PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: dying_inside on September 03, 2006, 11:24:00 am
-
I hope this is in the right place.
Just wandering, since I realise that a bunch of people are roleplaying vampires (somthing that doesnt exist in Yliakum anyway.. :-\) a guild "vampire hunters" has been erected. Now I know its nice to have a guild and such, but seeing as vampires dont exist in planeshift, its a rather pointless guild?
So is this trend going to continue? I'm kinda worried about it to be honest as the roleplaying might be drawn out of Yliakum and into our world. Which was not the aim of the game right?
Not to stomp on anybody's dream, rain on parades and bunch of other terms, but I think someone should get that guild name changed to somthing more planeshift related..... Maybe just somthing based on snuffing out the darkness that inevitably springs up in Yliakum. I dunno, but as we dont have vampires, or a planeshift styled substitute this seemingly doesnt belong in planeshift.
Sorry if this seems a little harsh or keep to the guidlines type of thing but i'd much rather bend the rules within the realm of Planeshift.
-
This is not the first time that there is a vampire plot in the game. Sad, but true. IIRC those previous attempts were not supported.
My question is, then: Has the playerbase told about this fact to those playing that plot? And if so, what has been their reaction?
I do not think the problem is to deal with this new "vampire hunter" guild, but on the origin, the ones that chose, yet again, to bring vampires in Planeshift.
I do not see that need some players have to use outsetting creatures to develop their plots of evilness, as if they require a power that they can't have using other ways (vampires are, from a setting point of view, as extraterrestrians would be to us) I honestly think there are other ways to act, and, despite I haven't seen this ones acting, I think that the best thing to do is inform them that what they're doing has been attempted many times before, without positive success, and not because there were no abilities to roleplay such a char, but simply because the char is not roleplayable in this game.
-
Well, thats why I suggested simply having them change their name as opposed to deleteing the guiild or somthing. they havnt actually been doing anything bad, just misinformed.
-
Will there be vampires in the game eventually? If so then these guys may only be trying to reserve the name. I have to admit I have done this before. Creating a guild early just so i can use it later on (and so the name won't get nicked).
-
I doubt it. Apparantly they wanted somthing unique and original, which is why we wont be having dogs, cats and horses etc.
the only thing they skipped that on was a few player races..
They might consider doing a planeshift version of Vampires but I dont know.....
-
I doubt it. Apparantly they wanted somthing unique and original, which is why we wont be having dogs, cats and horses etc.
the only thing they skipped that on was a few player races..
They might consider doing a planeshift version of Vampires but I dont know.....
Isnt tha a bit of a pipe dream, because these days it is very, very difficult to make somethign original, for example music, it is hard to get an original tune or lyrics unless you just mix a bit of everythign to create a new sound but not nessecerally a oringinal unique sound.
Originality is nice, but if it is to difficult to create enough creatures that have not been created before then they should like relax a bit on trying to make everything original or else you are going to have very little variety of creatures in the world.
I suppose you coudl get a bit of original looking creatures but i dont think you can get many out of it, it takes a lot of hours messing around with concept art and mixing various creatures together and styles.
-
It is not really about originality and its true sense. Its rather about ideas which are so popular that almost boring. I don't know how i could exlain it better. I would rather seen the mixed version, rather than complete rip off. Like we will have pterosaurs, we could say its mix of dragon (because it fly and you can ride it), obvious connection to the dinosaurs and thats it i suppose.
Even this thread is complete unorginal ;P I believe this topic has been explained many, many times, yet people ask the sama question. But somebody has to tell this once again, for those new people who ask and wonder about the same questions over and over again. Because they never search, that can't be really called wrong, because sometimes its like telling 3 years old child to go and google the question ;P
-
I'd say Vampires are about as common in ps as in rl... there are always myths...some based in truth... i guess if there were some stipulation that real myths can't exist in ps then their name would be a myth-take... ;D
-
Just think up a new name for vampire like beings like....... gratthaks or something, there you go problem solved. \\o//
-
The problems are the people who work outside of the Planeshift settings. Those individuals don't understand roleplaying.
-
Oi vey. I have a feeling this is going to be a problem. Thus far I haven't been involved in the vampire plot; not out of choice but just because I had no way to get involved. I've been keeping tabs on it though, and so far it's been done somewhat well, a bit of godmodding but that's expected. However, I have a feeling, unless this is a part of the plot, there's going to be a lot more powerplaying going on...
-
I haven't been following this plot but indirectly. I haven't found a thread in the in-game forum but this thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25265.0) is about the guild behind it. I think the discussion whether settings allow it or not is best placed there.
-
Oi vey.
Bloody hell. Yiddish on the internet!
@Zhal : Well thanks for showing me this, I have to give them credit, because it looks like they have at least given thought to the creation of Vampires within the planshift realm. Which is more than I would have expcted from alot of people to be honest.
I'm not really damning the idea completely just kinda shying away from it as it is cliche even though I do like them.
On another note, in ths realm it seems that the vampires have more weaknesses than usual. If someone were to seek a destruction of them, then they would no doubt call on the Kran.
"let them sink their teeth into my cold hard neck and break a precious tooth!" - Boaal
-
Lately, I have seen a lot of criticism and skepticism about the vampire RP that the Monstrumis Bloodline guild has begun. As someone who has been participating in this RP (as Lexa), I have to say that it has worked quite well and relatively problem free for all the players I have seen participate. Obviously, with any RP plot, there are glitches, but overall, I am really pleased with it. To be honest, I find that the criticisms saying that vampire RPs are unoriginal and have no place in Planeshift isn't quite fair. The Monstrumis Bloodline doesn't force vampirism on players not interested in participating or engaging in the RP plot, nor have I seen any powermongering. So far my participation in it has focused almost exclusively on character development for my character, Lexa, and helping the storyline along with other players. I personally haven't interacted with the Vampire Hunters guild, however I have had many very amusing and interesting RPs with people who dislike and want to fight the vampires.
So far, this vampire RP has been one of the most fun and exciting role plays I have been involved in since coming to PS in January, and I would hope that people wouldn't scoff at it simply because it seems cliche. I think that any RP that engages players and fosters good role play and game involvement is positive and has a place in PS. If at any point the Monstrumis Bloodline vampire RP disrupts other role plays and role players, then I think some form of intervention or criticism would be warranted, but I hope that until something like this happens, the rest of the PS community can be happy for those of us who are truly benefiting from participating. I know I am now even more interested in being involved with role playing after all the fun I have been having with the vamps!
-
Indeed. Players are finally responsible for how fun a plot turns out to be. Even if the topic it revolves around has been used many, many times before, it is about what the characters do in that situation what makes the difference. Everyone RPs differently and every character should react in their own particular way to the events that they find themselves involved with. Of course, it is always good to double-check your plot ideas to make sure you don't step beyond settings. So if that has been cleared and if you're having fun, then go with it. We are all free to choose what events we participate in.
-
Yeah....Sure....
What would my char say...
Vampires? whats that? (gains description) oh well, i suppose they were hiding well for the few hundreds of years then, but how could deny if the exist.
Or
Dragons? For the Gods! where did these creatures hid, that they remained unspotted for so long??
Guns? Amaizing! I want one and wonder how they work.
Lightsabres? I can't wait the day harnquist starts to mass producing and selling them .
er, yea, everythink may be explained ICly, we jast state it happened and nothing else matters.
Setting lands in trash, logic goes to hell and we let our contaminated with ripped off ideas imagination flow without any limits.
But what would my char really do?
damn nothing. Next time I will hear somebody saying vampire, I will oocly start explaining to pain that no matter how well they set backgrond for their vampire thing, it will never fit the setting.
Damn, people if you really want to use your imagination, come up with somethink what will consists of all you like in vampires, yet will be far different.
-
I'd say wait for a GM or a dev to give the official say on whether it's okay or not.
I'm sure they will allow vampire RP.
-
If you're worried about how this idea fits in the settings, I'm sure the people behind it would be open to hearing what you think their flaws are. In their guild post they appear very open to suggestions, even to those that came with a torch. Maybe the idea of not calling them "vampires" but something else could hep a bit. I can see how the concept of vampires in Yliakum lands somewhere in a grey zone, but if there was absolut conflict with settings, I think either mods or GMs would have posted so in their guild thread. Besides, it seems like they have been working hard to make it believable. Maybe the problem is that when we hear "Vampire" we think "Oh, not again! That's been done before... and better". Well, we don't watch movies in PS so every plot, no matter how used, will have a different outcome.
Which gives me an idea...
-
I am so torn on this issue that it's painful. Personally, I really like vampires--It doesn't matter how horribly cliche they are, I just like them. They're neat. But I still can't help but think that they really don't belong in PlaneShift, along with dragons and any other creature not specifically written into the settngs.
On the other hand, the story written on the subject does a very good job of explaining their existence, and does not, AFAICS, violate the settings. I guess the only legitimate issue is that they used the word 'vampre'. This should not be allowed for the same reason as the name "Harry Potter" is not allowed--It immediately makes one think of things outside of PS (such as Buffy or Dracula), thus negatively effecting the immersion.
Those RP'ing vamps are doing a good job. My normal course of action for a subject on which i'm so painfully divided would just be to ignore it. This, however, is not possible as many of my normal RP friends are accepting the whole thing. I am left with one option. Ralas believes that those claming to be "vampires" are simply members of some cult. Perhaps drugs are involved, he's not sure. That way I can react to it in a manner which is justified given my take on the settings, without at the same time offending those Role Playing vampires. For I mean no dispresect, and as I've said, for the subject matter they have chosen, they are doing a good job of RP'ing it. I do not wish to insult them in any way. I just wish to not participate to the fullest extent possible.
[EDIT after reading Zhai's post:] I know it probably sounds stupid, but IMO simply not calling them vampires would help quite a bit.
-
I guess the only legitimate issue is that they used the word 'vampre'. This should not be allowed for the same reason as the name "Harry Potter" is not allowed--It immediately makes one think of things outside of PS (such as Buffy or Dracula), thus negatively effecting the immersion.
Not me. I mean, there's so much vampire-related stuff out there that I just think of the generic concept of a vampire ("Oh, they suck blood.") rather than any specific one. Although I'm not a fan of either Buffy or Dracula, so that might just be me.
-
Listen, this is just a bunch of people who wanted to do a "RP plot" that involved vampires. It's that simple. They ignored the settings and went off and did their own thing to have some fun. Does it kill the game for others? No. The community can't participate in such an RP - and if it did, it would be really messy - but it doesn't hurt anyone in a way besides that. The thing is, community involvement in RP is a good thing. The point of Planeshift is that you're interacting with other people. So personally, if you aren't interacting with others because you've writen your own settings which contrast greatly with the real ones, then I think you've created a problem for yourself.
I guess others feel differently though.
-
zanzibar i agreed with you until i found out about the vampire hunters guild, it seems this is an attempt to turn PS into a surrogate buffy game or something.
-
Just a note on the concept of vampirism, I looked it up on wikipedia, and it's historically been used in a huge variety of ways and usually refers to beings that are reanimated corpses, and/or who drink blood of other living beings. They are mythic, in the same way, as say, a dwarven or elven race is mythic... however vampirism isn't a race or species.
Vampirism can be interpreted as a disease, hence it could easily fit into the PS context since as far as I know, players have free reign over developing RP diseases and illnesses. Since we're using the english language in PS, then it would make sense that we would call characters who drink the blood of others, vampires, since the term appears to be used to refer to those exhibiting that behaviour. The word vampire has no fixed definition, so there is room for interpretation in use. If people prefer a more technical term, it seems vampirism could also be called hematophagy. I really don't see a problem with using the term "vampire" since there are plenty of people in PS who use other historical cultural and/or mythic terms that originate and have meaning outside the PS world (such as elves and dwarves like I previously mentioned, though in my opinion, PS has done an excellent job at enriching these mythical terms to mean so much more and quite different from popular fictional notions of them)
I think the Monstrumis Bloodline has done a pretty effective job in ensuring that they are not just reproducing Dracula or Buffy, so I want to give Ellasandra and all the other vamps who worked on the background and story behind the vampire RP a huge thumbs up! :thumbup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire
-
Yes, I speak the Yiddish. =P
Anyway, I do comment the Monstrumis for creating a believable, somewhat realistic description for a vampire and have fit it into the world: weak to Crystal Way, dwell in the sewers, etc. I've researched vampires for years, read tons of novels on them, and have made out my own types of vampire myself...I suppose you could say I'm a conniseur of sorts. However, it's rare that I've seen vampires work in a medieval setting; when we think of them, we usually think very futuristic/cyberpunk, lots of leather and trenchcoats and automatic guns. I would like to see them work, because it's rare I see vampires in this sort of setting, and it's difficult oto try something different. I wrote a story about a woman who was turned while she was a Crusader in the 13th century, and even that was hard. I really do think it can work, and I would have loved to help out if I had been able to be involved.
As for these vampire hunters, no offense, but I think it's going to ruin it. If someone could clarify if it was set up in the plotline that the guild would be made, that would be great, because if not, once again, oi vey. From what I gather, a lot of the Ylikilian vampires are not doing it out of being pure evil, but out of survival. Everyone needs a motive to do something evil, whether it's out of jealousy or greed or just insanity. No one is truly evil, it is impossible to play a character who is evil just because. I have a feeling this vampire hunter guild is just going to have the usual goal of "purging the evil vampires" or the like, and that's going to cause problems. There's going to be godmodding, lines overstepped, and tons of misunderstandings.
-
As i said, i agreed that the vampire thing may work until i saw the thread for the vampire hunters, it just doesnt feel right, but hey, time will tell i guess.
-
Vampires are not in the game. Vampirism is not in the game. Neither are in the settings. This is just a bunch of people who wanted to have an "RP story" with vampires despite the Planeshift settings.
-
Ok, I just checked out this Vampire Hunters Guild... and it seems to me that if they are actually serious (which I am leaning more towards the parody angle right now), they have created a new line of vampires that they have devoted themselves to slaying. So in fact, their guild back story is unrelated to the Monstrumis Bloodline guild.
Also, just to point out, Karyuu did post on the Monstrumis Bloodline forum topic, and it appears that the guild is within its rights to exist in PS, and I will assume that it's ok until a GM or Dev tells me otherwise. Which I hope won't happen, because really, this RP has been a blessing to help explain so much of Lexa's character and why she is the way she is, it's almost shocking to me how nicely it has fit into it.
Sorry to all those who are incredibly experienced role players and have a fixed idea about what kind of role play should happen in PS. I totally agree to trying the best we can to follow the setting and context of the game, which I think most people in good faith try to do, however there are many, such as myself, who are less experienced role players. For me, PS has been a really welcoming environment for me to learn about RP, so I feel a bit bad for everyone out there who has been role playing for years and finds the RPs that I'm interested boring or stupid... It's true that I do things that are not conventional, such as RP Thyme as a masseuse. I would hope that these people would at the very worst look at me with mild disregard and let me have my fun, unless of course I am truly ruining the PS world. There are plenty of RPs in PS that I have absolutely no interest in participating in, such as the dwarf haters, the various wars, etc... I should hope that just because I choose not to engage or discuss these events that it does not mean I do not belong in PS.
-
Vampires are not in the game. Vampirism is not in the game. Neither are in the settings. This is just a bunch of people who wanted to have an "RP story" with vampires despite the Planeshift settings.
Agreed, but what exactly is in the game? They gave us the world, and it's up for us to shape it and create the stories. I like the fact that people can take something that isn't totally from the game and turn it into something that [somewhat] fits.
And as for the guild, I had a feeling it wasn't a confirmed piece of the story. Only problem is, we really CAN'T do anything about it. The only thing to make sure stuff like that never happens is to put in a rule, which would also sort of be taking the easy way out. ;)
-
I don't even wanna play this game anymore...vampire's have completely taken over. 3 guilds about this same retarded thing, one of the guilds being led by a group of kids who are trying to be "the biggest and best guild in ps."
-
Ok, I just checked out this Vampire Hunters Guild... and it seems to me that if they are actually serious (which I am leaning more towards the parody angle right now), they have created a new line of vampires that they have devoted themselves to slaying. So in fact, their guild back story is unrelated to the Monstrumis Bloodline guild.
Great. Now that you are both playing in the same universe, there's no reason why the two groups can't interact.
Agreed, but what exactly is in the game? They gave us the world, and it's up for us to shape it and create the stories.
Create stories within the world given. No lightsabers.
I don't even wanna play this game anymore.
This isn't the first time you've said that. :sleeping:
-
Not really, the other times I left were for different reasons. But the vampire thing's just getting out of hand. I'm glad the third vampire guild wasn't serious.
-
Settings are not specific about not being able to RP the existence of creatures like vampires. Again, had there been any direct conflict I think the it would have shown in the guild thread. We have to work from what is specified in the settings on, trying to keep consistance as much as possible. I haven't heard anyone from the settings team, the GM team or the moderators team say that vampirism should not be RPed. It is a grey zone, yes, but you cannot dismiss it just because you think the idea is old. That's a different thing.
-
Settings are not specific about not being able to RP the existence of creatures like vampires.
The settings aren't specific about cell phones either.
-
So? Post an AT&T Guild thread and you'll see the response from the settings team, mods and GMs. That hasn't happened in the case of the vampires. Maybe it's a matter of time, but those things are usually dealt with pretty quickly.
-
So? Post an AT&T Guild thread and you'll see the response from the settings team, mods and GMs. That hasn't happened in the case of the vampires. Maybe it's a matter of time, but those things are usually dealt with pretty quickly.
The devs aren't going to baby you. They don't have the time or the patience to quietly address every little thing we do wrong.
-
Going against settings isn't a little thing...
-
But phones are an anachronism since this is supposed to be medieval times. Nothing about vampires forces them to be modern.
-
after all i had with this vampires rp i can say only one thing, people should realy use brain and they should create something new....
hmm If this vampirism will continue than I swear that I'll create alterchar which will be terminator running arround killing people with his big gun and saying "I'll be back".
-
Socia, honestly I would think of something new if I could. I have all the creativity for it but none of the menas. I'm not exactly well-known in the world, so I wouldn't have much help, and it would be extremely hard to get an RP on its feet. :\ Besides, everyone's so wrapped up in this vampire business that that's ALL I hear EVERY time I go into a tavern and that's almost ALL people will talk about. So naturally if you're not even involved in it you'll never be at this point because they've sort of created a huge bubble around themselved.
But really, I know everyone's complaining, but in the end there's really nothing we can do about it. Sucks but it's true.
-
But thats what I'm getting at. My main concern is that with the upspring of all this out of context roleplay, which I dont feel really belongs in PS, that Planeshift is going to succumb to a mob of kids who simply want to do their own thing and bugger the actuall story of the world. Vampires arent existant in planeshift, again my hats off to the backstory of that guild, but i just have a horrible feeling that with the entrance of vampires goes the settings.
My main concern is that Planeshift is going to go down the plughole....
-
I think it's another phase that is going to blow over. Major kudos to all current vampires that have given real thought to their stories and characters, but these things don't last forever - especially not when many in the community either refuse to play along or actively go against the idea. So let it run its course, let people have some fun with their stories, and then life will continue as it was before. Or, if you're tired of all vampires and wanted to hasten their demise, do just that - seriously hunt them down because you see them as a sort of 'plague'. Roleplay with it, destroy it, and wash your hands :P They'll have fun, and hopefully so will you.
Concerning the settings, there is nothing against "bloodsuckers." But there is nothing "for" them either. The idea does feel old and stale to many, developers included - so the only thing close to vampirism you will see is an HP/MP leech spell in the future, because those are just fun to use. When you use the word "vampire" however, you already make many people roll their eyes - no matter how unique and original your actual version may be, that word has many pop-culture references already that cloud perceptions and expectations.
It's entirely possible to create "bloodsuckers" but give them another name and make them seem -really- outlandish, enough that they don't resemble popular vampires in the slightest - none of that biting the neck, no need of daytime hiding, no "artificial blood" for food; these are all horribly cliche and boring - personal opinion shared by some others.
So I hope they have fun while this lasts, and if they ever want to start something similar up again, I hope they will do a much better job.
-
the cure for vampirism has been found! an ex member of the guild said and i quote 'i pissed the leader off' there it is, the cure!
-
this is what I'm talking about there were found four another cures, there are 4 stories about vampirism.... I and my friends left this RP because of it, you should talk about what is and what isn't .... ok I left this RP i don't have right to talk about anymore i think.
-
I've only seen snippets here and there explaining what wrongs are accidentally being done with the current vampires - perhaps addressing those problems directly either here or in guild threads would be a good idea. It can help the various vampire guilds/clans address issues that bother other players and improve themselves. And I'm not talking about the general idea of roleplaying vampires at the moment, but the way the roleplay has been done that people feel may need a few pointers. If the vampire concept is the only thing folks are bothered by, it's not as bad - as I said, it won't last, and you can always find ways of ignoring their stories (though with some effort) if you really don't want to participate.
-
Some say that people are upset on this vampires idea because of the name, because its completly different thing and only the name is similiar. I went i reed their story and wasn't really suprised, by some innovative solutions and ideas. Its still the same sucking blood thing base. Sure there are thousands of different vampires idas, but they always suck blood, infect with vampirism in similiar way, hide and everything whats around it in this or other form. So current idea is nothing new and if they hid it under new name, i would be even more annoyed tha i'm now.
The solution for us who don't want to participate is to ignore. It is no solution at all Its curse. Great, i can semi-ignore it when i think of myself, but what of my friends wit who i roleplay well, but they decided to roleplay vampires, ignore them too? It is getting complicated, your friends iritated why you so stuborn. Furher, i enter the tavern and hear vampires, conclude, that they must be on drugs or somethink if they tell about such idiotic stories. But later my character finds out that they really suck blood and all the stuff, not posible to be denied?
If you think at it from your char perspective, its total madness for him. And for me its damn end of true rp in PS. And later it isnt that easy to behalve like noting happened.
-
What would you do if you had friends who believed in vampires IRL? Same thing. Call them crazy or something... or you can do the Beanius approach and be unable to notice them. Maybe they could add this to their vampiric characteristics: they can only be seen and heard by a few (I see undead people). That would help those who don't want to have anything at all to do with this.
One thing is for sure though, nobody has the right to shut down other people's plots and fun just because they have different opinions, and we haven't proved there's actual conflict with settings here yet. You don't like the idea, Yliakum's a big world and those involved with the plot can actually play without you (and I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, so please don't take offense), so just walk away.
-
If your talking about vampire hunter lords that was a joke that COV did in guild forums. And you have to just respect there ideas of planeshift. It is constantly evolving.
-
What would you do if you had friends who believed in vampires IRL? Same thing. Call them crazy or something... or you can do the Beanius approach and be unable to notice them.
First its not same as in real, because here we have friends who think the way because they arent crazy, in real they would be really crazy, while here, maybe its you who is crazy, because you deny somethink whats true?
Second (answer already in my previous post)
...conclude, that they must be on drugs or somethink if they tell about such idiotic stories. But later my character finds out that they really suck blood and all the stuff, not posible to be denied?
One thing is for sure though, nobody has the right to shut down other people's plots and fun just because they have different opinions, and we haven't proved there's actual conflict with settings here yet. You don't like the idea, Yliakum's a big world and those involved with the plot can actually play without you (and I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, so please don't take offense), so just walk away.
This is no opinion, this is a fact, vampirism is outside the setting. This has been stated many many times before, just like with dragons, guns and similiar.
Even if you wont find it on the main PS site (just like 90%~99% of other setting), it is fact. The current vampire guild story could be possible in ps setting, but it isn't only and so much because of one thing: vampires don't exist in PS
No matter how much new people want it, they have no right only because they wasn't there a bit longer to hear there is no vampires because it was said so! I suppose, the only reason why Karyuu don't care that much is because their roleplay is on high level and it is hard to banish them just like that. It's tought, but it has to be done or all what was said before about setting won't matter at all anymore. Everybody who will roleplay well dragons, guns and simliar, will have place in PS.
Because i'm not cruel to death ;P I say that if they are really roleplaying so well, i'm sure they can come up with idea which has as much to do with vampirism as Krans with elemental creatures, or golems.
-
Anyone care to explain how vampires got here? What next werewolves???
-
Just because people bring one thing from somewhere else into PS doesn't mean they want to allow anything from anywhere in.
Wereulbernauts perhaps? That would fit better...
-
How can you say there is no vampirism? Technically there should be no life on Earth, but it happened. There should be no vampirism in Yliakum, but it happened. Deal with it. End of story.
EDIT: Werewolves are a different story. Creatures from Earth would not exist in Yliakum I'm sure, but the same time of thing could be possible with some other creature, though that would be going way too far...
-
@ Nikodemus: I've been looking for that specific message "Vampires don't exist in PS" coming from any mod or settings team member and haven't found it yet. If you can find one, I'll totally agree with you but so far, that's the opinion of other testers of the game and I don't give it any more weight than to the opinion of those in favor of this particular RP.
This thing has been highly criticized for it's lack or originality. Yes, it is not new. You're right about that. And I think that is the problem. Claiming that it does not belong in PS will not make it go away. It will be a flawed argument until the devs. officially ban it. And these things are dealt with as they show up, so it doesn't open the door for anything: cellphones, werewolves, dragons, leprecons, smurfs, etc. Things that are in conflict with settings are always noticed and discussed. Vampires have been, and as far as I know, whereas no NPC is a vampire, there's no official statement that claims that a PC can't be one (I did do a search and skimmed through many threads, and I may have missed it, so if anyone knows where it is please do quote it! That'll settle things about this).
-
I would just like to point out that so far no one has given an actual explanation as to why vampires don't fit the PS settings, other than:
a) they just don't
b) they're from popular culture
c) vampires aren't currently in existence in the PS settings on the website, therefore it is not possible for it to be acceptable.
d) vampires are cliche and they're unoriginal and they ruin all the fun for everyone else in the universe (;P ok, a bit of an exaggeration, but hey!)
Earlier, I posted an explanation of how we could conceptualize of vampires in PS. Not as a race or species, but rather as a disease (which could include both a viral infection or a genetic mutation/disorder). In my explanation, the term "vampire" or "vampirism" is a common term used to describe a being that drinks the blood of another being to survive, thus the word vampire can be used to describe any being on PS that drinks blood.
Siteri pointed out that wereulbernauts were a possibility in PS (as opposed to werewolves, since wolves in fact do not exist in PS), and like vampirism, lycanthropy or were-animal, can be understood as a disease that causes one being to turn into another being for a period of time (such as under stress, during a certain time of year, on command, etc). Would people disagree with an RP where a Ynnwn contracted a disease that periodically turned them into an Enki? Or into a Clacker? In fact, I think I remember a few months ago someone who was RPing that they had been turned into an Ulber... as a curse or something (I can't quite remember). Calling a person with such a disease a were-enki or a were-clacker would make sense, since the prefix "were" is used to refer to their transformed status, not of a description of some fixed being.
So yes, concepts of vampirism and lycanthropy exist outside PS, but they are terms that have been used to loosely describe a general behaviour. The word vampire is only associated to "Buffy" or "Dracula" for some people - usually those whose only encourters with vampires is through these popular culture icons in Western society. However, vampirism has been used to describe many other things: Such as... vampire bats, cannibalism, seductresses, etc.
So this is my invitation for someone to offer a really good reason why people in PS should never try to RP a form of vampirism or other mythical disease, as long as they work it within the boundaries of the PS world.
I think so far the Monstrumis Bloodline guild has done an effective job of this. If anyone can point to something they have done in their RP plot or story line that doesn't fit the settings, I would really like to know.
Karyuu is right, vampirism won't last forever in PS, but it if comes up every so often for players to use to advance their characters and add some drama to the lives of the people of Yliakum, then I don't see why there should be calls for erradicating such RPs as long as they are well thought out. Like I said earlier, I just ignore the RP plots that I am not interested in, and I am fairly certain that most people do as well. If you're tired of hearing about the vampires and you're RPing with a friend who is involved with the RP, just roll your eyes and tell your friend that you're tired of hearing of these vampires and want to talk about something else. People do that all the time in the real world (example: "Ok, enough talking about serial killer X, I'm so tired of hearing about it! Let's talk about something less depressing")
-
Well... I know the settings isn't complete yet... so some flexibility is allowed... but a whole new RACE? For crying out loud! Does anyone remember the dragon guild? Yea, they're not here any more. You can not just build things into the settings on a whim. There are things that are given in a world unless stated otherwise: for instance, people need to eat, breath, and sleep. People cook food. People can die. Et cetera, et cetera, so you can roleplay cooking even if they don't talk about it in the settings. You can not, however, make major modifications to the settings. Even if vampires are not a race, you are still making a major addition to the settings and you just can't do that.
Now, at the moment we have vampires. Am I saying they should all be banned? No. That wouldn't be productive. I would encourage them to move towards the end of their plot-line because I can guarantee they will not last forever by any means. As Karyuu mentioned, a lot of the devs really don't like vampires in Planeshift and, as Planeshift becomes more "complete" (yes, I know it will never actually be finished) the tolerance of such settings modifications will decrease. So for now, let the vampires do their thing... but the vampire population should be decreasing, not increasing (in other words, don't start up new vampire plot lines ;) ).
Now, people have asked, "Why are there no vampires in Planeshift?" Up till now, it's been, "It isn't explicitly stated in the settings." Well, here's a more definite answer: the settings team said there aren't any vampires. If you don't think that's fair, you have two options: play without vampires or find another game. This whole argument has gone on for far too long. Oh, and in case you wonder at my source:
[2:10pm] *Cha0s* what's the settings team's opinion on Vampires, vampirism, etc in Planeshift?
[2:12pm] *Xordan* vampires don't exist
[2:12pm] *Cha0s* never will
[2:12pm] *Cha0s* ?
[2:12pm] *Xordan* nope
Now you have an official answer from the settings team. No more argument! :P
-
For you Zhai:
Tha is why there will be no dragons, no horses, no faeries, etc. These, in addition to vampires, are the most overdone subjects in the history of fantasy games.
It\'s just not going to happen. So many discussions have taken place, so many threads, that I\'m amazed there is still an argument to make.
Nothing as mainstream as what Draklar mentioned, pretty much, including werewolves, vampires, etc. Doesn\'t mean you can\'t say that your character arrived from a different world which had all these, but they do not exist in Yliakum, and never will :)
Poor Karyuu, It must be hard to be a mod sometimes and satisfy everybody.
How can you say there is no vampirism? Technically there should be no life on Earth, but it happened. There should be no vampirism in Yliakum, but it happened. Deal with it. End of story.
EDIT: Werewolves are a different story. Creatures from Earth would not exist in Yliakum I'm sure, but the same time of thing could be possible with some other creature, though that would be going way too far...
The vampirism didn't happened in Yliakum. Things doesnt happen just like that in Yliakum, only because some group of people want it. It can't be outside the setting. And i repeat, it doesnt matter why, enough is that it has been said there are no vampires in PS.
Also werewolves is exactly the same thing. But both vampires and werewolves arent creatures from earth, but from peoples minds. Nobody can deny Yliakum freaks who believe in them, but there would be finally good rp reason to call them psychos.
And the end of story was long time ago, before anyone could predict you are going to post
Thyme, in your point c) you got the whole thing the other way around, probably because of lack of reading skill, ignorance or lack of respect to the words of others. Doesn't matter which. The rest of your post has also a lot of flaws, but it is pointles to point out them since maybe 10% of your post brought up something new. Sorry.
-
Well vampirism will be here whatever anyone says, so we should just accept it.
-
Thanks for the info Cha0s
I won't post on vampirism anymore.
:)
-
Well vampirism will be here whatever anyone says, so we should just accept it.
And ignore you, like any ideas about vampires.
-
Farren, the settings team said, "no," very loudly and very clearly. That doesn't mean it needs to vanish immediately, but it needs to start phasing out. Eventually, if it continues to be an issue, the devs probably will institute some sort of outright ban on it. I think it would be better if the vampires made a graceful exit than if they simply ceased to exist one day. ;)
P.S. I think we've said all that needs to be said on this issue... so if everyone could kindly... *looks meaningfully at the Back button on everyone's browser*
-
So, what are we supposed to do about it after all the events related to the vampire RP are over? Forget it ever happened? Or if you're going with the angle that the people who believe in the vampires are insane... would you stay friends with someone you knew was crazy? Will being part of the vampire RP force our characters to lose their friends?!
As for Karyuu saying that dragons/horses/fairies/vampires are the most overdone subjects in fantasy...
Um, I know I've said this before, but... how about HUMANS, ELVES, and DWARVES?! All of which are in PS, and which are way more overdone than at LEAST fairies and vampires, if not dragons and horses. I think that if PS really wants the right to force everything to be original, it should junk all the current races (and rats) and come up with new ones. ALL the races are pretty much similar to something which has been done in loads of fantasy works before. Yes, I know the official race names are not "human", "elf", and "dwarf" (except for the tip note about dwarves that shows up every so often) but that doesn't change what they are.
As someone else once said, if this keeps up we won't be able to call a door a "door" because that's what it is in the real world.
-
Someone wanted to be Octarch, so they just went ahead and did it.
Someone wanted to have dragons, so they just went ahead and did it.
Someone wanted to be able to make pits magically appear underneath people, so he went ahead and did it.
Someone wanted to introduce a new God to the game, so he went ahead and did it.
This group of people wanted to have Vampires. They didn't care about the settings, so they introduced Vampires through their RP. That's really all it is. People doing what they want despite the settings. It's not our job as players to clean it up. It's not our job as players to deal with it or work around it. It's just people who don't know what roleplaying is, doing whatever they feel like.
Roleplaying means that you have a character and that character operates within a certain setting. In planeshift, our characters operate within the planeshift settings. It's that simple.
-
Um, I know I've said this before, but... how about HUMANS, ELVES, and DWARVES?! All of which are in PS, and which are way more overdone than at LEAST fairies and vampires, if not dragons and horses. I think that if PS really wants the right to force everything to be original, it should junk all the current races (and rats) and come up with new ones. ALL the races are pretty much similar to something which has been done in loads of fantasy works before. Yes, I know the official race names are not "human", "elf", and "dwarf" (except for the tip note about dwarves that shows up every so often) but that doesn't change what they are.
I ca answer it
It is not about orginality. It is about Xordan sayng NO ;) which is more or less very true. There are things which can't be answered just like that. You just have to use brain and understand PS setting well. Human brain is much more than a computer CPU and it is capable of this.
-
i can recall a long time ago, some dev mentioning that the game will not include the undead for ethical reasons ( or something similar) if some are offended for religious reasons or simply find such things distastfull, mainly that is good enough reason to omit them from a game that is intended to be available for many people
-
Exactly what about vampires actually CONFLICTS with the setting anyway? If they came up with a good reason, that is consistent with the established rules, for how vampirism got there, I don't see any problem. Yes, the developers said they don't intend to have vampires as an official part of the game, but they didn't set up an official reason why NO form of character that must suck blood to survive is possible. Having vampires may not have been what the creators intended but as far as I can tell it doesn't actually go against the setting on its own.
Maybe we could say that this is sort of the PlaneShift "extended universe", kind of like Star Wars. We have the original setting created by the developers, which is REALLY official, and which will be used in the "official" history of Yliakum, and then we have the official setting PLUS stuff created by players that builds on the original.
(By the way... At least in the form people are using in PS, vampires aren't undead, so no problem there.)
-
(...) Now, people have asked, "Why are there no vampires in Planeshift?" Up till now, it's been, "It isn't explicitly stated in the settings." Well, here's a more definite answer: the settings team said there aren't any vampires. If you don't think that's fair, you have two options: play without vampires or find another game. This whole argument has gone on for far too long. Oh, and in case you wonder at my source:
[2:10pm] *Cha0s* what's the settings team's opinion on Vampires, vampirism, etc in Planeshift?
[2:12pm] *Xordan* vampires don't exist
[2:12pm] *Cha0s* never will
[2:12pm] *Cha0s* ?
[2:12pm] *Xordan* nope
Now you have an official answer from the settings team. No more argument! :P
Thank you. Now it's official: Vampires are not within PS Settings.
-
I think you misread what Xordan wrote... let me paste it here again:
[2:12pm] *Xordan* vampires don't exist
That's not, "we don't plan to implement vampires." That's, "there are no vampires. Zero, zip, nadda, nil, none." There is no way around that. It's their game, not yours. They made the game and they get to make the rules.
As I like to say, without rules, there is chaos. You can't pick and choose which rules you like and just follow those. If the devs say there are no vampires in the game, there are no vampires in the game. You can't have your own modified setting. Everyone works in the same framework and that framework has no vampires. If you want to roleplay vampires on your own server, go ahead, but a server where everyone works from a premise of their own choosing is chaotic, and, in the end, less fun for everyone involved, and Laanx is not that kind of server.
Now, I was trying to hint that we should drop this topic, seeing as we have already had official input... I'll be more direct: there isn't any room for discussion here. If you think there is more to be discussed, the settings team can be contacted individually. I didn't make the decision, and neither did your fellow players. So don't argue with us.
-
True. No more to discuss.
- Question: Should that be allowed?
- Answer: No.
Time to lock?
-
OK, fine. We'll just let the RP finish and then forget it. In Misfile (http://www.misfile.com) terms, we'll throw the papers out of the file. We'll just have to make sure everything is put back the way it was before the whole thing started before we can forget it. (For instance, Farren will have to be brought back to life because his death was an indirect result of the vampire RP.)
-
Someone wanted to be able to make pits magically appear underneath people, so he went ahead and did it.
It was the tavern i did it to -_-
Thank you xordan :)
-
Ok.. if a GM/Dev had posted this in the vampires topic to start with you wouldnt of wasted 5 pages of forums.. As its against the settings the vampires will not carry on..
All due respect to the GMs & Devs.. I dont honestly see them coming up with better RP ideas.. the vampires was to fight bordom.. it worked while we did it.. people enjoyed it mostly.
Closing the vampires isnt a major thing as we agreed we would shut down if it wasnt allowed... But 5 pages of ranting and posting? was it really worth it.. Owch..
Well.. i guess its :oops: For trying to get out yet another RP. Sorry.
Ill be there for the next big RP that conforms with the "Good vs Evil, Good wins" Rp line :)
-
I have tried my best to make the vampires’ existence fit within the settings of Planeshift. If the Devs would like me to just abandon the idea, I will do so immediately.
I quote myself. Why waste your time arguing in here when the Devs could've stopped the idea in the first place? I was more than willing to stop and forget my ideas. To the Devs: Thanks for nothing.
-
"Phase out" is correct.
Siteri, the dev team chooses how many of cliche things they accept into the game - humans/dwarves/elves are to provide players something immediate they might be comfortable with in an otherwise bizarre world. But there's a line - you can't either accept nothing or accept everything, so we choose. And some things get left out for various reasons: personal dislike/preference, gameplay problems, effort disproportional to worth, etc. Why does the PS team want no vampires constantly running around? Because this is the way of the game. Why are glyphs being used for magic? This is how it is built. Why is there a Death Realm instead of instant revival? This is how we want it to be. I'm taking on a more lenient approach because I don't see this as Yliakum-shaking as a player Octarch at this point in time, but people should be careful regardless.
A personal note: people should be really careful with the "popping into existance in Yliakum" backstories. Same as coming from the surface worlds, other universes, etc. If everyone's character came from outside of Yliakum, the only reason to obey the settings would be to interact with NPCs. The Portals are closed (no one has found them or knows where they are), and other gods don't exactly have leeway to snap their fingers and send creatures from their own worlds into the one of Laanx and Talad. It's bad RP to roleplay your Ylian as coming from modern Earth, or roleplay a Lemur from a space-age. And it's "easy RP" to bring in a disease from another world or another creature. "Bloodsucking" does not originate in Yliakum - it just doesn't exist. If your question is then "Why can't such a disease mutate from something else or just appear?" the answer is the same as to the question of "Why aren't Enkidukai and Kran at war with one another."
So again, a please-be-careful. Let the RP come to its climax and then cease - with no long-lasting effects on other characters, or on the world. I think telling people to just stop right now would be too abrupt, so let their stories play out - but soon. With a wide disagreement from a great number in the community, it's best to make sure that everyone has fun instead of a select few whose (a bit awkward) stories now take dominance. I'm not telling anyone to just quit, again. And you shouldn't - it just wouldn't make any sense.
Ellasandra: not all devs read every forum section - Xordan hasn't seen your guild thread, and I wished you luck with a bit of 'personal disapproval'. There have been vampires before that failed each and every time, and I wished that it would be different with your group, that you'd find a way for it to be less cliche and more unique. And that's a difficult thing to do - though you certainly tried.
So to wrap up my own post (leaving the thread open for a bit longer) - this is a subject that you will never find wide agreement on within the community. And there are many things players can do that don't fit within a Settings niche - some harmless and others not so much. Finding out which is which, is just a test of time.
-
Exactly what about vampires actually CONFLICTS with the setting anyway?
You mean besides the fact that there are no vampires?
-
So, what are we supposed to do about it after all the events related to the vampire RP are over? Forget it ever happened? Or if you're going with the angle that the people who believe in the vampires are insane... would you stay friends with someone you knew was crazy? Will being part of the vampire RP force our characters to lose their friends?!
Do whatever suits you best, in the end it doesn't really matter that much, does it? :) If it does, you are going to have a hard time when it comes to another character wipe.
-
As I said in IRC to someone asking me, and I'll expand a tiny bit more too:
Basically, Vampires (and Werewolves) don't and will never exist officially ever. This means that they will never have any physical existance, nor be mentioned in any text ingame, nor in any history, story, event, quest or anything else related to PlaneShift. However, if you want to go around ingame pretending (meaning that you talk about them in chat) they do, then feel free to. You will just be those crazy guys who go around talking about creatures which don't exist.
-
Well, saying "it's that way because the devs said so" doesn't really seem like a good way to create a fantasy world where everything's supposed to be in character, but I guess that's sometimes the way things work. As for the idea Xordan gave of calling those of us who were involved in this RP "those crazy guys who go around talking about creatures which don't exist", that is not a good idea. Being involved in an RP which happens to be against the rules shouldn't cause our characters to be considered crazy, especially if they were perfectly fine before. It sure is a strange delusion when so many people get it at the same time... I'd rather go with "say it happened until everything's back the way it was before, then drop the subject" rather than make my character crazy just to follow the rules.
Anyway, I think we should bring this topic to a more positive and less argumentative point (although as you can tell, I do like a good argument). How about we come up with ways to do something similar to the vampire RP... without using actual vampires.
Basically, the RP boiled down to this: A group of people were cursed by a villain, and forced to kill/inflict severe injury on other people in order to survive. These cursed people have the ability to curse other people the same way. The curse forces those affected by it into hiding, and ruins their lives. Some people try to hunt the cursed people to prevent others from being killed, while some other people try to protect them and remove the curse.
That's really all there is to it. The key here is to figure out a reason why the cursed people would have to attack others that doesn't involve bloodsucking. If we can do that, we can have vampire RP without using vampires. Any ideas?
-
I would recommend not using the word "vampire" in such RP. Again, it has many pop-culture references for a very large number of people, and you would do better to use an original, more suiting name.
-
To my character, who firmly knows that there are no such things as vampires, your characters are crazy. If I went around talking loudly in RL public about vampires as if they were real, people would think I'm crazy. I don't see the difference here. :P Come up with another name which isn't well known (OOC) for a creature of legend and then my character will probably still think you are crazy :P But there will be little OOC influence (which is the biggest problem here) and it can be passed of as rumours of some kind of new creature.
-
Right, it is obvious that the term "vampire" itself is out. Although it's probably not enough just to change the name... otherwise the existing RP could have continued by just telling everyone to call them something else.
I was wondering if there might be some other sort of "life-granting essence" type of thing that could be drained rather than blood. I haven't read about anything like that in the manual, though.
By the way, Xordan, thanks for clarifying that "to your character". Sometimes sanity is a matter of opinion... before it sounded like you were ordering our characters to become raving lunatics just because we participated in a rule-breaking RP. I also realized that sometimes, people who seem crazy might suddenly become normal later and realize how silly they were to believe what they did. Maybe that is what we should do. Maybe we've all been hitting Narure's sriwi...
Oh! I've got it. Here's my convoluted explanation:
Cruentus Monstrumis took an extremely potent drug. Somehow, if a high concentration of it gets into your bloodstream, it causes you to think you're a vampire. Being exposed to it without it entering the bloodstream merely causes you to believe in vampires without actually thinking you are one.
That's why people are "turned" by drinking the blood, because they get the drug in them.
There we go.
-
Well, saying "it's that way because the devs said so" doesn't really seem like a good way to create a fantasy world where everything's supposed to be in character
Holy freaking bejesus. Since the devs are the authors of this world, things ARE the way they are because they say so. THEY WROTE THE SETTINGS.
-
/me goes off to find out who wrote the settings of earth.
They wrote the settings of PS, right? Well, that is OOC information and takes away from the roleplay, so try again Zanzi...
EDIT: Also, it is ended, zanzibar, stop arguing.
-
he argue because you are the problem. You wanted your vampire thingy so much that you was ignoring all other who was first advising and then shouting right in your face to start thinking. You could have asked first about vampires or do simple search before participating in this, somethink so much important for your char sanity ;) But as you was ignoring poeple telling you "no", only because you like vampires so much, that even if you did a search/asked poeple, you would get it the other way around and do the same thing. Pretty sad.
I only feel compassion for those who was working hard on this, and wasn't arguing to deatch without any deeper thought for this lost by default cause.
-
You talk to me as if it was my idea to do this and I don't appreciate it... Try learning things before making assumptions. You know what they say about 'assume'...
-
It's not that we like vampires a lot (I'm not a particularly big fan of vampire stories), but rather that we thought the RP was good despite being against the wishes of the developers. I was totally on the edge of my seat for a lot of it, worrying about whether Duvare was going to be killed. That's good RP!
-
This discussion is becoming a bit too hostile for my taste.
We have our answers and paths to take from here, so let's give it the best we can as this wraps up in-game.