PlaneShift
Fan Area => Fan Art => Topic started by: Piemont on May 02, 2007, 04:50:08 pm
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here are some screenshots about my weapon for planshift:
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/615364
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/615368
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/615373
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/615377
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/615375
thank you for feedbacks.
Piemont
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'Picture not found'
:-\
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http://mediacache11.badongo.com/0779914056257443/3329855/image/2007-05-02/org/ps01.jpg?dl=y&ts=1178113367&z=cf073cbfb08ef5cf1140cf1d83719d39&ip=194.112.163.78
does it work?*hm*
salute
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Hiya Piemont, better to have your own thread for this model than post in the Submitting Models one :] The weapon looks really good, but at the same time I'm wondering whether the polycount is too high for use in PS? I remember asking you to try out this weapon on IRC, and I don't remember if I asked you to hold off on texturing until the geometry is approved - but this is something that you should do next time.
What is the polycount for the weapon? If it's 150-200 or lower, I'd love to take it for the game.
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hmmmmm, I think that is a Bat'leth:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/BetleH.jpg/300px-BetleH.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat'leth
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Yep, that's the weapon I recommended as a reference :) We can add a few tweaks to the form to avoid a complete replica.
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Have you ever thought of the practicality of this weapon? Well...its not practical. If you think about it, this weapon would be an incredibly awkward and ungainly object to fight with, regardless if it looks interesting or not. Theres a reason nothing like it was developed historically.
I havent actually seen the model you created, is there anyway you can host a .jpg or something on imageshack. te other links dont seem to work.
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I think this depends on its size. If it is between a shortsword and a dagger instead of a longsword/claymore, I think the usability increases.
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Gentar, I say the same thing about those huge horned helms in the game now. Nice to look at, but completely useless in a fight. There is a reason why most armor is as smooth and tight to the body as possible (leaving room for padding), just as there is a reason weapons are kept simple and functional.
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Pfft, you guys are boring! :) Play with rocks and sticks if you'd like, I'm always looking for something that looks badass in a game.
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How about dangerous fresh fruit, fresh fruit is lethal as weapons :|
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Gentar, I say the same thing about those huge horned helms in the game now. Nice to look at, but completely useless in a fight. There is a reason why most armor is as smooth and tight to the body as possible (leaving room for padding), just as there is a reason weapons are kept simple and functional.
<3 Under the moon
I wanted to say that myself, but I figured out people would just pfft me the way Karyuu there did.
Yes, indeed. I cannot come to understand why anyone would use weapon of this sort in combat. The helmet is just as good example, due to the fact it would cause more disadvantages than it may bring the opposite.
Now. More than having "badass" looking weapons, I'd wish to see... a flute. Not because I particularly want the flutes, but because I find them more favourable for a game which already has a big stock of normal weapons implemented. Planeshift isn't meant to be a hack&slash game. At least I don't think it does. Additionally from what I heard Planeshift is intended to be oriented around role-playing "people", not "mega-warriors" (of course it seems quite the opposite for the time being, but that's beside the point!). Now my point is none of this will come into success when we'll encourage "Ohmigosh! What a cool weapon! I want one like that too!" attitude. Swords, axes, spears (hey how about making a spear for a change!) and all that stuff is enough. Otherwise why don't we also make "badass" pickaxes for people to dig with?
But I don't intend to have anything changed with that post of mine. I know people are going to pfft and ignore it anyway. I just post my opinion to express my love for the Under the moon ;p
Edit: I know we have panflutes. It most certainly doesn't cover the entire family of "flute" instruments and it's beside my point anyway :P
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I like it...but maybe to avoid the Klingon confusion you could change one of the ends to be a handle, that's what I thought it was at first. Otherwise it does look like one of those... Bat'leth, yeah, that's how you spell it.
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Draklar, we have panflutes in the game :)
But I still send a friendly pfft in your direction! ;)
Anyway, Piemont has contacted me by email and the model has nearly 2k triangles - way too much for any usability. He'll be starting it again and add a few of his own modifications to the shape, to make it more original.
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Wouldn't using this weapon in PS violate both Talad's Law (you see it in public, it ain't in my game) and the copyright laws of most countries (being a Klingon weapon from Star Trek)?
OR is this a joke thread and I missed it? ;D
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Araye, the weapon concept is going to be modified :) The final form will not be a direct copy. Moreover, I am hoping to get the no-forum-showing unwritten rule changed, and I believe I have some of the ability necessary to do that - our "What the Team needs from You" thread is a good precedent of what else may come in the future. Be optimistic!
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Hey man, form follows function I beleive! Its not like there is no room for ornamentation. Even the horns of a helmet have a function of intimidation. I love things that look badass, I just dont want things that are ridiculous.
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The Bat'leth is a versatile weapon and shield. I have seen some good fight scenes with this and I think it can be very practical if used correctly. These can be used with a single hand or both, depending on fighting style and situation. It’s kinda like Ti-Chi meets Road Warrior ;) Each one is designed for its owner for perfect weight and balance as well as size; it becomes part of the wielder.
In this link (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Bat'leth) it shows 3 distinct designs.
Here is a so-so demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7cFeljgO3Y
Training starts young: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHRn63HB7as
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Hey man, form follows function I beleive! Its not like there is no room for ornamentation. Even the horns of a helmet have a function of intimidation. I love things that look badass, I just dont want things that are ridiculous.
If they are going to be a bit like hand size... they would make excellent boxing gloves ;)
If they are going to be a bit bigger, like Short sword sizes then see this following cartoon about it ;)
(http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1170/blademw1.th.png) (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blademw1.png)
As you can see you can use the blade the disshead an oppentent very easy with holding the oppents on the ground and just push with the blade *tsjak* his head off ;)
Very functional for a weapon \\o//
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erm, nice diagram
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erm, nice diagram
(http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1442/illyriabannerqg6.jpg)
Anywaym it's not about the diagram, it's about the weapon and it's functionality :detective: Both are excellent! :lol:
:flowers: go Piemont!
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i give my best and working on;-)
:thumbup:
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Indeed... I fixed that image for you... I added a little thing I like to call, 'Really'
(http://i11.tinypic.com/5xxbnnb.jpg)
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The Bat'leth is a versatile weapon and shield. I have seen some good fight scenes with this and I think it can be very practical if used correctly.
Yes, I'm also sure Jackie Chan could show us how much of a lethal weapon a spoon can be if used correctly.
Here is a so-so demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7cFeljgO3Y
Aye, thank you for showing us why this weapon would not work.
As we can see on the video, when wielded in two hands, this weapon would lack any considerable force on impact. Length of a weapon more often than not is a critical matter when it comes to dealing damage. This can be best observed with swords. If you hit with part of the blade near to hilt, it may at best push your opponent away. Now hitting with part closer to the tip of the blade could easily knock him out (unless he's wearing plate armour, in which case slashing at him would be just stupid). This also explains why longswords are more lethal than shortswords. The exception to this rule comes in the form of piercing weaponry, such as daggers or rapiers, but usage of this weapon doesn't quite resemble those. Here much better would be a long staff with blades attached at its ends. It would give much better range and strength on impact. If used correctly, it could also drive people away from the short distance. Alternative is simple shortsword. Much faster and much more flexible. Allows you to deliver blows from much greater arch without actually getting uncovered for a longer time. Additionally you have left hand ready to use shield, parrying weapon or another shortsword. Also, when you use weapons like that, you have to deliver the blows using your enire body. That guy uses only his arms, which makes it all the more amusing.
It may somehow work on short distance, but it wouldn't damage plate or chainmail. Additionally I have my doubts as to the leather. And let's be frank. Most people that go into short distance are those who use either shortswords or daggers. Both of those weapons are faster and much more lethal than what was presented on that video. But I guess you could use it to a good effect against armourless fist-fighting monks. But you wouldn't actually defeat spoon-wielding Jackie Chan. As to its defending possibilities, I'd like to see that guy parrying attack at legs. Completely out of range.
Now as one-handed weapon. Bulky. There's just no way to manouver this thing during actual fight. Look at the video. That silly man has problems with delivering a straight blow with that silly thing when he wields it with one hand. And by the way, that back attack is a good example of what not to do during a fight.
If it wasn't for the spread-into-two blades thingy, I could kind of see its use if held with two hands, where one of hands takes the central handle, and used like a sword. It wouldn't be as fast or powerful as normal equivalents, but at least it might have a chance to damage anything beyond bare skin.
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It doesnt look like somthing that would be used for anything other than decorative purposes because normal swords are easier to use, more effective and easier to make.
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Yes, I'm also sure Jackie Chan could show us how much of a lethal weapon a spoon can be if used correctly.
Offtopic:
Jackie Chan Sucks if compared with
Best weapon in the world(in the hands of its only master) :whistling:
Swiss Army Knife!!!! (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c6/Swiss_army_knife_open_20050612.jpg/800px-Swiss_army_knife_open_20050612.jpg)
The Master of Swiss Army Knife (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Macgyver.jpg) >>>>> Jackie Chan :woot:
Ontopic:
Indeed... I fixed that image for you... I added a little thing I like to call, 'Really'
Weapons are not developed to be unpractical and more dangerous to the wielder than to its opponents.
It doesnt look like somthing that would be used for anything other than decorative purposes because normal swords are easier to use, more effective and easier to make.
It could still be a great non-conventional weapon, if you handed it as a gift to your enemies, just like some greeks did to trojans... >o) It's resemblance to Star Trek(A series known for having some non-ergonomical weapons) add to OOCness. Perhaps you could recycle the idea?
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It doesnt look like somthing that would be used for anything other than decorative purposes because normal swords are easier to use, more effective and easier to make.
Maybe a bit difficult to use, but that doesn't make it worse... A car is more dificult to handle then a Bike, still A car kills a lot more xD
and how do you know swords are more effective? Just beacsue it was in the crappy serries or start trek (no offense) doesn't mean the design is bad.
I mean C'mon, let real experts be judging about 'how well the weapons handles in fight' So no more comment about that, unless you are a weapon expert. (Aren't there rules for only 'programming people can complain about the codes and stuff?)
And what IF a weapons expert says it a crap weapon? Don't we have in RL 'a rock' as weapons and a 'tank'?
Or do you only want 'Super' weapons in PS?
And last but not least, it still beats a Sword in chopping of heads!
Example: I have my oppent kicked down on the floor, now for a long sword (and claymore) I should get up to make a decend head chopping swing. For a short swords I would have to push on it with both hands (for a clean cut one hand on the blade of the swords, ouchy). with a áwesome blade' you only have to push like a bocking gloves and chop! ;)Piemont's design still rules!
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Weapons are not developed to be unpractical and more dangerous to the wielder than to its opponents.
Gee, you think? XD
This weapon looks like it would be deadly in the hands of anyone but an elite fighter... making it unreasonable to use in standing armies [because an army of super elite swordsmen is rare] and it costs too much material to make, look at its size, not to mention it would easily be damaged, and would be a pain to repair... Its just not logical.
EDIT: not to mention its bulky... and would be a pain to use in close quarters... and the fact its double bladed just screams 'Friendly fire'
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Gee, you think? XD
This weapon looks like it would be deadly int he hands of anyone but an elite fighter... making it unreasonable to use in standing armies [because an army of super elite swordsmen is rare] and it costs too much material to make, look at its size, not to mention it would easily be damaged, and would be a pain to repair... Its just not logical.
Are dust piles logic?
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are dust piles weapons?
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Have you guys been reading anything I've said in this thread? :)
1. The weapon is going to be modified. For those who are unfamiliar with the definition of this word, "modified" involves changes. Changes, that I stated are meant to make the weapon more original and practical.
2. The weapon will probably be a lot smaller - closer to a dagger in size than a sword. For those who remember Demarthl (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/karyuu/fanart-project/demarthl.gif), his signature "cutters" are what I'm using as inspiration for the idea.
Is there anything more you guys would like to complain about?
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Have you guys been reading anything I've said in this thread? :)
1. The weapon is going to be modified. For those who are unfamiliar with the definition of this word, "modified" involves changes. Changes, that I stated are meant to make the weapon more original and practical.
2. The weapon will probably be a lot smaller - closer to a dagger in size than a sword. For those who remember Demarthl (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/karyuu/fanart-project/demarthl.gif), his signature "cutters" are what I'm using as inspiration for the idea.
Is there anything more you guys would like to complain about?
Yes I always have things to complain about, im a player from planeshift aren't I?
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Have you guys been reading anything I've said in this thread? :)
1. The weapon is going to be modified. For those who are unfamiliar with the definition of this word, "modified" involves changes. Changes, that I stated are meant to make the weapon more original and practical.
2. The weapon will probably be a lot smaller - closer to a dagger in size than a sword. For those who remember Demarthl (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/karyuu/fanart-project/demarthl.gif), his signature "cutters" are what I'm using as inspiration for the idea.
Is there anything more you guys would like to complain about?
Karyuu Our savior! \\o//
Edit: I mean, about those Cuttlers, just how i imaged them
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So its going to be like a spiky knuckle duster?
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::) I think a bit bigger, like a Wrist blade, hatchet or claw in Daiblo II? (http://www.diabloii.net/items/class-specific/asn-normal.shtml)
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Is there anything more you guys would like to complain about?
Yes, I always found those "cutters" a silly idea :p
To modify indeed means to introduce changes. However the definition doesn't cover words "for better". For this you use word "improve". However seeing as the whole concept is completely subjective, I don't see how anything in this thread implies our un-reading-ness of your posts, Karyuu.
Now, seeing as both the opening post and posts which we reply to contain the near-to-original idea of the Trekkie weapon, I find our comments on the usefulness of this item completely all right.
Once you "modify" the model at hand (and convince Talad to change the rules), feel free to bestow us with the results of those modifications so that armed with new postly strength we can complain about this new model as well.
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Wow Draklar, way to be a pain in the ass :)
Instead of being optimistic about possible changes in our rules and offering encouragement to both me and the original poster, you choose to be destructive in your wording. Whatever, your choice. But if this is the sort of attitude that will prevail in this thread and in whatever threads may follow, don't expect me to try again and again in "bestowing" the community.
Sometimes this place makes me wish I didn't have anything to do with it.
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(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/29/illyriapic2dm3.th.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=illyriapic2dm3.jpg) Draklar!
Did you just made Karyuu do a very bad wish!? (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4144/16be4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/7350/illyriabydevinesilenceqj8.jpg) (http://imageshack.us) That's very very very Bad! X-/
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You are so weird....
So very, very weird....
Anyways,
Kayruu, people on the forums (including *I*) are always major critics, though its not what we say or think that matters, its what the devs say and think that matters. Most importantly its what mr. T thinks and says.....
You do know I speak of Talad and not 'I pitty the fool!'... but hey, maybe they're one and the same. 'Welcome to planeshift! I pitty the fool who does not come to planeshift!'
why do I even bother?
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Don't mean to be rude here, Karyuu, but I believe you should step down from the defensive tone. Just a little bit.
I really don't see anything wrong with our comments in this thread, seeing as they're supported by (I think) valid arguments, as opposed to "OMG! sucks!" comments. You yourself don't intend to leave the weapon the way it is, so why are you bothered about it so much?
On the contrary don't you think your comment I quoted above could be taken at least as a little bit offensive? Personally I kind of felt it diminishing me to a moronic complainer, which I really hope I am not ;)
My further comment (which you apparently found outrageous) was sort of reply to your question. If you see us as people who do nothing but complain, we'll just do what I implied right there, right? :P
My last post wasn't meant to be taken all that seriously. I don't know whether I didn't make it clear enough or maybe it's just you who got a little too irritated. If it's the former, I have to apologise. If it's the latter, cheer up ;)
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Karryu. I think what you are trying to do is excelent and is somthing that would take planeshift on leaps and bounds but its the weapon in hand i question. I understand that to an extent this is a piolt sceem and I apprciate the effort the origanal poster has put into making this model but 'modify' is very vauge. You say smaller but I still dont see how that would be practical as a weapon either. Posting on an internet forum will always beg for people asking questions and moaning. There is a differnce between talking about a model someone has made and a model someone has made to go ingame. The texture needs to be greatly improved I think before it goes ingame and if it is on the forums for us to view and critisize can we know if it will be a sword, dagger or melle weapon?
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The texture needs to be greatly improved I think before it goes ingame and if it is on the forums for us to view and critisize can we know if it will be a sword, dagger or melle weapon?
It's a model, I don't think it's textured yet ;) But what difference will it make for you to know what kind of weapon it will be (under what category)? ::) Would you approve of it when you know it's going to be a dagger!? or a sword/melee weapon?
If that's the only complain. then why complain?
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Well what catagory it is under would give me an idea of how it is used and from that I could gauge its usfulness and, god forbid, offer some constructive critisim.
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I apologize for the previous tone of my posts :) I did let some irritation dictate it, which was my mistake. I however would much rather hear "Cool, we can try to contribute art now!" than a pessimistic "Yeah, try." I would also prefer to hear on ways to improve something rather than scrap it altogether, which this thread can basically be summarized with so far. Constructive criticism is not a list of faults alone - it's also a list of suggestions. (Suggestions that do not include "I'd rather have a sword.")
Make this into a challenge for yourself. Think of it as a project: you've been given a weapon design that looks awkward in practical terms. What changes would better it?
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@Karyuu: Gentar and UtM already said it all at the beginning of this thread. Sadly, all they said was ignored with simple "you guys are boring" ;)
Maybe it's true we don't provide an entartaining value on these boards, but none the less if you want constructive criticism, give a better heed to what we boring people say :P
Personally I think what I myself said could be also considered as help in improvement due to the fact it shows what exactly should be avoided when designing a new weapon. Now. As Moon said, keep it simple. Fancy-shmancy weapons tend to be very bulky and what follows - slow. Speed is prety much essential in most forms of medieval fighting. Well balanced sword can allow you to make stunts like this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=6jhDOPblXcA). Additionally it should be functional in much more realistic fights. Such as those (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-NDwxFpkdg) <-- Illyria, you watch this too. When you get someone to ground you don't actually sit onto him.
Personally I don't really fancy your "challange". Not because I don't wish to help, but because it leads this dialogue to such situation:
"But Karyuu... There's just no way to turn marshmallow into a lethal weapon..!"
"Silence! Find me a way to use it as a weapon of mass destruction!"
That's how I would summarise this thread anyway ;)
You didn't really give us much to work on. When designing weapon start by thinking how it should work, not how to make it look badass. And by the way, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3f-dCtaScc) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R28edh4cnXY) (gotta love that shield punch at end >.>) is what I would really call "badass" ;)
Otherwise there's really nothing we can do other than simply scrap it. If you want melee weapon, simplicity is again the key here. You could for example design a dual claw weapon, attached to the forearm with a strap and additionaly handled in the hand itself. Would be quite easy to handle, fast, good for parrying attacks and finally deal nice pierce damage. It wouldn't do well against shields but that's a common drawback when it comes to unarmed fighting. Slashing fist-fighting weapons are kind of useless, since more often than not punches you may deliver will work better when bludgeoning or piercing the enemy. My biggest objection with the cutters is the handling itself. If you'd hit something with thrusting punch, the weapon would slip out of the way. I try to imagine blocking, but it seems the weapon wouldn't be very wrist-friendly in this case as well.
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If people think that it should be scrapped, so be it :) Let's hope future models will be satisfying to everyone. Personally, I am really tired of "swords and axes" - so I hope the community can come up with something more interesting.
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>.>
<.<
Personally something like
(http://www.wowwiki.com/images/b/b0/IllidanTBCCinematic.jpg)
would be awsomeness untold :P
that or a pogostik that can be used as a crossbow? hum... >.>
SWORD CHUCKS YO!
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I would like to see some maces.
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To go on a less Planeshiftesque tangent. The actual modeling of the weapon seems pretty good.
As for the weapon itself, granted it would probably be ungainly to all who were not trained in it. But I can imagine it being quite deadly. It's only large drawback would be the weight.
It's a good defensive weapon with amazing countering abilities, although an offensive style would leave you amazingly open. Darth Maul's weapon (wow, bring Star Trek and Star wars together in one post...I feel cool) would have similar drawbacks as this weapon yet, in the hands of a master, it was outstanding.
As a generic weapon, this would not do. But, as one that would require great skill to merely weild...I can see that working.
@Draklar: Poison the marshmallow :P
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Seperot: Is that not a bit like the original weapon design? :] Looks like you'll have to battle with Draklar to convince him it'd be worth seeing in-game.
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Seperot: Is that not a bit like the original weapon design? :] Looks like you'll have to battle with Draklar to convince him it'd be worth seeing in-game.
::| I thought I had won that battle before it even started!
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but you havn't won the war yet. :P
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@Draklar: Poison the marshmallow :P
Genius!
Looks like you'll have to battle with Draklar to convince him it'd be worth seeing in-game.
I'm not sure actually. I'm not familiar with how daggers work and how curve-and-balancing is set to make the most our of it. But either way I don't know how well, but it should work. Would require lots of skill to wield it... and this actually brings up a problem. What skill would you put this under? Daggers? It's usage seems completely different. With the weapon brought up you have to be extremely careful not to jab yourself with the opposite blade. Enemy can easily use that so you really need to be ridiculously well trained in this thing.
Despite that it looks really expensive and hard to use, it might work. At least on the basis that it has something to damage enemy with and may be quite fast.
The problem is such unusual weapons don't fall under Planeshift's weapon skills, so that's where you may find the biggest problem.
@Illyria: You thought wrong.
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I'd add a blade on the front
and adding weapon skills isn't that hard, Draky-boy.
Least, as far as I know.
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and adding weapon skills aren't that hard, Draky-boy
Ohh, I want to see you convince Talad to add completely new weapon skill to the already existing ones just because of one single project. Keep the logs!
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Where would you categorize claw weapons? My guess would be "Knives & Daggers," but we're not so limited and rigid that we cannot adopt new skillsets. There's that pessimism again :) I don't consider this a problem at all.
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Maybe you player should have a certain amount of skills in every weapons class with blades (Daggers & knives, sword axe) to wield it?
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@Karyuu: Seperot's weapon doesn't look like a claw weapon. And anyway claws fall under unarmed. Using them is more akin to punching than thrusting blades.
...*bites his tongue*
@Illyria: Yeah, that's a good idea (to use several skills that is). In this case I'm thinking either daggers & knives + staves (don't know the actual cathegory), or daggers & knives + martial arts. It would make natural slow progress for the weapon either. Certainly thumbs up for that idea ;)
But anyway, damn you people for making me spam. I'm off.
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@Karyuu: Seperot's weapon doesn't look like a claw weapon.
I didn't say it was, I wanted to know what category claws fall into to see whether we'd need another skillset for such weapons too :)
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I didn't say it was, I wanted to know what category claws fall into to see whether we'd need another skillset for such weapons too :)
Why not melee?
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They fall under mellee surely? you use the same techniques as punching and slaping just do more damage with them.
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They fall under mellee surely? you use the same techniques as punching and slaping just do more damage with them.
Not really, when you 'hit' some one you kinda 'bounce off' (except Super fighters that can slam their hand through ones chest and rip a heart out :P ) if you know what i mean ;)
With this 'pointy' weapons you either miss, bounce off (on Heavy armor) or slash through/get stuck
So to fight heavy armor you have to know thingies about the little knifes and daggers (for the small holes you can stick it through, or tickle your opponent through them till they die/yield of laughing)
For the other armors (or none) You can either handle it like a knife (short pointy attacks) swords (more of a slashing attack) or an axes (dash and slash)
Of course a combo is possible ;)
Cause I don't see so much 'damaging' effect if you just punch and slap with it, I think a woman's hand is better for that kind of action :P
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Yes, in most all paper rpg's, claws are melee.
There are exceptions of course (ie. rpg's that have claws as a skill), but even so, melee modifies the skill as well. It could be as simple as +5 damage or a larger die roll, ie. instead of a 1d2 (punch) for a damage roll you'd get 1d3, 1d4, or 1d8 (think ulber sized animal as a 1d8 is same as a long sword) depending on the size of the clawed creature and your "to hit" roll would be based on your melee skill.
You also get your STR and DEX bonus most of the time, which can be advantagous too.
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now now childeren, lets all breath.... then you can buy me dinner.... or a beer.... or both....just buy me something or else your just being insulting >:|
anyways, them weapons are kinda different, and if were talking fighting styles then more so...
although i have to admit... in a fight i woulden't use em... i just think they look cool.... kinda like something i'd put on my wall...
there is a reason humans made swords and spears to kill each other with... there fairly good at doing it >.>
that being said it is a fantasy setting so small streches in reality in terms of combat should be ok :P
To sum up that random assortment of words im on the fence on this issue..
Also.. It be awsome if we had tanto's in the game... now thats a good weapon to fight with..
now who's gonna buy me a drink?
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It's believable that enkidukai developed their own style of martial arts that perfected combat with claws, so I think it would be ok to have claw weapons in the game and have them be competitive with swords etcetera.
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I disagree, Frankly I don't care if you're jackie chan, but if you go up against a full armored knight with a longsword and a broad sheild and you bring along a little knife, or claws etc etc, I think your pretty well screwed. The only way I could see the knife/claw guy winning is if the knight was like......duuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
But other wise if both fighters are near the same skill level, theres no chance a claw/dagger guy is going to "be competitive with swords"
Though enkis and klyros should get melee bonuses, because of the fact they both have claws (if not enki defninatly klyros, just look at those talons!)
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I disagree, Frankly I don't care if you're jackie chan, but if you go up against a full armored knight with a longsword and a broad sheild and you bring along a little knife, or claws etc etc, I think your pretty well screwed. The only way I could see the knife/claw guy winning is if the knight was like......duuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
Ehh You kinda run and jump around, spitting the knight in the face, making a big hysteria, wait till he is exhausted then try to tackle him.. kick the sword out of his hands :whistling: Do whatever you want with him, He ain't going to get up that fast ;)
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I disagree, Frankly I don't care if you're jackie chan, but if you go up against a full armored knight with a longsword and a broad sheild and you bring along a little knife, or claws etc etc, I think your pretty well screwed. The only way I could see the knife/claw guy winning is if the knight was like......duuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
But other wise if both fighters are near the same skill level, theres no chance a claw/dagger guy is going to "be competitive with swords"
Though enkis and klyros should get melee bonuses, because of the fact they both have claws (if not enki defninatly klyros, just look at those talons!)
(http://www.thottbot.com/?ss=215)
i would almost agree.... if your thinking lame small things :D
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I disagree, Frankly I don't care if you're jackie chan, but if you go up against a full armored knight with a longsword and a broad sheild and you bring along a little knife, or claws etc etc, I think your pretty well screwed. The only way I could see the knife/claw guy winning is if the knight was like......duuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.......
But other wise if both fighters are near the same skill level, theres no chance a claw/dagger guy is going to "be competitive with swords"
Though enkis and klyros should get melee bonuses, because of the fact they both have claws (if not enki defninatly klyros, just look at those talons!)
(http://www.thottbot.com/?ss=215)
i would almost agree.... if your thinking lame small things :D
one word... yikes...
and to the weird fenki lady who talks to apples...
Have you ever watched the movie braveheart? Im not talking about fully plated knights, im talking about chainmail, battle hardened warriors who can, in one swing, kill a man, no, not with a neck slice, but with a torso strike. A dagger or claw sort of weaponry requires many well placed hits to take an opponet down, let alone an armored opponet.
All it takes is one hit from a sword to kill you, while a dagger/knife/claw may take several hits, and who says a knight can't dodge as well as a skirmisher?
My only point is, daggers and claws don't actually meet the mark against a swordsman, or an axeman, or a maceman, other wise history would have shown armies of guys with little daggers stabbing each other rather then groups of guys with big swords stabing each other...
(Before you ask, yes, I hate knives & dagger users...)
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a full armored knight with a longsword and a broad sheild and you bring along a little knife.
:whistling: Sounds not like braveheart
And Dagger as a bit bigger then knifes :
http://images.google.nl/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=nl&q=dagger&btnG=Afbeeldingen+zoeken
And she doesn't 'talk' to apples, she just prepares them to be eaten
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err i also just noticed... when i said tanto i was thinking
(http://images.quizilla.com/C/Corinababy14/1060993356_Picssun_ce.jpg)
like them... not the small japanese dagger thing....
also Earl_Listbard thats nice they where used in armys... however this is small groups of adventures in a fantasy game... in this kind of battlefeild more weapons can be used to a good effect... a guy may be wearing plate but if you sneak up behind em and pull there neck up so the joint in the plate opens up.. hey presto neck wound :D
that sort of thing was not quite so easy on a battlefield so thats why you never saw them used :)
Daggers may be small but damn can they get them tought to hit spots a big ol sword cant get ^^
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True, but try assassination with a claymore :P
(Dynasty warriors \o/)
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fair enough...
Allow me to make this simple then.
Soldier 1 Soldier 2
o|-- -----|o
(armed with a dagger {|--}) (armed with a basic steel sword {-----|})
if they both charge each other, and engage in combat, who will be able to hit first, baised on having the longer weapon and thus not having to be as close to the enemy to attack?
Thus, who is more likely to make a sucessful hit?
And, considering the length of the actual blade, and the depth of the penitration baised on the entire size of the blade whos more likely to do more damage with their blade?
Now let us consider, the fact that in ps (and this really PMO alot here) that daggers hit at the same range as a-... well thats a different rant.... Point is in no way does a dagger, due to its range, have a chance against a sword, due to its range.... unless there is a signifficant skill differeance. AND theoretically speaking no dagger should be able to hit for a damage number above 80, unless critical, due to the length of the blade itself only being able to reach so far into the flesh and thats if its a stab which is easily dodgeable, most attacks are a slash which only cuts, and due to the daggers size we're not talking that big of a cut. (just look at the size of our daggers, they're like toothpicks.)
*EL rests his case*
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You're only talking about war. Fights really aren't the way you seem to picture them.
I've been in fights before, I've wanted guns and daggers. Never have I thought "Hmm, a big freaking sword would be awesome right now".
If you add in armor, sure, sword wins. Otherwise it's a surprisingly close battle, dependent only on how close the dagger weilder can get.
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Heh, if your foolish enough to charge with a dagger you deserve death.
my point was that most battle lines are not so basic as
"I r a person i r going to attack you!"
"I r too a person and i will attack you back!"
alot of fights (more ones i'd personally start) would be things like ambush attacks and such... things where a small blade proves a much swifter killing tool :)
Obviously this is hard to put into a game like planeshift so... they took the lazy way and made them equal... :P
anyways we have far digressed from the point.
Make me a weapon like that picture... actuall changing the stick bit for a blade could be cool too....
I should learn 3d stuff >.>
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Iago seemed to do pretty well with daggers.
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Ehh A dagger in ya stomach is kinda as deathly as a sword...
And Daggers&knives is ANOTHER skill, so they don't fight the same as swords, and a smart dagger users has a lot of agility ;) You know Like instead of thinking you can hold the sowrd of the opponent, just duck or move a bit :detective:
One short at the swords holders arm and ouchy he let's go (cause a sword is more heavier and with a few finger less it become very heavy quickly) ;)
I've never seen a fully armored knight fighting with a dagger (except in Oblivion :P).
Also consider that if A swords misses, it takes longer to swing/stab again, dagger mover quicker...
But what are you saying? We should have this new blade and neither dagger and knivers Cause you can't understand they can kiil someone with a sword?
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No, im just terribly off topic because what zanz said got me started on my rant on how daggers are superior in ps but really shouldent be in attack power, or in range, and that dagger users should have to be practically touching their target to attack (Like 1 to 2 or 3 feet away at the most) while longswords and claymores should be able to hit from a much farther distance.
Back on topic:
The blade looks cool, karyuu already said they will modify it as nessasary, and it will probaly be a melee weapon. Great, joy, warm and toasties all around...
And, I still hate daggers...
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fair enough...
Allow me to make this simple then.
Soldier 1 Soldier 2
o|-- -----|o
(armed with a dagger {|--}) (armed with a basic steel sword {-----|})
if they both charge each other, and engage in combat, who will be able to hit first, baised on having the longer weapon and thus not having to be as close to the enemy to attack?
Thus, who is more likely to make a sucessful hit?
And, considering the length of the actual blade, and the depth of the penitration baised on the entire size of the blade whos more likely to do more damage with their blade?
Now let us consider, the fact that in ps (and this really PMO alot here) that daggers hit at the same range as a-... well thats a different rant.... Point is in no way does a dagger, due to its range, have a chance against a sword, due to its range.... unless there is a signifficant skill differeance. AND theoretically speaking no dagger should be able to hit for a damage number above 80, unless critical, due to the length of the blade itself only being able to reach so far into the flesh and thats if its a stab which is easily dodgeable, most attacks are a slash which only cuts, and due to the daggers size we're not talking that big of a cut. (just look at the size of our daggers, they're like toothpicks.)
*EL rests his case*
I don't know why I'm letting myself be dragged into this....
Yes a sword has an advantage over a dagger, but that doesn't mean sword boy wins. There are too many variables (like type of armor the fighters are wearing, etc.) to make a cut 'n dry "sword wins" assumption. The same is to be said for claws. Let's see... you are in full plate and horseback riding along a path in the Indian jungle region. Suddenly a tiger pounces on you. You and your horse are probably din'din for good ol' mista tiger. Hell, I wouldn't want to go up against a tiger in one on one combat. And plate just isn't my first choice for being lightweight and mobile. It's more like lumbering around in a pipe only not as much protection. A skilled dagger user, could very quickly dispatch a sword weilder. There are lots of places that a daggers blade will fit through very readily. And one thing you forget, a dagger can be thrown...
Soldier 1 Soldier 2
................................o|-- -----|o
(armed with a dagger {|--}) (armed with a basic steel sword {-----|})
...greatly increasing it's range.
Skill, speed, and agility are usually the definition of "the winner".
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the sword and would only use a dagger in "emergencies"; but to argue "mine's bigger, I win" is over simplification of the situation.
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Touche...
But like I (think) I pointed out earlier, dagger only wins if it has the upper hand in skill or ambush, but when the tables are turnned, so does the sword. I would also like to point out, yes daggers can be thrown, but are also, not a gaurentueed hit, ecspecially at a longer distance. And thats if you're an expert, most dagger fighters can't throw a blade with 70% accuracy over a length of 5 yards.
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I don't know why I'm letting myself be dragged into this....
And one thing you forget, a dagger can be thrown...
Soldier 1 Soldier 2
................................o|-- -----|o
(armed with a dagger {|--}) (armed with a basic steel sword {-----|})
...greatly increasing it's range.
Skill, speed, and agility are usually the definition of "the winner".
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the sword and would only use a dagger in "emergencies"; but to argue "mine's bigger, I win" is over simplification of the situation.
Daggers can beat even submachineguns and pistols :woot: ... if you have a really tough Kevlar suit and superhuman resistance... or if "you are an idea", as "ideas are bulletproof"(Also an example of what a master in daggers would be able to do):
Minor Spoiler Example on a V scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSwOaYngGVc) (Minor spoiler because the said movie isn't focused on action and the scene isn't so great)
Of course, in normal situations involving two equally skilled fighters this won't usually happen. Except if:
Rogue A Soldier B
o|-- o|------
*sneaks on Soldier B and backstabs the same.
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In close quarters, knives are more dangerous than guns. Gun tend to miss their target, and knives are much quicker on the draw.
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here is my new model:
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/622539
salute
Piemont
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Looks like something you would wear across your knuckles now :) Especially if you widen the opening for the hand. I would also suggest to decrease the thickness of the blades themselves, since they look too blunt to do much slashing damage. You can collapse the polys to a single point.
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At least I'm not the only one who thought they looked blunt. \o/
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Just a suggestion, since it is one-handed now, perhaps a "crescent moon" shape would be more appropriate?
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here it is:
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/622798
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it's....
well to be honest its a bit plain and dull :/
you should style it more it be cool... like bend the outside bits so they curve more... plus that will give it more of a defence as well as adding coolness..
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It looks somewhat more sensible than the original concept, but it's still too "all around" to stand against functionality of simpler weapons.
Now, going back to the claw discussion, this is what (more or less) I had on mind:
(http://www.warriorquest.com/torashuko2.jpg)
The above is called Shuko. In my idea it was supposed to be like that, only with two claws (though three is as good if not better) and additionally it was meant to have addition of vambrace, such as this one:
(http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/UVMaps/UVMapImages/UVTut4/VambraceRender.jpg)
that would extend onto back of the hand for better holding. Though again, probably it could do without it.
And as many people said, yes - obviously it would be melee.
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Keep experimenting with it, Piemont.
I've never liked claw weapons to be honest, always worried about my fingers getting cut off. All the same, I'm pretty sure most people would love to see them ingame.
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wow, youre good. but the stance and animations for the weapon..were talking a whole new weapon class (i think) although, it could merely be a sword with slightly different stance
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here is my first art for planeshift, looks like a gondorian.
http://www.badongo.com/de/pic/632686
greetings Piemont