PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rennaj on March 26, 2007, 12:23:10 am
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Is this expectable to all.
Player 1. Getting boring just killing NPCs, I know I will get a rogue to follow me to the crafting area at Oja. right found one, end of warehouse district, by door to rats in warehouse.
GMs will have a fit when the wimpy crafters get killed by it, I do not care, not my fault the dumb rogue followed me, not my fault the dumb crafters were in there. Also they could run for it. What a hoot silly fools try to fight back. REALY great role play.
GM. she is right nothing we can do if the rogue followed her all innocent like going round corners , down ramps round tavern and into shop and up the stairs.
Crafter, after 2 maybe 3 trips to mines, to get ores. hours at least digging, then screen full of furnace or forge, and inventory, concentrating on task at hand, out of blue bamm a rogue attacks, no time to defend themselves, dead, by time they return to crafting area, all there hard work gone, Feels like going mental, does a petition, not a word said to them, even thought online for most of day.
Player one has done no wrong?
Crafters Role Play at being a crafter is interfered with ?
Comments please.
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Rogues don't enter buildings unless they are being dragged, they tend to get caught on odd protrusions such as doorways. Weaponsmiths who don't know how to use weapons are unlikely to make good weapons.
Player 1 is not innocent and intentionally being a griefer as per the setup. I sure don't know how a rogue got into Trasoks and up the stairs innocently. I see a lot of rogues jammed against his wall just outside the door but never inside. I've seen rogues in Brado's, that is not hard to believe might be an accident.
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I think there is nothing to complain about.
Be it NPC or player who entered a smith to kill and rob, it doesn't matter. This should be possible. Of course the game is completly undeveloped in this area, so what happened may be hardly the described situation. But even if weak imitation, there isn't much wrong in it. Also please note there is no difference beetwen us and NPCs and us from IC PoV and this situation can be certainly assigned as IC (unless people like to see OOC instead of IC while they can).
Tell the crafters to hire a guard.
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I dont think it unreasonable, RP wise, for a rogue to stalk someone, then when finding a bunch of unarmed, rich crafters, think it a good idea to attack them and try to make some easy money?
Currently the mechanics of the game dont support such things, but it is reasonable to expect that at some point in the (distant) future they might do.
I do understand that it must have been most irritating for the players in question to lose the hard work that they had put in over the last hour or so. But thats realism, bad stuff happens in RL.
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I dont think it unreasonable, RP wise, for a rogue to stalk someone, then when finding a bunch of unarmed, rich crafters, think it a good idea to attack them and try to make some easy money?
While the guards stand like if they were mindless drones?
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I dont often visit Oja, but I never recall seeing a guard there. And if there happens to be some that I have missed, how is it that there are rogues in the town at all?
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Why would Trasok allow his customers to be slaughtered? Why would he allow rogues to invade hi shop, I am certain HE has a modicum of weapons training himself and is likely to have much more physical strength than your average rogue. This is no different than dragging an ulbernaut into town and logging off. That is discouraged as far as I remember.
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I agree with Bilbous, Realisticly the only way a rogue could attack crafters in Trasoks, is if they killed Trasok himself. He would never allow anything to harm his customers. I think it is a dishonerable act, and the individual responsible should be charged with murder.
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I agree with Bilbous, Realisticly the only way a rogue could attack crafters in Trasoks, is if they killed Trasok himself. He would never allow anything to harm his customers. I think it is a dishonerable act, and the individual responsible should be charged with murder.
It's weird that polluting the waters of Yliakum warrants you a death penalty while most crimes doesn't do it according to what is mentioned in the Settings. I guess that chopping off trees meets capital punishment as well. Punishing with death an environmental crime gives me the impression most if not all government members are ultra-hardcore environmentalist hippies. :P
It would be logical though to have perpetual sentence or capital punishment for murder if that is not the case. But from the number of rogues around(perhaps OOC), either Yliakum has a very bad HDI with many poor people who become pickpockets to survive and then move in the criminal world, or jailbreaks are ridiculously common due to hastily done prisons.
And perhaps once things become more developed. There could be mafias charging "protection" from merchants or other forms of ordering your grunts to not rob a certain shop in exchange for money from the shopkeepers. Also I don't agree with the way Ojaveda is now, it seems almost like Fallout 2's New Reno(Except for the absence of clearly seen drug dealing or prostitution, otherwise both are cities bustling with criminals, something that may contradict the apparently "stable" way Settings supposedly are)
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However, nothing is ever thrown into the lake. The law forbids this disposal method not only out of courtesy to the Nolthrirs, but also to protect the seaweed population.
Contaminating a food supply sounds a serious enough offense to warrant death. Considering that the Nolthrir diet consists entirely of seafood and nothing but, polluting a water system would have dire consequences.
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Here's a question: Why are there so many rogues and rats in the enkidukai town? Can't the town guards, or even shopkeepers, clear them out of there? I mean, it's a town, why are there so many intrusions? Why not have rogues and crap in Hydlaa, or at least have the rats pushed down into some sort of sewer in oja?
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IRL, big corporations that emmit large amounts of pollution in a region threaten the health of their inhabitants. Pollution threatens the supply of drinking water in the whole world, yet I don't know of any legislation that punishes CEOs of these polluting industries bypassing environmental regulations with death, and these things threaten human life as a whole and may lead to our own extinction in the future. Thus I see only one possibility(I don't think people cared about not polluting rivers and water bodies in Middle Ages, more a point of difference):
The government in Yliakum has a great deal of preocupation with the natural environment, as the long term consequences of reckless expansion of economy are considered, to the point of punishing with death those who pollute the waters. Basically a somewhat "green" model.
The fact humans don't live undewater may explain why many don't care about it though, as they "forget" or don't know where the water they need to drink comes from. Still this law seems too harsh on a otherwise apparently not so harsh justice system. Of course if the "few crimes punishable by death" are all the heinous ones (murder, etc.), then it makes more sense.
And about Ojaveda: :beta:
I am pretty sure they are there just for being killed so characters will "level"(Although I find it weird for a game focused on roleplay, and the same goes with the Arena for me - an IC excuse for grinding mobs instead of a place where real duels and tournaments are hosted)
So it's untrue that rogues kill every crafter in sight with impunity, among other things just because there aren't proper systems to deal with such problems. And the first post really sums it all about this thing:
REALY great role play.
I think it would be better to disable rogues following people around without any reason to avoid such OOC incidents. And it may be a bug on the "AI" that currently exists in game as well.
Here's a question: Why are there so many rogues and rats in the enkidukai town? Can't the town guards, or even shopkeepers, clear them out of there? I mean, it's a town, why are there so many intrusions? Why not have rogues and crap in Hydlaa, or at least have the rats pushed down into some sort of sewer in oja?
As I said before I think it is for an OOC reason mostly: Levelling
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Were these people actually active at the time.. or just kinda playing PS in the background for the sake of powerlevelling (asleep at the furnace effectively!)??
If it's the latter... I'd say it's tough luck that they weren't paying attention and only partly roleplaying their character.
If it's the former... I'm surprised they didn't notice a rogue walking in to the room.
I guess I've just learned to watch my back or pay the consequences... (in which case I usually laugh at seeing I've ended up in DR even though I thought I was somewhere safe.)
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If you want to make buildings literally safe zones... maybe the doorways should not be passable by mobs period?!
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blibous, LARAGORN. You say Trasok would protect would protect people inside. Who said he didn't get killed? The game is UNDEVELOPED there as i said already.
Trasok can't be killed.
Player can't kill ones he should.
Rogues can't do it on their own.
NPC guards won't stop it
and more.
Lets be happy with what we have. The few game features, which wa have are to be use, not denied, because its a game where you do RP. It is not a MMOG where you have to do it if you wan't to RP (what is pointless anyway).
The lazy crafters were at fault. Why the heck they didn't run away?
lordraleigh. There are people in the lake at the bottom of Yliakum! They can be easly poisoned by poisoning the water and die or sick for a longer while.
Ad if you ask me, it's damn good if goverment are envirmentalists ;D
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@Rennaj: The appropriate thing to do would be to bring it up at the next GM meeting.
Personally, I think that if you don't watch your back in a city infested by rogues and rats, it's your own fault if you get killed. There aren't any guards in Akkaio.
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So is whoever dragged the rogues into Trasok's now featured prominently on wanted posters or do they blithely still deal with Trasok and brazenly still walk around town? If you want to consider this good RP then accept the consequences. You have become a rogue just like your buddies who did your dirty work.
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So is whoever dragged the rogues into Trasok's now featured prominently on wanted posters or do they blithely still deal with Trasok and brazenly still walk around town? If you want to consider this good RP then accept the consequences. You have become a rogue just like your buddies who did your dirty work.
I've led Ulbernauts, Rogues etc into various populated areas round Yliakum many times and never seen any consequences for my actions. You make a good point though it would make it good RP. Would the person who did it want that though (RP wise not IC) or were they just being silly.
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Hoping not to incur the wrath of the moderator, I point out another thread that relates to wearing armor, helmets and carrying weapons while crafting.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28167.0
I would think Trasok's to be not as safe as Harnquists as it is in a smaller town. When I go to Trasok's I expect it more likely that I might be attacked on the journey. I don't think it is out of line for a rogue to get in to Trasok's. Maybe he didn't have to kill Trasok, he could have climbed in through a window. Obviously he knew what he was doing as he was able to slaughter a crafter. A cafter who can't defend himself should have stayed at Harnquist's.
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Ah the good old days of Hydlaa being invaded by Ulbernauts.
/me looks around for Drey
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So is whoever dragged the rogues into Trasok's now featured prominently on wanted posters or do they blithely still deal with Trasok and brazenly still walk around town? If you want to consider this good RP then accept the consequences. You have become a rogue just like your buddies who did your dirty work.
That's kind of obvious though, isn't it?
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If the player was roleplaying that they were partnered with the rogue, and are willing to follow up on the RP (as in take the blame if they are caught, pay fines, whatever), then it is good RP. Rogues seem simple minded, and might easily be convinced to attack helpless crafters.
On the other hand, if it was done just to grieve, and no RP thought was given as to why a rogue would attack in a public place, then it is bad, and not RP at all. A rogue would not come out of his hiding on his own to invade buildings on the risk of being caught, killed, or imprisoned. Well, perhaps a -very- stupid one would.
This is a context issue.
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This is view of first forge next to top of stairs, also the crafter view.
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8456/shot46tz1.th.jpg) (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot46tz1.jpg)
Also crafter might have other boxes open, further limiting the view.
One thing I hope we all agree on, is Role Play should be enjoyed by all involved in it, willing or not.
I also hope that if what you do in the name of Role Play. IS enjoyed by all.
Thank you.
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Could not have said it better myself Rennaj.
An RP that ends in the death of an unwilling participant is a bad RP.
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Could not have said it better myself Rennaj.
An RP that ends in the death of an unwilling participant is a bad RP.
I don't necessarily think so. Fair enough OOC the player never knew what was happening 'til it was too late, but the same could be said IC. His back was turned from the approaching rogue and the noise from his work would of probably meant he would of never heard the rogue coming. Should we know OOC everything that is going to happen IC be it a death or not?
The only thing that would make a bad RP in my opinion is if he refused to accept IC consequences.
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I think it's a good thing. There would be people trying to rob you of your weapons. I think it would be annpying, but this way crafters would have to hire private guards to get from point A to point B.
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I would like to point out here that I would have given the folks a little bit of a warning before breaking in.
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You cannot encase your character in a invulnerable protective shell that will make him/her forever protected from criminals, accidents and other types of incidents, if you reject the possibility of death or of being robbed altogether, you are unrealistically giving your character an edge over those who accept such problems as realistic. Of course, on the other side, an evil character can't do something wrong and expect to aways suceed and escape with impunity from law, the "victim" may prove him/herself stronger or luckier and kill your "evil" character in his/her attempt to get some quick tria from others or the cops may get your character and kill or throw in jail. For me both situations(refusing to take risks on your character situation/ aways suceeding when doing bad things) is described by only one word: Bad roleplaying, or perhaps even godmodding.
Of course crime happening in a place full of able-bodied fighters and honest workers is either the case of immense stupidity or despair from the side of the bandit. Why did nobody attempt to stop the rogue from killing someone? And why would a rogue kill someone on spot instead of robbing someone and only killing if this one refuses to hand his things?
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I'd like to know how the palyer got the rogue to switch target, unless things have changed mobs continue to chase one target until it leaves the area one way or another so if the player dragged it in and logged off that would be to me abusing the game mechanics.
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Could not have said it better myself Rennaj.
An RP that ends in the death of an unwilling participant is a bad RP.
First off, yellow font is really annoying for those of us not using the default forum skin.
Secondly, simply by playing the game you accept that your character could die at any time for any reason, especially in-character reasons such as being attacked by criminal NPCs.
I'd like to know how the palyer got the rogue to switch target, unless things have changed mobs continue to chase one target until it leaves the area one way or another so if the player dragged it in and logged off that would be to me abusing the game mechanics.
Not all NPCs stay with one target. Further, it doesn't make IC sense for rogues to ignore targets of opportunity.
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Maybe the person hired the rogue and payed for killing all crafters upstairs? Maybe to draw Trasok smith as place where people die, thus upopular?
And the crafter(s) must be really dump if they don't find it funny ;P. I mean, how can you enjoy a game where you are clicking on furnance all day long and there is nothing unexpected what may happen to you?
I can't understand some people ;P
We really should have some guards forces if we wan't to punish those breaking law... for those who don't RP really well, but still make part of this game, sometimes more challanging with them, than without.
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Rogues tend to get caught in the doorways. If it did manage to get into a crafting area, the inexperianced there shoulld have run.
The player could be roleplaying an evil alignment and decided to have a "henchmen" or somthing like that, evil people kill things.
This is why we need guard AI. Post a couple of guards in Oja, when somone drags the rogues into the streets etc the guards within eye sight jump on it and hopefully kill it.
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RP or not. This action was intentionally forced upon players by Player 1. There is not question about it, action should be taken.
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RP or not. This action was intentionally forced upon players by Player 1. There is not question about it, action should be taken.
ahhhh pain pain! I'm forced to gather some ore if i want to craft a weapon... this hurts so much! can't stand it! Why is it done to us?!!? oh why?
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I vote that we eliminate anything interesting from the game! Only then will people be able to grind in peace!
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I vote that we eliminate anything interesting from the game! Only then will people be able to grind in peace!
I agree, then while we are at it lets have a /killNPC command implemented so we dont have to actually worry about them anymore.
/killNPC Ulbernaught
I am soooooo l33t.
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I vote that we eliminate anything interesting from the game! Only then will people be able to grind in peace!
I agree, then while we are at it lets have a /killNPC command implemented so we dont have to actually worry about them anymore.
/killNPC Ulbernaught
I am soooooo l33t.
Naw, that's too much of a bother. NPCs should just automatically die when they come within a certain distance of your character.
You should also automatically loot any NPC you kill, too. And there should be no limit on how much you can carry.
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Ahhhh, your one step ahead of me in these things. Makes me wonder why the Devs never thought of this.
Maybe its planned to be implemented in the next update,
/me crosses his fingers
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If the person who did this did it in a town not overrun by rogues, maybe somewhere with guards (like Hydlaa)... I'd expect there to be consequences.
If this person is accused IC... They'll ask for the proof of their crime.
The people that identify her... would they RP/IC recognize her (very unlikely) or only OOC recognize her and still throw her name-tag around as if it was IC-evidence? (in which case she'd be facing unrealistic consequences because her identity would be known from OOC information, which is bad RP.)
Ultimately, if anyone is being sought... it's a helm-wearing fenki in Oja. (and there's quite a few people that would fit that description!!)
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Hey I know maybe it would be funny if I bribed a gm to continuously slay player characters whenever they surfaced from the death realm, aww heck why should we wait that long. After all
Secondly, simply by playing the game you accept that your character could die at any time for any reason,
I wonder if $100 U.S. would tempt any of them. <----------- isn't hyperbole fun? Any GM tired of being such give me a PM and we'll have a good laugh, of course I'll laugh even harder when I don't pay up.... Oh wait, you want an IC excuse...hmm I wonder if a GM might like to portray a high level priest of one of the gods and curse some character to the same effect if I donate a couple thousand circles to the temple renovation fund. ;) That works for me!
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A while back there was a major rogue attack in oja where no one was safe on the streets. I'm sure a lot of characters were killed who just happened to be in the way. I don't remember hearing a lot of sympathy for those people.
This demonstrated just how dangerous things can be. History is full of people who went off in to less protected areas to live and work and they died as they weren't prepared.
If someone is actually rping an evil character and they managed to get a rogue to in to Trasok's and attack then I say more power to them as long as if they are discovered they also rp to submit to whatever punishment is dished out.
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I do not actually care about this one way or another as no measly rogue can hurt me much before he dies unless I am oblivious for half an hour or so, and that is only if I have things in my hands that prevent me from auto-defending. I just think that if you are going to allow exploiting limitations in the game engine in one case you have no business complaining if someone does it in another. Consistency should be the rule and exceptions should be very exceptional which this seems not to be.
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This might be a good time to remind you of this from.
Rules of Conduct
While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
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The people that identify her... would they RP/IC recognize her (very unlikely) or only OOC recognize her and still throw her name-tag around as if it was IC-evidence? (in which case she'd be facing unrealistic consequences because her identity would be known from OOC information, which is bad RP.)
Ultimately, if anyone is being sought... it's a helm-wearing fenki in Oja. (and there's quite a few people that would fit that description!!)
Are you saying that the witnesses could not identify and point out the accused to the authorities because all fenkis look the same??
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This might be a good time to remind you of this from.
Rules of Conduct
While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
I think the difference is that your quote from the code of conduct is aimed at OOC incidents of that nature. I have been threatened many times IC and I dont expect or want those people to be banned for it. They are just adding colour to my experiences. (still waiting for some unwanted attention ;) well, it would probably be wanted)
I should say, that yes, it would annoy me if I lost all my stock or came back to find the sword I was heating was now a high quality piece of dust (:( I misss saying pocket dwarf) but I would just get over it and learn the lesson not to drop my guard too quickly in future.
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Rules of Conduct
While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
Only its exectly this what is fun ;P for everyone.
People who actualy mind about every tiny bit of something bad, what hapened to them, are spoiling fun for others ;)
But if you really believe in these strict rules... I have no idea why this topic?
Ban the one who brought the rogue ;)
But if you really want to hear us, this proves these rules to be faulty/incomplete/whatever. I don't know how others feel, but i think the rules were defined like this to stop OOC forms of the above. Only what when some people are capable of accepting it as IC while, others can't? ;)
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While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
I personally think the only part of the Rules of Conduct the topic would apply to is unwanted attention, but i'm pretty sure whoever written it didn't even have in the back of there mind the issue of leading a stray rogue from it's usual spot by a player, only to eventually kill another player who didn't see it coming. I think it was written to apply to a host of different situations which would be deemed as far more serious.
I personally don't see any issue in what he/she done, the unwilling crafter lost alot of hard work (and his life) but this could be deemed as RP in my opinion. I said earlier in the thread and i'll say it again. Must we make players aware OOC on every single thing we plan to do IC, be it evil or not? (and I don't mean everything, there are certain RP's which definitely warrant a heads up)
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I think we should have a 'click the button' game for anyone that just crafts or kills. You'd soon see that the people who whine about this would be gone.
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As I eluded to in my last post. Can anybody really claim that they havent broken any of those rules?
None of you have ever tried to get something for less than its reasonably worth to another player? Defraud
I doubt many of us have tried to harass anyone tbh.
Threaten? I recently threatened to kill a charcter in game because they had swords drawn at a friend.
Distress? I think that on its own is pretty impossible, only caused through one of the other situations.
Give unwanted attention? Im sure everyone has had someone try to RP with them when they are really needing to be somewhere else, that would count, it doesnt say persistent unwanted attention.
That is why I agree with Gharan on this point. The rules are vague, maybe purposely so, possibly to stop people digging into them and saying 'I was banned but didnt technically break any rules'.
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I am shocked at this thread to be honest. it gives a good insight into what alot of you class as RP and OOC.. Personaly i dont see how taking a rogue leading it around an asault course of houses and lamp posts and god knows what els, in the attempt to lead it upstairs to the crafters could ever in any way be classed as RP.
As for the rules, they are there for a reason. there ARE meant to be adhered to. and effecting someones crafting who has NOTHING to do with your RP is breaking those rules however you look at it. You are interfering with THIER game play. End of!
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{I should also say here that I am talking from a players perspective and not a GM. As a GM i am bound by rules and guidlines laid out by my peers, and as such i know this is a grey area. i guess what i am trying to say is. I know what side i would be on.}
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Nope, I certainly wouldn't class it as a well thought out RP in the slightest. But I could sit and think of 100 reasons before carrying it out to validate it into an RP.
I certainly wouldn't class it as causing another player distress.
Anyway this thread seems pointless to me, all you seem to have done is further your own beliefs that what he did was some kind of major wrong and at the same time haven't seen anybody answer the questions others have raised because they differ from your own.
You are interfering with THIER game play. End of!
That furthers my belief that the GM's have already reached there conclusion.
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Surely if all the mobs are taken in the arena all of the players there are interfering with my play?
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Trying to get back to the original question. I'm trying to leave out the doubt I had that someone had made only 2 or 3 trips to the mine, had spent hours digging and then had all days worth of work disappear. But that's just me.
Is the question one of intent?
Was there a player one that intentionally led the rogue to Trasok's with the idea of killing a crafter or is that just suppossed?
If I'm running fom a rogue and dissapear over that horizon and then the rogue drifts on and kills someone am I interfering with that individual? It would seem to me that under a strict definition of the rules that it if I am unable to deal with an NPC and that NPC goes on to interfere with someone then I could be seen as guilty of violation of those rules.
So back to the question, if I am player one then am I guilty or innocent if the crafter dies based on my intent? In one scenario he has been interfered with and in the second scenario he is a victim of fate.
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If someone hurtles into a work shop and back out again in real life the crafter would look whats going on. Now if in real life i were to trick a maniac who just kills the first person he sees, a la the rogues, into following me into a crowed place purely because i felt like creating havoc that is possible no? If so it is an understandable RP. So maybe the crafters would be helped if there was sound so if a rouge does come in grunting and roaring they would be aware but I think by no means should 'player 1' be punished because the crafters in a town full of rogues cant keep an eye out for such incedents. The real question that should be asked is WHY is oja so over run and WHY would anyone in their right mind build a public forge in such an insecure location? I'm sure if people used a blacksmithy in the hyldaa there would be alot less of such incedents.
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This might be a good time to remind you of this from.
Rules of Conduct
While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
Good advice for everyone to remember. ;)
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For me enforcing this rule for legitimate IC actions with decent Roleplay(Not for This Case as Factors Like Guards, Trasok and such were not considered) would be the same than adding the following rule to a FPS server:
1) Do not shoot anyone from the back, wait for this one to spot you as shooting from the back is cowardice, or warn the other player beforehand that you are going to shoot at his back or harm him with a surprise attack.
Other example(Now for the case of a multiplayer server of Civilization or other 4X game):
1) Do not send spies against other player civ/empire before warning him you are sending them.
That is where the problem resides on making such rules too subjective
While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
Perhaps adding the following would make it better:
While playing PlaneShift, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. However, threatening and commiting "evil" acts In-character with a solid RP behind them is not considered as this rule is for OOC actions of disregard
@zanzibar: Making accusations and insinuating certain things without proof?
/me brings some lawsuits
:P
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If someone hurtles into a work shop and back out again in real life the crafter would look whats going on. Now if in real life i were to trick a maniac who just kills the first person he sees, a la the rogues, into following me into a crowed place purely because i felt like creating havoc that is possible no? If so it is an understandable RP.
Understandable if you too are a maniac, is your character that psychotic? If it is perhaps it belongs in an asylum. Face it this action was just done to get around having to have a challenge accepted to kill weaker players. That is the crux of the infraction.
So maybe the crafters would be helped if there was sound so if a rouge does come in grunting and roaring they would be aware but I think by no means should 'player 1' be punished because the crafters in a town full of rogues cant keep an eye out for such incedents. The real question that should be asked is WHY is oja so over run and WHY would anyone in their right mind build a public forge in such an insecure location? I'm sure if people used a blacksmithy in the hyldaa there would be alot less of such incedents.
Umm if you want to train your skill past what Harnie will train you need to see Trasok, who in their right mind would want to run back and forth between training and practicing. It is bad enough having to spend so much time working, the unnecessary travel makes it worse.
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I will be sure to lure ulbernauts into town. Ah! ill do it during a festival and while everyones drunk they will be run through with a giant spike from a bloody mouthed monster. Lovely. Guards, seriously. I have told so many people and a couple Gms to give me power over the rogues but they are afraid of me...
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Better still do it during a wedding, if you are lucky you can get both the bride and the groom! or possibly both grooms or both brides I suppose.
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Dam, no WAIT o my god, I am a naughty boy! I will lure an ulbernaught as the stripper for some poor guys bachelor party, ill say it is a woman klyros...then when they are dead and have a horrbile hangover walking in DR talking about how much they want to kill volund i have already made the groom sign off his fiance to me while the ulbernaught is his forever wife! THE END!
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Learn C++, program the code that would have the rogues go back to thier original area after chasing someone for so long, submit it to the dev team for review, wait until it gets put in game. Problems solved. :)
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Hopefully the rules relate strictly to player-player interaction and not character-character interaction.
As for 'causing distress' .. if someone leads a mob to my character and the mobs kills me... I, as a player, do not see it as personal distress being caused... - nobody has personally attacked me... my character just died 'cuz he wasn't watching his back... I'd have to be pretty unhealthily-absorbed-in-my-character to take that as the sort of personal attack that the rules seem intended to protect players against. --- and surely... that's what the rules are actually referring to... otherwise in-character harassment/threats and people like con-artists/thieves/etc. are all to be excluded from Planeshift??!)
I'd rather be in a world where unpredictable bad things can sneak up on you, even if that's as the result of another character's mischievousness... than in a predictable world totally sanitized and safe for the partially-active furnace-power-leveler and frequent 'AFKer' to enjoy without repercussion. --- Unless the person involved objects to IC repercussions... I personally feel enforcement should be done in-game, in-character... rather than as the over-arching influence of OOC authorities!! -- The 'crafters' could hire guards... or get a friend to keep an eye out for them... or even investigate who's doing this and get a gang to go deal with the pest!!
I'm probably totally wrong.. but I'll live and learn ;)
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After thinking about this one for a while, I think my viewpoint is that a character being 'mischievous' and training dangerous mobs into an area once can be seen as relatively harmless fun, but if they do it repetitively, they are griefing and will get in trouble.
Regarding the rule quoted, I think the word "excessively" is understood in that rule, even if not written. If a player says "hello" to another player, the 2nd player cannot get the first player banned for "unwanted attention" or whatever just by saying he didn't want to be greeted. Saying hello 50 times to spam someone's chat window is a different matter.
It's all a matter of degree. And keeping the crafters on their toes doesn't sound like a bad thing either. :-)
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After thinking about this one for a while, I think my viewpoint is that a character being 'mischievous' and training dangerous mobs into an area once can be seen as relatively harmless fun, but if they do it repetitively, they are griefing and will get in trouble.
That should be solved In-character by a "police" and justice game system with intelligent NPCs instead of banning people because their characters are stubborn and bothersome.
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After thinking about this one for a while, I think my viewpoint is that a character being 'mischievous' and training dangerous mobs into an area once can be seen as relatively harmless fun, but if they do it repetitively, they are griefing and will get in trouble.
That should be solved In-character by a "police" and justice game system with intelligent NPCs instead of banning people because their characters are stubborn and bothersome.
I wonder why the Devs didnt think about that, after all its only about 5 minutes of coding........ isnt it? ::)
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Thank you for your thoughts, you have helped me understand better how you the players see things. As a player for 2 years I had a clear idea of the rules, and how I interpreted them, but I am only one person, and each of us see things slightly different. So basically you have opened my mind to looking at things with a wider outlook.
My opening post was based on a real event in game, the player one was talked to, was not warned or punished in any way, but did agree to hear a sort version of how a crafter works, as she had no idea of what a crafter does, she does now.
Also hear is something for you all to think on in closing, Crafters make very good weapons, and in the future who knows what they may make, so if you want to buy them, do not upset them to much.
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That's a really good point, Rennaj: bully a crafter too much and you may find a whole union of them refusing to sell you their wares when you may need them most (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6632/grinby0.gif)
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Hence in which situation it would be a good idea to join The Outlaws ;) You would be equiped for mischieve and getting away with it.
Hope you dont mind the shamless advertising.
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Crafters in this game are tricky, and have very good intelligence networks.
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Yeah they all huddle round the same forge.
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Also hear is something for you all to think on in closing, Crafters make very good weapons, and in the future who knows what they may make, so if you want to buy them, do not upset them to much.
That's kinda beside the point though. If you have an IC motivation for causing trouble or wanting to see people suffer, then that's just how your character is and he or she will weigh the benefits and consequences of his or her actions in that light. More to the point though... I don't think it's within your bounds as a GM to enforce this kind of behaviour. Stop people from harassing other players, but leave it at that.
That's a really good point, Rennaj: bully a crafter too much and you may find a whole union of them refusing to sell you their wares when you may need them most (http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6632/grinby0.gif)
While true, there can still be convincing in character motivations for a character to cause trouble. If your character would do such a thing and you choose not to for fear of pissing off the crafters --- unless something like that is important to your character, you're only restraining your character's actions based on what's important to you as a player so the actions are based in OOC motivations.
So you make a good argument to design a character who plays nicely for others, but it's a bad argument to make for why a trouble-making character should behave.
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So when do the asylums get implemented so there is a place for the undesirables to be left to rot or suffer torments unkind? What will it take to commit such people? Knock them unconscious drop them off with a signed committal form? a hefty bribe?
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So when do the asylums get implemented so there is a place for the undesirables to be left to rot or suffer torments unkind? What will it take to commit such people? Knock them unconscious drop them off with a signed committal form? a hefty bribe?
Interesting idea, but I think there are a few assumptions built into it which you need to justify before any actions can be taken.
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...next thing you know their will be miners unions, crafters unions, mercenarys unions. Bank alt unions...
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...next thing you know their will be miners unions, crafters unions...
And "Soviet Union" :P
Great, we can make general strikes then to begin our revolution!
Commercial guilds with wage slavery, beware!
Workers of Yliakum, Unite!
Seriously, this isn't 19th century :P
Unless there is a real plight to the workers(most people are literate according to what was said previously, so more education = more possibilities of people rebelling if in bad living conditions), I doubt unions would be formed.
And btw, modern unions structures are more or less based on the structures of medieval guilds.