Author Topic: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.  (Read 1260 times)

Akkaido Kivikar

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« on: February 26, 2010, 03:34:53 pm »
Hello all,

I've been doing some thinking about "Alignment", and how it works with PlaneShift roleplay to easily define a character, their probable goals, intentions, and what sort of characters they may associate with on a friendly basis, and what sort of characters they will likely fight with.

I am of the opinion that Lawful/Chaotic and Good/Evil as factors is too simplistic. These alignment factors are generally written for entire civilizations in the case of D&D and PlaneShift takes place under one government, which is either Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral, depending on your IC/OOC opinion.

Good/Neutral/Evil: Stays the same.

Therefore, rather than mentioning "Chaotic", a word that has got rather negative connotations in this game, I propose using Law Adherant and Law Avoiding. Adherants follow the law and include citizens, members of the Octarchial guard, etc. etc... Avoiders tend to avoid the cities, or at least the surface of them, preferring the countryside, sewers, either because they are criminal or do not agree with the Octarchial view on politics. The reason they should not be called 'chaotic' is because it encourages loose cannon characters, something in my opinion is less than realistic for PlaneShift roleplay.

However, I also propose a few new additions to this Alignment factoring.

Sane/Insane: Whether your character is mentally healthy has a massive factoring in their goals, ambitions, and overall Alignment. In some ways, you could say I have broken Chaotic into a few factors that used to be within the chaotic area. In my opinion it is better to break into these seperate factors to better describe one's Alignment with the rest of the world. There is no Neutral to this factor, you're either mentally healthy, or for some reason, you're not.

Traditional/Neutral/Modernist: This is another big factor, especially in societies that have retained their traditions. It is a measure of how integrated into the Octarchial "politically-correct" politics your character has become.

Self-Serving/Rule-Driven: This deals with whether your character is a Rogue-ish character following his own goals, or if he (and probably his guild) adhere to a ruleset and share the same/similar ambitions, that aren't entirely equal to the law. [This was added to deal with Rigwyn's point in his reply.]

Perhaps, we could add the religious alignment of the character too. Talad/Laanx/Xiosia/Dakkru/[Black Flame]/Agnostic/Atheist/Multiple/Neutral

Example: Akaiddo Kivikar, Nekaduky'a of the Kore Irka Clan.

Good, Law Adherant, Sane Rule-Driven Traditionalist. Follows Multiple religions with a preference for Talad and Laanx.

Have a go at using this system to define your character, and give me feedback as to whether you think it encourages better thought and depth of character when one is making a character.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 04:23:10 pm by Akkaido Kivikar »

Rigwyn

  • Guest
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 03:59:15 pm »

Consider Lawful Evil.

One who is of Lawful/evil alignment does not necessarily adhere to the same laws that a government provides, rather they may be lawful because they adhere to their evil organization's laws. ie. A Demon might be conidered lawful/evil if it falls into a chain of command or operates with an hierarchy.

I think that assuming that lawful and chaotic refers to the good-guy's law might be a little misleading.

Rigwyn for example could care less about the Octarchy's laws, however he is careful to observe them when others are looking so as not to get caught. On the other hand, he has another set of *laws* that he adheres to rather carefully.

In my opinion that makes him lawful evil and not chaotic/evil as you might think.






Akkaido Kivikar

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2010, 04:06:18 pm »
By lawful, I am referring to the laws of the people in power, in this case, the Octarchy. But I do see your point. And I have added another factor to deal with it.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 04:23:31 pm by Akkaido Kivikar »

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2010, 04:26:09 pm »
Personally I do not see the point of alignments at all or rather there are many alignments not just the law/chaos - good/evil axes. They are in fact call factions. Of course you only get them from doing quests and most people do not give them a second thought.

Rigwyn

  • Guest
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2010, 05:02:53 pm »

For an understanding of D&D type alignments, this is a good reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)

While the faction system is more accurate as it is more detailed and changes with your quest choices the DnD system is more convenient when describing one's alignment / behavior verbally.  The only time I really get into alignment is when talking to a new player who needs help fitting in. With the new players I'll just keep it as simple as good guy or bad guy and let them refine it during the discussion.

Shoraal

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2010, 06:27:37 pm »
...actually, D&D "alignments" are definitely not finetuned, and not realistic either... ever took a look at the Palladium ALignments? Those are also only "few", but pretty encompassing I found (actually they are principled, scrupulous, unprincipled, anarchist, miscreant, aberrant and diabolic).

Akkaido Kivikar

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2010, 06:34:51 pm »
Difference between Alignment and Factions: Alignment tends to be an overall mentality. It will guide your character's decisions, and is rarely affected by your character's decisions.

Unlike Factions, Alignment should be there from character creation. In some ways, Factions should be the result of good play through of your character's Alignment.

Come on guys, try it out on your characters. I think it'd be interesting to see.

Shoraal

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 41
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 06:36:55 pm »
I play my char consequently anyway... I don't think anybody should just read his alignment... that is what RP is for, no?
So what is your actual point, Akkaido?

Akkaido Kivikar

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 726
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2010, 06:39:13 pm »
I wanted to see if my idea was better than the typical D&D alignment. It's pretty easy to tell who is aligned with who anyway.

Sarras Volcae

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1325
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2010, 08:09:11 pm »
so why do we need this?

Jarexia

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2010, 09:17:09 pm »
I don`t see anything wrong with trying to look at things in a different way.

I`m not usually one to bother labeling my characters with an alignment, but ff you want to represent your character in a nutshell then, yes, I think it`s a good system. I guess it does give more information than D&D`s nine alignments and the fact you can be law-avoiding yet rule-driven is a nice feature.

Kaisa, gambler and Outlaws Elder
Evil, Law Avoiding, Sane, Rule-Driven Modernist, Dakkru-worshipper.

Mordraugion

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 816
  • Ex Dev and GM
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2010, 07:44:46 am »
for the first time in ages I actually agree with Sarras why do we need a system to define your character? Your Chars actions define him/her/kra and as such doesn't need to be pigeon-holed
No longer a member of the PlanShift Development Team
Hokinon or Hoki on IRC

PS is not a democracy, nor will it ever be -- Karyuu 2006
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=21049.msg230947#msg230947

Earowo

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1463
    • View Profile
    • Guild Site
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 03:41:40 am »
and really the only way to see a persons factions is with nature intuition, which currently doesnt work, but ic anyway shouldnt let you see the factions, just how strong a person is...
Dohmo: Please clean up your language immediately.
Me: as i just said, what i said, fits in the guidlines of rated PG, i was just explaining to the G guy
Dohmo: Sorry I tried to e nice
Dohmo: and i'm telling you to clean it up. last warning
Dohmo: now just do it
Dohmo: No more warnings

Abuse?

Rigwyn

  • Guest
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2010, 07:44:51 am »

Regarding nature's intuition, you can see someone's factions however this is only a reflection of which quests they did. Its also ooc information and needs to be interpreted in an ic way.
If a do a guest that gives me positive facion with thieves for example, and then later my character has a change of heart and turns good... The faction system will not see that.

I think that a tool for describing a character is useful when defining your character, but I do agree that its not necessary.

Something to consider..

Personally, I like to start characters off with a profile that defines who and what they are.
Alignment is one component in this profile. Events that occur in rp will shape define the
character over time. I really don't pay much attention to faction points.
   

Xillix Queen of Fools

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1876
    • View Profile
Re: Alignment, and a better way of making it fit with PlaneShift.
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 10:18:59 am »
Codifying this as a system within PS is unlikely to occur.

If however, you enjoy using this to help you describe yourself to others, that's fine.