PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Phinehas on October 22, 2006, 05:17:29 am
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Ok, today I was in-game and I had a dilemma. I was doing some neighborly antagonizing and thought that perhaps we would eventually end up pitting ourselves against each other in a struggle of wills. Translation: A guy wanted to kill me because I was frustrating the heck out of him.
Now, he eventually backed down from the battle, but even so, it made me think. Who wins an RP battle? Almost all the RP battling that I've seen has ended up with no one except for NPC's dying. Usually, it's a lot of word sparring back and forth and figuring out how to dodge the other guy's latest blow or how to manipulate magic in a new and unexpected way thereby allowing you to avoid the fireball three inches in front of your face. I think, however, that there should be a winner and a loser in these battles, and I don't think it should entirely rely on the creativity or wordiness of the person, otherwise Under would be the ultimate fighter and the rest of us would go cry in our corners.
How do we decide who is more powerful than who? This is not a rhetorical question, I'm looking for answers. Seytra, please keep it under four paragraphs... One of the things that I thought of involves how long you've been a member of this game/community. I think this is, in a lot of cases(not all) a fair way to figure out who's more powerful. For instance, I have been here for almost three years, when I started out with Phinehas, he was not an extremely powerful wizard, and he was doing his best to learn. Over those three years, I have RPed him getting more and more powerful, including a story(not yet finished) explaining how he'd gone off to study when I couldn't get online for nearly a year. Now I've come to think of Phinehas as one of the more powerful wizards in PS. I haven't levelled him for many reasons varying from the fact that I hate levelling to the fact that I refuse to go OOC so far as to use weapons, and the magic in PS just isn't that powerful yet. So I think that, taking it all in, I would be more powerful than someone who showed up last month and simply says that his character his a very powerful mage. If this isn't so, then anyone can create a new character and say that he's extremely uber-powerful. There has to be some way to decide. I know that in this situation this caters to the older players which to some extent may not be that fair to the newer players, but I still haven't been able to think of any better system. I think this is an important matter if we want RP to go beyond sitting around talking to each other. A person needs to have an understanding, to some degree or another, just how powerful he is in relation to everyone else.
I know that there are times when people create a powerful villain or something of those sorts solely for the purpose of benefiting an RP that they've put together. I'm fine with that, I'm talking about actual characters that people play daily.
Please let me know your thoughts. I'm afraid I haven't been very clear in this post, but I'm writing it in a rush.
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OOC-ly my character is stronger then most of the people I come across, and I read a hell of al ot of descriptions each day, but he is only strong in this case for my OOC gameplay enjoyment, exploring, considering to do half the things I lvoe to do i have to max out stats so i can run further, or not die and have to run back from akkaio because i mis judged a gap, and the fact that hopping off the roof of a house would in no way hurt you if you knwo what you're doing is a major blunder on that, but besides the point.
whereas IC-ly, Kezzik only knows a little about combat, and nothign of magic, he weilds a weapon if he aabsolutely must, protect himself from a rogue whiel travelling or stumbling into a consumer nest, but he cant fight the world, nor plans to. what really bugs me though ,is that peopel only seem to RP in ways that they can throw their weight around, mixcing their maxed out knives & daggers skill to the fact they're the ultimate warrior and it annoys me, because in reality, no on is that agile, that amazing, if you annoyed a person, they'd backhand slap you sooner then you could even remember where you put your sword.. I can alread see where my own little rant is going and i'll just point outright and say it. the next 'evil' person I come across, rping torturing or killing someone in the most stupid location, say ahrnquists or laanx temple, or some slave trader (my character detests the thoguht of slavery, as do i really) I am simply going to walk up and stab them in the face
/me takes a deep breath.
but yes I can see where Phin is going with this, too many "I'm a powerful warrior/mage/combi-duo-panda-thing! you can't beat me!" types going around, the more experienced long term veteran players should have that edge no matter what, a benefit of sticking around
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Ok, that was a nice little completely off topic rant... :P
/me takes a deep breath.
but yes I can see where Phin is going with this, too many "I'm a powerful warrior/mage/combi-duo-panda-thing! you can't beat me!" types going around, the more experienced long term veteran players should have that edge no matter what, a benefit of sticking around
So, you're saying something along the lines of what I'm saying... that the longer you've RPed your character, the more of an edge you should be able to have against newer characters?
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Ok, that was a nice little completely off topic rant... :P
So, you're saying something along the lines of what I'm saying... that the longer you've RPed your character, the more of an edge you should be able to have against newer characters?
yeah, I do that when things bug me and theres no where else to put them, slight relevance and boom! there it goes >_>
anyways, yes, I'd have to completely agree on this, though your character will not 'progress' if you willingly leave planeshift, be it for a break, or if you dont intend to return, but end up doing so, otherwise peopel would 'powerlevel' their character and not be here, silly to think it but they could make up some guy, leave for a year and come back, expecting to be a veteran at it
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I think perhaps for a game that prizes Role Play above all else, which I think is a somewhat fair discription of Planeshifts intent, The whole emphasis of the game mechanics is wrong. In another thread a while ago I suggested that assigned skills might be the way to go. I'll go further here. Maybe it should be that at character creation you get x number of development points (dp) to use in assigning stats/skills. Once you run out of points your character is ready to play. Then once you start playing you get new dps to assign mostly from time in-game.
GM events could be a source of bonus points which will be handed out by the officiating GM at the end of their event. An interface could be developed to assist the GMs, people signing up for the event would have their vital statistics (character name, account, relative experience and whatever) automatically entered into this interface to help keep track. The GM would be able to give a modifier for the quality of the participation that would affect the dp reward and to account for people unable to finish the event.
This would allow people to acquire the skills they want to have without actually having to use them. Anyone roleplaying skills they do not have should be discouraged. A new customisable skill players could adopt would be *Other where players could spend points on character type skills not otherwise implimented such as perhaps bubble blowing. Things that do not directly affect other players but enhance characterization.
It seems to me if you want to focus on role play abstraction is key so that people don't get bogged down in game mechanics. If you want the game to be truly different then dare to be different and not just the same in disguise.
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i agree that the longer the characters have been on the gme the more powerful they are
to me i consider starting your character like being born in yliakum (not technically, but mentally and what not...) youre still getting used to everything and you cant really be considered powerful jsut becasue you say so...
the longer a person has been on the game, naturally they are going to ahve better instincts about what is truly happening in the game world, and have more knowledge about most of thie things in general..this knowledge is what helps give them "power"...
:flowers:
i had more to say and then i realized i must be rambling
...ive only been on since june, and i look up to the older players, not pick fights with them...
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A lot of what you say is good, Bilbous, but I'm talking about what we as players can do in a practical way now, not what the GM's and/or devs should have done and could still possibly do theoretically maybe sometime.
Kalilka, I'm glad you agree and that you could post it so concisely, you filled in a gap or two in what I said. I'm glad people are agreeing, because I think if enough people are satisfied with this being the "system" then it will make us more confident in our roleplay knowing that other players will back us up, not take the side of the offended noob with the uber six-year-old character...
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No need to use our imaginations.
Imaginations can't fight, and even if they do, there is no victor.
Ole Phin here is saying, "Hey let's give it to the ol' Geasers of the community".
Sorry new people... tough luck. :o
No, :woot:, we already have an answer.
Simple really.
It's called Dueling. Want to prove who is more physically powerfull, than be my guest.
Want to prove who has better diction and imagination, go RP.
Can't do both though.
If you wanna fight, and you use offensive words in RP, and you need to prove who is the superior, you only have 1 choice.
The questing is, What are you trying to prove?
3 cases are present:
1) Physical battle, want to see whose stronger= Duel.
2) Want to see who is smarter = TRIVIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, each person asks the other questions till one person doesn't know the right answer.
3) Want to see who RP's better = It's a matter of opinion, there is no way to judge this.
So if you RP a fight, you basically have to duel, there is no text fighting that i'm aware of except for Rock paper scissors.
Again, look at my top three cases, find out what you're trying to prove, and prove it.
~~Datruth
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One thing I ask is are we all allowed one special power?
I found myself in an RP with a player who proceeded to set his self on fire so we could not go near him and claimed we are allowed one such power.He used his red way to it (RPing obviously) and it's bugged me whether this would be considered godmodding or his RP just truly outwitted my own.
I also have to say it made it harder to RP with him as how would you get the better of someone who RPs like that?
I'm not having a go at the person I'm just trying to clarify what happened.
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er....
isnt the point of the game to roleplay??
what if you ahve someone that started 6 days ago...spend eery hour leveling their character up so that they are more powerful than anyone else....and what have they learned?
are they wiser? probalby no
are they more powerful? well to kill yes, but only for ooc reasons
and i dont think phineas was going along the lines of "us old geezers should eb more powerful than the noobs"
i think it was more along the lines of -this is how i interepreted it- noobs have no clue what they are doing and when they put in their descriptions "most powerful whatever in the world" etc...completely forgetting its called yliakum and so on...and then when they try and roleplay being powerful its jsut annoying
*granted not every noob acts like this, just the super ego filled ******** that plague the game*
s*sigh*
i always feel like im never making a good point :(
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1) Physical battle, want to see whose stronger= Duel.
nullified by the fact that some players who've been here for a while have well established characters that they have built over time, but IG their stats have been untouched since creation, and there are also players less then a month old that have close to maxed stats but nothing RP to go by.
that and also with every wipe the characters 'stats' go back to base creation, whereas in RP they'll still be storng, smart, wise etc.
edit:
Gharan, it's possible but I wouldnt call it a special ability, he's just using red way as a magic shield, nullify it with Azure.
Kalika; your point comes across quite fine :)
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I've explained that I don't and cannot level, therefore I cannot duel to the same extent that my character should be able to.
Please Datruth, I know you don't like me, but that's no reason to hijack my thread.
I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone. I'm not trying to prove my characters better or that I'm smarter or a better RPer or that I've spent more time clicking on monsters than the 14-year olds with nothing to do... I'm trying to have fun, and I believe a certain general order should be established to make this possible at a higher level than chaos.
Please, I'm talking about RP fighting, if you've never done it or aren't interested, don't post, but don't post saying that the whole idea sucks and we're morons for doing it. That's just foolish and insulting.
Gharan, I don't know anything about a special power. I RP a wizard, and so can use magic, this is not a "special power" it's what I do. If you're saying can everyone have one super-hero type power aside from their normal character abilities and RP, the answer would be no, of course not. If someone is a great mage who can set himself on fire and not get hurt, stab him with something long-handled.
@Kezzik: Exactly.
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One thing I ask is are we all allowed one special power?
I found myself in an RP with a player who proceeded to set his self on fire so we could not go near him and claimed we are allowed one such power.He used his red way to it (RPing obviously) and it's bugged me whether this would be considered godmodding or his RP just truly outwitted my own.
I also have to say it made it harder to RP with him as how would you get the better of someone who RPs like that?
I'm not having a go at the person I'm just trying to clarify what happened.
There are no rules, that's the problem.
All we've been told is, Don't be God.
So theoretically someone could be really powerfull with lots of special traits, but have 1 or 2 weaknesses.
The lack of rules creates a longer range of RP, but it presents problems like the one you mentioned.
Should we, could would, would we, Good questions.
No answers.
If i met him, i'd just move on, plenty of people to talk to.
~~Datruth
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@Kezzik: Exactly.
/me hugs Phin
warm fuzzies! I owe you an ale at Kada's!
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Well i have to say if people want to use such powers then so be it but personally my character Isn't the sort of character to use such things so I'll take Phin's advice and next time I'll stab him with a claymore.My magic skills are actually very good (maxed 3 ways) not that maxing matters but the only glyphs i carry are Energy and Arrow so for me to RP a red way phenomena for me would be stupid as I'm not carrying any.Infact my characters a fighter through and through but with me carrying only crystal way could i add to my char that he is exeptionally wise in the crystal way?
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I've explained that I don't and cannot level, therefore I cannot duel to the same extent that my character should be able to.
So you have no way to prove how strong you are except the amount of time you've spent talking.
Basically, your strength= Amount of time in game & Talking ability with use of good diction.
I think stats effect RP, if someones stats are nill, i feel that has an effect on their RP, you on the other hand feel stats are useless, the Devs disagree with you.
Please Datruth, I know you don't like me, but that's no reason to hijack my thread.
I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone. I'm not trying to prove my characters better or that I'm smarter or a better RPer or that I've spent more time clicking on monsters than the 14-year olds with nothing to do... I'm trying to have fun, and I believe a certain general order should be established to make this possible at a higher level than chaos.
I would like it stated in the PS forums record that I, Datruth, Do not hate Phineas.
I actually have some respect for him. The only thing i could say is I dislike his critiquing ability.
And this is a forum, there is no such thing as hijacking a thread.
Let me reiterate that:
fo‧rum /ˈfɔrəm, ˈfoʊrəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uhm, fohr-uhm]
an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
Please, I'm talking about RP fighting, if you've never done it or aren't interested, don't post, but don't post saying that the whole idea sucks and we're morons for doing it. That's just foolish and insulting.
I never said it was foolish, nor did i say the idea sucks.
I said, it doesn't exist. Why are you so mad lol :woot: . I don't bite :innocent:
You can't RP fight.
Look at the first post you made, basically you are asking how people become victors in an RP fight.
You don't know, yet you have an idea about it, basically, the victor is always the oldest character.
Regardless of skills, stats, popularity, or whether you rp better than them, If you are older, you win. That's just wrong. :thumbdown:
There isn't a system of how to RP fight, there are no rules, you type what you like, and then no victor is decided.
If i'm wrong, please feel free to state it and tell me how you RP fight and have a victor, what the rules are, and what the case would be if two people of equal age fought one another.
Gharan, I don't know anything about a special power. I RP a wizard, and so can use magic, this is not a "special power" it's what I do. If you're saying can everyone have one super-hero type power aside from their normal character abilities and RP, the answer would be no, of course not. If someone is a great mage who can set himself on fire and not get hurt, stab him with something long-handled.
Who are you to decide that ruling?
I happen to agree with your decision.... But who are you to decide it?
You would need agreement between everyone in Ylaikum to enforce this ruling.
That or the Dev team would tell the GM's to enforce it and write about it on the Forums.
You do not have the power to make such rulings.
@Kezzik: Exactly.
Sorry, I disagree.
Somoene could also, theoretically, come in game and a month later claim to be a powerfull mage.
What's the difference?
You say someone maxing stats in a month, very unlikely yet still possible, and I say somoene who plays for a month and says he's a powerfull mage.
Your RP ability should come into play.
If someone who is 10X the RPer of another person But has only been playing the game for 6 months has an "RP" fight, he would lose to a BAD RPER who has been on for a year.
In your system anyways.
It's flawed really. Time Doesn't equal strength. Nor does it equal intelliigence. Certain people who are 50 are dumber than average 20 year olds.
This system doesn't take ability, stats, or popularity into account.
You want to RP fight, go ahead, i don't have a problem with it, except there is no winner or loser, at the end of the fight, you both have made your fingers tired for nothing.
~~Datruth
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I'm going to completely disregard the rest of the post for sake of sanity.
however
....You say someone maxing stats in a month, very unlikely yet still possible...
Strength, Agllity, Endurance, Intelligence. 5 days.
but I still RP that I'm not strong. I have an eery feeling, it's like.. a broken record.
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I'm going to completely disregard the rest of the post for sake of sanity.
however
....You say someone maxing stats in a month, very unlikely yet still possible...
Strength, Agllity, Endurance, Intelligence. 5 days.
but I still RP that I'm not strong. I have an eery feeling, it's like.. a broken record.
Most of us have lives that stop us from constant Planeshift.
It's funny you disregarded us all.
There is school for some, Work for others, a mixture of both, or just the need to go into the great outdoors.
Regardless, we all can't spend 5 or 6 hours a day playing Planeshift.
But if you have that kind of time, be my guest.
Hence the reason i used the word, "unlikely".
~~Datruth
Disclaimer: Disregarding parts of a post might make it seem as if you agree with it, or have no rebuttal.
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Most of us have lives that stop us from constant Planeshift.
It's funny you disregarded us all.
you seem to spend plenty enough time gassing off.
I don't disregard everyone or everything, just that post.
There is school for some, Work for others, a mixture of both, or just the need to go into the great outdoors.
Regardless, we all can't spend 5 or 6 hours a day playing Planeshift.
nice way of trying to say I don't have a life because I managed to beat your 'presumtions' of the time it would take to max out some stats ingame.
But if you have that kind of time, be my guest.
Hence the reason i used the word, "unlikely".
~~Datruth
Disclaimer: Disregarding parts of a post might make it seem as if you agree with it, or have no rebuttal.
your guest? since when did you become the host.
unlikely is more common then not if that's the case then, peopel have done this much faster then I, plenty of people.
~~Kezzik i can sign my posts too! : D
Disclaimer: more of the latter, oh, and can you sense a slight hint of sarcastic bastard in me? ; )
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:flowers:
ahaha was the point of this thread to pick out each others "false or mislead" points?
Kalika hugs everyone and kisses them on teh cheek
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Being around a lot of time doesn't make you a better RPer, just like being older doesn't make you wiser IRL necessarily. It can usually be the case BUT I find it as arbitrary as using game mechanics as an only reference to determine who would be the stronger char. There has to be a balance between character personality/objective and stats to avoid both god-RP and "I'll /challenge if you look at me funny" situations. Because being "significantly stronger" than other players or not having certain skills implemented in the game are both with one foot in the OOC area.
The way I see it, your character is only as strong/powerful/beautiful RP-wise as others let you be. It's part of RP.
Let's say your character has a heated argument with someone else's and that things are getting violent, well, there's the /roll command to determine success of the actions. Why use it? Because it's impartial. Both characters should have a margin of success as well as failure and that should never be left out no matter what mechs or rules are resorted to. You've been around for a long time and consistent about your skills (in other words you didn't wake up today and said "I had Talad for tea and he made me a mutant") so your chances of success are rather high. This is all negotiable. If the person you're talking to refuses to do this little OOC negotiation... er... [rant]because they are not able to accept that their chars should have limitations, probably because they build them as improved/impossible/picture perfect/front cover versions of themselves[/rant]... then not much to do there. However, it should settle the problem. You might be an uber warrior or wizard but you had a bad day and got your butt kicked.
Now, personally, I avoid RP duels, in fact I quite dislike them, especially because they allow pretty much anything*. Game mechs aren't perfect but they can be impartial and if agreed by all parties, it can settle things fairly.
Edit: I should specify I'm referring to RP-duels as in "/me jumps over <name> kicking the wall to make a 180 degree turn in mid air as his blades cut <them> in half" with no /roll or prior agreement on skills like "I can matrix" and stuff. Avoiding an impartial frame of action seems to be the problem.
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Datruth, I'm really not trying to dig at you personally here, it's just an observation... Your posts seem like a lot of hot air to me, you don't follow your own conclusions to the end.
People do RP fight. You say it doesn't exist. That's a foolish thing to say, of course it exists. I've done it. All I'm looking for is a way to keep bad RPers from ruining good RP. Truly good RPers would not create god characters, and would know in an RP fight when they are losing. Bad RPers never want to lose and not only that, they usually want to have the pleasure of crushing their opponents like ants.
I could be wrong here, but I don't think you're much of an RPer, are you? Your replies seem like the answers of a mostly non-RPer.
For clarification, I'm not asking how to RP fight. I've done that. I'm asking how we're going to keep the power level of characters from turning into total chaos. Usually, when people RP fight on, say, a forum, it's a small group and so everyone knows their roles and their strengths and weaknesses in relation to the rest of the players. It's not like that in an mmorpg, so I'm looking to establish some vague uniformity.
You accuse me of saying that I'm equating power with amount of time spent in-game talking to people. Very well, I'll accuse you of equating power with the amount of time spent in-game clicking on things. Why is one so much better than the other? The game is about having fun. If you enjoy levelling, be my guest, I however, enjoy RP. What's wrong with that? I'm not going to go up to a powerlever and say, "I pwn you 'cuz I RP awesome!" So why would you even care what RP fighting is all about if you're not going to do it?
As for who am I to make a ruling on things... It's common sense. You're telling me that cheating isn't bad until everyone in the whole world votes and says it's bad? Some people don't like my criticism. Who are they to make that ruling? Did they ask everyone in the PS community and talk to the devs to get a ruling saying Phin's criticism is bad? That's just nonsensical.
As for you saying that my system is flawed, I would say that your perception of RP is flawed. Like I said above, this system is meant only to protect the good RPers from the bad ones, not to be written in stone and repeated to your children every day and twice on Monday. This system doesn't say that Sangwa would kick my butt 'cause he's been on a year longer than me, or that I would kick Peacer's butt 'cause I've been on longer than him. It's simply saying that someone can't show up and say, "I'm t3h awesome!" without anything to back it up. For levellers that would be levelling, for RPers that would be this system.
Again, this is a temporary fix until the game is more developed at which time hopefully it will be more balanced and not require us to make up our own supplementary systems.
I'm sorry I didn't quote your post with answers to each section as I realize I should have done now. I understand now what Kezzik meant about ignoring your post for the sake of sanity.
edit:
Game mechs aren't perfect but they can be impartial and if agreed by all parties, it can settle things fairly.
Most of your post is answered in this one, but I'd like to point out that game mechs are definitely not impartial to "pure" mages. Also, about avoiding RP fights. This is not a thread saying everyone should now forget the game mechanics or the dueling ability and simply RP fight. Like I said, if you don't want to, don't do it. I'm trying to talk to and with the people who do.
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Now, personally, I avoid RP duels, in fact I quite dislike them, especially because they allow pretty much anything. Game mechs aren't perfect but they can be impartial and if agreed by all parties, it can settle things fairly.
Couldn't agree more infact most RP duels end up OOC were one is accusing the other of godmodding etc
Just break out the Silverweaves and have a good old scrap ;D
EDIT but don't forget to RP your way into the fight ;)
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Most of us have lives that stop us from constant Planeshift.
It's funny you disregarded us all.
you seem to spend plenty enough time gassing off.
I don't disregard everyone or everything, just that post.
Well thank you, I'm glad my post was special enough to be disregarded. :D
I am deeply touched by the way. :'(
There is school for some, Work for others, a mixture of both, or just the need to go into the great outdoors.
Regardless, we all can't spend 5 or 6 hours a day playing Planeshift.
nice way of trying to say I don't have a life because I managed to beat your 'presumtions' of the time it would take to max out some stats ingame.
I never said that. All i said was that most people don't have that kind of time.
Please tell me that most people can max their stats in 5 days.
Just say it and your point is valid and then we can argue about whose presumptions are more correct.
I know you won't because even you know it takes an astounding amount of effort to get your stats maxed in 5 days.
The kind of effort that most people don't have the time to give.
But if you have that kind of time, be my guest.
Hence the reason i used the word, "unlikely".
~~Datruth
Disclaimer: Disregarding parts of a post might make it seem as if you agree with it, or have no rebuttal.
your guest? since when did you become the host.
unlikely is more common then not if that's the case then, peopel have done this much faster then I, plenty of people.
~~Kezzik i can sign my posts too! : D
Disclaimer: more of the latter, oh, and can you sense a slight hint of sarcastic bastard in me? ; )
Lol, be my guest is an expression, not to be taken literally. If your being sarcastic well.... not funny ::|
Oh and what does this mean:
"unlikely is more common then not if that's the case then, peopel have done this much faster then I, plenty of people."
Does that mean that on average people max their stats in 5 days? If so... :lol: :lol:, Funny joke lol, let's get serious though.
Ya, i like the post signing thing, guess it helps me be more unique, oh and it's copywrited now sorry >o) ;D.
My lawyers will be over in an hour demanding royalties or giving you your lawsuit papers lol.
~Datruth
Disclaimer: Just had to put this here, no actual reason for it though lol :woot:
*edit*
I'm sorry I didn't quote your post with answers to each section as I realize I should have done now. I understand now what Kezzik meant about ignoring your post for the sake of sanity.
Lol, Good point, i'll try that.
It's better than trying to defend attacks to my character anyway or my RP ability. :thumbup:
Some would morally stay away from such attacks but I guess i should adopt other methods for you and be prepared for them.
~~Datruth
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Well thank you, I'm glad my post was special enough to be disregarded. :D
I am deeply touched by the way. :'(
nice for you
I never said that. All i said was that most people don't have that kind of time.
Please tell me that most people can max their stats in 5 days.
Just say it and your point is valid and then we can argue about whose presumptions are more correct.
"I never said" ooh, text book run away excuse.
i said 'plenty' not most, and there are indeed plenty of people who can do things a lot faster then me, and it takes less time then you realise, if you know where to go and what to do.
if you want to continue this completely pointless 'arguement' PM it to me so i can giggle at your futile efforts as i click the delete button
I know you won't because even you know it takes an astounding amount of effort to get your stats maxed in 5 days.
The kind of effort that most people don't have the time to give.
wait am i missing something here?
/me checks his pants..
no, I have them on... effort? heck no, <click monster, click attack, click loot, repeat til desired PP gained, go to trainer, select skill, clcik buy skill until PP is used up or money runs out, mine gold..>
Lol, be my guest is an expression, not to be taken literally. If your being sarcastic well.... not funny ::|
if I was trying to entertain you I'd want my pay in advance
Oh and what does this mean:
keep reading it until you understand.
are we quite done? I was enjoying my intellectual Discussion with Phin before you came and posted :]
oh, and don't double post :)
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Pure mages, just like bards, will have it rough with game mechs for a while. Still, a plain /roll to determine whether a certain spell was cast successfully or not isn't too hard a compromise, is it? Again, I think it's fair to claim that you have a character that should have a high chance of success but you should never have a 100% rate all the time.
This is not a thread saying everyone should now forget the game mechanics or the dueling ability and simply RP fight. Like I said, if you don't want to, don't do it. I'm trying to talk to and with the people who do.
I've come across players who really enjoy their RP-duels and even though I avoid them (the RP-duels) myself, I don't go about disregarding other players' fun nor their opinions on the subject. Your thread is about how to determine the victor and I addressed that trying not to impose my own preferences.
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I have to say here coming from a background of much pen/paper roll play and some theater training that just making up some stuff about yourself with little regard for anything other than what you want is not good role play. There has to be well defined parameters to guide the play. Things must be kept in context and extremes reigned in. One problem with this game as it stands now is that the "rules" are kind of nebulous. The context is fairly well defined but there are still holes you could drive an ulber-cart through (if you could find a way of controlling the ulber that is.) What is there now that would prevent me from claiming to have a cart pulled by a juvenile ulbernaut and going from town to town trading in consumer coccoon silk garments? Absolutely nothing. Would I make any money selling the emperors new clothes? I might if I roleplayed well enough that I convinced someone to play along. They might even add their new garment to their discription and so validify my claims.
This is how you win a roleplay fight, by being creative enough that your opponent concedes victory. It will not be common though because people are what they are and few will want to admit defeat. There is one other way that I can think of and that is by the judgement of the bystanders. If you cannot convince your opponent to admit defeat then the outcome of the battle cannot be other than what the tale of it becomes. Sadly this means that it will be something of a popularity contest as if the audience is made up of biased people the judgement will be biased. I think that in most cases the judgement ought to be "two lunatics deluded themselves into thinking they had a great battle but all I saw was a lot of gesticulating and a bunch of incomprehesible screaming." I say this because you really should not be able to role play outside the context of the game. What, you say you are a great mage? Well I have to tell you that as it stands magic is pretty weak. Certainly I have not experienced all the magic that is possible in the game and not all magic has been revealed to the "mortals" yet. You should not be able to role play things that will never be in the game.
/me, the greatest mage evarrr hitches his pants summoning the mighty hippogryph and flies off to Valhalla to woo seven Valkeries.
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Phinehas to n00b dictionary:
No one should play the role of a character that they, the player, do not have the roleplaying skills to support. The game mechanics are there to guide players to having good RP skills....in theory. Problem is a lot of folks don't have enough PP to purchase that theory.
RP fighting has no limits besides what players themselves set. And you (many players) are setting those limits too high.
Roleplaying is not about playing your strengths, it is about overcoming your weaknesses. And it is sad to so so many 'characters' have no weakness. I put an empasis on characters because those types do not exist to my characters. I have run into godmodders and tweakers before. I give them advice on what they are doing wrong and how to adapt to make RPing with them more enjoyable. If that fails, they get the 'little-boy-with-wooden-swords' treatment.
You should always temper your RP to be enjoyable to both yourself and other players. Roleplaying is not a single player event centered on just you.
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Pure mages, just like bards, will have it rough with game mechs for a while. Still, a plain /roll to determine whether a certain spell was cast successfully or not isn't too hard a compromise, is it? Again, I think it's fair to claim that you have a character that should have a high chance of success but you should never have a 100% rate all the time.
This is not a thread saying everyone should now forget the game mechanics or the dueling ability and simply RP fight. Like I said, if you don't want to, don't do it. I'm trying to talk to and with the people who do.
See, this in my opinion is already an example of lesser RP. When I fight my magic wielding is not made up of "Phinehas casts freeze on Kezzik. Kezzik dodges. Kezzik slices at Phinehas with a dagger." Those are the sorts of things you can roll for. That is boring. The RP fights I've taken part in, if you have good partners, are made up of attacks and counterattacks where each player is honest to himself about his player's abilities and admits when an attack would have hit him and when it wouldn't have. That is true RP. I know Phinehas can't dodge for squat. If he hit you with his stick you wouldn't even notice. On the other hand, his mind is extremely powerful, so I obviously do what I can to play on that. Yet, although there are fairly few who can verify this, I would say that though I consider Phinehas to be an extremely powerful mage, I still fight fair, and am not above losing a fight, however irreparable the damage to his dignity.
I've come across players who really enjoy their RP-duels and even though I avoid them (the RP-duels) myself, I don't go about disregarding other players' fun nor their opinions on the subject. Your thread is about how to determine the victor and I addressed that trying not to impose my own preferences.
Once again, although my thread topic has the word "victor" in it, it's not just about how to win an RP battle. It's about how to protect good RPers, people who know that their characters are mortal and will most likely lose battles now and then, from bad RPers, people who want to be extremely powerful and win everything.
It's better than trying to defend attacks to my character anyway or my RP ability. :thumbup:
Some would morally stay away from such attacks but I guess i should adopt other methods for you and be prepared for them.
~~Datruth
I'm sorry if I've offended you. Let's say I find your particular brand of logic to be somewhat airy. Your statements are simply your opinion and you don't seem to be willing to move on from there. I'm trying to achieve a good system of RP fighting. You say RP fighting doesn't exist and the only way anyone could ever decide a battle is by using the game mechanics. Not extremely helpful.
As for your ability to RP, I've not said you're a bad RPer, I've said that you obviously don't have too much experience if you didn't know that RP fights do, in fact, exist.
This is how you win a roleplay fight, by being creative enough that your opponent concedes victory.
I agree with what you say about convincing your opponent to admit defeat. Yet what I'm talking about AGAIN, is not RP fights between truly good RPers, it's about when a bad one is involved. When you have a poor RPer who comes up and says, "I suck all the magic out of your body, leaving a shell of a man that I quickly destroy with my fireball," the good RPer is left with two responses. A. He can go OOC and talk and explain and rant and convince and appeal to GM's and Devs and God and the world as we know it, which usually sucks all the fun right out of an RP and leaves him with a headache and everyone else frustrated at him "making a big deal out of nothing", or B. he can admit defeat and be frustrated but at least not have a headache or ruined the fun for everyone else around him. I'm looking for a third option, an option that says, "No, you're not that powerful, because..."
It will not be common though because people are what they are and few will want to admit defeat. There is one other way that I can think of and that is by the judgement of the bystanders. If you cannot convince your opponent to admit defeat then the outcome of the battle cannot be other than what the tale of it becomes. Sadly this means that it will be something of a popularity contest as if the audience is made up of biased people the judgement will be biased.
I admit that this is a good idea, to some extent. I would not say that every time someone wants to RP a fight they should gather a crowd to watch and judge, I'm saying that it would be good for possible bystanders to step in at needed times and give objective comments about the feasability of an act. When I almost fought this newish guy yesterday, Peacer came to watch. I didn't end up fighting the guy, but I appreciated Peacer's support, because I had suspicions that this man would have been the type to try and kill me outright, and it was good to have Peacer there to keep things fair and lend some rational advice so it wasn't just the two of us yelling at each other about whether or not one person could or could not do a certain thing...
I think that in most cases the judgement ought to be "two lunatics deluded themselves into thinking they had a great battle but all I saw was a lot of gesticulating and a bunch of incomprehesible screaming." I say this because you really should not be able to role play outside the context of the game. What, you say you are a great mage? Well I have to tell you that as it stands magic is pretty weak. Certainly I have not experienced all the magic that is possible in the game and not all magic has been revealed to the "mortals" yet. You should not be able to role play things that will never be in the game.
I agree that right now magic is fairly weak, but it is not my understanding at all that it's going to be so for the whole extent of the game. So I'm not "RPing things that will never be in the game," as you put it.
And Under: "Phinehas to n00b dictionary:" what did that mean? For the rest though, you're right. Still, being who Phinehas is, he doesn't take to insults well, and things tend to get ugly. Especially when everyone starts prying into why he always winces when he sits and he takes offense at their prying and tells them to get lost and they take offense at that, and pretty soon if they have any backbone they're telling Phinehas that he's going to die a gruesome death behind the tavern and he's saying bring it on... etc. etc. You get the point. That's when fights happen. For the rest, you're completely right, and I know you know that I know that. That was fun to type.
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[When you have a poor RPer who comes up and says, "I suck all the magic out of your body, leaving a shell of a man that I quickly destroy with my fireball," the good RPer is left with two responses. A. He can go OOC and talk and explain and rant and convince and appeal to GM's and Devs and God and the world as we know it, which usually sucks all the fun right out of an RP and leaves him with a headache and everyone else frustrated at him "making a big deal out of nothing", or B. he can admit defeat and be frustrated but at least not have a headache or ruined the fun for everyone else around him. I'm looking for a third option, an option that says, "No, you're not that powerful, because..."
C. /me falls to the ground motionless and completely charred ....
Some time later after opponent has left.
/me gets up brushes the dirt off his clothes muttering "when will these deluded mages get some sense."
D. /me looks quietly at madman and says kindly "Poor fool lost in dreamland. Should have been more careful playing with powers beyond his grasp." Then you walk away.
C is quick and painless. It assumes familiarity with minor illusion which is not really in context but not too far of a stretch.
D is a little more troublesome because it will likely annoy him but that is his problem.
No-one can force you to accept the impossible. The person who wins is the one with the most realistic play. If both are realistic nobody loses regardless of the outcome.
Personally I hope, but do not expect, that all this in-game typing can someday be relegated to the dust-bin of history otherwise there is no real point to the graphical and game mechanic overhead.
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C wouldn't work for Phinehas, and as for D, like you said, he's likely to get annoyed, which is not where I'm trying to go. I agree that no one can force you to accept the impossible, but essentially, if you really want to roleplay, you're not just looking to keep the other guy from taking advantage of you, you're looking to get him to RP better as well so that you can enjoy yourselves. That's why I like the idea of intervention of bystanders, if a person's at least somewhat with it, then they'll listen when more than one person is telling them the same thing. If they don't, then we move on to other plans, such as Under's.
And I hope with you for that future, as I said, what I'm looking at is a temporary problem-solving.
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There was one new point brought up that should be addressed.
Bystandards.
If you have 1 or 2 Good RPers, to judge the fight, maybe they can help resolve the conflicts of RP fights.
Currently, if it's just you and a person, there are no real rules, and there is no victor in an RP fight.
As bilbolous said before, someone just concedes because he feels he's been gotten the better of.
But what about this:
2 people agree to RP duel with 2 Witnesses who will judge the outcome and fix any mistakes with the RP fight.
After the fight is over the Judges decide who wins.
This, I believe, would be the answer to your problems and would make RP fights very formal and realistic.
Besides this, there are no real rules as to who the winner is, and it's all a matter of opinion.
~~Datruth
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Alright first let me just mention this....
[rant]At the moment it is extremely easy to level and does not take much effort, especially if you fight.
I had a large project to work on one weekend and decided Kira need to be anti-social for a while and do some training. I went about my working randomly switching over to click a monster or run to a NPC for training then returned to my work again. I continued to do this without really paying attention to how Kira was progressing and I was quite shocked when I found that after a seemingly short amount of time I had maxed a stat. I continued my work and by the end of the weekend I had finished my project and maxed a few more. I have not trained much with her since, unless as a group or collecting items for something, because I find training, bluntly put, boring. Not only that but my RP hardly ever leaves me with enough free time to actually get round to do any proper training.[/rant]
Anyway to get back to topic I believe RP duels and regular duels usually appeal to different people (Sometimes people prefer both). Mixing RP and actual stats and skills depends on personal choice and before a fight this preference should be mentioned OOC by both parties and the type of fight (RP or not RP) should be decided on to prevent misunderstandings.
Currently, if it's just you and a person, there are no real rules, and there is no victor in an RP fight.
There are always rules - Society evolves around making and breaking them. There is a winner in properly played out RP duel just as there is a winner in a normal one. The only difference being that in a RP duel I can tip my beer mug out over your head and then slap you across the face with a wet fish where as this does not work quite so well in a normal dual.
2 people agree to RP duel with 2 Witnesses who will judge the outcome and fix any mistakes with the RP fight.
After the fight is over the Judges decide who wins.
This, I believe, would be the answer to your problems and would make RP fights very formal and realistic.
Besides this, there are no real rules as to who the winner is, and it's all a matter of opinion.
~~Datruth
I must disagree with you. Although having people around to give their opinions and keep things realistic, it is not always possible or practical to do this in actual RP situations.
For instance I can not see two drunks angrily arguing over something completely trivial calmly agreeing to take a break from their bickering to find themselves two witnesses. This would be useful in a more formal challenge but not in random fights. I do not think RP battles really contain mistakes, just some extreme cases of over exaggeration and slightly wild imaginations.
Finding a solution to this problem however… I do not believe there is one. Although there can be rules to RP most of the rules are unwritten ones. It is impossible to write them all down without completely destroying the very point of RP itself. There will always be something unexpected that will bend or break these rules.
You always find those people who try and play the unstoppable almost godlike character and refuse to back down. I have lost a lot more RP duels than I have normal ones simply because I get bored of people trying to pretend they know no such thing as fatigue and that they are able to dodge every attack I make.
I think perhaps UTM’s little-boy-with-wooden-swords method works best but even this I can see will easily be abused by people even against those who do not deserve such treatment.
At the moment the rules are very vague and the best one can do is try and help people to RP better. It is important to keep IC and stay true to your characters personality and abilities. You should know the limits of your character and know when defeat is inevitable. People do not like to admit defeat, but even with two very well matched opponents, limits will be reached and energy will run out. The trick is to admit when it is you that have reached your limit. The only solution I see is a better understanding of realistic RP with fewer attempts at being all super powered. All that is needed to keep the RP fun and realistic at the same time is the use of common sense and some respect towards the people you are trying to RP with.
*Takes a deep breath then breathes it out again* Wow, now where did all that come from?
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/me enters the thread and get's hugged as well as kissed on the cheek
*Takes a deep breath then breathes it out again* Wow, now where did all that come from?
The intelligent mind i told you you had?
anyway i agree completely with Kiraki... i don't rp my game mech skills as my characters actual skills, that's just wrong as he wouldn't be able to mix potions because he had 0 alchemy...
also many seems to think that rp'ing is about how imaginary you are and how good you can describe what your character do... NO it's not... rp'ing means to roleplay someone, a fictional character which has a personality, feelings, thoughts and own opinions... you need to make him act like his personality would make him act, that's the hard part, yeah i know i'm going a bit offtopic... but this is just a clarification... If you want to play more than just a swordfighter don't use your same character, he would probably have used his whole life training swords and won't become a master... whatever... assasin, mage in just a month... it would tear down his life work and what he has used to build up so many years just to start a new skill from scratch...
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W00. Voice of experience from years past:
I fought Draklar (and lost) back in MB. Previous to the duel, we set up a point system based on time in community. We then rolled a number of times to determine the outcome. I lost, but unwilling to die, I slunk out wounded stealthily and escaped to live another day. The keys here are that:
1.) Both players must be willing to lose.
2.) Rolls are a good impartial measure.
I'm designing a new character (a celebrity chef) that's a complete coward who will probably die several times. Should be a lot more fun than Monketh, who mysteriously vanishes when on the verge of death.
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Once again, although my thread topic has the word "victor" in it, it's not just about how to win an RP battle. It's about how to protect good RPers, people who know that their characters are mortal and will most likely lose battles now and then, from bad RPers, people who want to be extremely powerful and win everything.
I agree with Monketh. I think that there isn't a preceeding solution to the RP fights to determine who would win that wouldn't be arbitrary and OOC. It's a matter of agreement among all players involved every time there is such a situation. The key is that all characters are subject to failure and they should be consistent about it. When someone refuses to play like that it simply becomes annoying. How can you protect yourself from giving the other player the satisfaction of getting away with a victory they God-RP in order to get? I don't know but having points of some sort assigned to characters as they spend time in-game has the potential of becoming another way of PLing and fail at preventing any God-RPing.
In my experience, if players are consistent with the fact that their characters aren't superheroes/gods it doesn't take much time to set the rules of engagement. Just a few /tells or keeping all the OOC in /group works fine. However, when you gotta negotiate every single entry that's a sign the RP isn't going smoothly. Any "[you can't]/[I can]" argument taking over the conversation is worth saying "I see this is futile, I shall remember this encounter and find a way to deal with you that won't be a waste of my time" and walking away, no real winner announced (mainly because at least one of the parties refuses to accept the possibility of losing).
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C wouldn't work for Phinehas,
I'm not quite sure why this wouldn't work. Can he not do illusion when necessary? Perhaps that small addition to his character would be in order. He can't fall to the ground? Well it is an illusion so he could actually just stand there only appearing to crumble. Or is it because you cannot humor what you consider to be poor RP? Is Phineous so testy that he must destroy the staving untrained talent who dares to steal telekinetically a morsel of food from your plate? If so how did he ever get so powerful without being destroyed himself?
Personally I don't do too much in the way of RP about the most I've done is sit leaning against a tree watching the smiths work while humming a nonsense tune or related a shaggy dog story about the origins of Kran. I have had a few convesations otherwise that were couched in IC terms but could just as well as have happened in a gym or educational facility of some sort. To me a lot of the role play that goes on is like the little boy who is being ignored by the adults conversing so he pulls down his pants to show off his little pride and joy just to get attention.
If your role play powers are all that you claim (and I make no judgement about that) isn't it incumbant upon you to act charitably towards others with lesser powers? I'm not sure whether there is any in context morality towards the exercise of the available powers, there probably isn't but perhaps there should be.
I am just expounding on the topic using you as example because you initiated the thread. I do not have enough in-game experience with your character to make any kind of definitive claim and am mostly responding to what you have said in this thread and some others I have seen on the forums lately.
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I can answer this! :D
I'm not quite sure why this wouldn't work. Can he not do illusion when necessary? Perhaps that small addition to his character would be in order. He can't fall to the ground? Well it is an illusion so he could actually just stand there only appearing to crumble. Or is it because you cannot humor what you consider to be poor RP? Is Phineous so testy that he must destroy the staving untrained talent who dares to steal telekinetically a morsel of food from your plate? If so how did he ever get so powerful without being destroyed himself?
Phinehas doesn't have the patience for ignorant whelps.
if Phinehas fell to the ground he wouldn't be able to get back up, dicrepit.
Phinehas wouldn't have the patience to just stand there and let some wannabe great mage think he's beating a real great mage.
Phinehas just wouldn't interact with poor RP.
yes.
Phinehas kept to himself, studied his bony backside off and dissappeared for a long time to study with some other mages.
is that close enough Phin? do I get a cookie? :D
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I can answer this! :D
If so how did he ever get so powerful without being destroyed himself?
Phinehas kept to himself, studied his bony backside off and dissappeared for a long time to study with some other mages.
is that close enough Phin? do I get a cookie? :D
Do you mean to say that some other mages put up with his testiness and didn't teach him any humility? Were they evil or something?
I'd have that cookie tested if I were you. He might want to destroy you for daring to speak for him. :devil:
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bong (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=17588.0)
you'd do well to read and praise x3
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@Kiraki: Brilliant! I loved your post.
@Zhai and Monketh: Once again, we're not talking about fights between two good RPers, we're talking about when one isn't so good.
@bilbous: What Kezzik said.
@Kezzik: Brilliant! Have a chocolate chip cookie and a mug of hot chocolate to boot!
So far, the best suggestions I've seen are having other people around to "moderate" although I wouldn't do it formally because, as Kiraki pointed out, that would ruin a lot of the RP. Perhaps it would be good to make sure throught tells that a couple people you know are good RPers just happen to be around if you think you're going to get into a fight. I did this with Peacer and I think it made a huge difference.
Secondly, I'm getting the idea I hadn't really considered of talking to the person OOC in tells or something before you actually get to the point of battle and establishing some sort order to the situation.
So far so good. Any more ideas?
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to reply to the suggestions about roll... NO bad bad*slaps fingers* it would put the rp aside just for some random duel, no fun at all... you'll eventually have to find a characters weakness... imagine this
this is an overrating, but an example. Sometimes overrating brings understanding
/me ...(some of you know the deal) and throws the fireball at sleeping person with wax squished into his ear
/person rolls a 50 sided dice for a 50
/person avoids, grabs his swords and lungs his most powerful attack with his swords at Peacer
/me rolls a 50 sided dice for a 1
/me died as he stood waiting for person to get dressed, find his swords and get awake
I don't see the realism in this... do you?
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bong (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=17588.0)
you'd do well to read and praise x3
I took a look at that thread. I didn't read it. No offense but I wouldn't stand around and listen to someone telling me their life story. You won't be hearing mine. I am sure it is a fine effort for those who appreciate such things. That thread and its like seem to be a way of providing in context information in an out of context manner. If I need to know that you can tell me in game but like I implied I will likely wander off in the middle. Heck I even got tired of telling my silly Kran origin tale, My description no longer reads "Fully Encrusted Ulbernaut." That is just me though.
More power to all who enjoy it.
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to reply to the suggestions about roll... NO bad bad*slaps fingers* it would put the rp aside just for some random duel, no fun at all... you'll eventually have to find a characters weakness... imagine this
this is an overrating, but an example. Sometimes overrating brings understanding
/me ...(some of you know the deal) and throws the fireball at sleeping person with wax squished into his ear
/person rolls a 50 sided dice for a 50
/person avoids, grabs his swords and lungs his most powerful attack with his swords at Peacer
/me rolls a 50 sided dice for a 1
/me died as he stood waiting for person to get dressed, find his swords and get awake
I don't see the realism in this... do you?
Why? Because nobody can ever beat Peacer? Sometimes you'll /roll a 1 and sometimes you'll /roll a 50... the numbers required to succeed can vary depending on the action and skills of the character. So, chances can be 30%-70%, 10%-90%, 50%-50%, 80%-20% and so on. You'll have to agree on what rate works for both players so, if you accept to do a /roll 50 for a high number and you get a 1, you should should fail at whatever you were trying to do. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
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I took a look at that thread. I didn't read it. No offense but I wouldn't stand around and listen to someone telling me their life story. You won't be hearing mine. I am sure it is a fine effort for those who appreciate such things. That thread and its like seem to be a way of providing in context information in an out of context manner. If I need to know that you can tell me in game but like I implied I will likely wander off in the middle. Heck I even got tired of telling my silly Kran origin tale, My description no longer reads "Fully Encrusted Ulbernaut." That is just me though.
More power to all who enjoy it.
then I don't see a relevance in your previous statement if you cannot be bothered to put in a little effort, sorry, but you gotta give to take
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The problem with your example, Peacer, is that you're only using one one roll to decide what would normally be decided by a number of ongoing rolls.
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then I don't see a relevance in your previous statement if you cannot be bothered to put in a little effort, sorry, but you gotta give to take
I am not sure which previous statement you don't find relevant. I don't suppose it matters. I'm just saying that if something is important to know it bears repeating. The bit about his character was not germain to the topic and not something we need to pursue.
I would like to suggest that if we had started discussing him in game, in context, you pointing to his character history forum post would be out of context. Of course, that is not what happened but it is how it felt to me. It is a pain in the butt to always be telling new people our history but that is how personal connections are made. We also find out about people by talking to other people who have associated with them one way or another. We rarely find out about people we meet by reading personal histories.
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I think he meant the part where you were telling me to play dead and do all those other things that would be totally OOC for Phinehas. I admit that it's part of RP to tell others about yourself over and over, just like you do in real life, much to my chagrin. But to be honest, isn't there an element that you just can't be bothered to read other people's background stories? I mean, in a world where we're all supposedly living in fairly close contact, chances are we've heard about each other a lot more than what we manage to say in-game. Therefore a back story is a good way for a person to have been able to hear about another person, which is completely realistic within the PS world to some extent. Ignore the last bit and answer the question, you don't have to post an answer, but isn't the concept of not liking reading background stories just a tad subjective?
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isn't the concept of not liking reading background stories just a tad subjective?
Absolutely. Did I not imply it? I also said it is fine for those who like it. Then I went on to say some extraneous things to justify my position. You needn't allow yourself to be convinced by my half-hearted explainations.
As far as playing dead goes why would you waste energy on someone clearly not worth it? It seems to me it would take less magical energy to humor fools than to destroy them. Same story to me as sucking gold out of the ground. You could even make it an art form that clearly makes a mockery of them in the process. Such a thing might look like, using the original fireball example, chain exploding potions, melting swords, the bar set ablaze etc. In other words make his cheesey little fireball into an event far beyond his imagination.
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Again, that's just not who Phinehas is. If someone else is more prone to that sort of thing, I have no problem with it, but not Phinehas.
isn't the concept of not liking reading background stories just a tad subjective?
Absolutely. Did I not imply it? I also said it is fine for those who like it. Then I went on to say some extraneous things to justify my position. You needn't allow yourself to be convinced by my half-hearted explainations.
Fair enough.
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to reply to the suggestions about roll... NO bad bad*slaps fingers* it would put the rp aside just for some random duel, no fun at all... you'll eventually have to find a characters weakness... imagine this
this is an overrating, but an example. Sometimes overrating brings understanding
/me ...(some of you know the deal) and throws the fireball at sleeping person with wax squished into his ear
/person rolls a 50 sided dice for a 50
/person avoids, grabs his swords and lungs his most powerful attack with his swords at Peacer
/me rolls a 50 sided dice for a 1
/me died as he stood waiting for person to get dressed, find his swords and get awake
I don't see the realism in this... do you?
Why? Because nobody can ever beat Peacer? Sometimes you'll /roll a 1 and sometimes you'll /roll a 50... the numbers required to succeed can vary depending on the action and skills of the character. So, chances can be 30%-70%, 10%-90%, 50%-50%, 80%-20% and so on. You'll have to agree on what rate works for both players so, if you accept to do a /roll 50 for a high number and you get a 1, you should should fail at whatever you were trying to do. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
Yeah... no one can beat me...
I've never used rolls in a duel because i wouldn't have the need to, i've never used it and probably will never
isn't the concept of not liking reading background stories just a tad subjective?
Absolutely. Did I not imply it? I also said it is fine for those who like it. Then I went on to say some extraneous things to justify my position. You needn't allow yourself to be convinced by my half-hearted explainations.
As far as playing dead goes why would you waste energy on someone clearly not worth it? It seems to me it would take less magical energy to humor fools than to destroy them. Same story to me as sucking gold out of the ground. You could even make it an art form that clearly makes a mockery of them in the process. Such a thing might look like, using the original fireball example, chain exploding potions, melting swords, the bar set ablaze etc. In other words make his cheesey little fireball into an event far beyond his imagination.
And if that fireball hits some withdrawn hay into the tavern which is near the bar?
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And if that fireball hits some withdrawn hey into the tavern which is near the bar?
I am not quite sure what "some withdrawn hey" is but my example was of illusionarily excessive effect so no harm would be done. Now somebody witnessing the event might get traumatized but that is a different story.
Again, that's just not who Phinehas is
So I infer from this that by writing down the characters past history it has been calcified and there is no room for any experience that could cause character growth. To me Role Play is meant to be a living process and not a static snapshot. Your opinion may be different or you may not agree with these terms. I would be interested in hearing about it.
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And if that fireball hits some withdrawn hey into the tavern which is near the bar?
I am not quite sure what "some withdrawn hey" is but my example was of illusionarily excessive effect so no harm would be done. Now somebody witnessing the event might get traumatized but that is a different story.
*hay
My bad sorry
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I kind of thought so, it was the withdrawn part that puzzled me most. I suppose you meant harvested or cut hay. Of course if the original fireball hits the hay the fire will spread. And when I "hit the hay, " I sleep for four to eight hours...it being a slang term for going to bed.
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Again, that's just not who Phinehas is
So I infer from this that by writing down the characters past history it has been calcified and there is no room for any experience that could cause character growth. To me Role Play is meant to be a living process and not a static snapshot. Your opinion may be different or you may not agree with these terms. I would be interested in hearing about it.
I'd love to go in-depth into who Phinehas is and why he'll never change in the ways that you are suggesting he possibly should, but that's not really on-topic. If you really want to discuss that sort of thing, either start another thread, or just pm me I suppose. For the record, I do agree that RP is not static, and that your character should be constantly changing and growing like a real person.
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Good enough you have your reasons, I don't need to hear them.
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It's more about who Phinehas is as a personality than my OOC reasons. Some people will just never become totally different people. Just had to say that so you wouldn't think I was brushing you off.
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I don't think there is any real difference between the reasons you give your characters and the reasons your characters think are their own, if that makes any sense at all...It is just nice to know that there is thought behind it. The Black(?) Flame knows you don't need to justify them to me, it just came up in conversation.
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I don't think there is any real difference between the reasons you give your characters and the reasons your characters think are their own, if that makes any sense at all...It is just nice to know that there is thought behind it. The Black(?) Flame knows you don't need to justify them to me, it just came up in conversation.
Mmm... you don't know me very well, I suppose. But yes, be reassured that I put more thought into Phinehas than a lot people put into any two or three of their characters.
Anyway, as a wannabe writer, I believe that a lot of times you create a character, and then what happens from there on out just happens, it's not you thinking of what should happen and making it happen, it just naturally takes place. Perhaps Under could help me to explain this, I'm guessing he knows what I mean.