31
General Discussion / Re: "Secret" Meetings.
« on: August 02, 2006, 12:21:55 am »
Or the more obvious point: Just use group chat.
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32
Technical Help: Problems BEFORE entering the game / Re: Lazy troubleshooting 101
« on: August 02, 2006, 12:14:06 am »
That's probably a good idea; have one full guide thread, and one smaller consolidated "newbie" thread.
...
Ok, and I see you already did that.
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Ok, and I see you already did that.
33
Development Deliberation / Re: Network improvement
« on: August 01, 2006, 04:24:20 pm »
Sorry,
WRT == With Respect To
Simply put, we have our own networking methods and we will always be sending chat over that. You might think that there even is such a thing as simply "switching" to something else, but there is not. What you really want is to put the chat on some other server to avoid lag, and not only do we not have another server but it can't be just seperated like that. You also have to realize that no matter what, the chat needs to go through the main server for all sorts of thing ranging from simple flood prevention to NPC communication. Also, we will not have chat available to out-off-game methods. That would be an OOC nightmare, and be quite polluting to the game. You are thinking there is something you can just "do" and there isn't.
To try to explain the problem of knowing if you can see something: First of all, it would have to all be done on the server. To know if it can see something, it first has to know where it is, thus defeating the purpose if it's already sent. So, the server has to be doing all this, which means sending out millions of hitbeams. It'd need a few from each actor to each other actor in the sector. (not to mention that the server would then need all the models loaded up) So, maybe 1 or 2 per actor and 6 or something actors per viewing actor, and then we've got to be doing these a few times a second, so we're talking a good 5000 of these going. (vague crappy estimation) Not only is the server CPU use shooting up, but we're delaying things, and the bandwidth drop from not relaying some DR messages would be fairly meaningless. Frankly, it would add lag because now the server has to analyze if it wants to relay DR to people instead of just doing it.
Please realize, we have no bandwidth problem here. Lag and bandwidth usage can be related but are not the same thing. There are a few stupid bandwidth things that need to be fixed, and eventually when we get multi-hundred users at once the next DR stuff will be nice. However, to remove delays there are probably some inefficiencies in the server in how it processes messages that need looking into. That, and not having the server in a god awful place. Seriously, a 333 ms ping is horrible. Just the fact that you can play PS at all under these kind of network conditions is a miracle. PS' network layer is one of the few that can actually handle this, and still work rather well.
WRT == With Respect To
Simply put, we have our own networking methods and we will always be sending chat over that. You might think that there even is such a thing as simply "switching" to something else, but there is not. What you really want is to put the chat on some other server to avoid lag, and not only do we not have another server but it can't be just seperated like that. You also have to realize that no matter what, the chat needs to go through the main server for all sorts of thing ranging from simple flood prevention to NPC communication. Also, we will not have chat available to out-off-game methods. That would be an OOC nightmare, and be quite polluting to the game. You are thinking there is something you can just "do" and there isn't.
To try to explain the problem of knowing if you can see something: First of all, it would have to all be done on the server. To know if it can see something, it first has to know where it is, thus defeating the purpose if it's already sent. So, the server has to be doing all this, which means sending out millions of hitbeams. It'd need a few from each actor to each other actor in the sector. (not to mention that the server would then need all the models loaded up) So, maybe 1 or 2 per actor and 6 or something actors per viewing actor, and then we've got to be doing these a few times a second, so we're talking a good 5000 of these going. (vague crappy estimation) Not only is the server CPU use shooting up, but we're delaying things, and the bandwidth drop from not relaying some DR messages would be fairly meaningless. Frankly, it would add lag because now the server has to analyze if it wants to relay DR to people instead of just doing it.
Please realize, we have no bandwidth problem here. Lag and bandwidth usage can be related but are not the same thing. There are a few stupid bandwidth things that need to be fixed, and eventually when we get multi-hundred users at once the next DR stuff will be nice. However, to remove delays there are probably some inefficiencies in the server in how it processes messages that need looking into. That, and not having the server in a god awful place. Seriously, a 333 ms ping is horrible. Just the fact that you can play PS at all under these kind of network conditions is a miracle. PS' network layer is one of the few that can actually handle this, and still work rather well.
34
Newbie Help (Start Here) / Re: IM NEW!!!! And i've got some questions that NEED answered! please.
« on: August 01, 2006, 04:03:27 pm »What are the system requirements?Click here for the system requirements. Based on that slow CPU and a "pretty crappy graphics card", my guess would be no. It depends on how crappy, and if you're willing to turn down some settings in the setup. You can try if you want, but don't get your hopes up.
I have 256 mb ram...856MHZ processor...and a pretty crappy graphics card which doesnt support direct x 9.0 WILL THIS EVEN RUN
Is there PVP? What is it like?There are duels which require agreeing to by both players, and open-PvP between guilds in the form of guild wars. (which require agreement between both guilds' leaders)
Is there a level limit?There are no levels. Give this a read.
How many people play?Check out this. (though the graph seems to be old at the moment)
Is it addicting?Sure, anything can be. We're just a pre-alpha at this point, however there are many people who do play quite a bit.
What kind of skills are there?Lots. Swords, daggers, axe, armor, magics, mining, crafting, and more.
Do you stay in one server or switch?There is only one public server at this time.
35
Newbie Help (Start Here) / Re: Why isnt is so "Massive"
« on: August 01, 2006, 03:56:03 pm »
We hit 190 for a bit yesterday, but no, the population is not gigantic. As we're adding more features, and now with the trippled world size, I would expect the numbers to steadily climb.
36
Technical Help: Problems BEFORE entering the game / Re: Lazy troubleshooting 101
« on: August 01, 2006, 03:50:59 pm »
Well, I have one big sticky, and no one reads that either. The problem is, I add stuff to it and it ends up large to cover everything. The larger it gets, the less likely people are to actually read it. :|
37
Technical Help: Problems BEFORE entering the game / Re: Lazy troubleshooting 101
« on: August 01, 2006, 12:47:29 am »
No, not really. I don't think anyone reads these...
38
Technical Help: Problems BEFORE entering the game / Lazy troubleshooting 101
« on: July 31, 2006, 11:52:13 pm »
If something is crashing and you can't load up the game, here's the generic troubleshooting steps you should follow before posting:
1) Reboot
2) Check the stickies for known fixes (like this one)
3) Reinstall the game
You'd be suprized at how many threads end in "I reinstalled and it's working fine now". Installation is screwing lots of people up, so please read them a few times and follow them correctly.
1) Reboot
2) Check the stickies for known fixes (like this one)
3) Reinstall the game
You'd be suprized at how many threads end in "I reinstalled and it's working fine now". Installation is screwing lots of people up, so please read them a few times and follow them correctly.
39
General Discussion / Re: The Team and the Community
« on: July 31, 2006, 10:24:41 pm »
Writer => Settings
You filled out the right app. Just make sure to actually fill out everything. People putting down absolutely nothing in the qualifications and experiences stuff get rejected.
You filled out the right app. Just make sure to actually fill out everything. People putting down absolutely nothing in the qualifications and experiences stuff get rejected.
40
General Discussion / Re: The Team and the Community
« on: July 31, 2006, 10:16:30 pm »But i also don't want to be ignored and never responded back to.Um... it'll be a bit. There's dozens of pending apps for Luca to go over, and he simply doesn't have the time for them. The one thing you need to do anything PS related is patience.
Edited to add:
Actually, I'd say the PS team is more of a heirarchical oligarchy. We all have some input on different issues, with most coming from those in the related teams, and the top leaders having overrule powers. 'Course we're back to overanalyzing things again.
41
General Discussion / Re: The Team and the Community
« on: July 31, 2006, 10:08:02 pm »
Don't automatically expect to get accepted. You need to actually be a decent artist or a programmer. (or if high, a PR guy) That, and the app list is... shall we say, "backed up"... The programming list (the one I manage) is the only one without pending apps, and even it has prospects waiting on tasks.
We barely have the time to work on stuff, and it's often hard to find time to manage a pile of barely competant prospects. (not to say there aren't good and downright great ones, but there are... others; lets just say half the people that apply to the programming dept. don't finish their first task, which is to just build from source)
We barely have the time to work on stuff, and it's often hard to find time to manage a pile of barely competant prospects. (not to say there aren't good and downright great ones, but there are... others; lets just say half the people that apply to the programming dept. don't finish their first task, which is to just build from source)
42
General Discussion / Re: The Team and the Community
« on: July 31, 2006, 09:52:15 pm »I'd be happy if we had even 20 active people, day-to-day. Most of the time we have half that.Where are you getting these magic numbers?... With respect to programming, most days we have half that, only a few actually working on the server, and usually CVS commits from only one or two people, if that. This is not a big team. If you include all departments, my generic estimate is a dozen active devs at any one time.
I'd really like to know where we get all these whiny players... they're annoying. Look, no, you have no input unless you're on the team. We like to discuss and listen to players' ideas, but we may or may not listen. It's not your game, no matter how large your ego. You have no say in the matter.
Edited to add:
Why are you quoting democratic stuffs?... This ain't a democracy; there's no rule here; we're making a game and you're playing/testing it here. Where do people get the hubris to demand to vote on things? Apply to the team if you'd like (link is in my sig), but you have to satisfactorily complete some tasks before getting in. Aka, you need to actually have the skills and talent not to make crap.
43
Development Deliberation / Re: Network improvement
« on: July 31, 2006, 12:41:21 pm »
WRT #3, sectors are big and you can see far. Example: If I'm standing in the plaza, I can see into the rest of that whole area, but there's no way to tell when a building obscures my view, or even if I can see into the tavern sector. Sure, you're not getting sent DR for people in the East or Arena, but yeah, you'll get ones from people around the West half of the city. No real way around that, and it's not really a big deal most of the time. DR is more efficient now, and again I say, I plan to make it much more so.
You also have to remember that there are 2 completely seperate sources of lag:
1) Delays in getting the data. (this could be from network stuffs as you're talking about, OR from delays in the server handling messages)
2) Inefficiencies in rendering on your client. CS' culling stuff (basically exactly what you're talking about, but with respect to rendering stuff it can see in the engine) is not exactly perfect, and they are currently working on a new system which we expect to give some notable performance inproovements.
WRT artificial lag: Not the slightest way you could say it's good. I've never really had too much of an issue, myself. Are there really that many people who can't keep up with mobs due to lag?
You also have to remember that there are 2 completely seperate sources of lag:
1) Delays in getting the data. (this could be from network stuffs as you're talking about, OR from delays in the server handling messages)
2) Inefficiencies in rendering on your client. CS' culling stuff (basically exactly what you're talking about, but with respect to rendering stuff it can see in the engine) is not exactly perfect, and they are currently working on a new system which we expect to give some notable performance inproovements.
WRT artificial lag: Not the slightest way you could say it's good. I've never really had too much of an issue, myself. Are there really that many people who can't keep up with mobs due to lag?
44
Development Deliberation / Re: Network improvement
« on: July 30, 2006, 07:37:05 pm »
1) You need to make smaller posts... You could've said all that in half the text. 
2) Yes, you suggested switching to Jobber and other stuff. That'd be someone else's system for our chat.
3) What I think you're suggesting is only sending DR for actors in sectors you can see, which we already do. I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about there.
4) I mean no offense, but you simply don't know enough of what's going on here to actually come up with something that would make any meaningfull difference. Theoretically, based on concept alone, some of these sorts of things might lower network traffic, but in no real amount that would affect anything, and would simply not be worth the effort.
5) Lag is based on having our server in a god awful location combined with message processing inefficiencies. There is no dire need to lower bandwidth usage here. The only real issue is the waste of non-cached window data, which as I said was already known.
6) Artificially giving players lag is possibly the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard... One of the many examples I could give: Player with a bad connection interacts with a group, all others match the weakest link, everyone has a crappy connection, people start disconnecting because they can't stand the thing.
7) As I already said, I have a real bandwidth optimization planned for the DR. I'd estimate 10% reduction based on current numbers. (which are after the 25% reduction from my previous optimizations)
2) Yes, you suggested switching to Jobber and other stuff. That'd be someone else's system for our chat.
3) What I think you're suggesting is only sending DR for actors in sectors you can see, which we already do. I'm honestly not sure what you're talking about there.
4) I mean no offense, but you simply don't know enough of what's going on here to actually come up with something that would make any meaningfull difference. Theoretically, based on concept alone, some of these sorts of things might lower network traffic, but in no real amount that would affect anything, and would simply not be worth the effort.
5) Lag is based on having our server in a god awful location combined with message processing inefficiencies. There is no dire need to lower bandwidth usage here. The only real issue is the waste of non-cached window data, which as I said was already known.
6) Artificially giving players lag is possibly the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard... One of the many examples I could give: Player with a bad connection interacts with a group, all others match the weakest link, everyone has a crappy connection, people start disconnecting because they can't stand the thing.
7) As I already said, I have a real bandwidth optimization planned for the DR. I'd estimate 10% reduction based on current numbers. (which are after the 25% reduction from my previous optimizations)
45
Newbie Help (Start Here) / Re: Player movement....
« on: July 30, 2006, 07:23:19 pm »
You started off by saying the movement system is horrible, talked about other games, and pointing out that you want some mouse movement stuff. What I'm saying, is that our controls are just standard keyboard based, which you simply don't know how to use that well, and we just don't have the mouse stuff you're talking about.
And no, not that many people have widescreens. You may be a bit biased if your company has that kind of cash. Only reason I have a computer that can even run PS is because I won it in a contest... With respect to most people, meaning the average person and not the one with money to burn, widescreens are quite uncommon.
And no, not that many people have widescreens. You may be a bit biased if your company has that kind of cash. Only reason I have a computer that can even run PS is because I won it in a contest... With respect to most people, meaning the average person and not the one with money to burn, widescreens are quite uncommon.