PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Under the moon on March 10, 2007, 12:20:38 am
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The following images should be self explanaitory.
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7893/knowndk8.jpg)
Here we see it as it is now.
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/364/optioneh1.jpg)
New option for lables. Click it. Also, turn off invisible.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6300/asknownjn3.jpg)
Let's pretend this one says Enki, rather than Kran, and the name is Boon. Set Boon, who is your friend, as known. Also can be done with /known Boon.
(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4664/alljd8.jpg)
Now you can pick out the folks you know in a crowd. This has no affect on the chat box, but could with more advanced options, such as 'lighting up' the (?) above the speaker's head for a few moments.
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This option would be very good for guild names, but for names it still seems cumbersome.
The visibility option should affect the showing of the unknown names (i.e., if "visible on mouse" is ticked along "known only", then always show known names, and have the unknown names show on mouseover). In any case the system should display unknown names in a different colour (except for those that have special colours). Same for NPCs of all sorts. The "Mark as known" should be accessible from the context menu, not just from the description (less cumbersome).
Lighting up the speaker's name / "(?)" is a good idea, and the chatbox could also become sensitive, so if you hover the mouse over a message, then that speaker's name lights up in a special way (like repeatedly fading in and out, added brackets, etc.) / different color. Same for all types of messages (/tell, etc.).
While we're at it, we might also make the messages of known people (at least /tell, /group and /guild) a different color than all other's messages, which might make it easier to pick out "your" conversation, but may also have the opposite effect.
Still it would require one to associate avatars with messages instead of just looking at the name tag, which will be very confusing if there's a group of (close to) identical avatars, at least if they are moving. It's like separating twins that you don't know very well.
As I said, great for guild names, but (at least for my taste) too cumbersome for names.
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I don't see the point of this. Are you really so popular you need to be reminded who you know and don't know? :P
It might stop noobs from OOCly knowing your name, but they're a lost cause anyway...
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Isn't this replica #100 or so of this topic?
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Maybe its a replica - but those happen - I think his point here was an idea for implementation not that the idea itself is new. Not that the idea is bad. In real life I'd never be able to run into a crowd of people and name everyone there because I wouldn't know them. I've suggested going as far as having some names "fade" from memory if your encounters with them are rare, while others eventually get committed to permanent memory. The labels are they are are totally OOC, and if the focus is on RP as much as it seems to be claimed then something eventually needs to change.
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reposting the exact same thread after a mod locked and then deleted the first thread is a VERY bad idea.
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Unless the mod gave him permission - and actually reopened the same thread. I'll be sure to be more obvious with my actions next time. Don't worry, Neko.
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/me smiles.
I guess I was not clear enough on the purpose of this wish, and should have included a screenshot of when there are twenty people or more surrounding poor Harn. I like to call it the Neon Green Blob of Scrambled Names, or Namespam. The use of it is the same reason you have a buddylist that alerts you to players you know logging on and off, rather than every single player. It is more of an OOC tool that an IC feature, just like the other label options. It is much like the /ignore command.
Seytra, filtering known guild names could be an option as well, as well as those other options you spoke of. I had thought of those as well, but wanted to keep it simple in my example (and was too lazy to edit the XML or edit the pic to show more). I would like the option just to show known guilds, known characters, know friends, known enemies, etc. This might best be done with a clientside filter for each of your characters to take pressure off the server. As for being cumbersome, a simple /known <name> does not seem all that hard to me for the benefits of recognizing a character running across the plaza as someone you might know, and killing the Neon Blob.
I do not think it should affect the chat window as a default, but maybe an option. I do like the way it changes color if someone says your name. It could also change if you hear the voice of someone you know. I would like to note here that you can know someone -without- knowing their name. I have worked on and off with a guy for over a year, and know his face and voice very well. never actually asked his name until a week ago. But, I would have been able to pick him out in a crowd as someone I knew.
Now, if you are in a larg group, and want to know who is saying what, just turn the option to Names only. Just like turning off invisible. No big deal.
e-fool: Read the post TWICE before you start spitting out incoherant drible. This is to filter -your own- view of other's labels, not how others see you. I guess the images were not self explantory enough after all. Next time I will draw them in crayon, and hire you a tutor. (sorry, Mods, if that was overly flame-y. Remove it is you think it is uncalled for)
Nurahk: No, it is not. Similar to the other topics, but not the same. This has more in common with the buddy list and label options than a system of forced recognition. That is why it is in a new thread rather than the others I found. Search is my friend.
Induane: This would be mostly OOC tool for telling you who your character knows IC at a glance. It is up to you to RP who your character sees. And it gets rid of the Blob. I am against a forced name system, after thinking about it. If a few newbies, or even a player that has been around slips and says your name, just glass it over, and play it up. It is not a great problem. The Blob scares me more. In fact, I was just in the tavern fireden, and did not know my character's good friend Einnol was there until he spoke. Then it took me a while to actually find where he was sitting. There was less than seven people down by the fire at the time.
neko: I still love you, and forgive you.
Karyuu >me
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neko: I still love you, and forgive you.
Karyuu >me
:love: you too moony.
offer you a cookie?
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I like this idea a lot and think it should be the default state. You can still click on another character and see the name on the status bar or examine using the context menu. I would further suggest that the context message box should not list the players name until you have been /introduced or you have had enough encounters that the likelihood of someone having let slip the name in your presence is high enough. This may not be practical though.
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I really do llove this idea. It makes totaly sense to me and seems perfectly reasonable.
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Default, no. Too anti-newbie. No affect on the chatbox either. Too greif-able.
This is a tool for once you get to know the game, not a detrerrent from others who do not know you from saying your name. That -has- been talked to death in other threads, and shot down for good reason.
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Hey, screw you. :P I'm just asking why you need the game mechanics to help you pick your friends out in a crowd.
If you are a good RPer, which you do seem to be, the character names floating over their heads don't make a difference. The only thing they do is clear up OOC confusion as to who's saying what, and where they are, etc. But that's OOC anyway, and everybody knows it, so why try to make things harder for yourself by hiding them...?
Besides, I'm not sure why you seem to hate me so much, but I think I have a right to be misinterpret 4 pictures and a few lines of text without being attacked, no matter how clear you think they are :P
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I was not talking about the chat box, I was talking about the character desciption window access by using the eyeball icon of the context menu. After all you cannot usually tell sobodies name by looking at them. Of course bilbous has his stamped on his forehead, though I really am thinking of having the skin grow over the tattoo.
You do not mention it, but I think this should only apply to players and not gms or npc's
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It is up to RP to decide who your character knows. I am not in favor of hiding names in descrptions. That would be irritating more than anything.
Emeraldfool, I have explained very well the 'why' of this, but you seem to have missed it yet again. So I have taken the liberty of making another screenshot. Sorry it is not in crayon.
(http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/7245/blobrk1.jpg)
That is the formation of a minor Blob of five or so characters. They are not too bad, as they are about as dangerous as a Green Slime. The problem really starts when you add a few more folks to the mix, and end up with a major Blob. We are talking 20th level Red Slime territory. Now, I have witnessed Uber Blobs before, of twenty or more characters in a crowd. Have you ever faced a 100th level Metal Slime? The characters under that Blob seemed to be unaware of the danger.
Now, pick out the folks you might know in a Major, or Uber Blob. Then get back to me on why you might need game mechanics to help.
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Sorry it is not in crayon.
Oh man, I love that lol
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What an odd phenomenon. See, I use the default settings - with that, all names are hidden until you highlight the character with your cursor.
Guess what that means!? No blobs! Yay! Problem solved. Do I get a cookie?
(Relax. Even if I did get it all wrong, blowing up at people very very rarely has a positive impact on anything. It has an impact though...)
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I stand firm by my belief that at least part of the issue would be taken care if we had less ugly labels! (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6632/grinby0.gif) Honestly, no one is that blind... I don't know why we can't choose something much cleaner looking - something this size (http://premium.uploadit.org/DownY007/Screen4.gif) would be more than adequate.
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Metal slime huh?
King Slime: http://www.digistash.com/data/c042f4db68f23406c6cecf84a7ebb0fe/full_291_p80474.jpeg
when spread out though.... http://www.negafox.com/other/wow_40.jpg
not so bad.
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emeraldfool, no, you do not. The problem is even worse then, as you would have to go through every single person in the crowd and highlight each one. Total waste of time. Don't forget about the characters who line up with each other, or the ones that run past before you can highlight them.
I really do not see what your huge problem with this OPTION is. Re-read that again. O_P_T_I_O_N. Option. Did I mention that it is an option? What is an option? Why, it is something you do not have to use if you do not want to. 'Name and Guild' is an option. 'Name Only' is an option. 'Visible on Mouse' is an option, etc, etc. You don't want to use it? Then go to another thread, and let the folks who would like such a thing talk.
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:) Easy there UtM - antagonizing back and forth goes nowhere. Sometimes its best to ignore such posts and continue like they never happened or request a mod remove them if they are completely pointless. Either way no one should be getting so up in arms in this thread - its a simple thread with a simple request for a simple option. Options are nice because they allow functionality to fit differing opinions and preferences. Nothing wrong with having options you don't like, the real question should be is there a pool of people large enough who would find this particular option useful to justify time spent adding it.
My opinion though is that NPC's SHOULD learn your name given enough time and that shouldn't be an option, it should just happen. As to how you remember the names of people you know ingame - up to you :D
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I like the idea a lot and it has a little something there that actually takes away from the game mechanics and more into how one would know someone in a real world.
Looking at the description is like taking a glance at that person and should reflect (in my opinion) something that would be plainly visible on... well... a first glance :) : what that person is wearing and a bit of something you recall about him/her. Selecting the "known" thingy would simply mean your choice to recognize though game mechanics the people you actually know.
Makes sense to me. Vote ++
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My opinion though is that NPC's SHOULD learn your name given enough time and that shouldn't be an option, it should just happen. As to how you remember the names of people you know ingame - up to you :D
See, that's what I thought he was talking about, but it turns out he's just too lazy to sweep the cursor around the screen, like I always do and have been doing for months and never had a problem with. It takes all of ten seconds to point at each person on-screen and see their name - and usually I do that anyway to read their descriptions.
The main issue with this is, unless you know them, you'll have no idea where any new people who are talking are. Every time you want to meet someone new, you'll have to go into your options, enable all names, find the speaker in the crowd, open his description, mark him as known, then set the option back to 'known' only again, and then continue the RP. (Unless he introduces his friend and you have to do it again). Whereas I'd just point my cursor at them and match the name to the chatbox. (That flashing name/exclaimation mark idea might help, but I can see it as being very awkward for people who tend to focus more on the chatbox anyway)
Even still, I'm not saying this is a bad idea, per se - if it'll make you happy, then fine. But I really don't think your snotty attitude is necessary just because somebody doesn't like your idea. I'm getting sick of your "everything I say is law because everybody loves me and they'll all agree, so you're an idiot for thinking otherwise" rationale...
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/me sighs
I am not going to say you are an idiot, but it is hard to prove otherwise when you still did not read the entire first post, or the following ones, where it clearly states you can use /known <name> to add someone to your known list. Tab complete makes that very easy. There could even be an easy button to push to toggle the 'known' on and off.
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Ok emerald fool, here's how you find someone new in a crowd who speaks. Have this addition allow you to see the guy's name by clicking on their name in the chat box. say noobie1234 says hi. click on his name in the chatbox (ie: noobie1234 says: hi) suddenly, you can see where he is. this way, you can easily figure out who's talking. That was a noob speaking, and that's my solution. P.S. Emeraldfool, we're not saying you can't use your mouseover technique. we're just saying we want to beable to use this. quote: "This land is my land, that land is your land, i don't take your land, 'n' you do the same to me-e-e-e, Fighting is re-e-etarded....." (sing ot the tune of: "this land is my land, this land is your land, etc)
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Quite often I end up walking up to people and going hey - I'm Induane, who are you my friend? It works as an introduction and asks for a name without waving my cursor around. Plus in real life I don't have a magic wand shaped like an arrow I can hover around in front of my face that tells me who everyone is. That system is fine but nothing wrong with options for the hardcore RP'rs who try to keep it all as IC as possible. Even I'm not like that but I do find the name thing obnoxious. Still though there are plenty who don't so to each his own. Calling people names and arguing blah blah blah you're an idiot - whiner etc gets us nowhere. A good discussion on the merits has come along though despite this and that is what needs to happen. :D
/me hands emeraldfool a cookie just for good measure.
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/me hands emeraldfool a cookie just for good measure.
/me knocks the cookie out of induane's hand and then stomps on it in a tantrum. "I'm entitled to my opinion, damnit!"
:P
Maybe I'm wrong, but it's not about that any more. It's about this:
e-fool: Read the post TWICE before you start spitting out incoherant drible. This is to filter -your own- view of other's labels, not how others see you. I guess the images were not self explantory enough after all. Next time I will draw them in crayon, and hire you a tutor. (sorry, Mods, if that was overly flame-y. Remove it is you think it is uncalled for)
I'd expect that from Zanzibar or somebody, but I always sort of respected you, and I was kinda shocked...
Don't worry though, I wont be caught off-guard by you again...
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Offtopic mode on:
We all have our moments, I suggest you both chill, there's nothing wrong with having different opinions on a matter.
@emeraldfool: I don't want to be mean, but you have got a little too over-critic during the last posts I've read, generally speaking. Stating your opinion is good, insisting on it 'till you drive the person at the other end of the conversation out of his wits isn't good. Just my personal opinion on it.
@Under the moon: Erm... that outburst from a while back was a bit too harsh, even for my dulled tastes when seeing a good flame. Now, personally, when I run into such a situation I tend to re-read what I've said earlier in the topic and check whether there's anything straight to the point that I can add in the most blatant way possible, walking right past a possible (or even unintentional) flamebait. If there isn't, I breathe in deeply and back away. Seriously, I've seen to many mini/mega flame wars around some of the forums I used to visit to be even bothered with such trivial matters. If I do bite on a (pseudo)flamebait though, the next day I bite my tongue so as to drive away the "temptation" away from me.
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Well, I think I have made my point perfectly clear, and this will be my last post on the matter. The reason for the 'outburst' was quite simply in response to emeraldfool's pointless, misconstrued, and belittling first post.
I don't see the point of this.
Now, if I do not see the point of an idea, I step out of the thread and ignore it. If I think it is a bad idea, I will say so, and give good reason why.
Are you really so popular you need to be reminded who you know and don't know? :P
This felt very much belittling and insulting to me, besides making little sense. A popular character could know half a crowd or more, so the filter would do them no good. I would use this for close friends of my characters and have mouseover as a backup for looking around at others. Nothing wrong with having both.
It might stop noobs from OOCly knowing your name, but they're a lost cause anyway...
This just irritated me, as it is direct proof he did not read the entire post, or put very little thought into what the wish was even about before impulse posting. All of his following post just said basically "Play like I do, and there is no problem." which increased the irittation.
Had he even shown that he had considered how people play differently than himself before posting, then there would not have been a flame. Now, I was only irritated at him when making my posts. I log off when truly angry. But, in the end my point was made clear. Put thought into your posts when looking at other's ideas, or beware.
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I don't see the point of this.
Now, if I do not see the point of an idea, I step out of the thread and ignore it.
Or you post and ask about it, hoping to get a better understanding of what the person is trying to suggest (http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3914/smilebp2.gif) Enough discussing each other, please. Back to the original subject.
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Love the idea UtM.. I have always wanted people to not know names until aquantied. Though I think everyone should be '? ? ?' until THEY greet you. When you greet someone it reveals your name, if they greet you, it reveals their name... Though the jist of that was already brought out, great idea. :woot: