PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: dying_inside on February 08, 2007, 11:25:16 am
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I woke up this morning...
Got up. Got dressed.
Went downstairs. There's a note from mum by the computer "Lock the door when you leave. have a good day", aww thats sweet. My view pans around and I look out the doors, they have big windows in them see.
Kinda did a double take and was like "holy mother****!"
There is about four inches of snow. Four Inches!
In London! This doesnt happen people, this is mental!
London just doesnt get snw, and when it does it gets it as thin as it comes!
Wow!
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Heh, the snow failed to penetrate central London where I am. The shield of pollution melts it too quick. There's light snow fall, but nothing is really settling.
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Weirdos. Weather on Earth isn't the same for millions of years. It does change! And, it doesn't really change dramatically because of pollution. Yes, that affects it, but doesn't radically change it. Look at the ozone layer, it's regenerating itself, more and more, every day...
* edit *
And hell I want snow in Bucharest!
:'(
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Climate doesn't change by itself over a period of 50 years though :P And by change, I mean having 1 foot of snow for weeks every every winter to having barely any.
edit: So that's why last year had the biggest hole in the ozone recorded to date? :P
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The idea is that it's regenerating...
:P
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Actually pollution can have a signifigant impact on temperature, When we have a highest recorded temp it is always at Heathrow because of all the air pollution caused by the airport.
As for snow up in North Lincs, rubbish as always, although it does seem to have started coming down reasonably now but the floors wet and its not settling.
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Well its cool. I webnt into college for all of 25 minutes. Like five people in my entire english class turned up :P
And I just took some shots of the ground from a top down view to make snow textures :) Torque gaming engine here I come.
Well.... When i can be bothered to actually import the photo's.
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four inches.
lucky.
we don't have four inches of snow
there are people here who would kill to have four inches.
now quit complaining, and eat your brussel sprouts... err play in the snow.
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Hehe I just got my brother in the head with a snowball from distance. I rule.
And school is closed on the LAST day before the holidays! W00T!
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Woo, it's snowing here too!
Probably the first and last time this year ;)
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Round here we don't get a snow day with less than a meter, that about 39 inches for the metrically challenged. Just kidding, half that might do it depending on how quick and how much more is expected. And of course that is just for the school kids and silly servants...
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Awww this sucks. All we got was a few minutes of sleet. And all the weather stations said we'd be covered in it by now.
I want snow, damnit... :'(
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Come to Donegal.
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Come to Donegal.
How much you got up there?
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Just a little that refused to settle but predictions are that it'll be covered by tonight.
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Weirdos. Weather on Earth isn't the same for millions of years. It does change! And, it doesn't really change dramatically because of pollution. Yes, that affects it, but doesn't radically change it. Look at the ozone layer, it's regenerating itself, more and more, every day...
A couple things...
Pollution does change the weather on a global scale. Dust thrown into the atmosphere by a large explosion such as a meteor hitting the earth or a large volcanic eruption can cause an ice age not unlike a theorized nuclear ice age. In fact, the poor agricultural conditions of the Dark Ages are largely attributed to just such an event.
The ozone layer is regenerating itself, but not at the rate that it's being destroyed. The chemicals we released in the the upper atmosphere will continue to eat away at the ozone layer for another 50 years before finally losing all their juice. Only then will the ozone layer be able to recover in earnest.
Global warming is another example of how pollution can create climate change. Melting glaciers are an example of that. Chances are it will throw Europe into another ice age, and we might see forests start to grow in the middle east.
So yes, weather does in fact change dramatically because of pollution.
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Lol..
right now outside, there ias no less than 4 feet of snow.
and in the roads, there are 8 foot drifts. the plows were out though, so school wasnt even cancelled.
I live in NY.
you london peeps mustnt be hardcore.
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Global warming is another example of how pollution can create climate change. Melting glaciers are an example of that. Chances are it will throw Europe into another ice age, and we might see forests start to grow in the middle east.
So yes, weather does in fact change dramatically because of pollution.
Um, global warming has increased the World's ambient temperature by about 0.5 degrees in the last 150 years... :P
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Um, global warming has increased the World's ambient temperature by about 0.5 degrees in the last 150 years... :P
Yeah, and that's huge. Once the glaciers stop soaking up the heat we'll be in it deep, especially since ocean currents will be disrupted to the point of disapearing all together.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/_zanz/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/_zanz/HadCRUG.gif)
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/obsdata/globaltemperature.html
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Hurricane in South America East Coast (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Catarina) (Never Happened before)
Things are getting bad...
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Zanzibar, look at everything at a larger scale. Not from 1850 okay? Yes, I did say pollution affects weather, but not in a very radical way. Because now we're on the verge to "live" things that happened a loooong time ago, that doesn't mean the world is falling apart for god's sake. They're called cycles. Yeah, maybe we did speed things up a little, but that's about it.
And things are NOT getting bad lordraleigh. Mrr!
:innocent:
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Carry on, motor companies! Fossil fuels are great! Statistics don't matter!
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Zanzibar, look at everything at a larger scale. Not from 1850 okay? Yes, I did say pollution affects weather, but not in a very radical way. Because now we're on the verge to "live" things that happened a loooong time ago, that doesn't mean the world is falling apart for god's sake. They're called cycles. Yeah, maybe we did speed things up a little, but that's about it.
And things are NOT getting bad lordraleigh. Mrr!
:innocent:
Annah, this is not a natural cycle. Never before in the history of the Earth has a change like this happen in such a short period of time.
"The world falling apart" is an interesting way to put it. As glaciers melt, the salinity of the oceans change. If it changes by too much - and too much isn't very much at all - then the ocean currents will be disrupted. As a result, warm waters will no longer move to the shores of Europe and the continent will freeze over.
Now, the human race will survive, but a few things will be different 'round these parts.
Carry on, motor companies! Fossil fuels are great! Statistics don't matter!
Silly me and my fuzzy math. When will I learn?
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What have you just said, it's a theory. Just a theory.
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What have you just said, it's a theory. Just a theory.
Every idea, every fact, every notion, every instinct, everything you think is merely a theory. A good theory is something that agrees with what we know and that leads to new information. Nothing more. Theories are always tested and never proven to be true. They are only ever proven to be false. This is what a theory is.
The people who have gotten the environment into this mess will be dead, dieing, or senile when the stuff hits the fan. What kills me though is that the ones left to defend their attitudes of today will probably say something like “How could we have known? If we knew then what we know now, then of course we would have acted differently.”
Hmm. Chloro-fluoro-carbons… we were given the warnings and we ignored them. Nazi Germany… we were given the warnings and we ignored them. The dangers of smoking… we were given the warnings and we ignored them. WMDs in Iraq… we were given the warnings and we ignored them. Terrorists using planes as weapons… we were given the warnings and we ignored them. DDT and the Silent Spring… we were given the warnings and we ignored them.
The list goes on. Global warming is no different.
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Global Warming is uber-hyped. Primarily by the American media looking for Republican votes.
And there's 100 other things that will apparently end the world before Global Warming ever has a chance.
I'm surprised at you Zanzibar, usually you claim to be above the mass-hysteria of 'public opinions'.
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yup, everything is theory.
But when the vast majority of scientists agree that Global warming due to human actions is real and will have a devestating effect on the world within the next hundred years we should really try and listen to them.
My Gawd, even George Bush recently said, in an abbrieved version, It is happening, I was wrong.
Maybe we should probably listen to the worlds intellectuals saying that we are up the creek without a paddle..... Hopefully we still have the boat and can change our actions to avoid the total cataclism that is seemingly inevitable.
If you want to argue against global warming and climate change, just think about the life your children and grand children will have (if any) if global warming is real and ask yourself if it is really worth less than 2% global GDP to avoid it in the long term.
@Emerald - Republican votes???? I hope you mean votes by people voting for the republicans and not those who are republicans
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Global Warming is uber-hyped. Primarily by the American media looking for Republican votes.
And there's 100 other things that will apparently end the world before Global Warming ever has a chance.
I'm surprised at you Zanzibar, usually you claim to be above the mass-hysteria of 'public opinions'.
Most of those things we cant do anything about i assume. Global warming we can.
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Global Warming is uber-hyped. Primarily by the American media looking for Republican votes.
And there's 100 other things that will apparently end the world before Global Warming ever has a chance.
I'm surprised at you Zanzibar, usually you claim to be above the mass-hysteria of 'public opinions'.
Dude, labelling it as "hype", "mass-hysteria", an invention of the "media", political pandering, etc etc does nothing to disrepute the scientific evidence at hand.
Anyway, Global Warming won't "end" the world. It will just change it significantly.
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A theory isn't a fact. Period.
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Yep, gravity will never happen.
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@Emerald - Republican votes???? I hope you mean votes by people voting for the republicans and not those who are republicans
I mean the Democrats are totally super-exaggerating Global Warming in order to steal the votes for the Republicans.
Global warming exists, but it's not spawning vicious hurricanes all over the place, and we're not all gonna die in a few months.
The worst thing that could happen is in 1000 years, they have to set up UV shields to allow people to walk outside with their skin exposed.
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A theory isn't a fact. Period.
All facts are theories.
I mean the Democrats are totally super-exaggerating Global Warming in order to steal the votes for the Republicans.
Global warming exists, but it's not spawning vicious hurricanes all over the place, and we're not all gonna die in a few months.
The worst thing that could happen is in 1000 years, they have to set up UV shields to allow people to walk outside with their skin exposed.
Emerald, would you care to cite some references?
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A theory isn't a fact. Period.
All facts are theories.
All theories can be slanted. Things left out, other things magnified.
You think global warming is the reason hurricanes are appearing more frequently? Okay, here's my reference:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d46/_zanz/HadCRUG.gif)
GW equates about a 0.4 degrees Celsius difference. Yet according to http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Library/Hurricanes/ , the formation of a hurricane requires a water temp of 26.5 degrees Celsius or higher. In other words - a HELL of a lot more than simply GW on its own.
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Never fear Al Gore will save us!!1 :woot:
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I hit someone's head with a baseball bat. It hurts. That's a fact, it was tried before. I don't see any theories here. Now, tell me, how was in the last ice age? You were there uhm?
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I is a theory. I theorise that, from the weight of this bat and my accuracy from this swing and it's velocity, it'll break his face.
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I said that it hurts, you're not following me.
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All theories can be slanted. Things left out, other things magnified.
Are you saying that the widely accepted understanding of Global Warming - which I consider to be a fact more than a theory, despite facts in theory being theories - is slanted? How so specifically?
I hit someone's head with a baseball bat. It hurts. That's a fact, it was tried before. I don't see any theories here. Now, tell me, how was in the last ice age? You were there uhm?
We have records of conditions during the last ice age from things like sediment, ice layers in the arctic, etc. Feel free to do your own research if the topic interests you.
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I said that it hurts, you're not following me.
I theorise that, since breaking various parts of the body causes pain, so does the braking of a person's face with said baseball bat.
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A theory isn't a fact. Period.
All facts are theories.
Thank you, you saved me saying that.
The point is that it isnt propaganda, it is real, it is true, cycles do exist but we are vastly increasing what the natural cycle is. all it takes is for the gulf stream to stop (which wont take much of a change in the salinity of the atlantic ocean) and we, in europe, will be in another ice age. we are actually enduring an inter glacial period as it is, whe people refer to the last ice age the are refering to now, we are still in it, its just an intervening period within which we should have a slight global warming, but it is currently in excess of what is projected from past inter-glacial periods. We hav all the weather data from the past couple of million years, but we blindly ignore it because oil is the life blood of the modern economy.
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No kiddo, it hurts, it always hurts. THAT is a fact, because it was tried over and over again.
And zanzibar, what you say there is more what different scientists believe, and on what they did agree.
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I understand the whole Theory vs. Fact debate, but there is many things I don't need to know for fact to believe they are true, eating certain things to know what they are, if it smells and looks like it, it is. Facts are, ice shelves are melting, creating more black water, which abosrbs the Suns rays, creating temperatures in the oceans to rise, making ice melt faster. The Green House effect is widely disputed, but there seems to be good evidence there something going on with, turn on the news, there are a lot more weird, wacky weather crap happening, things climate wise are definitely changing.
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Idoru, again, a theory isn't a fact. Period.
And if you read what I've said earlier, you'll see I mentioned that yes, we did speed up things, but that doesn't mean the world is falling apart!
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No kiddo, it hurts, it always hurts. THAT is a fact, because it was tried over and over again.
It's not a fact. It's induction. There's a difference. If you see a million black crows, you can conclude through induction that all crows are black. But until you've seen all crows, it's not a fact. It's merely induction. Same goes for getting hit in the face with a baseball bat. Philosophically speaking, that is.
And zanzibar, what you say there is more what different scientists believe, and on what they did agree.
Uh, what? Care to try saying that again?
Idoru, again, a theory isn't a fact. Period.
You're wrong for the reasons given to you in previous posts.
I'll dumb it down: Given the evidence at hand, Global Warming is a fact by most standards.
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Idoru, again, a theory isn't a fact. Period.
And if you read what I've said earlier, you'll see I mentioned that yes, we did speed up things, but that doesn't mean the world is falling apart!
Yet. If things are chnaging they will continue to change if we do nothing, and its the younger generations that will have to scrape what they can out of the mess they are in.
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but we blindly ignore it because oil is the life blood of the modern economy.
See, this is what I'm talking about. Global Warming in itself is real, but what it's made out to be is total propaganda. We're not going to go into another Ice Age - the world isn't going to end.
It's just hyped up so that people can moan about George Bush and oil-usage.
Don't get me wrong - pollution is another matter, and something I'm totally against, and maybe in the long-run all this hype about GW will invariably help clear up the pollution, but I still think it's a political contrivance.
[ Edited for language. --Karyuu ]
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Annah, I believe we had a discussion previously on the board where you denied the fact that the Romanian government denied the Romanian Holocaust. Despite that it made the headlines and is a well documented thing, and despite that the Romanian government itself does not deny making such claims, you refused to accept the facts. I think that this latest discussion with you is no different. You have the facts in front of you and you are simply choosing to ignore them because they conflict with your personal ideology.
Be well.
See, this is what I'm talking about. Global Warming in itself is real, but what it's made out to be is total propaganda. We're not going to go into another Ice Age - the world isn't going to end.
It's just hyped up so that people can moan about George Bush and oil-usage.
George Bush has only been around for about 7 years. People have been theorizing about Global Warming for decades.
The change in temperature is exactly proportional to atmospheric CO^2 levels. To say that the two are unrelated is foolish.
[ Edited for language. --Karyuu ]
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If the ice caps melt(FACT- They are melting) then much of Europe will share a climate with Moscow(FACT- Same distance from equator.) Ireland and England will most definatly freeze over without the gulf stream which is controled by its salt levels(FACT- It is.)
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Yeah that was a discussion I couldn't continue due to my eye surgery which was near. I'll gladly start talking about some points mentioned over there, coming with facts you're actually wrong. Like I said, I do live in Romania, and I know different things. Also, the Romanian goverment didn't deny the so called "Romanian Holocaust", they just said it simply did not occur! Don't come with pieces of paper with headline such as this subject, papers looking for a bit of rating. After all, around rating everything spins for them...
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Also, the Romanian goverment didn't deny the so called "Romanian Holocaust", they just said it simply did not occur!
Oh good lord.
God creates people like you to test me. That's the only explanation I have.
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Oh no, I exist to actually rule the world huh.
:love:
And yeah, I've told that with more simple words. "It did not occur". Want to come in Romania and take some trips to different areas which are related to the "Romanian Holocaust"?
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George Bush has only been around for about 7 years. People have been theorizing about Global Warming for decades.
The change in temperature is exactly proportional to atmospheric CO^2 levels. To say that the two are unrelated is foolish.
Yes, but people have only been panicking about it in the last few years since the Democrats decided it would be a good angle to attack from.
If the ice caps melt(FACT- They are melting) then much of Europe will share a climate with Moscow(FACT- Same distance from equator.) Ireland and England will most definatly freeze over without the gulf stream which is controled by its salt levels(FACT- It is.)
So, how much have they melted in the last 150 years, hm?
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Annah, to deny something means to say it did not happen.
Yes, but people have only been panicking about it in the last few years since the Democrats decided it would be a good angle to attack from.
What are you basing that on?
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Zanzibar, d'ohh! I've used "Also, the Romanian goverment didn't deny the so called "Romanian Holocaust", they just said it simply did not occur!", so you'll understand that if some say "yeah! it did happen!" that doesn't mean it did. Okay?
And emeraldfool, let's not go into politics when it comes to weather...
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So, how much have they melted in the last 150 years, hm?
I'm not sure of the exact amount but even the fact that they are melting should be cause for panic. They're not ment to melt. It's entirely idiotic to deny that the enviroment is being damaged.
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Actually Parallo, they are made to melt. Eventually...
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Zanzibar, d'ohh! I've used "Also, the Romanian goverment didn't deny the so called "Romanian Holocaust", they just said it simply did not occur!", so you'll understand that if some say "yeah! it did happen!" that doesn't mean it did. Okay?
And emeraldfool, let's not go into politics when it comes to weather...
Annah. Annah. Annah.
Annah.
/me hums like a Buddhist.
Water and stone. Water and stone.
Annah. The Romanian government said that the Romanian Holocaust never happened. That means that they denied that it happened. It's the same thing.
Actually Parallo, they are made to melt. Eventually...
Right. God invented Global Warming to test our faith. You see, if we admit that we can't pollute the planet without limit, then we give in to the fact that we don't have total dominion over the Earth. So we have to pollute more, not less, because this is a test of faith.
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Actually Parallo, they are made to melt. Eventually...
Oh, so we're ment to be plunged into another ice age right about now? Okay. I didn't know that. I'm going to buy an SUV.
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Oh for god's sake I know that! That "d'ohh!" actually says it. Public Relations. Using the same meaning in 2 different contexts, one near each other, means you want to underline something! And THAT something here is that hell yeah, they sure are in the position to deny it, since it didn't happen...
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Oh, so we're ment to be plunged into another ice age right about now? Okay. I didn't know that. I'm going to buy an SUV.
It's because France didn't support the invasion of Iraq. This is God's way of punishing France.
Oh for god's sake I know that! That "d'ohh!" actually says it. Public Relations. Using the same meaning in 2 different contexts, one near each other, means you want to underline something! And THAT something here is that hell yeah, they sure are in the position to deny it, since it didn't happen...
So you agree that the Romanian Government says it never happened. Thank you for your time, Mr. Resident Holocaust Denier.
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It's because France didn't support the invasion of Iraq. This is God's way of punishing France.
It all makes sence now! I feel... enlightened.
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So, how much have they melted in the last 150 years, hm?
I'm not sure of the exact amount but even the fact that they are melting should be cause for panic. They're not ment to melt. It's entirely idiotic to deny that the enviroment is being damaged.
I'm not saying it's not being damaged, I'm saying it's being damaged very very very slowly. Ya'll can sit and stare at the biggest popsicle in the world shouting "Global Warming!" every time you see a little dribble, but wouldn't it be more constructive focus on maybe... the cause, instead of ensuring everyone's scared s**tless before moving onto that...?
And where have you been Zanzibar? I barely watch American news, and I can tell instantly which side of the political spectrum the speaker is based on whether he goes hysterical when GW comes up or not
(Edit: whoa, 6 replies... this is hotter than that wipe thread...)
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Ya'll can sit and stare at the biggest popsicle in the world shouting "Global Warming!" every time you see a little dribble, but wouldn't it be more constructive focus on maybe... the cause, instead of ensuring everyone's scared s**tless before moving onto that...?
A little dribble? You just saved me some time. You see, I was going to dig up a bunch of websites to try to show you that there's information out there that you are unaware of. But since you're saying that the melting of the polar ice caps is merely "a little dribble", you've shown yourself to be ignorant beyond any hope of salvation.
Scientists are focusing on the cause, and the cause is pollution.
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Whaaaaat? I just stated yeah I agree with the theory it didn't happen. (And yes, it is a theory) And you were so sweet when you called me a nazi, it sounds nicer than Mr. Resident Holocaust Denier.
:P
Now really, we've come to a dead end about this weather discussion, no more arguing needed.
And emeraldfool, when you turn on your TV it spins around rating and personal political views of the one who owns the program(s). That's the first thing I've learnt at the University.
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Whaaaaat? I just stated yeah I agree with the theory it didn't happen. (And yes, it is a theory) And you were so sweet when you called me a nazi, it sounds nicer than Mr. Resident Holocaust Denier.
I'd call you a Nazi, but I'd probably get in trouble for it. ;)
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I'm not saying it's not being damaged, I'm saying it's being damaged very very very slowly. Ya'll can sit and stare at the biggest popsicle in the world shouting "Global Warming!" every time you see a little dribble, but wouldn't it be more constructive focus on maybe... the cause, instead of ensuring everyone's scared s**tless before moving onto that...?
Within ten years, at last count, it will be too advanced to reverse the process.
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Within ten years, at last count, it will be too advanced to reverse the process.
It's already impossible to reverse the process because of the social factors involved. Even if we got the United States under control - which is unlikely given the amount of ignorance perpetuated in its society - we'd still have to deal with China, and there's no hope of them respecting international concerns at the expense of their own economic growth.
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Really? Well, at least I've found out people can see the future hehe. I'm off to bed, I'll grab my PDA and I'll try finishing the damn project for PR, I have to talk about Microsoft and when they bought GeCad Software pff...
So, good night! And don't worry, the world is not falling apart, it's just becoming nicer for me.
Cheers!
:D
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A little dribble? You just saved me some time. You see, I was going to dig up a bunch of websites to try to show you that there's information out there that you are unaware of. But since you're saying that the melting of the polar ice caps is merely "a little dribble", you've shown yourself to be ignorant beyond any hope of salvation.
Scientists are focusing on the cause, and the cause is pollution.
I was exaggerating for comic effect :P
And it has never, ever been proven, that Global warming is the cause for the polar ice caps melting. Hello? 0.4 degrees? Guess how cold it is up in Antartica: -50 degrees. How could that make a difference?
(Goddamnit, 4 replies again...)
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Really? Well, at least I've found out people can see the future hehe.
Since you ignore history, it is of no surprise that the future is a mystery to you.
I was exaggerating for comic effect :P
You may wish to take more care with your jokes. To an unskilled eye such as my own, they often appear as ignorance.
Melting icecaps might not make sense to you, and that's fine. A lot of things don't make sense if you don't know much about them. kthxbye ^_^
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It's already impossible to reverse the process because of the social factors involved. Even if we got the United States under control - which is unlikely given the amount of ignorance perpetuated in its society - we'd still have to deal with China, and there's no hope of them respecting international concerns at the expense of their own economic growth.
I ment if we managed that. I'm thinking of fleeing the country and moving to Sweeden. I want to wash my hands of this place. Ireland's rediculous when it comes to this even though it will effect us greatly.
And it has never, ever been proven, that Global warming is the cause for the polar ice caps melting.
It has never been 'proven' that smoking causes lung cancer.
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I don't ignore it, I like to take it as it actually is.
Oh and:
ANTARCTIC WEATHER
Coldest Temp:
-129°F (-89°C) on July 21, 1983
Location: Vostok Station
Warmest Temp:
+59°F (+15°C) on Jan 5, 1974
Location: Vanda Station
Mean Temps:
Winter: -40 to -94°F (-40 to -70°C)
Summer: -5 to -31°F (-15 to -35°C)
Interesting how the warmest temperature was in '74, though the coldest was 9 years later...
Now really off to bed.
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OMG Annah, you are sounding like a complete fool now, please give up while you are substantially behind.
Again, after more replies, Annah, your making yourself look stupid.
I watch the BBC news, they have very few political constraints and normally report in an even handed manner. They agree and report that Global warming is happening and have zero need to side with the US government!
@emerald dont you mean DOWN in antarctica??
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Idoru, don't make idiotic statements okay? I did NOT call you neither stupid or something else. And I didn't mean BBC, I meant in general. And I didn't mean ONLY some US programs, again, world wide. So shut up, don't preach to me about things I'm specialized in.
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Interesting how the warmest temperature was in '74, though the coldest was 9 years later...
Why is it interesting?
So shut up, don't preach to be about things I'm specialized in.
When you're wrong, you're wrong. :D
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So shut up, don't preach to be about things I'm specialized in.
I hope your not claiming to be specialized in global warming...
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Melting icecaps might not make sense to you, and that's fine. A lot of things don't make sense if you don't know much about them. kthxbye ^_^
That's funny, you read enough articles on the internet - which almost always have an agenda other than to simply 'inform', be it political, or simply to cause as much hype as possible in order to sell copies/get advertising - and suddenly you're the expert.
I'm telling you, Global warming is NOT going to end the world, and it's NOT the cause of everything bad that happens, and if you don't believe me then by all means, sob in the corner and piss your pants. It wont make a difference.
If we solve global warming, the media will just find something else that nobody cared about before which will suddenly be the cause of imminent disaster. In the past they thought steam trains moved so fast they would cause severe brain damage to the people inside.
Don't get me wrong, global warming exists, and its a problem, but so is poverty, world hunger, pollution, animal extinction - tonnes of other stuff to waste our time pissing our pants about...
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I meant Public Relations, that covers the media area.
:innocent:
* Annah pokes zanzibar *
Hug me.
* edit *
And it's interesting because it shows how warm it became aye? * Place an ironic smile here *
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Don't get me wrong, global warming exists, and its a problem, but so is poverty, world hunger, pollution, animal extinction - tonnes of other stuff to waste our time pissing our pants about...
Are they going to cause an ice age?
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Emeraldfool, you keep trying to dismiss the facts by labelling them as hype, but you've yet to prove that they're hype even slightly. You just keep saying over and over again, "It's the media", "It's the lefties", "It's the chicken littles", blah blah blah. How about you come up with some proof, eh?
Don't get me wrong, global warming exists, and its a problem, but so is poverty, world hunger, pollution, animal extinction - tonnes of other stuff to waste our time pissing our pants about...
None of that changes the facts surrounding Global Warming.
Just a note, you do realize this discussion won't actually change anything aye?
Uh... frogs are green?
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Just a note, you do realize this discussion won't actually change anything aye?
* edit *
Oh, Anna Nicole Smith died by the way huh.
:(
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Don't get me wrong, global warming exists, and its a problem, but so is poverty, world hunger, pollution, animal extinction - tonnes of other stuff to waste our time pissing our pants about...
Are they going to cause an ice age?
You want me to form a theory around that? If I tell you that there's a chance letting a certain species get wiped out MAY result in an imbalance in the eco system, which MAY result in a massive infestation of rats in North America, which MAY result in a new more powerful form of the bubonic plague being released, which MAY result in the devastation of the American economy and a financial depression like no other... would you piss your pants for me?
Edit: What facts? Show me these facts about Global warming you have. All you've come up with so far is 'teh temprachure is sltly higher... liek 50000 degriz!!!11'. Common sense is my citation, it's your job - being the whacko - to sway me
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Hmm.
My best friend once told me that he melts the ice caps every time him and his girl friend get together.
Guess I should tell him to tone it back a bit.
And on the more serious note. Debates and discussions good, flamies and getting heated is bad, especially when talking about melting ice. I haven't seen any melt downs yet, so lets all keep a cool head about things.
I love puns.
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Ahahahaha... neko you were most welcomed with that comment.
:D
emeraldfool:
Coldest Temp:
-129°F (-89°C) on July 21, 1983
Warmest Temp:
+59°F (+15°C) on Jan 5, 1974
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Warmest Temp:
+59°F (+15°C) on Jan 5, 1974
Yes I think thats about 15 degrees above melting.
Wait when did I piss my pants? When did I speak like that? How about you fetch facts for yourself. I'm by no mean's your errand boy.
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Yep, 15 degrees above. Even so, the coldest temperature was recorded 9 years after. I don't really see a major warming, do you?
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Ahahahaha... neko you were most welcomed with that comment.
:D
emeraldfool:
Coldest Temp:
-129°F (-89°C) on July 21, 1983
Warmest Temp:
+59°F (+15°C) on Jan 5, 1974
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=glaciers+melting&search=Search
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I see wider fluxuations in tempature. It seems to me a sign of erratic tempatures.
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Yep, 15 degrees above. Even so, the coldest temperature was recorded 9 years after. I don't really see a major warming, do you?
Yes, especially on a global scale.
Here's a good one for the uninformed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsgB92LemjI
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Warmest Temp:
+59°F (+15°C) on Jan 5, 1974
Yes I think thats about 15 degrees above melting.
Wait when did I piss my pants? When did I speak like that? How about you fetch facts for yourself. I'm by no mean's your errand boy.
'OMG, Global warming is coming! THE ICE AGE IS UPON US! I need to evacuate Ireland...! Screw poverty! THE ICE AGE IS UPON US!'
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Oh my god, some people are poor! Ignore stopping the ice age while we have the chance!
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If you don't have something constructive to say, time to put the keyboard away.
K?
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Ok ok, now really off to bed. It's something "bad", if you want to see something bad. That's what they said when we screwed up the ozone layer and that hole was found, oh my, we're doomed! Later to find out it actually regenerates itself. The hole is getting smaller, so yes, that means it's at a rate higher than how we're "damaging" it. Just see the bright side of everything, you'll live longer.
:innocent:
And zanzibar, take some time someday, and check everything related to Europe, Jupiter's moon. Maybe you'll find there your perfect everlasting Antarctica...
I don't want to be mean, it's just that it helps sometime to see the positive sides.
And emeraldfool, we're having a calm discussion here, a discussion "carried" by I say mature people. Your language is rather childish, and too aggressive, continue like that and I'll personally stalk you to a dark cold place where I'll give life to my darkest horror dreams.
Oh, I forgot! Good Night.
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'OMG, Global warming is coming! THE ICE AGE IS UPON US! I need to evacuate Ireland...! Screw poverty! THE ICE AGE IS UPON US!'
Emerald, are now you agreeing with everything I've said? You're just saying that poverty is a bigger priority?
(Btw, when did I say that poverty wasn't a priority? I must have been possessed by evil spirits because I don't recall saying such a thing.)
Later to find out it actually regenerates itself.
I already address this in an earlier post. You're actually the victim of a popularized myth. The ozone layer can regenerate itself, but it does so very, very slowly - much more slowly than the rate at which it's being destroyed, even today. The chemicals that destroy it remain in the atmosphere for 75 years before quitting.
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Emerald, are now you agreeing with everything I've said? You're just saying that poverty is a bigger priority?
(Btw, when did I say that poverty wasn't a priority? I must have been possessed by evil spirits because I don't recall saying such a thing.)
Why would you think that was directed at you? Why? I mean, I specifically quoted Parallo, specifically targeting the part where he forgot he countered my 'lets worry about poverty' comment with 'poverty doesn't cause ice ages'. You're not the object of my every thought, Zanzi :P
(On the same note, I was reflecting Paro's thought process, not my own :P)
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(On the same note, I was reflecting Paro's thought process, not my own :P)
You most certainly were not.
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(On the same note, I was reflecting Paro's thought process, not my own :P)
You most certainly were not.
Well, sure, my way is funnier, but I think the same idea's there. Everything else should be ignored because it's possible that in 100 years, the water will get colder.
Do you know how many 'grey areas' there are between buying an SUV and sending europe into an Ice Age? It's almost absurd. Nobody knows anything about global warming for sure, but they still see fit to panic about it.
All these facts are based on (and I think this was what Annah was trying to hit on) scientist's summations of the situation. If people keep using the same amount of petrol/emitting the same amount of CO2 in the next 50 years. If the temperatures keep rising. If these rising temperatures significantly melt the polar ice caps. If the gulf stream is interrupted.
'What if the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria fall off the edge of the world!?'
Nobody knows until it actually happens. That doesn't mean we shouldn't care, but we shouldn't lose sleep over it either.
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I loose sleep over it because it's only my generation that can do more anything it. I don't want to contribute to what will happen. If you choose to ignore whats blatently laid infront of you then thats you thats at fault.
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I loose sleep over it because it's only my generation that can do more anything it. I don't want to contribute to what will happen. If you choose to ignore whats blatently laid infront of you then thats you thats at fault.
Blatantly ignore what? The media frenzy? The shaky articles filled with 'nobody really knows, but we think the world is gonna end' and 'we're not sure on the exact figures, so we're going to grab at the first ones we come across and pretend they're relevant'.
Global warming is like THE filler-story for every news station around the globe. If nothing is blowing up, and no people are getting killed, just run a story on how the world will end. Sorted.
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Do you know how many 'grey areas' there are between buying an SUV and sending europe into an Ice Age? It's almost absurd. Nobody knows anything about global warming for sure, but they still see fit to panic about it.
Why is it that you're so quick to make such claims on something you've shown yourself to know so little about? Yes, it may seem absurd to someone who knows very little about it.
If people keep using the same amount of petrol/emitting the same amount of CO2 in the next 50 years.
Fossil fuel usage will increase, not decrease, amplifying the problem. But yes, the way things are right now are bad enough to send us into an iceage, but output will only increase as China and other areas of the world industrialize.
If the temperatures keep rising.
Temperatures will surely continue to rise at an exponential rate, just as they are currently.
If these rising temperatures significantly melt the polar ice caps.
Rising temperatures have already cause the ice caps to significantly melt, not to mention Greenland.
If the gulf stream is interrupted.
Ocean currents have been interrupted in the past. Given identical conditions, they will surely be interrupted again. This is not speculation; this is historical fact.
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IF Emerald would watch the inconvenient truth by al gore...
http://www.climatecrisis.net/
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IF Emerald would watch the inconvenient truth by al gore...
He'd surely find some excuse to dismiss the facts it prevents.:)
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Unlikely. Unless he ventures into the plains of pure stupidity and imagination.
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Well... It doesnt matter too much weather or nt we get frozen. Most of us will have lost everything by then anyway, alot of major cities are pretty much near large bodies of wateer right?
Ice caps are melting, water level is rising alot, London, New York, anywhere near a a sea or a large river or a large water source is going under in like 50 years.
So before we all gather to be turned into icicles on a small rock somewhere to save whats left of the human race, and try not to drown.
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50 years, maybe. I think we'll start seeing serious changes long before that.
Ocean levels rising well in excess of 20 feet... goodbye Netherlands, goodbye most of India. I wonder will all those people are going to move to.
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4 inches? that's nothing!
We recently had like 40cm!
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2355/pc160045aw3.jpg)
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It snowed in Lisbon. And that's rare. It's the second time it happens in my life time :P. (19 years)
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So before we all gather to be turned into icicles on a small rock somewhere to save whats left of the human race, and try not to drown.
Welcome to Ireland.
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Humans keep pumping nasty gasses into the atmosphere. The more humans the more gasses, the more problems for the humans, the more humans die, the less humans there are, the less gasses there are, the less problems there are... Just nature sorting itself out.
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That actually kinda made sense...
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That actually kinda made sense...
If it weren't for the fact that the human population is still increasing at an ever faster and faster rate.
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50 years, maybe. I think we'll start seeing serious changes long before that.
Ocean levels rising well in excess of 20 feet... goodbye Netherlands, goodbye most of India. I wonder will all those people are going to move to.
Netherlands will probably be ok, they've got a big wall.. or is that Denmark?
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The Netherlands has be reclaiming the sea for many years but I really think there is a limit to how big you can build a dike, the higher the sea rises the more of their country they will have to encircle to stay dry. Wouldn't that be something go to Holland and you get off the boat at the seawall wherever you arrive and go down into the countryside.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy)
Funding of skeptics
Some of these opponents to the anthropogenic, global-warming theory have links to the fossil- fuels industry. [37] For example, Patrick J. Michaels and Frederick Seitz have both been linked to the George C. Marshall Institute--Michaels as a "visiting scientist" and Seitz as "Chairman Emeritus.".[38] The Institute has received numerous large grants from ExxonMobil, and from petroleum-related organizations such as the Sarah Scaife Foundation and the Carthage Foundation [39][40][41]Similarly, the Competitive Enterprise Institute has received several large grants from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, and from ExxonMobil.[42][43]The CEI website lists both S. Fred Singer and Robert Balling as "experts," while Ross McKitrick headed up a CEI project called the Cooler Heads Coalition.[44][45] Many observers are critical of these connections, suggesting that they pose a conflict of interest. [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53].
Scientists, critical of some aspects of the discussion and their donors, dispute the validity of this guilt-by-association argument. These same critics are, themselves, part of government, state-college, and university systems; the scientific organizations listed in the proponents section; or some mix. Most have been considered skeptics, or at least somewhat skeptical, of certain points since long before the funding was provided. For example, according to the Forbes story [54] listed above, The Intermountain Rural Electric Association of Sedalia, CO (IREA) funded Patrick Michaels because according to its GM "'We cannot allow the discussion to be monopolized by the alarmists,'" and said that, although he "...believes [that] global warming is real, just not as big a problem as scientists claim, he acknowledged [that] this is a special-interest issue. He said the bigger concern is his 130,000 customers, who want to keep rates low, so coal-dependent utilities need to prevent any taxes or programs that penalize fossil fuel use." In that same article, Donald Kennedy of Science, said that " 'skeptics such as Michaels are lobbyists more than researchers' "; and that " 'I don't think it's unethical any more than most lobbying is unethical,' "; and that " ...donations to skeptics amounts to 'trying to get a political message across.' " This tends to further refine the entire dispute as being one of a political nature.
Other criticisms of funding are made by groups known to be in direct opposition to either corporations in general or energy ones in particular, such as the Mother Jones criticism of ExxonMobil donating to groups such as the American Council for Capital Formation [55]. Such groups complain that the ACCF presented an appendix that focused only on the uncertainties of a 2001 NAS report when the ACCF testified in front of the U.S. Senate. Mother Jones’ complaint seems to be only that, although the ACCF usually focuses on economic critiques of policies, this time they wrote something one-sided about the science involved in the debate to support their economic position on the Kyoto Protocol. Doing that, according to Mother Jones, puts them in the skeptic camp.
Similarly, before starting JunkScience.com, Steven Milloy belonged to an organization called The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), which was paid by tobacco companies to cast doubt on studies about the dangers of secondhand smoke [56] [57]. Most of the authors of these editorials, their websites, or the publications themselves are almost universally extremely critical of the role of industry and government in environmental matters, and focus almost entirely on negative aspects of the debate [58] [59] [60] [61].
What is more important? The welfare of future generations or the profits of the big corporations and the reckless consumerism of the "American Way of Life"?
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Just a few facts:
The Earth is not a static environment. Means: It -will- change.
The hole in the ozone is -not- getting smaller. Means: This last year is the biggest ever recorded.
A mini ice age occurred less than two hundred years ago. Means: They can happen without our help.
Greenhouse gasses help warm the Earth. Means: Keyword 'help'. They are not the only cause of global warming, but they are the one thing we can partially curb. I say partially, because CO2 is not the only, nor worst of the greenhouse gasses.
The sun is in an expanding cycle: Means: You are so screwed if you think getting rid of greenhouse gasses is going to stop global warming. The Earth -is- slowly going to get hotter, and there is nothing we can do about it.
The polar caps are melting. Means: Move inland, or get wet.
Humans are the most adaptable creature on the planet. Means: We will survive most changes in weather. Other creatures will not. extinction is a fact of life, folks. You can't save everything. See fact one.
Antarctica had a temperature spike way back when. Means: Nothing. It was a fluke in the weather pattern. Shall I go outside right now and say it never rains in Wisconsin because it did not rain today? Or that there is always six inches of ice on the river because that is what I just measured? Only a fool predicts the weather by one day. Weather is a huge and evolving creature that we can barely understand. You can only begin to understand it by looking at statistics encompassing years, centuries, or millennia. Anything else is just idiocy.
The moon is drifting further away from the Earth every year. Means: Unknown, but something with one sixth our own gravity moving away from us will have a profound effect. The tides will get weaker as well. Not to worry, the Moon moves away at less than four inches a year. Fact: The moon was six times larger in the sky in the time of the dinosaurs.
The Earth is slowing down. Means: Unknown. This is so much bigger than us that most can not comprehend what it might mean. Incidentally, one leading theory is that the Moon is what is robbing the Earth of its spin, and thus gives it a four inch boost further out into space. Want to know how? Look it up. I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the oceans.
Greenland used to be green. Means: See point one.
Bush has stripped the science budget for environmental studies. Means: If you can't see it, it must not be there. How scary is that? Sure, you can try to blame Congress, but guess who has the power of Veto. What you do not stop, you allow by default.
The permafrost in Siberia is melting. Means: First you must know exactly what a great deal of permafrost is made of before you can understand what this means. Permafrost is basically frozen biomassthat has built up for thousands of years. When biomass melts, it starts to rot. When it rots, it give off an insane amount of methane. Fact: Methane is a far more effective greenhouse gas than CO2. This is the cycle: Biomass melts and rots -> massive amounts of methane release, increase greenhouse effect, warming the Earth -> more biomass melts -> etc. Means: We can not stop global warming anymore.
The ocean floors are covered in methylhydrates. Means: Methylhydrates are basically a mixture of pure methane in a water crystal matrix. The cold and pressure of the ocean depths keeps it that way. If something were to disturb the cold currents, bad things can happen. Very bad things. Interesting fact: A release of methane from disturbed methylhydrates will sink any ship instantly. Fact two: There is a huge deposit of methylhydrates under the Bermuda Triangle.
The point of the last two statements is simple. They are both gigantic boulders balanced on a ledge. Once they begin to tip over that ledge, there will not be anything that can stop them. Doomsday for the planet? Who knows? You have to remember at one point the entire surface of this world was warm and tropical. You also have to remember that at another time, half the planet was covered in ice. No one will know how we are going to end up until we get there. It could be something rare could happen, and the Earth will continue its precarious balancing act... and stay relatively the same.
I would like to wrap this up by saying there are many other things to consider, such as the oceans getting saltier, the Earth tipping more on its axis, the effect of highways and cities on temperature, meteors, and many others. The biggest point is, we are simply not the masters of this world. Humans and human suffering really means nothing on the larger scale. With or without us, the world will go on, until our sun turns into a red giant in a few billion years…and swallows it.
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Whoa. That's an "uber post" if I ever saw one. You're obviously educated on this topic, more so than I am.
The only thing I'll add is that average world temperatures over the last 400,000 years are highly correlational to atmospheric CO^2 levels.
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I should really print that out and show it around to some neurotic people...
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Just take them to see An Inconvienient Truth. My friend watched it the other day. I'm normally preaching to him about it and now he's on a campaign to have it shown at the local primary and secondary schools.
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I dont know if anyone has mentioned Global Dimming (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=1027879546389218797&q=bbc+horizon+earth), Interesting BBC Horizon episode.
This is a documentary that deals with a climatic phenomenon that has been seriously underestimated and how this should forc us to recognise that global warming is a far greater threath than has previously been assumed. It's from the BBC so it's very good, clear and to the point. A must see for anyone wondering about the state of the Earth.
The earth has gone through many different stages, and as have been stated in this thread, it will continue to do so. One stage that dosent come up to often is the Snowball Event (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/159988.stm), not to be confused with an Ice Age.
The earths rotation is also slowing, along with the Schumann Resonance (earths vibration frequency). What effects these have are varying in opinion, one extreme view on these effects is Zero point (http://www.2012.com.au/SchumannResonance.html).