PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: emeraldfool on March 12, 2007, 09:56:11 pm
-
This is something that has always deeply fascinated me: The concept that there are people who can - or at least believe beyond all doubt that they can - control the physical world with their minds (known as 'psionics')
For one thing, I'm fairly open-minded, and a part of me wonders if these people really are creating balls of colour with their mind, or using their abilities to 'spar' or turn invisible.
Although I am rather skeptical, I'd be even more interested if it wasn't true - it means that there are people who believe so strongly in this phenomenon that they can actually force each other to hallucinate!
Here's some sites:
http://psionguild.org/php/index.php?page=home - that's an actual online 'guild' (or rather a NPO) for Psions, which has them looking out for one another and such things. They have a forum too: http://www.psionguild.org/forums/index.php
http://zhkyrl.brinkster.net/psionline/home.html - a site dedicated to fostering 'psions', containing guides on 'psionic techniques' (such as a "Psiball" (http://zhkyrl.brinkster.net/psionline/b_psiball.html))
Just read the tone of one of those articles (like the Psiball one I showed you). These people aren't psychotic, and they're not on drugs (at least it doesn't seem that way). Except for this ability (- to hallucinate at will, or to control their environments, depending on your beliefs) they seem pretty much normal.
Either way, I would love to meet one of these 'elite' psions...
What are your thoughts?
-
What are your thoughts?
You can read them if this is not another new age joke! :P
-
reading some of the articles on that site are pretty interesting.. Do they actually physically see the ball or shield? or is just in their mind? DO you just decide " i wanna do this" and go do it?
Some confusing stuff here. Personally i think its made up, just like how many of us roleplay and it feels as if its reality.
-
Some confusing stuff here. Personally i think its made up, just like how many of us roleplay and it feels as if its reality.
Maybe, but there's a difference between getting into a Roleplay, and having an altered sense of reality.
I've read some stuff about people discussing their 'powers', and even 'sessions' they've had with each other. Many people claim to be able to pass emotions to each other via psiballs (e.g. instead of saying 'goodbye', they would throw a psychic ball at each other). And many others claim to create coloured psiballs.
The thing that interests me, is unlike palm-readers, or UFO conspirators, or new-age hippies, all these people seem totally normal and casual - as if they were discussing any old hobby, like fishing. And whereas the others can exist within a grey area (where you could convince yourself the plane you saw at night was a UFO, or that unlikely premonition wasn't just a coincidence), these people all truly believe that they're actively and consistently doing these things, through both emotional and visual manifestations.
It's intriguing...
-
The ability to hallucinate and portray the world in a different fashion than it really exists isn't rare; in fact I would say everyone does it to a certain extent, every day. These people are just products of either traumatic events, schizophrenia (which is much more prevalent than many people realize) or a mix of both.
-
The ability to hallucinate and portray the world in a different fashion than it really exists isn't rare; in fact I would say everyone does it to a certain extent, every day. These people are just products of either traumatic events, schizophrenia (which is much more prevalent than many people realize) or a mix of both.
But that's the thing - schizophrenia and post-traumatic stress disorder are both rather random, and both are very prominent psychological disorders (the mere fact that it's called a disorder means it's strong enough to have detrimental effects to certain aspects of the sufferer's life). If it's not a strong enough case to be classed as a disorder, then it's a moot point.
And we're not talking about individual trauma here - there's an entire community who all believe the same exact thing, see the same exact thing. Usually in unison - they meet up and practice their 'abilities' together, help each other to improve, etc. There's whole books on psionic methodology, which when people follow it, seems to make them better at it...
-
Most of the ideas of psionics and the like remind me of the Law of Attraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Attraction). Many of the ideas of and behind it are to my knowledge true as I have seen them. Of course you can give any name to this idea really; magick, psionics, god, energy, the universe. Whatever you call it, on a basic scientific level everything is energy. It can not be made or destroyed just manipulated. So, people do it every day (manipulate it that is), some on a grander scale than others. Like many of people that had a dream of greatness and with passion and love followed that dream. Thus with great work and passion did they bring it to fruition. The thing is how people cope with what has come about from it. Some use a idea to associate it to their life as to be able to explain it to themselves and others. Others choose to not acknowledge or understand it at all. That it fine too. To each their own I say.
The biggest obstacle most people come upon is mystery or the unknown. I see mystery as the enemy of truth. For it shrouds the most simple of things sometimes in ones mind. Making things much more complex and difficult than they might otherwise be. The unknown in general has always put people at unease. The thought of the lack of control of whatever or the uncertainty of what is to come has always made things difficult. It is the single thought or desire that one pursues with such vehemence that it manifest before them that helps balance out mystery and the unknown. As such one feels a sense of control as they themselves made this thing manifest. It may be something as simple as a new outfit. So one works or finds some means of obtaining what they want. In the end it is the single thought process and the work behind it that brings it into manifestation in their life.
One way I have seen such things can be found here (http://grandlodgeofthelema.org/gltlibrary/000117.php). Of course this is one of the ideas I was speaking about earlier. There are many other ways that people have came to similarities in philosophy and the same end result of attaining what they desire. It is really up to each individual to control and form their own reality as they see fit to bring about their own happiness. Now this does not mean I can say,"I am the President of the United States of America" and it be true. Although, if it where my goal to do such I know I could work (most likely many long years) my way toward making that happen. It by no mean would be easy but possible none the less. This is the complex simplicity of life.
O.K. I have rambled on enough and I assume there will be many difference of opinion on my ideas I have spoke about here. That is fine, in fact I encourage it. May ideas ensue. ;)
-
The human mind is to complex to explain. For those who don't think it's possible need to think twice. They found that the brain works through frequencies, it's how your body works with your brain. If you can tell brain to send a frequency to an object .. you should be able to move it, but if you do not think it's possible then you lack the imagination to do so. They have already done studies on kids where they use a device to read the frequencies of the mind .. and the child tries to move a virtual object .. and it works just fine. So now all that device did was show that it's possible to move objects with your mind ... in RL the same should be possible. A virtual world is just much easier to manipulate.
-
reading some of the articles on that site are pretty interesting.. Do they actually physically see the ball or shield? or is just in their mind? DO you just decide " i wanna do this" and go do it?
the ball is there, but hard to create, it can excist in many contentnts, physically, just energy(which you can feel if it touches you, more about this.) And if you're trained a lot it can be visual yes.
The ball can do certain things after what you create it to do. And it's hard enough to create it allready.
-
My personal opinion: They are speaking BS, a group of people who find their lives boring and unfulfilling who group together to validate each others BS and create a self fullfilling situation where they all BS and know they are and feel much better because they think that the others who talk BS are really experiencing their BS.
And I never thought I would say BS so much in one sentance :oS
-
B-b-b-but I predicted the Colts! Isn't that proof enough? :surrender:
-
\\o// ieee i like this topic
i believe in it. i dunnos if i beleive to the full extent but i suppose anything is possible. i used to read alot about energy manipulation and with enough practice (and those whose minds are sensitive enough to develop the ability) that it could be real.
its sounds a little odd to me, but i havent really been exposed to things like balls and shields.
i didnt read the articles but i wouldnt be surprised ot hear if the aura of an individual would be involved.
-
The mind is a wonderful thing ... capable of generating the most beautiful and most attrocious images.
As for psionics ... I do believe that their foundation is there. It is based on ancient eastern beliefs of energy, meridians and chakras. However like with most modern things they also have a rather substantial western twist to it. In this case probably saturated with fantasy, wishful thinking and TV.
I believe that there are parts of our reality that science ignores/hasn't explained yet and in these parts 'magical' things are possible but I'm also sceptical towards 'fishing stories' on the internet. We still live in a controled reality, not our mind's imagination.
-
My personal opinion: They are speaking BS, a group of people who find their lives boring and unfulfilling who group together to validate each others BS and create a self fullfilling situation where they all BS and know they are and feel much better because they think that the others who talk BS are really experiencing their BS.
And I never thought I would say BS so much in one sentance :oS
Talk about closed minded. Have you ever tried practicing this "BS", or at least researching it a little? I have been practicing psionics for a few years now, and in fact I've been an natural empath ever since I was born. Now are you going to tell me the fact that I can feel the emotions of other people, even if they're 1000 miles away, is BS? Do research before you make such comments.
Psionics is real, I know this for a fact, but you do make rather interesting point which does apply to some "psions". People do trick themselves into believing they have the abilities when in fact they don't. For example in telepathy people will try to find validating excuses for their wrong reading. Like for example you tell someone to think of a picture which you then try to "read", the picture is that of a mountain and you "read" a tree. It's so easy to then so things like "Oh well they're both connected to nature, and there ARE trees an a mountain... ZOMG I'm psychic!!!"
But this doesn't apply to everyone, and I know this because my family and I have had many "paranormal" experiences thoughout our lives. If you're going to tell me that what I experienced as a child, and what I'm experiencing now, is BS then it will only show how closed minded you really are.
EDIT: And about psiballs and shields... they're the bases to all psionic practices. In theory it is possible to make them visible, but I haven't come across anyone who can. It is however possible to create a psi contruct and to feel it.
-
It has nothing at all to do with being closed-minded. People call each other closed-minded when they refuse to believe that aliens landed in their backyard or that they had tea with Bigfoot. It's pseudoscience. No one can come into your head and explain yet, once and for all, what it is exactly that you have been experiencing. People can convince themselves and their children of anything, and feel perfectly normal about it.
However, I'm going to side with people like James Randi on this issue - give me actual proof, or you have nothing :]
(I used to believe in this sort of thing heavily, by the way. My attitude has changed with research and education.)
-
I'm not saying he's closed minded just because he doesn't believe it, but because he hasn't given any reasons why he doesn't believe it which means I can only assume that he hasn't researched the topic, which means his is blind disbelief, which in my opinion is closed minded.
I'm sorry to hear you've changed your mind about it. I couldn't give you proof even if I wanted to, because even if I describe the experiences I've had it still won't be enough to convince you. But I'm glad you've at least researched the topic and based your opinion on that. :)
-
@Eliseth, If some one can give me definitive proof I will gladly change my opinion on the subject. That is all it is, my opinion and it is exactly that kind of reaction that prompted me to make it very clear at the begining of my post. In the same way you are offended by my belief, many religious people would be offended by your belief that you have super-natural powers.
@your latest post, I dont need to research it in the same way I dont need to research that there arent faries living in a tiny village at the bottom of my garden, the way I dont need to research religion and that I dont need to research magic. Its just something that I believe has no grounding in reality.
@Karyuu, thank you, you saved me some typing :o)
-
Okies Idoru, I see where you're coming from, I didn't mean to sound all yukky about it ^^ I believe I am at fault here in calling you closed minded, I apologise for that. The reason I believe psionics exists is actually quite complex and there's no real way of explaining it, so I think at this point we can agree to disagree. There is one or two points I wish to correct though.
@Eliseth, If some one can give me definitive proof I will gladly change my opinion on the subject. That is all it is, my opinion and it is exactly that kind of reaction that prompted me to make it very clear at the begining of my post. In the same way you are offended by my belief, many religious people would be offended by your belief that you have super-natural powers.
I wasn't offended :) I'd be really insecure if I was offended by something like this, everyone is entitled to their beliefs.
your belief that you have super-natural powers.
* my belief that everyone has these natural powers. :) (they're not super-natural. super-natural powers only exist in stories and movies)
-
Hmm, that isn't really what this topic is about. The old argument of 'Proof versus Faith' isn't interesting, because it's all really a matter of personal preference, environment, social background, etc.
The point is; psionics - the hobby - exists, and this is what fascinates me. I'm not going to say that I know beyond all doubt that psionics is 'BS' - I'm not even going to say I think that: in my opinion, until it's proved one way or the other, its potential for either existence or falsity is equal.
But like I said: real or not, that doesn't change the fact that there are people who practice psionics. Quite a lot of people. And it's those that are fascinating...
-
Okies Idoru, I see where you're coming from, I didn't mean to sound all yukky about it ^^ I believe I am at fault here in calling you closed minded, I apologise for that. The reason I believe psionics exists is actually quite complex and there's no real way of explaining it, so I think at this point we can agree to disagree. There is one or two points I wish to correct though.
I wasn't offended :) I'd be really insecure if I was offended by something like this, everyone is entitled to their beliefs.
* my belief that everyone has these natural powers. :) (they're not super-natural. super-natural powers only exist in stories and movies)
Well, thank you kindly for your appology, it is most graciously accepted :o)
As for your belief that everyone has these powers. I sincerely wish I could use them but I do really worry what bad things some people would do in this world if they had any of these (im finding it difficult to think of a term other than super-natural so please forgive me using it again) 'Super-natural' abilities. The world is in a bad enough state with only the 5 senses and our physical abilities.
-
Thanks for the link emeraldfool :thumbup:
I have been using LOA (law of attraction) for over 25 years, even before I knew what it was. I have yet to make it a way of life as I lack the discipline needed to do so. I do firmly believe the ability to manipulate energy is far more common then most realize, people do it on a daily basis without even knowing what they are doing. You know those people that never have anything but good luck, or never get sick, or seem to be able to understand and excel at every topic in school, or the ones that no matter where they go everyone likes them; these people are using LOA and manipulating energy.
Since everything around us is created from energy, one description of it is that everything we see is a hologram that our mind creates for us to understand the energy patterns in front of us. That is Quantum Physics (http://www.law-of-attraction-the-secret.com/quantum_physics_law_of_attraction) in its most basic description. Our minds only create images we understand, one of the most famous accounts of this in reality is from Magellan’s Log,
When Magellan’s crew got into their longboats and neared shore, the natives finally did react, and with even greater terror than had been witnessed elsewhere. When the priests ultimately calmed the natives and learned their language, they realized something extraordinary. These particular natives were so primitive that they didn’t react when the ships came into the bay – because they actually couldn’t physically perceive them! The ships were so far beyond their consciousness that they literally could not see them.
And ColumbusThe term "Hiding in Plain Sight" is used frequently to describe a person or thing that goes unnoticed even when viewed directly. Upon the landing of Christopher Columbus on the Caribbean Island of Hispaniola in 1492 he reported that curiously the natives could not see the Nina, the Pinta and the Santa Maria. These vessels apparently were to strange to the brains of the primitive inhabitants to even realize their existence. it wasn't until the tribal elders studied disturbances in the water that they were ultimately able to grasp the presence of the ships.
Without a perception of an item we cannot see it, I know some are going to say this is BS, when a child sees something for the first time they have no knowledge of it, but can still see it. This point brings in another area of understanding; When the tribe leader finally understood and saw the Magellan ships, the idea of the ship was now in his consciousness, and that consciousness was now shared by the rest of the tribe. The consciousness can be described as the 'Ether', an energy field that is all around us that is said to hold all thought. So a child shares the parents’ energy and in doing so is able to comprehend new images that its parents have already experienced.
Ether or Aether;
Humans - and everything that has 'life' - has an etheric body which looks identical to the physical body but functions at a higher frequency. In fact, it is at the same frequency as the ether. Could this be where it derives its name? Scientists know that we are electromagnetic in origin. Most advanced medical tests assess electrical impulses in the brain and elsewhere in the body to find areas of activity or lack of it that may be causing a problem. Our thoughts register activity in the brain. This activity can be seen with modern medical equipment but not the 'thought' itself. The thought operates at an even higher frequency but it is quite real. The thought registers in the ether.
The Aether is responsible for all that is, or more specifically, Aether responds to thought, essentially forming real aetheric objects from impinging thought. This process can be dramatically amplified by coupling thought with emotional energy. It is benign in and of itself - this process - it is WE who give it form - either positive or negative (good or evil).
Thought creates Reality (http://www.newagestuff.com/cms/readarticle.php?article_id=22)
Getting into this creates a domino effect, as there are so many different areas based on the Aether. All popular forms of meditations ultimate goal is to enter the Aether, and become one with it and channel the energy it holds. All energy healing techniques draw from the Aether energy and channel it to the area in the body that is not in tune with it.
I have become very interested in Quantum Healing and have had some amazing results with friends and family. I have realigned fused vertebrae that doctors and chiropractors could not without surgery, I have been able to bring my blood back to a normal level so I no longer need blood thinners, and have eliminated blood clots in my lungs and legs.
Some still think all this stuff is BS and that is their right, but I know for a fact all of this is real.
This gives me a new area to investigate and learn from.
I wish you all great success in all that you desire :)
Laragorn
-
Thanks LARAGORN, very useful info. I was going to make referances to quantum physics in my earlier post, but most people tend to shun such referances, so I've stopped doing it. A very interesting documentary you all should watch is "What the Bleep do We Know" http://www.whatthebleep.com/
It's incredibly eye opening if you're willing to accept that quantum physics may be true.
-
Thanks Eliseth :)
Watching it (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8655881191636417153&q=What+The+Bleep++Do+We+Know) right now. :D
-
Hmm I must of got confused with somthing else on my first post. Now that I understand it better and looked at it more I doubt it's possible. Of course im not just another nobody with an oppinion ... im basing this off of science, since I did get in the 92 percentile on a science test in all of Florida. It may be possible with a device but sadley a human body could not possibly form energy outside of there body in any shape or form. Now that is not saying that a human mind can not gather data from another human simply by looking at them though. This combined with the imagination can lead you to beleive your sending info or gathering info via a ball of energy. Which is why in no recorded history really has anyone saw it, and if somone does say they did then they would be lieing. It can not be just the average joe who says they saw it .. it would have to be a science group who study it and can show proof of it.
Also when you beleive you can do somthing it's only a natural thing that your mind makes you think you saw it. This is aother example of ghosts, your in a house that is spooky and you keep thinking about ghosts or other things, it's only natural to think you saw somthing because it's the only thing your thinking about and your looking for it.
I hope this makes sense .. I try not to use scientific words when talking to people about science and try to just explain it.
Edit: Also Laragorn is wrong. Quantum Physics is Physics just on a smaller scale, when this scale gets as small as atoms they find physics are not the same as say what we already know of physics. Here try this site, http://www.jracademy.com/~jtucek/science/what.html ... much more reliable info.
-
Don't worry tssthorn, it makes sense. However are you willing to accept Quantum Physics as being a valid scientific theory, even if you don't believe the theory to be correct? Because quantum physics makes psionics very much possible. This means that there IS a possibility that psionics isn't a load of BS and it actually exists and is scientifically possible.
I agree the current "accepted" laws of science makes psionics seem impossible, but it's possible that these laws of science are actually inaccurate.
Even if you don't believe the quantum physics theory, you should watch "what the bleep" anyway for interests sake.
-
Check the link I edited my post. I know what Quantum Physics is. Yes it has to do with energy but not the type of energy you all are talking about.
Edit: Ok an even more in depth reading of Quantum Physics Law of Attraction, I find that who ever wrote it must be in some type of alterenate reality where quantum physics all of a sudden tunred into somthing your mind can minipulate. If this was even true only you and you alone would be able to see what you are seeing .. it would change nothing in the world but what you see. Let me think .. what is another name for that ... I can't think of it ... hmmm ... oh right hulucinating. Let me just put it this way .. if you where to show this to Einstein, he would laugh.
-
It may be possible with a device but sadly a human body could not possibly form energy outside of their body in any shape or form. Now that is not saying that a human mind can not gather data from another human simply by looking at them though. This combined with the imagination can lead you to believe your sending info or gathering info via a ball of energy. Which is why in no recorded history really has anyone saw it, and if someone does say they did then they would be lying. It can not be just the average joe who says they saw it .. it would have to be a science group who study it and can show proof of it.
I would disagree. You see child birth can be perceived as just that. Creating energy first from within (with a mixture of two energies; male and female) then expelling it into the world. Thusly sending the parents co-mingled genetic information into the world in the form of manipulated energies from the two to form a child. Although, I see the particular point your getting at about the psi-ball thing. Sometimes it's all in how people perceive things.
So, two people standing across from each other and another person passes between them. Now both people seen this third person pass by but may have differences in what they say they saw. Given only from what they see; assumptions can be made of that person. Of course there may be some correspondences in that which they saw but it is only one side of the person seen from each perspective. Perhaps, what they saw in trueness is nothing of what the person is at all but a shell or mask of the true person put on for people to see. The human mind is an interesting and complex thing to behold and master and/or rather the attempt there of.
-
Yes but that is completly different from what im talking about, everyone sees things differently or most do. Cahnging what you see has absolutly no effect on others but yourself, thats my point.
Also that whole baby thing ... I see what you mean but thats again not the type of energy there talking about lol.
-
tssthorn, the link you gave explains very basic quantum physics, there is seriously way more to it than that. Did you watch "what the bleep do we know"?
Anyway, here's a link you may find interesting.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/405/Journey-34-Psionics
-
Could you please tell us what Quantum Physics has to do with this topic at all? Im at a loss to grasp what you are getting at when bringing it up. Unfortunatly im not at work today so cant watch the vids.
As tssthorn said. Quantum physics is 'purely' the physics of very small things.
[EDIT] Some quotes I find remarkably laughable.
After all, the best science in Psychical Research is the lifetime of work by Professor Ian Stevenson, who conclusively establishes the reality of reincarnation. Obviously, that which reincarnates is not any part of the body.
This definition immediately suggests that the mind is made of dark matter, since dark matter has mass, and no interactions via the Electro-Magnetic (EM) force. That is why the mind is invisible, intangible and can freely move through solid objects.
What the hell?? The Mind (soul or whatever word you want to use) is made of Dark Matter??
The root idea of quantum mechanics is de Broglie's wave, and the root idea of general relativity is geodesics.
The mind can generate physical force by effortlessly twisting or bending the geodesics of space-time. The sleep-dynamo does this every night in sleep. Every dynamo or generator requires a resistant force to convert kinetic energy into another form such as nouonic energy (also known as Prana). This resistant force is a rhythmic distortion of the space-time geodesics in sync with the slow labored breathing of non-REM sleep, where the diaphragm and abdomen are pushing against this resistant force.
These quotes make me wonder if even pseudo-science is too kind a term. It seems to lack any basis in reality at all.
-
this thread has become interesting. I am on the psionics side, and I have quite some experiences concerning this topic.
I'm going to tell about one I had yesterday. I just got a new person on my msn from a community site because I wrote in my profile I was a natural empath (like Eliseth.)
Now, I only had pictures of myself in my profile, and she knew nothing about any of my x'es. Or actually anything at all besides what I've written in my profile.
She told about a special power to know where people forgot their stuff. I wanted to test her. So I asked her where I forgot my eyeliner. It could basically be anywhere, I told her. I was scanning her at the same time. Couldn't really feel any psychic activity at her first two guesses as they were just "guesses." Then I piped her up by saying she could do it and such things.
Then she asked me if I had recently seen a girl with blond hair, it was quite long, a bit longer than the shoulders. And I said yes, it was my x.
This is just one of many. If you can give me a scientific explanation whatsoever to the above, try me. I'll prove you wrong.
-
Hmm I must of got confused with somthing else on my first post. Now that I understand it better and looked at it more I doubt it's possible. Of course im not just another nobody with an oppinion ... im basing this off of science, since I did get in the 92 percentile on a science test in all of Florida. It may be possible with a device but sadley a human body could not possibly form energy outside of there body in any shape or form.
If we really want to get sciency here I'll chip in.
*hits the buzzer*
Human bodies generate heat, have an electromagnetic field surrounding them and emit waves. Oh and then there are these other little bits like pheromones and who know what other molecules or energy types we just spread around.
The first one is, I hope, obvious without elaboration.
The second one is generally called a biomagnetic field. You want science .. lookhere. (http://www.opticsinfobase.org/abstract.cfm?URI=oe-11-8-904)
The third is for example brainwave emission. Oh look another article. (http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT3875930&id=RSEsAAAAEBAJ&dq=human+brainwave&jtp=1)
Now people if you really want to argue science, I'll be happy to throw actual scientific articles at you until you weep, not those pseudoscientific writings that consists of nothing but homemade theories. Believing in science is good, very good even .. I am a scientist. Believing that science is the only ultimate judge over what exists and what does not exist is narrowminded, believing everything that science dictates to be completely accurate is simply foolish. Science develops as we learn more, it is very far away from forming a complete picture on the human body, the nature of interaction between individuals on a subphysical level or even the nature of reality on a subphysical level. I know a whole lot about the first, not so much about the latter two but as a scientist I do not believe that just because science has not explained it, it cannot exist. I am a sane, down-to-earth person and I believe in the things that I have experienced even if I don't exactly know how they work. I just know they work.
P.S.: Not saying I believe in all that is grouped together under psionics, only some of it's foundations I can confirm. The rest is plausible until proven to exist.
-
Im going to just give up and bow out of this thread. Its geting to the point where it seems like a religious debate. Some people have faith in it and some people dont.
-
Im going to just give up and bow out of this thread. Its geting to the point where it seems like a religious debate. Some people have faith in it and some people dont.
Idoru's right - like I said, there is no definitive 'proof' one way or the other. It's a matter of faith, or lack there of.
There are plenty of explanations for things like these, such as Mass Hallucination Phenomenon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hallucination) or Non-Actuated Hallucinations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinations_in_the_sane). The thing is, a lot of the theories refuting things like Psionics, were built around refuting them (i.e. they saw a bunch of people talking about it, and then came up with Mass Hallucination as an explanation, instead of it being a pre-established occurrence)
Like Zan was getting at, that's how science works: you take the unexplainable, and attempt to explain it in a way that's universal and consistent. Once you reach a consistency, you call it 'proof'. Whereas in reality, your explanation is as good as any. At the root of it all, science is exactly the same as religion - words and concepts. The difference is simply which you believe in and which you do not.
-
One thing we need to keep in mind is that even if there is proof, it may not make it to the masses and become widley known. I am sure most here have heard of information being witheld from the public on health issues and war and political crap, well science is the same. If new discoveries or proof is found that changes the accepted method and ideas of modern science, a lot of things would change and a lot of people would be out of work and branded fools. One such example is John Bell, the creator of the 'Bell Theorum', he sucsesfully did experiments prooving that it is possible to move faster than the speed of light in 1964. He also established that reality is non-local reafirming the Copenhagen Interpretation. In 1984 a team led by Alain Aspect in Paris conducted an experiment that could measure if a given elementary particle could "communicate" with another elementary particle farther away faster than any light could have traveled between them, exactly as Bell did and indeed, this was undeniably the apparent result.
There are lots of things that are being kept from the public as far as the subjects of physics and consciousness are concerned . . . Bell’s Theorem was proved in 1964, and it is still not taught in physics classes, and you don’t hear it on your science news programs. A theorem is a proof, and no one’s found a flaw in this theorem. It’s such a simple proof that a high school kid can understand it . . . so physicists can understand it. They have various ways of trying to ignore it, but it can’t be refuted because it’s so simple. A non local interaction links up one location with another without crossing space, without decay, and without delay. A non local interaction is, in short, unmediated, unmitigated, and immediate.
There is nothing absolute, there are no real facts, there is only our understandings of what we have discoverd thus far. Our knowledge is only held back by our belief system. I believe nothing is impossible, we just havent figured out how to do it yet.
I dont want to hijack this thread, so look for one later today on 'Facts and Laws of our understanding'
Be well and think well :)
Laragorn
-
I am going to take a look at the video, it's so strange but this always happends to me .. I talk about somthing and I end up hearing it everywhere there after. At work somone mentioned that video that is posted here. It's also the same with words .. I learn a new word and my family and the peope I am around all of a sudden start using that word even though they never have before. When somthing like this happends I always have to look into it more.
-
tssthorn: Same thing happens with me all the time :] It's kinda fun.
-
I am going to take a look at the video, it's so strange but this always happends to me .. I talk about somthing and I end up hearing it everywhere there after. At work somone mentioned that video that is posted here. It's also the same with words .. I learn a new word and my family and the peope I am around all of a sudden start using that word even though they never have before. When somthing like this happends I always have to look into it more.
That's actually very common. I forget the word for it, but basically your brain tends to block out small things that it doesn't understand. You're actually hearing and seeing these things all the time, you're just not aware of it because you forget about it almost instantaneously. But once you do understand it, your brain registers these things, so it appears that suddenly everyone's talking about it, whereas really it's just you that finally gets what everyone's talking about.
They say that only about 10% of what we experience is actually stored in our memory - the rest is as if it never happened.
-
I watched the video actually, it is definitely interesting but it does not have anything to do with psionics, if someone may please elaborate for me what it has to do with it .. I will listen. From what I understand is that we see what we want to see and what we know. I already knew this in some sense but learned a lot more about it. The only thing i can see how these to are related is it just makes it possible but does not mean it is, basically there is no proof to it still. Now could you walk on water if you believed you could? I am not sure .. tell that to the people who believed they could fly and plummeted to the ground. Though the ones who tried that where not sane, so I guess it doesn't count so I will be a bit more open minded. How ever I will admit the video made a lot of sense.
I am going to try to give some of you a basic understanding of what this video is telling us.
Go outside ... look around, now think about all the times you have gone outside where you stand, have you ever actually stood there to notice everything. Look harder.
I guarantee you will see something you did not know was there. Such as when you go outside you have a wide vision of everything you see yet you only notice what you want to see, what about the sky that is in your vision, what about the trees, the grass, the animals, the buildings, the ground, the lights ... do you notice all these things at the specific moment you look outside ..... no, you have to think about it to notice it.
Here is another example .... you have a hat, you put it on your head. Later that day your looking for your hat and cannot find it ... you walk into the bathroom looking for your hat ...it's not there .. you continue looking and can't find it anywhere when you finally realize it is on your head already. Now what you don't realize is when you walked into the bathroom you had a clear view of the mirror yet you are not going to look in a mirror for a hat now are you .. so even though you saw it you didn't because that's not where your mind is focused at.
The other part of it is talking about real quantum physics, I can't explain it exactly, much to hard. That's where I suggest you watch the video. Cause from what i gathered there is that pretty much everything you think is real exists .. anything you think is possible is possible .. like if you truly believe you can walk on water you can. In this case if I completely understood it then I would say psionics is 90% possible, but I am not going to include this in there as I need it to be explained more and even though I'm into science this is where it goes beyond my comprehension.
Hope that makes sense, so you may not think psionics are real .... but how can you be sure if you mind can not comprehend it so you do not see it. So what this shows is that it is possible, but when you include all other science as well as this one it also denies the possibility of this. So either science is wrong, or current theories which happens a lot and we just do not understand it all or it just does not exist. In other words psionics has a 90% chance that it's not real but a 10% chance that it is.
How did I get these results, well it's very simple, the only proof we have even with quantum physics of psionics is that people say they can do it which I would give it 10% chance.
Now I did say I am a BIT more open minded about it, and yes I am because with out this theory on quantum physics I had a 0% chance of believing it.
The last thing is the part at which I did not understand, tihs is like one of those theorys that cannot be recorded as of yet.
*edit*
I am going to take a look at the video, it's so strange but this always happends to me .. I talk about somthing and I end up hearing it everywhere there after. At work somone mentioned that video that is posted here. It's also the same with words .. I learn a new word and my family and the peope I am around all of a sudden start using that word even though they never have before. When somthing like this happends I always have to look into it more.
That's actually very common. I forget the word for it, but basically your brain tends to block out small things that it doesn't understand. You're actually hearing and seeing these things all the time, you're just not aware of it because you forget about it almost instantaneously. But once you do understand it, your brain registers these things, so it appears that suddenly everyone's talking about it, whereas really it's just you that finally gets what everyone's talking about.
They say that only about 10% of what we experience is actually stored in our memory - the rest is as if it never happened.
Sorry for the double post ahead of time. Yes this is exactly what is described in the video pretty much, the words may be used everyday, but since you do not have a understanding of the word you just do not hear it. If that is the case with hearing .. then I would say the same goes with all senses. Which makes the video very plausible .. well some parts at least.
[ Don't apologize for a double-post: just don't make one. Please "Modify" your first post to add more information next time :> --Karyuu ]
-
Anyone can be a psionic? I thought that only very few people supposedly had skills like ESP, Telekinesis and such.
Now going on sci-fi: A possible way to achieve a capability similar to these supposedly existing psionics, in the distant future, would be the use of some kind of wireless Mind-machine interface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-machine_interface) and of Nanotechnology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotech) to create nanobots that would be activated through mind input sent through the interface to them, realizing the commands a man mentally inputs to these tiny machines, and transmitting messages between different minds among other things.
-
@lordraleigh: Yes, everyone can be a psion, some just are more naturally "open" to it.
@tssthorn: What has it got to do with psionics? Well you've answered it yourself. Quantum Physics makes psionics plausible, it means we have a lot more control over the energy around us than most people realise. The only way that you will be able to prove it's existance is if you personally go out and try to learn these abilities. There is one problem however, the fact that you doubt it's possible will already dampen your abilities. If you go to any psion and ask what their secret is, somewhere along the line they will say that they've gotten rid of the doubt. This is one of the reasons psionics is so difficult for some people. In order to believe in it they would like to do it themselves but because they don't believe in it they can't.
One thing I can say is that there are definite bonuses to practicing psionics. As you go further into the theory and practice of psionics, your mind-set starts to change. People who were once very materialistic and "money wise" become less materialistic and more spiritual. You learn a lot about your own emotions and thoughts and those of the people around you, and you learn to be happy no matter what your circumstaces are.
One more thing, I watched a documentary the other day on near death experiences and I can tell you that some of those cases have yet to be scientifically explained. People who are clinically dead, in a state where it's literally impossible to sense anything, come back to life and recall the most amazing experiences. Some are even able to tell in great detail what the doctors were saying while they were "dead". My mother was in fact had a near death experience before I was born, and she told me how she looked down at her body and listened to what the doctors were saying.
Anyway, I've started rambling now. When it comes to psionics, you either believe it or you don't.
-
Anyway, I've started rambling now. When it comes to psionics, you either believe it or you don't.
true, although people are more inclined to believe it when they tried it, or have felt it on themselves. Although, it depends on what you're going to use this for which determines how far you'll get. Bragging, making you tihnk yourslef better than others, hurting others or the liking will get you no where if that's your intention. Doing it to cross the boundaries of reaility or to find ways making people happy/helping them in any way will make you progress easier.
why? This has something to do with your subconciousness.
About my last post, still don't see anything to counter it, guess this means psionics excist :p
-
Anyway, I've started rambling now. When it comes to psionics, you either believe it or you don't.
true, although people are more inclined to believe it when they tried it, or have felt it on themselves. Although, it depends on what you're going to use this for which determines how far you'll get. Bragging, making you tihnk yourslef better than others, hurting others or the liking will get you no where if that's your intention. Doing it to cross the boundaries of reaility or to find ways making people happy/helping them in any way will make you progress easier.
why? This has something to do with your subconciousness.
About my last post, still don't see anything to counter it, guess this means psionics excist :p
I don't think this is entirely true peace. In my experience your intention can be either good or bad, it doesn't make a difference. Bragging might hamper your progress yes, but it's more the consiquences of bragging rather than the bragging itself. Practicing psionics to help others will certainly make the experience for fulfilling yes, but it won't really help you progress faster. Although I have noted that people doing it for good often have more patience and determination to practice often, and therfore progress easier. Many people, especially young teenagers, start practicing psionics because it's a cool thing to be able to do, it will impress their friends, they'll be uber ninja psychic hackers :P Those types of people rarely progress at all because they expect immediate results and generally loose interest quite quickly.
And about your previous post, it may or may not be psionics, it could just be coincedence. So it proves nothing :) sorry.
-
She told about a special power to know where people forgot their stuff. I wanted to test her. So I asked her where I forgot my eyeliner. It could basically be anywhere, I told her. I was scanning her at the same time. Couldn't really feel any psychic activity at her first two guesses as they were just "guesses." Then I piped her up by saying she could do it and such things.
Then she asked me if I had recently seen a girl with blond hair, it was quite long, a bit longer than the shoulders. And I said yes, it was my x.
This is just one of many. If you can give me a scientific explanation whatsoever to the above, try me. I'll prove you wrong.
You didnt mention if you found the item ? It is perfectly plausable she does have the ability, but...there are many frauds out there who are just very good observers and can read people by tone of voice body language and asking the right questions and giving an answer the target is looking for.
Just like any other area of life, there are posers, so dont give her any tria ;)
I am going to take a look at the video, it's so strange but this always happends to me .. I talk about somthing and I end up hearing it everywhere there after. At work somone mentioned that video that is posted here. It's also the same with words .. I learn a new word and my family and the peope I am around all of a sudden start using that word even though they never have before. When somthing like this happends I always have to look into it more.
That's actually very common. I forget the word for it, but basically your brain tends to block out small things that it doesn't understand. You're actually hearing and seeing these things all the time, you're just not aware of it because you forget about it almost instantaneously. But once you do understand it, your brain registers these things, so it appears that suddenly everyone's talking about it, whereas really it's just you that finally gets what everyone's talking about.
They say that only about 10% of what we experience is actually stored in our memory - the rest is as if it never happened.
Sorry for the double post ahead of time. Yes this is exactly what is described in the video pretty much, the words may be used everyday, but since you do not have a understanding of the word you just do not hear it. If that is the case with hearing .. then I would say the same goes with all senses. Which makes the video very plausible .. well some parts at least.
[ Don't apologize for a double-post: just don't make one. Please "Modify" your first post to add more information next time :> --Karyuu ]
This is LOA, when you have that word or image in your thoughts you are projecting it, and that is what you will recieve. This is applicable to everything in life, emotion, health, knowledge, communication, money and everything else. The power of thought is only limited by our willingness to accept what is real and what we believe we deserve.
Most people have a very damaging way of thinking, they concentrate on all the things that are wrong in their lives, which only creates more of the same. We see this all the time and we all know people who do this, the man or woman that always seems to be in an abusive relationship, the person who always fails tests, the people who make a decent wage but are always in debt. I will use the people in debt to try and explain what I mean. The main thought these people have is 'Bills', they keep thinking 'I wish I wasnt in debt', 'why do I have so many bills', I wish I didnt owe so much money', ' why cant I make more money' you get the idea. This way of thinking only creates more debt and makes things much worse.
The LOA dosent care if you want good things or bad things, it just gives you what you want. I bet you are thinking that 'these people dont want to be in debt', but it is exactly what they are asking for. They cannot use negatives in their thought, because it only brings negatives. If they were to change the way they think about money, their situation would change. Thinking about how happy they feel when they get money, saying things like 'I am so greatfull I am recieving so much money', 'I have more money than I could ever need', 'Money making ideas come to me every day' do you see what I mean? Instead of concentrating on debt, bills and no money, they must think about wealth, income and oppertunity.
The old saying 'You get what you give' is absolutly true in every aspect of our lives, it just comes down to the individual and what they want to get. We really can have anything we want, there are no limits. If you change the way you think, you will change you life forever.
-
She told about a special power to know where people forgot their stuff. I wanted to test her. So I asked her where I forgot my eyeliner. It could basically be anywhere, I told her. I was scanning her at the same time. Couldn't really feel any psychic activity at her first two guesses as they were just "guesses." Then I piped her up by saying she could do it and such things.
Then she asked me if I had recently seen a girl with blond hair, it was quite long, a bit longer than the shoulders. And I said yes, it was my x.
This is just one of many. If you can give me a scientific explanation whatsoever to the above, try me. I'll prove you wrong.
You didnt mention if you found the item ? It is perfectly plausable she does have the ability, but...there are many frauds out there who are just very good observers and can read people by tone of voice body language and asking the right questions and giving an answer the target is looking for.
Just like any other area of life, there are posers, so dont give her any tria ;)
I knew she had it, and I forgot it at her place, that's why I chosed my eyeliner XD.
@Eliseth, I was scanning her and first after the second try I felt some acitivity, and it would have been quite a coincidence then as it could have been everywhere.
-
What are your thoughts?
I'll believe it when I see it.
Actually no, that's a lie. If I see it, I'll suspect myself of having acute schizophrenia.
-
Anyway, I've started rambling now. When it comes to psionics, you either believe it or you don't.
true, although people are more inclined to believe it when they tried it, or have felt it on themselves. Although, it depends on what you're going to use this for which determines how far you'll get. Bragging, making you tihnk yourslef better than others, hurting others or the liking will get you no where if that's your intention. Doing it to cross the boundaries of reaility or to find ways making people happy/helping them in any way will make you progress easier.
why? This has something to do with your subconciousness.
About my last post, still don't see anything to counter it, guess this means psionics excist :p
If a person believes they have magic powers, then there's little that will convince him he's wrong. It's just the nature of delusion. All it takes is a few coincidences, or a few successes among countless failures, and it gives the delusional party enough "evidence" to support the delusion.
It's completely irrational, but it's all too common.
-
I agree Zanzibar. For tho-se who have watched the US TV series Friends, it makes me think of Phoebe in one episode sat thinking she is turning the TV on and off by blinking ;)
-
I agree Zanzibar. For tho-se who have watched the US TV series Friends, it makes me think of Phoebe in one episode sat thinking she is turning the TV on and off by blinking ;)
I don't like the show, but Phoebe's character is awesome. I like to think of her persona as an act. When she's being crazy, she's doing it just to mess with people or to see how they react. Like the time when she was teaching Joey how to play guitar. She knew she couldn't really teach him but she went along with it anyway. And then when he started learning stuff on his own, she freaked out on him just to mess with him. It all makes sense if you look at it that way.
When a person actually thinks they have magic powers though, I consider it reason to avoid that person.
-
well, I'm not sure if this pefectly fits this issue, but I had two things happening to me that maybe can be compared to be somekind of Psio- Thing.
I was once driving my car along a track I was driving ybout 3 to 4 times a week and where I was always pretty speeding. Its a street through a forest where you only sometimes meet other cars and you can really drive fast there. (120 - 140 km/h)
That day I drove along there and listened to the music of my radio and thought "don't hurry, you got time enough" - I this day only speeded 80 to 90 km/h.
Coming around a corner and there were 6 deers on the street and I could hardly manage to stop without hitting one of them.
If I'd driven as usual ... I think one of the deers and maybe me would have been dead. - I thought about somekind of Intuiton about this ... Anyway it saved me.
The second case is quite similar to this.
My daily track to work. Its most time up the hills, down the hills and there is one hilltop that I usually pass with about 100 km/h.
One day driving up the hill, I thought "have you ever thought that there could be something dangerous behind this top that you wouldn't see soon enough to avoid hitting it or even brake" - I went down with my speed and crossed with about 60 km/h .. when I saw that there were 5 crates of mineral water laying spreaded across the street. - I could manage to brake and avoid hitting them.
But if I had crossed with my "usual" speed ... OMG
Well, as I said I'm not sure if that fits, but I sometimes think, there's a small guy sitting on my shoulder "warning" me if there is any danger.
you will excuse my english, do you ?
-
If a person believes they have magic powers, then there's little that will convince him he's wrong. It's just the nature of delusion. All it takes is a few coincidences, or a few successes among countless failures, and it gives the delusional party enough "evidence" to support the delusion.
It's completely irrational, but it's all too common.
I think that post applies to your situation Fozzharn ;)
And if you keep speeding you will soon discover that your abilities, (to drive, 'use psionics' and also breathe) will be heavily impeeded. :) Speeding is naughty :P
-
I know, I know ... speeding is naughty ... sure. :ban:
And don't believe that I would trust this "guy on my shoulder" ... I still look and think while driving ....