PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: RayvenD on September 27, 2006, 11:49:39 pm
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Scripting roleplay seems to me the same thing as the development team saying things like "the races are at peace and have no enemies except for the wild beasts." It's complete and utter bull***t why the (beep) can't we make our own (beep)ing characters and play them together in a world working almost like our own? Why can't we be enemies? Why must we follow a predefined pattern of action which to anybody with any creativity or character immersion would find completely boring?
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You are badly misunderstanding what I wrote. I apologize if I caused much confusion. What I meant was:
There are no wars between races, and no one race hates another. There can be however individual characters who have a dislike for something or someone and choose to act upon it. To say that PlaneShift does not allow evil characters is false - however you must remember that because the game is still early in its development, it is difficult to play an evil character using game mechanics. This will of course change (and be balanced) in the future. Is disallowing massive wars between races "forcing" people to play certain characters? In a way. But this is the setting of the game and we wish that our players respect and acknowledge it, and find ways to be creative.
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of course those people who have that dislike of somethign can manipulate others into their beleifs, make a cult, guild, faction or just a hateful mob and tryo to rise up into power against their enemies :]
though such events really do need organisation, can't just go roaring around the plaza jumping on every unaware player that fits the description ^_^
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My main issue is that the current setting allows for very little of anything to be done. You just mentioned game mechanics, well at the moment the game mechanics allow for nothing except dueling, spawncamping, obscure quests where npc's don't speak anything even remotely like english or mining gold. Crafting of course is an option but then, the only decent weapons you can craft are considered a bug exploit/cheat so that's out. And you want to discourage powerlevvelling? I'd forget about the players and focus on the game, that seems to be the area in need of work...
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...What do you think we are doing, exactly?
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To be honest i'm not sure...but i'm sure i'll hear about it............soon(tm)
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that's not very nice...
so uhm... who's got a knife? o.o
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It wasn't intended in a rude way. At the moment all I see is restrictions being placed on character development, and gm's throwing their weight around, seems pointless to me. Discouraging PL is all well and good except for the fact that it is the only thing worth doing in the game. I rp the whole time I am there and even that gets old with the lack of decent rp events going on. Even quests would be good if the benefits didnt require PL to be of any real use (glyphs etc.) And btw I have already made 2 full games single handedly, they weren't RPG's they were adventure/comedy games as I feel that is more where my writing talent lies. So yeah, i'm sorry I spoke an opinion, I forgot it is illegal to do so in this community unless it is in line with the one we are told to have.
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I don't understand where your comments are coming from. Have any on the team ever been rude to you, or shut you down in any way? Why are you being so accusatory, and angry?
I have already said that you can have any character you want - evil or good - and the only restriction lies in inventing massive racial wars and hatreds. Does this really place such an enormous limit on your character?
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I guess i'm coming across the wrong way with my posts, i'm not angry in fact far from it. This comes from a discussion my guild were having. A lot of people create character sthinking they can be 'whatever they want to be' when they are in character creation. For example one member of my guild made a character who would be a bard. But then when in game found the game mechanics made their skill choices worthless. Now I know people are going to come back at me with "roleplay it," but seriously, if this game was based entirely around roleplay we'd all be typing in a text window with no need of maps and character models and everything else (which tbh I think would be better if the idea is pure roleplay.) I know the game is still in development, and I understand that. But I dont see the point opf all the "you must be roleplaying" business at the moment, when the only things the game lets you do within it's world are mainly the things which require no roleplay, ie killing a gladiator 50 times a day. Yes roleplay is fun, it would be even more fun if the mechanics of the game could support the roleplay, at the moment I don't feel that they do. Crafting is a good example of what I mean, at the moment you can roleplay a 'master blacksmith' because you can make a super-strong sword with 1000/50 quality. That works until the devs say "this is a bug you cant do it." If we can't do it...why let us? It seems to me that if things are going to be released the devs should test them properly then implement them when they work right. Yes it may mean more server downtime for the regular player, but I for one would be far happier missing a few weeks play if when i was playing everything that was useable in game actually worked right. I've lost count of how many people have ran back and forth from every corner of the current "yliakum" trying to find full chain because they saw Xordan wearing it outside harns, it just seems very unproffessional. I'm not angry, dissallusioned is more the word i thin? Ah well I know what I mean, all I'm saying is the current state of progression I dont think it is fair to be so uptight about roleplay and powerleveling etc, it seemsstupid when the game mechanics allow for little else. Yes, it is a RPG, BUT it is also a computer game, the game features and mechanics matter aswell. It seems like this community acts as an elitist RP authority, yet almost every person I have spoken to on the issue in game says this is their first RPG. I'm finished.
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This wiill be my last post here on the subject - anyone, please PM me if you wish to take it further.
I know the game is still in development, and I understand that. But I dont see the point opf all the "you must be roleplaying" business at the moment, when the only things the game lets you do within it's world are mainly the things which require no roleplay [...]
We are trying to build the community as well as the game, and the type of people we are trying to attract for the most part are roleplayers, not people who are coming in to kill sprites on a screen whenever the urge strikes. If you don't roleplay, you're not going to be kicked out however. You just have to be careful and not interfere with anyone's RP through your OOC conversations or actions. So even though this game doesn't allow you to have the working skills or items or similar that your RP may require, we hope people RP as best as they can in the meantime - because at the end of it all, we would not want to turn completely around and "suddenly" enforce RP when the game is "finished."
Yes roleplay is fun, it would be even more fun if the mechanics of the game could support the roleplay, at the moment I don't feel that they do.
Perhaps not to the extent you and we all would like. But many people have fun regardless - they build amazing stories, have great adventures, mature, grow, evolve. You don't need game mechanics to RP - we just prefer to have them - but until more of the game is finished we would like our players to use their imaginations and merge "text-based" RP with what is currently available in the game, a little more with every update until all actions can be carried out in the game without pretending.
It seems to me that if things are going to be released the devs should test them properly then implement them when they work right. Yes it may mean more server downtime for the regular player, but I for one would be far happier missing a few weeks play if when i was playing everything that was useable in game actually worked right.
Please don't forget that you are a tester here first, and a player second. We are not "releasing" a game. We're making one, and your aid in hunting down bugs, reporting them, and possibly even helping make fixes is vital. You are playing on a test server, and you are here to help us pinpoint problems. This is a very important point.
I've lost count of how many people have ran back and forth from every corner of the current "yliakum" trying to find full chain because they saw Xordan wearing it outside harns, it just seems very unproffessional.
We are not professionals, RayvenD. The great majority of us are still learning. If you believe that you can manage an MMORPG better, give it a try and report back. Even though we always want to aim for professionalism, we do not always have the luxury of succeeding in a volunteer-based, hobby project such as this. Cut us some slack every now and then, because we're not being paid to do this and are simply contributing because we love doing it.
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At the moment all I see is restrictions being placed on character development, and gm's throwing their weight around, seems pointless to me.
Whoa, I can't for one minute believe Gm's discourage roleplay. Maybe being told no to a certain idea or character trait that doesn't work within the rules might be taken as "throwing their weight around" but that doesn't make it so. Saying no to something that goes against rules is within our right and is in no means power tripping. GM's have nothing to do with the roleplay. They are there to help police the game and make sure that rules are being followed that Talad and the dev's have laid down or hepling players with either the mechanics of the game, questions about the world, and/or throwing events for players.
If in fact you do feel there is a GM who is "trowing their weight around" then you need to report it and perhaps even record the log. /report should do the trick. As far as I know Gm's are not immune to the /report command. If I am wrong someone will surely correct me. No Gm should have an attitude that what they say goes unless we are following the rules.
:) Seriously though, in this whole time I have played in PS I have never seen a Gm purposely try to stop roleplay. Sure Gm's have made stupid mistakes but as I have read all over the forums and what the community really needs to start understanding, is we Gm's are human to and are not immune to mistakes. This game is here to encourage roleplay and as far as I know it is one of the most important things to Talad when it comes to planeshift. Roleplaying was one of the reasons this game was created, I read some where that this game was intended to take roleplay to a higher level, because there is no other game out there with this amount of roleplay going on within the community. People from all over the world and who have played many roleplaying games have said this game is very unique for the roleplaying the community provides. That is pretty amazing for a game that is just alpha, with very little for team members. imagine what it will be like when it is a finished project.
Discouraging PL is all well and good except for the fact that it is the only thing worth doing in the game.
Discouraging roleplay is not good at all. If that was the case, I would not have stuck around for as long as I have. I came to this game green and never roleplayed before in my life. I stay with this game because I adore roleplaying and enjoy that this is different from any other game I have ever played.
....... and karyuu beat me to most of my post so I will gladly bow out now with hopes that people will truly see that the GM's are not the bad guys.
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.... Is it really nessessary to put these aruements on my thread? Not to be rude. And you really shouldn't complain just cause this game is an RPG. You like to PL in games and play them only to PL? Go play Runescape if thats the case and come back when the game's done. Leave us people who apprisiate what the devs have made for us already to kep apressiating. (I cannot spell that word) I'm not nessessarly directing this at anyone. It's just my oppinion.
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Apologies, Nerule. The posts have been split into their own topic :}
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Discouraging PL is all well and good except for the fact that it is the only thing worth doing in the game.
Sorry, I just had to say one thing. Try to roleplay, meet new people. I think you'll find PLing gets boring. \\o//
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Scripting roleplay seems to me the same thing as the development team saying things like "the races are at peace and have no enemies except for the wild beasts." It's complete and utter bull***t why the (beep) can't we make our own (beep)ing characters and play them together in a world working almost like our own? Why can't we be enemies? Why must we follow a predefined pattern of action which to anybody with any creativity or character immersion would find completely boring?
It's called the settings. Every roleplaying game has settings. :sleeping:
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Discouraging PL is all well and good except for the fact that it is the only thing worth doing in the game.
Sorry, I just had to say one thing. Try to roleplay, meet new people. I think you'll find PLing gets boring. \\o//
I roleplay the whole time i'm online ask anybody who has met me in game. I was pointing out that powerlevelling is really the only thing the game mechanics allow for in the sesne of actual computer gameplay. If you read my posts I also have already pointed out that i rp more than anything else. Don't assume when you don't read the whole thread your commments will have any relevance.
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restriction lies in inventing massive racial wars and hatreds.
Ah, but isn't that what our world is fueled by?
<Insert contriversial (sp?) opinion here>
I agree with quiet a few of your points RayvenD....or opinions, I guess.
Robinmagus.
EDIT: Grammaaeearrr
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My main issue is that the current setting allows for very little of anything to be done. You just mentioned game mechanics, well at the moment the game mechanics allow for nothing except dueling, spawncamping, obscure quests where npc's don't speak anything even remotely like english or mining gold. Crafting of course is an option but then, the only decent weapons you can craft are considered a bug exploit/cheat so that's out. And you want to discourage powerlevvelling? I'd forget about the players and focus on the game, that seems to be the area in need of work...
The game is in development. Either test it now or come back in 2 years time when more work has been done and you are enabled to do more in game. You're correct in saying its hard to do much in game, but the simple fact is there is alot of work to be done on the game yet, and complaining about an issue that the development team clearly understand isnt likely to get it fixed any faster.
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There are waaaay too many Deus Ex Trucido members posting in this thread at the same time.
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I understand what RayvenD is trying to say. I mean i can see that he is bored with all the constant killing and usual RP.
I had the problem a few weeks back, basically i just teamed up with people and went on whatever adventures they were doing.
My guild, Elemental Light, IS AWESOME, i mean in every way. Anytime i get bored i always have people their to cheer me up.
I've actually completely stopped training my character, i only kill now to gain money for my guild.
I guess, if you are bored of killing and don't know what to do, get into a good guild and play games together.
Entertain each other and enjoy each others company. :thumbup:
If you truly still find yourself bored :sleeping:, it probably means you are in the wrong Guild, because if you were in a truly fun guild you would probably never be bored.
I agree with RayvenD about releasing new material for RP and that it is really slow.
But the thing is we have no control over this aspect and we have to leave it to the Dev team.
I've actually become VERY patient thanks to this game lol, whether that's good or bad is up to you. :woot:
Oh, and if worst comes to worst, Go find Unar, she's fun to talk to and has amazing RP.
She kept me in discussions and awesome RP for a good week.
It comes at a price though, lol ;D, you'll have to let her whip your butt, which she will inevitably do.
I'm getting my revenge UNAR!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
~~Datruth
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It seems to me that if things are going to be released the devs should test them properly then implement them when they work right. Yes it may mean more server downtime for the regular player, but I for one would be far happier missing a few weeks play if when i was playing everything that was useable in game actually worked right.
Just like to add, would you rather the devs tests for weeks instead of getting on with fixes, new stuff ?Me I am happy testing for them, so they can get on with the improvements.
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meh, the whole Haunt-Unar thing never did much for me. It's good if people are having fun with it though.
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I'd like to know how power leveling is not a form of role-play. Did not nearly every magnificent hero of literature not have a back-story that included intensive training to the detriment of everything else? Did not Conan push the waterwheel until he achived his massive strength? Just how did Lancelot gain his proficiency with the sword and Robin Hood his with the Bow? To my mind anyone who doesn't have the time or inclination to at least give a nod to training is cheating. I don't say you have to spend all your time training but at least make it appear that when you are off-line you could be training. Either that or let's do away with training altogether and let us just create whatever character we want. We will be as Gods of that I am certain.
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The real difference between powerleveling and roleplay here is that even killing things nonstop for hours needs to be in-character. Your character can push him or herself to the end of all endurance hunting the Ulbernauts day in and day out. And no one needs to know that you may be doing it just because you as a player want to relax and smash some monsters - but when other characters approach you and begin a conversation, you need to understand that an RP reason for your actions is necessary as well. You are playing a character, and that character needs reasons to be in the hills killing wild beasts. (Preferrably a reason more in-depth than "I feel like it.")
The type of powerleveling we are trying to discourage here is the monotonous killing and "leveling" of a character with no real RP involved. We are trying to discourage people from boasting that "I have all my skills maxed." You don't have your skills maxed - your character is simply in top condition through the rigorous study he or she has done.
I no longer even understand how powerleveling entered this topic.
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Powerleveling entered the topic because Rayven said it's the only thing the game mechanics allow and is therefore the only thing worth doing. ;D
I disagree with him, but I couldn't keep my mouth shut and had to answer your question. :whistling:
All Karyuu is asking for is that you stay in character when someone approaches you (camped on a rogue) and says, "hi, whatcha doin'?" She doesn't want you to respond, "I just downloaded this computer game and think it's fun to kill this rogue to gain money and points so that I can be 1337." She wants you to maybe explain your motivation for doing so (if your character is so inclined).
lol
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The problem to my mind is that camping in the arena has become a culture in and of itself. People act differently there, talk differently, are motivated by different things... I find that people are generally ruder there and are more likely to grief and even hate others, usually for silly reasons. It's not a good place to meet people, and it's very rare to find any actual roleplaying there. It's also somewhat outside the settings - gladiators just appearing out of thin air, always in the same spot? So I think that camping in the arena is OOC. It's not wrong necessarily, but it is OOC.
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Yeah, there is ooc on almost every step, what is changing as the game is developed. But currently it is sometimes hard to find a good ic explanation. Afterall we want to have fun, also as players. I don't know if there is someone who is doing somethink against themselve most of the time, only for their character to act the way he/she should.
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Personally when I feel like smashing things, I turn to another game :] There are plenty of beautiful and free and 3D hack-'n-slashers out there. Killing things in PlaneShift over and over isn't all that interesting.
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and it gets tiresome as well ;)
ahahah...im not all into rping, or powerleveling..i do cause i want to get pretty stuff basically
but i have discoverd a great community (other than the few bad apples that insist on being creeps) and i adore the game...
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Personally when I feel like smashing things, I turn to another game :] There are plenty of beautiful and free and 3D hack-'n-slashers out there. Killing things in PlaneShift over and over isn't all that interesting.
Yeah, you're going to have to recomend me something.
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Silk road is pretty decent for killing tings, pretty good concept of skills aswell. little rp but still, i enjoy playing...
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I was going to mention SR as well. Or download the Lineage II client from their own website and find yourself a free server. With free servers the gameplay is commonly altered by upping the experience rates, the monetary drop rate, and the item drop rate, making higher-quality gear easier to obtain. There's also HERO Online, and... actually, Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_MMORPGs) to the rescue.
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Silk road is pretty decent for killing tings, pretty good concept of skills aswell. little rp but still, i enjoy playing...
yeah i played silkroad during the ps updates...not to kill things but to get the pretty armor...its alright but there is absolutely no story and absolutely no communication/rp
so it is good for jsut plain fighting
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Meh. Soldier of Fortune 2 doesn't require levelling up, so I think I'll stick with it instead.
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appearing out of thin air? Game mechanics doesn't have to be rp'ed as you see them. Game mechanics now are only for testing, only a few mechanics can be rp'ed, like /say /me /group /tell /my /tell /me and /my
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Well, I don't know. To me it is all role playing as I am doing nothing of the things my character is doing. I am controling my character of course but I personally know very little about swordplay though my character is quite proficient. My conversations tend to be pretty mundane, I only share OOC personal information with "friendlies". I do chat about the game interface and different equipment that can be found which is itself a bit OOC but is no different than talking to that guy you see all the time in the locker room at the gym about the various gym equipment and different exercise routines. This kind of talk could be written off by the rabid role players as some kind of meta-physical nonsense espoused by some strange sect. But it is more likely to engender a flaming PM or a /report.
When the idea is to learn about the world flowery language and arcane phraseology is counter-productive but the knowledge is essential to be able to play effectively. I, personally, find games more fun when I can optimize my play so as to always progress in the quantifiable aspects.
What happensfo me is that for the first while I get annoyed by my lack of progress due to ignorance of game mechanics. I may have periods of fun when things go well and I may make a few 'friends' who are more experienced than me and offer advice or I may stand around in newbie town whining and complaining about "this stupid game" (whichever game it is.) Then after a while I start to get the hang of the game and start offering advice to other less experienced players hopefully enhancing their play. Finally when I have experienced nearly everything the game has to offer several times or more I get bored and move on until there is new material to enjoy. I played The Fourthcoming (T4C.com)for six or seven years more or less, whenever there were free servers to play on. I also was an official beta tester for them for a while and had access to the test server.
I have to say I have never once been tempted to pursue an ingame love affair or try to get married which seems to be one of the ever popular role playing themes. To me this is just stupid. When that helpful stranger told you two to "get a room" he didn't mean take your computer with you. :o However aside from standing apart and making the odd snide comment in context I don't try to prevent anyones elses fun. Maybe I don't want to have great adventures like silly neck biters in the sewers thrust upon me, maybe I just want to live simply and do what I do. All that high-falootin stuff are for the lords and the ladies which, according to the setting don't exist in the democratically elected government. It is just rich wannabes putting on airs. Half of them don't even have the money they play at having but social climbing fraud is a valid role-play device too. And if they delude themselves that is fine too; just don't try to make me believe it, you won't succeed.
but when other characters approach you and begin a conversation, you need to understand that an RP reason for your actions is necessary as well. You are playing a character, and that character needs reasons to be in the hills killing wild beasts. (Preferrably a reason more in-depth than "I feel like it.")
Why do I have to justify my behaviour to others? How is it any of their business why I do what I do? Maybe they are just busybodies looking for ways to spoil MY fun. Are you saying an anti-social, mind your own business type personality is unsuitable for role play?
I may have my reasons for spending all that time hunting Ulbernauts ( although I don't do it what with the running attack fall off the earth bug ... has it been fixed?) but why do I have to answer to strangers? I used to enjoy it before because it was challenging. I don't have to tell you that's why I do it however. If a GM asks me in their official capacity I'll be more than happy to talk about it but that is noot in context is it?
As far as other games go I do play other games as the mood hits me. I have been playing a lot of SRO lately despite their crappy rootki gameguard. I played a lot of anarchy online last winter. SRO is pretty boring all I do is press 4321 4321 4321 4321 until my fingers start to bleed. but at least the scenery is fresh. I got pretty tired of Anarchy online too. I keep coming back here because I am preparing to abandon Winblows someday. Anyway I've been composing this for about an hour now, more than I intended so I will let it go at that. hope you didn't glaze over at the sheer length.
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Why do I have to justify my behaviour to others? How is it any of their business why I do what I do? Maybe they are just busybodies looking for ways to spoil MY fun. Are you saying an anti-social, mind your own business type personality is unsuitable for role play?
I meant that if you are asked and you feel like giving an explanation, you generally need to have an IC one. A reply of "Bugger off" is just as acceptable as "I hate these things... their stink must be annihilated from Yliakum." What isn't acceptable is "lolz, im gonna sellz ph4t l3wt l8r!"
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Well I don't know about hunting in the wild, sometimes it is hard to find IC reasons and sometimes you just want your character to become stronger so you can atleast fight something else for a change.
The rats in the sewers I useally play as pestcontrol however. Having the merchants pay for the ratloot becuase that way the ratpopulation is kept in check. Sounds about right and obviously it would be the new people who would be doing this job.
As far as the gamemechanics go.
It's true we are still in development but I do have to agree the gamemechanics are very much aimed for things like powerleveling and not to roelplaying.
I mean gamemechanics that would aim roleplaying would be getting all the races to have their skins to have more clothing and more things like the beermugs so you can show more how you feel.
However it has been stated these don't have priority. So the question arises if you don't want a WoW clone that will probably be out of date by the time it's even nearing completetion. What does PS offer that WOW doesn't? How does PS show it's difference of focus?
Then one can really only show at the rules enforced on the roleplaying enforced by the GMs, because gamemechanicwise games like WoW give you a lot more emoticons and such to actually use in roleplay in my opinion.
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Pestilence, we simply do not have enough artists on the team to give you every character/race model and all the hundreds of RP items that everyone would like along with dozens of emotes. I could count our team artists on one hand.
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Only thing i can say to that karyuu is...get more artists? why do they have to be amazing at what they do to be valuable to the team. you currently have artists of a high standard for the game. why not get artists who maybe cannot model a character but can easily model an item as part of the team? it is easy as hell to model a mug or somthing of similar stature, so why only have artists who can model the great things? it makes no sense saying "artists must be of a high enough standard" etc when certain things do not NEED a very high standard of skill. somethings can be modelled brilliantly by less experienced artists because they require very little skill to be achieved. surely a few artists to do less complicated models and textures would allow the better artists to work on the more advanced things and things would get finished quicker. or maybe i'm wrong?
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Or maybe we don't have a whole lot of talented people applying, or maybe Talad is lacking the time to manage them all at once and immediately, and maybe we feel that we need to concentrate on something other than tiny little items?
If people are getting impatient, please learn to program or do artwork, and join.
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Don't get me wrong Karyuu if you say the devs that do things like make those skins are already doing a lot I will believe you, but that doesn't mean the focus right now is on making a game. The building of a community and a setting to roleplay in is second.
I mean it has said many times on this forums PS is a game were roleplaying is actually expected, that this is where PS would be different from other games, but besides the rulings on what is within the setting or not I sometimes do wonder what PS is doing to make those words true. It is a justified concern and one you will get if that is what you say to get people here in the first place. And some people even use to shut people up.
I mean I'm not here becuase I expected PS to become a replacement for WoW. Then I would have gotten the client and gone to a free server or something or I would have gone to play guildwars.
I'm hear to have fun with my friends. And fun I do have, but sometimes I get the feeling this community isn't great becuase of thee gamedevelopment, but more like survived it somehow.
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we survive becase thats what happens in rl...if you dont have money to go see a movie, you improv...find something else to do
jsut because you dont ahve everything you want doesnt mean you cant use your imagination to find something to do...you can always rp doing somehting that you couldnt do normally...
i dunnos, just chill out...dont play the game if you ahve such problems with it...
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I'm hear to have fun with my friends. And fun I do have, but sometimes I get the feeling this community isn't great becuase of thee gamedevelopment, but more like survived it somehow.
This game survived because of the community. If the community was 'not great', the game may have died out long ago.
The game development is exellent in my opinion. I mean look at what we have now! Compared to back in the MB days, and early CB. Remember, the Devs do all of this in THIER own SPARE time. They have other things to do too in thier lives, but look at what we get! Constant and regular updates. The Devs are doing overtime in my eyes.
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i agree \\o//
thank you Dev's :D :D