Lets make PlaneShift Unreal

[jirore]

What can or can not connect to the server is not an issue, you can run the server on your nuclear submarine, and that is what counts. And no PS as a whole is not free the ABC is far from free, and what makes PS a real enjoyable game is the content under ABC. You are not allowed to sell the stuff under ABC, but if you made up new stuff to replace it whit gpl stuff or whatever, you can charge for it. (on selling free/libre code)

[Rigwyn]

I'm curious about why the restrictions in Epic's license matter to those who object - specifically why, that is. If it's because you want to clone the game and sell it for a profit, then I think they have every right to protect their investment. They are sharing it with conditions. Just because its not technically freeware as Stallman might define it, it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

If you are concerned that reading the source code might make you vulnerable to being sued in the event that you made a similar game and then Epic came after you with a claim that you used their copyrighted code without compensating them, then yeah, that might be good reason to not work on the project at all. If you are just playing the game, then what does it matter to you? Is the objection more about issues with reuse or with not being able to review the code and compile from source?

[jirore]

Reuse is just one part of the EULA wich makes it nonfree I don't object to it any more than to any other part of it. For me it is personal  preference, I would like as much of the software I use to be free as possible. If in the future UE decides that they are evil and they could change the EULA so it is no longer compatible with PS, and there could be many more hypothetical scenarios.

I'm not opposed to the change, I started writing here to clear some stuff about free software. It has a definition, some stuff fits it, some doesn't. So despite UE having many good qualities it is not free software, and as such it does not respect freedom. For people who care deeply about free software it is propably a problem. For less concious people it will be like the shame after eating a whole cake.

[Bonifarzia]

Keep in mind that PlaneShift may be a true pioneer of open source gaming history, but licenses have always been seperate for engine (client and server code, GPL) and for game content (art assets, lore, rules etc., ABL). If there's a move to an open source engine of commercial origin, I don't think it changes much about the free software spirit of the way the game is developed.
Ah, I realize this is addressed just 3 posts earlier 

[derula]

For people who care deeply about free software it is propably a problem.

People who deeply care about free software would have never supported PlaneShift in the first place, at least as soon as they figured out that the claim "PlaneShift is an open source project" only applies to its source code, does not imply that any part of the project is free as in freedom, and really exists more because of some guy's idea that if you're going to make it open source, you'll be more likely to find people that will code for you for free.

[Irick]

People who deeply care about free software would have never supported PlaneShift in the first place, at least as soon as they figured out that the claim "PlaneShift is an open source project" only applies to its source code, does not imply that any part of the project is free as in freedom, and really exists more because of some guy's idea that if you're going to make it open source, you'll be more likely to find people that will code for you for free.

I care deeply about open source and I supported PlaneShift.

I always saw the art asset/code divide like the OGL d20 system vs D&D proper. That seemed like a good idea becasue it advanced everyone's technology and still let Planeshift maintain its identity. I don't agree with the idea that just because Unreal allows source access for its commercial engine that it is an acceptable alternative, however. The improvements that may come out of Planeshift after a transition to UE4 would be useless to any other open source project. It requires a buy in to a rather clearly proprietary system. It is a lot more akin to D&D 4e's GSL where the improvements are useless outside of that ecosystem.

To me, switching to use a proprietary engine will cease what made PlaneShift so special. Epic and others are on the verge of exploiting open source development by hacking copyright, which is interesting in and of itself (I mean, that's what copyleft is too), but in the end such work is being done at the expense of creating an ecosystem of tools that would allow for truely unhindered creativity. I think projects like Planeshift as it exists now are essential to the future of the video games medium so that we can remove any possible legal pressure on creativity. The terms of the UE4 licence could change at any time and the projects that can assist in ensuring that there are well developed alternitives I really feel should do so.

I don't disagree that finding an alternitive engine is a prudent course of action, but as others have mentioned there are many to choose from that do not carry with them the legal and cultural ramifications of UE4. I'd personally put my had in the Gedot engine rink as it seems the most likely to provide a user friendly GDK.

In any case, I'd urge the development team to not give into the temptation of a shinnier gratis engine over a solid libre one.

[CheatCat]

People who deeply care about free software would have never supported PlaneShift in the first place, at least as soon as they figured out that the claim "PlaneShift is an open source project" only applies to its source code, does not imply that any part of the project is free as in freedom, and really exists more because of some guy's idea that if you're going to make it open source, you'll be more likely to find people that will code for you for free.

I care deeply about open source and I supported PlaneShift.

I always saw the art asset/code divide like the OGL d20 system vs D&D proper. That seemed like a good idea becasue it advanced everyone's technology and still let Planeshift maintain its identity. I don't agree with the idea that just because Unreal allows source access for its commercial engine that it is an acceptable alternative, however. The improvements that may come out of Planeshift after a transition to UE4 would be useless to any other open source project. It requires a buy in to a rather clearly proprietary system. It is a lot more akin to D&D 4e's GSL where the improvements are useless outside of that ecosystem.

To me, switching to use a proprietary engine will cease what made PlaneShift so special. Epic and others are on the verge of exploiting open source development by hacking copyright, which is interesting in and of itself (I mean, that's what copyleft is too), but in the end such work is being done at the expense of creating an ecosystem of tools that would allow for truely unhindered creativity. I think projects like Planeshift as it exists now are essential to the future of the video games medium so that we can remove any possible legal pressure on creativity. The terms of the UE4 licence could change at any time and the projects that can assist in ensuring that there are well developed alternitives I really feel should do so.

I don't disagree that finding an alternitive engine is a prudent course of action, but as others have mentioned there are many to choose from that do not carry with them the legal and cultural ramifications of UE4. I'd personally put my had in the Gedot engine rink as it seems the most likely to provide a user friendly GDK.

In any case, I'd urge the development team to not give into the temptation of a shinnier gratis engine over a solid libre one.

The thing is the Unreal Engine IS solid. Gedot looks more like a "game maker" than an engine (UE also have a game maker like interface). I do not think Gedot have features like UE to create big forests and big worlds with many objects. Maybe 2017 Gedot have improve so much it could be a considerable alternative if the project lives so long that is. Such projects tend to be optimistic sadly and might end up to something none will work with. Then Torque3D is better option but again we do not know if all developers will lost their interest tomorrow.

This is basically why active minimal libraries should be used when making a game such as Open Scene Graph because then it is easy to switch the library if Open Scene Graph decide to give up. Heck, you could even make your own library. It will take time yes, but the whole game does not need to be make for scratch. Of course the whole game needed to be rebuild and all systems; graphics, physics, networking, UI, sound... need to be decoupled. So the UI could work alone for example. This is very difficult.

Simple games use game engines but more advanced games should make their own engine. This is because well, a already made engine can never cover up all different game types and at some point you want custom stuff that no engine can offer.

[Rigwyn]

Is this project dead?

[CheatCat]

No I do not think so. What however I know is that very few persons works with this. I think help is needed from programmer dudes and people who knows something about UE.

[Venalan]

It isn't dead, but since Eredin left the Dev team the only person working on the code side of the UE4 move is Talad.

[Volki]

the only person working on the code side of the UE4 move is Talad

I would not wish that on anyone.

[hulla]

Hello
Talad i think about you

http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg

[Oronec]

I wish I could help out in the ways that were listed, however I don't have such capabilities under my belt. Hang in there Talad and team, I'm rooting for you all to pull this off. Make PlaneShift Unreal 

[Gilrond]

I didn't follow this for a long time. How is the progress of UE port? Is there any playable client or it's still very far from ready?

[Rigwyn]

Hello
Talad i think about you

http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg

Hmmm... Hulla, I'm not sure how to read into that.