PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lilie on June 12, 2006, 10:24:05 pm
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I did not notice this before, but I had created a new charecter recently and I actaully found that its really hard to gain pps when you are new. I remember at one point I thoult it was a good idea to make some of these npcs much harder but its not really a good idea unless you make other npcs that at least give newcomers a chance to gain pps. Only thing I can fight right now are rats and clackers and it would take me probly hours to gain enouph pps to makea little difference. I know it has been descussed about adding npcs, but does not any one think its one of the most important things right now untill you guys implement other features? I understand that you want to get people off power leveling but as its one of the only things to do in PS right now I think its important to get that done before you go on to the next thing. I have played this game for 7 months now and never had a problem untill now. I started a new charecter and I cant really do anything, I can't even mine because I need pps to gain skill in that.
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Why don't you try grouping and hunting larger creatures for now? :}
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Ya thats true and I actaully would do that, but im more concerned about the newcomers to this game.
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How hard it is to kill a NPC at start depends on various things:
- What kind of character did you make, did you focus on intelligence or more on combat skill, etc.
- What is your equipment, you should at least try go get a basic sword from Harnquist, it's better than fists.
- Which NPC's are you trying to attack, gobbles and clackers are way harder than rats.
And then there's also the factor of being spoiled by your previous uber character :lol:
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Well I am using two 3.6 slash short swords and I can't kill a few clackers with out running low on health. Also I did not radomly pick things in the beginning I went with things that my charecter follows. So if I chose the wrong thing then its still a problem.
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That's a bit vague, if you made your character to concentrate on say magic a lot, don't expect him/her to have lots of strength and sword skill when you start, there's no problem in that, you made the decisions. You can get stronger with the sword by training, but that will take time. And why don't you start out with rats? Clackers are pretty strong, even for my character. But the main reason my character has difficulty with clackers is because he focuses on magic, so he doesn't have much strength and sword skill. I know I need more of it to properly take on strong creatures, but I just don't feel like powerleveling him, there are more fun things to do in Yliakum.
(And about the running low on health, everyone has that, it's a feature, but there is a healing spell you know)
Simply put: Don't expect your character to get in-game and be able to kill everything in sight. If you do want to be able to do that though, just make say a Kran and select only fighting/stenght events in it's life.
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The npc's being harder is, in my opinion, good for a few reasons.
Mainly, it almost forces people to interact with others and make friends so they can group and fight together. I think this is important because it puts more emphasis on the social network of the game, and to me that is probably one of the best aspects of PS. (aside from the amazing potential :D) I think if people interact with the community, they will see how great it is, and it will encourage them to at least try to roleplay along with training, and maybe even use roleplayng to help advance the physical character, and vice versa.
Easton Ghent
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Lokk people im not new here, I know what im talkin about. Yes while you may want to focus on magic it does not mean you should not be able to fight. Also yes while you can fight rats it takes bloody long. I also do not want to kill everything in sight, I can do that with Swivles! My concern is with the newcomers of the game, if they where to choose there path as an alchemist only to find alchemy is not implemented yet they will have a touph time doing anything because of that. Winry is an alchemist and I was well aware of how weak she was going to be, but I had no idea I was going to be so waek that I can only kill rats, and even then I have 1 LA and I happend get armor, so actaully even rats my have been able to kill me. I say we elimnate experience points or use them toward more simple thing like it is with mining, should be used while walking or running as well, carrying things, while killing monster would give you pps. A rat half my size should at least give me 1 pp, since a rogue can give you 15 pps. Also you completly missed my point about running low on health, yes everyone has thjat, but its just not right to run low on health so easly, with out my armor most rats take me down half health and newcomers do not have armor! And newcomers do not have Energy glyphs!So while some may kill a rat they have to wait 10 minutes just to kill another, do the math how long would that take just to get 1 pp.
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Sine we are discussing ones own opinion on the toughness of npcs, here is mine.
Make them harder. If someone can take down any mob by their selves, its not hard enough. I want groups of at least 5 before even the begining npcs can be easily defeated. This is a multiplayer game, it should be played as one.
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My opinion on leveling:
Decide yourself what kind of character you want to become. And live with the requirements.
You want to create a full-blown fighter? Then expect hours of training. Instead, you want to experience adventures? Start right away!
I started new alternative characters a while ago. And the more I play them (please note he emphasizing of "play" here), the more I am sure that I won't need more skill than necessary to survive an accidental step down a steep hill.
Even my main character, in game for half a year now (and rather often), probably will never max out any weapon skill. We already have enough Ulbernaut hunters. There is more to do in Yliakum - just find a way to get your challenges.
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Why would an alchemist want to be able to kill anything more than rats anyway?
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Unfourghtunately at this point, magic is not the best way to go if you want to kill anything more than rats. But this is a pre-alpha version of the game, the spell power doesn't do nothing and, yes, in the end you can say that magic is underpowered.
If you go with swords, or any kind of melee weappon, the things change though. You can get a character, if you know where to go and what to hunt, to be able to kill preety much anything in 2 weeks. The fact is that I only see newcomers torturing gladiators in the arena by hiting them with 1.2 damage and eventually geting killed by them. Hunting the monsters that give the best loot isn't the best way to go.
It is useless to complain about monsters being hard to kill when you go around the wilds where you can find the trepors and tefusangs that would give a decent loot and a decent amount of PP and you never see somebody there. People fight over the 11 pp trepors in the arena but you never see one hunting the weak tefusang there. Mercs are also a good ideea but they are never "busy".
So, I would suggest grabing an older "huner" by the hand and asking him/her what you should hunt not asking for weaker NPCs ;)
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People fight over the 11 pp trepors in the arena but you never see one hunting the weak tefusang there.
Because you already need a decent level (~10) or good weapons - if you are not able to do "hit & run" (because of old crappy hardware with <10 fps). And you need several dozens of Tefusang before you can afford to buy the training for the next level, especially for e.g. light armor (this takes both money and PP into account)...
I have 2 chars with weapon levels below or at 10, and if I would not play with them, and specialize in only one weapon class, I would not need a month to raise their level. But that would be too boring for me.
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Is it me or is the whole point of being new, to be hard. I personnally would hate to have to be able to go around and easily gain everything, get powerful quickly and just storm though like a walk in the park. there are rats in the sewrts. you should able to kill them pretty easily. Mass murder them. Maybe that tefusang is still simple. Skin him. Earn money.
basically, its not that its too hard. I think your just not looking.
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Ok well anyway im done with this, im just trying to make a point that newcomers do not know as much as I do, yes its laways good to ask player in game for help but you have to remember that even so you still have to be able to learn yourself if you would like. There are some people who do not like help and would rather do it themselves. Have a weak tef that gives 50 experience points and rats that give 30 or 10, I really do not think its enouph. I also do not understand why there is a 15 pp rogue, does it really make any sense to have 5 pps roges and then a 15 pp one? Why not even it out more? Also the problem is people power leveling right? Then why not lower the pps on these stronger npcs instead of making them so strong you can't beat them even at a decent level. Lower the pps and weaken it a bit and you will still have stronger fighters there and not newcomers to power level. The problem I am talking about is its not evenly done correctly, instead of npcs gradually increasing in strength we get jumps. So your either to weak for a npc or your to strong. Ok well anyway im done talking about this.
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I don't really understand this thread... I'm brand new. I have been playing the game for 3 or 4 days now... my character is magic focused... i'm strong in the crystal way, very weak in other aspects. I really haven't felt that the game was too hard... maybe i'm just used to moving slowly in games :)
I got PP's pretty easily killing rats... I found quickly that there were a few rats that were much tougher than all the rest of the rats. I avoided those. Then I found that amongst the easier rats, some gave 30 xp and some gave 10. I killed the 30 xp ones more often than the 10 xp ones. It only took a few kills per pp. I sold the pelts/eyes/tails and bought a mining pick and used my pp's to learn mining. That got me some money and I got more pp's which I put into sword skill (sword skill is 2 now). I bought 2 short swords with the mining money and with sword skill 2 I can kill clackers without fear. I can only kill a few clackers without having to sit and regain health, so maybe they aren't the best way to go yet.. but nevertheless they aren't hard. I can wipe out rats like nothing though... and like I said my sword skill is only 2. If I put in the pp's to get my skill up to 10 or something, I'll have no trouble... it'll take me some time, but it SHOULD take time... I mean MMO's aren't supposed to be done in a day. What's the rush? :-)
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Yeah, this game is easier than some others to gain pps, or, in games like Everquest, levels. I tried playing everquest again the other night, and it took me two and a half hours to get to level 6.
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I find that the NPC's seem to give a good balance of PP points...I've been playing the game for 2 months. The frustrating thing that I found is.....that planeshift is suppose to be a roleplaying game......But doen't give any PP points for finishing quests!!!! That's not right.....A character should be able to gain pp points without being a power leveler, by just killing NPC's.
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All quests should give experience now. If you find one that doesn't, do report it :}
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WOW...When did that start...i haven't done a quest in two weeks......I'm stuck on some really hard ones. Do the quests give PP points based on how hard they are? because some are a real real pain!
[ Edited for language. Please keep all your posts clean :} --Karyuu
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It's fairly recent - probably a couple of weeks? My sense of time is really off lately. Quests give experience based on difficulty, right.
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Why don't you try grouping and hunting larger creatures for now? :}
It doesn't help too much, because the only person to get PP is the person who deals the killing blow. (Or am I wrong?)
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PP is shared now when you group - Tarel reports :}
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PP is shared now when you group - Tarel reports :}
Sweet! I like this synergy between my wishes and reality. Have you guys coded it so that PP awarded increases as the size of the group increases?
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How would that work? A mob gives a certain amount of PP - the rewards don't increase if more people attack it. The PP is just split.
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How would that work? A mob gives a certain amount of PP - the rewards don't increase if more people attack it. The PP is just split.
Hmm. But don't some people learn more if they're working with others compared to if they're working as individuals?
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Very possible - but not universal. There was a discussion some time ago (I think you took a part in it) that discussed ways of making grouping more rewarding, and though I can't recall if this specific method was proposed, it would definitely be nice in the future to have group benefits.
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Very possible - but not universal. There was a discussion some time ago (I think you took a part in it) that discussed ways of making grouping more rewarding, and though I can't recall if this specific method was proposed, it would definitely be nice in the future to have group benefits.
Well, it was proposed... by me. :-[
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The problem I am talking about is its not evenly done correctly, instead of npcs gradually increasing in strength we get jumps. So your either to weak for a npc or your to strong. Ok well anyway im done talking about this.
Okay, this I would agree. The variety is often quite limited, especially in some areas (like Ojaveda: rats or rogues, but nothing intermediate inside the town). And to know the possibilities you have, you first need to know most corners of the land.
Example: Rats - Gobbles - Clackers - sewer Tefusang - Consumer - hill Tefusang - gate Trepor - valley Trepors...
Before a newcomer will learn such a row of gradually harder opponents, he will probably run around several weeks, including many resurrections.
Or he would have to ask. But powerlevelers rarely interact verbally.
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Or they can come to the forum and read some stickied guides :}
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I can vouch for teh shared XP thing.... I'm too new to know how it used to be, but the other night I was in a group and I was too weak to kill fanatics, but I grouped with one other guy and we killed one. I don't remember exactly but it seems like I got 36 xp or something like that. I got that xp even though I was killed just before my partner got the killing blow. I believe those fanatics are normally worth 60 or 70 xp (something like that).. so it seems to work.
If XP is always split evenly though, that would mean that a powerful character could very easily powerlevel a new character by grouping with the new character and killing things that he can do solo but that are far more powerful than the newbie could solo... /shrug. I don't think it's that big of an issue though, this game isn't really going to be fun for very long to the power leveler. It's much more fun for a longer time if you just take your time and figure everything out when you figure everything out.
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"Experience sharing" works as you would expect it, regarding attacks: The one who deals more damage, gets more experience.
In which way the received damage is shared, is yet unknown to me; sometimes it seems that one of the group members is preferred by the opponent, maybe the first attacker. This can give an advantage to unequal groups: One who is very well trained, especially in armor, might start a defensive attack, attract all damage (which blows off on the armor or agility), and the weaker members can attack rather safely meanwhile.
I hope that moderators will not scold me for this suggestion too much, because this behaviour supports cooperation between different members (previously I used to assume that only similar characters should group).
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By my experience the strongest attacker is always prefered by NPC's. As for that trick to let weaker members attack while the strong one fights in full defence .. it'll only work for a few seconds until the NPC notices that the others are doing more damage to him and kills them off first. I wouldn't suggest it for prolonged battles because your weak friends will be dead before they knew they were under attack if you're not careful.
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By my experience the strongest attacker is always prefered by NPC's. As for that trick to let weaker members attack while the strong one fights in full defence .. it'll only work for a few seconds until the NPC notices that the others are doing more damage to him and kills them off first. I wouldn't suggest it for prolonged battles because your weak friends will be dead before they knew they were under attack if you're not careful.
I find it is the oppesite. when I am in a group the NPC seems to always go to the weaker of the bunch.
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Well of course if the weaker person is the first to attack, the NPC needs some time to realize there is someone else fighting him who is a bigger threat ...
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I should have explained myself a little better.
When i am standing right beside the NPC (being the stronger) it goes right past me and heads for the weaker guy, standing 10 feet away. I am not that much stronger but stronger none the less. this has happend with every NPC i have fought in a group. I always stand right besided the NPC.
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Ok lillie, I hate to say this but you sound a bit ridiculous. It is difficult for me to believe that anyone would think that they should be able to fight the most difficult monsters in the game after a few hours. Progressing for new players in an mmo is supposed to be difficult. If progression happened at a quick rate, your future goals would diminish rapidly and in a gme when there are only about 8 varieties of enemies at the moment, youd quickly run out monsters to move up to. I think that players are getting to used to starting out a game and having some rich veteran give them things. That hard work and slow training at early stages are part of most RPG's I've played and definitely add to the experience. Plus the system is suppossed to represent a type of realism. When you start out at something new it is usually hard at first and only after hours and hours of practice do you start to grow your skills. This is how the system is fixed. Ive always loved starting games such as these for that reason. It is when all the entire player base cares about is finding rare items that games become annoying. RS was entirely reatarted for that reason, and all you here about in WOW are epic items.
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I should have explained myself a little better.
When i am standing right beside the NPC (being the stronger) it goes right past me and heads for the weaker guy, standing 10 feet away. I am not that much stronger but stronger none the less. this has happend with every NPC i have fought in a group. I always stand right besided the NPC.
That's true... when it comes to the stronger NPCs.The rogues in Ojaveda do that to me a lot. I've got a relatively weak character at the moment, and while the rogues could attack someone stronger pretty near me, they head for me and I get killed in a couple of swipes. >:(
Try standing right in front of the NPCs and they tend go for you.
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I'm curious to know how something as unintelligent as a trepor, or a tefusang, can figure out the difference between a strong and weak person. They should just go after whoever steps near them.
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Ok well actaully you guys are right did not look hard enouph :P. My mistake, even though I have played so long I have not killed ever npc on PS. But everything is fine now and im gaining levels pretty quickly. Oh but as im was saying before, I was not trying to say I wanted to gain levels quickly but at least give me a chance to fight somthing that give more then experience. Only thing I found are the mercs in the arena, so far. I was used to always going to the 5 pp rogues and the 15 pp rogue that I never really looked at the othe NPCs. But I still say for a newcomer to have to travel from Oja to hydlaa to the arena is still a pretty big jump in my oppinion. NPCs need to be spread out more, who says you won't find a really strong rat somwhere in oja that gives 2 pps. I mean ya some would say a rat can not get the strong but really they can, just say this rat has lived a long life and has alot of experience and has killed many people and survived. I would just like to see more NPCs spread out and evenly with the pps depending on there strength. I will assume thats what you guys are planning on. Here take a flower, its my sorry gift to all you. :flowers: :lol:
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Variety is the key. But not only variety in strength - also variety in loot!
Did you ever count how many rogues we have in the hills around the Ojaveda road? -- And now tell me why almost noone fights those: Yes, because the relation between risk and value doesn't make it worth. They are too strong for beginners, but give nothing except some good amount of experience. With a similar risk, people who are strong enough to fight hill rogues, could as well fight other opponents which give on top some loot (and you know that training is expensive).
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I'm curious to know how something as unintelligent as a trepor, or a tefusang, can figure out the difference between a strong and weak person. They should just go after whoever steps near them.
If a guy hits you with a feather and another one bangs you on the head with a malet, i'm preety sure it doesn't require alot of brains to go after that with the malet :D.
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All quests should give experience now. If you find one that doesn't, do report it :}
I'll try to report it on bug tracker, but just in case:
the Love Letter quest gave no experience (unless of course it gave less than 200 and didn't bump my PP's, which in that case sounds like an awfully low amount of experience for a quest)
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I'll add it to the seemingly growing list :} Thanks for bringing it up, Quin.
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Question! ... about these experience rewards for quests. Are you supposed to see a message in the system chat tab like with all other types of experience or do we have to keep a close eye on our skill window to see it?
If it's the former you can add the Levrus Gold Ore quest to your list.