PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zhai on August 22, 2006, 08:10:07 pm
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:detective: I'm just wondering why damage was suddenly increased. I personally don't like it that much and sorry if this bothers those of you who are enjoying it but I'm merely wondering what the rationale behind it is. Yes, everyone complained when damage was being affected by the repair skill but now that it suddenly increased not a single comment has been made. Maybe I'm spoiling it for y'all :-[ (sorry).
Anyway, the minimum-maximum damage range also seems way too wide, with silverweave ss being able to inflict 350-520dmg when they used to do 260-300 before, and same thing with daggers... And as I said, I personally don't see much sense in it but if there's a reason, I could use the enlightment. Thanks.
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so you are saying that somehow the weapon which is fully repaired with the new abily to do so is inflicting more damage than once, before the skill was introduced?
And yes, the damage is still too high, some things were tweaked, some less affecting, some more affecting, but in general nothing really changed.
Skills of fighting warriors (no matter NPC or PC) aren't compared and it looks that learning in using of some weapon, you never learn how to use it to defend yourself.
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I think damage increase has little to do with the repair skill. Both things happened more or less at the same time but I don't think that by repairing any weapon you turn it into something way better than it ever was (unless we were using crappy wepaons all this time which were meant to do this much damage in the first place).
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If we make weapons hit harder, I think we should increase the HP amount you can get. It's.. kinda boring in duels, although a little more realistic then other games. ;)
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I have noticed that the damage band does grow much wider with the higher / weapons, as I do anywhere from 50-90 damage/hit (about) with a pair of fully repaired Frosty SS in a normal stance...but that is bizarre...520 damage? was that in a bloody stance? And, I agree with Enipeus, dueling is rather boring when just about everyone has 1-hit-kill weapons. That makes it about as close to rolling dice as it will ever get, especially since the probability of you parrying an opponent's blow does not seem to be influenced by your skill with your chosen weapons, which ought to be fixed
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before the quality affects weapon update it was normally at quality 10.... now that less quality decreases damage it also goes the other way... more quality gives more damage
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If we make weapons hit harder, I think we should increase the HP amount you can get.
I really don't know how long should i repeat the same thing, over and over again. It is BORING!!!
Damage inflation is completly unnecessary !!
American goverment like to drop bombs on contries which support terrorism, but whey way to often kill innocent families and some of the innocents who stayed alive decide for revange and become terrorists, so Americans drop more bombs and we have more terrorists. Do you get how it is wrong and the similiarity?
It's.. kinda boring in duels, although a little more realistic then other games. ;)
Again wrong.
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One-hit duels are realistic since a good hit is mostly all it takes IRL to knock out someone. However, I agree that the combat skills have little effect in blocking when a master in sword, for example, should be able to... maybe that's the problem. The way it is right now, duels are like a lottery and being proficient with a weapon has less to do with who's victorious in the end. It used to be a combination of skill, luck and speed but with the combat bugs and the damage increase this has made duels a luck thing mostly: anyone half way in combat training wielding silverweave or iron weapons can be a one-hitter and the teleportation, knock back and other combat bugs make it even harder to be accurate timing the attacks (we've always had lag but it wasn't bearable). But then, if by mastering a weapon one could block a significant amount of attacks it would be more realistic (instead of having "Rogue attacks you but your head blocks it" it should be "Rogue attacks you block it with your sword"). If it only takes one hit to kill someone (especially now that damage has gone that high) then it should be hard to actually hit someone with high training in combat.
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Its funny how people tell one hit kills to be realitic, while it doesnt have much to do with the current solution for problems in the game mechanics. And the y want implementation which doesn't have much to do with realism ;P
The hits are indeed hits, because what else, but not hits in flesh, but hits which lead, one by one to the final hit.
Therwise I agree with the rest of your post Zhai :)
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hehe. trust me, IRL one hit is all it takes to k.o. someone if you do it right. ;D
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hehe. trust me, IRL one hit is all it takes to k.o. someone if you do it right. ;D
The hits are indeed hits, because what else, but not hits in flesh, but hits which lead, one by one to the final hit.
I didn't say otherwise, but pointed out that they way how you want this implemented isnt realistic. There are few posts where I explained this problem very wide, sometimes on whole page, I don't think repeating myself will make any difference.
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Do not bring politics into this forum. This forum is international in membership and is for game-related issues only. Thanks.
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Do not bring politics into this forum. This forum is international in membership and is for game-related issues only. Thanks.
Nobody's talking politics here. I'm just wondering why damage was increased, that's all... :whistling:
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He was talking to Nikodemus, most likely. See a few posts up.
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The combat system is likely to evolve and change over time. I have a feeling this issue will be temporary.
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One hit kills.
Well don't like them for two reasons
One being actually realism. Yes ofcourse in duels one good hit would kill you, but in most type of duels with swords the point is that it would be hard to get that hit. I mean if you came in to fast you would be the one who got a sword stuck in you instead of the other way around. If the opponents were evenly skilled the first wounds would probably be small cuts and those aren't really lethal although they may slow you down.
With Melee fighting this would be even more obvious. If it would be easy to knock someone out that is trained aswell with one blow there would be no boxing or the more extreem fightings. What fun is that to watch? See who is faster in showing their fist in someones face?
The second reason is obviously enjoyment of dueling and that you want to have different way to win a duel. At the moment wanting to win a lot means exploiting the bugs best seeing it's over with one hit. This makes that dueling is no fun and obviously unrealistic aswell to who wins to the skills one might have IC.
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I agree. It should be hard to hit a well trained oponent, besides their armor level. A skilled fighter can dodge and parry with no armor on, be it hand to hand or using weapons. I insist that mastering a combat skill should allow you to block a good amount of attacks. That way the one hit that kills you is truly deserving and the duel is worth watching, not just a bug lottery. And if damage can be returned to its previous digits (or lowered), I think that would be good as well (and I'm talking NPC damage as well).
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zhai... damage increase < 10 quality should do the trick :)
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I almost love you for what you have wrote Pestilience ;P
And as zhai explained in his latest post fighting is mainly about dodging and parrying. How to implement this?
Should we have system messages about eighter dodge or parry till the final killing hit happens? I don't think and never thought this being a good idea.
I hate looking at the system messages checking if i didn't caused some HP loss.
What i believe is much more reasonable solution is the HP bar which is decreasong because of parrying and dodging, later also scratches leading at the end to the final blow. In some other thread, with i think Karyuu help, i came to a conclussion that maybe its the stamina bar which should decrease and when it is very low the HP may start to decrease.
Why this idea?
Simply to know if you are loosing or not. I'm talking about real now. You usually know how good is your opponent when you face him in a fight, basing on how successfull you are defending or attacking.
System messages won't provide this feeling.
When we are at system messages, i think damage would be much more informative, if it was given in percentage values.
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i dont like one hit kills at all i prefer useing ruined weapons in deuls ect i also do not see the point in weapons exept from axes and claymores being over 5 / at the moment they are totaly unesecary.
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zhai... damage increase < 10 quality should do the trick :)
OK, maybe now that all weapons start at quality 50/50 instead of 10/50 damage has gone up that much... but still, do we need it to be that high? or should we have other elements take part in combat to give it some more depth/reality/fun? (like the ideas Pestilence, Nikodemus and myself have been throwing?).
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Honestly, I think we should completely and totally remove HP, it's unrealistic in every way.
Instead you have mental stamina and physical stamina. As your stamina decreases your chances of being hit increases. In order to get a kill you need to hit either the head or the torso, everything else is a non-lethal blow which reduces your stamina. Sword/Axe/Dagger/etc increases your chances to hit/dodge at a ratio of something like 3-4 (this would varry accoring to the weapon), making high level battles more interesting instead of less.
In the distant future I'd prefer to see hits on different body parts have more specific effects, but to me this would be a realistic approach which would make combat a lot more fun... and not to mention a lot more realistic.
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Honestly, I think we should completely and totally remove HP, it's unrealistic in every way.
Instead you have mental stamina and physical stamina. As your stamina decreases your chances of being hit increases. In order to get a kill you need to hit either the head or the torso, everything else is a non-lethal blow which reduces your stamina. Sword/Axe/Dagger/etc increases your chances to hit/dodge at a ratio of something like 3-4 (this would varry accoring to the weapon), making high level battles more interesting instead of less.
In the distant future I'd prefer to see hits on different body parts have more specific effects, but to me this would be a realistic approach which would make combat a lot more fun... and not to mention a lot more realistic.
That seems more like luck than skill.
We need a way to distinguish Stronger people from one another, and right now we have a hit points system in place to do that.
i see no flaw in it.
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ah yess Hit Locations. Fondly do I recall the old days of Runequest as a starting player walking up to a giant troll and chopping off his legs only to have two little trollkin walk up to me and chop off my legs. How Ilove hit locations. I'm gonna aim for your weapon hand and then cut you up slowly now that you are weaponless. What is that you say? I can't aim at a particular location all hit locations are random? Bummer. Oh wait now. You mean I can target a location but my chance to hit is reduced to 1% of normal ... I'll do it! Yeah! My opponent accidently chopped off my head because he wasn't aiming ... see you when I get back from the DR.
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That seems more like luck than skill.
We need a way to distinguish Stronger people from one another, and right now we have a hit points system in place to do that.
i see no flaw in it.
How does this have any more to do with luck than an HP system?