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Messages - Zweitholou

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181
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 20, 2008, 05:29:05 pm »
A problem I find with your correction:
It is located in the center of three stone quarries, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, and one to its southwest.
The lower quarter is divided into different sectors by three major roads, the main road, the road to the upper quarter, and a road from the south gate to the landing platforms.

Therefore, shouldn't there be four major gates leading out of the city, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, one to its southwest, and one to its south?
That is why I put four gates.

Zweitholou, you didn't include all elements i proposed and you didn't tell why, so i don't know. Though my proposed changes may change a bit or a lot depending from what Jeraphon will answer now.
oh gw with: shape of walls around city gates (you may keep the previous small squares at city gates base)

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear why I changed it the way I did.  I was short on time and will try to explain now:
@Nikodemus
I understand what you mean and have tried to merge your changes with the basis of the old map. Since we can't add cliffs, I changed the end that looked odd.
I mean that I took your suggestions and my plan from before and tried to put them together while changing as few building shapes as possible. I will change it more if we find it necessary. I feel that the final layout can not be exactly like that because it interferes with building shapes and other things (not enough gates, changes over time to make the road more angular for easier city shape).
Originally, I meant for the semicircles around the inside of the gate to mark off a sort of gate plaza (like in Hydlaa by Oja gate). But I think a depression in the wall would be more defendable.

Quote
he landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries.
Quote
...especially the main road and the landing platforms road...
I missed that when I first read through it. Thank you for telling me.

Also:
I do what i can in this team. I can't scetch houses designs, because i do it too poorly, so if I'm stopping someone from doing this, don't feel stopped, because the houses scetches are important. No houses no city. I can only say they shouldn't have square or rectangular shape like in Hydlaa. reality is more various. (too early to say that)
I don't think it's too early.  ::) The lower quarter should have square and rectangular houses like in Hydlaa, according to the text:
In contrast to the upper quarter, the architecture of the lower quarter is only partly Klyros. Many of the old Klyros buildings have been torn down over time and replaced by Ylian architecture [like in hydlaa?]. The few Klyros buildings that are left are about twice the height of the other buildings and are mostly built of wood.
As for the Landing Platforms, I thought squarish buildings would be cheaper... That's why i put squarish buildings there.
And I do appreciate everything you, as well as Baldur, rast, Scorpio, and Ramzez, have done to help the team and the project. I could not do it without all the other tremendous designs, drawings, ideas, corrections, and criticisms.

@Baldur
I agree and I try to do sketches when I get the chance. I look forward to seeing yours. \\o//
Also, do you know how we should go about getting Nikodemus recognized officially as part of the team? We wouldn't be exceeding 6 members because Jyoshka isn't part of the team (as far as I know). If this sounds presumptuous, it is because I could not think how to word it properly. I assume you have asked Jyoshka (if he wants to be on the team), but I don't know what he said.

I hope I explained everything. Please point out what's wrong.  :oops:

182
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 19, 2008, 10:32:58 pm »
Here is the walls and roads part of the revised map.


Let me know what is wrong so I can fix it. Use the map below for reference.

Hello. Here is a city layout I've been working on.


Key
A. Vigesimi's Tower
B. University of Amadenier
C. Plaza Park
D. Hospital of Talad
E. Magic Shop
F. Guard Barracks
G. The Parting Ways tavern
H. Landing Platforms (buildings)
I. Smithy
J. Burial Well
K. Warehouse

The buildings along the main road are for various crafts. Plain square buildings are typically Ylian, while more unusual shapes are Klyros.

@Jeraphon
I'm sorry. I overlooked that and will be careful to avoid it next time.  :whistling:

@Nikodemus
I understand what you mean and have tried to merge your changes with the basis of the old map. Since we can't add cliffs, I changed the end that looked odd. Sorry about your PSP.  :(


183
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 19, 2008, 04:16:06 pm »
Sorry I've been quiet for a while. The workload at school has picked up a bit and I've also been busy outside of school.

@Nikodemus
I agree that the main road should bend as you demonstrated, and I think such a bend would have several benefits.
Also, you described my train of thought very well. However, I am a little confused by the last bit.
If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.
Do you mean to say that if that or a similar idea is not what I had in place to guide me, then I should devise a history? I did have a history similar to what you described.

@Baldur
I understand what you mean by the city growth, and I see that my map is illogical in places. I am sorry I was so unyeilding. I will revise the map to incorporate more logical growth and a bending main road. I did some research on medieval town layouts not long ago and I will continue to use them as reference material.


Is it possible that we could combine planned and grown in the layout? Perhaps the Klyros came to the area which fit their needs and was rich in resources and decided to make a town, primarily the upper district and the beginnings of the lower district without a wall yet. As the trade boomed the city grew outwards, but only in one direction because the other direction was blocked off by cliffs. The landing platforms were built to centralize the center for exports and imports, as well as to house lower class and poorer workers outside the lower quarter walls.

Again, I will revise the city plan to reflect the changes we have made.  :thumbup:

edit: How's this?

184
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 14, 2008, 04:12:00 pm »
I think it does.  :)
Perhaps drainage troughs could be added to the bottom edges of the tunnels because of all the water. Also, maybe for decoration the walls could shimmer or flow like water (shiny preference of Klyros and decorative magic of Klyros). Then again, that would be hard to do I suppose. It depends if the tunnel is highly trafficked. Tunnels in constant use, I think, would be more decorative.
It looks good.  :thumbup:

185
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 13, 2008, 06:55:05 pm »
@Nikodemus I agree but I didn't think we had a choice.
After some quick research I found that the world's largest dome is the O2. It is only 365.0 meters and was built in 1999.
It is not glass and is supported by steel cables.

Yes, the wall is thick, especially for a wall in a Klyros town, unless other races helped built it. As for the no change, fires and other natural disasters destroy property and some old buildings are demolished to make room for new ones.

They would have leaks. Blackhole quarry is filled with water at the bottom and supplies the city's aquifer with water.

There could alternately be marshy ground due to high water table that stopped the city from extending. Or this and cliffs. Marshes would fit well with Klyros, I think.

Sorry if it's confusing that I responded backwards.  ???


186
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 13, 2008, 05:16:55 pm »
Thanks. I'm on.

187
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 13, 2008, 04:48:32 pm »
@Baldur
Again, I'm terribly sorry if I sounded arrogant. :'( I can't stand arrogance, and that was never my intent. I spent a lot of time on all of this and a bit of pride apparently developed.  :whistling: I will humble myself...  :surrender:
But enough of that. After reexamining some preliminary sketches which I didn't post, I realized the way I had qualified the shape. I forgot to refer back when I did the topography. Originally, I had high cliff walls (or at least unsuitable terrain for building) near the upper district that would have prevented expansion to the northwest. Perhaps, the landing districts stopped where they did because of a foreign goverment reason. Let me explain. Suppose the town of Amdenier was established as a mining colony, of sorts, for Klyros. This would mean that another government would control the city from afar. While simple matters of judgment would be left to the colonists' government, the larger doctrines and laws would be issued by the distant governing body. Well, it is a known fact that Klyros tend to be  stubborn and *somewhat* arrogant, so it will come as no surprise that the colonists got comfortable with their power and wanted more.
The founding government saw this attitude as dangerous and sent reenforcement troops to stifle any uprisings. The colonists rebelled and were crushed. To punish them, walls were built around the landing platforms so that the growth of the city would be slowed. Much later, after long years of political turmoil, the town broke free of the founding government. However, the city had grown to fit the wall well, and, after it saved them from some attack or other, they decided to keep it up for protection. Some small houses still appeared around the city where possible, but life was dangerous for the pioneers, and most stayed in the city limits. Small things have changed through the years, but the basic layout remains the same.

Feel free to point out any errors I made and I will try to answer them effectively.

@Nikodemus
Glad to have your help!

I've not downloaded the IRC and may not get a chance to. If I do, I'll get on the channel.

188
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 12, 2008, 05:08:54 pm »
I hope I didn't sound rude or arrogant.  :( Confidence was my intention.
a) I meant that I saw no clear explanation, and thought that my version of the history was best supported by the text.  :)

b) I hadn't thought of that...  I suppose I viewed the older (in my opinion), higher class upper district property as more desirable.  That assumption would have led me to expect challenges.  Not to mention that
only [a] few foreigners had the chance to purchase a building.
, implying that some foreigners did have a chance and succeeded.

c) \\o//

Also, what importance will the decision on which part is oldest have for the design?  I'm sure there is a good reason that I just haven't thought of yet.  ;)

Here are some new concept sketches of buildings.  Their foundations should match those on the map.

The arrows on the tavern indicate entrances and exits.




189
Fan Art / Re: Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest
« on: February 11, 2008, 07:06:12 pm »
Thanks for the pointers. :)  As it happens, I feel quite the contrary.  ::) The oldest section would be upper district.  As I understood:
A2.4 Interior

Lower quarter: The lower quarter is the place where most of the city's business is conducted. In contrast to the upper quarter, the architecture of the lower quarter is only partly Klyros. Many of the old Klyros buildings have been torn down over time and replaced by Ylian architecture. The few Klyros buildings that are left are about twice the height of the other buildings and are mostly built of wood. Every Klyros building has several stories; a small terrace on each serves as an alternative entrance for those that arrive through the air. One or two rectangular towers, which are used as an exit, are situated on each of the Klyros buildings. These towers enable Klyros to reach any location within the lower quarter with ease. The lower quarter is divided into different sectors by three major roads, the main road, the road to the upper quarter, and a road from the south gate to the landing platforms. Along these roads, several crafters have set up their shops. The lower quarter offers a wide selection of crafters, including stonemasons, woodcutters, bowyers, carpenters, and engineers. In the lower quarter, in the southwest corner, next to the main road, there is a small hospital run by followers of Talad.

Upper quarter: The upper quarter is where the city's government and the social elite of Amdeneir reside. All of the buildings in the upper quarter are typically Klyros, as only few foreigners had the chance to purchase a building. [more klyros buildings therefore older part of city?] It has no connection to the landing platforms, only a single gate to the lower quarter. In the middle of the quarter, at the end of the road connecting the upper quarter to the lower quarter, there is a larger plaza. In the middle of the plaza, there is a park filled with plants and trees from both the Dome and the Barn. At the north end of the plaza, there is the vigesimi's tower. At the sides of the plaza, clockwise from the vigesimi's tower, there is the university. Small roads lead away from the plaza. There is a market in the plaza, around the park, where booths sell various items.

Landing platforms: The landing platforms are the trading center of Amdeneir. Most of the goods imported into Amdeneir arrive through the air. The landing platforms are the least secure area of Amdeneir as well. The huge storehouses of several trading companies attract thieves. The landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries. On the south end of the quarter are many small shacks owned by day labourers and those that can not afford other housing.   These shacks have been the cause of trouble between the local social elite and the government, as they fear for their safety, especially due to the easy outbreak of disease in the dense housing area. Like in the upper quarter, a market is held on the small plaza of the landing platforms quarter. Stables for flying creatures can be found right besides the landing platforms. A large market hall is situated next to the quarter's plaza. Inside, several merchants set up their business and sell their goods on a daily basis.

The three major roads, especially the main road and the landing platforms road, are filled with caravans transporting goods. Even the airspace of the roads is filled by Klyros gliding to their destination. Next to the gates connecting the quarters, are two holes on each side allowing air traffic.
It seems that the upper district contains the older, klyros houses.  The sense of arrogant nobility that is held by some upper district dwellers may have developed because:
a) upper district is older
b) upper district dwellers have lived there longer, securing better jobs and having more time to move up in society
c) heightened crime in landing platforms due to occasionally hard life
Also, the oldest quarry is wetsoil, which is (on my map) connected to upper.  Originally, stone from quarries would have been used to build the city itself before trade became the major focus.  Then, as more jobs opened up for mining and trade, individuals with less money would move in seeking better job and better life.  Upon moving in, they wouldn't have enough money to buy a proper house and would resort to a smaller abode amid the trading facilities (smaller commute too  ;))  Upper would be more specialized because it has had more time to specialize.  Some buildings that have specific purposes now may not have been built for their present purpose.  For example, the university foundation could have been built as a warehouse, only to burn down later.  Since the city had changed, the old warehouse remains were turned into a university because one was needed and this spot was ideally located. The crafting shops would have already been located outside the walls because the nobles and government officials wanted to make sure their land was protected first, and they had the money so they got their way.  Later, as crafters advanced in proficiency and status, they decided to wall off their portion of the city.  However, they still did not provide funding for a wall around the landing platforms.  Later, this issue was tackled by the government, seeking economic reform for it's citizens.

I may be wrong, but is it not true that the "down town" area is generally the oldest part of the city?

@rast- the mines can certainly change, as I designated them on a whim.  :D However, I don't think Rockcliff or Blackhole should be too near the city. Otherwise, they would have been discovered earlier. However, Wetsoil might be a logical candidate to be nearer to the city (just not too close :sweatdrop:). One reason against it being too close is that it could poison the water supply under the city with ores and other mine related chemicals. Also, a big hole in the ground next to the city could prove a disadvantage in a battle (hiding place), as well as render the wall unsound.

A possible cultural element of the city shape-
If you turn it so that the main road is vertical, with the Blackhole entrance on top, it looks somewhat like a fish.  :P

190
Fan Art / Re: Official City Design Contest:Team Adraax
« on: February 08, 2008, 06:37:18 pm »
@Jeraphon
I understand about the airships and other aspects as well. I did not mean that the port would be used. I meant for it to serve as an architectural reference to a previous style I had presented.

@Baldur
I agree that the buildings should not be as organic as some I have drawn. Also, I agree that we should include architectural elements from Inca's picture, while using other ideas as well. I think the houses should be lofty and arcing while also fluid and practical, reflecting the Klyros' nature.

@rast
The map looks good thus far! I am a little confused by some of the shapes, but no doubt the key will help me to understand. Keep up the good work.

@Nikodemus
I didn't include stairs for that very reason.

@Xordan
I built a rough model in sketch up to get a feel for the city and see what it looks like from within. I seems fairly cozy and interesting so far. Fences would be strategically placed between buildings to separate areas and keep less in view. The concave curving outside walls help create a sense of intrigue as one must peer around them to see more. However, their presence can be logically explained. A concave curve in the wall would allow defenders to attack enemies along the wall with greater ease.

Here is an attempt at the surroundings of the city. The lowest areas are near water, while the highest are near the edges of the map.


Also, if the sectors apply only to the area within the walled city, here are the divisions into three major sectors.


If the sectors apply to the surroundings, then the 4 major sectors would be 1 for each quarry and their road to it, and another for the walled city and the land immediately surrounding it. Then the sectors in the map above would be minor sectors.

191
Fan Art / Re: (Adraax:City Project) Official City Challenge
« on: February 02, 2008, 11:16:01 pm »
Is the 3 km limit for the city within the walls only, or for the surrounding landscape as well? Also, would the quarries be included in this or not? I came to an approx. measurement of 300 m for the diameter of the walled city based on reasonable building sizes. This makes me think that the 3 km limit would be for city and surroundings, quarries as well.

192
Fan Art / Re: (Adraax:City Project) Official City Challenge
« on: February 01, 2008, 06:26:50 pm »
Thank you.
I would definitely like to join the team.

@Rast Precisely, I was just indicating that if you leave that gate and follow a long, winding road, you will eventually reach the mines. I have concepts below. Also, rast, your building looks great.  :thumbup: The perspective is well depicted and the design is interesting. The vine-like columns seem more Elven than Klyron, but that would be simple to change.

@Scorpio The sketch looks great. Keep up the good work! A good subject matter to work on would be some architectural illustrations or some panoramic views of the city.

Here are the mines and some old pictures I thought I would revisit.









Port Kydril
Main port which handles goods transported by sea, land, and air.


Joelkine Tavern
A warm building with a rich atmosphere. Favorite place of fishermen, sailors, and travelers to rest and share stories.


Building 1
Just an idea...


Building 3
Another idea...

More pictures can be found at http://www.freewebs.com/zweitholou/adraaxklyrosproject.htm.


If anyone has any ideas for subject matter for me to sketch let me know.

193
Fan Art / Re: (Adraax:City Project) Official City Challenge
« on: February 01, 2008, 12:00:50 am »
Hello. Here is a city layout I've been working on.


Key
A. Vigesimi's Tower
B. University of Amadenier
C. Plaza Park
D. Hospital of Talad
E. Magic Shop
F. Guard Barracks
G. The Parting Ways tavern
H. Landing Platforms (buildings)
I. Smithy
J. Burial Well
K. Warehouse

The buildings along the main road are for various crafts. Plain square buildings are typically Ylian, while more unusual shapes are Klyros.

Here are two building sketches:


Any constructive criticism is welcome and needed!  :)

194
Fan Art / Re: (Adraax:City Project) Official City Challenge
« on: January 30, 2008, 04:47:09 pm »
If there is a team Adraax, I would like to help, but probably only for phase 1. Should I post the ideas I come up with in this thread? So far I've sketched all three mines, a city layout, and a few points of interest for Amdeneir.

195
Fan Art / Re: Adraax: Klyro's City Project
« on: January 21, 2008, 04:21:54 am »
An interesting example is the sea people portrayed in Toni Diterlizzi's and Holly Black's Arthur Spiderwick's Field Guide to the Fantastical World Around You
Here is a link with an example.  http://mizdracona.deviantart.com/art/Spiderwick-Mermaid-68793005
The way sea animal body parts are incorporated gives it a realistic, sea-like feel. The 'eyebrows' are simple color patterns that mimic mammalian eyebrows. Also see the way hair is represented with fins and tentacles. I think this approach might work with Klyros females.

Below is a mohawk, which is a hairstyle that originated from a Native American tribe and hairstyle.
I feel that the male Klyros head fin is somewhat similar to this with webbed skin in between. I do think it might be nice to have fin color variation as a hair color choice eventually. A splash of red or yellow might help make the fin more attractive.


On a totally different subject, in response to the note that Klyros are skilled in decorative magic, I feel that they should be able to
1. create pictures which move
2. create "windows" such as are found in the Hydlaa secret garden, these would make the Klyros feel closer to nature while in buildings
3. have pictures and paints which change color, much as some squid can do with their skin
4. use magic to "bind" elements such as water and air and turn them into sculpture

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