Planeshift Impressions

[Hurleybird]

Ok, so I've started playing planeshift, and it seems like a pretty good attempt so far. However, there are a lot of things that I don't like. Some of these are small and easy to fix, but no less annoying. Even though this post is going to have a negative focus, keep in mind that I'm really impressed with what the devs have done. so, things that need fixed:

Mouse look: Mouse look is pretty worthless because you're horizontal speed is way too slow. Look at the way you control your character in any fps out there to see how this should be done. Come on guys, this is easy!

First person mode: Feels very sloppy, I should be able to see my weapon when I'm attacking.

Noob friendliness: You guys have failed, absolutely failed at making the game inviting to newcomers. Trying to find someone to buy rat loot is a huge exercise in frustration, heck, even finding the sewers is harder than it should be. Relying on experienced players to help the newbies is, to put it bluntly, a really cheap-ass thing to do, and is a drop dead stupid design decision, if thats what it is. When newcomers join, you should make sure that they can easily reach the sewers, and that there is someone nearby, as in right outside the sewers, to sell loot to.

Quirkiness: Just tried to create a new character, and, about five times in a row, half way through the process, I was told that the server was unavailable and kicked out of the game. When I went back in, I logged in to the server after two or three clicks of the 'join server button'. The moral of the story is, when the game can't reach the server, don't kick the player out, but have the game continue to try to connect to the server. Remember the 'drop player' box from Starcraft? That's how the system should work, let the player decide when to stop waiting for the server!


Good luck guys, and I hope you fix all of these stupid little problems, while small, they sure do make the game a helluva lot worse.

[Idoru]

Mouse look: Mouse look is pretty worthless because you're horizontal speed is way too slow. Look at the way you control your character in any fps out there to see how this should be done. Come on guys, this is easy!

Annoyed me a little until I just stopped even trying to use it. Remember though that this isnt an FPS and the action is not nearly as frantic.

First person mode: Feels very sloppy, I should be able to see my weapon when I'm attacking.

I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.

Noob friendliness: You guys have failed, absolutely failed at making the game inviting to newcomers. Trying to find someone to buy rat loot is a huge exercise in frustration, heck, even finding the sewers is harder than it should be. Relying on experienced players to help the newbies is, to put it bluntly, a really cheap-ass thing to do, and is a drop dead stupid design decision, if thats what it is. When newcomers join, you should make sure that they can easily reach the sewers, and that there is someone nearby, as in right outside the sewers, to sell loot to.

I guess you could call that the L33T-nOOb filter, if its really easy to find stuff then they wont need to interact, If they dont need to interact with other players (which is the beauty of this game btw) then other players cant really instruct them in an appropriate way to act. Currently we do get some stupid people running round causing hassle. IMO it would be much worse if they knew what to do and didnt get bored and leave.

Quirkiness: Just tried to create a new character, and, about five times in a row, half way through the process, I was told that the server was unavailable and kicked out of the game. When I went back in, I logged in to the server after two or three clicks of the 'join server button'. The moral of the story is, when the game can't reach the server, don't kick the player out, but have the game continue to try to connect to the server. Remember the 'drop player' box from Starcraft? That's how the system should work, let the player decide when to stop waiting for the server!

I would have to agree with the point you made about the drop player dialogue from Starcraft, but only in relation to character creation, I couldnt see it working in the actual game. As for the server drops, It seems you have picked an especially awkward time, Fragnetics who run the server are based in Singapore and a recent earth quake has been causing problems.

[Hurleybird]

Annoyed me a little until I just stopped even trying to use it. Remember though that this isnt an FPS and the action is not nearly as frantic.

That reply would make sense if I was arguing for a more action oriented combat system. I'm not. I'm asking for intuitive controls. Current mouse look sucks so bad that it feels like steering a mack truck.

I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.

Good point, can always hope.

I guess you could call that the L33T-nOOb filter, if its really easy to find stuff then they wont need to interact, If they dont need to interact with other players (which is the beauty of this game btw) then other players cant really instruct them in an appropriate way to act. Currently we do get some stupid people running round causing hassle. IMO it would be much worse if they knew what to do and didnt get bored and leave.

I generally agree with that philosophy with the exception of beginner players. If you want to get new players to stay, you walk them through the game in baby steps, and not throwing them in the world with no idea what to do having to beg experienced players for help! The game need an easy way for beginners to make money right off the bat, after that, I completely agree with focusing on player-player interaction. What sickens me is that the current beginner unfriendliness of the game seems to be a design decision, and it's very obviously a wrong one. No professional developer would want to make his game unfriendly to new users by choice!

[Parallo]

Firstly do you need a more sensitive mouse look to play the game?

And in RL a person is born. Without interaction with other people they'd die rather quickly. See a parallel?

[eldoth_terevan]

I find the rant about the unfriendliness of the players to be suspect. I never had a problem when I was new. I personally found that having a strong character and engaging people brought help when none was explicitly asked for. The game is not unfriendly to new players, it is unfriendly to unfriendly players who see roleplay as being a bother, rather than a chance to create living stories with other people. If you do not wish to interact with real people, then this game is not for you. Good luck.

[Hurleybird]

Firstly do you need a more sensitive mouse look to play the game?

That's a rather horrible statement. It's like saying "Do you really need good framerates to play a game? Isn't it still playable at 10 FPS?"

And in RL a person is born. Without interaction with other people they'd die rather quickly. See a parallel?

Being as helpless as an infant does *not* make for a fun game. The entire aspect of making beginners helpless doesn't even make sense from a pro-interaction viewpoint. Having a player ask "Where is the dungeon" or "Where can I sell my rat hides" is ultimately shallow, and the helper and the helped will go there separate ways afterwards, without any connection formed. Good interaction would be more along the lines of "Let's team up to take out the dragon" or "Let's make a guild. Like I said, no professional developer would ever try to intentionally make their game hard on beginners.

[Idoru]

the helper and the helped will go there separate ways afterwards, without any connection formed

That is an incorrect statement. Many people I have met in this way have gone on to join my guild, become friends and such. This attitude to guild formation is heavily frowned upon by most players, but frankly I could not give a dam.

[Hurleybird]

The game is not unfriendly to new players, it is unfriendly to unfriendly players who see roleplay as being a bother, rather than a chance to create living stories with other people. If you do not wish to interact with real people, then this game is not for you. Good luck.

The game is unfriendly to new players. It dumps you in the middle of the city with no equipment, no money (which isn't really good for role playing, by the way) with no idea what to do. Being able to advance means that you have to convince other more experienced players to show you how to get to places. I'm all for role-playing, I've played MUSHes after all, but requiring the player to need to beg for help in order to play the game, while doing so in (what in my experience is) a shallow fashion thats not even good for role playing is rather stupid.

First, make sure players can ease into the game, and then introduce the elements that require role playing.

That is an incorrect statement. Many people I have met in this way have gone on to join my guild, become friends and such. This attitude to guild formation is heavily frowned upon by most players, but frankly I could not give a dam.

I haven't found any of that yet. It's been more along the lines of "here's the x, goodbye" - something an NPC could do with a lot less hassle.

[Parallo]

That's a rather horrible statement. It's like saying "Do you really need good framerates to play a game? Isn't it still playable at 10 FPS?"

A rather horrible statement? And framerates have nothing to do with it.

Being as helpless as an infant does *not* make for a fun game. The entire aspect of making beginners helpless doesn't even make sense from a pro-interaction viewpoint. Having a player ask "Where is the dungeon" or "Where can I sell my rat hides" is ultimately shallow, and the helper and the helped will go there separate ways afterwards, without any connection formed. Good interaction would be more along the lines of "Let's team up to take out the dragon" or "Let's make a guild. Like I said, no professional developer would ever try to intentionally make their game hard on beginners.

Its realistic is it not? Thats the aim. If it promotes the interaction, hey, all the better then! You make a guild with friends or like minded people not newbs that you just helped get started (Well some people do...) Would you go up to a stranger ask wheres the shop? Yes. Would you ask a stranger to help you kill someone? No. Its just not realistic and realism is the aim of the game.

[Idoru]

It also isnt realistic for you to want to RP a 43 year old merchant and have nothing on you when you enter the game. Its just that the Devs cant cater for all such occurances or the majority of new players would want to RP  an ultimate hero who is also a millionaire from his exploits. I do thin that there is a good argument if you sellect, say, 'father was a miner' that you should start with a pick at the very least.

I haven't found any of that yet. It's been more along the lines of "here's the x, goodbye" - something an NPC could do with a lot less hassle.

I would suggest you have been unlucky and not met the correct people. Check your PMs

[Hurleybird]

A rather horrible statement? And framerates have nothing to do with it.

Ugh. The point that I was trying to get across is that I was never arguing that the game was unplayable without good mouse control. I just said it was bad, and needed fixed. Then you come along with the statement that "you don't need good mouse control to play the game right?" Which was rather pointless. Bad mouse control doesn't make the game unplayable, just less fun. Same thing with playing the game at 10FPS. That was the point I was trying to make.

Its realistic is it not? Thats the aim. If it promotes the interaction, hey, all the better then!

If all that you care about is interaction, then go play a MUSH. If all that you care about is realism, then go play a simulator. No RPG is realistic, and forcing new players to beg for help in my experience builds more frustration than interaction. The big mistake that open source developers make is that they often have a rather closed minded idea of how a game should be played, which is fine for them, and the few people like them, but horrible for everyone else. In an RPG you generally want to promote player choice and play style variations, not limit them. What if I want to role play a 'lone ranger' kind of character? In PS this would be an exercise in frustration.

I have to say that the biggest problem with requiring new players to beg experienced players for help is that the experienced players often don't want to help the newbie. When this happens it becomes very frustrating for the new player, and generally makes the game feel even more sloppy and unpolished than it really is (in the alpha state).

[Nikodemus]

The mouslook just isnt working right. Maybe someone work on it when there will be time
- it doesnt matter if it is FPS or PS, mouselook should work equally in both as it is not FPS domain.
bugs:
- you can't turn around fast as something makes you stop if you move mouse too fast (wasn't like this once)
- you can interact with envitoment by clicking (target and similiar) but only in first person. In Third person, you keep clicking yourself all the time. No visble pointer in the middle of the screen to be sure you are clicking the right thing.

Sewers access
this game is trying to be realistic and RP-like over being helpfull for newbies. So don't be suprised that sewers entrance isn't in the middle of the main street as citizens don't like the smell coming from inside. More, be happy you can so freely access sewers. Most of the time these places are locked.

Quirkiness:
I agree. What more to say.

[Hurleybird]

this game is trying to be realistic and RP-like over being helpfull for newbies.

Yeah, I realized that, I'm just calling that approach out as a bad design decision. In any fantasy RPG, realism goes out the window. A realistic fantasy game is an oxymoron of the highest caliber. What you should strive for instead of realism is believability and immersion. Right now, it seems to me that PS doesn't really have either, but that's most likely because it is unfinished -- as when you parts of the world that are unfinished, or unreachable for no reason it tends to kill immersion.

[Parallo]

Ugh. The point that I was trying to get across is that I was never arguing that the game was unplayable without good mouse control. I just said it was bad, and needed fixed. Then you come along with the statement that "you don't need good mouse control to play the game right?" Which was rather pointless. Bad mouse control doesn't make the game unplayable, just less fun. Same thing with playing the game at 10FPS. That was the point I was trying to make.

I hate to say this but it is Pre-alpha, not a finished piece. I would guess that this will come in time.

If all that you care about is interaction, then go play a MUSH. If all that you care about is realism, then go play a simulator. No RPG is realistic, and forcing new players to beg for help in my experience builds more frustration than interaction. The big mistake that open source developers make is that they often have a rather closed minded idea of how a game should be played, which is fine for them, and the few people like them, but horrible for everyone else. In an RPG you generally want to promote player choice and play style variations, not limit them. What if I want to role play a 'lone ranger' kind of character? In PS this would be an exercise in frustration.

I have to say that the biggest problem with requiring new players to beg experienced players for help is that the experienced players often don't want to help the newbie. When this happens it becomes very frustrating for the new player, and generally makes the game feel even more sloppy and unpolished than it really is (in the alpha state).

They don't have to beg. Like was already said you obviously met the wrong players.
If you don't like interaction then you are playing the wrong game.

[Nikodemus]

this game is trying to be realistic and RP-like over being helpfull for newbies.

Yeah, I realized that, I'm just calling that approach out as a bad design decision. In any fantasy RPG, realism goes out the window. A realistic fantasy game is an oxymoron of the highest caliber. What you should strive for instead of realism is believability and immersion. Right now, it seems to me that PS doesn't really have either, but that's most likely because it is unfinished -- as when you parts of the world that are unfinished, or unreachable for no reason it tends to kill immersion.

hehe, you are soon going to change your RPg definition or leave PS
PS isn't any RPG and god bless it for this. It is funny as you write about believability while you say realism is bad for RPG. A game world may be only believable if all its aspects try to be realistic. As this is imposible i rather want 90% believable world over 40% or less as in case of "any RPG". Also as RolePlaying is about playing any role, it is important to create a realistic world so that you allow for every possible profession, like scientist for example. Explaining this, i encourage you to think a bit if the "any RPG" really has a right to call itself a RPG.