Author Topic: The RP victor!  (Read 3371 times)

Phinehas

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2006, 11:00:33 am »
C wouldn't work for Phinehas, and as for D, like you said, he's likely to get annoyed, which is not where I'm trying to go. I agree that no one can force you to accept the impossible, but essentially, if you really want to roleplay, you're not just looking to keep the other guy from taking advantage of you, you're looking to get him to RP better as well so that you can enjoy yourselves. That's why I like the idea of intervention of bystanders, if a person's at least somewhat with it, then they'll listen when more than one person is telling them the same thing. If they don't, then we move on to other plans, such as Under's.

And I hope with you for that future, as I said, what I'm looking at is a temporary problem-solving.

Datruth

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2006, 12:45:32 pm »
There was one new point brought up that should be addressed.

Bystandards.

If you have 1 or 2 Good RPers, to judge the fight, maybe they can help resolve the conflicts of RP fights.

Currently, if it's just you and a person, there are no real rules, and there is no victor in an RP fight.

As bilbolous said before, someone just concedes because he feels he's been gotten the better of.

But what about this:

2 people agree to RP duel with 2 Witnesses who will judge the outcome and fix any mistakes with the RP fight.

After the fight is over the Judges decide who wins.

This, I believe, would be the answer to your problems and would make RP fights very formal and realistic.

Besides this, there are no real rules as to who the winner is, and it's all a matter of opinion.

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Kiraki

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2006, 03:08:17 pm »
Alright first let me just mention this....

[rant]At the moment it is extremely easy to level and does not take much effort, especially if you fight.
I had a large project to work on one weekend and decided Kira need to be anti-social for a while and do some training.  I went about my working randomly switching over to click a monster or run to a NPC for training then returned to my work again.  I continued to do this without really paying attention to how Kira was progressing and I was quite shocked when I found that after a seemingly short amount of time I had maxed a stat.  I continued my work and by the end of the weekend I had finished my project and maxed a few more.  I have not trained much with her since, unless as a group or collecting items for something, because I find training, bluntly put, boring.  Not only that but my RP hardly ever leaves me with enough free time to actually get round to do any proper training.[/rant]

Anyway to get back to topic I believe RP duels and regular duels usually appeal to different people (Sometimes people prefer both). Mixing RP and actual stats and skills depends on personal choice and before a fight this preference should be mentioned  OOC by both parties and the type of fight (RP or not RP) should be decided on to prevent misunderstandings.

Currently, if it's just you and a person, there are no real rules, and there is no victor in an RP fight.

There are always rules - Society evolves around making and breaking them.  There is a winner in properly played out RP duel just as there is a winner in a normal one.  The only difference being that in a RP duel I can tip my beer mug out over your head and then slap you across the face with a wet fish where as this does not work quite so well in a normal dual.

2 people agree to RP duel with 2 Witnesses who will judge the outcome and fix any mistakes with the RP fight.

After the fight is over the Judges decide who wins.

This, I believe, would be the answer to your problems and would make RP fights very formal and realistic.

Besides this, there are no real rules as to who the winner is, and it's all a matter of opinion.

~~Datruth

I must disagree with you.  Although having people around to give their opinions and keep things realistic, it is not always possible or practical to do this in actual RP situations. 
For instance I can not see two drunks angrily arguing over something completely trivial calmly agreeing to take a break from their bickering to find themselves two witnesses.  This would be useful in a more formal challenge but not in random fights.  I do not think RP battles really contain mistakes, just some extreme cases of over exaggeration and slightly wild imaginations.


Finding a solution to this problem however… I do not believe there is one.  Although there can be rules to RP most of the rules are unwritten ones.  It is impossible to write them all down without completely destroying the very point of RP itself.  There will always be something unexpected that will bend or break these rules.   
You always find those people who try and play the unstoppable almost godlike character and refuse to back down. I have lost a lot more RP duels than I have normal ones simply because I get bored of people trying to pretend they know no such thing as fatigue and that they are able to dodge every attack I make.
I think perhaps UTM’s little-boy-with-wooden-swords method works best but even this I can see will easily be abused by people even against those who do not deserve such treatment. 
At the moment the rules are very vague and the best one can do is try and help people to RP better.  It is important to keep IC and stay true to your characters personality and abilities. You should know the limits of your character and know when defeat is inevitable.  People do not like to admit defeat, but even with two very well matched opponents, limits will be reached and energy will run out.  The trick is to admit when it is you that have reached your limit.   The only solution I see is a better understanding of realistic RP with fewer attempts at being all super powered. All that is needed to keep the RP fun and realistic at the same time is the use of common sense and some respect towards the people you are trying to RP with.

*Takes a deep breath then breathes it out again* Wow, now where did all that come from?






Peacer

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2006, 03:39:08 pm »
* Peacer enters the thread and get's hugged as well as kissed on the cheek

*Takes a deep breath then breathes it out again* Wow, now where did all that come from?

The intelligent mind i told you you had?

anyway i agree completely with Kiraki... i don't rp my game mech skills as my characters actual skills, that's just wrong as he wouldn't be able to mix potions because he had 0 alchemy...

also many seems to think that rp'ing is about how imaginary you are and how good you can describe what your character do... NO it's not... rp'ing means to roleplay someone, a fictional character which has a personality, feelings, thoughts and own opinions... you need to make him act like his personality would make him act, that's the hard part, yeah i know i'm going a bit offtopic... but this is just a clarification... If you want to play more than just a swordfighter don't use your same character, he would probably have used his whole life training swords and won't become a master... whatever... assasin, mage in just a month... it would tear down his life work and what he has used to build up so many years just to start a new skill from scratch...
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Monketh

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2006, 07:00:52 pm »
W00.  Voice of experience from years past:

I fought Draklar (and lost) back in MB.  Previous to the duel, we set up a point system based on time in community.  We then rolled a number of times to determine the outcome.  I lost, but unwilling to die, I slunk out wounded stealthily and escaped to live another day.  The keys here are that:

1.) Both players must be willing to lose.
2.) Rolls are a good impartial measure.

I'm designing a new character (a celebrity chef) that's a complete coward who will probably die several times.  Should be a lot more fun than Monketh, who mysteriously vanishes when on the verge of death.
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zhai

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2006, 07:53:52 pm »
Quote
Once again, although my thread topic has the word "victor" in it, it's not just about how to win an RP battle. It's about how to protect good RPers, people who know that their characters are mortal and will most likely lose battles now and then, from bad RPers, people who want to be extremely powerful and win everything.

I agree with Monketh. I think that there isn't a preceeding solution to the RP fights to determine who would win that wouldn't be arbitrary and OOC. It's a matter of agreement among all players involved every time there is such a situation. The key is that all characters are subject to failure and they should be consistent about it. When someone refuses to play like that it simply becomes annoying. How can you protect yourself from giving the other player the satisfaction of getting away with a victory they God-RP in order to get? I don't know but having points of some sort assigned to characters as they spend time in-game has the potential of becoming another way of PLing and fail at preventing any God-RPing.

In my experience, if players are consistent with the fact that their characters aren't superheroes/gods it doesn't take much time to set the rules of engagement. Just a few /tells or keeping all the OOC in /group works fine. However, when you gotta negotiate every single entry that's a sign the RP isn't going smoothly. Any "[you can't]/[I can]" argument taking over the conversation is worth saying "I see this is futile, I shall remember this encounter and find a way to deal with you that won't be a waste of my time" and walking away, no real winner announced (mainly because at least one of the parties refuses to accept the possibility of losing).
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bilbous

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2006, 08:27:15 pm »
C wouldn't work for Phinehas,
I'm not quite sure why this wouldn't work. Can he not do illusion when necessary? Perhaps that small addition to his character would be in order. He can't fall to the ground? Well it is an illusion so he could actually just stand there only appearing to crumble. Or is it because you cannot humor what you consider to be poor RP? Is Phineous so testy that he must destroy the staving untrained talent who dares to steal telekinetically a morsel of food from your plate?  If so how did he ever get so powerful without being destroyed himself?

Personally I don't do too much in the way of RP about the most I've done is sit leaning against a tree watching the smiths work while humming a nonsense tune or related a shaggy dog story about the origins of Kran. I have had a few convesations otherwise that were couched in IC terms but could just as well as have happened in a gym or educational facility of some sort. To me a lot of the role play that goes on is like the little boy who is being ignored by the adults conversing so he pulls down his pants to show off his little pride and joy just to get attention.

If your role play powers are all that you claim (and I make no judgement about that) isn't it incumbant upon you to act charitably towards others with lesser powers? I'm not sure whether there is any in context morality towards the exercise of the available powers, there probably isn't but perhaps there should be.

I am just expounding on the topic using you as example because you initiated the thread. I do not have enough in-game experience with your character to make any kind of definitive claim and am mostly responding to what you have said in this thread and some others I have seen on the forums lately.

Kezzik

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2006, 08:47:35 pm »
I can answer this! :D

I'm not quite sure why this wouldn't work. Can he not do illusion when necessary? Perhaps that small addition to his character would be in order. He can't fall to the ground? Well it is an illusion so he could actually just stand there only appearing to crumble. Or is it because you cannot humor what you consider to be poor RP? Is Phineous so testy that he must destroy the staving untrained talent who dares to steal telekinetically a morsel of food from your plate?  If so how did he ever get so powerful without being destroyed himself?

Phinehas doesn't have the patience for ignorant whelps.
if Phinehas fell to the ground he wouldn't be able to get back up, dicrepit.
Phinehas wouldn't have the patience to just stand there and let some wannabe great mage think he's beating a real great mage.
Phinehas just wouldn't interact with poor RP.
yes.
Phinehas kept to himself, studied his bony backside off and dissappeared for a long time to study with some other mages.

is that close enough Phin? do I get a cookie? :D

bilbous

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2006, 08:54:06 pm »
I can answer this! :D

If so how did he ever get so powerful without being destroyed himself?


Phinehas kept to himself, studied his bony backside off and dissappeared for a long time to study with some other mages.

is that close enough Phin? do I get a cookie? :D

Do you mean to say that some other mages put up with his testiness and didn't teach him any humility? Were they evil or something?
I'd have that cookie tested if I were you. He might want to destroy you for daring to speak for him. :devil:

Kezzik

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2006, 09:08:32 pm »
bong

you'd do well to read and praise x3

Phinehas

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2006, 09:47:30 pm »
@Kiraki: Brilliant! I loved your post.
@Zhai and Monketh: Once again, we're not talking about fights between two good RPers, we're talking about when one isn't so good.
@bilbous: What Kezzik said.
@Kezzik: Brilliant! Have a chocolate chip cookie and a mug of hot chocolate to boot!

So far, the best suggestions I've seen are having other people around to "moderate" although I wouldn't do it formally because, as Kiraki pointed out, that would ruin a lot of the RP. Perhaps it would be good to make sure throught tells that a couple people you know are good RPers just happen to be around if you think you're going to get into a fight. I did this with Peacer and I think it made a huge difference.

Secondly, I'm getting the idea I hadn't really considered of talking to the person OOC in tells or something before you actually get to the point of battle and establishing some sort order to the situation.

So far so good. Any more ideas?

Peacer

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2006, 11:19:23 am »
to reply to the suggestions about roll... NO bad bad*slaps fingers* it would put the rp aside just for some random duel, no fun at all... you'll eventually have to find a characters weakness... imagine this

this is an overrating, but an example. Sometimes overrating brings understanding
* Peacer ...(some of you know the deal) and throws the fireball at sleeping person with wax squished into his ear
/person rolls a 50 sided dice for a 50
/person avoids, grabs his swords and lungs his most powerful attack with his swords at Peacer
* Peacer rolls a 50 sided dice for a 1
* Peacer died as he stood waiting for person to get dressed, find his swords and get awake
I don't see the realism in this... do you?
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bilbous

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2006, 06:17:50 pm »
bong

you'd do well to read and praise x3

I took a look at that thread. I didn't read it. No offense but I wouldn't stand around and listen to someone telling me their life story. You won't be hearing mine. I am sure it is a fine effort for those who appreciate such things. That thread and its like seem to be a way of providing in context information in an out of context manner. If I need to know that you can tell me in game but like I implied I will likely wander off in the middle. Heck I even got tired of telling my silly Kran origin tale, My description no longer reads "Fully Encrusted Ulbernaut." That is just me though.
More power to all who enjoy it.

zhai

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2006, 12:18:26 am »
to reply to the suggestions about roll... NO bad bad*slaps fingers* it would put the rp aside just for some random duel, no fun at all... you'll eventually have to find a characters weakness... imagine this

this is an overrating, but an example. Sometimes overrating brings understanding
* Peacer ...(some of you know the deal) and throws the fireball at sleeping person with wax squished into his ear
/person rolls a 50 sided dice for a 50
/person avoids, grabs his swords and lungs his most powerful attack with his swords at Peacer
* Peacer rolls a 50 sided dice for a 1
* Peacer died as he stood waiting for person to get dressed, find his swords and get awake
I don't see the realism in this... do you?

Why? Because nobody can ever beat Peacer? Sometimes you'll /roll a 1 and sometimes you'll /roll a 50... the numbers required to succeed can vary depending on the action and skills of the character. So, chances can be 30%-70%, 10%-90%, 50%-50%, 80%-20% and so on. You'll have to agree on what rate works for both players so, if you accept to do a /roll 50 for a high number and you get a 1, you should should fail at whatever you were trying to do. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
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Kezzik

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Re: The RP victor!
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2006, 02:17:22 am »
I took a look at that thread. I didn't read it. No offense but I wouldn't stand around and listen to someone telling me their life story. You won't be hearing mine. I am sure it is a fine effort for those who appreciate such things. That thread and its like seem to be a way of providing in context information in an out of context manner. If I need to know that you can tell me in game but like I implied I will likely wander off in the middle. Heck I even got tired of telling my silly Kran origin tale, My description no longer reads "Fully Encrusted Ulbernaut." That is just me though.
More power to all who enjoy it.

then I don't see a relevance in your previous statement if you cannot be bothered to put in a little effort, sorry, but you gotta give to take