Author Topic: Auction rules...  (Read 1575 times)

Edicho

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Auction rules...
« on: October 28, 2006, 12:07:49 pm »
I'm not really sure about these things on Auction channel so it's always better to ask: (i wish some GM's/DEV's post their opinions too :) )

Should we allow buy requests if someone is not running regular business (in examlpe Alliva is ok as he always buy weapons and other stuff)

Should we allow "offers on /tell" when someone is selling weapon? (i thought auctions are public don't they?)


Thank you in advance....
Edi

Karyuu

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 03:28:53 pm »
Auctions don't have to be from established merchants - anyone can run one. As for the offers in /tell, it's an OOC function that I would rather see people avoid. Auctions are indeed meant to be public. I'd be hesitant to say that it "isn't allowed" - only that /tell is meant for OOC purposes and does not mix well with roleplay.
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Suno_Regin

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2006, 03:31:25 pm »
The only things tells are used for in roleplay would be either someone trying to act like they're magic and speak through your thoughts, or they're whispering to you.

Proglin

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2006, 03:34:17 pm »
An auction is an auction.. I liked the way Bodacher and I did them with the P.U.B.S. (Proglin Unsir & Bodacher Seldakam) Auction House. We announced them on forhand, and sold of wares using an auction like it should be. A guy presenting the items, and all people offering in auction, trying to get their hands on the most liked item.

If you want to RP an  auction, I'd definitally leave /tell out of it.
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Hadfael

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2006, 03:40:52 pm »
When multiples auctions are held at the same place or at in a limited area, offers and bids to one or the other can easely be mixed. For such places you can make a call in /auction to define the object you have to offer, and the initial price and where you are. Then bids can be made by interrested people coming closer to you and bidding in /say.
This is not a matter of GM opinion, but a civilised way to share space.

Akaye

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2006, 03:50:47 pm »
The best aucton I ever attended was Proglin and Bods P.U.B.S. I liked the way they did it. It was very realisitic.

Anyway, some people feel more comfortable being a silent bidder. So they may send you a /tell bidding on the item you put up in the auction box. Or they just may not be close enough for you to hear them in any of the other chat boxes. A friend may have told them about the item and so they send a /tell bidding on the item. I don't think auctions are just "public" not unless you want them to be.
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Nikodemus

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2006, 06:51:39 pm »
Anyway, some people feel more comfortable being a silent bidder. So they may send you a /tell bidding on the item you put up in the auction box. Or they just may not be close enough for you to hear them in any of the other chat boxes. A friend may have told them about the item and so they send a /tell bidding on the item. I don't think auctions are just "public" not unless you want them to be.
It doesnt matter, its ooc. That just for a matter of fact, nothing more.

When there are many people selling and buying things in one area, a good idea is to write the name of the person directly interested with what you auction/say/shout. Its working well as the interested people can easly ignore the rest of messages.



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zhai

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2006, 01:06:37 am »
How does the auction channel work IC? Is it a board? Someone shouting like in a market? Or is it really a 100% OOC channel? When people say "silverweave ss /10 s2.0 /tell offers" it's hard to let it pass as IC at all. And even if you use it IC and avoid OOC info someone will go []less and ask "what's the /?" or "weapon specs please"...
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Nikodemus

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2006, 04:23:14 am »
You could call it special market language. sellers use shortcuts, because others use them too. Its normal on a market. It is important to sell your offer in a short way. In effect, not every stranger undestand this a bit different language, but they learn fast.
The question is what about the slash and speed informations. It is hard to us to know it from looking at the sword, but the problem as they are present, even if not for your char. It is imposible to avoid it when buying a weapon. Would you buy it not asking for the slash? As long as these stats are present, it will be asked or told at least once for the buyer, so he know its value.

We have two options as everything whats in-game is suposed to be IC
a) eliminate the stats values from weapons
b) accept knowing them as IC, no matter how amaizingly suprising it is that everybody know the exact numbers.



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Edicho

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2006, 08:50:43 am »
so:

as long as group auction will be made we can allow /tell, but not /tell me offers? (to be sure auction is public somehow and we know someone don't forces us to pay more) 

and noone told yet how we should treat seeking items on auctions. (as far as i remember auction is for sales :) ) so how?

Hadfael

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2006, 11:30:20 am »
As it is right now, it's like shouting offer and bids. As long as it's done this way, not using /auction for private conversations, it is fine and reflects the life of a public market.
Of course you can come close to the seller and whisper your offer, or decide to make it public.
Using the name of the seller in your bid can work, but it means that you shout it accross the market place.
Yliakum being a rather civilized place, everyone should be rather aware that shoutings are noisy. That's why when possible they would prefer going next to the shop to see who is around, who is bidding in a normal voice (/say) or may be whispering.
And to know the stats of an item, you have to look at it to evaluate its quality.
It seems that everyone is able do make precise evaluations independently of his knowlegde. But well, it's the way it is. But one should not believe the seller, and come to see merchandise by himself.
If this is discussed, it is that /auctions are too often turning to noise and confusion, with OOC informations mixed to ingame life.

Let's say we have two merchants selling fish. Each one selling to the best offer. since there are no separate shops, they can stand far anough from each other so what is said next to one [/say range=10meters] is not heard by the other.
Each one can "/auction "fresh fish" starting at X Tria", as a sword seller can give the name and average quality. /auction is heard by passing-by people, the interrested ones can come closer, have a look at the fish, evaluate how fresh it is then bid Y Tria. From time to time, the merchant might "/auction "really fresh fish" almost gone for Y Tria" to attract other customers.

what's IC and OOC in this?
the /auction can be kept IC by not giving stats but his personal evaluation of the item compared to the ones sold by a regular merchant like Harnquist for weapons. Fine, good, excellent, legendary...
They can use abreviations and acronysm if they are sure their customers are going to understant them.
-side note: BS can be interpreted a few other ways than Broad Sword, one using B for Bull ...-
To look at the merchandise, you have to rely on the seller. An OOC solution is for the seller to use his description. After all, there are no implemented shops, so the seller is the stall. When not selling, moving around...he should not have an opened stall.

Before stalls are implemented, you could try this system to see if it works, and suggest solutions to possible problems you discover in it. Hydlaa's plaza and Ojaveda's Akkaio dsar are market places, use them and share them.

bilbous

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2006, 11:53:57 am »
I think what might be helpful would be for someone to design a system of ordinal values that could be adopted to replace raw slash values. a ruined short sword with a slash value of .1 could be said to be as sharp as a butterknife. One thought of the top of my head is that we could adopt the mohs scale of diamond hardness and adapt it to our purpose. This scale traditionally ranges from 1 to 10 which fits our needs. therefore a blade with a 10 slash could be described as suitable for engraving diamonds while anything less than 2 couldn't scratch talc. In this way we could eliminate the need for OOC slash values while still having a means of discussing comparative quality.

This is just a suggestion another means might be better suited to our purpose but the real difficulty will be getting players to actually use the system.

LARAGORN

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2006, 12:13:58 pm »
For stats being asked for or told, I think it is a very easy thing to do IC. You can say something like " I have a beutifull SilverWeave Short Sword, It is 10 times more powerfull than a regular Short Sword. It is balanced perfectly so its motions are as fast as a regular Short Sword."
You can play with the wording to compare other specialty swords to the base or standard swords, ' feels twice as light as a Long sword', 'This sword has been crafted with such precission it wields like a dagger'. For everyone who has played for a short time, it wouldnt take much to figure out the speed when compared to other standard weapons.(IMHO)


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Hadfael

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2006, 12:26:15 pm »
This is just a suggestion another means might be better suited to our purpose but the real difficulty will be getting players to actually use the system.
Players are the society, general usage defines the customs, mores and everyday life. GMs are not here to ineterfere with that unless it's really disruptive, like abuse of OOC, flood and spam.
The best way for you to create a custom in game is to use it and encourage others to use its benefits. You won't be able to "force" others to agree with it. shoutings, OOC, auctions, duels, mobs sharings, ... are under a set of rules, the rest is customs, manners, lifestyles...
If you think you have a good "system", promote it. If it's generaly agreed that it's fine, it will become part of the Yliakum's civilisation.

@LARAGORN: It would be the perfect way. Maybe is it unrealistic to hope that people are going to be perfect :) and we would have weapons 2.732 times the base stat very soon :) . The more your options are IC the more people are going to follow you.

zhai

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Re: Auction rules...
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2006, 12:38:09 pm »
I still think the auction channel is OOC by default. It's just that I can't find an explanation of how the messages go from char to char without being OOC. You read an offer because you're in the /auction range, yet you're in the arena, hunting or training and with no merchants nearby yet you're interested in the item and you bid with /tell or in the /auction channel too. Is it yelling? Is there someone shouting their lungs out offering a sword or glyph and bidders do the same if interested?

What if you're in the middle of RP and you hear an offer and you bid but you don't leave your RP. "She's having a baby! Push!", "what's the /?", "Push!", "I'm at the tavern", "wheee-wheeee whoooo", "ok. 10k's fair...", "One more push!"... Bad RP? Well, maybe... but i think the channel itself is disruptive. Would be better to just have people shout, if that is how it is meant to work.

Another example, when Proglin and Bodacher held one of their auctions people used the channel to bid and they were told not to and some players were muted for "flooding". Well, if the channel is meant to be IC not using it to bid would be a contradiction, right? especially during an event where the whole thing is being done in character (and very well thought out).

So, if the channel is not OOC but can't be used IC either... why have it in the first place?
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