PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: zanzibar on April 13, 2007, 10:22:40 pm
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- It's great that Dlayo can run. He's no longer a sitting duck for arrows and it's forcing people to work together.
- Almost everyone understands the settings of the zone.
- People become very angry if someone else actually attacks them while in the zone. I've seen a few guys start to drop f bombs and do other "innapropriate" and OOC things after being attacked.
- People are going afk while in the zone.
- I've seen groups of as many as six people working together to camp Dlayo and kill anyone who isn't a part of the group.
- If you have your character face a wall while unarmed, you'll probably be attacked by people there to camp Dlayo.
- People are using magic attacks against other players while in the zone.
- People are using magic attacks from the door so that they can retreat to safety if their victim gets too close.
I've been going to the arena to engage in player killing every so often. Just like I said would happen, people have learned to gang up on the problem players. If I go there, I can expect five people to attack me all at once while ignoring eachother. It's exactly what I predicted could happen with open PVP.
The problem I see is that people aren't treating the zone as a place to fight other players. They see it as a place to camp a unique NPC, and PvP is merely an inconvenience for them. The proof for this is pretty clear: People become angry when attacked, people are going afk, people are ganging up on anyone who engages in player killing, people are going there only because Dlayo is there, people are using magic attacks when fighting other players, and so on. So because of how people are using it, the zone is not a place people can go to compete with each another.
Edit to include more observations:
- People who aren't with a group are very unlikely to attack anyone else.
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if people are trying to hit and then run to safty of the door, then once you enter the PVP zone you should be marked for a few minutes after you leave he zone, meaning that you can be attacked outside the zone and therefore running away wont be as effective as it seeems. if you can run for long enough then your cowardice can be rewarded with prolonged lifespans, but if your casting from a distance and then hiding behind the zone limiters people should be able to do somthhing about that. You enter the zone you stay PVPable for five minutes.
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What about the poor newbie that stumbles in there out of curiosity, realises their mistake and pegs it, only to be persued by a crazed rabble, foaming at the mouth for a whole five minutes? AKA five mins is too long.
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Five minutes isn't to much to log off for, it is what I would do in that situation.
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I have seen the following two behaviours I highly deprecate:
1) Shooting at the dlayo from the outside with arrows. I was inside the PvP and fought the Dlayo. I made a first hit and suddenly I got "You cannot attack Dylao. You have to be grouped with XYZ". :( The fact that the glad continued to hunt me while the arrower took a looooong time to arrow him down didn't make the things better. >:( The Dlayo should be impervious for everyone outside the PvP and if someone is actually attacking him, someone should not be able to leave the pvp.
2)Backstabbers. They might think its funny to attack a group, that is fighting the glad. But complaining when they return back and arrow or hunt him down shows to me, he can give out griev but can't accept to take griev. Alltough that was managed by players as they picked him up whenevr he appeared. :P
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2)Backstabbers. They might think its funny to attack a group, that is fighting the glad. But complaining when they return back and arrow or hunt him down shows to me, he can give out griev but can't accept to take griev. Alltough that was managed by players as they picked him up whenevr he appeared. :P
Let me get this straight... you're complaining about someone attacking you in a PvP zone?
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I've been going to the arena to engage in player killing every so often. Just like I said would happen, people have learned to gang up on the problem players. If I go there, I can expect five people to attack me all at once while ignoring eachother. It's exactly what I predicted could happen with open PVP.
Bring some friends of your own. :thumbup:
Its like xillix said, 'king of the hill', and the prize for being ontop is the dlayo. So bring a group.
Though you do make some good points, alas I cannot see how any of them can be fulfilled without brainwashing players.
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Bring some friends of your own. :thumbup:
Its like xillix said, 'king of the hill', and the prize for being ontop is the dlayo. So bring a group.
See, I'd consider that unfair and griefing.
Though you do make some good points, alas I cannot see how any of them can be fulfilled without brainwashing players.
Thanks. I'm just making observations though.
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i do not see why a second thread was needed . . .
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2)Backstabbers. They might think its funny to attack a group, that is fighting the glad. But complaining when they return back and arrow or hunt him down shows to me, he can give out griev but can't accept to take griev. Alltough that was managed by players as they picked him up whenevr he appeared. :P
Let me get this straight... you're complaining about someone attacking you in a PvP zone?
I am complaining about someone who backstabbed a mage in PvP area and when he gets hit by the mage arrows he complains.
I know that pvp area is intended to attack players. But not running in and within seconds attacking. There is no chance to select the attacker and hit back.
And when you where finally able to target said player (after coming back from DR) and attack him, he shouts that attacking with arrow is unfair. At that point I was annoyed.
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Five minutes isn't to much to log off for, it is what I would do in that situation.
Simple solution, fix it so that you cant log off during that tagged time.
As for the newbie, there should be a VERY clear notice that the area is a PVP zone.
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um it is not clear?
I do not wish to add any OOC warnings to the area
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I am complaining about someone who backstabbed a mage in PvP area and when he gets hit by the mage arrows he complains.
Using magic in duels is usually seen as rude. It's an arena, not a magic school.
Then again, it sounds like that mage was probably just trying to kill the guy so he could have Dlayo to himself.
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Why all this animosity towards magic? Yliakum is not a land where mages are considered lesser beings, nor an evil force, nor arrogant superiors. I don't understand the mentalities I am seeing from some players.
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Karyuu it is mostly a strange issue of balance Karyuu you have to see what is happening to understand why there are some complaints.
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So it is occurring because of technical issues, then. That's better :)
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Well when ranged weapons are ingame i can see things balencing out.
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I am complaining about someone who backstabbed a mage in PvP area and when he gets hit by the mage arrows he complains.
Using magic in duels is usually seen as rude. It's an arena, not a magic school.
Then again, it sounds like that mage was probably just trying to kill the guy so he could have Dlayo to himself.
The mage was actually me. And starting a duel (even challenging) with out reason is also considered rude normally. Giving another player time to prepare to duel in PvP is necessary, otherwise it isn't a duel, its just killing a char while the player was typing in cha window.
So what do you want to say? I should bow and stick to all rules set by other players?
Did I get you right, running in pvp and killing a player in less then 3 seconds without any reason is fine but when a mage uses arrows in pvp is rude?
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Why all this animosity towards magic? Yliakum is not a land where mages are considered lesser beings, nor an evil force, nor arrogant superiors. I don't understand the mentalities I am seeing from some players.
The problem is that the PVP area was obviously created so that people could fight eachother in the arena with freedom. However, people are using magic in order to kill people from a safe distance for the purpose of monopolizing Dlayo. Is this a good thing?
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First, I (our group) did not monopolize. Second, we whre inside the arena.
I agree, that attacking the Dlayo from outside using arrows is a sign of weakness and cowardness. But I dont see a reason why I should not use arrows inside the pvp arena.
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First, I (our group) did not monopolize. Second, we whre inside the arena.
I agree, that attacking the Dlayo from outside using arrows is a sign of weakness and cowardness. But I dont see a reason why I should not use arrows inside the pvp arena.
Weakness and cowardess, why? Because it means they can't be attacked by Dlayo, or because it means they can't be attacked by you?
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First, I (our group) did not monopolize. Second, we whre inside the arena.
I agree, that attacking the Dlayo from outside using arrows is a sign of weakness and cowardness. But I dont see a reason why I should not use arrows inside the pvp arena.
Weakness and cowardess, why? Because it means they can't be attacked by Dlayo, or because it means they can't be attacked by you?
First thing. There is no challenge in arrowing a npc down from a save point.
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First thing. There is no challenge in arrowing a npc down from a save point.
Are you saying that if someone went after Dlayo and you were waiting for the mob to spawn, you wouldn't attack the competitor so that you'd have Dlayo to yourself?
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First thing. There is no challenge in arrowing a npc down from a save point.
Are you saying that if someone went after Dlayo and you were waiting for the mob to spawn, you wouldn't attack the competitor so that you'd have Dlayo to yourself?
Do you read my posts at all? Thats not what happened.
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This is drifting off of the original topic. If you want to discuss each other's personal tactics or beliefs, please do it elsewhere. I'm not liking the argumentative tone that is evolving in this discussion.
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The tactic of grouping together to a) kill Dlayo and b) keep other players from killing Dlayo, sounds perfect to me in a FFA PVP area. The whole idea of FFA PVP is conflict over scarce treasures. Congratulations, you have it now.
Bring friends and take over if you don't like it. :-)
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The tactic of grouping together to a) kill Dlayo and b) keep other players from killing Dlayo, sounds perfect to me in a FFA PVP area. The whole idea of FFA PVP is conflict over scarce treasures. Congratulations, you have it now.
Bring friends and take over if you don't like it. :-)
That's one way of looking at it. The only question is whether or not everyone is on the same page.
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What part of open pvp meaning any measure possible by game mechanics is unclear? If it is possible it is legal how else are bugs going to get exposed and remedied? This does bring one thought to mind though, if it is FFA then all characters and npc's should be available for killing so there should be no attack lockout on dlayo and anyone who makes a successful attack on him should share in the XP and have a chance at the loot.
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Just a quick point, it quite obviously isn't a FFA if people are working in groups...
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That is not obvious to me, if weaker players choose to gang up on stronger ones they still have the ability to fight amongst themselves once he is dispatched. Perhaps though all groups should be disbanded in favor of, or superseded by, one group containing every person in the pvp room. Joining the group would be as simple as entering the room and leaving the room would automatically force leaving the group.
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That is not obvious to me, if weaker players choose to gang up on stronger ones they still have the ability to fight amongst themselves once he is dispatched. Perhaps though all groups should be disbanded in favor of, or superseded by, one group containing every person in the pvp room. Joining the group would be as simple as entering the room and leaving the room would automatically force leaving the group.
My character isn't maxed out, but it's been ganged up on by large groups of players who deal 400 damage per hit. So these aren't groups of "weaker players" by any means.
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Well I did specify players not characters but leaving that aside, what do you think of the single group idea?
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The tactic of grouping together to a) kill Dlayo and b) keep other players from killing Dlayo, sounds perfect to me in a FFA PVP area. The whole idea of FFA PVP is conflict over scarce treasures. Congratulations, you have it now.
Bring friends and take over if you don't like it. :-)
That's one way of looking at it. The only question is whether or not everyone is on the same page.
Somehow my earlier posts are missunderstood.
1) Attacking with arrows from outside PvP arena:
Standing on the side (outside) and arrowing the Dlayo while others fight him is not perfect to me. First, you dont get any execise in dueling, you dont get loot, only thing you get is practice in crystal way. But you can get cw practise without putting other players in a situation where they are attacked by the dylao without a possibility to defend them self ("must be grouped with xyz"). This is not a fight about resources (loots), this is just grieving other players. and watch them die without a chance to defend them self.
2) Backstabing:
Some players like to fight others. Thats fine in a pvp arena. Backstabbing (entering and killing characters who stand near the door within seconds) is rude I think (especially for enkis - who have a long walk). And again this was not resources, it was to annoy other players.
What annoyed me really was, when I came back and arrowed said player from inside the pvp arena after he attacked me a second time and I got an ooc complaint about being unfair. Why should I not be allowed to use arrows on other players inside the pvp arena?
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Its kinda rude to kill people full stop. The Devs arent going to put in petty rules about where you can and cant attack mobs from and no one is going to play by other players rules becuase they will alwasy have a differnt veiw on these things. There would be alot less moaning with non-leathal combat me thinks.
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well, I just got my 1st experience of the PvP area, wasnt a good one either. I had just killed Dlayo when a player ran up and killed me from behind. wasnt very nice of them. I have also noticed how some players like to camp the area. as if they are only interested in PvP. Seems a bit wierd in an RP game.
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well, I just got my 1st experience of the PvP area, wasnt a good one either. I had just killed Dlayo when a player ran up and killed me from behind. wasnt very nice of them. I have also noticed how some players like to camp the area. as if they are only interested in PvP. Seems a bit wierd in an RP game.
That's why any roleplayer would rather stay clear of that place. I suggest to turn it into a side-project with only the PvP area as its humble begginings and rename it as "DM-YliakumArena", then convert it to Quake 3 engine :whistling:
But something should be done about the campers first...
Yes, in my opinion the PvP area is anti-roleplay.
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Ok, so you don't have complete control over what's going on, but how is it anti-roleplay? ???
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Role players like foreplay and pillow talk, pvp'ers just want to get the nasty deed over with and go home -- no cuddling. Kran don't understand the whole concept.
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So, is this thread going to be locked or the other one?
:)
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So, is this thread going to be locked or the other one?
:)
Isn't it better to merge both if something will be done about them?
And I dare to call it "1337v1337" instead of PvP too... It's just like a deathmatch arena if you take a look at it... but with more opportunities for campers as player skills aren't very important. I doubt roleplayers will miss or bother with it, as they will stay clear from it until at least an IC explanation is given.
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The replies would criss-cross and it would be really hard to follow. Both were used at the same time, so you wouldn't be able to tell who is replying to who if things were not quoted.
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I don't see what the problem is with having several threads on similar topics. It's not like people would post less... you'd just end up with fewer threads which were that much busier and harder to follow.
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Should be this one, it is self defined as "Quick" if it gets much longed we might all get sucked into some parallel universe :o
Just kidding, as long as the discussions are different I see no need for either thread to be closed. Of course two cents doesn't buy much these days. It is almost impossible to find penny candy anymore.
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Generally, we do like to avoid duplicate threads on the same topic. Checking two places to read about the same thing is what becomes cumbersome. I'm closing this one as it was the last to be started - please continue your conversations in the other (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28226.0).