How to run a new player off.

[Illysia]

I forgot about that song.

But while Cirerey's post is on topic look at the antagonism that came from the title, an honest discussion deserves a fair shake aside from what has already gone down in this thread, for the sake of having better exposure if nothing else, hence the suggestion to put it in a new thread. It needs a chance to develop on its own merit.

No, the player was not treated rudely.

Agreed. That was IC rudeness not OOC so the IC/OOC boundary holds. The rest is just an extra courtesy but it isn't actually owed given the fact that the IC/OOC boundary isn't a hidden rule. The whole thing just broke a bit unfortunately is all.




Whether people should feel obligated to teach is not the issue. The issue is "do they feel obligated?" Consider this for a moment: sometimes you just want to pick up some RP without a ton of effort. But, if the other experienced RPers are busy, you are left to RP with the newbies. If the newbies don't know how to RP, guess what? To RP with them you will have to teach. The only alternatives are to give up on RPing and do something else or just struggle along trying to interact with them while they still don't know that asking about a computer issue is not IC, so you are now forced to teach to RP. Now factor in that you might work with a newbie for awhile  only for them to disappear entirely or they just simply aren't playing regularly. So, you start the process over with a new newbie. But guess what? The same thing happens to them. So you go through a few newbies. Finally, you have one who hangs around but guess what, they are still in the learning stages. So after all of this effort, you still might not be able to do the kinds of RP you want because your newbie might not be ready to handle it. Or, maybe they are game for trying but you spend more time instructing and teaching than you do actually working out the RP.

It's not that newbies aren't fun to RP with, but there is a skewed return/effort ratio and most people simply don't have enough to invest or enough already invested in this game (newbie/ or experienced player) to put in so much effort for such little return. Truth be told, the return/effort ratio is pretty skewed for newbies too. Why should they invest time in learning to RP, if they don't already, when they might not even like the game enough to stay? Most people only have an hour or so to play; if 40 mins of every hour is spent expending effort while hoping on future return then that return had better be tremendous to justify the expense. The problem, however, is that many times there is no return or very little if there is any.  So people end up giving up because of the burden of laboring without return.

This graph is the current monthly graph for players online in PS... look at that average dropping. People are getting tired of investing with little return and the time that used to be spent on PS is now going to other tasks because the game is becoming a lower and lower priority.



Now look at this graph from 2010. See the difference? Look at the y axis. Right now things should be picking up because summer is approaching and people's time should be freeing up. Yes people often cite machine requirements as a reason for decline but think about all the MMOs out there with higher requirements that seem to find people who can play them just fine. This is a matter PS becoming a lower priority and people are less interesred in struggling with it.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The only way that future efforts will pay off is if there is a big turn around in the present and it is more complicated than simply getting more people to try the game.

[novacadian]

My main has the advantage of being a Priestess of Talad. One of the tenants of Talad is to share and aid those in need. So it is not ooc for my character to hand out gear, stock the Gug Altar with noob quest items and give a purse of tria to some young and homeless arrival.
 
As to teaching, the mechanics of rp is shared to noobs by me. That is bracket ooc comments, etc.. Other than the mechanics it is my belief that there is nothing to teach. That is my opinion only and respect those that think they have something to share in that regard.
 
Has it been my experience to see characters being played better than others. Damn straight. Yet characters are better played the better the player knows them. So that is a learning curve... or development curve if you will. Also some people are just more expressive and are able to play the character more objectively.
 
Having been a table top GM for numbers of years that can be said to be true in RPG play too. There are players that have been playing the same character (changing the name and stats in re-rolls occactionally) for years in my campaign. They are always alter egoes of themselves. The warrior they would like to be; the mage that they see themselves as.
 
The skilled player, of course, plays the character as the character. Preaching to the choir here... yet you get my point.
 
So other than reminding (sometimes repetitively) about the RP mechanics they are left to roll with me. My experience has been that the better that my character is being played raises the bar for the noob as well and their freshness is often quite surprising where they can take things provided they have the other innate abilities mentioned.

We are playing a style of play normally reserved for children in our society. 'Tending. There are no rules for children in their pretending; only limits to their imagination.

The other thing a child has is lightness to their play. That may be the lacking feature when one divides the cast of players into categories. New arrivals and old hang arounds should be here for fun. Taken any more seriously than that deserves another thread.
 
It's pretty simply in my opinion.

- Nova

P.S. Just realized my signature needed updating.

[Zalya]

There is only so much you can teach with RP. It is like writing. You can be told how to spell, and taught the grammar and syntax, but to become truly good at it you need to find your own voice. You need to draw upon what you like, and toss the stuff you don't. Pretty soon you will find your own corner to call home, and share it with the rest of the world. I've been GMing table top games for years as well, and I have taught my fair share of new players. The best way to get them to really enjoy them selves is to present the conflict and the characters and then just jump in.

I think the biggest problem with what happened in those six lines was that I did not get the time to explain myself. I had only gotten the chance for one post before they had left. Kelaice is a character who always wakes up on the wrong side of the bed I'm not mad, or ashamed or anything of that nature. I just wish I had time to continue the RP, and perhaps an OOC chat afterwards. No body is at fault here, and I really don't think anyone is blaming anyone. Course' I think that might have been worked out already

[Eonwind]

@Illisia: first replying in 10 lines or less would be really appreciated second I suggest to avoid taking some data and arbitrarily assigning a meaning with the intent to prove your opinion in fact raw data only means we're loosing players that's it. Feel free to reply we're loosing RPers over new players but I'm pretty sure you're not being able to support it with actual data (rumors aren't data) simply because those data isn't available (yet). Third and last let me do the nitpicker  and point out that if they "do they feel obligated?" is 

[tman]

I really don't want to get involved in any arguments on here.  But I wanted to point out the major downward spike toward the middle/end of May, likely corresponding to finals.  Player count should pick back up when finals end *crosses fingers*

[Tessra]

He's lucky he didn't run into one of my characters...

My thoughts exactly.

I do take an objection to threads like this, because with the title being as it is and the lack of elaboration in the op, it comes across as being a rude, unwelcoming, targeted attack, and for someone who doesn't know Waesed, it might seem like he's just being mean.  The irony is not lost here. 

Yes, there is a fine line to walk when you play an abrasive character.  I know.  I play one.  My suggestion to the other players of caustic characters is not to be OOC towards nooblets, but to find an IC way to interact with them that is not OOC for your character.  My girl is a heinous witch, but when someone new comes up to her, one of my things that I do when I think I have a noob, is I offer them a chance to make some tria by getting them to do nefarious things.  I've paid new characters to steal from well-known players, to spy on people, to run silly little errands that my character would find demeaning to do (like picking mushrooms).  There's quite a few things that even the most evil character can corrupt a poor, innocent newbie into doing.  And the best part... it opens up RP avenues.  Case in point?  One of the ways Tesh and Travosh really started talking was her "hiring" him to steal a black falchion from Marsuveus.  You'd have to ask Trav how long it took him to actually GET the darn thing.  But a lot of RP was involved. 

For someone in Venorel's situation, just some ideas: She's a priestess of Talad.  If she's injured, she can ask a new player to help her up to the temple of Talad, giving him directions and a bit of the layout of Gugrontid in the process, and then offer him a reward for his help at the end.  It gives RP, and the same type of "reward" to the player, in the form of armor and tria, but it also lets Ven stay in character while she's injured. 

Granted, things like this, hindsight is 20/20.  It's always easier to think up what you "might" have done.  But good RPers are on the lookout for ways to keep their characters involved, keep them true to themselves, and ways to LEARN through the RP process.  No one is perfect.  No one always has the best ideas.  But the difference between a good RPer and a great one is a dynamic adaptablity that is free from the stigma of elitism. 

I suppose why things like this thread bother me so much, is that while one new player might've considered never coming back, I know at least two players who have played for 3+ years who were ready to leave over the nattering dramafest that erupts on the forum.  Players who have been a strong, noticable presence over the years, who have been welcoming to so many new players in that time, who are so tired of the crap that they would just walk away to not have to deal with the censure.  Oh, and neither one of them is Zalya. 

I don't have anything against Waesed, but I'd really like to see issues like this handled in a more productive and constructive way. 

[Illysia]

@Eonwind: Ok, here it is in 10 lines or less. Nevermind. I'm kinda tired of explaining to people the connections between things and why they are relevant to the topic at hand, explaining why I am explaining so much, explaining past relations to current relations, ect... So, I'll just let it go since the fact that I have to repeat stuff so often means people are skimming past the points and their reiterations anyway. It's not like this is my project. I tried to say something before it got this low, and I tried again to say something again before the average drops to 10 players. But oh well. Maybe when the raw data shows an average of 5 players you might find some merit in what I've been trying to say, maybe not.

I suppose why things like this thread bother me so much, is that while one new player might've considered never coming back, I know at least two players who have played for 3+ years who were ready to leave over the nattering dramafest that erupts on the forum. 

Very true.

[cdmoreland]

I never expected to generate so much attention with this. It's true that I should have explained better with the first post. I really want to see 100 players online again and rp all over the place. I posted this as a caution, not to condemn anyone for being ic. We need to find a way to retain players if we are going to enjoy this game to the fullest.

[Ebonwumon]

Have you tried traps?

[Rigwyn]

I don't think that's very PG-13

[novacadian]

For someone in Venorel's situation, just some ideas: She's a priestess of Talad.  If she's injured, she can ask a new player to help her up to the temple of Talad, giving him directions and a bit of the layout of Gugrontid in the process, and then offer him a reward for his help at the end.  It gives RP, and the same type of "reward" to the player, in the form of armor and tria, but it also lets Ven stay in character while she's injured. 

Great pointers! Thanks.

- Nova

[Volki]

LOL

Haven't been around a few days, mostly because this forum was so dead.

Now it's got a hot thread.

And it's bashing roleplay.

Cdmoreland, you're a plague on this game. Everything you post is to the detriment of PlaneShift. You've got to be a troll. If you're a troll, I must commend you for the amazingly accurate depiction of ignorance regarding roleplaying games. Go you! (Be proud, not many get that from me.)

[Minks]

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=41244.msg463907#msg463907
 

[cdmoreland]

LOL

Haven't been around a few days, mostly because this forum was so dead.

Now it's got a hot thread.

And it's bashing roleplay.

Cdmoreland, you're a plague on this game. Everything you post is to the detriment of PlaneShift. You've got to be a troll. If you're a troll, I must commend you for the amazingly accurate depiction of ignorance regarding roleplaying games. Go you! (Be proud, not many get that from me.)

I've been here for quite some time, having started on ezpc with Ellis. I guess my idea of role-play isn't the same as some others because I never enjoyed text-based rp. I like to rp what I can see and do in this 3D game. If I am a problem here, I can always leave.

[Pakarro]

I've been here for quite some time, having started on ezpc with Ellis. I guess my idea of role-play isn't the same as some others because I never enjoyed text-based rp. I like to rp what I can see and do in this 3D game. If I am a problem here, I can always leave.

Pakerl likes you, Waesed! You helped her very nicely when she was new....