify, you start in the underground city of Yliakum, which is a large, underground region which you can read much more about on the main website, under the settings page.

Quote
anyways.. when it boils down to it.. its an idea... and in my experience of game design its always best to start off with \"delusions of grandeur.\" as no matter what the starting point of the design it will always loose a lot in the devlopment.. (i back up this comment with 3 years of study into a degree in computer game devlopment and 2 years working for electronic arts)


Well, I suppose \"delusions of granduer\" can be of help, if in the beginning as a vision of what you want a game to be like...

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as for politics... yes u could launch a lengthy campaign of convincing players to vote u in as the next mayor so that eventually once u r in power u can take all the gold out of the treasury and deposit it into your original town... but surely that is a lot more longwinded and far less fun than seiges


There are a few problems with that tactic... The main one being revolt. Nobody will like having the treasury drained for some campagin, unless they are bgin paid for it or gain from it in some way. Not many, at least. It is more longwinded, yes, but sieges, in medieval times, were long, hot, bloody, and very costly. An assault on a castle usually turned out to be a wait as to who\'s food supply would run out first. Disease becomes a \"big\" factor. Rats did too. These are just a few of the points that come up when launching a campaign, and there are surely much more. Such as Weather, Defection, Doctrine, and several more things. And spies could lie.

I am pretty sure there are posts floating around here on guild wars and politics, which I am too lazy to search for now.

Quote
if you want that, you might as well bring in balista\'s those giant wanna-be crossbows that launches enormous spears.

hmm... they will be verry strong, easilly penetratable for walls and armor, but because it projectile is very heavy and wont be able to get long range, it will have to get real close, like within 30 meters or so of its target, making it easy to spot and dodge.


Spears are lighter than stones, and yet catapults, for examples, or trebuchets, laucnch their projectiles from a very long distance. Also, a ballista would have a strong amount of force released, and would thusly be able to launch a spear fromfar away. Also, if a ballista had close range, it would NOT be cost effective. Battering rams would be more effectinve at knocking down walls, and longbows for piercing armor. Plus longbow arrows may or may not be faster than ballisa bolts. Crossbows are effective for piercing armor as well, I think. Magic, too.

Basically, what I am trying to say is the ballista needs a longer range. Otherwise, it would be useless. Send in a group of swift-footed cavalry from behind, and the ballista is dead.
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Draklar

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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2004, 02:56:48 am »
you pierce armour with crossbows, not normal bows.
You\'d rather need to find gap in armour to kill someone with a longbow.
At least I think so.

ehh... this discussion gets a bit detailed :P
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Wormtail_

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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2004, 02:59:49 am »
In the Battle of Agincourt, a few thousand longbowmen defeated several thousand armored knights. The hill was muddy and had stakes in it. Now, even with that, how could a few thosand longbowmen, even if they were English, defeat heavily armored knights if their arrows were useless? They were aided by a couple thousand footmen, but unless French knights were incompetent fools... Well, they were fools... But longbows can still pierce armor. I think.

http://www.archers.org/longbow.htm

Yes, this is getting rather detailed.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2004, 03:00:57 am by Wormtail_ »
You pay the same price for doing something halfway as for doing it completely. So you might as well do it completely.
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Despise the enemy and you will lose.
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Xanaroth

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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2004, 08:10:32 am »
you are forgetting that they to get from behind, they would have to first pay a visit to the catapults and trebuchets, then to their defenders, then face the archers arrows and the ballistas and when they survive all that they still need to fight the defenders from the ballista. it aint that easy to get from behind...

Xanaroth

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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2004, 08:12:22 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
you pierce armour with crossbows, not normal bows.
You\'d rather need to find gap in armour to kill someone with a longbow.
At least I think so.

ehh... this discussion gets a bit detailed :P



I think the same, crossbows can pierce armor as well as longbows, but crossbows are more for the metal-kind armors, and longbows more for the leather-kind armors... you know what i mean.