PlaneShift

I can’t test this, but Dajoji said he tested with his GM and his player characters, I believe him. if this is not good enough Ary you could get another GM to test I guess… though if so I suspect it would be best tested with a player that knows the spell to make sure that this is not just a GM thing.

I can verify this. When I cast the Natural Intuition spell on any character or monsters I get the description windows and see all stats, skills and factions of the target.

I have not the time to check right now history.txt
Somebody can address me quickly to who did the changes in details window?=

Aww, it’s not meant to be that way? Too bad, I liked it and assumed that this was the reason for the spell to be realm 3 now, instead of realm 2. However, I can verify aswell.

likewise, thought it was one of the better feature changes this version :)

@ Arianna: i believe that ragnar did this change along with xordan

Thanks. Assigning to them (Ragnar and Xordan), then.

I can verify this too; also we cannot see buffs for stats (we could in 019), but we can for skills. For example, we see the following:

* “Crystal Way 30 (31)” for Crystal Way Ring
* “Agility 200, Endurance 200” for Ring of the Past (was expecting “Agility 200 (210), Endurance 200 (210)” like in 019 Nature Intuition).

I never had used this spell before the upgrade. So what is Nature Intuition supposed to show, if not the stats and skills?

I have no idea. I got the tip from Caarrie that you did some change in this with Xordan.
Caarrie, can you pinpoint at history.txt?

before the change to the detail window, gms and players could only see the stats and nothing else. So i think before a change here is made maybe xordan or talad should be asked what should be visable to players.

removing assignees, might be a good prospect task.

NOTE: contact settings/rules to determine what should be shown and have it _not_ affect the gms ability to view all stats/skills in the description. This might also require changes to the spell script

Escalate to High please.

This seriously needs fixed. It appears the spell just calls the GM window, and when the GM window was made to work like it should to show GM’s everything, the players got it all too. All that information is far far too much information for anyone without sec level to have access to. The spell should only give general text about the target based on stat ranges:

Str > 150 “This person seems very strong” Int > 150 “This person seems very bright” …etc….you get the idea.

No numbers should be given, no buffs, and nothing other than just stats (no skills/jobs/factions/magic/combat/various)

Note: until this can be fixed properly, please disable the spell entirely - it is a huge exposure of information player shouldn’t have nor should keep having access to until a fix is done.

Bovek it has been like this since the fix was put ingame for the gms, i dont see how this is more urgent now then it was when this bug was reported.

honestly I feel this was underrated from the beginning…not that BT is for discussion. Find me in IRC if you like :)

It would be nice if the spell became more precise at higher skill levels.

E.g. at AW 50, the output might look like this:
Str: between 100 and 150
Agi: between 50 and 100
(etc.)
while at AW 100, it might be:
Str: between 140 and 160
Agi: between 80 and 100
(etc.)

The PS team could determine what precision is desired at what level of AW, and cast that into a formula.
The GM version of the spell would simply assume a ridiculously high AW to get precise results.

There is no GM version of the spell. The window that got “reused” for the player spell was initially a very limited stat window that GM’s have a command to call up (not a spell). Later, that window for GM’s got much expanded, and as a result, players got all the same complete detail, which I can’t believe was ever intended. That window may get further expanded to serve GM purposes, and may include details that no player should ever see about another, like IP address, characters on the account, account info, how much training they need to to buy and practice, PP’s, money, etc.

Again I say, remove this spell until a new and proper GUI is made, one with text-based generalizations based on stat ranges only, and nothing about skills at all, and no numeric values (they’d be very much OOC).

Well, then the GM version of the spell is a command :)
I agree that in the long run, spell and command might have to be split up.

Removing the spell would fix the abuse mentioned, but I think this also costs:
* Tournament organisation would become more difficult. The people who organize tournaments like to distinguish between “amateur” and “pro” classes, based on skill levels.
* Some guilds base advancement on skill levels and would get into trouble without that spell.
* The possibility of being scanned discourages those forms of abuse where people gain impossible stats or skills.

Finally, while I find the effect of Nature Intuition overly precise, I don’t see that its abuse is a serious problem.
In fact since the spell target often knows what’s happening, I have seen this start some RP-ish exchanges (this could be encouraged further by making the spell send “<Caster> is looking into your soul” to the target’s System tab, Grizzlyus and me have been using this message to good effect in Main).

Bovek what about moving the gm info [everything but the stats] to a new window and leaving the desc window as it was in the past? this would include in the next release the CC info for gms.

See  FS#2660  on what Nature Intuition should give to a player.
The task here deals with splitting the player spell from the GM command.
(It may be a good idea to implement some of  FS#2660  at the same time as resolving this here though, to avoid making players unhappy.)

* The possibility of being scanned discourages those forms of abuse where people gain impossible stats or skills.

But annoys also devs / prospects / gms working on the game who get reported

* The possibility of being scanned discourages those forms of abuse where people gain impossible stats or skills.

Rephrase:
* The possibility of being banned discourages those forms of abuse where people gain impossible stats or skills.

Server is supposed to prevent such things.

I’ve been discussing about a possible solution for this and this is what got up for now:
1) nature intuition should send a message to who gets scanned just like suggested in PS#2660 but only if the azure way of the target is of a certain level and depending on it also the message would be more or less precise: 0-50 no message, 50-100 someone nearby is scanning you, 100-150 x is scanning you, 150-200 x is scanning you ⇒ ask to scan back
2) till level 100 in azure way it would only show the stats, from 100 it would show also the skills, from 150 the char creation data and finally from 200 and above it would show also factions
3) also the stats, skill and maybe also factions should get more precise the higher is the level in azure way. it could reduce the range of indecision of 10 each 10 levels or each realm (so 20 levels)
this would be an example which could be rescalated: 50-60 90 range, 60-70, 80 range, 70-80, 70 range, 80-90, 60 range, 90-100, 50 range etc
(so similar to what elvors suggested)

Addition: limit spell to touch range. This is becoming something of a mind-meld experience with factions, as factions are others’ reactions to the target, so you’d see how merchants and rats would react to the target without actually probing the rats or merchants. I think factions is too far reaching. Also faction values can be interpreted to get a sense of what quests the target has done, or at least what kinds of quests. If they have a very negative faction for Tefu’s does that mean the target is a warrior/hunter or that he’s a crafter that had to go PP hunting to support his training?

Re Bovek:

* The possibility of being scanned discourages those forms of abuse
> where people gain impossible stats or skills.
> Rephrase:
> * The possibility of being banned discourages those forms of abuse
> where people gain impossible stats or skills.
>
> Server is supposed to prevent such things.

The keyword being supposed to.
The possibility of getting scanned will deter some people from even probing for exploits in that direction.
(Maybe it’s too irrelevant anyway. Run a “select count(*) from player_table where strength > 200 and not reasons-why-it-may-be-correct-anyway” to be sure.)

If they have a very negative faction for Tefu’s does that mean the target
> is a warrior/hunter or that he’s a crafter that had to go PP hunting to
> support his training?

That’s a problem, but unrelated to Nature Intuition: Faction points don’t account for killing outside of quests.
I suggest making that a separate bug report.

I agree that faction points are different from the other stats, since they involve entities beyond the character itself.

On the other hand, I don’t think it’s necessarily a “mind-meld” thing. Sure, faction points reflect your standing with them, but you get these points by interacting with the factions, and that does form a character. I.e. NI does not see how merchants, tefusang or Xiosia think about the character, but it could see what the character thinks their stance is about him.

Assigned to weltall by Xillix.

At this point, I would like to emphasize the usefulness of this spell while hunting.
I perfectly agree to make it less explicit when applied to player characters without
their confirmation, but when scanning the lesser minds of the beasts of the wild,
information on the physical attributes and combat powers is helpful and justified.

In the spirit of protecting the players from undesired actions, I guess that a
simple yes/no widget like for accepting challenges would be a simple and suitable
solution. Fuzzy scanning results don’t help much, as people might want to use this
as a tool to ensure fair conditions for certain player events. Also, this should be
traded off with the evaluation of a characters strength when inspecting him, her
or kra. Some of my thoughts about this are found here

Weltall, or anyone fixing this, please also look at  bug 2660 , which I closed as duplicate of this one, but which has some nice ideas about how it should look like after fixing it to not just use the gm command :)

Wow, didn’t even know this bug has such a history. The current situation is not satisfactory (the spell produces message). It makes sense to enable some information for this spell, or to remove it from the game altogether. Half cooked situation looks bad.

In the next update the spell will be functional, for now only NPCs stats will be shown with a certain degree of error, for players (and to avoid abuses) only diease debuffs (like, raging fever, Nausea, …) will be revealed. In future more informations maybe revealed after testing and feedbacks.