PlaneShift

Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: tssthorn on October 02, 2006, 10:00:16 pm

Title: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 02, 2006, 10:00:16 pm
The Council of Darkness

[story]

Swivles ran away from his problems and whent into the Stone Labyrinth trying to find the
surface. He got lost and could not find his way out. He found a dead end and took hostage
there. When he got hungry he would only go so far from his new home. He ate rats raw and
made sure he finshed it till the bones where dry. He drank from a leak above the ceiling.
He began to grow tired and decided he needed to continue on.

He was not sure how long he has been in the Stone Labyrinth. He came across a hole in the ceiling
and decided to climb up to see what he could find. Swivles wonderd aimlessly and came across
a dark and weary chest.

There was a perpetual gust of air. He looks at the chest and his hair just stood up as it
gave him the chills. He was curious to see what was inside but he thoult best he should not.
He decided he would stay there to get some sleep. While he was sleeping he heard somthing
strange. It sounded like voices. He quickly stood up to find out where it was coming from
hoping he would find his way out. He realized the voices he was hearing was not coming from
where he had enterd .. but the dead end where the chest was sitting.

He became very curious and put his ear up to the chest and the voices stoped. He began to
get confused but also became more curious. He decided maybe he should find out what is in
the chest. He looks around and then looks back at the chest and takes both his hands and
slides the top off. He put his head over the top to peak inside. I huge gust of air came
blowing out of the chest. He began to hear screams, Children crying, and being hurt.

As he was standing there lsitening to what was going on his fur began to fade to the color
black. A mark on his right arm appeard. It was a mark of evil. His thoults darkened.

Swivles looked around and looked at himself and took a better look at the chest he just
opened. He moves the chest and on the back there where carvings. It read ...

"Who ever shall open this chest will be forever filled with all the darkness and all the
hatred the consumes this world".

Swivles just laughed and continued on his way out. While he was traveling somthing kept
telling him whear to go and he soon found his way out of the Stone Labyrnth. He looked
at the Bronze Doors and there was a Enki standing there. He glazed over at the Enki and
asked what her name was.

She spoke in a silent manner "My name is Lilie". Swivles headed toward Lilie and grabed
her. He then took his hand and placed it on her chest. As he did this he transferd some
of his power into her, along with some of the darkness and hatred he received from the
chest. Swivles then spoke "You are now and forever my slave, you will bow before me and
do what ever I tell you to do". Lilie looks at Swivles and nods. "You are now the Delepitore"
Swivles anounces. Lilie nods once again.

Swivles parts away from Lilie and continues on. Swivles and Bradd Crosses paths. Bradd looks
at Swivles and makes a remark "Hey you look like you would be fun to kill". Bradd was once
again in his darkend state after he had been poisoned by Sozedie. Swivles walked toward him
and smiles and said "How would you like to join me"? Swivles gazed into Bradd's eyes and
it became impossible for Bradd to decline. Bradd nods and says "I will bow before you!"
Swivles continued on and said "You are now the Ammon.

Someone mysterious
walks up to Swivles and asks why he is doing this. Swivles begins speaking "As long as there
is hate and darkness in the world I shall continue to to destroy life that creates such things".
The unknown charecter then says "But are you not creating the same hate and darkness?"
"Yes, but while I am doing this I am getting rid of more hate and darkness then I am
creating. So back away and let me continue".
Swivles continues on looking for the rest of The Council of Darkness.

[Goals]
Spread Darkness and hatred through out Yliakum
To bring a rise in evil
To free everyone from there non sense of happiness

[Ranks]

9 ) Lucifage - High Command *Swivles*

8 ) Delepitore - Sorcery Enlightement *Lilie*

7 ) Ammon - Domination *Bradd*

6 ) Asmodeus - Lust

5 ) Sonnielion - Hate

4 ) Verrine - Health

3 ) Verrier - plants and herbalism

2 ) Ronwe - Knowledge

1 ) Minyan - Worshiper and Supporter

[About]
This is just an idea .. not sure how many would be interested in RPing a true evil charecter.
But this guild works different then most. Ranks 9 - 2 can only be coverd by one individual.
Those 8 make The Council of Darkness. Once you join you cannot leave. Unless your just a
Minyan. Minyans also have more leeway on how evil they RP. There can also only be 10 Minyans
at once .. if one leaves they will be replaced. The way I see it is if any one is interested
then post here of which rank you would like to play the role as ... I suggest using an alt.

Reason I say use an alt is because you will be RPing evil full time with that charecter.
If you decide to be a Minyan then you don't have to RP evil full time as you just worship
and support The Council of Darkness.

8,5, and 3 are Female roles. Rest are Male roles. 8 and 7 are still available, the story
and the names are just an example.

I know I had to have forgotten a few things so, if you have any questions about somthing
go ahead and ask ... also any ideas would be supported as well. Thanks!
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Robinmagus on October 02, 2006, 10:05:28 pm
Yay! Fill the world with [IDEA]'s !!!

Anyway, I liked the story and stuffs. Real nice.  :thumbup:

Go evil guilds  :devil:
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 02, 2006, 10:33:41 pm
Well I guess it's less of an idea and more like it's going to happen ... but I posted it here to get feedback on it and see if anyone is interested in playing any of the roles before I go and create it. Also that 10 minyan thing may not stay that way ... may make it 20 ... not really sure. Oh and thanks ... I liked the story too ... though I kinda would as I wrote it lol. If no one is intersted in any of the rolls then I go huntin for people to play the rolls.  :devil:
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 12:34:53 am
I'm VERY for starting an evil guild, we need MANY more of those in PS. However, I'm not sure about the whole "demon" thing. Who says that PS has demons? They don't have angels or demons that I know of, etc. etc. Try thinking that out a bit more. Admittedly I haven't read your complete post, when I do I'll give more input.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 12:37:54 am
I like your rank names, but not much seems original. Another evil guild.

Good luck. =P
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 01:09:01 am
Well first of all Demons have been around for ever. Second PS does not have angels or demons because no one RPed them, course not saying no one ever RPed demons but still. No matter what culture no matter what time there have always been demons so saying there are non makes no sense as they have been around for ever. Not to mention who says are world has demons ... have you seen one? No, didn't think so. Second for originality .. please tell me what's not origenal about it? Need as much input as I can get.

Myself I happen to like the idea as this is not going to be some crap evil guild where the people in it are not evil ... reason I say this is because that is a rule, which is the other reason I tell people to make an alt if they want to join so they can play evil full time and not be afraid of being hated.

Oh and ya one last thing ... Demon can be described as evil as an angel can be described as good ... so just because it says demon does not necessarly mean there demons.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 01:14:13 am
Just what you said. You think you're being original, but there are millions of guild acting like they're "another race" or something. Vampires, demons, wolves, whatever.

Also, your rank system, even though it has good names, is a little...stupid. You have gender-based ranks, which aren't very popular. You need to have ranks based on power, or intelligence, or something of that person. I'm not saying to go by stats, but how they roleplay. Just slapping a female into some random rank won't do you much good, and especially reserving 1 rank for 1 person...don't do that. At least have about 3 people in one rank, like a council, or a group of sub-leaders.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 01:24:38 am
Reread my last post i edited it hehe. Also the ranks are not ranks at all .. this is not just some guild this is more like what it says it is ... a council. Also the ranks ... I did them for a good reason like this ... and that is for RP not to gain ranks. Each rank pretty much has it's own unique charecter. I think it adds more to RP then it does for what people want, and i think if tryed it would make for great RP. Everyone seems to have somthing to complain about the ranks no matter what it is ... even if it completly based and done on RP.
Also if no one likes the idea of not being able to gain ranks then what kind of RPer are they?

Also vampires and warewovles have not even anything close to do with demons as they can take control of soone ... which is the case here pretty much ... second they can take form of any race ... and third technacally there not even a race. Also vampires and wearwoves are not either .. while yes i do kinda think vampires and wolves are stupid as well but in no way are they there own race and can be RPed by any race. Your just saying thigs that make no sense because on a personal level you don't like the idea.

Hehe I can't let this go, I thik your comment just was really stupid as words have emaning but don't neceisarly make them what it says. I could call somone hookifusa and it means evil rain of sunshine ... there just words to describe somone. Religeous people when they see a person that looks are acts evil they say there eiher a demon or they have demons in themm .. have they seen a demon? Nope so basically it's just a description so get over it. In no attention did I actaully mean demons like red guys with horns ... your just thinking through it to much.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Nurahk on October 03, 2006, 01:47:27 am
Another evil guild?

There are no other evil guilds.  There are ideas for them, but, no truly evil guilds that I have seen.

Evil characters, yes.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 01:58:13 am
And how do you define "evil?"

Are you just going to talk about it? Randomly kill people by spamming duel messages? Act like you're stealing someone's purse? Raise your hand and say someone magically died by your evil god powers?
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 02:02:09 am
Ummm nooo... first of all if people RP correctly it will work out nicelly if not then it's your fault. But no I was thinking more along the lines of a mass take over and wars and all that good stuff. Such as if you read the story you can see Bradd is able to control anyone and turn them into his slave ... but will people allow me to RP that ... no .. so you better give me some leeway.

We all know how hard it is to RP evil, and I would never make anyone be able to be unbeatable ... I give all my charecter limits. Such as Bradd being an alchemist he can only use alchemy 2 times in a week. Now if you call that ultimate power well then you need to rethink ... in no way am I saying an evil guild has to be unbeatable and god like. Ya sure they wil have powers but they have there limits as well. But you have to rmeember people don't alwyas RP accordinly .... If we could do that then we would have no problem with evil guilds. And you still need to give a bit of leeway because of this.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 02:10:23 am
I am restraining myself the best I can from saying something highly insulting here. Let's just say that now that you have clarified your idea, I think it's miserable, and you a lousy, irresponsible, and immature roleplayer to say the least. (please notice I said roleplayer, not person). And that's restraining myself. To be fair, you may just be extremely ignorant.

edit: You just don't seem to care what anyone thinks or has said, despite the fact that we obviously have more experience, at the very least in PS, than you do. The things you are doing, and the excuses you give for them are... well, pathetic.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 02:15:23 am
What? Oh come on. Lousy RPer ... thanks you obviously don't know me in game. I have been told i was a great RPer ... I used to be the one who said i was a bad RPer and they all said no actaully your pretty good at it.  Well anyway sorry if I seem to be mean ... really im only stubborn. I admit im stubborn. I don't see how im a bad RPer though and your the first to ever say that. Good job in making me feel like crap.  :( ... Dang it im not no new comer .. and my excuses are my beleifes you just made me feel like crap with out even explain why you think im immature .. second i was the first to be attacked ..cause i read one of my posts and niticed it could be taken the wrong way so I reedited it but was to late... I was asking for more suggestions if you go and reread. I was also trying to share my point of view.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 02:18:25 am
Thank you. I did my best. Perhaps now that you have no self esteem left you'll try and learn from others. No, I'm not saying that I am the best or awesome by any means, I'm saying you need to try and pay attention to the things other people are saying. Suno and me have given some good comments and advice, and you've thrown them out the window because, as you said, you're stubborn. Try taking some advice, be open to what other people are saying. "There is wisdom in a multitude of counselors."
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 02:20:36 am
Ummm nooo... first of all if people RP correctly it will work out nicelly if not then it's your fault. But no I was thinking more along the lines of a mass take over and wars and all that good stuff. Such as if you read the story you can see Bradd is able to control anyone and turn them into his slave ... but will people allow me to RP that ... no .. so you better give me some leeway.

We all know how hard it is to RP evil, and I would never make anyone be able to be unbeatable ... I give all my charecter limits. Such as Bradd being an alchemist he can only use alchemy 2 times in a week. Now if you call that ultimate power well then you need to rethink ... in no way am I saying an evil guild has to be unbeatable and god like. Ya sure they wil have powers but they have there limits as well. But you have to rmeember people don't alwyas RP accordinly .... If we could do that then we would have no problem with evil guilds. And you still need to give a bit of leeway because of this.

You're not a bad RPer, you probably are good at acting in character...it's just what you're taking the role of that's a little...childish. This has been tried many times before. Some new evil cult comes, wants to wage war with everything and everyone...all that stuff. It's just gotten so old. Please have more of a background here. Wanting to wage war on everything because you want to get rid of happiness, makes you think "Ok, after we've waged war with everyone and destroyed everything, what's left? What are we going to do?"

Right now what I see in this guild is that you just want to fight, and completely ignore a history. Sure, you have one (I think...didn't read the entire post), but "wanting to wage war on everything" is just like the Guild Warriors' excuse saying honorable or something, then fighting and mass dueling whenever they felt like it.

To be honest, you should remake this guild saying it's more of a...fight club? I don't know. But unless you get more of a point in your cause, that's all it'll be seen as - a bunch of mass duelers who think they're really evil because they kill. Right now this is more of an annoying guild, than evil guild.

Sorry.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: daehaz on October 03, 2006, 02:25:04 am
Evil characters should do evil things, not say they are evil. the idea of a council sounds good. Maybe each council member could get to choose what kind of demon they want to be and not just stick to the ones left to assign, after all, if they are all equal in authority and they should have their own history by the time they join in (having RPed and grown for a while) they should know what they would be bringing to the guild. maybe it'd be best if all "empty" council chairs remained nameless until someone comes to claim them.

Now, maybe this idea isn't far from the Culmi Navarre (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25784.0) and they can join forces. i find them both interesting as i have been trying to build my own organization. if it helps in any way, i realized i was making the mistake of drawing the organization i wanted to create as an extension of my character and that ended up being too limiting for other characters to join in and find their place in it. so, i like the idea of a council (although i find the name a bit Justice Leagueish/god-RP alert) where different evil characters with their own agenda can join forces and compromise a bit in order to prevail. A sound evil character takes time and effort to build and it's a shame to see their potential wasted due to players not willing to compromise. For what matters, I am. Feel free to PM me if you need help.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 02:28:58 am
Why demons? Demons have no place in PS. Not only are they not specifically mentioned, they don't work with the system of deities that have been put in PS. They don't work in Planeshift. Come up with something more original.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 02:29:24 am
Alright. After reading through your story all the way this time, it's time for more peanuting. Firstly - it really makes no sense. Are you guys trying to get revenge? Fill the world with hate? Why? Your character doesn't have any hatred, it was just "given" to him, and he doesn't really have anything to hate. And I can see it now - you walking around touching everyone and making them into your slave. This isn't far from the vampires at all, they just walked around biting people. Please rethink this, it's going to be seriously annoying. Good roleplay involves more thinking, a history that describes more than "spreading evil for the hell of it," maybe more of a council of the guild, than the whole guild being a council. The way it sounds right now is like you're the head of all evil or something, being a "darkness council" you might want to rethink that. Some guilds have a head council of about 4-5 people, and the rest are members that work their way up through certain ranks. I don't see that here, I only see you randomly picking the people you "turn evil" for whatever rank's available.

Edit: Also, in no way is this like Culmi. The leader of that guild built up hatred for life, and wanted to gather together some people and try to get rid of all the annoyance of people walking around with a smile (or something). This guild simply had the leader magically "turn evil" and turn everyone else evil...far from the same.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 02:33:26 am
Well I see your point on that =^.^= ... though I never said there was only involved fighting. Alot of RP is going to go into this. I have been known to make alot of twists in my RPs. Also sorry if I didn't explain myself very clear earelier .. I have problems with writeing somthing then rereading it then editing and all that stuff trying to make my point clear .. no way to be mean. But yes im a bit stubborn ... But i was just trying to make valid points on my part like the whole demon thing ... hehe when I was coming up with the ranks i didn't actaully think of it the way you did, since you thoult of it that way ... yaa sure i thoult about others will to .. but i just wanted to mention why in this case it would work. And i never whent into being personal about it and saying somone was  bad RPer unlike some people who can't restrain themselves. But ya I take all ideas into consideration .. though if somone sees somthing wrong I am going to correct them so they get a better idea of what im thinking ... I hope im making myself as clear as possible... cause at this point im about to say screw it i tryed and everyone treats me like dirt. I mean seems like my last idea of an all fenki guild was a good one ... so I do have more experience then you may think.
To the post that was posted while i was posting lol ... Ya i was thinking about leaving them nameless and forgot to mention that, but ya that as well. Also and there not really demons im going to take that out .. cause the words just have the meaning of demon describing evil lol.

I also explained in a post i wouldn't go around touching people .. the story is just an example nothing more. took mearley 10 minutes to write. Also the chest ... well it was more like a curse. The story really has nothing to do with the main idea of the guild and always can be rethoult
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Suno_Regin on October 03, 2006, 02:40:34 am
All fenki guild? Are you Herah?
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 02:48:42 am
Well I see your point on that =^.^= ... though I never said there was only involved fighting. Alot of RP is going to go into this. I have been known to make alot of twists in my RPs. Also sorry if I didn't explain myself very clear earelier .. I have problems with writeing somthing then rereading it then editing and all that stuff trying to make my point clear .. no way to be mean.
That's just funny. You can't be like that when explaining a guild idea. You have to be meticulous. You can't just post half-explained concepts and then get upset at people who didn't understand your point of view simply because you couldn't be bothered posting your ideas concisely in the first place.
But yes im a bit stubborn ... But i was just trying to make valid points on my part like the whole demon thing ... hehe when I was coming up with the ranks i didn't actaully think of it the way you did, since you thoult of it that way ... yaa sure i thoult about others will to .. but i just wanted to mention why in this case it would work. And i never whent into being personal about it and saying somone was  bad RPer unlike some people who can't restrain themselves.

I was restraining myself. I can do much, much worse. Frankly, what did you expect? You post a half-baked idea and show no desire to pay any attention(at the time) to any of the advice being proferred. You seem to think demons are part of the setting, and evidently you think, and your spelling is atrocious. I admit that the last one is subjective because English may not be your first language, but I get the feeling you're just not trying. Frankly, I have trouble picturing you doing any true, elegant roleplaying. I hope to be proven wrong.
But ya I take all ideas into consideration .. though if somone sees somthing wrong I am going to correct them so they get a better idea of what im thinking ... I hope im making myself as clear as possible... cause at this point im about to say screw it i tryed and everyone treats me like dirt. I mean seems like my last idea of an all fenki guild was a good one ... so I do have more experience then you may think.
Coming up with a half-decent idea for a guild does not qualify as experience. Implementation is the key here. Plus, and this is going to sound strange coming from me, you need to work on your social skills. The way you say things does not portray a particularly open or friendly individual. You appear to care about that.
To the post that was posted while i was posting lol ... Ya i was thinking about leaving them nameless and forgot to mention that, but ya that as well. Also and there not really demons im going to take that out .. cause the words just have the meaning of demon describing evil lol.
Well, good.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 03, 2006, 02:52:32 am
First I must point you all towards your lack of information. On PS's original concept we, the players, could not have characters bend on doing evil alone. Mainly because they stated people would be busy attempting to stop an invasion of creeps and producing materials to aid on that quest. Oh wait. That was ignored a long time ago. Ha ha ha. How distractful of me.

Still, I think it foolish to create guilds with the purpose of being evil. It doesn't fit PS's setting (where things should have a normal, realistic course instead of sudden, demonic, mutant, dragon, vampire path.) I am really sorry that people continue applying alignments to PS. It is really sad to see people falling prey to the unoriginal task of choosing an alignment, instead of creating fluid, realistic characters, that may be considered evil as they interact with others who may consider their traits less moral.

This might sound strange from someone who owns a "Dark Empire." However, unlike other guilds, the Dark Empire is only out there to establish itself through whatever means it has. It doesn't do good, it doesn't do evil. It does what it has to do for itself. Why name it dark? Why name France, France? Most of us don't know it nowadays, and it really doesn't matter as it is just a name.

Quote
Our objective is to create a persistent world in a fantasy setting, in which every player will create his character and will be able to live, explore, and interact with maximum realism.

I am quite aware that even most GMs are not aware of how the RP setting should be enhanced. Probably it's because this is an alpha test, and we are tester before being roleplayers. However, we should try going the right way, even while having such a lack of direction from the GMs and the PS team. There are specks of information we can cling to, and we can always use logic.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 03:05:12 am
I can't even talk no more .. just forget the idea .... I never realized I sounded like such a jerk on the internet  :'(. I really don't try to be and im not. I was just debating on what i think. It's like saying i can't have my own oppinion. Ya sure i didn't except what some thoult but that is my oppinion. Trying to make me change what i think is just down right rude and then taking it on a personal level is just down right wrong ... I spell fine I just don't type fine ... its called typos. Also thanks for mentioning how my social skills are horrble ... I am sure you would be happy to know i talk to very few people in RL due to my past. Im done here.

And no im noy Herah, im Winnry.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 03:11:44 am
Oh please, there's no need for this to get personal. Nothing I have said was meant to reflect on you as a person. Merely on your attitude towards and understanding of this game and its RP context. There's no need to run off and pout.

I sincerely apologize, in front of all who read this post, for any comments of mine that may have been taken personally. Nothing I EVER say in these forums is meant to reflect on RL, this is a game, and all my comments remain within the context of the game.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 03, 2006, 03:16:56 am
Phin you bully.

Tsshorn. This was an "IDEA," right? So, you can improve it. You can still have a pack of cruel villains, but find something more realistic and original. This is also my opinion. And what Phin said was his opinion. Do you know that you can simply discard them and do as you like? I wouldn't advise you on doing that, but it is still an option... If it makes you any more relieved.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 03:27:05 am
*sighs* I don't know it really is just me. I mean I have been told by many I was a good RPer so I know i am and playing the game as long as i have ...well I am sure I have plenty of experience. I won't drop the idea I will improve on it ... but I hope you all realize im trying as best as i can. I am just trying to add to the excitment of the game. Trying to make an evil guild is extremly hard to make perfect ... as everyone wants it to be. I have taken your ideas into consideration and will think about them ... my last posts was just trying to explain on things that you all took wrong ... demons in no way mean demons ... again evil is what i was going for. That's all I was trying to say. I hate to have to keep mentioning it as some of you just don't get it cause it keeps being mentioned. Also when giving ideas try being polite when giving them. That's one thng though is people reading text is hard to really see what they are saying or what there attitude is and it's takin the wrong way. Never judge a some one by there writeing as words do not have emotions.

Alright ... I have an idea ... ok all the ranks and the story leave that out of the origenal idea. This idea is pretty much very flexible. But I would like to keep the whole council type of thing can change the ammount of true council members though. Ranks are cahngable to the type of evil charecter you want to be. Second The story WILL be cahnged as i stated in my origenal post ... I even said it was an example. Third I would also like to keep the whole alt thing so you can RP an Evil charecter with out hurting your rep. Fourth the true council has to be evil ... it;s a must while the rest of them will have leeway ... you know how minyans are ... there not really as evil as the rest. Do we all understand now? Hope so.

 Hope that makes it more clear on what i am really looking for.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 03:35:47 am
demons in no way mean demons
Then I would suggest you stop referring to them until you've thought up a new name and description for what you're looking for. Also as a note, you don't need them to be mystical beings at all. In real life lots of people are cruel and "evil" without having some quasi-magical reason behind it.
Never judge a some one by there writeing as words do not have emotions.
And I suggest you take your own advice as well. You are the one who got all emotional. I do not, as I'm sure people imagine, write my posts in a fury of righteous wrath. They are written, for the most part, in a calm, collected state of mind. What I said about you as a roleplayer was not an insult judged to make you feel bad, it was an observation based on what I have seen of you so far.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 03:40:32 am
Reread top post ... Hehe and ya everyone lsiten to what i say .... not what I do =^.^=. Also the demons thing was just ... ahh anyway just trying to say it's not important .. there that's as clear as i can make it. I already said i was going to change it lol. Cause everyone seems to have different interpretation of things.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 03:42:16 am
Ok, so let us know when you've got a bit more concrete of an idea. We'll go from there with our advice/suggestions/insults.  ;)
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 03:57:01 am
Naa I am ot going to do it ... cause for some reason now I feel what ever i come up with will be crap. There will always be somthing wrong with it. Wether it be the ranks or not being origenal .. I don't know. If i come up with somthing and think it's great i will be sure never to psot it again.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 03, 2006, 03:59:51 am
Ah, but being able to cling on to what everyone thinks is a bad idea despite public opinion, and make it work is what makes a true pillar of the community. Look at Sangwa, for instance.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 03, 2006, 04:17:17 am
I really do not know ... everyone seems to say there should be more evil guilds and such in PS well most do and yet it's just way to hard to do. Cause every evil guild has somthing in common ... there goals, how to RP evil because pretty much going around doing what evil people do is just not evil enouph for everyone. I really do not know where i should go from here ... pretty much what i gatherd is the whole idea is not that great. In my eye's a demon ... well there is no such things and it's just more of a way to describe somone that's evil ... I mean tryed to explain it in a way of how say indian tribes got there names .. like tiger of the lan or somthing .. doesn't necissarly mean the guy is a tiger lo. I guess it just really depends on the way you look at things ... Also I made the story him becoming evil after opening the chest out of curiousity asif he released evil ... I guess your right about it not being original .. but who says it will not make a great RP type guild? I mean that's all I was going for was to give a ense of more evil in PS and more RP ... wasn't going for making it perfect with the ranks and passed story. Don't think the story is to bad anyway.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 05, 2006, 03:04:23 am
The thing is, you shouldn't create a guild for evil's sake. Having "be evil" as a goal is hollow.

PS's setting should be more focused on interest based divergencies instead of a battle of good versus evil.
You can create a guild of religious priests that advocate a religion that believes in the redemption of souls by throwing them into the Death Realm and making them live there. It should have some logic. It's a priests' guild, and their objective is to make people live pure lives in a pure place. At least that would be their thinking.
Of course, if PS had other stable guilds, you should create divergences with other guilds that needed workers and wouldn't find it funny to have part of the population living in the Death Realm because of some priests. You would be evil in the eyes of the other guilds and yet you would not be going around shouting how evil you are.

It's really not realistic to go around being evil. People don't choose to be evil, at least not smart people. They have goals, and those goals (insane or not) interfere with the lives of others who then deem them evil. You can't be evil because you say you are. You're evil when other people say you are (as moral belongs in the superego.) That should be the part of evil people should try to exploit.

Concluding, to come out bluntly and say "We are evil. Look at us while we're at it." looks ridiculous. And that's what you do when you go around saying "Join my evil guild, let us do evil" and things of the sort. The real originality is doing your guild, making its structure fit PS's and the guild setting and then, through your actions, acquire such a rating. You do not ask or demand people to play along. They should have no choice but to witness it.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: ramlambmoo on October 05, 2006, 07:18:47 am
Quote
It's really not realistic to go around being evil. People don't choose to be evil, at least not smart people. They have goals, and those goals (insane or not) interfere with the lives of others who then deem them evil. You can't be evil because you say you are. You're evil when other people say you are (as moral belongs in the superego.) That should be the part of evil people should try to exploit.

Thats like saying people dont choose to be good.  Who says people dont choose to be evil?  Thats your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but you cant speak for other people.  Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others.  I agree that it looks more authentic and immersive if there's a solid backstory, but you cant say that people dont just want to be evil for the sake of it.

On topic, I am firmly of the opinion that it takes a very solid and committed leadership to make an evil guild like this work.  There are many traps and many ways for it to not work, and I fail to see how you will avoid them.  My main suggestion to sucess would be to Roleplay 'evil' characters for a while and let the Guild form from that.  Get a feel for it first, and the backstory and Guild will come naturally.  You cant set out to form a guild based on something you havent yet done.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 05, 2006, 08:50:12 am
Another evil guild?

There are no other evil guilds.  There are ideas for them, but, no truly evil guilds that I have seen.

Evil characters, yes.

I've seen a few evil guilds in my time.  A lot of them seem to be secret.


Firstly - it really makes no sense. Are you guys trying to get revenge? Fill the world with hate? Why? Your character doesn't have any hatred, it was just "given" to him, and he doesn't really have anything to hate.

That just means it's more pure.:)




I don't think people choose to be good, or choose to be evil.  People do what they think is right.  It's just that people often disagree on what the right thing to do is.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Anfa on October 05, 2006, 02:04:23 pm
Thats like saying people dont choose to be good.  Who says people dont choose to be evil?  Thats your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but you cant speak for other people.  Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others.  I agree that it looks more authentic and immersive if there's a solid backstory, but you cant say that people dont just want to be evil for the sake of it.

That would also depend on your definition of evil...pooping in the quench tank does not make one evil..it makes one crude and obnoxious. Big difference! I have met alot of people in rl who have never learnt "common courtesy" but that does not make them evil. I always wondered why some people equate rude, crude, foul mouthed and obnoxious to evil?? Many who have been marked as "evil" in our real world have been described by neighbours as "the polite quiet nice man who lived next door and never bothered anyone!!" "I can't believe HE would do something like that??"

Taking in to account some of the events going on in the real world recently and in the past, do we truly know "the face of evil"?

IMHO, Evil is not what you do, but how others perceive your actions. If enough get together to oppose your thinking and feel threatened by your actions, than shall you be named "Evil"

Many of History's "most Evil" were not thought of as evil by their followers, and truly does that make them the greatest threat!

That there be a method to your madness and a "good reason" to justify your actions, that is the way to go. And please...

stop pooping in the quench tank...not amusing!!  >:(
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Einnol on October 05, 2006, 05:24:18 pm
Many who have been marked as "evil" in our real world have been described by neighbours as "the polite quiet nice man who lived next door and never bothered anyone!!" "I can't believe HE would do something like that??"

Excellent point.  It really comes down to perception.  You can't simply declare yourself as evil.  Others have to perceive your actions as 'evil'.  And if this 'evil' is hidden by a visage of 'normalcy', then it becomes much more interesting.  It is more subtle and more of a surprise when the 'evil within' is revealed.  Plus, it is much more realistic and believable than just openly declaring to everyone 'I am evil.'.

Also, in my opinion, trying to classify everything or everybody as 'black or white', 'right or wrong', or 'good or evil' is a bit simplistic.  Things are almost never that absolute.  I guess it is more like 'shades of gray'.  As I see it, having a blend of personality traits makes for a more interesting character.  The same basic idea can also be applied to a guild as well.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 05, 2006, 05:26:44 pm
"Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others." That is not the same as being evil. In medival times torturers worked for the king, and weren't seen as evil, since they punished the prisonners. I am referring to the definition of evil as something morally wrong. In order for something to be morally wrong it has to involve other people as moral standards depend on society. Therefore you can not be evil by yourself. Or you can, but then only to yourself.
This means there is no such thing as an evil character that has not be seen as evil by anyone. It means those characters are ridiculous, not evil.

So if you create a character/guild that has had no interaction with any society whatsoever and you yourself claim it to be evil, then you are wrong. You're whatever people think of you. If your guild for instance manages to wipe out obstacles for mine, I won't consider you evil.

Concluding, what I mean is that people in the creation of their guild should make it a realistic thing. Not something it is not. So, at the genisis of the guild, you create the gears that will plunge your guild into evil. You don not simply make it evil without any sense.

Let me add that this is not an alignment discussion. This discussion is about creating guilds in the right conditions, and the above text attempts merely to bear a vision that enforces realism in PS and therefore meets its setting.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 05, 2006, 05:29:21 pm
I see torturers as pretty damned evil, whether they're working for a king named Louie or a president named Cheney Bush.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 05, 2006, 05:31:18 pm
That is _your_ opinion though. There should be alot more of them. That is part of my point. Those who gaze at things should decide. It is what happens objectivily, despite the subjective thoughts of all.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 05, 2006, 10:31:04 pm
Alright, I changed a few things, im not going to say the guild is evil despite what it says in the first post ... but it just is giving the idea of how the person should act ... like destroy all hate and darkness ... Not sure but just replace the evil words with somthing else lol. Tell me what you think now. Also just so you know the whole story isn't there ... I would rather most of it be in game ... so before you question somthing .. think to yourself could that question come up in game. KK. Such as im going to say that Swivles didn't just magically become this way ... there is more to it then that ... but thats what adds to the guild is things you have to find out for yourself ... by spying or doing what ever just have fun lol.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: ramlambmoo on October 06, 2006, 01:33:21 am
Quote
"Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others." That is not the same as being evil. In medival times torturers worked for the king, and weren't seen as evil, since they punished the prisonners. I am referring to the definition of evil as something morally wrong. In order for something to be morally wrong it has to involve other people as moral standards depend on society. Therefore you can not be evil by yourself. Or you can, but then only to yourself.
This means there is no such thing as an evil character that has not be seen as evil by anyone. It means those characters are ridiculous, not evil.

If you define evil as being against the opinions of society, then you could still set out to do that- what If you wanted to be against the opinions of everyone else?  What if you wanted everybody to hate you?  Then, wouldnt you want to be evil?  If, your character has a reason to desire a majority of people to dislike you, then, according to your definition, you your character has a reason to be evil.  Now you might think that nobody would want people to hate them, but there are reasons and advantages to be gained from it.  It's entirely plausible that somebody could have an ulterior motive for having a majority of people dislike them.

Having said that, I dont think thats what most guilds/characters mean or are looking for when they say they are 'evil'.  But, saying your character is 'evil' could then be an awknowledgement that 'I think alot of people wont be happy with what I do; Thats ok with me'. 

You seem to have the perception that everything is subjective and merely opinions of others, but I think that 'evil' characters are going to behave instinctively in a different manner to 'good' players.  If the society has a clear set of morals and expectations that it follows, you could confidently predict that your character will be labelled 'evil' from their actions; therefore why not state that beforehand?  Its a trueism to say "Characters will do what they perceive to be best" but I think the evil characters care less about other's opinions, and inherently have less respect for other characters then 'good' characters do.  So I think there is still a measure of objectiveness about whether a character is good or evil.

Quote
So if you create a character/guild that has had no interaction with any society whatsoever and you yourself claim it to be evil, then you are wrong. You're whatever people think of you. If your guild for instance manages to wipe out obstacles for mine, I won't consider you evil.

If you're werent interacting with society, then you're not doing anything against other characters, and so It would be impossible to be evil in the first place in any sense.  Its assumed that any character or guild in the Planeshift world is going to interact with it.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 06, 2006, 01:44:34 am
Sangwa's right here, so you can all stop arguing with him.

Tssthorn, I think you're kind of in over your head. Do you really know what you're doing? This isn't criticism, I'm just wondering how much you're doing what you think is what you should be doing, and how much you're just doing what everyone tells you to do.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: ramlambmoo on October 06, 2006, 01:59:00 am
Quote
Sangwa's right here, so you can all stop arguing with him.

Thanks for your opinion.

Quote
Tssthorn, I think you're kind of in over your head. Do you really know what you're doing? This isn't criticism, I'm just wondering how much you're doing what you think is what you should be doing, and how much you're just doing what everyone tells you to do.

Agreed- I also think he's in over his head.  Creating a guild like this straight off wouldnt be an easy task for anybody.  Thats why I suggested you merely roleplay for a bit and then get a feel for what the guild should be like- focus on what you do in game first, and then let the guild flow from that.  You have a much better chance of sucess that way.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 06, 2006, 03:12:23 pm
??? Again I am not new and I am not in way over my head. I have been the leader of two guilds so far .... look I do not have to explain myself. I have been playing for nearley a year now ... I think I can handle this. "Let's all look at her post count and go by that to see if she is new" .... or maybe just cause of my name and you never seen it in PS. Maybe I don't go by the same name as I do on the fourms ... obviously.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 06, 2006, 05:00:29 pm
I've been in... [counts]... ten guilds that I can remember, and I'm still not sure I'd be able to successfully lead a guild.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 06, 2006, 07:16:27 pm
I've been in one guild. And it has outlived everyother of its time.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 06, 2006, 07:58:46 pm
I've been in one guild. And it has outlived everyother of its time.



There is at least one guild still around and active which has existed since before the Dark Empire, though in different forms.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 07, 2006, 12:34:55 am
I've been in one guild. And it has outlived everyother of its time.



There is at least one guild still around and active which has existed since before the Dark Empire, though in different forms.
Prove it.

??? Again I am not new and I am not in way over my head. I have been the leader of two guilds so far .... look I do not have to explain myself. I have been playing for nearley a year now ... I think I can handle this. "Let's all look at her post count and go by that to see if she is new" .... or maybe just cause of my name and you never seen it in PS. Maybe I don't go by the same name as I do on the fourms ... obviously.
You're a very aggressive sort of person aren't you? You really get quite hot under the collar when criticised. I could exploit this and receive great pleasure, but I'll work on restraining yourself.

I think Zanzi's right, though(isn't that amazing!) just because you've been around for a year doesn't qualify you to be a guild leader. As for being the leader of two guilds so far, I'm assuming that isn't in PS? If not, then you can't really use that as reference, because our standards are higher.  ;)
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 07, 2006, 01:40:14 am
Yep in PS .. and yes I love the pleasure of getting hot headed .... hehe not really .. I just love to debate ... I am very stubborn and will never let somthing go. Also the two guilds ... actaully 3 if you must know ... 1 was the Dark Vigilantes... Dowanger handed me the guild .... Second was the Frosty Dojo ... was great but somthing happend and couldn't lead the guild no more ... and also I am a leader of the Felicitous Fenkis ... Herah and I both lead it, we both have equal say in everything. Flower any one?  :flowers:
Actaully alot thoult I was a great guild leader as well  :P. Why not get to know me in PS then decide wether I would be a good guild leader or not.

*couphs* Ummm here you go http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23521.0 That was the Frosty Dojo .... yep but RL situation made me not able to be a leader of a guild as had no interent for a very long time. At first the arrangemnt was going to be for Alliva to be the leader while i was away but I decided not to as I could have been gone for over a year.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 07, 2006, 01:54:05 am
So on top of everything else, you now want to lead two guilds? I think I've seen enough, but if you want, add me to your buddy list and get in touch with me in-game. If you manage to impress me there I'll be... impressed. :P
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 07, 2006, 12:42:08 pm
Leading two guilds? That really is some effort. I got my hands full with the Dark Empire.

A great leader? Great leaders shouldn't let guilds die.


Zanzibar I hope you don't mean DeT. DE is around since before I played in Molecular Blue. In Kada's Tavern its joining was marked as some of the early days in 2002's May and our website has news from August 2002. Obviously our guild was not born at the same time it got marked on Kada's, or had a website. So there, it's so old I don't even know its age.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 09, 2006, 09:18:21 am
Didn't read that beofre ... but I didn't let the guild die .... no one could take it and I did not have the interent and was planning on going to the military if you must know. See everyone thinks im not taking any suggestions ... but i am. Before with the whole demon thing it was a huge misunderstanding .... everyone seems to forget that people see demons differntly then others. But either way I cahnged that ... so please just give me suggestions ... if you would like.  :'( please.  :P  .... Also Phinehas .. this topic has nothing to do with me as a RPer, and you should have never made any comments on that in the first place ... who cares wether i can do it or not ... whole pont of this thread is to get suggestions ... just becuase i do not take some of them does not mean I will not take any.

On topic, I am firmly of the opinion that it takes a very solid and committed leadership to make an evil guild like this work.  There are many traps and many ways for it to not work, and I fail to see how you will avoid them.  My main suggestion to sucess would be to Roleplay 'evil' characters for a while and let the Guild form from that.  Get a feel for it first, and the backstory and Guild will come naturally.  You cant set out to form a guild based on something you havent yet done.

Now that is the type of suggestions im looking for ....and is exactly what i am going to do .... thanks for that suggestions. Best one on here so far!
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Sangwa on October 09, 2006, 05:02:57 pm
Haha, if you read it carefuly, it is saying you need good leadership and you must be good at roleplaying. It's just a nice way of saying you will have to become a good roleplayer and leader. That was what Phinehas meant when he said he wasn't sure you were any of those.

Suggestions. You like demons? There are demonic-like things in PS too. Laanx (http://www.planeshift.it/setting_history.html) has turned into an unkind god, surrounded by twisted forces of lemurs and other strange beings in Kadaikos. Your character could have had some sort of interaction with some of those and felt attracted to them and their hatred towards Hydlaa, the city Talad created. The goal would then be to disrupt the city's wellfare while finding a way through the labyrinths, to reach the Kadaidos.

You would need to keep in mind that your guild members, if easily recognized would be given pursuit by the authorities of hydlaa.

You would get a great background story this way, which would take advantage of the setting. The roleplay action deriving from it would surely be alot more rewarding to everyone in planeshift.

You can aslo check my Guild Creation Guide (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25859.0) for some general suggestions in the different steps of guild creation.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 09, 2006, 06:19:50 pm
Haha, if you read it carefuly, it is saying you need good leadership and you must be good at roleplaying. It's just a nice way of saying you will have to become a good roleplayer and leader. That was what Phinehas meant when he said he wasn't sure you were any of those.

Suggestions. You like demons? There are demonic-like things in PS too. Laanx (http://www.planeshift.it/setting_history.html) has turned into an unkind god, surrounded by twisted forces of lemurs and other strange beings in Kadaikos. Your character could have had some sort of interaction with some of those and felt attracted to them and their hatred towards Hydlaa, the city Talad created. The goal would then be to disrupt the city's wellfare while finding a way through the labyrinths, to reach the Kadaidos.

You would need to keep in mind that your guild members, if easily recognized would be given pursuit by the authorities of hydlaa.

You would get a great background story this way, which would take advantage of the setting. The roleplay action deriving from it would surely be alot more rewarding to everyone in planeshift.

You can aslo check my Guild Creation Guide (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25859.0) for some general suggestions in the different steps of guild creation.

Suriously .. I hate to say it but you and Phinehas are completly wrong ... no one here can tell me I would be a bad guild leader with out actaully knowing me in game. You also need to get over yourself with the whole demon thing .... it was just a description to describe the person in the rank .... not actaully meaning he or she was really a demon. Also I am a good roleplayer. Look I don't need to take this any further ... this is a topic about the idea of this guild ... it's not about me. Also Phinehas if you say one more personal remark about my roleplaying or guild leadership I will just completly ignore you and just skip over your posts.

Look everyone says there has to be some story to why the guild is evil ... but have you ever watched movies? How many movies have you seen with evil people in it actaully go back into the past and explain how that person became evil? Also name a bad guy who actaully completed his goal of world domination? You wan't to know why these are hard to answer? Because no one knows why some people are truley evil, they do not know why they kill ... they do not know what they where trying to accomplish. Take Hittler for example .... why did he kill Jewish people ... just because he hated them .... So no one can tell me I can't choose to be evil ... cause anyone can. I am choosing to be evil in the way I see it in my eyes ..... fine if you don't consider it evil .. well thats your oppinion.

How ever I do like your story idea .... also just remember as I said .. the current story was just a quick write just to show and example. I have also read the Guild Creation guid before ... but thanks anyway.

Also just here is one other thing, Everyone has there own oppinions ... just because i go against some does not mean I am a bad RPer or anything and do not understand how anyone can accuse me of such ... suriously some of you need to grow up. If you don't want your suggestion to be rejected because somone decided they don't like it ... then do not post it. Which this still was not even the case ... it was the same thing with the whole demon thing and no one seemed to understand it's just a name and nothing else. I tryed explaining it but it kept getting mentioned.

Well anyway Thanks Sangwa .... thet is the type of suggestions im lookking for .. not things telling me I can't do this or that. This topic has nothing to do with what i can and cannot do. Many know me in PS so I suggest you get to know me to before you say anything about me in game.

Umm also that suggestion that i said was good is good ... not the first sentence but the main suggestion sentence .... duh ... no I am going to call myself a bad Guild lerder when i already lead a guild *Sarcasm* lol ... See, you want to know who started this whole thing .. that was phinehas takeing one of my posts a little to surious ... I disagree with somthing he says and he complains about it .... I say a good guild leader should stand up for herself and what she thinks is right ... hehe wel in Swivles case  .. he. Anyway back on topic!
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 09, 2006, 11:36:54 pm
Suggestions. You like demons? There are demonic-like things in PS too. Laanx (http://www.planeshift.it/setting_history.html) has turned into an unkind god, surrounded by twisted forces of lemurs and other strange beings in Kadaikos.
Watch yourself with my race. I don't like being called a demon. :P

Also Phinehas if you say one more personal remark about my roleplaying or guild leadership I will just completly ignore you and just skip over your posts.

*Phinehas puts one hand to his brow and prepares to be a drama queen.*
Oh gasp! Oh horror! Oh woe is me!
suriously some of you need to grow up.
Coming from you that's rich. After you blow up at Sangwa, who is probably the single most polite person in all of PS I have no respect for anything that you say about other people needing to control their emotions. Show some control over yours and we'll talk. As for my posts, my whole point was that for a guild to be good it has to have a good leader. I don't think you'd make one. After all you've done to try to convince me otherwise, I'm still unconvinced. Just my opinion. Don't get all overheated about it, just prove me wrong.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Gharan on October 10, 2006, 12:46:57 am
Constructive criticism should be welcome not put down  :D
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: bilbous on October 10, 2006, 01:20:05 am
Telling people they don't measure up is not constructive. Even if it is true which I don't know enough about those involved to judge.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 10, 2006, 01:41:51 am
I've been in one guild. And it has outlived everyother of its time.



There is at least one guild still around and active which has existed since before the Dark Empire, though in different forms.
Prove it.


No, that's esoteric knowledge and in-game lore.  It's better to find out such things for a reason or not at all.  As far as your other comment, I am very qualified to be a guild leader.  I've been offered such a position a number of times in fact.  But I've turned it down each time though because it's not who my character is.


Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 01:53:46 am
I've been in one guild. And it has outlived everyother of its time.



There is at least one guild still around and active which has existed since before the Dark Empire, though in different forms.
Prove it.


No, that's esoteric knowledge and in-game lore.  It's better to find out such things for a reason or not at all.
Shoulda known it, some secret guild. Oh well, secrete all you like.

 
As far as your other comment, I am very qualified to be a guild leader.  I've been offered such a position a number of times in fact.  But I've turned it down each time though because it's not who my character is.



It was directed towards Tssthorn.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 10, 2006, 02:06:39 am
First off quote me where i fliped out ... I never fliped out .... your just imagining things ... must be the way I type ... i said i was stubborn ... I didn't say I was a jerk. Just because i didn't agree to somthing does not mean I am flipping out. Only time I actaully fliped out was when you insulted me cause you compeltly misread what i was trying to say Phinehas. You forget text does not have emotions .. so how do you know if i was flipping out? Why not talk to me on skype and see for yourself? I don't get hotheaded very easy .. somone can call me anything and i don't care .. anyone can criticise me and i just ignore them. Also not going to name any names phinehas .. but I found out some stuff about you ... and I heard you seem to always cause problems.

*Winnry shrugs* You kinda remind me of shal ... except he never insulted me on a personal level.

I just reread every post and I have not said anything bad or did I flip out on sangwa .... Only thing i said to him in this whole topic is that no one can say I am a bad guild leader ... You can also tell I was not flipping out as i even thanked him in the same post  ??? It's like your trying to turn everyone against me by trying to say im flipping out when I am really not. I don't even see how you can get an emotional feel from text ... minda explaining that a bit?
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 10, 2006, 02:10:14 am
Shoulda known it, some secret guild. Oh well, secrete all you like.

Something like that, but not.  I wouldn't worry about it.


It was directed towards Tssthorn.

But you were using a misinterpretation of something I had said.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 02:33:14 am
It was directed towards Tssthorn.

But you were using a misinterpretation of something I had said.
I was? Strange. You said that you'd been in ten guilds but still weren't sure you'd make a good guild leader. I used that to point out that simply having been around or having been in guilds doesn't necessarily qualify you to be a good guild leader, as you pointed out. Sorry if I missed something somewhere.
Shoulda known it, some secret guild. Oh well, secrete all you like.

Something like that, but not.  I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm not.
First off quote me where i fliped out ... I never fliped out .... your just imagining things ... must be the way I type ...
I hope so.

Also not going to name any names phinehas .. but I found out some stuff about you ... and I heard you seem to always cause problems.
Is this where I'm supposed to rant and rave against whoever said that thereby proving to you that your suspicions that I'm emotionally and mentally unstable are right, enabling you to ignore everything I've said? Sorry, fact is, I don't really care. Chances are, whoever said it is not someone who knows me well, they just see me criticizing guilds left and right and assume that I'm a jerk. If you asked people who knew me I'm sure you'd get a different story.

I'm going to say something that I want you, and everyone else who reads this thread, to consider. Just because I'm not "nice" about my criticism, doesn't make anything I say less true. Even if I was a jerk, and I don't consider myself one(isn't that a surprise?:P), most of what I say still holds true. A lot of people don't really understand the difference between constructive criticism and destructive criticism. Constructive is not a synonym for "nice". What I say is not "nice", but it is constructive. There are definite things that I point out that need help, just because I don't say, "And perhaps, if you would be so wonderfully kind as to condescend to listen to my advice, this area of your guild could perhaps maybe use a little help," doesn't mean that it's not constructive or that it doesn't leave the criticised with an idea(if he's looking for it) of what he should do to improve. If I showed up in a thread and said, "You three are morons, and you in the corner, you're a total idiot," then that would be destructive criticism and I would understand the dislike people show for me.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 10, 2006, 02:36:14 am
Yeah, I guess I'm contradicting myself.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 02:43:08 am
Yeah, I guess I'm contradicting myself.
Could I ask for a brief statement of your stance in this discussion, for clarification's sake?
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 10, 2006, 02:51:11 am
Ok I actaully completly agree with you Phinhas on you last post ... but where you not doing the same i just did? You pretty much said if people do not know you .. all they see is you ranting about guilds all the time .... But yet your just really trying to help make the game better ... but yet people judge you very quickly ... but yet you did that to me. I disagreed .. and it porbably is the way I type .. sorry about that ... but I disagreed with some of the suggestions and you said some things like I am probably a bad RPer ... do you see where I am coming from though. I completly understand your type of criticism ... but it's when you go to far and start critisizing the person and not what the topic is about ... that got me fliping out ... actaully also want to point out .. even then I didn't flip out ... I actaully got really upset. Also the whole no social skills type of thing yousaid ... I mean no matter what thoughs are not nice things to say ... and you need to learn to control how you cuntructivly critisize... Course don't have to listen ... just trying to help  :P
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 02:58:26 am
The difference between our situations is that I could care less what people call me. The social skills thing, now that I read it over, was not nearly so insultingly stated as you seem to think. I simply said that you need to work on how you say things, as you evidently seem to get the wrong message across.

As for a bad RPer, let me clarify that I mean that not in the sense that you would be bad at staying in character, or acting your character out well, I simply have doubts about your understanding of the deeper concepts of RP such as what is within the settings and what isn't, and what is a good character/guild, etc. etc. etc. I consider all those to be part of the RPer, your ability as an RPer in my opinion is not just the ability to walk around in-game calling everyone "sir" and not the names over their heads. I hope you get my meaning.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 10, 2006, 03:07:32 am
No actaully .. I do understand that ... I can tell you that your deffently right about that as well. I know I don't know everything about the setting and everything that makes a great guild ... but if you do not ever try you most likly will never learn though.

Also that comment is kinda like the type of comment where somone says somthing about there mothers and they say they are dead. You don't really know anything about my life .. so while it may not be so surious to you .. it can be taken surious by another. That's why I am just saying just be carful what you say ... you never know who it could be or how they may react. Though I do see your point now ... but even though im not into the whole setting type thing ... it still is at least worth to try.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 03:11:11 am
There now, see how easy that was to resolve once you stopped freaking out at everything I said.

 :devil: That was so evil, I just had to say it.  :devil:
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: zanzibar on October 10, 2006, 03:12:00 am
Yeah, I guess I'm contradicting myself.
Could I ask for a brief statement of your stance in this discussion, for clarification's sake?



If he has an idea for a guild, I think he should go for it and see what happens.  If it takes off, then that's great.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 03:18:38 am
Yeah, I guess I'm contradicting myself.
Could I ask for a brief statement of your stance in this discussion, for clarification's sake?



If he has an idea for a guild, I think he should go for it and see what happens.  If it takes off, then that's great.
I take it back. I don't want to know. :P :D

Also that comment is kinda like the type of comment where somone says somthing about there mothers and they say they are dead. You don't really know anything about my life .. so while it may not be so surious to you .. it can be taken surious by another. That's why I am just saying just be carful what you say ... you never know who it could be or how they may react.
Frankly, I'm fairly careful about what I say. I mean, according to your argument(and this is exaggeration I realize) if I met a new guy at my job and said, "Hey there, you new?" and they burst into tears and ran off because they'd been trying so hard to not look like a new guy then it would be my fault. I know everyone can't be the same, but I strongly suggest that you ignore what people say if you find it insulting personally. I mean, who cares what they think? Even if someone on this forum told me that I seem like a geek with no friends, girlfriend, or social life in general, I'd ignore it, no matter how close to home that might strike. ;)
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 10, 2006, 03:27:44 am
 :P Good point Phinehas .. thanks for the advice ... and I really mean that ... very good advice. but we are  :offtopic:. Lol lets get back on topic. I do however beleive i shoud still at least try and start a guild ... I mean it won't hurt no one. Actaully truthfully, I think it will play out a tad bit better thwn you may think  ;)
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 03:29:53 am
By all means, prove me wrong. I will admit(but don't tell anyone) that my standards are high. In fact, when I started my first guild I probably wouldn't have met my own standards... Just, please, no demons...
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 10, 2006, 03:45:28 am
 :D Hehe .. no problem ... no demons ... I will also switch the main ummm not sure what to call them yet .. guess the main charecters of the guild to 5 .. the rest of the ranks will be done as any normal guild. I will also change the story around ... to make it go better with the setting of the game ... any other suggestions ... cause i think I maybe forgetting a few things here lol.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: Phinehas on October 10, 2006, 03:55:43 am
You might want to repost the new concept so that people can know what they're looking at afresh. It'd be hard to look at the first page and then try and remember what you've already said you changed and what still needs to be changed, etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: [IDEA] The Council of Darkness
Post by: tssthorn on October 10, 2006, 04:06:58 am
Ya I know .. I will rework it .. and as soon as im done will repost it on the first post.