PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: globokilla on June 19, 2007, 06:35:37 am
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those who love politics meet me globocop in the tavern to decide the fate of the city :surrender: ;D \\o//
every saturday at 1pm are time has come
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I don't think you have any power to decide the fate of any city... :) Hydlaa has guards employed via the official government already.
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Many look foolishly to extend the 4X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X) desires in a MMO environment potentially intended to make all as powerless chit-chatters and have 100% of control over it by its own creators.
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soon very soon the city will be ares
countdown to v-y day
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I think I will enjoy ignoring your wanna-be revolution.
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I love this guy. His posts always brighten up my day.
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every saturday at 1pm
you do realise that there are 24 times during the day that it is 1 p.m. right?
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Even more, neko. There even exist some time zones with 30min additional difference.
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Hehem i was just going to say it, Gag ;)
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I suppose everyone here would love to join the secret meetings, but unfortunately no one will know IC about them. Did you know the rats in the sewers are in fact players? ;D
I'm sure you can talk to them ;). By the way, I heard GMs and all others who matter in this game have a rat-character, so talking to them is really worth your time.
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I suppose everyone here would love to join the secret meetings, but unfortunately no one will know IC about them. Did you know the rats in the sewers are in fact players? ;D
I'm sure you can talk to them ;). By the way, I heard GMs and all others who matter in this game have a rat-character, so talking to them is really worth your time.
really? I am abashed. ;)
btw. globokilla, I don't want to pop your bubble, but posting information about a secret meeting in public places seems kinda backwards.
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Don't you fools get it! By posting informations about a SECRET meeting in a public place, he is going to have us all rush there to find out! All the while he plants many bombs and other such devices around the city so that when we come back he can detonate them and take complete control!
IM NOT CRAZY!
I'M NoT CrAzY
AHH
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...
what?
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Why do you need a secret meeting why don't you just talk with everybody by harns or something. This sounds to complicated.
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Many look foolishly to extend the 4X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X) desires in a MMO environment potentially intended to make all as powerless chit-chatters and have 100% of control over it by its own creators.
Some people seem paranoid to give players more power to affect the world. Afraid of how people will use it?
Who is the one who wants to control everything surrounding him more I wonder. The one wanting to be able to change some things or the one not trusting others with that mundane power.
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Sounds like revolutionarys at work. ;D
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Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.
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He'll return, no worries.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28439.msg327108#msg327108
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Ah yes, they always do.
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Many look foolishly to extend the 4X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X) desires in a MMO environment potentially intended to make all as powerless chit-chatters and have 100% of control over it by its own creators.
Some people seem paranoid to give players more power to affect the world. Afraid of how people will use it?
Who is the one who wants to control everything surrounding him more I wonder. The one wanting to be able to change some things or the one not trusting others with that mundane power.
Devs want to control the game they're creating. Congrats, mystery solved.
You have just received 200 experience points, 50 Tria and 5 faction points for Conspiracy Nut.
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Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.
'Feels like the good ol' days again.
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Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.
'Feels like the good ol' days again.
Likely to exist a cabal of people conspiring to scare away noobs from PlaneShift and to ressurrect the l33t Vampire Hunterlords under the leadership of the ub3r-w3rri0r globokilla and his r0x character RobocopGloboCop :whistling:
Many look foolishly to extend the 4X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4X) desires in a MMO environment potentially intended to make all as powerless chit-chatters and have 100% of control over it by its own creators.
Some people seem paranoid to give players more power to affect the world. Afraid of how people will use it?
Who is the one who wants to control everything surrounding him more I wonder. The one wanting to be able to change some things or the one not trusting others with that mundane power.
Devs want to control the game they're creating. Congrats, mystery solved.
You have just received 200 experience points, 50 Tria and 5 faction points for Conspiracy Nut.
Yes, and Atomic Blue is a shell organization for the Illuminati >o)
Nah, depends on the kind of control. A control to don't permit people to make characters walking with cell phones in their descriptions or sponsoring racial wars is one thing, a control to block the future masonry skill to all but GMs instead of opening them to the appropriate areas for construction for all players is another(this last example won't happen of course, or there wouldn't be any sense at all on having planned a masonry skill). But a MMORPG should be open to good influences of players on its world.
P.S.: Wait? "Polotics" and "porody (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28936.0)"? I think I know who might be behind this joke... :whistling:
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Hmm. Looks like we have chased away another newcomer. Congratulations folks.
'Feels like the good ol' days again.
Likely to exist a cabal of people conspiring to scare away noobs from PlaneShift and to ressurrect the l33t Vampire Hunterlords under the leadership of the ub3r-w3rri0r globokilla and his r0x character RobocopGloboCop :whistling:
It was all the 'good' oldbie guilds who did all the newbie flame ripping every time a new guild/org popped up ;P
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But a MMORPG should be open to good influences of players on its world.
We seem to have differences on a linguistic level. I for one don't see "to control" and "to influence" as close synonyms.
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We seem to have differences on a linguistic level. I for one don't see "to control" and "to influence" as close synonyms.
That shows you haven't been reading the previous posts in this thread to carefully then as players influencing the world or the lack there of was the whole point :P
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We seem to have differences on a linguistic level. I for one don't see "to control" and "to influence" as close synonyms.
That shows you haven't been reading the previous posts in this thread to carefully then as players influencing the world or the lack there of was the whole point :P
those who love politics meet me globocop in the tavern to decide the fate of the city
-- opening post
Expand means the player adds more territory under their control.
-- from Raleigh's link.
I haven't been reading?
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Nah, depends on the kind of control
No you haven't. It's nitpicking at best.
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So I am both nitpicking and not reading carefully at the same time? I admit, I am a man full of paradoxes.
If you can explain to me how the opening post (as well as "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate") implies mere influence (and not control at all), feel free to do so.
Two things:
1) If you're not talking about controlling, you're way off topic in this thread.
2) Even if players won't be allowed to control the world, this doesn't rule out possibility of influence. Which makes your criticizm unjustified.
P.S. The "control" from the post you quoted refers to devs, not players. But oh, I am nitpicking again.
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... I am a man full of paradoxes.
I agree.
On a more serious note: Player-side influence is a ambiguous matter. On the one hand there are bright individuals whose contribution would bring a great benefit for both the community and the project. On the other hand, however, there is a major group who just lack the insight and focus to add in worthwhile contributions, and in the worst case harm the community or the project with their actions. I bet I don't have to talk about individuals who knowingly and voluntarily disrupt the gaming experience of those around them. The more influence or control players are granted, the more likely incidents will happen in which this influence and control are misused, or used in a way that is harmful to the community or the project.
"Just implementing some system that gives the players more control" isn't only a difficile matter in terms of coding or setting, it's always a tightrope walk between granting the players enough influence to be able to bring worthwhile contributions and giving them the power to disrupt the gameplay.
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I fully agree with the post above.
However, I think it would be reasonable to allow some sort of influence through "controlled" GM events, where different characters could end an epic adventure in different ways.
That's how RPG should be anyway. Role-playing games aren't really about being a mighty politician deciding about the fate of the world. You have Civilization-styled games for that.
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But the thirst for glory and knowledge has no boundaries. Beyond Yliakum, concealed by the Bronze Doors, the Stone Labyrinths, the unknown Kadaikos, homeland of Lemurs, and the legendary Pradesha - ruled by the enlightened Ahrijani - wait to be discovered. And much more...
First, thing, when I mentioned the good influences of players, I meant control in a more local level rather than absolute. Large private properties for example. And of course, cities beyond the borders of Yliakum and of the civilized world. Or will never be supported the aspirations of guilds like mine and The Survivors of Vaern through implementation of masonry among other skills? I don't think so.
The quoted text from the Settings page suggests something entirely different as well. As I already said, I'm against a unrealistically static world, and most of the MMO"RP"Gs are like that, but this doesn't solve the "1337" syndrome either in them and there are hundreds of griefers over there. It is clearly suggested that there will be vast "no man's lands" for those crazy and daring enough to attempt to control. Influence of Yliakum through GM Events? Perhaps, but an in-game system might to the trick as well. Control of vast uncivilized territories by the devs, blocking any attempts of expansion there in the future? Definitively not. However, it is already possible to deal with griefers, and any feature that allows power, even the possibility of duelling in a full PvP area, gives space for griefers. So it's a question of whether taking down everything to prevent griefing or adding new interesting features knowing that griefers will be dealt with later anyway.
That's how RPG should be anyway. Role-playing games aren't really about being a mighty politician deciding about the fate of the world. You have Civilization-styled games for that.
I would give my kingdom for a MMO 4X game (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=20612.msg314362#msg314362) ;P
But you should be able to become a small landowner deciding the fate of your property, a businessman trying to make some profit, a small stone labyrinth outpost leader trying to struggle for the survival over its harsh conditions and so on. Control on a more local level always brings interesting perspectives. Control of the devs should be reactive rather than limiting possibilities for the nice players because of the bad ones, to take down griefers exploiting the systems then, and of course, nothing a /report from a player wouldn't fix as well.
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Raleigh... Why on earth are you arguing with me over stuff I'm not talking about?
Post in Wishlist, I don't know. My references go to the opening post.
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So I am both nitpicking and not reading carefully at the same time? I admit, I am a man full of paradoxes.
If you can explain to me how the opening post (as well as "eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate") implies mere influence (and not control at all), feel free to do so.
Two things:
1) If you're not talking about controlling, you're way off topic in this thread.
2) Even if players won't be allowed to control the world, this doesn't rule out possibility of influence. Which makes your criticizm unjustified.
P.S. The "control" from the post you quoted refers to devs, not players. But oh, I am nitpicking again.
100% of control over it by its own creators.
The first post implies that if you would meet at the tavern the fate of the world would be decided. In the replies many say this is ludicruos for two reasons. One being the "secret" meaning. Two being the fact players don't have that kind of influence becuase the DEVS are controlling everything. The referance of Raleigh is pointed at the fact that the devs are keeping all the control themselves.
So are you misreading? Uhm yeah. Are you nitpicking? In my opinion you aren't becuase you are simply wrong, but if you weren't it would be nitpicking becuase the poster who used the word obviously ment something else then you are trying to make him say. Reading isn't just looking at the literal meaning of a word but also put it in context and look what the person who wrote it ment.
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No one takes influence away from players.
Control (as assumed by Raleigh -- 4X) most likely won't be possible.
Whine all you want, but you just criticized devs for the first, because of the second. Look at the post you quoted. Consider that maybe... Oh, just maybe! You are the one in the wrong.
Some sort of influence through adventurous actions - possibly.
Control over cities and strategy-styled land-controlling - most likely no.
And if you think devs are paranoic, because they don't want to turn PS into a strategy game... well, that's your problem.
This (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=20612.msg314362#msg314362) is the context Raleigh spoke in and it isn't Planeshift.
Later the discussion changed both content and vocabulary wise to support previous statement (which logically isn't associated with what followed). And that my dear lady is to be considered a logical fallacy. Either Ignoratio elenchi or red herring.
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No one takes influence away from players.
Control (as assumed by Raleigh -- 4X) most likely won't be possible.
Whine all you want, but you just criticized devs for the first, because of the second. Look at the post you quoted. Consider that maybe... Oh, just maybe! You are the one in the wrong.
Some sort of influence through adventurous actions - possibly.
Control over cities and strategy-styled land-controlling - most likely no.
And if you think devs are paranoic, because they don't want to turn PS into a strategy game... well, that's your problem.
This (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=20612.msg314362#msg314362) is the context Raleigh spoke in and it isn't Planeshift.
Later the discussion changed both content and vocabulary wise to support previous statement (which logically isn't associated with what followed). And that my dear lady is to be considered a logical fallacy. Either Ignoratio elenchi or red herring.
A logical fallacy used to accuse others to commit logical fallacies, how ironic. Now you put words in my mouth to claim I want PS to become a strategy game.
Unlike what you want to imply, that link was referring to what I dreamed as the "greatest game idea if it was possible", not of what I want PlaneShift to become. In fact, if you pay attention to the rest of the thread, I support player control, yes, but on a local level for things like business, small villages, private properties and so on, not nation-wide government. If you think this kind of players control is bad, then guilds are next to useless In-character for anything but associations of friends and "helping newbies". I know adventures are an interesting element of any RPG, but it is not the only one. Having opportunities to people open business or settle villages won't make of PlaneShift a strategy game, and who said it must be strategy-style control? Think big, PlaneShift isn't as conflicting and brutal as other scenarios where adventures are much wider like for example the D&D Toril's Moonsea or Thay, and through businesses and limited land control other forms of challenges besides combat and "dungeon crawling" become possible.
Lastly, I don't think a MMORPG will ever be able to compete in the fun-factor and history(not the background Settings, but what happens to the characters, the plot line) with a great Single-player Computer RPG or oldschool PnP, due to the obvious fact that with smaller numbers of PCs, they can do much more interesting things while being realistic than with larger ones, where many times PCs are delegated to tasks usually filled by NPCs in other types of RPG( 1 player may be one who will become a great hero in the end of the plot, 4 could make a great adventuring party, but what about 200 or 1000?), unless it presents possibilities for the players to shape the world with their characters and to a certain extent, control some things through additions to the already existing things(New villages in uncivilized lands, new businesses, etc.) instead of modifications to the already existing(NPC and Settings present organizations, etc.). And what you desire is not only something that I fully disagree with, because adventuring in the same level of PnP or SP RPGs is impossible, but also something that certain guilds wouldn't like at all. Or would you find it realistic to have hundreds of different adventurers, instead of some adventurers and some people inside guilds with some small control over some things?
And I wasn't criticizing the devs with the first post, I was just pointing something to show that some people not only want to go too far, but also to achieve things without any effort at all, that's why I mentioned the "4X" first, because of course, a single character deciding the future of Yliakum is ridiculous(Only in 4X you already "RP" a great leader). In fact, now I think I should've used another link instead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_of_the_United_States). Of course if this was the intention of this "secret meeting", as an IC kind of joke based on a nutcase type of character, like this one (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=25642.msg332528#msg332528), then it would be different, but still seems to be some kind of OOC joke... as I mentioned before but was swollen...
P.S.: Wait? "Polotics" and "porody (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28936.0)"? I think I know who might be behind this joke... :whistling:
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Hmm, no, this argument is stupid.
Dude, you said devs want to have 100% control by making players powerless chit-chatters (maybe the first; second - false accusation).
The accusation was sarcastic and most certainly uncalled for. Same with following accusation (not from you) about devs being paranoid.
No one ever said minor control won't be possible (we already have guilds, so I think that should get rid of comments like that). Perhaps not the major.
You may say truth, or you may lie. The thing is with the sarcasm in your initial post, I don't really buy what you say. So here's the thing:
If you have some ideas about the former - post in Wishlist.
If you have something against the latter - either keep it to yourself or post something constructive to change it.
Sarcastic comments like the aforementioned "powerless chit-chatters" or comments about paranoia aren't constructive. Savvy?
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Is Suvok the only one who wonders how this post has degenerated to this?
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Is Suvok the only one who wonders how this post has degenerated to this?
nope