PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jeraphon on July 17, 2007, 10:43:44 pm
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We've heard it from countless people. "Man, are NPCs dumb." Well, folks, guess what. We're working to fix that - one NPC at a time.
Helping out settings is as easy as 1-2-3.
1) Pick any NPC you want. It can be a vital one (eg Harnquist,) an important one (eg Amidison) or a relatively overlooked one (eg Narwin Molstagh.) Everyone has a favourite NPC, even if it's not a popular one.
2) Talk to them with TEN phrases. That's all I want for now: ten. I think it's a number that's not overbearing for a player. Try to pick phrases you think this NPC are likely to be asked. Playing "gotcha" or tricking them isn't the point: the point is getting information or things about their character from them.
3) If the NPC doesn't understand your phrases, or you find their answer woefully unsatisfactory (for example, a brewer tell you he buys beer if you ask him about work) just copy down the unsatisfactory phrases you used EXACTLY as you wrote them, and PM them to me (be sure to include the NPC name.) - Heck, you can even show me the phrases you used that work correctly if you do a full set of ten. That's actually helpful as well, in terms of seeing what players are asking the NPCs in case I want to add that info to others.
And that's it! Leave their answers to me.
Thanks.
Lots and lots of NPCs have benefitted from your "top tens," folks. I'm removing the list just because I've forgotten to continue updating it. But don't think by any means that I'm not still updating them, so keep on sending!
*Note: I would prefer that you ask the NPCs questions outside the scope of their quests. What I'm focussing on right now is general knowledge, not quest dialogue, because they are two very different things.
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Wow, this sounds quite awesome, but does it get to the point where the NPC's might do something rather rash?
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Do something rash? I'm not sure what you mean. We're just trying to get to the point where the NPCs cover the basics (and maybe the intermediates) of things they're most likely to be asked.
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Ahem, now THERE is an idea.... Ask a npc the same thing too many times, or continuously say phrases he can't respond to and he/she starts to give irritated responses. ;D (think starcraft/warcraft when you continuously click on the same unit...)
Sorry for posting on the sticky, but since we were on the subject here I thought it would be a good idea to just bring up the thought. ;)
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^ Or like Postal² - quick-saving too often: "My granny could beat that game by saving so often".
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Why not have the system record phrases that NPCs don’t under stand in the game?
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that could be a nightmare because there are so many of them...plus you get the people who get frustrated when they NPC doesnt know what they are talking about and spouting obscene things "What do you mean you dont know what im saying, Allelia!?!?! *insert stream of profanity*" Maybe log just the common questions........or....you could just pm Jeraphon ;)
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Why not have the system record phrases that NPCs don’t under stand in the game?
We do. Unfortunately, it's lost with every restart. So it's likely that if I went around, I could find several NPCs that have no misunderstood phrases because nobody's spoken to them since the last restart. In addition, a large majority of the things spoken to NPCs is within a quest context. Most people don't talk to NPCs "just because." Just reading the forums and seeing people asking for help when NPCs know the answers is proof enough of that. That's why I want your help: to make it easy for players to speak to NPCs and use them as not only a source of game information but also interesting settings tidbits, outside of quests.
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That would possibly require a database table to store such responses: Char / NPC / Expected quest and position (or "nothing").
Database changes. Happen "later (tm)".
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Hiacheius Dilech
if you talk to him says he works on the waterwheel bt if you ask him"about water wheel" who has no idea, i think he should know about what the waterwheel is doing is it generating power? and what all this power been used for?
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You asked about "water wheel" (separated)? Try again with "waterwheel" (connected)?
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It would be... interresting if they would've had such a good AI as Alan from A-I.com wouldn't it?
P.S. I'm new :sorcerer:
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New? - Newbie! Newbie! Alarm! ;)
Welcome.
And ... well: An A.I. has to be programmed. By natural intelligence.
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Hiacheius Dilech
if you talk to him says he works on the waterwheel bt if you ask him"about water wheel" who has no idea, i think he should know about what the waterwheel is doing is it generating power? and what all this power been used for?
Ask him some other stuff and pm me a top ten. I'll get right on it. :)
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Yes I know, and that's the biggest problem ^^, maby a bit less advanced, but it still would be cool wouldn't it? ^^, btw, If I can remember right, you can somehow see it's codes and stuff, just talk to alan and ask for the advanced log, or look somewere on the, btw, that AI can also understand words with spelling errors :woot: ???
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Frilaa Bhundri
Ask her in Hydlaa "tell me about vigesimi" and she will ask if you want to know about a specific one. When you name one, like "tell me about amidison", she has no idea what you said.
I don't know if this is true with all NPCs or specific only to her.
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I'll look into that soon. Expect more info about the 20 vigesimi of the Dome to be forthcoming. For a teaser, you can go straight to the source to ask about vigesimi :detective:
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trasok this guy knows where he is and that is about it should he not know the other merchants in town since he is the only smith in oja? I would think that he should be able to tell you where they are and what they do? also should he not know how to get to the iron mine and the coal mine? I guess all ncps should know the others that they would deal with.
also trasok talks like one of the enki he keeps callin you tabei. It just does not sound right coming from a dwarf
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also trasok talks like one of the enki he keeps callin you tabei. It just does not sound right coming from a dwarf
Just writing that I confirm Trasok uses the same stock phrases that Darkmoon wrote a few ages ago. Also, asking him to "tell me about akkaio" will get him to refer to his smithy in the third person. Is the name of Trasok's shop called Trasok's Smithy or Master Blades? As I recall, it has been called Trasok's Smithy ever since NPCs started talking about locations.
...since he is the only smith in oja?
Spoiler: No he isn't.
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ok but he is the only one with a forge
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I guess all ncps should know the others that they would deal with.
You're right, but not all NPCs will have the inclination to tell you about them. I'm working on a workaround that should be a good compromise, but it'll take some time. I'll keep you updated.
If you can PM me some logs regarding Trasok's calling the PC 'tabei', I'd appreciate it. I've been meaning to squash that.
To be perfectly accurate, it'd be best to say that Trasok is currently the only smith in Dsar Akkaio with an accessible public forge. That may change once the Steel Bazaar opens. :)
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As brought up on another thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31301.msg360295#msg360295), Jayose should be able to talk about Arion since the two obviously know each other.
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As brought up on another thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31301.msg360295#msg360295), Jayose should be able to talk about Arion since the two obviously know each other.
Fixed pending restart.
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The smith in the tutorial should understand "right" in reply to "your name is <name>, correct?"
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can I just say something here... While I can admire the efforts of what your trying to do here, I think you guys can already see that makeing a response for the some quajillion-billion combination of words is impossible in your lifetime. Why not integrate an freeware NLP (natural language processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language_processing) library into the game for use by NPC's? Combine that with some text to speech and speech to text conversion libraries and you will have the most advanced NPC's ever where people can just plug in thier mics and actually talk to the NPC's like the way it should be.
as a bonus you could also keep the sentence reconizing for quests and such too.
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If it was that easy, it would have been done by now. The problem with those is they have many words that do not fit in Yliakum, such as pizza or skyscraper.
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can I just say something here... While I can admire the efforts of what your trying to do here, I think you guys can already see that makeing a response for the some quajillion-billion combination of words is impossible in your lifetime. Why not integrate an freeware NLP (natural language processor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_language_processing) library into the game for use by NPC's? Combine that with some text to speech and speech to text conversion libraries and you will have the most advanced NPC's ever where people can just plug in thier mics and actually talk to the NPC's like the way it should be.
as a bonus you could also keep the sentence reconizing for quests and such too.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24686.0
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The fanatics in the sewers, many wont respond to the question "Where am I?"
And unlike most npcs many (not all of them) don't have a response to an incorrect entry, IE: "Sorry, what?" "I don't understand." "Try using other words."
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The fanatics in the sewers, many wont respond to the question "Where am I?"
We're aware of the situation with the fanatics. They'll get theirs in time, but most people tend not to speak with them because they'd rather just kill them. :)
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here is something I took out of my log it could be me asking the questions wrong or it is the NPC you be the Judge
(19:26:55) Soylentshadow says: do you need help
(19:26:57) Nyshyn Klannarr says: Graa...
(19:27:02) -Nyshyn growls to herself as she brushes gently at a corroded lump of metal shrouded in dried mud. She mutters as she works.-
(19:27:08) Nyshyn Klannarr says: I am so angry... every time I turn around it's some idiot or other making trouble that needn't exist, only to serve his own selfish idiot interests. Mikana the moron, cursed Kisatol!
(19:27:14) -Nyshyn abruptly drops the lump and kicks it, making a face as she hurts her foot in the process. She watches it roll away and curses energetically under her breath.-
(19:27:16) Nyshyn Klannarr says: You want something from me, do you?
(19:28:09) Soylentshadow says: what do you have?
(19:28:11) Nyshyn Klannarr says: You're going to have to be more specific than that.
(19:28:27) Soylentshadow says: quest?
(19:28:29) Nyshyn Klannarr says: What do you mean?
(19:28:41) Soylentshadow says: do you have a quest for me
(19:28:43) Nyshyn Klannarr says: Give you what? Can you be more specific?
(19:29:03) Soylentshadow says: can I help you
(19:29:05) Nyshyn Klannarr says: Graa...
(19:29:10) -Nyshyn growls to herself as she brushes gently at a corroded lump of metal shrouded in dried mud. She mutters as she works.-
(19:29:16) Nyshyn Klannarr says: I am so angry... every time I turn around it's some idiot or other making trouble that needn't exist, only to serve his own selfish idiot interests. Mikana the moron, cursed Kisatol!
(19:29:22) -Nyshyn abruptly drops the lump and kicks it, making a face as she hurts her foot in the process. She watches it roll away and curses energetically under her breath.-
(19:29:24) Nyshyn Klannarr says: You want something from me, do you?
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here is something I took out of my log it could be me asking the questions wrong or it is the NPC you be the Judge
(19:26:55) Soylentshadow says: do you need help
(19:27:16) Nyshyn Klannarr says: You want something from me, do you?
you had to say "yes" :)
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oh well that makes sense :-[
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here is something I took out of my log it could be me asking the questions wrong or it is the NPC you be the Judge
(19:27:16) Nyshyn Klannarr says: You want something from me, do you?
(19:28:09) Soylentshadow says: what do you have?
Put yourself in the shoes of Nyshyn for a moment. She's busy examining artifacts and ruins with a specific purpose in mind. [ Once you dig into the Yliakum settings a little, you'll realize that what she does is crucial to her existance, even her sister follows the exact same path. ]
You walk up, disrupt her tedious work and proceed to demand she tell you what she has available. I doubt she'll start giving you a breakdown of the contents in her inventory or give you the choice of what you shall do in order to satisfy *your* desires. Would it make sense that she should respond to the last question above if you were to respond with "maybe"?
Perhaps you might consider that in fact its your character that might serve her, assuming you provide a clear intention that you are interested. Imagine the nightmare, given the dialog above, if she *did* only respond to the key phrase "what do you have?".
If i ask you "do you understand what i'm trying to say with this comment?" and you respond something else than yes or no, you can expect me to follow your response, i'm sentient (although thats debateable). If you need an NPC to carry out a conversation about subject X or Y, you have to do it programmatically. Just collecting a primitive boolean response is task enough, now consider writing an AI that would use fuzzy logic to determine what you are attempting to say. Each NPC would then require its own fuzzy logic. [ Its been suggested that a super-computer -may- reach a state close to human intelligence around 2020. You would need 100's of super-computers to provide 100's of sentient NPC's ]
If an NPC asks you a specific question where a boolean value yes or no is expected, the best bet is to respond with a boolean value. Why? because they aren't there to serve you. You may think they are but thats an illusion.
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Harnquist doesn't understand "about iron mines", he just parrots back the same thing he says when you tell him "about iron"
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The woman standing opposite the leather armour merchant in Hydlaa starts fights but can't understand any sort of retort or threat made to her...
It was rather funny threatening to "tear your head from your scrawny worthless neck" only to be answered with "I do not understand what you're saying"..
Well hell... how do I make a threat any easier to comprehend? ;D
I like the gladiator response to the word "die" haha, it's quite amusing.
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NPCs are capable of expresing meactions as a separate line of text, one of different color.
But they also express their behaviour in the casual line of text with use of ** or brackets.
Could all this be changed to a separate line of meaction by a NPC, the one which is collored differently too - it looks better and more consistent if it is done i one way and i think it is the best method.
Could someone search the databse for all brackets, especially [ and all * ?
It is especially disturbing when a NPC use [] when players commonly use it to describe occ.
I like the gladiator response to the word "die" haha, it's quite amusing.
I assume it is the same as a year before. Implies the fact how easly one can get out from the DR, like death was a common happening. I will await this to be fixed.
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There's a very good reason that the NPCs within regular chats use bracketed comments for actions in the way you're describing, but I can't get into details. However, whereas NPCs are capable of expressing actions as a separate line of text within quests, they currently cannot within regular chats. They use different systems. Hopefully one day this will be rectified.
I'll look into the "die" message. Likely that was written a long time ago, before the DR concepts were as fleshy and settings-y as they are now. ...Okay, I've looked into it and changed the message to which you were referring. Thanks!
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thx for reply.
However, whereas NPCs are capable of expressing actions as a separate line of text within quests, they currently cannot within regular chats. They use different systems. Hopefully one day this will be rectified.
It is not true (not correct).
(15:11:33) Nikodemus says: where are we
(15:11:35) Mulgik looks around as if kra is looking at the village for the first time.
(15:11:43) Mulgik says: Gugrontid is a village that was founded by krans. It has ... bla-bla-bla[censored];P.
I hope so too it will be rectified.
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He does? That's new!
If that's the case I know exactly what to do, but it'll take time. How fast do you think the players can help me out by whipping up a list of instances where they use brackets? I'll fix them as soon as I can.
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select dialog from npc where data =' /[.*/]' if you have read access to the appropriate database, interpolating first the correct db, column and field names for 'npc', 'dialog' and 'data'.
or is my sql faulty too?
guess you do not have that access though.
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I would not swear that SQL is able to apply "regular expressions"... So far I only know '_' as "1 char" and '%' as "any chars", regarding wildcards.
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guess you do not have that access though.
You're right, I don't at that.
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Well according to my O'Reilly "MYSQL Pocket Reference", a little dated now, MYSQL does. Possibly others do too if you are not using MYSQL, I think you are though. looks like I missed a keyword though
value1 REGXP/RLIKE value2 e.g.
(SELECT name FROM people WHERE name RLIKE '^B.8')
It is kind of too bad READ access is not more widely available within the database, it would make things easier. I suppose there are security concerns.
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So what does this have to do with how dumb NPCs are? What you guys are talking about are bugs in what they do say...not what they don't understand at all.
I have no idea about database things. I've asked for your help in locating them. Help me or don't.
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I've asked for your help in locating them.
Exactly that we are trying to do.
Isn't it more efficient and reliable to have a computer search for text patterns than a human trying all the possible questions in game?
If anyone had SELECT access to the database, he could use the SQL server as tool to detect all blatantly malformed entries in seconds. If not ... well, it is your spare time.
The logical issues, of course, will need questions in game. They can't be found with a computer request.
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I have to apologize because I already new that such access is strictly limited to very few people. My only hope was that someone with the needed permissions might see this and schedule a few minutes to producing a list. It is, of course, a vain hope as such a list seems to be perceived as a bad idea by itself regardless of database rights because it could get out into the wrong hands. That can't happen if it doesn't exist.
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Well I just want Jomed Parcen to sell me a filleting knife
when I ask him to give me one he only says that he has one and that it cost 50 trias
that's when it gets exhausting, I tried things like "I buy it" "ok" "yes" "It's a bargain" and "I'll buy it" but nothing works, he keeps saying "waddaya say?"
help please =(
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erm..no you do /give and you give him the 50 tria and its yours...
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Well I just want Jomed Parcen to sell me a filleting knife
And how should he know what you need?
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Read again -- he wrote:
1) Ootit tells Jomed he needs a filetting knife (he tells Jomed, because he does a quest)
2) Jomed tells Ootit it costs 50 tria (the quest continues)
3) Ootit has to give Jomed 50 tria (Jomed knows how to respond on receiving 50 tria, because it is now the next quest step)
Is that too complicated?
And it is not at all related to the topic of this thread... Here we are interested to know incomplete lists of responses to expectable questions, but outside any quests!
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I need the 10 suggestions!! I cant come up with my own questions to ask... Im a horrible interrogator :(
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Im a horrible interrogator :(
Maybe use a bright lamp directed right into the victims eyes? :detective:
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not 10 questions, but just that one is strange enough : Bhurral Varsheen, guard of Akkaio's door, is a trainer. However if you ask her what does she train, she tells you she is not a trainer ::|
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Greetings.
OOC:
The biggest thing for me to overcome was the sad fact that it took me an hour to get out of the Tuturial Zone. I had boggled that area so bad, I had to roll another character (not because of losing the Ore item). Apparently, because I had not updated my client since Juvember, I had to re-roll. I thought there was something outside the castle, as well, so I adventured out the castle by climbing a small hill and jumping onto the wall. But, this isn't about my zany adventure in Noobland...
NPCs that are downline of the main NPC (chained quests) they give small clues concerning your inability to interact with them. If you have the magicial word or phrase, most NPCs with bestow gifts upon you. My whole problem with giving NPCs AI is that they tend to confuse one meaning with another. So, we don't want the NPC to hand you the Sword of a Thousand Truths because you /me sneezed at the NPC.
Ten words to live on is more than enough to get an NPC chatting in the right direction. I find that the 'wrong phrase' will trigger a ton of verbage that is very helpful, but a bit too much. Limiting the responses to no more than three sentences is keeping pace with today's gamers. I admit to being a skim reader, so I am particularly annoyed with redundancy and excess wording (unlike my reply :P).
Once you get the NPC's to respond to what is expected (Triggers), perhaps another list of 20 words might be useful in steering the unassuming questor in the right direction. I give an example of this below:
NPC: Actor 1000: Welcome to the Potion Emporium. How Can I assist you today? (Note: 2 sentences)
PLAYER: Hi. I'm looking for the Golden Key of Lost Light. (triggers: Hi (not wanted here), Golden (good trigger), Key (good trigger), Lost Light (KEY PHRASE)
NPC: Actor 1000: The Lost Light Key is hidden in the trunk at Smithy's House. Please hand this note to Smithy to proceed. Do you need any Potions Today? (3 lines)
PLAYER: Who cares about potions, I don't? (Steering Trigger: Potions)
NPC: Actor 1000: To Buy Potions or to sell items please right-click me and choose the Trade Option.
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A worse scenario...
Player: Hi. (trigger)
NPC: Hi. My name is Abelia. Welcome to the Tutorial! Before you continue your travel to the mainland, I must be sure you are ready to go.
NPC: To my left is a Blacksmith named Neave. She is expert in teaching newcomers the art of Smithing. Please tell her, I sent you.
Player: Thank you.
NPC: You are welcome. Please see me if you need my help later. I will be here waiting on you.
(Player begins dialog with the Smithy, Neave...)
Player: Hi
NPC: Welcome weary traveller. How can I help you today?
Player: Abelia sent me. (Trigger: Abelia)
(Same interaction, different verbage...)
Player: Abelia
NPC: Yes, I know Abelia. She is over there, behind you. Have you met her yet?
Player: Yes
NPC: Good the she sent you to see me, right?
Player: yes
NPC: Good. Lets get started on the next part of your tutorial training. I will teach you how to Smith.
My point here is that every player isn't going to have the right phrase, but can be steered if other facts are true. In the examples, the NPC steered the Player because the character had already met Abelia and completed a quest. Given that 'true', it was simple to let the NPC steer without giving away secrets to passerbys or the character itself.
Anyhow...that's a step back from where you are heading, I know. It was just fustrating to have to be too specific in order to get the NPC to move the dialog forward. I spent way too much time finding the word 'ready' but to my surpise, I took less time to find the word that began with the letter 'R'.
Thanks for the time spent...
Taaka
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Sharven doesn't know things he should which are in the new book on Laanx.
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Don't think it's been mentioned yet based on a search:
Without posting any spoilers, about the quest given by the NPC that can't see:
Asking the correct NPC for the first item is a little fiddly: "i need <item>" does not give a useful response, while "about <item>" does, where I think they should both produce a useful response.
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@ Bragan:
The kind of issues where an NPC in a quest does not understand one or another reply, is a different topic. I am quite sure Rizin may enjoy a PM about this in detail. Adding more diverse recognised quest replies is definitely useful.
Here we rather talk about responses which are not related to quests, but to the "profession" of NPCs or a level of "common knowledge".
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Little plug: it's a little nice touch that Burdess Quirain addreeses you while you pass by asking if you'd like some fish, but if you reply "no thank you" she doesnt know what you're talking about..
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She doesn't understand how anyone could not want to buy fish.
One that was bugging me earlier was that I needed to get ink and paper from Jayose for a quest. So I ask for the paper, and he says it will cost 50 tiras. I hand him an octa and I get an error saying that Jayose does not want this. I guess he doesn't want to do business with me.
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She doesn't understand how anyone could not want to buy fish.
One that was bugging me earlier was that I needed to get ink and paper from Jayose for a quest. So I ask for the paper, and he says it will cost 50 tiras. I hand him an octa and I get an error saying that Jayose does not want this. I guess he doesn't want to do business with me.
not that this is related to this thread at all, but there is a bug that jayose will only take 50 TRIAS not an octa or anything else for this transaction.
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She doesn't understand how anyone could not want to buy fish.
One that was bugging me earlier was that I needed to get ink and paper from Jayose for a quest. So I ask for the paper, and he says it will cost 50 tiras. I hand him an octa and I get an error saying that Jayose does not want this. I guess he doesn't want to do business with me.
not that this is related to this thread at all, but there is a bug that jayose will only take 50 TRIAS not an octa or anything else for this transaction.
Until that matter is fixed, please use the free moneychanger. And I'll try to look into that. (I haven't been around much lately. I know.)
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Terea Lohdren asks you if you would mind doing something for her. If you answer yes, as in yes I would mind doing something for you, she gives you the quest. Tiny, matter but would help make the quests seem more unique rather than typing the same thing at the beginning of every one.
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I believe this "Do you mind?" - "Yes" issue was even a bug report (maybe wish) already... at least I raised this topic elsewhere before.
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Hi. I use (U) for unanswered questions, (A) for answered questions, (I) for improperly answered questions.
This is a bit of Levrus' chat. I hope more than 10 is ok.
Being polite:
U are you Levrus?
U are you all right?
A how do you do?
U how is your wife?
A are you married?
U do you have children?
U who is your father?
U about your family?
Magic:
U are you a wizard?
U are you a mage?
U about wizards
U about mages
U about mana
U can you enchant rings?
I can you enchant weapons? (A weapon is the best way to defend yourself ... blah blah)
U about formulas / spell formulas
I about combining glyphs (Have glyphs? Yes...)
Familiars:
I do you have a pet? (Give you what? You'll have to be more specific.)
I do you have a familiar? (Give you what? ...)
Alchemy:
U are you an alchemist?
A about alchemy
U about healing
A I need healing
U I need healing potions
U I need potions / a potion
U about ingredients
Things:
U about sacks
U about glyph sacks
U about crystals
I about the crystal (Crystals are normally food for Krans....)
U about rings
Training:
A do you teach?
U can you teach?
A can you teach me?
U do you teach magic?
U do you teach alchemy?
U do you know other teachers/trainers?
U who teaches/trains magic?
Things seen in his tower:
U about your shop/tower
U about [your] statue
U about [the] [giant] snake(s)
U about Raithen
U who is Raithen?
U do you know Raithen?
U what is a groffel / yulbar?
U about groffel / yulbar
U about barrel(s)
U about mixing / mixing station
U about [the] oven
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Terea Lohdren asks you if you would mind doing something for her. If you answer yes, as in yes I would mind doing something for you, she gives you the quest. Tiny, matter but would help make the quests seem more unique rather than typing the same thing at the beginning of every one.
There are a few of these that exist (RE: Do you mind?). We have fixed them as they are pointed out, so if you see one please submit a bug report and we'll take care of it. Thanks!
On the other topic, you can ask them a few different things to start a quest, not just the standard line.
Hi. I use (U) for unanswered questions, (A) for answered questions, (I) for improperly answered questions.
This is a bit of Levrus' chat. I hope more than 10 is ok.
Being polite:
U are you Levrus?
U are you all right?
[...cut for length...]
Thank you for the organized list. We will take a look through it and see what we can add in.
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A few more, then, with Boralis, while they are fresh. Still (U) for unanswered, (A) for answered and (I) for improperly.
Family:
A who is Rinna? (Ahh, Rinna, my beautiful mate....)
I are you married? (That's my own business, thank you).
A how are you?
A how is Rinna?
U how is your wife?
U do you have children/kids?
U your wife is pretty
U Rinna is pretty
Things around him:
U what's in the chest?
U about the chest
U is this chest yours?
U about large chest
U about crates
U about wooden crates
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A few more, then, with Boralis, while they are fresh. Still (U) for unanswered, (A) for answered and (I) for improperly.
...
*Rizin adds them to the list and realizes she needs more post-its.
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/me hands Rizin some 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of paper
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*Rizin stares blankly at the paper, "What's this....?" She flips the paper over and looks confused. "No stick?"
*Rizin, armed with scissors and that paste-glue, sits diligently cutting the paper into small squares and applying glue to the back upper edge. "Now...what was that about the NPC's being dumb?"
*Rizin smiles triumphantly and adds her new post-its to the wall, "Thanks Caarrie!"
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This is Taulim, lost in his childhood memories.
U what are you doing?
I what do you do? (He then tells his name and past life)
I what is your job? (same answer as above)
U where do you come from?
U where is homestead / your village?
A about homestead
Guarding
U what is your duty?
U why are you here?
U who is your boss?
U who do you obey to?
U who is in charge here?
U what is your rank?
U is this area safe?
U I have a crime to report
U I need help
Buildings:
U about / what is / where is the court hall?
I about barracks (he talks about other barracks, not the ones behind him)
U where is the prison / jail?
U about prison / jail
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*Rizin wonders if Khoridor is old enough to apply to settings (http://www.planeshift.it/recruitment.html).
Edit: To fix typo.
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Khoridor is very old, and considering (as contributor).
Taria Prestis is very, very hard to reach (and even to notice, for a dwarf)
A who are you?
I are you married? (she just said she was)
A about your husband (My husband Barl...)
U about Barl
I what do you do?
I what is your job?
U what's your name?
A about you
A who / where is your husband?
A how are you?
I how is your husband?
Expnading what she said:
U what are you looking at?
U what do you see?
U what are you doing?
U about labyrinths / stone labyrinths / stone labyrinth
A about labyrinth (same as everybody here: they always mention it on plural, but expect questions without the 's')
A about bronze doors
U about gardens / garden
U about balcony
U about [the] view
A about temple
A about tower
A about Plaza
U about fountain
U about statue
U about this house
Just for fun:
U can/do you cook?
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How about if If I bribe a hydlaa guard to kick some guys rear end around, that would be RP, entertaining and rather easy to understand for the NPC? "If I pay you money will you beat that guy up?"
Of course this is simply a joke...then again you could put it into action ;D
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Even our Octarch, Iragdun Medio Salikarios, tells me about the dungeon:
A dungeon, eh? I don't think you'll find anything like that around here. The city officials have denied the existence of any such structure underneath our streets. Why would they lie?
Well, I believe as the leader of "the city officials", he should know best, eh? -- I think he deserves a slightly different reply. Not one random out of the usual pool.
Someone must remember Crosh Dunehammer...
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I am not certain that the hole beneath the temple really qualifies as a dungeon myself.
A close, dark prison, commonly, under ground, as if the lower apartments of the donjon or keep of a castle, these being used as prisons.
There are no cells present there. If there is a dungeon it hasn't been implemented yet. Perhaps it is under the courthouse or guardroom or even beneath the Octarch's offices. The closest thing I have seen is the lower level of the Arena.
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There are no cells present there.
There are cells. At least two I know of. That's one of them (sorry for the quality of the screenshot):
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2038/try3im3.th.png) (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=try3im3.png)
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Is that above one of the places where gems occur? I have never noticed it before. Is it new?
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Is that above one of the places where gems occur? I have never noticed it before. Is it new?
Yeees :P. And according to different sources, it's not new ;)
Edit: Ouch, we are quite a bit off-topic, aren't we? :innocent:
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Why not have the system record phrases that NPCs don’t under stand in the game?
We do. Unfortunately, it's lost with every restart. So it's likely that if I went around, I could find several NPCs that have no misunderstood phrases because nobody's spoken to them since the last restart. In addition, a large majority of the things spoken to NPCs is within a quest context. Most people don't talk to NPCs "just because." Just reading the forums and seeing people asking for help when NPCs know the answers is proof enough of that. That's why I want your help: to make it easy for players to speak to NPCs and use them as not only a source of game information but also interesting settings tidbits, outside of quests.
Sorry, for intruding :oops:, especially for someone newbie like me. Can I ask something: Why don't we do predesigned answer choices?
I know that many RPGs already did that, and that Planeshift wants to be unique, but I think this would really help solve the Talking To NPC problems.
Besides, that's what me and my friends love about MMORPGS; simplicity of communicating. We like the convenient choice of choosing the right replies, or answers that have their certain reactions in a game. It also what makes us differ games and reality. In reality, it's hard to know the right replies to people, but in MMORPGs, especially with the NPC, things are easier to communicate. That is, for me, the beauty of RPG games.
Please, don't let the objective of making Planeshift unique makes us forego the traditionaility of all games: communication with NPCs. All of my friends, even the one who introduces to me this MMORPG had left the game, in search for a more easier-to-communicate NPCs game.
Although just started, but I am finding it harder and harder to stay, especially when I had to spend half an hour just to get one right answer. And I can't just keep going to the tutorial, it would spoil the game.
And it also save the energy of making new phrases and words just so NPCs could react with what players type.
I'm sorry if this is bemeaning for those who have done a very good job with this game, but I was sad that the trait I loved most in an RPG was lost in Planeshift. :surrender:
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so often the only way to get a response is to ommit the details from what the previous NPC Said
also it would be nice if the NPC you need to see about a particular thing , didnt just tell you about the item or subject
seeing as how you need to talk to them about it
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Lorytia Starhammer inspired some questions, after completion of some quest. (U) for unanswered, (A) for answered and (I) for improperly.
U about trasok
U about starhammer
U about the starhammer clan
U about clan
U about family
Then it goes a bit confusing, as the same questions have to be asked twice to be answered.
I about the sunshine squadron (Which Squadron would that be then? There are two).
I about the sunshine squadron, 2 (She still talks about both squadrons)
I about the shadow squadron (same issues as above; the last sentence is also unclear: "They must be doing something correctly." I still have no idea what she means)
U about the fortress
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And a bit of Canyt
Family:
U about nyshyn
A about your sister (My sister Nyshyn...)
U about ruins
U where are the ruins?
U where is Nyshyn?
Occupation:
U about your findings
U what are you looking for?
U about thieves / thievery
U why are you here?
U are you hiding?
U about hiding
U about the fortress
U where is the fortress?
U where are we?
U what is this place?
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Today, Utno-Leig:
Job:
A who are you?
U about your superiors
U who are your superiors?
U who is in charge here?
U what do you guard?
U why are you here?
U what is your position? / rank?
I are you a guard?/ soldier?
Places:
A what is the winch?
U where is the winch?
U can I use the winch?
U how do I use the winch?
U about the Barn
U what is the Barn?
A about Nalvys
U where is Nalvys?
Personal:
U are you a kran?
U are you hungry?
U are you strong?
U do you like the winch?
U do you like it here?
U do you like your job? / position?
U do you have any family?
U about [your] family
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Not that he's a particularly important NPC, but Ondren Torr:
U about diamond powder
U about gem cutting
U about diamond
U can you cut/crush/smash diamond
U smash diamond
U make diamond powder
U cut/crush/shape diamond/gem
U can you help me
The input that ended up working for me is not, as you probably know, very different from those above.
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Nalri Grimtorr stands in front of a staircase up to a tower, with a heap of crates next to her, right on the street. She tells me she used to be a freelancer smith, and that she used to travel around a lot...
U about steel
U about smithing
A about Harnquist (incl. a little hint)
U about Trasok (traveled not so much, eh?)
U about stairs
U about staircase
U about house
U about crate[-s]
U about box[-es]
U What is in the crates?
U about delivery
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Bjorid Haakthir builds and repairs carpets. It's not obvious that he doesn't sell to everybody. I think he should somehow direct us to merchants. (Some of the following questions use his own words from other dialogs, but are generic enough so that I put them here.)
I who are you? (He doesn't tell his name.)
U can you make/repair a carpet [for me] ?
U I need/want a carpet
U show me your carpets
I what do you sell? (You'll find merchants almost everywhere...)
U who are your customers?
U about customer[ s ]
U about [your] shop/laboratory
U are your carpets cheap/expensive ?
U how much for a carpet?
U what are your prices?
Hunting:
U about hunting
U how/what do you hunt?
U about fur[ s ]/hide[ s ]
U about fur quality
U what furs/hides do you use?
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Regarding Bjorid: I believe at least two of the questions above are also key phrases in a quest, so the server better knows if you are in a quest when asking this sentence.
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.
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It would be nice if Tyrus Beaut had some responses to...
about Talad
about Laanx
about Konroran
about Aedaisti
about Iduello (or "Iduello Beaut"...though "Beaut" now seems to give responses about Tyrus)
about Ilallorin ("Ilallorin Cor" now gives a response that seems appropriate to Kerryk)
In fact Kerryk could do with some responses to those too.
(posted in the wrong threat last time X-/ )
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Hey, all. I think this is my first trip outside the whining- sorry, tech support forums. (For the record, I solved my last problem completely on my own, thank you very much. ;D) I hesitate to offer my two cents on this issue, especially seeing how the last suggestion was taken ( :-X ). But anyway, here goes...
Planeshift is an open source game, no? Therefore, anyone can delve into the murky depths of the code and tinker around to their heart's content, right? Could we, the great unwashed programming-illiterate masses, submit directly the code necessary to make our favorite NPC as verbose as anyone might wish? What language is it in (French? German? ??? ...) and how much effort would it take to learn just the bits to write NPC responses? Obviously, the devs would have to give a submitter the green light both before and after submission, and the actual insertion and editing would be done by them. But I think this is an annoying enough issue that we the players want it resolved as quickly as possible, and lots of us, I think, would be more than willing to lend a hand to make this game more fun.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not actually volunteering or anything ... yet. But, given the vast number of idle players and contributors lurking this forum, I'm sure we could get together enough enough material to crush a Kran. So, rather than post lists, we could post code ... Anyway, that's my idea.
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Could we, the great unwashed programming-illiterate masses, submit directly the code necessary to make our favorite NPC as verbose as anyone might wish? What language is it in (French? German? ??? ...) and how much effort would it take to learn just the bits to write NPC responses?
no you cant do that as the info that are part of npcs, quests and art are not under the open source CODE license. but if you wish to help npcs learn more you can add info to a thread like this one or apply to the settings team.
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Hey, all. I think this is my first trip outside the whining- sorry, tech support forums. (For the record, I solved my last problem completely on my own, thank you very much. ;D) I hesitate to offer my two cents on this issue, especially seeing how the last suggestion was taken ( :-X ). But anyway, here goes...
Planeshift is an open source game, no? Therefore, anyone can delve into the murky depths of the code and tinker around to their heart's content, right? Could we, the great unwashed programming-illiterate masses, submit directly the code necessary to make our favorite NPC as verbose as anyone might wish? What language is it in (French? German? ??? ...) and how much effort would it take to learn just the bits to write NPC responses? Obviously, the devs would have to give a submitter the green light both before and after submission, and the actual insertion and editing would be done by them. But I think this is an annoying enough issue that we the players want it resolved as quickly as possible, and lots of us, I think, would be more than willing to lend a hand to make this game more fun.
Don't get me wrong here. I'm not actually volunteering or anything ... yet. But, given the vast number of idle players and contributors lurking this forum, I'm sure we could get together enough enough material to crush a Kran. So, rather than post lists, we could post code ... Anyway, that's my idea.
At this time Settings really does not support a contribution department. It is much less work for us to have those interested on the team rather than reviewing the responses of many people of varying quality/capability. This thread, and it's counterparts, don't actually write the responses, just offer suggestions for what is missing and give us an opportunity to see what the gaps are and where our players are exploring. There are a lot of concerns to writing for an NPC and we prefer those jobs are handled by those within settings.
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I've been quoted! Twice! :woot:
Ah, well. It just gets so frustrating not being able to do much. I'll just have to see where else I can go to kibitz... You haven't seen the last of me. :devil:
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I've been quoted! Twice! :woot:
Ah, well. It just gets so frustrating not being able to do much. I'll just have to see where else I can go to kibitz... You haven't seen the last of me. :devil:
Three times...
Hmm...where else can you go?? Why not here? (http://www.planeshift.it/recruitment.html)
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I'd love to join. I really would. But my experience doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and until I have some idea what I'm doing I'd only get in your way. Just like I'm doing now... It strikes me how silly it must look, a noob like me trying to tell all you people what to do. :-[ Okay, enough with the self-denigration. If any of you could point me in the direction of a good programming primer or some such, it'd be much appreciated and you might even see me back here in a few years. Otherwise I'll just get out from under your feet and stop hijacking this thread.
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I'd love to join. I really would. But my experience doesn't amount to a hill of beans, and until I have some idea what I'm doing I'd only get in your way. Just like I'm doing now... It strikes me how silly it must look, a noob like me trying to tell all you people what to do. :-[ Okay, enough with the self-denigration. If any of you could point me in the direction of a good programming primer or some such, it'd be much appreciated and you might even see me back here in a few years. Otherwise I'll just get out from under your feet and stop hijacking this thread.
there is more to the "team" then just coding, there are artists in the art dept, writers in the settings dept, and so on ;) so if you have _any_ skills and want to donate them check the recruitment page (http://www.planeshift.it/recruitment.html) for more info ;)
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time I added something here....
i asked every single npc in the game who was the most well known name in all of the world was, and they didn't respond back with my characters name.
this should be fixed IMO.
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Barrin Dhorod is frustrating during a quest. (U) for unanswered, (A) for answered and (I) for improperly.
U about experimental blade [Note the unfortunate use of *correct* grammar]
A about experiment blade [the incorrect grammar used originally by Harnquist]
U give me experiment blade
U give me experimental blade
U harnquist sent me
The "give me" and "harnquist sent me" are somewhat understandable, but in real speech would probably trigger some more specific response than "I don't understand you, sorry." But the use of improper grammar (nouns cannot modify other nouns; the correct word must be the adjective) in the original NPC statement made this a nasty puzzle in a way that contributes nothing to the game.
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@ MrRedwood:
This reply is possibly too specific, too much related to a quest - close to a spoiler even.
The bugtracker would probably be a better place for this content (including a request to make it confidental). And maybe a PM to Rizin as well.
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Well, I tried to follow the style I'd seen in previous posts in this thread, starting at here (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29353.msg389913#msg389913).
Given what the original post asked for -- successful and unsuccessful queries to NPCs -- I don't see how this could be too much less of a spoiler, though. Of course, that was Jeraphon almost two years ago -- is that still the right person to PM, or is it Rizin? Grammar problems aren't really any more of a bug than any other textual alteration, I would think.
And I can't PM anyone yet ;) -- still fewer than 10 posts, although I think I only have one or two more. But who to PM with this stuff?
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Queries to NPCs - yes. But preferably not related to a quest, instead rather to "casual topics", because quests are (a) technically a different issue, and (b) a sensitive issue regarding public presentation of their content.
I caught Rizin...
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Well, I didn't post anything that would inform someone about where the quest originated, or even how that quest would end up at the two NPCs I mentioned, so I don't think it actually gives anything away.
The (undisclosed) quest-originating NPC explicitly tells the questor to go to Harnquist, so that isn't a give-away; and Harnquist explicitly states the next step, including the grammatical mistake.
I understand the point about not giving away quests, and I think I was adequately cautious here.
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A good way to get problems in quests to the attention of the correct people, is to make a bug report here (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/). If you have to add spoiling information, just open a report without the info and ask it to be set private. When that is done, you and all people needing to can see it, and you can add the info in a comment (which we can copy to the details).
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Greetings, MrRedWood~
I feel fer ye, I do, with the communication problem with this arrogant Magician. Alas, no one in Yliakum could help me either, 'til final I stumbled upon the solution.
Here be a non-spoiler hint, I hope. Look careful at what that ole magician do say to ye. There be a word therein used that be not used correct in American English nor in British-English. Evident, the mage knows not how to speak the king's tongue.
Yers,
Roled
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Rabartus Livrandar does not understand "Bye" and replies with typical "not understood" answers (e.g. "Get your words straight, will you? You're speaking gibberish.").
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Harnquist told me to go get two apples and give them to him (i think it's part of a quest). I tried giving them to him, telling him I have two apples, everything that came to mind.... Well that idiot won't take them apples! Is this npc idiocy or just me?
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you must use the give function. i think that was explained throughly in the tutorial or i'm wrong? :)
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The same question was just answered in the "Inconsistency hunt" a few weeks ago:
You will have to "/give" Harnquist a "stack of 2 apples".
Keep track of the threads where you already asked your questions (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29670.msg406234#msg406234), Sarras! ;)
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Tutorial taught nothing about a "stack". I already tried "/give 2 apples" and everything similar to that but it didn't work.
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Alright, your point. :) - I guess Rizin might take this as reason to talk about the amount of information in the tutorial in relation to the complexity of an absolute beginner quest.
Yet, I wonder how little some people decide to let their characters ask a question to other characters in-game, roleplaying a citizen of Yliakum... There must be a purpose for all the newcomer-helping guilds, you know. ;)
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Well it worked. I just manually gave Harnquist 2 apples which I did before but it didn't work the first time I tried (and i know that I tried the same thing last time because I made note of it). Could have something to do with the npc server always being a beesh?
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Might as well have something to do with a developer adding support for "giving 2 single apples"?!... I don't know, but I rate it possible.
I believe the "NPC superclient" is only responsible for NPC movement and combat, but quests are done by the main game server.
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I got lost during my first visit to the arena after using a portal to get around a missing floor. I happened to find Archilaya Gurpleferd, a baker who didn't know very much.
A - Accurate
I - Inaccurate
U - Unanswered
About Himself:
A Who are you? (I am Archilaya Gurpleferd, baker...)
I What do you sell? (I'm not a merchant.)
A Are you married? (That's my own business, thank you.)
U Who do you work for?
A Can you train me? (Ah _______, I can teach you to bake such wondrous breads!)
Places:
A/I About arena. (The arena is where I make my home...)
U About Hydlaa. (I don't quite understand that...)
U Where am I?
U How to exit/leave arena.
U Where is Hydlaa?
Baking:
A About baking. (Baking is a skill... if you are interested, I might be able to teach you about it.)
U Teach me baking. (This could be because it isn't implemented.)
I About food. (I don't have any, but you might try the tavern.)
For fun:
I What is bread? (I sell freshly baked bread here...)
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A About baking. (Baking is a skill... if you are interested, I might be able to teach you about it.)
U Teach me baking. (This could be because it isn't implemented.)
Something similar works for cooking, therefore I was already quite annoyed too that e.g. making Mixed Nuts swapped between cooking and baking -- one of the few receipes my food related char was able to create until that point.
I am still unable to obtain the Baking skill book and still have no clue which quest I am missing to get it (please do not post that here!).
I would expect her to reply on "Teach me baking" with a line like "Convince me first that you are worth being taught family secrets"...
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I don't know if I can give details here but I have tried to speak with Kerryk Corr about the content of a book he should have written and he knew nothing about it, nor Tyrus Beaut (who is more or less involved).
I can give more details here if you want, I just wanted to be sure that was not spoiler.
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Sounds to me more like post-quest dialog than general dialog. I've never seen any post-quest dialog (that is, casual topics opened as a result of quests); in that regard, it is consistent.
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Zhaomal Shehan`s description says he is wearing a cloak indicating he`s a high ranked Shadowcaster, but when asked what Shadowcasters are he doesn`t understand.
Nor does he respond to questions about Laanx. Being a lemur I`d expect at least the standard response most Hydlaa NPCs would give.
He doesn`t respond to questions about...
the water wheel
the Eagle Bronze Doors
Raithen
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Sounds to me more like post-quest dialog than general dialog. I've never seen any post-quest dialog (that is, casual topics opened as a result of quests); in that regard, it is consistent.
It is technically possible to have dialog only being available after finishing a quest, just as it is now possible to have guards point at you when you enter a city with your weapons drawn. I do not know if this is used yet though.
Anyway, if someone wrote a book and does not know about it, that is something to be mentioned in this thread :)
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When asked about Yliakum, Londris gives the usual info that a Hydlaa NPC would...including ending with "This is the first level, or the Dome"...
but he`s in the Death Realm citadel.
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I have a suggestion: why don't you get rid of NPC tab, if the guards in Hydlaa yell at you to put your swords away then it could be in main also it means everyone will stop and stare at you and also its more Role Play. and most quests are done through a better system then NPC tab. Also this idea is to be implemented after all the quests are through the new system.
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NPCs being able to denounce a character in the Main channel?! - Ridiculous! :D
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they do already the text isn't only sent to you but to anyone in a certain radius. those sheat yelling are publicsay/publicaction not classic private ones. you'll notice it by staying near one of those npc
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That's true ... I remember I have heard Rabartus shouting after someone to put his weapons away, while I was in Kada-El's... I was just not sure if a GM impersonated Rabartus in that moment. But I believe we will recognise that by chat line colors.
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>Jefecra Harcrit points to Mishka
Jefecra Harcrit says: Enkidukai! Put those weapons away now!
I think this was what you heard…