PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hurleybird on December 28, 2006, 12:18:50 am
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Ok, so I've started playing planeshift, and it seems like a pretty good attempt so far. However, there are a lot of things that I don't like. Some of these are small and easy to fix, but no less annoying. Even though this post is going to have a negative focus, keep in mind that I'm really impressed with what the devs have done. so, things that need fixed:
Mouse look: Mouse look is pretty worthless because you're horizontal speed is way too slow. Look at the way you control your character in any fps out there to see how this should be done. Come on guys, this is easy!
First person mode: Feels very sloppy, I should be able to see my weapon when I'm attacking.
Noob friendliness: You guys have failed, absolutely failed at making the game inviting to newcomers. Trying to find someone to buy rat loot is a huge exercise in frustration, heck, even finding the sewers is harder than it should be. Relying on experienced players to help the newbies is, to put it bluntly, a really cheap-ass thing to do, and is a drop dead stupid design decision, if thats what it is. When newcomers join, you should make sure that they can easily reach the sewers, and that there is someone nearby, as in right outside the sewers, to sell loot to.
Quirkiness: Just tried to create a new character, and, about five times in a row, half way through the process, I was told that the server was unavailable and kicked out of the game. When I went back in, I logged in to the server after two or three clicks of the 'join server button'. The moral of the story is, when the game can't reach the server, don't kick the player out, but have the game continue to try to connect to the server. Remember the 'drop player' box from Starcraft? That's how the system should work, let the player decide when to stop waiting for the server!
Good luck guys, and I hope you fix all of these stupid little problems, while small, they sure do make the game a helluva lot worse.
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Mouse look: Mouse look is pretty worthless because you're horizontal speed is way too slow. Look at the way you control your character in any fps out there to see how this should be done. Come on guys, this is easy!
Annoyed me a little until I just stopped even trying to use it. Remember though that this isnt an FPS and the action is not nearly as frantic.
First person mode: Feels very sloppy, I should be able to see my weapon when I'm attacking.
I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.
Noob friendliness: You guys have failed, absolutely failed at making the game inviting to newcomers. Trying to find someone to buy rat loot is a huge exercise in frustration, heck, even finding the sewers is harder than it should be. Relying on experienced players to help the newbies is, to put it bluntly, a really cheap-ass thing to do, and is a drop dead stupid design decision, if thats what it is. When newcomers join, you should make sure that they can easily reach the sewers, and that there is someone nearby, as in right outside the sewers, to sell loot to.
I guess you could call that the L33T-nOOb filter, if its really easy to find stuff then they wont need to interact, If they dont need to interact with other players (which is the beauty of this game btw) then other players cant really instruct them in an appropriate way to act. Currently we do get some stupid people running round causing hassle. IMO it would be much worse if they knew what to do and didnt get bored and leave.
Quirkiness: Just tried to create a new character, and, about five times in a row, half way through the process, I was told that the server was unavailable and kicked out of the game. When I went back in, I logged in to the server after two or three clicks of the 'join server button'. The moral of the story is, when the game can't reach the server, don't kick the player out, but have the game continue to try to connect to the server. Remember the 'drop player' box from Starcraft? That's how the system should work, let the player decide when to stop waiting for the server!
I would have to agree with the point you made about the drop player dialogue from Starcraft, but only in relation to character creation, I couldnt see it working in the actual game. As for the server drops, It seems you have picked an especially awkward time, Fragnetics who run the server are based in Singapore and a recent earth quake has been causing problems.
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Annoyed me a little until I just stopped even trying to use it. Remember though that this isnt an FPS and the action is not nearly as frantic.
That reply would make sense if I was arguing for a more action oriented combat system. I'm not. I'm asking for intuitive controls. Current mouse look sucks so bad that it feels like steering a mack truck.
I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.
Good point, can always hope.
I guess you could call that the L33T-nOOb filter, if its really easy to find stuff then they wont need to interact, If they dont need to interact with other players (which is the beauty of this game btw) then other players cant really instruct them in an appropriate way to act. Currently we do get some stupid people running round causing hassle. IMO it would be much worse if they knew what to do and didnt get bored and leave.
I generally agree with that philosophy with the exception of beginner players. If you want to get new players to stay, you walk them through the game in baby steps, and not throwing them in the world with no idea what to do having to beg experienced players for help! The game need an easy way for beginners to make money right off the bat, after that, I completely agree with focusing on player-player interaction. What sickens me is that the current beginner unfriendliness of the game seems to be a design decision, and it's very obviously a wrong one. No professional developer would want to make his game unfriendly to new users by choice!
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Firstly do you need a more sensitive mouse look to play the game?
And in RL a person is born. Without interaction with other people they'd die rather quickly. See a parallel?
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I find the rant about the unfriendliness of the players to be suspect. I never had a problem when I was new. I personally found that having a strong character and engaging people brought help when none was explicitly asked for. The game is not unfriendly to new players, it is unfriendly to unfriendly players who see roleplay as being a bother, rather than a chance to create living stories with other people. If you do not wish to interact with real people, then this game is not for you. Good luck.
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Firstly do you need a more sensitive mouse look to play the game?
That's a rather horrible statement. It's like saying "Do you really need good framerates to play a game? Isn't it still playable at 10 FPS?"
And in RL a person is born. Without interaction with other people they'd die rather quickly. See a parallel?
Being as helpless as an infant does *not* make for a fun game. The entire aspect of making beginners helpless doesn't even make sense from a pro-interaction viewpoint. Having a player ask "Where is the dungeon" or "Where can I sell my rat hides" is ultimately shallow, and the helper and the helped will go there separate ways afterwards, without any connection formed. Good interaction would be more along the lines of "Let's team up to take out the dragon" or "Let's make a guild. Like I said, no professional developer would ever try to intentionally make their game hard on beginners.
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the helper and the helped will go there separate ways afterwards, without any connection formed
That is an incorrect statement. Many people I have met in this way have gone on to join my guild, become friends and such. This attitude to guild formation is heavily frowned upon by most players, but frankly I could not give a dam.
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The game is not unfriendly to new players, it is unfriendly to unfriendly players who see roleplay as being a bother, rather than a chance to create living stories with other people. If you do not wish to interact with real people, then this game is not for you. Good luck.
The game is unfriendly to new players. It dumps you in the middle of the city with no equipment, no money (which isn't really good for role playing, by the way) with no idea what to do. Being able to advance means that you have to convince other more experienced players to show you how to get to places. I'm all for role-playing, I've played MUSHes after all, but requiring the player to need to beg for help in order to play the game, while doing so in (what in my experience is) a shallow fashion thats not even good for role playing is rather stupid.
First, make sure players can ease into the game, and then introduce the elements that require role playing.
That is an incorrect statement. Many people I have met in this way have gone on to join my guild, become friends and such. This attitude to guild formation is heavily frowned upon by most players, but frankly I could not give a dam.
I haven't found any of that yet. It's been more along the lines of "here's the x, goodbye" - something an NPC could do with a lot less hassle.
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That's a rather horrible statement. It's like saying "Do you really need good framerates to play a game? Isn't it still playable at 10 FPS?"
A rather horrible statement? And framerates have nothing to do with it.
Being as helpless as an infant does *not* make for a fun game. The entire aspect of making beginners helpless doesn't even make sense from a pro-interaction viewpoint. Having a player ask "Where is the dungeon" or "Where can I sell my rat hides" is ultimately shallow, and the helper and the helped will go there separate ways afterwards, without any connection formed. Good interaction would be more along the lines of "Let's team up to take out the dragon" or "Let's make a guild. Like I said, no professional developer would ever try to intentionally make their game hard on beginners.
Its realistic is it not? Thats the aim. If it promotes the interaction, hey, all the better then! You make a guild with friends or like minded people not newbs that you just helped get started (Well some people do...) Would you go up to a stranger ask wheres the shop? Yes. Would you ask a stranger to help you kill someone? No. Its just not realistic and realism is the aim of the game.
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It also isnt realistic for you to want to RP a 43 year old merchant and have nothing on you when you enter the game. Its just that the Devs cant cater for all such occurances or the majority of new players would want to RP an ultimate hero who is also a millionaire from his exploits. I do thin that there is a good argument if you sellect, say, 'father was a miner' that you should start with a pick at the very least.
I haven't found any of that yet. It's been more along the lines of "here's the x, goodbye" - something an NPC could do with a lot less hassle.
I would suggest you have been unlucky and not met the correct people. Check your PMs ;)
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A rather horrible statement? And framerates have nothing to do with it.
Ugh. The point that I was trying to get across is that I was never arguing that the game was unplayable without good mouse control. I just said it was bad, and needed fixed. Then you come along with the statement that "you don't need good mouse control to play the game right?" Which was rather pointless. Bad mouse control doesn't make the game unplayable, just less fun. Same thing with playing the game at 10FPS. That was the point I was trying to make.
Its realistic is it not? Thats the aim. If it promotes the interaction, hey, all the better then!
If all that you care about is interaction, then go play a MUSH. If all that you care about is realism, then go play a simulator. No RPG is realistic, and forcing new players to beg for help in my experience builds more frustration than interaction. The big mistake that open source developers make is that they often have a rather closed minded idea of how a game should be played, which is fine for them, and the few people like them, but horrible for everyone else. In an RPG you generally want to promote player choice and play style variations, not limit them. What if I want to role play a 'lone ranger' kind of character? In PS this would be an exercise in frustration.
I have to say that the biggest problem with requiring new players to beg experienced players for help is that the experienced players often don't want to help the newbie. When this happens it becomes very frustrating for the new player, and generally makes the game feel even more sloppy and unpolished than it really is (in the alpha state).
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The mouslook just isnt working right. Maybe someone work on it when there will be time
- it doesnt matter if it is FPS or PS, mouselook should work equally in both as it is not FPS domain.
bugs:
- you can't turn around fast as something makes you stop if you move mouse too fast (wasn't like this once)
- you can interact with envitoment by clicking (target and similiar) but only in first person. In Third person, you keep clicking yourself all the time. No visble pointer in the middle of the screen to be sure you are clicking the right thing.
Sewers access
this game is trying to be realistic and RP-like over being helpfull for newbies. So don't be suprised that sewers entrance isn't in the middle of the main street as citizens don't like the smell coming from inside. More, be happy you can so freely access sewers. Most of the time these places are locked.
Quirkiness:
I agree. What more to say.
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this game is trying to be realistic and RP-like over being helpfull for newbies.
Yeah, I realized that, I'm just calling that approach out as a bad design decision. In any fantasy RPG, realism goes out the window. A realistic fantasy game is an oxymoron of the highest caliber. What you should strive for instead of realism is believability and immersion. Right now, it seems to me that PS doesn't really have either, but that's most likely because it is unfinished -- as when you parts of the world that are unfinished, or unreachable for no reason it tends to kill immersion.
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Ugh. The point that I was trying to get across is that I was never arguing that the game was unplayable without good mouse control. I just said it was bad, and needed fixed. Then you come along with the statement that "you don't need good mouse control to play the game right?" Which was rather pointless. Bad mouse control doesn't make the game unplayable, just less fun. Same thing with playing the game at 10FPS. That was the point I was trying to make.
I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.
If all that you care about is interaction, then go play a MUSH. If all that you care about is realism, then go play a simulator. No RPG is realistic, and forcing new players to beg for help in my experience builds more frustration than interaction. The big mistake that open source developers make is that they often have a rather closed minded idea of how a game should be played, which is fine for them, and the few people like them, but horrible for everyone else. In an RPG you generally want to promote player choice and play style variations, not limit them. What if I want to role play a 'lone ranger' kind of character? In PS this would be an exercise in frustration.
I have to say that the biggest problem with requiring new players to beg experienced players for help is that the experienced players often don't want to help the newbie. When this happens it becomes very frustrating for the new player, and generally makes the game feel even more sloppy and unpolished than it really is (in the alpha state).
They don't have to beg. Like was already said you obviously met the wrong players.
If you don't like interaction then you are playing the wrong game.
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this game is trying to be realistic and RP-like over being helpfull for newbies.
Yeah, I realized that, I'm just calling that approach out as a bad design decision. In any fantasy RPG, realism goes out the window. A realistic fantasy game is an oxymoron of the highest caliber. What you should strive for instead of realism is believability and immersion. Right now, it seems to me that PS doesn't really have either, but that's most likely because it is unfinished -- as when you parts of the world that are unfinished, or unreachable for no reason it tends to kill immersion.
hehe, you are soon going to change your RPg definition or leave PS ;)
PS isn't any RPG and god bless it for this. It is funny as you write about believability while you say realism is bad for RPG. A game world may be only believable if all its aspects try to be realistic. As this is imposible i rather want 90% believable world over 40% or less as in case of "any RPG". Also as RolePlaying is about playing any role, it is important to create a realistic world so that you allow for every possible profession, like scientist for example. Explaining this, i encourage you to think a bit if the "any RPG" really has a right to call itself a RPG.
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As this is imposible i rather want 90% believable world over 40% or less as in case of "any RPG".
I love that sentonce and I think it sums up crafting very well. People used to the 'click some materials and it happens' would find how it works in PS very daunting and most likely quite boring and frustrating ;)
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hehe, you are soon going to change your RPg definition or leave PS ;)
PS isn't any RPG and god bless it for this. It is funny as you write about believability while you say realism is bad for RPG. A game world may be only believable if all its aspects try to be realistic.
A game where you live in a huge magical underground cavern isn't realistic at all, but you can make it believable.
Take magic, which is completely unrealistic, but that is not to say that you can't make it believable. JRRT and C.S. Lewis do a good job of making magic believable, while, say, J.K. Rowling doesn't.
There is no such thing as a "realistic fantasy" as fantasy is by definition unreal, a believable fantasy is entirely possible though.
If you don't like interaction then you are playing the wrong game.
I like interaction, but I think requiring interaction to learn the basics of the game too restricting to new players. I've made my viewpoint overly clear on the matter.
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The game is unfriendly to new players. It dumps you in the middle of the city with no equipment, no money (which isn't really good for role playing, by the way) with no idea what to do.
Gee, you make that sound like a bad thing! :D
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True, but you make a fantasy believable by getting the little details correct, having 7 feet tall beings made of rock is not realistic, but having the entrance to a sewer obscured from public view is the kind of little detail that adds to the believability
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True, but you make a fantasy believable by getting the little details correct, having 7 feet tall beings made of rock is not realistic, but having the entrance to a sewer obscured from public view is the kind of little detail that adds to the believability
Agreed. However, I haven't said that you should put the sewers in the middle of town, have I? I think they should be easily reachable, for example, and NPC could say that there are monsters in the sewers and that they are a common place for new adventurers to go, and give some general directions. I also think that there should be someone relatively nearby that you an sell your loot to (think about it, if you were a merchant who bought rat hides, wouldn't you want to be closer to the sewers in order to catch as many adventurers as possible.) as it currently is, it's impossible to make any money without countless hours of searching for a merchant who buys animal parts/hides and/or convincing someone to show you where these merchants are.
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I agree that the hide issue is a little bit of a problem, but given that Rat hides sell for an insignifigant price compared to the hides of Ulbernaughts and Tefusang it is reasonable to expect they are not in particularly high demand, hence not many people (none infact) near the sewers want to purchase them. I would point out that Rat Eyes and Tails are actually sellable in Hydlaa. i personally try to think that the one NPC that buys rat hides (unless something has changed) is doing you more of a favour than a service.
As for the NPCs giving you directions to the sewers; which NPC, what string would they respond to?
Even if you made 10% of the NPCs say, ' there are horrible rats in the sewers'. you would still get people coming here saying I cant find anything I can kill. And the fact remains that there are rats in the sewers where I live, but 'when' I go into my town centre and say to someone, 'where can I kill something?' They would normally phone the police (or call the guards as it would be in PS). that is one of those little details I refered to :)
[Edit- to swap O's for A's where I keep making that error. and to say , Bravo me, 400 posts :D it is good to have a job where I do nothing and have broadband access lol]
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Actually, why would anyone buy rat hides where there was an abundance of them? Makes more sense for them to be worth something where they are more scarce... Why "convince" anyway? How did you ask? These are rhetorical questions. All questions are answered in game, but the coin of the realm is stories. Too much of a challenge?
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I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.
Pre-Alpha? Even Alpha is something that the developers only test internally within the development team. PlaneShift is an open Beta.
Page 16 of PlaneShift Presentation from Crystal Space Conference states that it is a Beta:
http://www.crystalspace3d.org/downloads/conference_2006/planeshift_conf.pdf
Luca Pancallo calls it a Beta at 16:40 time index in this video presentation:
http://crystalspace3d.org/downloads/conference_2006/movies/ps_big_xvid.avi
Either Luca labelled it incorrectly or it's time to accept that it is a Beta now. ;) However, neither probably applies to PlaneShift, since Alpha and Beta definitions are usually based on commercial products, where Alpha is an internal dev team test, while Beta includes some or any external users. Beta is also defined as a final test before a commercial release. And since PlaneShift isn't a commercial game... Still, it's officially a Beta, whatever you make of it.
By the way, and this is no longer directed at Idoru, think very hard before stating that PlaneShift is so drastically different and unique from anything else out there that no similar experiences apply, and, "God forbid", anyone should suggest anything similar to other games. Check Page 7 of CS Press Conf. where it states that PS is modeled after Everquest, World of Warcraft, and Dark Age of Camelot. Luca clearly states in the video that those are very successful projects and are good examples to learn from.
I've also noticed that many PlaneShift purists immediately get all upset when someone suggests anything from a different MMORPG/RPG game or a fantasy setting as a good example to adopt or learn from, since "those are not PlaneShift!!!", continuously forgetting this from the main PlaneShift site:
"The Wish List Forum is reserved to give good ideas on what you would like to see in the game. Will be good to post here also ideas taken from other games."
Just a little friendly addition to this discussion. ;)
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Either Luca labelled it incorrectly or it's time to accept that it is a Beta now. However, neither probably applies to PlaneShift, since Alpha and Beta definitions are usually based on commercial products, where Alpha is an internal dev team test, while Beta includes some or any external users. Beta is also defined as a final test before a commercial release. And since PlaneShift isn't a commercial game... Still, it's officially a Beta, whatever you make of it.
That is clearly a PR statement duesigned to make people more welcoming to the project and is thus complete BS from where we stand ;) ...... In the plaza chatting untill I just crashed lol
It does just use 'paid' testers to test the game, we are paid with the experience of hwat IMO is a fantastic game where we can meet new people.
The same goes for comparisons, if Luca, and personally I prefer to refer to him as Talad, was to compare it to comercial titles such as WoW then it is obvious PR, I play WoW and can very rarely see any comparison at all.... and I mean that in a positive way.
I would personally love to se some of the thing that are implemented in other MMORPGs included in PS, an example would be the ability to 'link' weapons inchat, although I think only in priwate chat would be appropriate for PS.
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I think that the sewers are not realistically implimented. There are only two openings, the underground layout seems to have little relation to the above ground features. It also has too many ups and downs to provide for good drainage. There is no grates above to allow water to enter the sewer nor below provide light. It would seem that it is designed as a completely separate area when it would be more appropriate to be a part of the town. Jayose part of town and the under temple area should also be integral to the town. I understand that this would likely be too much of a memory hog but I think in total area it would still be smaller than the BD region. I can't say that I have ever mapped out the underground regions, it is just my impression that should they be placed in geometric relation to each other they would not line up. Am I correct in thinking that they are completely self contained areas and that there is no overall world space in which they all exist?
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I'm a pretty new player. When I was dropped into the middle of a big honkin' 3d city, I thought, "Cool! Time to explore!" I proceeded to run around for a while, chat with an NPC, and fall to my death. :@#\ I then tiptoed past the scary dude in the Death Realm, went outside, looked up, and thought, "Cool! Time to explore some more!" Several hours later I found my way out. Next I found one of the gates, and explored the wilderness until I fell off a mountain ::)
I could have asked for help, but I was in no hurry and I like exploring. Also, I'm a bit on the taciturn side, and real-time chat always feels awkward to me. This will change as I get more used to Planeshift and RPing. At first the social nature seemed annoying, and not being the type to ask for directions, I just found/learned things myself. Now I'm starting to feel more at home though, and realize how much more interesting interaction makes this game. Isn't that the point of playing with real people?
It's the same as if you went to a new town in real life. You won't know where everything is until you explore a bit. And I mean in the days before GPS and Google Earth. I actually liked the feeling of being dropped into a new place and getting to learn stuff without it being spoon-fed to me. I got to experiment. It's tougher than many games, but you get much more satisfaction when you finally mine some gold and vacate the poor house. You've earned it through hard work. I got Final Fantasy III for Christmas, and the first boss seemed too easy (I mean the djinn, not the thing you fight solo in the beginning). Getting to him with a full party was the hard part. Once I got there and destroyed him, I felt like I stole a lollipop from a kid, or like Square stole a lollipop from me. Sure, it was just the first boss, but I would have liked a challenge. I didn't get the same feeling of achievement beating that boss as I did when I mined my first chunk of gold in Planeshift. (Incidentally, I'm very glad that both FF-III and Planeshift let me equip a sword in each hand if I so choose, without any annoying extra skills needing to be learned :thumbup: ).
By the way, if I were to go skin a beaver in real life, I can guarantee I wouldn't know where to take the pelt. My dad would know, and I'd ask him or whoever's handy. Medieval life didn't come with an instruction manual, and the manuals for modern life are mostly poorly written, outsourced, biased, or self-serving. The best way is still to just ask somebody for help.
bilbous posted while I was typing, so I'll add a response: In terms of reality, yes they seem completely ridiculous. I'm no expert in sewers, but they should collect whatever they're collecting and shunt it all to a central place, obeying the laws of gravity, and do something with it. They should more or less follow the streets or lines of houses, with their elevation corresponding to the elevation of the ground. They would need to not interfere with the cave under the temple, and if they do intersect, it should show. A way of moving between them in such a case would be cool. More entrances would also be nifty, so you could use it as an alternate path through the city. They don't have to co-exist in the same map, but they should be compatible if one were to pretend they co-existed. Hopefully that will be adjusted in the future. Some Planeshift style turtles would also be cool.
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@Hurleybird: In response to your first post, there is a reason for the mouselook to be so slow. People where using it to jump corners in weird ways in order to jump to platforms they weren't supposed to be able to get to. As far as the rest of it, I agree very much so, especially in terms of the game being "noob friendly". Even though the game is in pre-beta (or whatever you wish to call it), such things should still be of immediate concern.
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You call it bad design decision .. I call it originality.
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You call it bad design decision .. I call it originality.
Perhaps it's an original bad design? ;)
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Signposts and some knowledgeable NPCs would help the noobs. (Like ones that could respond positively to "where can I sell (item)" - At the moment the NPCs just respond in a way that implies you're making no sense at all when you ask them some basic things... when... realistically, you'd expect each NPC to have at least a little bit of knowledge about their surroundings.
Of course... this all takes work... and regarding NPC dialog.. a lot of tedious work I'm sure.
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Noob friendliness: You guys have failed, absolutely failed at making the game inviting to newcomers. Trying to find someone to buy rat loot is a huge exercise in frustration, heck, even finding the sewers is harder than it should be. Relying on experienced players to help the newbies is, to put it bluntly, a really cheap-ass thing to do, and is a drop dead stupid design decision, if thats what it is. When newcomers join, you should make sure that they can easily reach the sewers, and that there is someone nearby, as in right outside the sewers, to sell loot to.
This is the chief objective of Elemental light.
We've actually grown alot just because of this, we help our own, and we help others.
I'd like to have those people, who said there are too many guilds that help out, to answer to hurleybird.
Clearly he didn't get the help he needed.
Now we can't be expected to, help all new players because there are soo many of them.
BUT i'd like to point out, THERE ARE NOT enough of us, and i don't like people saying such and such guild is useless because they are good, and they help new players, "cookie cutter" existance as you put it.
The only people who really do it well, and on a huge basis, is Elemental light, we need more help.
This part of his post should show that we're not helping new players out enough, and those that do, GET RIDICULED for it.
Ohh, that's a non RP guild there, they just help newbs, forget them. We get too much disrespect.
While HEAVILY RP guilds, or those who "claim to be" seem to get all the fame.
THAT'S THE MENTALITY we face Bird, That's why alot of new players don't get help.
I'm sorry, for that.
But Elemental light will continue to do what it does best, and if you need any help at all, See ANY EL member in game, they will assist you.
There are plenty of us so we're not hard to find.
~~Datruth
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I think you've missed the fact that he didn't mention his asking for help not being successful. He just said that he wants convenient NPCs from the start and to not have to go through other players for aid.
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This is the chief objective of Elemental light.
We've actually grown alot just because of this, we help our own, and we help others.
I'd like to have those people, who said there are too many guilds that help out, to answer to hurleybird.
Clearly he didn't get the help he needed.
Now we can't be expected to, help all new players because there are soo many of them.
BUT i'd like to point out, THERE ARE NOT enough of us, and i don't like people saying such and such guild is useless because they are good, and they help new players, "cookie cutter" existance as you put it.
The only people who really do it well, and on a huge basis, is Elemental light, we need more help.
This part of his post should show that we're not helping new players out enough, and those that do, GET RIDICULED for it.
Ohh, that's a non RP guild there, they just help newbs, forget them. We get too much disrespect.
While HEAVILY RP guilds, or those who "claim to be" seem to get all the fame.
THAT'S THE MENTALITY we face Bird, That's why alot of new players don't get help.
I'm sorry, for that.
But Elemental light will continue to do what it does best, and if you need any help at all, See ANY EL member in game, they will assist you.
There are plenty of us so we're not hard to find.
~~Datruth
The members I've seen from Elemental Light (There are lots!) have all been the ones asking the questions. Asides from meeting Idoru once and one guy that was chatting OOC without brackets they have all been on the wrong side of your Helpful experienced one to new player relationship.
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@Hurleybird: In response to your first post, there is a reason for the mouselook to be so slow. People where using it to jump corners in weird ways in order to jump to platforms they weren't supposed to be able to get to.
I have to comment it x)
If it is the case why mouselook is so cumbersome and in effect people don't use it, then there is something wery wrong. I been telling since ever that any game including especially PS should try to reflect this how you can move in real. In PS you have to turn to move in a direction. In real you turn almost momentaly, or turn while moving in that direction. You can use your hands to grab some static object and get into places you wouldn't by simple PS going forward-turn-forward-turn.
Mouslook+keys reflect the RL movement better than only keys. While it is not perfect it is better. And breaking it, because you could get into places lke the warehouse exit from laanx dungeon and treat it as entrance, isn't good. That wall which was put there, is actually no obstacle at all if it were in RL.
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The members I've seen from Elemental Light (There are lots!) have all been the ones asking the questions. Asides from meeting Idoru once and one guy that was chatting OOC without brackets they have all been on the wrong side of your Helpful experienced one to new player relationship.
To be entirely honest that does bother me. The one problem that we do have is at certain times of the day it seems that we have some new members and not so many of the experienced players. Possibly its just the times that you happen to log in. One thing that does cause issues in the Elemental Light is that some of our players seem to get embarassed about asking simple or 'stupid' questions in Guild Chat because for some reason they seem to think it will reflect badly on them.
I personally try as best I can to use [] when OOC, unless of course I am pretty sure no one else is around who is not involved. But it has to be said that everyone forgets it from time to time.
I am sorry that you have gained a negative image of Elemental Light. :(
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Oh no, no. I have a negative image of the members I have met. Besides this is not the place for discussing this... Plus if I say one more bad thing about you guys Datruth migh go mental again :P
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Leaving the discussion of guilds to the guild forumns.
I was once a newbie. At first I was frustrated exactly the same. This isn't like all those other games that start you with basic equipment and easy tasks. But there is a reason I am not still playing those games. They got boring!!!
Because the game "forced" me to ask for help I met a lot of good friends and learned a lot about rp.
The noobs I run across and help are of 2 types. One who just wants to know where to find the superweapon right away who you never see again, and those who ask for guidance and then take it from there. I see them later and they greet me, some have become friends and some guildmates.
In the long run, what is better for the game?
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I couldn't agree more. There is however another type of noob. I didn't talk to anyone for weeks and weeks. I learned alot by watching and listening and of course here on the forums.
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I couldn't agree more. There is however another type of noob. I didn't talk to anyone for weeks and weeks. I learned alot by watching and listening and of course here on the forums.
That's more my story. But it fits in with my character.
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Oh no, no. I have a negative image of the members I have met. Besides this is not the place for discussing this... Plus if I say one more bad thing about you guys Datruth migh go mental again :P
Basically, you wrote you met, on the most part, alot of members speaking ooc in main chat.
If that is true, i'd like you to list a couple.
I mean if we have soo many members, it won't be hard for you to list atleast 10 of them.
That's not the case, and i can assure you Parallo doesn't know the vast majority of Elemental light.
[Edit] flamatrory remarks removed. At least they were in my opinion[/Edit]
~~Datruth
[Keep your personal opinions of what you think of others to your self. Also, as it as been said, discussion of your guilds members are not for this thread. Take it to PMs or the guild forum section. Any further posts about that from anyone will deleted. --Neko]
Thank you for your suggestions, they were taken into consideration, now go back to doing what you do so well. ~~Datruth
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If players have taken it upon themselves to fill in the gaps, that's nice. But the gaps are still there.
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If players have taken it upon themselves to fill in the gaps, that's nice. But the gaps are still there.
Absolutely true. Players can't always be relied on to fill the gaps either, as sometimes the helpful players won't be there. In other news, after selling lots of rats eyes and tails I bought a broadsword, and my attack went way up. It would have been nice as well as realistic if I were given a sword off the bat given the history of my character though.
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I don't actually know if it's intended with the slow horisontal mouse sensitivity, but it was generally faster in linux till 0.17 ... now it's more like if you turn the mouse slow he will move slow, if you turn it a little faster, the character will not turn that fast compared to what you first did. Try it out. Move the mouse slow and speed it up maybe you'll see what I mean... I'm on linux though so I don't know if this works on windows.
I can also add that I didn't have to turn my mouse pretty much in 0.16, My mouse sensitivity were... 20 if I remember correctly. Now it's 100(max.) It's something I miss actually.
@hurleybird: there's nothing wrong in asking for help, the players who know what to do already will gladly help you :)... and there is a little player guide here (http://www.planeshift.it/guide/en/guide.html) that you might find useful. It also tells where to find the sewers ;).
And in the newbie forums there should be help to get too, there's a childboard with guides to various things (for example roleplaying) which I think you might find interesting too. they are located here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?board=53.0)
I will be glad to help you further, contact me in game(/tell Peacer message) or here in a pm (you need 10 posts to send one.) If you need any help.
Oh, and welcome to planeshift, may your path be safe.
Nice first topic btw :).
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If I can add my two cents on the matter (take it for what you will,) the majority of the people start in Hydlaa, right next to the smithy. People who already have experience with the game who are at the smithy are using the equipment and flexing their job skills with the "System" tab open in their text window, cheerfully ignoring the flashing "Main" tab of someone who might be asking questions.
Those who aren't flexing their job skills and who are hanging out at the smithy are usually newbies or people who have questions. They go to the smithy because they don't know of anywhere else where people congregate. (One of the problems with a large 3D city is that while it looks great, people will only be where you can actually do things, and unless they're bored won't ever really look at it. This will, I assume, be fixed later when people can purchase real estate and set up shops, guilds or - please please please - crafting areas.)
Thus, it's only on an off chance that someone will not only click on that "Main" tab, see your question in a timely manner, but be both knowledgeable and helpful enough to answer it. This takes a while. True, eventually someone will answer your question but not before you get really frustrated at being ignored when you ask at the forge, at the table, at the stock casing...not the fault of those people working, really. Just a statement of what I've observed. These "busy" PCs are perceived as being newbie-unfriendly (and I think hurleybird does have a point, even if he could include more constructiveness in his criticism.)
How to fix? Don't start people off right by the smithy. It's too tough to find the sewers and get people started? Place people closer to the sewers. Want to create more "friendly" interaction? Start people off right in front of the tavern or right by the plaza fountain until they get used to it as "the place to be." The wide open fountain space is SCREAMING for people to stand around there and interact. The tavern is a great spot for RPing. In short, there are a lot better places for a person to start the game than a place where experienced people are busy. When I first started there was a helpful guild that would always hang out in front of the temple. I thought it was a wonderful idea - it clears up the clutter from the smithy and establishes a place that's not only safe to ask questions but that makes sense in an IC context. Don't see them anymore. Pity.
Whew! And that's what I have to say about that.
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Different races spawn in different areas. Ylians already spwan in front of the tavern.
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Different races spawn in different areas. Ylians already spwan in front of the tavern.
Ylians are drunks? like old Harny ? :P
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Different races spawn in different areas. Ylians already spwan in front of the tavern.
In my defense, I did say "the majority" and not "all" :)
But I think you know what I mean.
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Dermorians spawn near Percival and the sewers...
But facing the fountain so most don't realize one of the entrances to the sewers is right at their backs.
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Different races spawn in different areas. Ylians already spwan in front of the tavern.
Sucks for the dwarves.
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Nolthrirs spawn on the tavernstairs looking over the plaza, like their gazing in the horizon which I found beautiful
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Not that it matters, but I tend to be the odd type of newcomer. I tend to do everything/explore/fight/learn on my own with no help from others whatsoever, (unless they approach me first) This is usually how I try to avoid looking like an annoying "n00b" as opposed to generic newbie. Mebbe it works, mebbe it doesn't. I guess I just try to learn the world around me before I start interacting with its denizens. And yes, (foo on me) I tend to use OOC to try and break the ice before getting the feel for my character.
In my experience roleplaying on muds, it's usually the older veteran players who tend to be the most helpful, insightful, and/or friendly. Granted, though, that's a trend, and not an absolute, and they're often pretty busy. I haven't interacted in PS enough to really see any trends, so I can't say anything on that score. (yeah i know i know, I need to get out more :P )
My (albeit limited) experience in Planeshift has been enjoyable for the most part, granted I don't RP much and keep to myself (i'm shy like that) But that's how i've always started, and eventually I do come outta my shell and make friends in the long run and hang around for a good length of time (now going a good 6 years on one particular mud).
Granted, Planeshift isn't the most "newbie friendly" and I think I can understand the reason for it what with trying to fend off the powergamer breed, maybe people are trying to fend them off too aggressively, and it's leading to interaction problems for fear a newb might be a powergamer? I dunno, just speculation there. But, I guess PS is literally what you, or rather, your character makes of it. If you don't start treating it like a MUD and roleplaying, trying to make friends, it becomes like MMORPG- number X.