PlaneShift

Task TypeIDPrivateCategorySeverityStatusOpened byAssigned ToSummaryLast Edited[[changedby]]
Feature Request5230NoEngineMediumUnconfirmednobody specialchange to default action upon mob attack or player cast...19.05.201131 Task Description

I would like it if you could set the default reaction to casting a spell or being attacked. I find it quite annoying to automatically be set to fully defensive when I cast a spell. I also find it annoying that when being attacked by a group of mobs your target focus jumps to whichever one hit you last.

When I cast electrotouch I want to hit my opponent and not change my stance. generally whenever I cast anything in melee I want to keep my previous stance.
When I am in a pile I want to kill what I am fighting before I start on another one. If I want to fight a different one I can so choose manually. It is also annoying that you often jump to a different mob before you are able to loot what you have just killed.

It would be great if there was a section to set these in the options.

In the case of electrotouch I tried to add /attack normal to my shortcut but it was processed and discarded before the spell finished casting. I appreciate you probably don’t want long chains of commands to be processed in turn as it could lead to botting, otherwise I would ask for one command to finish processing before the next is considered. Still it would be nice to repair all my armor with one keypress instead of 5.

Feature Request5221NoEngineMediumAssignedVikenVenalanMaking Metal Stock in Ojaveda18.09.20141 Task Description

I just did this quest, and it turned out to basically be “Give Trasok 100 tria so he can explain what you should already know if you have the book.” It has no reward other than a few Crafting Association points, which is pretty much worthless. Could you guys either remove this quest or make it give some real rewards? Thanks…

Feature Request5216NoNPCMediumUnconfirmedmickraVisual indication of available quests20.05.20112 Task Description

When a player character is within the interaction range of an NPC, a mark (label) of some sort should appear above that NPC if they are offering some new or repeatable quests (! not some information for those already running !) for that particular character at that particular moment.

Should be optional as a turn-off or turn-on, depending on the default chosen by designers. In any case, and as with any other label, players should retain the option of not seeing it, if it spoils their fun or ruins their immersion somehow.

The reason for this request: drastically increased amount of questing chains ingame, and the absolutely unhealthy and immersion-breaking amount of mouse-clicking on the same NPCs the game now requires.

Noticing a sign above someone's head is OOC, of course, but clicking a mouse button on someone's model, or getting an aggressive red "…has no quest information for you" line floating in mid-air is equally OOC'ish.
On the other hand, seeing no mark above someone's head would cause neither irritation nor disappointment (while futile mouse-targeting and mouse-clicking, when done repeatedly, invariably produces both of those negative effects).
The marks would also provoke reasonable curiousity about available quests, hopefully enticing new players into doing more of them.

I know this request is somewhat of a long shot, but assuming that the engine is going to be considerably revisited this summer, I decided to submit it anyway.

[Edited for clarity, and also to separate it more from PS#4798. That older one would 'make the game easier' indeed, while what I suggest would only eliminate excessive mouse actions.]

Bug Report5213NoCharacter CreationMediumNewRalph Campbelldon't hardcode race to set gender in pawscharcreatemain...16.05.20112 Task Description

Index: src/client/gui/pawscharcreatemain.cpp

— src/client/gui/pawscharcreatemain.cpp (revision 7252)
+++ src/client/gui/pawscharcreatemain.cpp (working copy)
@@ -1012,10 +1012,9 @@

   view->Show();
   view->EnableMouseControl(true);


- //temporary hardcoding needs removal
- maleButton→SetEnabled(id != 9);
- femaleButton→SetEnabled(id != 9);
- if(id==9)
+ maleButton→SetEnabled(currentGender != PSCHARACTER_GENDER_NONE);
+ femaleButton→SetEnabled(currentGender != PSCHARACTER_GENDER_NONE);
+ if (currentGender == PSCHARACTER_GENDER_NONE)

   {
       maleButton->SetState(false);
       femaleButton->SetState(false);
Bug Report5204NoBugtrackerMediumUnconfirmedShinobu MaeharaWhen receiving a bugtracker account, a non-existing ver...02.12.20211 Task Description

When I received the account confirmation message in my inbox, and then clicked on the link, it asked for a verification code.
But there was no textbox to enter the code, and it wasn’t in the message sent. Fortunately the login turned out to work just the same - all mention of verification codes should be scrapped.

Feature Request5191NoModels and MapsMediumNewVikenMore sewers would be nice...21.05.20113 Task Description

I really like the sewers in Hydlaa, and I think it’d be cool if the other cities (Ojaveda and Amdeneir, mainly) had something like that. I also think it’d be cool if the Hydlaa sewers had a couple more openings, and maybe some intentional service entrances instead of just cave-ins with ladders… And maybe an entrance/exit in the East? Then my Rogue-like character could travel by sewers more, which would be totally awesome.

Are you guys planning to add some more sewers eventually?

Bug Report5173NoQuestsVery LowPostponedResildrendrJackMaster in the Circle Way quests22.12.20133 Task Description

Upon completion of the without a way quests ( In my case Crystal Way ) govell sends me to Levrus log:

[NPC] Govell Mihdren says: This will prove the mastery you gained in the Crystal Way.
(06:14:52) [NPC] Govell Mihdren says: Make a good use of it, Resildren.
(06:14:55) [NPC] Govell Mihdren says: And take this.
(06:14:58) [NPC] Govell Mihdren hands you an amulet.
(06:15:00) [NPC] Govell Mihdren says: Bring it to Levrus, one final lesson awaits you there.

but Levrus will not accept it, to make sure I completed my leveling (200) and returned, and he will still not accept it?

I’ve talked to other masters of the other ways and this seems to be a global problem, is this just not implemented yet, or is it a bug?

Feature Request5168NoUser InterfaceLowNewMrokiiOption for different label-colour for buddies20.04.201111 Task Description

It would be useful if the Option-Window also had an option to change the label-colour for people on ones' buddylist. This would especially be useful when there are a lot of players around, but it would make it easier to spot buddies in general as well.

Bug Report5099NoModels and MapsVery LowNewMario RohkrämerTaladguildlaw: Paragraph symbols are mirrored19.03.20111 Task Description

The paragraphs ‘§’ on the walls of the guild house map “guildlaw” are mirrored. For years already (just always forgot to report it).

Bug Report4937NoCombatMediumNewDanielMovement for Ranged not showing when firing long distan...04.04.20164 Task Description

When the monster is somewhat near you, the movement simulating firing an arrow with the bow is showing. However if the monster is quite far away the movement stops showing until either one of you gets closer to the other.

Bug Report4931NoInventory/ItemsMediumNewJorickClicking 'use' on brado's grills interrupts grilling m...23.07.201271 Task Description

When I try to select a grill in Brado’s tavern the pink rotating cross does not appear.
Right click works and brings up the action icons. However, putting meat in one of the slots and “use” the grill to grill the meat results in “You interrupted your work when you moved away” every time. Other items like preparation tables, pots, etc. work fine.

I’m running PS on:
Arch linux ( up to date system ) 86×64 intel core i5
mobility radeon HD5xxx series with up to date catalyst drivers.

I logged my console output but I can’t see anything relevant to the problem, could be me so here’s the link:
pastie

Feature Request4882NoPetsLowUnconfirmedFiribanride other people's mounts08.11.20223 Task Description

Hi,
it would be nice if you could lend/rent your mount to other people. This could be made with a dialog box that appears when someone wants to /mount the pet (”Foo wants do ride your pet NameofThePet, allow?”), similar to challenges/trades. If this is implemented there should of cause be auto-accept/deny.

Bug Report4854NoMap TexturesLowNewaurelyntSky texture not correctly mapped to skydomes18.12.20101 Task Description

The skybox texture doesn’t seem to be correctly scaled to the skyboxes. Its borders are cropped and this results in very sharp and somewhat odd skylines:

i422.photobucket.comalbumspp301aurelyntshot19.jpg

PS 0.5.5

Bug Report4831NoQuests DynamicsLowUnconfirmedaurelyntWrong message when paying a NPC using a dialog box whil...27.11.2010 Task Description

In a quest paying a NPC through a dialog box while having no money results in the following message: "<npc> does not need that".
That seems wrong.

Bug Report4809NoEngineMediumUnconfirmedmike loevencannot defend yourself if another player engages the mo...01.01.20131 Task Description

i ran into a bug that nearly got me killed today. i was fighting gobbles and i ran low on health and had to run away. as i was running another player cast flame burst on the gobble chasing me.

the gobble chasing me did not stop chasing me but i was no longer able to attack it because it said i must be grouped with X mean while the gobble was still damaging me.

this can be fixed one of 2 ways. the targeted player always has kill rights on the monster or the monster changes it’s target when a new playr engages it.

but as it stands it is rather scary when your being attacked and cannot defend yourself due to a bug in the kill stealing prevention system.

Feature Request4800NoItems CharacteristicsLowNewmike loevenhave jayose and londris sell copies of library books an...24.10.201033 Task Description

there are two libraries in the game one run by jayose in hydlaa and the other a smaller collection of books run by londris in the death realm.

one of the main complaints about planeshift is the lack of information about the game. both of these libraries contain information for ic use but at the same time the books are locked into their shelves and cannot even be coppied unless a player spends the time to manually enter everything into a text file and upload it to a blank book.

my idea is to share the information by adding buy and sell catagories to jayose and londris that match the bookshelves in the library and contain copies of the books stored in each. basically have them sell copies of the library books that you can take with you and share with your friends or even put in a guild hall for easier access.

in all it makes perfect sense that a man who sells blank books would have the resources to copy and sell the important guides and informational books stored in the library

Feature Request4799NoInventory/ItemsMediumNewmike loevenadd storage access inside guild halls01.01.201311 Task Description

seeing that furnature is one of the heavest item types in the game, redecorating guild halls can become tedious and god forbid things get cluttered it is not possible to eaisly move them to storage. my request is that typing /storage will work inside a guild hall as if you were targeting a storage npc. just for convienance sake.

Feature Request4797NoEngineMediumNewmike loevena play dead command or /playdead21.05.201164 Task Description

just a idea for a simple rp command. entering /playdead will play the death animation and leave your character imobile similar to the sit command but you will be lying down instead. this can be usefull in roleplay where you are injured but not actually dead or if you want to role play your character going to sleep. entering /stand will cancel both /sit and /playdead. in later versions of the game perhaps this can be also be used to fool the less intelligant monsters like ulbernauts rats and some of the bugs into giving up the chase and loosing interest. i think it would be benificial to have a way to roleplay being wounded or dead without having to actually go to the death realm. say for example your character was killed in a roleplay setting you could use playdead to have a open casket funeral complete with a body that will not dissapear after a minute or two.

i am not sure how easy this would be to acomplish but i suspect you could duplicate the existing sit command and just change the animation called

Feature Request4789NoUser InterfaceMediumNewFrederik Elwertaction locations have no labels and are not selectable16.10.20103 Task Description

The grill in Reffitia's kitchen in Brado's tavern doesn't behave like other items in the kitchen: The preparation table, for example, is selectable and has a label. The grill is not selectable, and it has no label. One can interact with the grill (e.g., store something in it) just as with the preparation table by right-clicking it. But the grill is much harder to identify, since it has no label.

Bug Report4771NoQuestsVery LowAssignedLuzinodrJackInconsistent use of you/ye in Lorytia's Clan quest09.07.20112 Task Description

In the quest Lorytia Starhammer and the Clan reunion Lorytia mostly uses "ye" instead of "you". But the use is not consistent throughout the quest. You'd think that if she regularly says "ye" she'd not switch to "you" for a sentence or two in between, sometimes even switching back and forth within one sentence.

f.e.:
"That is very kind; I thank you. Here is the note: just tell him I sent you."

"Oh, I am sorry, you are still here… do you want to hear what happened?"

"I know ye worked very hard on your piece for the competition and you should have won. I take full responsibility for shortchanging you on the scores."

"He may have some means to get them prepared for you, but ye might make your journey faster if you have them on hand."


There might be more later in the quest, but I'm not done yet.

Bug Report4735NoSettingMediumNewweltallnpc with -01.10.20102 Task Description

The engine code was clearly coded to not allow - so till a different decision is taken these npc are all bugged and should have the - stripped

Brintec Dev-Onni
Vladovic Chel-Astra
Sharven Xant-Areth
Uri Djho-Maat

thanks to Vakachehk for the list

Feature Request4727NoNPCMediumNewRlyDontKnowRentable mounts12.09.20103 Task Description

FR by Vakachehk:

I have an idea for mounts which will need some changes to some maps.
For Rivnaks (maybe Drifters too) having stables in which without a ring you may summon them, and dismiss them, without any skill of any ring needed, maybe a tria fee of like 50trias every summon/dismiss (of course there's the obvious issue you un-mount and leave your Rivnak somewhere, either the game automatically dismisses it or it is able to be stolen via a player, or a mechanical guard comes and takes it back to the stable or whatever). Using your Ring of Summon Familiar you can use the skill Empathy to dismiss/summon/etc, anywhere at any time.
Also I was thinking about the skill 'Riding' maybe this could be trainable and used in combat while on your rivnak?

Feature Request4712NoItems CharacteristicsMediumNewliluraTaladBookshelves like in the Library for Guild houses05.09.201065 Task Description

It would be cool if players could buy bookshelves like the ones in the library. Rather than the player trying to set all the book items on the bookshelf that can be bought in Winch right now and making it look as if the books are on the shelf in the proper way the same dwarf could sell the shelves that look like the ones in the library. It would hold books like a container.

Bug Report4693NoPetsMediumNewAljuvialleAnders ReggestadYou can rest fast after remounting your pet09.02.201331 Task Description

How to reproduce:
do something which require much physical stamina: move many stuff in your bag, do something at anvil or something another.
and then run following commands:
/sit
/unmount
/target <PET NAME>
/mount ←– here your physical stamina will be full!!!
/stand

Bug Report4692NoPetsMediumNewAljuvialleAnders Reggestadcan't move after unmount pet09.04.20132 Task Description

after you'd exhausted to move while riding, and you've unmounted and dismissed your pet, you can't move until client restart.

How to reproduce:
1. mount your pet
2. ride on it while you exhausted to move
3. run shortcut:

/unmount
/pet ID, dismiss

4. you see your physical stamina is full and you can't sit or move anywhere.

PS: if you is not exhausted to move, this bug not occurs.

Bug Report4608NoCharacter TexturesLowAssignedMario RohkrämerTaladHiding in Shadows does not affect all body parts equall...10.08.20103 Task Description

There are models where body parts don’t get translucent while sneaking.

One example: Klyros wings.

(Wait for more to be collected…)

Bug Report4603NoCharacters AnimationLowNewSenOdd enkif sneak animation09.02.20136 Task Description

The sneak animation of Fenkis is broken since.. I think years now. After trying out the new cool transparent-feature while sneaking looked it to me like the Menki one is broken, too? (fixed)
Anyway, already the broken Fenki animation looks a bit annoying :P (It looks like side-stepping while walking)

Sen

Bug Report4601NoMagic SystemMediumUnconfirmedDurgrem AnkhlamirVarious spells doesn't work after the update 17th july ...28.05.202092 Task Description

There are reports of spells that don’t have any effect anymore (neither on you or on enemies)

Known are
- meteor
- missile shower
- dazling light
- flame burst

Bug Report4588NoUser InterfaceLowNewTereayMisrepresentation of the character in the Inventory27.07.201022 Task Description

Misrepresentation of the character in the Inventory
All my dwarves (dark haired) are affected
I use a self-compiled client (0.5.4/0.5.5)
The same on Windows (0.5.4)

Bug Report4574NoEngineLowNewKaerli StronwylleCtrl or Shift modified keystrokes/mouse gestures trigge...11.11.201321 Task Description

1) Ctrl-drag an item or use a shortcut bound to Ctrl-something
2) Note that your run toggle state just changed. :P

Using Ctrl or Shift as a modifier should “lock out” the functions bound to these keys by themselves.

Feature Request4519NoUser InterfaceVery LowUnconfirmedKaerli StronwylleCannot have multiple windows of one type open at the sa...08.06.20101 Task Description

This is most limiting when trying to juggle multiple containers (such as the furnace and the stock casting) at once.

Feature Request4513NoUser InterfaceMediumNewMario RohkrämerCombat ratings in /targetinfo should mention a defense ...07.06.20101 Task Description

It is only partially helpful to estimate if an opponent is more or less stronger than my own char, as long as I don't estimate its defensive qualities too. I would like to see a pair of chances to get hurt by it, and chances to be able to hurt it. Especially since some oppoments are so well armored that even "Extraordinary" quality crafted weapons won't do any damage as long as the character has only average weapon skills. And it is quite vital to estimate the chance of breaking the armor before starting a fight. Even if the opponent is "about as strong as" the character, it is not just risky but suicidal if the opponent is the only one which has any chance to hurt.

Feature Request4511NoInventory/ItemsLowNewNivmCreate option to relinquish loot rights.23.06.201041 Task Description

Make an option that allows a player to make the loot of a corpse public if they do not want it. May not apply to some corpses, and could be used to make other corpses auto-public.

Bug Report4505NoEngineMediumNewCXDamianbuddy command - toggle behavior12.06.20101 Task Description

friends list does not display all friends after using command line without add/remove(onoff), may remove other entries.

starting with no friends:

‘/buddy abcdef’ = ‘abcdef is already on your buddy list’ (refresh friends window, abcdef was added)

‘/buddy abcdefgh’ = ‘abcdefgh is not on your buddy list’ (refresh friends window, abcdef is no longer listed, abcdefgh is not listed)

‘/buddy abcdef add’ = sometimes added, sometimes not

Bug Report4484NoEngineMediumCould not VerifyJonUnable to pick up quest item when inventory full.17.12.20204 Task Description

I was trying to do the Jolik’s Letter quest. My inventory was full when he handed me the letter, and I dropped. By the time I dropped something from my inventory, the letter was gone. Now I am stuck on this quest.

May be related to  bug 3712 .

Feature Request4465NoCharacter CreationMediumNewMinksShow naming policy in char creation.20.08.201053 Task Description

An newbie in the tutorial brought up this idea, and I like it a lot:
It would be nice if the char creation provided a clickable link or a pop-up window to the naming policy.

Feature Request4463NoMagic SystemLowNewMario RohkrämerAdding a "natural resource detection" spell27.02.201152 Task Description

You already mentioned that the former “Dweomer detection”, which only vaguely returns a possible enchantment of a weapon, is rather useless as there are also buffs which are not at all obvious regarding stats and skills.

Not to waste the spell in general, I wonder if it was possible to implement instead that a similar one could be used to detect the presence of natural resources. Depending on some experience level, possibly in combination with another glyph (e.g. Earth, Animal, Tree), it could enable the caster to only vaguely detect presence of areas in a more or less close range where mining, fishing, harvesting, etc. (generic type) might be possible (”You feel that harvesting could be possible here.”), up to a more detailed feeling that specific resources are probably in some vague but graduated distance (”You feel that fishing for carp could be possible just next to you.”).

Of course, any new spell could be created as well.

Feature Request4448NoEngineMediumUnconfirmedStefanRandom Spawn zones: NPC often spawn in mid air02.03.20113 Task Description

NPC in random spawn zones often spawn in mid air.
It would be nice if they could be hidden until they hit the ground.
Don’t send the NPC pos info to the client until it has stopped falling down?

Feature Request4398NoSoundHighNewMathiasSet all volume but npc speech to 20% when npc is talkin...19.04.201011 Task Description

When an npc talks the volume of the music ect makes it hard to hear them. Lets try setting all volume to 20% or so and see how that effects it.

Bug Report4369NoSoundMediumAssignedMathiasSound Bugs Effects/Spells/Etc14.08.20101 Task Description

List of all bugs regarding sound to be fixed for next release.

Feature Request4318NoCrafting TransformationsMediumPostponedOliver NothersImplement Brass29.03.201435 Task Description

Since there is bronze (and more and more people work with it), and there is also zinc besides the tin to possibly combine with the copper - make brass available.
What other use was there for zinc anyway?
The actual mix should be similar to bronze, with zinc in place of tin to go along the copper.

Would also be great if there were finally possibilities to craft something out of those alloys…

Feature Request4256NoQuestsMediumAssignedmickraJayRuaanAlison ColemankatuRon WhitbySemutaradrJackTilavi is in trouble, option request05.08.20101 Task Description

The quest objective is to help a certain NPC find a missing object, that's what my char agreed to do. After finding the object and proceeding to final steps I suddenly receive a ready-made line "X listens to your story" and find my char spilling its friend and ally's whereabouts to X, with me having absolutely no means to prevent or stop it. Honest, it feels like being godmodded by the quest system and is awfully disappointing, to say the least. It also clashes with the general idea of quests being done ICly.

Dear Devs, please add a "not squealing" option, something like "I've just found it somewhere" and let the player deal with one of the main ingame alignments (Law) according to that player's RP. The way it is done now, it's not C&C, it's M&C, having to bear with consequences of the game mechanics, and somehow it doesn't feel right… at all.

PS Ver: 0.5.3

(Edited for clarity.)

Feature Request4237NoGUIMediumNewSeytraAbility to add custom tabs to chat window23.03.2010141 Task Description

In order for the custom channels to be useful, they need a convenient interface. The need for typing /x before stuff isn’t terribly annoying, but also not terribly convenient. However, the biggest issue is that with multiple such channels, all talk gets mangled into one. The designation for the originating channel doesn’t help much in that case.

Therefore it would be nice to be able to create and assign custom tabs to channels, which would then function just like any of the built-in tabs. It would be even nicer if that arrangement could be stored, which would go very well with the auto-joining of custom channels proposed elsewhere.

Bug Report4236NoGuilds/GroupsMediumNewRlyDontKnowdr updates sent for group members without actors14.02.201411 Task Description

the server send DR updates to all group members even if the actor causing it is not in range and therefore the target client doesn’t have an actor associated with it.
this results in a “Stat request failed because CelClient not ready for EID:xxxxx” for each movement of the group member that is out of range.

Bug Report4221NoToolsHighAssignedRlyDontKnowTaladAngelamissing Terms of Service05.08.20103 Task Description

there aren’t any terms of service on the website and consistently the user doesn’t have to agree to them at any point.

this is a big issue in my opinion as the user isn’t strictly bound to such terms and therefore cannot be accordingly punished in case he’s causing really bad issues.

Bug Report4191NoQuests DynamicsHighNewRlyDontKnownpc synonym musn't occur in a trigger12.08.2010 Task Description

if an npc synonym occurs in a quest trigger, it'll break that trigger because incoming messages will be replaced by the more_general value while the trigger still expects synonym.
therefore the quest parser should refuse such quests as they're obviously broken or at least throw a warning about such occurrences.

Feature Request4110NoEngineMediumNewOrgonwukhMining while sitting on a mount should not be possible09.12.2022112 Task Description

It is possible to mine while sitting on a mount. I propose to remove this ability because it seems unrealistic to me.

Feature Request3981NoInventory/ItemsLowNewElvors AmenorasDisallow adding to forge/furnace if impossible14.02.201011 Task Description

Dropping an item in the forge or furnace while hammering something results in a message similar to “You can’t train your skill while working”, with the item sitting in the container but never heating up.

Instead, the item should refuse to drop in the forge/furnace (similar to the situation when capacity, weight, or slots are exhausted).
Alternatively, the item could drop normally and start heating up.

I have two reasons for requesting this:

  1. It runs counter to immersion. Stuff sitting in a hot place heats up in real life, it should do so in Ylliakum as well.
  2. It is a griefing opportunity. Start hammering something, fill up the forge with stuff, and watch crafters despair. Since the stuff does not heat up, you can even continue crafting - you can take stuff from a slot normally and immediately replace it, the 300 ms lag will make sure that you can fill the slot before the other crafters even see that you freed the slot.

Feel free to change to Feature Request, I cannot know whether the current behaviour conforms to developer expectations or not.

Feature Request3956NoCharacter CreationMediumNewAndreas RenbergAllowing apostrophies or dashes in names03.10.202243 Task Description

Not sure if this is possible, but seeing as how the names are treated more as actual names and less as usernames, I believe there should be some support for apostrophes or dashes in names.

For instance (some common fictional apostrophized names)
Teal’c
T’Pol
Kal-El
Jor-El

Perhaps if the apostrophized version of names are only for “display purposes”, so if you see someone named T’Lara, their name is stored as a “key” in the database as tlara, and people can access their name (for instance with /tell) using Tlara, but for display purposes, their name shows up as T’Lara.

Not important, just a thought…

Feature Request3835NoGUIMediumNewbonifarzValue of goods in trade window03.10.20226 Task Description

I would like to suggest an additional widget in the trade window that gives the total (NPC-trade) value of the goods offered, similar to the one for total tria offered. With the quality based pricing system, this could help to lower confusion and make trade and economy flourish. The obvious but neglectable downside is that players could abuse this to identify an enchanted items value without finding an NPC merchant. A solution to that problem could be found when thinking about a feature to identify such items (based on intelligence, dweomer detection, factions with merchants or whatever).

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