I want your thoughts.

[drah]

Hopefully the rules relate strictly to player-player interaction and not character-character interaction.

As for 'causing distress' .. if someone leads a mob to my character and the mobs kills me... I, as a player, do not see it as personal distress being caused... - nobody has personally attacked me... my character just died 'cuz he wasn't watching his back... I'd have to be pretty unhealthily-absorbed-in-my-character to take that as the sort of personal attack that the rules seem intended to protect players against. --- and surely... that's what the rules are actually referring to... otherwise in-character harassment/threats and people like con-artists/thieves/etc. are all to be excluded from Planeshift??!)

I'd rather be in a world where unpredictable bad things can sneak up on you, even if that's as the result of another character's mischievousness... than in a predictable world totally sanitized and safe for the partially-active furnace-power-leveler and frequent 'AFKer' to enjoy without repercussion. --- Unless the person involved objects to IC repercussions... I personally feel enforcement should be done in-game, in-character... rather than as the over-arching influence of OOC authorities!! -- The 'crafters' could hire guards... or get a friend to keep an eye out for them... or even investigate who's doing this and get a gang to go deal with the pest!!

I'm probably totally wrong.. but I'll live and learn

[Vengeance]

After thinking about this one for a while, I think my viewpoint is that a character being 'mischievous' and training dangerous mobs into an area once can be seen as relatively harmless fun, but if they do it repetitively, they are griefing and will get in trouble.

Regarding the rule quoted, I think the word "excessively" is understood in that rule, even if not written.  If a player says "hello" to another player, the 2nd player cannot get the first player banned for "unwanted attention" or whatever just by saying he didn't want to be greeted.  Saying hello 50 times to spam someone's chat window is a different matter.

It's all a matter of degree.  And keeping the crafters on their toes doesn't sound like a bad thing either. :-)

[lordraleigh]

After thinking about this one for a while, I think my viewpoint is that a character being 'mischievous' and training dangerous mobs into an area once can be seen as relatively harmless fun, but if they do it repetitively, they are griefing and will get in trouble.

That should be solved In-character by a "police" and justice game system with intelligent NPCs instead of banning people because their characters are stubborn and bothersome.

[Idoru]

After thinking about this one for a while, I think my viewpoint is that a character being 'mischievous' and training dangerous mobs into an area once can be seen as relatively harmless fun, but if they do it repetitively, they are griefing and will get in trouble.

That should be solved In-character by a "police" and justice game system with intelligent NPCs instead of banning people because their characters are stubborn and bothersome.

I wonder why the Devs didnt think about that, after all its only about 5 minutes of coding........ isnt it? 

[Rennaj]

Thank you for your thoughts, you have helped me understand better how you the players see things. As a player for 2 years I had a clear idea of the rules, and how I interpreted them, but I am only one person, and each of us see things slightly different. So basically you have opened my mind to looking at things with a wider outlook.
 My opening post was based on a real event in game, the player one was talked to, was not warned or punished in any way, but did agree to hear a sort version of how a crafter works, as she had no idea of what a crafter does, she does now.
 Also hear is something for you all to think on in closing, Crafters make very good weapons, and in the future who knows what they may make, so if you want to buy them, do not upset them to much.

[Karyuu]

That's a really good point, Rennaj: bully a crafter too much and you may find a whole union of them refusing to sell you their wares when you may need them most

[Narure]

Hence in which situation it would be a good idea to join The Outlaws  You would be equiped for mischieve and getting away with it.
Hope you dont mind the shamless advertising.

[eldoth_terevan]

Crafters in this game are tricky, and have very good intelligence networks.

[Narure]

Yeah they all huddle round the same forge.

[zanzibar]

Also hear is something for you all to think on in closing, Crafters make very good weapons, and in the future who knows what they may make, so if you want to buy them, do not upset them to much.

That's kinda beside the point though.  If you have an IC motivation for causing trouble or wanting to see people suffer, then that's just how your character is and he or she will weigh the benefits and consequences of his or her actions in that light.  More to the point though... I don't think it's within your bounds as a GM to enforce this kind of behaviour.  Stop people from harassing other players, but leave it at that.

That's a really good point, Rennaj: bully a crafter too much and you may find a whole union of them refusing to sell you their wares when you may need them most

While true, there can still be convincing in character motivations for a character to cause trouble.  If your character would do such a thing and you choose not to for fear of pissing off the crafters --- unless something like that is important to your character, you're only restraining your character's actions based on what's important to you as a player so the actions are based in OOC motivations.

So you make a good argument to design a character who plays nicely for others, but it's a bad argument to make for why a trouble-making character should behave.

[bilbous]

So when do the asylums get implemented so there is a place for the undesirables to be left to rot or suffer torments unkind? What will it take to commit such people? Knock them unconscious drop them off with a signed committal form? a hefty bribe?

[zanzibar]

So when do the asylums get implemented so there is a place for the undesirables to be left to rot or suffer torments unkind? What will it take to commit such people? Knock them unconscious drop them off with a signed committal form? a hefty bribe?

Interesting idea, but I think there are a few assumptions built into it which you need to justify before any actions can be taken.

[Volund]

...next thing you know their will be miners unions, crafters unions, mercenarys unions. Bank alt unions...

[lordraleigh]

...next thing you know their will be miners unions, crafters unions...

And "Soviet Union"

Great, we can make general strikes then to begin our revolution!

Commercial guilds with wage slavery, beware!

Workers of Yliakum, Unite!

Seriously, this isn't 19th century

Unless there is a real plight to the workers(most people are literate according to what was said previously, so more education = more possibilities of people rebelling if in bad living conditions), I doubt unions would be formed.

And btw, modern unions structures are more or less based on the structures of medieval guilds.