PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Coneitic on August 10, 2007, 11:21:48 pm
-
well i just logged on after a nice long break and am really dissapointed with the game. now these are rants so feel free to stop reading now if you love the way ps is now. you've been warned.
Wheres the Good RP gone? i usually check forums to see whats up in the world of yliakum and never see any good rp's. did everyone just stop trying? so i decided to hop on today to see what was going on. surely there was a big fight going on somewhere or a crime being made or a good vs evil battle somewhere or an indept barely understandable rp being chased (underthemoon). heres what i saw constant running back and forth from place to place. most likely completing quest. a huge group of people standing at the furnace auctioning stuff. and the only chat was people asking help for quest. i was able to get a little rp out of a few people and talk to a few friends and mostly people are just "engaged" or married. ???? is that what this game has come down to? an aol chattroom with puzzles? I heard a few good rpers are back including a few greats. i hear eid is unbanned and gwinn is back but i feel sorry for what they have to work with. i left around the time it became popular to say "i choose not to be in this rp". that was my biggest anger issue. how can u be in another world call yourself an rper but turn it into a game as soon as theres something you dont like? isnt that one of the foundations of role playing? being able to adapt to your surroundings. whens the last time an rp wasnt scripted? whens the last time someone intervened and changed the whole story? anyone can sit down and write a story. how many can create an idea and use the elements in that world to keep it going? isnt one of the main goals of planeshift to have a constantly evolving world while your in it or not? does that just mean the grass grows and the klyros migrate to the south in the winter? i see no criminals anymore in the game and from resorces am told they are barely around. it just ruins the game if you cant get robbed or assaulted just by logging in thats part of what makes an rp world. constant good vs evil battles if its a small pickpocketing and arrest to a major battle headed by the elemental light and outlaws. not sure if EL is still around. and why in the world is there an npc at kada's? since she left that has been the prime RP spot. i even learned how to rp there trying to be a bartender. whats left for people to do now stand infront of harns and just talk about what quest they finished. what happend to barfights. to defending kadas bar while she was gone. what happend to being able to order a beer from the barkeep and talking about your hard day with the server. that was the number one spot to be able to make trias and learn to whats going on in yliakum strictly by rp and that has been stripped. more NPC's more monsters more quest? how in the world does that help with rp? did you devs forget where your goign with this game i understand you want to have a great grind game along with great rp but when does it get balanced? when do you start workign towards the rp side of the game. what a gm quest every now and then (if they still do those) is supposed to make up for it? im going to have to try and come back so i can maybe stir up good rp and teach people how to be criminals in the game. how that no matter what happens if it looks good to read and creates a short story involving whatever the people are doing at the time effecting how the story goes. no pre planned outline that either goes as planed or doesnt get rp'd. but how do you do that when if someones on a quest or someone cant tell ooc from IC uses the now widely used phrase "i choose not to rp". please tell me im not the only one thats noticed this stuff. i read the thread of who they miss the most in the game.. well bring the spirit back, a number of people on that list i remember being great rpers that is one of the reasons they are so well missed. are you guys going to let it die out with them or take what they did as a lesson and evolve the rp further in planeshift not take it steps back.
if you read all of this congrats i just kept typing the thoughts in my head after just logging out of ps. some may be non understandable but whatever its a rant i warned u guys.
-
Wheres the Good RP gone? i usually check forums to see whats up in the world of yliakum and never see any good rp's.
:whistling: Maybe you're looking in the wrong place? I mean, like anyone is going to post "Hey, I'm now in a fascinating RP" Mostly it's done afterwards IF they already do it ;)
And Maybe, just like in RL, there are boring days ;) Not everyday a life has to be saved from a magic evil or less cliche stuff like that :)
-
The next person who is going to go on patting Eid on the back in this forum is going to get a time-out. He never belonged on the artificial pedestal you put him on, and his ban was not lifted. This is final, no further discussions on the subject.
Look around at all the new features and materials since you left, Coneitic. Then feel free to tell us one more time that we have abandoned roleplayers or something equally absurd.
-
Coneitic, two words: Double spaces.
is that what this game has come down to? an aol chattroom with puzzles?
Hah, Planeshift is going back to its roots then.
No, but seriously. The few bits of your block of text I decided to look at I agree whole-heartily. It might be a good read if not for the icky form :|
-
i did look around and i talked to a few people i used to play with and got info from them. im not hating on the grind part of the game you guys are coming along great on that part. but throwing in some emotes and a marry icon is not helping rp. im not telling you guys what to do im telling my part. remember this is beta??? remember i always argued when people say "the devs make this game and give it to us for free, dont complain" i quickly must respond we are the testers. without us this game would go nowhere we are just as vital as the devs themselves. my rants should not be taking as just angry critisism tho it is =) it should also help on the direction of the game. i myself have never liked the game for quest. many a grind games are out there. i mean look at silkroad non stop grind forever and its free. the thing that brought me to the game was the rp. and i will continue to speak the truth about it. and please dont think im just at the devs. i think alot of the players need to revamp the way they play. this isnt an aol chatroom. at least not anymore theres more to it. and unlike an aol chatroom you shouldnt be able to choose the conversations u join in on. tho i dont believe everyone should be obligated to get involved with every rp out there so i guess its kind of stuck right? if i thought the devs listened to its testers more and took ideas i would gladly throw out my opinions on ways to better the rp, seeing as how that was all i played the game for, but sorry to bring up eid again but that was a prime example of them not listening. i think the balance is this. 80% grind 20% rp development. and the game as of now is roughly the same maybe it would be time to balance it out before proceeding in more skins, more quest, more items. one idea i think would would fantastic that would really not be that hard is
hollow out some of the buildings. like i stated before with kada's you took away a great rp spot for people. maybe 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 different buildings u can go into and run a shop. just simple buisness people can start can help rp dramatically. then comes the factor of them getting robbed. then comes the factor of a policing unit then crooked cops then mayors then who knows??? dont restrict rpers to just trading items and standing around having a converstation about a quest they cant complete or a story they made up. encourage and push them to create a community, an economy.. a world.
*edit*
this was just as much general discussion about the game open for replies as it was a complaint. dont hide the critisim, embrace it.
-
Let's try to make this as constructive as possible, in terms of development requests (we're not hiding any criticism - this section was created specifically for it) - can you make a list of features or additions that you feel would help RP the most? Personally, I think emotes are really important and help out a lot, but you don't seem like you agree. Therefore we may have further differences in priorities, and I'm interested in hearing what game additions would improve the current situation for you.
-
people come in day in and day out around here. half of them say this game has great RPers and they thoroughly enjoyed all the fun they had in XXX's event. the other half comes in her saying that there is no rp and they rant about how good the rp was in XXX month's years ago. I look back at that time they list and i see the same types of things happening back there as well.
as it was said, not every second has to be a cliche moment where there is a force of good saving a damsel from danger and slaying a demonic force bent on taking over the world. why can't there be times of peaceful, "lets all help build the world's economy" or "time to explore the outlying areas to see what discoveries I can make"?
perhaps ther was some type of event thing going on somewhere, and that you were simply in the wrong place. perhaps you simply happened to be on at a low point of the day.
before anyone can make any valid states about the state of RP in the game, I put forth the following rules:
1) data must be collected over a 6 month or longer period.
2) you must be logged on 24/7 and in all areas of the world
3) you must record every thing that goes on every where
if it was possible to do that, I'm sure you find that there is RP happening at least somewhere every second the server is up.
and now for the question I always ask when ever someone makes a thread about how here is no RP in game:
why didn't you take it upon yourself to start something? if you want the large cliche battles of "good" vs "evil", then take it upon yourself to develop said event.
-
Well there are parts I agree with and parts I do not.
Firstly I must say that it's not the devs who are responsible for this game being rp oriented. That is in the hands of the players for the fact that if the devs start saying "If you don't rp we will ban you" many people would stop playing. They are doing their job because it is to make this game reach completion in the future. When you see new quest, NPC, or items then you know it was thanks to a dev working hard to do it and for that we should thank them.
I do however agree with the fact that many players are not seeing this game the way I used to see it. No matter how much I rather not admit it the rp is disappearing. It still happens but not as much as it used to before I went on vacation. Maybe its just that I'm not involved with the right people but I have rarely seen it. Before people would walk into the tavern and just have a conversation. People would always be talking in the plaza. All kinds of plots would be going on with badies. Events would be held all the time. I don't see as much as that anymore. Many new players are more focused on just gaining levels then having a chat or rping in some kind of plot. Is that wrong? No because its good people do care about the game mechanics. However should rp just start being ignored? No I don't think so. I have heard that this during this time of year things get a little slower and not as many rps come around. Taking that into account I realize that without as many people always playing it only makes sense that rp will be less. However if this is just the time where things are slow then I would hope that later on I begin to see those rps again.
One thing I do agree with that does bug me is people and how they "pick" which rps they want to get involved. I understand that this is a game and therefore it should be fun for everyone however when I see someone clearly becoming involved with an rp and then suddenly because they don't like whats going to happen to their character they dismiss it OOCLy it annoys me. When someone does not like the way another rps something and dismisses it OOCLy it also annoys me. I don't try to suggest that people shouldn't have the option to be in certain rps but they should come up with IC reasons for ignoring it.
In the end there really isn't anything that can be done about it though. I know certain people who I do rp with and while its a shame that I only rp with so many players I can't force someone to engage with me in rp. All that happens is that you get ignored or get into a fight. Do I wish there was more rping? Yes. The only way I can really think about to fix that is to think of more intresting rps for people to get involved in and to help more newbies to learn about rp before they start to treat this game as a leveling game where you spend hours to get really strong just to have rare items and be able to kill everyone :P
-
Firstly I must say that it's not the devs who are responsible for this game being rp oriented. That is in the hands of the players for the fact that if the devs start saying "If you don't rp we will ban you" many people would stop playing. They are doing their job because it is to make this game reach completion in the future. When you see new quest, NPC, or items then you know it was thanks to a dev working hard to do it and for that we should thank them.
I would say the opposite. Devs have the full responsibility over rp orientation of a game. Depending on what direction the game is developed into, it'll attract specific player-base. That's why people aren't roleplaying in Quake. If the game lacks roleplaying features, then players can only pretend it's a roleplaying game. In the end they can roleplay on irc, but that doesn't make irc a roleplaying oriented game.
Anyway, I share the opinion emotes won't add much roleplaying anywhere. Roleplaying features are usually hardcoded into the system, and in fact, often require the entire game being built upon them. This having been said, lower your expectations. Planeshift is a "MMORPG". Even if I believe it's absolutely possible to create a full out online roleplaying game, it's not going to be done with that formula. The fact Planeshift has this tiny amount of roleplaying going around is already a big success for this genre, which yes - is notorious for being nothing beyond internet chat and hack&slash form of games.
-
i didnt say it needed a large cliche of good vs evil rp. infact i was against cliche stunts to an extent, but usually it was people finding their own rp style in the middle of it. you dont have to be on 24/7 in every area to see how the worlds evolved in the game. im not talking about not seeing a epic battle or a great huge rp. im talking more along the lines of individual people. somethings you are right have not changed. such as people standing at the furnace all day and auctioning all day or people on a constant grind aiming to "beat" the game. those people have everythign they need already, all additions to that kind of gameplay are just a bonus. you can see it in the community individual people and how they act in the game. its not that theirs no rp. theres plenty of rp just chatroom rp. take me you may think i was somewhat cliche but my charactor was a common thief, a thug, who almost always got beat up. but that was my charactor i wanted him weak i wanted him to be normal. just a normal not so much great evil as not caring whats right or wrong as long as he gets trias. and he would constantly fall into rps trying to make some money try to cause problems and stall peoples rp as would say trying to get to work ontime and having to take a detour becaue of a bad accedent. i belive it helped me learn how to adapt to what was going on int he world and become involved in my own take but still heeding to all the elements while keeping the rp starter on his toes and learn how to do what i was trying to learn myself. of course this changed when it became popular to decide who u interact with. so everyday i would hop on and try something, find a new person to take advantage of, find an old enemey to aggrevate. make a new enemy by trying to steal or take hostages. or basically just trying to make money the non conventional way. hell when i started the game i took a roll as a barkeep to make money. i was determined to create a life of my charactor without quest. now i realize that was me and im not in anyway implying this is how everybody should play. i stated before the grind type of player is fine to and the game is geared towards them right now. and neko u bring up XXX's event. was fun stuff like that. i cannot stress enough im not talking about events. im talking common rp to create a charactor and implement him as much as possible in anyway he can, and again this for the rp player mainly. i belive more systems to push people into rp would help the whole game such as the buisness scheme i suggested. another would be a guard system. i understand the devs want their own governement and guards but right now they have no way to do that and its a hard thing to work out, so since its beta why not try out a player based militia. alot of you know trust worthy players that have been there for so long. ask them to start something up as orders from a "octarch" or whatever the name was and expieriment with it. with a set of rules strictly inforced by real people it would create more drama more chances for rp. this would especially be good as a sight into what happens when more of the game is in the hands of people. even if its gms who team up with trustworthy friends to control the world it would still be better for rp. and help the devs figure out the government scheme and what ways they can impliment it in the game, because last i played it was a tricky thing that the devs were still working on. maybe once a month some major event happens that changes the whole city or world in rp terms such as an attack on the temple or a fall of the fountain or a building being burned down. then the government needs helpers to rebuild so it gives them a player based quest. things like that would help rp i have more i can write down i have great ideas that i would like to share and knowing that my ideas would be thought about i would gladly play the game much much more but i think the concept of beta has been lost in translation and this game is stuck in a middle between beta and final. final rules but with beta environment. the game graphics wise is great, superb but i really feel the rp is lacking majorly half because of the players and half because of the devs. do you guys have a Dev on RP? if you do i would like to speak with him or her and just talk if at all possible. i constantly tried to improve rp int he world and constantly tried for help from other great rpers and im not by no means saying im great but i have a good idea and with the help of some of the other rpers we all know and love playign with i think it could change. and i'll stand by what i said at the begining of the post and if u really dont see at least half of the things i stated then maybe you shouldnt be one to speak on the rp behalf...
[/quote]I would say the opposite. Devs have the full responsibility over rp orientation of a game. Depending on what direction the game is developed into, it'll attract specific player-base. That's why people aren't roleplaying in Quake. If the game lacks roleplaying features, then players can only pretend it's a roleplaying game. In the end they can roleplay on irc, but that doesn't make irc a roleplaying oriented game.
[/quote]
sorry duraza long itme no talk but i have to disagree and go with draklar on this one man. i think the devs are responsible and have a responsiblity to push the game in the direction they want and before it was 50% grind 50% rp that was their main goal if i remember right. and there are plenty of steps they can do to accomplish that. i mean put a big square area and just a a quest corner and a monster corner and that doesnt invite rp. put a quest corner a monster corner a rp corner and squish that triangle together and boom you got planeshift =)
-
I would say the opposite. Devs have the full responsibility over rp orientation of a game. Depending on what direction the game is developed into, it'll attract specific player-base. That's why people aren't roleplaying in Quake. If the game lacks roleplaying features, then players can only pretend it's a roleplaying game. In the end they can roleplay on irc, but that doesn't make irc a roleplaying oriented game.
I agree that yes its true that the devs need to implement things that do make rp more easily done for the players. That is their job, to make the game rp possible and to make the mechanics work with rp, etc. However my point was that there isn't a real way they can "enfore" rp. I've always heard that if people don't want to be involved with certain rps or don't like the way on rps that they should just ignore them and that no one should force another to rp. When you put it that way then regardless of what the devs do to make rp more intresting and try to make it more likely for people to rp they can never force a player to rp. In the end its the players decicion whether they want to rp or not and if a high enough number of players don't then this will only be a leveling game regardless of what devs do.
Also let me just say when it comes to rp's about "conflict" everyone is always saying "why bring up good vs evil is so cliche" and things like that. However when you step in the shoes of a player trying to create a different kind of conflict you start to realize that there isn't much other choice currently. Anything else, whether religious, between realms, between cities, or even between the monsters in the labyrinth are very hard to rp out effectivly and usually boring without the right game mechanics or because your not a gm doing an event ignored. For example lets take a religious battle, Laanx vs Talad. Sure in the history they had their problems which each other which should make conflict between those who are under them. However you run into the problem of PC's not taking religion so seriously. They just make it an excuse to say "By Talads name!" or "Praise Laanx." There are some who do but then suddenly it will be a conflict of "Did talad really say that?' "Thats not what I thought Laanx was trying to teach." Then it goes to "thats not in the settings" or "there isn't any proff that was what Laanx was trying to teach in the settings." Lastly "your not a gm so you can't tell me I'm wrong, I'm going to ignore you." The fact is without the proper resources there really isn't alot of conflictual rp we can do without relying on good vs evil. Right now I'm trying to do something different but its moving very slow because game mechanics support none of it and that makes a lack of intrest. I'm not mad but if you expect us to do soemthing different from what everyone feels is "cliche" then we could use a little help doing it ;)
-
The goal, I believe, is to make the game as much roleplaying oriented as possible. Nothing changed in that area. Implementing is a much harder task. The ideas you propose appear extremely time consuming on the development side of things and I'm not sure if the little it may achieve would make it worth it. The art right now is to create larger encouragement for role-playing under minimal cost in form of time for development.
Duraza: If a game pushes player into the world at the very start, leaves out features for other forms of players and keeps roleplayers interested with roleplaying features then you really don't need any enforcement. When I go through entire game, happily having my character grow in experience and suddenly realise I didn't spend even one hour on looking for monsters to hack, then I find that to be a really well designed game. And this did happen.
-
Duraza: If a game pushes player into the world at the very start, leaves out features for other forms of players and keeps roleplayers interested with roleplaying features then you really don't need any enforcement. When I go through entire game, happily having my character grow in experience and suddenly realise I didn't spend even one hour on looking for monsters to hack, then I find that to be a really well designed game. And this did happen.
sorry duraza long itme no talk but i have to disagree and go with draklar on this one man. i think the devs are responsible and have a responsiblity to push the game in the direction they want and before it was 50% grind 50% rp that was their main goal if i remember right. and there are plenty of steps they can do to accomplish that. i mean put a big square area and just a a quest corner and a monster corner and that doesnt invite rp. put a quest corner a monster corner a rp corner and squish that triangle together and boom you got planeshift =)
Yeah yeah alright I agree. Its true. If the devs don't make the game more rp oriented then rpers won't play. If they push more towards rp then more players who like rp will play and less who aren't intrested in rp will play. It makes sense I guess, I just rather not admit being wrong :P
-
dont make me poke your eye duraza! lol
and draklar i know its going to take time and i know some of that isnt easy but i mean there has to be a time frame for it right? i mean the whole policing issue wouldnt be that hard and im sure you can copy and paste say the insides of ojeveda into the insides of hydlaa which i love how that city was made perfect for rping to bad noone goes there without a quest or a craft, other than the occasional few. one of the points im making is i understand it will take a while but whens the time when you say ok we got enough quest and grind options now lets work on the rp?? i would still like to talk to an rp dev if there is one, and if hes or she has time just to talk a bit about somethings and im just asking not demanding so dont get it twisted. i would just like the opportunity to speak. and if not is there maybe an rp counsil becaue i would surely like to apply.
-
The whole development team is working on creating a roleplay atmosphere - there is no one "RP" dev or "RP team." You might want to talk to Xillix if you are interested in settings, but that's as specific as I can get. You mentioned open houses so far, and that's good. But I would really like you to take my previous suggestion and compile a list of features you think are most important for RP. (A list is much easier to browse through than a long paragraph.) You have my attention, so take this opportunity seriously.
-
ok thanks for listening and i'll spend a day or too getting a nice list easy to read, sorry about the long paragraph ran together i worked all day and was to tired to tab lol. should i post it or send a pm? i'd rather a post so others can see and respond but its up to u.
-
Posting would be better - that way we can get a lot more feedback from other players as well. Thanks for giving this a go!
-
This is a tough issue. For some odd reason, many folks assume that roleplaying is just standing around talking, and not running off and killing things. Others assume it is good against evil, and the plots that come from it.
Well, in a way that is true. But, it is also as far from the truth as you can get. To me, RP is action and consequence. It is playing with a purpose and a goal. What I am talking about is the reason. The “Why?”
The RP Conietic is missing is based on the interactions between players that seemed to mean something on a greater level. To him, it mattered who won the battle, or who come out on top in a plot. It mattered because people would continue to react to that plot even after it was past. Players would make it ‘real’.
Why did he rely on that (as well as many of the rest of us)? Well, because at the time, there was no equivalent in the game. There was no purpose for your character. What did it matter to the world if you stopped to kill that rogue, or just ignored it and walked on by? What ill effects came from not going down to the sewers daily and killing rats? It did not even matter how many bad guys people killed while trying to clean out Oja, as they were always right back in a blink of an eye. That reduced NPCs from potential building blocks for RP, to simple forms of mining for items and training.
The simple fact is, your character did not, and still does not matter to the game. It is only through the interactions with other players that it is given any meaning at all. That is not a complaint. It is merely stating a fact AS IT IS NOW. I am sure this will change in the future. Well, I hope it will, anyways.
In the RP Conietic pointed to of mine, it mattered if people did, or did not try to solve the sickness. Certain players were willing to kill off their characters because of it. That is what people really crave, is for their actions to actually matter to events. For that to happen, there -has- to be consequence for failure. Not only that, there has to be the very real chance of failure.
I give you the Shields event that went on recently. It was a very well planned out plot that took players on a whirlwind adventure. Though it was entertaining to watch, it -was- very well planned out, right from the beginning to the end. The end was known and prewritten, with no variables that I saw. There was no chance of failure. There was no chance of anything other than the preplanned plot happening. In that, the individual player character once again did not matter. Had the players not killed the foes and achieved the goal, there was no consequence.
From the little hints I have gathered, the entire story plot for the future of the game is much the same. Things will happen regardless of what players may do or try. I could be wrong, though, so don’t quote me on that.
In the terms of ‘IF> THEN’, if RP is to become part of the coded game, then players must matter.
IF players do this, THEN something will come of it. A new mine is found. A new building comes to be. The price NPCs offer for a certain kind of item changes for good or ill. Small things, but things that players can see they are affecting.
IF players do not do this, THEN… I will burn your cities to the ground.
Not an easy task, and perhaps one that will never be realized. So, until then, Conietic, it is up to you to make yourself matter though interactions with other players.
I would do as miss Karyuu asked, and make your list. I would make a list as well, but the forum is already littered with many, many of my suggestions. In the end, it comes down to this. If characters are to be a true and important part of the game, then they must matter to it.
And Coneitic, the comma and return keys are your friends. If your thought seems to shift a bit into a new point... push return. Twice. Like this:
And draklar [comma] i know its going to take time [comma] and i know some of that isnt easy[comma] but i mean there has to be a time frame for it right? [return, twice]
The whole policing issue wouldnt be that hard[comma, add word ‘as’] I’m sure you can copy and paste say the insides of ojeveda into the insides of hydlaa [period, new sentence] I love how that city was made perfect for rping[period, new sentence] To bad noone goes there without a quest or a craft, other than the occasional few. [return, twice]
One of the points im making is [that] i understand it will take a while[comma] but whens the time when you say ok we got enough quest and grind options now lets work on the rp?? i would still like to talk to an rp dev if there is one, and if hes or she has time just to talk a bit about somethings [period] I’m just asking[comma] not demanding[comma] so dont get it twisted. [hostile tone detected and may be returned] [return, twice]
I would just like the opportunity to speak. and if not is there maybe an rp counsil becaue i would surely like to apply. [umm…???]
-
did i just get a ticket from the grammar police? im sorry it wasnt up to your standards utm. i didnt really feel like it. i have used grammar well before i just wanted to type as fast as i was thinking so i wouldnt forget anything. next time i'll consider your feelings. also thats one thing i don't like about your rp's. they are very well thought of and creative and original. but thats just it they are stories. they are out of a book and it seems your willing to shift a little on certain variables but in the long run you want it to end just how you planned. i belive rp should be different. i think the actions of those who get involved and sucked in by mistake should inevitably change the outcome. you say rp is action and consequence. but if your rp's all end the way they are planned then there can only be minor consequences. in the overrall story there are no major consequences, every action you would therefore tie to a consequence you seem fit to finish the story in your agenda. but thats where we differ on rp. not to say mine is better we just differ. and this is off topic. my goal isnt to have people create an rp that i think is right or that you think is right but to create constant good rp. and not good by standards good as in its not a quick chat on the street, but a charactor that a person creates and must utilize that personality every day to get by. as if that was a world that that charactor was in and is constantly effected by his actions and the actions of others whether they planned it or not. im sure ive explained this already so im just going to work on the list. sorry utm again theres no enter enter comma comma i'll do better next time.
-
there is no "rush" here. there is no prize to post first.
take your time and post legibly or you run the risk of being ignored. use proper netiquette please.
-
That was just a friendly pointer to help get your opinions across better.
As for the rest. Stories? Yes. Planned out? Somewhat, in an IF>THEN way. Flexible? Always. Set in stone ending? Never. But I do not create a baseball bat at the beginning of an RP, and halfway though, let someone try to talk me into saying it is a cannon as well. The story adapts to what players do, and changes. The props do not. You wanted me to change the properties of the ‘cold’ after folks had started figuring out what it was. That is like changing the picture on a puzzle, and modifying the shapes of the pieces as someone is working on it. Let them put it together how ever they like, but NEVER change the picture or pieces once it has been laid out. That is bad form.
-
One thing I do agree with that does bug me is people and how they "pick" which rps they want to get involved. I understand that this is a game and therefore it should be fun for everyone however when I see someone clearly becoming involved with an rp and then suddenly because they don't like whats going to happen to their character they dismiss it OOCLy it annoys me. When someone does not like the way another rps something and dismisses it OOCLy it also annoys me. I don't try to suggest that people shouldn't have the option to be in certain rps but they should come up with IC reasons for ignoring it.
That is excusable to me if the other party is showing very poor RP skills and only into annoying people.
My complaint on the RP portion of this game is that people are way too focussed on 'RP events' and forget that they should be playing as their characters 99% of the time (leaving 1% for OOC clarifications :P). Too many people consider occasionally being part of a big event roleplaying. I don't really. Roleplay doesn't always have to be thrilling or about violent, mindshattering encounters. It is about acting and reacting as your character. A simple chat about the weather can be roleplayed as well.
-
Feature that would be useful for that may be something of this sort:
Speaking character portrait that engages in communication with the player, throwing him certain texts based on PC's personality (determined by char creation) and the current situation.
Monster confrontation:
1) "Creature in sight... This may turn dirty."
2) "Fresh meat coming! Hahaha, we will dine tonight!"
3) "They're coming... Let them come..."
Mining:
1) "I could think of better ways to 'earn' money..."
2) "Die, dirt! Die!"
3) "Mindless hitting at a rock... This is what all my past studies brought me to?"
Confrontation with unliked NPC:
1) "Self-righteous sham..."
2) "What a pansy!"
3) "Ugh! Has he heard about bathing?"
If the texts appeared in seperate box and personalities between player characters would conflict (or fit), there may appear out-of-plot conversations:
- "Did your mother clothe you in dresses too?"
- "It's a robe, you half-wit! A robe!"
It would have at least two pros:
- You are not your character! The fact the portrait speaks to player makes a firm borderline between the two. The distance is needed in roleplaying.
- It's harder to stick out of your role if you have someone portraying the role to you all the time.
The drawback may be in character development. Player may decide to have the char slowly change. It can be done with proper system, but I don't know what could be done with that in the system PS uses.
-
I hate to be blunt, Coneitic, but you leave me no other choice:
If you don't "care about posting" and "don't feel like typing well" then DON'T. If you don't want to take your time typing, chances are that we won't have the time (and patience) reading. To be frank, most of your posts in this thread could be fitted into quite handily into three paragraphs, as you seem to be constantly repeating yourself. Saying the same thing over and over again won't make any difference on the opinion of others.
Additionally, I'd like to point out that you should spend more time thinking before typing. If you forget to mention something you had thought about, chances are that it isn't that important, or actually redundant. It would be really nice if you refrain from posting your brainstorming and stick to writing up proper posts in the future.
Now to get On Topic:
I hope you realize that a vast majority of PS' userbase has other things to do besides playing Planeshift. "RP Events" and other "major" plots require a lot of time and dedication, and many players simply don't have enough free time to grasp the nettle of such large scale RP - Projects. If you want to take part in a bigger storyline and do have the privilege of having enough time it's best to become proactive yourself and organize something. Talk to your friends, get something going, if you put effort into it, the chances of people jumping on the bandwagon and the undertaking growing in size and options are good.
An issue I see with the current state of RP is that people are lost in their single-track of epic RP. Sadly, significant amount of the PSsers seem to regard anything that doesn't involve having Yliakum at stake and rescuing damsels "below their standards". Looking at some of the RPs that have taken place, I am lead to believe that 90% of the inhabitants of Yliakum are either zealous crusaders or vile barbarians. In the rush for "'ze big stuff" people totally forget that small things can be just as much, or even more entertainment than the stereotypical Good vs. Evil and Chaos vs. Law battle. I seriously miss the good old times when Bodacher used to stand on his barrel offering his goods for sale.
-
I hate to be blunt, Coneitic, but you leave me no other choice:
If you don't "care about posting" and "don't feel like typing well" then DON'T. If you don't want to take your time typing, chances are that we won't have the time (and patience) reading.
i dont care if you read it or if most people read it. it was an off day and i stated that it was alot of ranting and not to read it if you didnt want to. those who cared to read it seemed to understand it. Normally i try to make it neat and gramatically correct as possible if you look back at older post. why is everyone so mad about how i wrote the post? if you dont like it dont read it, dont read further post simple as that.
also my whole point had nothing to do with rp events. it was about rp life. a charactor having a life a personality in the game and using it constantly in a different world.
another thing that bugged me was this. i noticed alot of noobs that started when i was playing are now in the game and they maxed their stats. so now they are what seems to be a great. why do i see alot of people that since they max their stats and did a few rps they walk around as if they are an elder? does everyone half to be great? doesnt anyone want to be normal and different? i found it real easy on alts to go "well my stats are maxed and ive been in a few rps, so now im going to walk around like im tough cookies" i'd like to see more people who are still unwise even tho they have been around for a while, those that are still constantly learning and know they cant fight everyone. i mean its easy to just talk smack and then pvp and when u die just move on right? wouldnt it be more challenging and creative to set boundries and know you cant win them all, not only knowing you cant win them all but import that to your charactor and back down out of fights sometimes be the coward? whens the last time you went against someone who had maxed stats and showed a little fear to fight or your opponite showed a little fear. i always liked to see that. maybe thats why coneitic constantly got beat up and cut up. lol
well thats just an opinioin of mine dont freak out people. i remember once in irc i asked why cant people play normal charactors instead of great warriors and great evil genius' and an admin quickly responded "oh thats hard play." sarcasticaly. but i believe it is harder to create a unique personality for a charactor thats not all powerful and godly. UTM is great at that, one of the reasons i admire his rp. try it out with an alt people maybe it will be fun..
now back to that list...
-
i asked why cant people play normal charactors instead of great warriors and great evil genius'
i found it real easy on alts to go "well my stats are maxed and ive been in a few rps, so now im going to walk around like im tough cookies"
wouldnt it be more challenging and creative to set boundries and know you cant win them all, not only knowing you cant win them all but import that to your charactor and back down out of fights sometimes be the coward?
And this leads me to the thing I want the most to be added to the game. Limitations. Its the one thing I find most needed in the game to improve rp. If every character had limits instead of being able to max every skill this game would seem much better to me. Then people would realize they can't be a warrior/mage/master crafter/whatever other stat they haven't maxed yet. It would limit people to being good at some things and bad at others. It would keep every character from somehow being a master at some weapon skill regardless of what they rp their character to be. The fact is if your a miner why can you slay trepors easily? And why are there always these "mage warriors?" That only sounds like an excuse to be an uber powerful character because you have the best of both worlds. Even if you are a mage warrior then you shouldn't be able to master both skills. If we had limits people wouldn't always be so willing to pvp everyone they saw because they may not have the skill.
I think limits would even stop the RP vs PVP arguments that happen so often. PvPers wouldn't be able to max their stats and become uber powerful and RPers wouldn't be able to complain for the fact that the only thing stopping them from winning, if everyone had limits, is a laziness to train their character in the strengths they rp. I know I have my character Duraza who I'm guilty for never training in Dark way yet claiming to be a Dark Way master. However its the fact that I don't want to max his stats and make him some uber warrior that stops me from PvP. I've even changed the way I rp his ability to fit with his stats (making him an old and feeble man). My other character Xeonart I actually do train. However I train him according to limits I placed on his character. When I rp a fight I go by these limits and I want my stats to reflect the same. Yet even though I train him I'm discouraged from PvP because how many characters do you know who share the same idea? I only know a handful who seem to do the same.
My idea is to have a system in which only certain stats can be maxed, others only to half way, and the rest barely past where they started. The two maxed would be your strengths, the mid way skills wouldn't be strength or weakness, and those that are basically the same as they were at character creation your weaknesses. Maybe you would have 4 weaknesses instead but never more than 2 strengths in stats. Giving too many strengths gives the chances for uber warriors. The same basic idea would be applied to skills where you could only learn a certain few. One might question where is the realisticness if we can't surpass our weaknesses? Well think of it this way for one thing not everyone can. Secondly lets say your a warrior but weak agaisnt magic. A simple way to get around that weakness would be anit magic. If your a mage but physically weak a simple way around that is having strong endurance or will. If you have no real strengths then you would most likely be stuck taking a job such as a merchant or just being normal for the fact that thats what you are.
I truely can't see RP becoming as realistic as possible unless a limitation system is put in place. Either that or people would start trying to play by limits, however you can see that many players aren't going to limit themselves on their own. Limits its what would once and for all seperate this game from all those leveling games that don't stress rp. In those games any character can master every skill, in this game that ability should not be possible.
-
People have always been afraid of this game turning into World of Warcraft. When CB came out most of the MB community just left. Their fears were proven false mostly,though. The real reason they left is because PS wasn't their personal 3D chatbox anymore as more and more people joined it. Players often leave and blame the changes to the game, though it's actually the changes to the community. Losing friends is bad, but you can just make new ones and that's what many forget.
I don't think the addition of crafting influenced roleplaying in any way. It just adds dimension, of course some players will be absorbed by it but nothing's wrong with that. The same thing happens in real life too. In the end roleplaying is not about epic stories but about doing things with a reason besides just spending time. I've seen some pretty good smiths and merchants who spend all their time crafting, but did roleplay, just in their way. With "their way" I mean smithing, not saving the world every day. Good roleplayers and guilds find a balance between making money and roleplaying, I've seen some guilds succeeding at that.
-
i belive my point has been spun around and twisted and rewritten and re argued and whatever.
heres my point.
this game is doing great for questers for grinders. if thats your thing thats awsome the game is evolving great that way. if you like the game 50% for grinding then its going great. my point is the rp part is not evolving. i understand alot of it is in our hands that is why im back with a few others to help change that, to do our part. but a certain responsiblity is left int he devs hands. with no motivation to rp with no encouragement then it only gets worse. simple emotes and certain text an npc recognizes does very little. i have no arguement with the game having lots of quest and levels and crafting. my problem is the way the whole game is evolving and doing nothing about the rp. there are plenty of things to do to ensure a welcoming world of rp and i have a list coming just be patient and you can knit pick that all you want. once again questing is not my enemy. the lack of change in the rp is.
and my problem with kada's is simple. once kada left it was a great place for rp and the fact that there were many different bartenders to keep you coming in to have a conversation. friends you knew. people who just wanted to see who was working. also a great way ot make money without grinding. by strict rping. i made quite a bit by runnign to oja and getting all the ales and coming back. i started to afford hiring people to make runs for me and so forth. im not saying everyone needs to just it was a different asspect of the game that was more rp oriented now its an npc and it doesnt have that same feel. hell, even i offered mugs there so it at least looked like you were drinking.
so do you guys understand. im not waging a war against the quest and lvls in the game, im waging a war at the lack of rp evolution in this game. and i really think its the lowest priority on the list. does this make more since?
-
does this make more since?
I don't know,, but that last sentence at least doesn't make much sense.
RP evolution... I don't think Devs can implement that yet. It's really hard to manipulate the brains of the players So badly only with some color and sound of a game.
To get Rp you need player, to have an RP too, To maintain an RP once again you need Players and to start one too. One can even RP in IRC, So RP has got nothing to do wioth the Devs, the only thing (But important IMHO) they do for the RP is to make it more easy to RP. I mean it's easier to RP to be in a bar when there actually is a bar that you can see, it all makes it easier for the mind. It alsoads limits so that it become more realistic, like When you walk from Ojaveda to Hydlaa it takes time, you aren't there by typing "And so Socius traveled from Ojaveda to hydlaa".
-
There already are lots of emotes (use /emote list) but if you know some really important ones that are missing, then tell us!
The NPCs not recognizing much sentences is a known problem (duh), it has been talked about sooooo much that I'm disappointed you bring it up.
Doing nothing about RP? RP opportunities have been rocketing lately! The devs have introduced maps and books you can make for yourself now and there will be a guildhouse very very soon. So that's a weak point.
About the bar: most bars have more than one bartender. What's stopping you from standing next to the bartender and RP like you used to? You don't have to run around for ales anymore, but isn't that handy? It wasn't realistic that Hydlaa had no ales at all anyway.
I'm looking forward to your "List of Improvement".
Just make sure it's a list with depth and reason.
-
i mentioned that emotes and npc statements were a small step i didnt complain about them, i used them as an example as the steps the devs are taking to further rp. and i know it takes players to rp and we are partly to blame most of us who quit didnt help. but some responsibility is left int he hands of the devs thats all im saying, more responisibility than say emotes or npc chatter. and as for guild houses and homes im not to fond of that because in real game time it wont be used much unless you put them in the city and if you do that its going to really lagg the city so i know thats something tricky the devs are thinking about. take dark age of camelot if anyone plays it theres tons of guild houses and player houses and noone visits them really beceause they have to travel to another part of the world to ensure cities wont lag. so as far as houses are concerned unless you make appartments in the city i really dont think they will help with rp community.
*edit*
also i'd like to say this, the majority of rpers from not to long ago know that the rp has gotten horrible in the game. and if you disagree then i truely belive you dont rp or dont find the beauty in it.
-
Threads like this are those that make me very much afraid ...
I'm afraid that someday this wonderful game is discussed to death in the forums ...
and Talad throws it all in the great garbage can saying ... "they just don't want it as it is ..."
BUT !
I WANT IT TO CONTINUE !
-
and Talad throws it all in the great garbage can saying ... "they just don't want it as it is ..."
heh, nah. Talad will continue making PS forever, even if there's no players :P
-
the games beta. everything we whine about, everythign we praise, everythign we chit chat about. helps them make the game greater. if everyone sat down and said thank you sir may i have another, he would never have any insight on how the games going. we are helping far more than hurting.
-
Though hard to understand at times, Conietic has valid opinions and arguments. I will go through some of his points, and give you both sides when I can.
-Kada’s. Is it gone? No. Is the feel it used to have gone? In my opinion, yes. What used to be a place for live person with a true personality that would converse and jibe with folks in chat has now been replaced with a motionless statue that is there for the sole purpose of giving quests and selling drinks. Sure, you can try to RP with an NPC, but to what extent? As stated in another post of mine, talking to an NPC does not really matter one way or the other. Playing a barkeep mattered to people, as the interaction was true. The NPC placed there felt as if it was taking the place of the players that chose to fill that role, and indeed it has. I have not seen a single Player barkeep in there since the NPC was placed. There is no possible way to interact with an NPC in the same way as a player. THAT is what Coneitic means, and I agree.
To fix this, the answer is as simple as giving the bar back to players, and make it truly mean something at the same time. Make it a job. Leave what’s her name behind the bar, but move her away from stage center. That is where a player belongs if they choose. Now, create a new command called /bartend, /shop, or some other such thing. A single person who takes the position of barkeep for that time types /bartend, and a menu of inventory pops up, showing what is for sale. It is very much like opening your own inventory, only it would be the bar’s inventory. If a player asks for a drink, you simply open a trade with them and move the item from the bar inventory to the buyer’s inventory, automatically taking the proper amount of tria from them when they click [Buy]. Yes, that is exactly how NPCs do it. To make it worthwhile for the barkeep(player), as small commission would be put into his own pocket for each sale. Hell, the barkeep could even have access to quests to give out, such as sending another player to get a new barrel of beer from Brado’s when stocks started to get low (in a future system, that is. I know very well the one right now can not handle such a thing)
-<censored>. The <censored>. To tell you the truth, NO ONE has the right to say who is a hero to someone, and who is not. To people who were getting sick of the <censored>, actions taken against it are seen as heroic. To <others> <who wanted to do something in another way> those same actions are seen as stupid. However, you have no right to thrust your opinions on each other as the only ‘right’. <some people> are heroic to some, and an ass to others. Leave it at that and shut up. BOTH sides.
-lol’s, smilies, and netspeak. Yes, I find these disruptive as well. I camouflaged the problem by editing my chat filter to turn the inane gibber into something resembling ‘normal’ speech. Yes, I could have stood there and corrected everyone who spit out an ‘lol’, but is that really my job? Not really. The client could be set up with a filter that auto detected such things and then send a Main Tab message requesting that player uses ‘common’ language in open chat. The nuisance of the message (in bright red) would be more than enough of a hint, and players would never have to step out of character to try to correct someone.
- ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’. Talked to death already. I like to call this lawful and lawless instead, as folks who break the law for their own benefit do not often see themselves as ‘evil’. In any case, though, there is no support for an ‘evil’ character to exist outside of player to player chat. This is a huge determent to actually playing such a character. I do not mean that as only being able to do ‘evil’ onto others, but having to worry about the consequences for doing such an act. I have talked in depth how I would change this already, so will not bother you folks with it again.
- Roleplay. There is still great argument as to what RP exactly is. Some say it is only reacting to the mechanics of the game, what can be seen, heard, and done. To others, it is the person experience of creating and existing as a character. Both are right, and are only two of many, many opinions that are also right. I saw one poster say that power leveling is the opposite of roleplaying. To him, perhaps. But to me, that is just another ‘right’ way to RP if it is done while staying in character. That is the key to RP. Staying in the character you create, whether it is using game mechanics, or only in chat with other players. People who go into the game ‘Just to do stuff’ with no thought put into who they are trying to be is one of the things I would say is NOT RP to me. That mentality seems to be growing a bit, though, and RPers find that scary. The reason for this is that once again the game falls short on telling folks exactly what is expected of them, with no prominent hints or nudges if they start to wander form the accepted path. It is left up to players to try to regulate that, and it should not be. I am not sure what kind of system could enhance the ‘knowledge’ of new players besides a full, step by step training tutorial, and a better Creation system.
That is what I have to say, long winded as it may be. Take it as you may, but remember that they are -my- opinions, and as such can NOT be wrong to me or those that agree with me, just as your opinions can not be wrong for you, and those who agree with you. Respect what others say, or do not open your own mouths.
-
im happy alot of these post are back.
UTM you did an oustanding job there, you really expressed your opinions and some i agree some i dont but im glad it was brought across well done,even the eid point. kada's is a woderful idea even if the /bartend wouldnt be available for a while, the player interaction woudl be great. as for rp i think its simple your a different charactor in a different world. how you create your charactor is your choice. however i think you should limit yourselve on your powers to make it fair to everyone. remember anyone can rp a winner, takes a real rper i think to loose a battle in style. but simply i think you shoudl become your charactor, not you charactor become you. as far as filter goes we have many gms in a small world that shoudl be monitored.. that should be their job. plain and simple. i would gladly offer my time to prevent that if it ment the better of rp.
i belive good vs evil is the only real conflict. but also whats good and evil is different to everyone such as coneitic. he doesnt belive in good or evil just making money. to some thats good to some thats bad but its a constant battle. without a constant or semi-constant policing unit there is no way to properly enforce these rules in rp. no matter what you think is right or wrong the devs should have already handed down a list of the laws in this town we are to follow and should be enforced. like thom said its his opinion just like alot of good and evil is one persons opinion. excluding some factors such as murder and theft.
my biggest fear of this game now really? is that in this stage of beta even tho its still in development alot of devs are not truely listening to its "testers" or "players" and i really belive we all are the key of this games success.
my list will be posted tomorrow. please place all critisism and agreeing under it. maybe it will help the devs understand what the community of thi game want and dont want and better help them. im not doign this for me for i know that most of these if not all will be dismissed. i am simply giving my view of the game as a tester.
-
I beg to differ on the Devs not listen to the testers and players. Thay are, in fact, listening very closely. Most of the time, however, they can not simply snap their fingers and have things changed to the way we would want them, even if they do agree.
PS is an oceanliner. You can't turn it on a dime. But, I have seen it turning.
-
i belive good vs evil is the only real confli
nah, who can label good and bad? no one really. And actually conetic, I hate to shock you but here goes.
Theres more then just "wham bam thank you mam!" rping...
Role play is not the uber struggle between good and evil, most rping is actually just passing by someone and saying "hello"
or going to the tavern for two minutes and having a friendly chat... robberies, wars, and crap like that are foot notes to my definition of Role playing. If you ask me role play is quite alive, just because your version of great players have vanished doesn't mean role play has died.
-
Respect what others say, or do not open your own mouths.
I have gone through the task of cleaning up the childish insults and mud flings that were made throughout this thread.
Just as a firm but friendly last warning, next person to cause me to remove something gets a timeout from being able to post on these forums. I ask you to keep in mind the quoted text above as you type your responses.
-
Actually, Earl, that is what he is saying in his posts. He misses -all- forms of RP, not just the mondo-end-of-the-world ones.
/me reviews his previous post, then glares at neko.
You just lost a ton of respect with me, sir.
I do NOT appreciate being quoted in saying people should respect other’s words and opinions, and in the same stroke, censoring what I have to say about people disagreeing, and how they should just accept others opinions as personal views.
-
Actually, Earl, that is what he is saying in his posts. He misses -all- forms of RP, not just the mondo-end-of-the-world ones.
Yes. I have to admit rp isn't exactly "dead." There still are people who do the rps Earl is refering to like just saying "hello" to someone on the street. However for an rp game I think the point is we aren't seeing enough of it. Simply I think the problem is there is too much OOC talking (without even using brakets) and not enough people caring for the IC part of the world. For an RP game I'm not seeing nearly as much rp as there should be. Sure talking OOC isn't bad but some people are starting to ignore the IC aspects of the game period.
-
Im not only reffering to that particular post, im saying in general you can't say rp is dead or dying. I believe firmly that most ideas of rp dying off spawns when people see good role players become inactive, like bodacher, xillix, proglin, zorbels. etc etc
And really I don't see it that way at all. One cannot judge baised on 20 minutes of playing... thats all im saying.
Which im sure was already said but I needed to reinforce that thought because I get the feeling that in these kinds of threads most posts get over looked... hence why its still going on.... in...a...big...circle....yeah
(without even using brakets)
yes I agree with this duraza, but you must understand most of those people don't even know what RP means. because they're new, true some new players instantly know how to rp, but most do not. You cannot expect them to know without being told.
-
i belive theres a misconception, just because i said i logged on a day and then freaked out doesnt mean i just played for 20 min. i have been hopping on quite frequently with alts. because mainly of coneitics entrance and also i wanted to be able to observe the game before i dove right back to how i was in it. i think you missed my point earl its not about epic battles and great good vs evil as ive stated many times. its about casual rp. just saying hello or chatting for 2 min is not rp to me its chatroom talk. i do admit when i go i go big but what i like is not that everyone is going big its everyones reaction. seeing peoples reaction to me and judging their rp. its very easy to see when someone is just stating their opinion in IC form or is stating their opinion through their charactors IC form. and that to me is what is lacking. not people saying Hail and Aye and Hello. but seeing people create a charactors personality and constantly trying to react to situations as that charactor would. i hope that clears it up. if not blame it on the alcohol.
also if anyone was on tonight me gwinn duraza and eid started somethign that was big and was excelent rp. i got to see people strive to bring their charactor into it and i also got to see people just reacting to as if it was them. in the middle of it we were able to help a new player which made it double the fun. we helped him and introduced him to rp. just because i say like to go big and creat big events out of the blue just to get a rise out of people. doesnt mean i expect people to do it. i find it very easy to draw a big crowd and thats not what i enjoy like i stated before i enjoy seeing peoples charactor respond to it not people respond to it.
*edit*
lol i take that first line back... There has been a HUGE HUGE misconception of what i said lol. but i take half the blame on that.
-
(without even using brakets)
yes I agree with this duraza, but you must understand most of those people don't even know what RP means. because they're new, true some new players instantly know how to rp, but most do not. You cannot expect them to know without being told.
Yes I've been told that many a time :sweatdrop: . However I have two points to make against this. Firstly if its true that they are just new then why isn't anyone trying to teach them about rp or encourage them to do it? Secondly I mentioned to have tried to help some people get into rping. I used a couple different characters (because trying to use Duraza doesn't usually work with newbies..) but each time failed. From what I gathered they just didn't want to rp. Maybe I'm wrong and that my skills at teaching rp are just horrible (hopefully not else the fault is mine for discouraging players from rp) but either way it seems to me most new players just play to get skills and weapons. Some I can bet are rpers or will go to rping but right now I have no proof agaisnt what I've said.
-
teach the basics of game play via brackets, tell them to use brackets when not speaking IC'ly... keep them under your wing for the next few weeks and baby them in rping until they can stand ont heir own both oocly-IG and ICly-IG
thats what I did to all my apprintaces you can see a few of them on the forum today, or in game... not to toot my own horn...
Ok im tooting my own horn.
I heard a quote here that applies to many new comers "Be patiant for the very young do not always do as they are told" Something like that, it was from SG-1 a long while back so my memory about it is hazey.
I have yet to find a new player who when using the 'vesper of laanx' strategy of teaching, wont become an excellent role player...
first teach them about the game, show them the forums, get them stabalized oocly, show them around
then explain RP oocly, and hold their hand for the next week or so.
ta-da, I don't see how it goes wrong unless they out right vanish the next day.
-
I have yet to find a new player who when using the 'vesper of laanx' strategy of teaching, wont become an excellent role player...
Funny thing is it was a person from that very guild who helped me with my first character and taught me about rping...I am eternally thankful to him :thumbup:
I guess it just doesn't work as well for me though because I'm always busy playing as different characters so I don't have as much time to spend watching a new player learn. I teach them the basics and always try to teach them how to use the /me and /my commands (they are my favorites). Maybe I'm just a bad teacher....
-
earl brings us back to the point of "if the the game is ment to be rp and grind.. why is the grind left to the devs and the rp left to us?"
-
Coneitic, use your time to work on that list and not to repeat points already made.
-
yes ma'am
-
i see no criminals anymore in the game and from resorces am told they are barely around. it just ruins the game if you cant get robbed or assaulted just by logging in thats part of what makes an rp world. constant good vs evil battles if its a small pickpocketing and arrest to a major battle headed by the elemental light and outlaws. not sure if EL is still around. and why in the world is there an npc at kada's? since she left that has been the prime RP spot.
The main problem is that there aren't the resources to be a villian without the good guys agreeing to it. If pickpocketing (takes a random item under a certain size, or trias, possible to spot the person), a low level spell that would keep people from running (If you've heard of Neverwinter Nights, the comparison would be "hold") were available, and full pvp existed (maybe a list of everyone in the area, with a like/dislike ability, and very strict rules about it (such as--MUST have an rp reason, no interaction for 24 real hours unless otherwise agreed upon by both the killer and the killed, a cap on the number that can be killed within a time limit, and a flag for any player that kills another without 'x' lines of dialogue between them in that area within a talking radius, or a tell warning them that they're in for a possible assassination)). There would have to be strict enforcing, and the ban stick would have to be applied liberally for abuse. VERY liberally. However, it would be in the GM's hands as to what was acceptable, and they'd have to come up with a standard to enforce. Petitions would be the main way to report it. Also, we'd need guards that did something while in town.
---
On improving rp in general:
Another thing that could be cool is a private rp rating, that gives you a certain amount of exp. per ingame hour, and is set by the GMs when they see you rping well, or decently, and can fluctuate between being high and low (depending on quality of rp--you get less for mindlessly grinding, and more if you're rping beyond a certain level, at the GM's digression within a set group of guidelines). It should give comparable exp. to killing monsters (perhaps monster xp rates should be lowered, as well, to make training harder, and the trias needed lowered (quite a bit) as well--and then make gold harder to mine :P Right now, all people need massive amounts of trias for is training, so the only real reason to amass that number of trias is to go on a training binge). Perhaps bounty hunting, as well, would be a good thing to implement (hunting extra strong NPCs for a bounty, that're randomly spawned with a name and then added to some sort of board that says their name, a *description* (for IC recognition purposes only) and they loot what they were using, and their head (captured head, or the like), which a npc will buy for 1000-10000 trias, depending on how difficult the enemy was ("is considered: *danger level* and, if targeted, should be attacked with caution"). Perferably they would be far away from the roads, have some guards, and not move unless attacked, in which case when you attack them, they can run and it would probably take a few (3-5) players of a skill level comparative with the enemy's danger level. Spawning them randomly throughout the map would be good (with exceptions for cities/BD guard area, of course).
In closing, if this is going to be an rp game, the dev team needs to make it HARD to grind. Make it less rewarding to grind then to rp. MUCH less rewarding. Make it so that player's main source of xp is roleplay, the better, the more xp. Make it so that grinding doesn't help you very much (perhaps a "day-endurance" that lowers when you craft something/dig something up, related to the run endurance, that resets every IG day. This would keep people from grinding mining and the like (of course, make it easier to level up trade-skills, because of this). Enforce a level of RP, and use the ban/xp drain/delevel stick liberally on those who obviously metagame (OOC information ICly), godmod (dictate what their actions do, to the determent of others--it's fine if you RP missing, but you can't hit every time, doesn't make sense), or abuse the death realm as a means of transportation. I know, sounds hard for the GM team to do, but it can be done (I've seen this done before in NWN, that's where I'm getting most of these ideas, and with a smaller team of DMs then there are GMs here, from what I know of it. I will admit, the server is capped at 60 players there (what's the average online here? It'd make policing here hard, that much I'll admit. Might need more GMs.), but it almost always is full, or past full (61/60) during daytime (est) hours, and I haven't seen it drop below 20 people (5 in the morning, EST) without a crash or reset).
-
good point garan. i figured you'd be tired of grinding by now! lol
-
The thing that makes people grind is the Progression Point system because its entirely geared towards killing stuff and paying extortionate amounts of money for training. I hear they are rethinking it though anyway.
-
Another thing that could be cool is a private rp rating, that gives you a certain amount of exp. per ingame hour, and is set by the GMs when they see you rping well, or decently, and can fluctuate between being high and low (depending on quality of rp--you get less for mindlessly grinding, and more if you're rping beyond a certain level, at the GM's digression within a set group of guidelines).
You have to realize just how much grief the GM team will get if people see them judging roleplay and trying to figure out who is doing a good job. There will be cries of abuse, favoritism, and how no GM is ever on during some person's timezone so they never get the benefit of this system. It's going to be pure madness.
On enforcing roleplay, I'm strongly against this, as are many other developers. We encourage, not enforce here. Enforcing may mean driving away people with potential who are not ready or willing to roleplay just yet. Many people with whom you have enjoyed great roleplays with did not start out as they are now, and they may not be here at all if they were greeted in the beginning by a GM waving a banstick.
-
encourage and push.... not enforce =)
-
System with GMs rewarding roleplaying isn't something new... But the only place I've seen it in had actually an income... One that could be then used to pay the GMs... for their hard work.
-
i know its not new. and gms dont work that hard. not to knock you guys but its not that tough of a job, any gm will agree.
-
You have to realize just how much grief the GM team will get if people see them judging roleplay and trying to figure out who is doing a good job. There will be cries of abuse, favoritism, and how no GM is ever on during some person's timezone so they never get the benefit of this system. It's going to be pure madness.
Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs ;)
-
and im almost positive it would be easy to just take that banner away....... and make hte commands anonymous
-
and gms dont work that hard. not to knock you guys but its not that tough of a job, any gm will agree.
No way did you just say that.
-
I jumped ingame to check this:
At the moment there's nearly 200 players online. We're reaching the hours of the highest activity and still there's no Game Masters online. Should we require Game Masters to evaluate players' roleplay, we'd need them set in such places as Hydlaa plaza, Hydlaa streets, Kada's tavern, the arena, Ojaveda streets, Broken Doors tavern, The Eagle, Levrus' Shop, the library and Death Realm at any given time.
That means 10 spots of potential player activity that would require constant GM patrolling, all day long. And this goes besides their usual activities. Just for a single feature. To do this we'd need to require Game Masters spending much more time ingame, for free. Considering they don't do it right now, I don't suppose they would be all that okay about it. Most likely we'd get much less players deciding to take up this function and that would mean even more work on the remaining ones. In return, this would make us require even more time spent ingame and even more Game Masters dropping out. In the end only the most dedicated people will remain (before getting tired and frustrated, in the end leaving as well).
-
and gms dont work that hard. not to knock you guys but its not that tough of a job, any gm will agree.
No way did you just say that.
i did and i stand by it. i have made friends with many gm's. the majority of them enjoyed being on when i was to listen. heres a run down of their jobs. hide in a corner... listen to shouts auction, sometimes regular speech. find inappropraite behavior. hop on to IRC inform of what the incident was and what they are doing to fix it. then fix it. also they recieve tells of people complaining and quest problems. and they answer it if they dont know it they ask in irc and then answer it. that is not a hard job, very easy to do especially when the max amount of people is only 200.
and thats a great idea bout the gm's draklar. only problem is this. i applied to be a gm once. i was told the mian thing i had to know was game mechanics and quest. i spoke of being an RP GM to help control encourage and filter rp. that was shot down in a second.
i have been told in the recent year many gms have been leaving due to being treated as players when it comes to the game. their ideas shot down and deleted from forums. so what does that leave? people who are playing other games so they can actually play a game and just alt tabbing to find tells. and i know for a fact i am not wrong on this part because i have spoken with many gms in the past and recently.
-
Where are you guys getting all these ideas about things being deleted from the forums lately? Please stop making such assumptions, because it's incredibly aggravating and most of all false. I don't have the energy to deal with all these wild conclusions all at once, so if you have a question about something like that or hear it from someone, check with me before you go on posting it as something definitely true. And check with Kerol as well.
Not everything you hear is true, folks!
-
i gathered the information of post being deleted from 3 other gms' and i dont want to state their names. thats what i am going on you might be right they might be lying. i have no idea if they are or not but who do i belive?
and at the moment im talking about gm post being deleted.
-
Sure some GM posts get deleted - they may be caught in a crossfire with someone and things get too heated, so a thread may be cleaned up. It's happened. Happened to me as well. But when it comes to "their ideas shot down and deleted from the forums," that's crazy talk.
-
So here it goes the infamous list.
Brief introduction, i know not all will agree and i know most will not happen but as a tester
i feel its my duty to give opinions and ideas, considering most likely, we play the game more
than the dev's. also this is in no way an attack on having quest or lvls or crafting, i think
that aspect of the game has been moving along great and constantly improving i commend on that.
its just... the rp.... here it goes
1. Open Housing.
I would like to see more buildings "hollowed" out. As ive stated numerous times i
learned the majority of my trias and role playing skills playing a bartender in Kada-El's
tavern. I belive it would encourage people to open buisneses and create a positive rp interaction
instead of just spamming the auction channel with WTB WTS WTT one liners. Some buildings already
are large enough to say hold a few shops, maybe just throw in a floor some walls and a counter.
one of the things i love about Oja is the open buildings. It gives a great chance for people to
make trias without the constant grind. and i would like to point out i in no mean this be the
"housing" that is intended in the final version. i am against that but thats another topic.
These buildings offer the best encouragement for rp interaction with minimal changes. I mean do
we really need an NPC to do everything? when i was a bartender i would buy rat hides from noobs
just to help them along with learning the game. of course they would have to rp the sale for me
to buy it =)
2. Militia
I would like to see a realtime, realactive, realplayer policing unit. It would create
constant rp interaction and truely encourage drama. there are several ways to do this. One would be
having GM's handle it. Another would be a Individualy picked squad of alts with a higher skill level
or even a single individual picked put in charge of creating a group. The laws they would enforce would
be handed down by the system of government already in place. Then im sure comes to mind "what if they
abuse powers and become corrupt" as with most policing units in the world. The GM's could monitor them.
by complaints or what they see. also i belive civilians should be able to fight back tho they might not win
they should either have some chance or at least a chance with numbers. this way balancing the crime vs police
seesaw. This idea i belive would be the easiest to implement seeing as how it would take no update and since
this is a beta its worth a shot to see how it works. if not enough policing units are on at most times then
you recruit more. if they abuse power or show they cant handle it responsibley they are stripped of it. maybe
a quest or two to determine if you qualify for it combined with game activity and experience? of course this
way would require no special skills givin which woudl be fine. player based community =)
3. GM Intervention
I would like to see GM's interven more with the world of Yliakum. maybe a way to make their commands
anonymous to us but not to a server log. Therefore they could patrol the land and keep it appropraite without
blowing their cover. I would like to see them encourage more RP even if its just random people and new people.
i understand we the testers have a responsiblity to promote and imply RP to the community but should the
responsibility rest solely on our shoulders? as they are game moderators they could moderate the RP community
not only be filtering out inappropriate actions but also moderating a newbies adjustment to the world as well
as testing and pushing more experienced players to continue role playing. And lastely i would like to see under
this section GM Intervention with Occasional RP's going on. Not Everyday not once a week but randomly. if an rp
is going on whether planned or spontaneous and its starting to grow maybe a few commands can be given to them to
encourage the rp to go further. maybe bring an element of supprise into the rp. something they can do thats creative
and enjoyable. If say someone is cursing the gods and say laanx speaks back "feel my wrath" and all of a sudden
monsters are in the plaza targeted on the blasphemist it woudl make people get more involved. or say the statue started
to glow or fire errupted. you know something in that nature. not only would people get a kick out of it and really
enjoy it, they would strive to continue rping more and more in the off chance something could happen. and it doesnt
have to be something big. it could be say someone who is asking for an apple because they cant reach the tree and rping
that well all of a sudden all the trees could drop a galore of apples. just examples you guys are the creative ones.
and i want to stress for all this the importance of making gm's anonymous with their commands. just to add im talking minor intervention not big helping on rps that effect the world. think small not large.
4. GM's In General
GM's are there to moderate inappropriate behavior and help with stuck issues and quest. how long do you expect
a person to stay a gm when they cant even play the game?!?!??! a simple taking away of the banner and making commands
anonymous would fix this greatly. they could moderate the game from the inside and really take part in the game. As
for events, they are a joke. they take away from rp. people see the banner and oooooo i might get a reward lemme go do what
they say. more events form anonymous gms without rewards would boost more rp even with the slight hope they might get a reward.
maybe even a set of gm's solely for rp. as if thats their main job.
5. The Chat box
i cannot belive the chat box was taking away. that completely hinders rp. heres an example =)
RP in arena in last year's version:
Drahlian: Greetings Sir Coneitic.
Coneitic: Hello Drahlian. How have your travels been lately?
Drahlian: Very well. I've been fortunate to not see many dwarves lately.
Now, the same conversation in the current version without Chat tab:
Drahlian: Greetings Sir Coneitic.
Freddie changes to a bloody stance.
Freddie changes to a bloody stance.
Freddie changes to a defensive stance.
Susan changes to a bloody stance.
The rogue is badly wounded.
Freddie changes to a bloody stance.
Coneitic: Hello Drahlian. How have your travels been lately?
Freddie changes to a bloody stance.
Freddie has killed the Rogue.
Susan changes to a normal stance.
Henry attacks Gladiator.
Drahlian: Very well. I've been fortunate to not see many dwarves lately.
Henry changes to a bloody stance.
The Gladiator is badly wounded.
Freddie changes to a bloody stance.
[THE SERVER IS NOT RESPONDING]
this was givin to me in a PM by.. well i'll let you guess. and it hits the nail on the head. this completely
takes away the feel for rp and puts the fact its a game into perspective. and i know this is a game so dont knit pick at
that line.. just when you rp you should try to take that factor out and like ive said many times. become the charactor
not let the charactor become you.
6. RP counsel
This is an important aspect i think is missing in the game. when i asked to speak with a gm dev once i was told
"there is no one RP dev we all work together on it". i think this is a big mistake. i belive there should be a counsil of
rp players solely for rp. it should be made up of testers and gms and maybe a dev or to and used solely to enhance rp in the game.
it would be a great way for devs to speak specifically with tester and such about ways to improve rp. who better to explain
the pro's and con's of rp in the game than the ones playing the game only for that? the counsel can be selected how ever
you judge on skills and talents or exp or whatever, thats your call just please implement this i think its very vital to the growth
of rp in this game.
7. PP for Rp
what about getting pp for rp? engaging in roleplaying for say 10 min gives you 1 pp. the longer you stay and rp the
more pp you get. larger the crowd more pp you can obtain. i do not know a way for coding with this but it does fall into the
anonymous gm's job. it would intensely encourage and push people to rp.
8. Kada-El's Tavern
GIVE US BACK THE TAVERN!!!!!!!!!! im almost positive Kada would rather her bar be handled by the players than by some lame
NPC.
9. Marriage
So people can just randomly marry someone? what is that how is that good rp? why not make that option available after you reach
a certain level in crystal way, or as a follower of laanx or specific quest that unlock that ability. there fore they must speak to
a qualified "priest" or whatever and promote more rp.
10. Actions
what is with this sneezing? how are u supposed to rp with someone when they are sneezing every 2 seconds? its not even spanned out.
if they are sitting down they stand up and sneeze and sit back down every 2 seconds. its retarded. hahahaha funny joke.. it sucks seriously.
ruins the atmosphere.
There. 10 changes that could be made rather easily and greatly fix the rp aspect of the game. remember these are ideas, and any
examples i used with coneitic are just examples. i in no way imply that it should be done how i did it. Also this is beta meaning
test so why not try these things out? it wont hurt anything and can be deleted if doesnt work. i think the mindstate is of a final game
thats not finished.. not a testing game thats not finished. the new clients are like patches more than updates. Also please dont respond with
"we have been working on it, it takes time" i understand it takes time but come on, i've been through like 4 or 5 brand new clients and hell,
so much new stuff has been added that that would almost be an insult. i also understand that many list like this have been presented and been
dismissed just as easily or easier than created. so i am prepared for that.
If any of this is appealing and you would need help i would gladly do so. and i dont mean i expect to be apart of any of the changes whether mine
or anothers so please dont take this as me using an effort to become a gm or a higher person in the game. not to say im against it just its not my
intention.
and i wanted to add i understand i cant just sit back and complain so i have come back to the game to do my part to help... before anyone tries and point that out
-
I'll jump right in.
1. Open Housing.
Current house models are not going to be redone to create more open space - Hydlaa is a largely residential city. However do keep in mind that it's not completed yet, even as it is now - there will be more sections in the future, and I will try to make sure they all have enough open houses for players to utilize. So I'm in agreement there and I will work towards this.
2. Militia
An interesting idea right now, but of course you have to answer the question of how they will handle those who refuse to RP, or refuse to RP with the militia members and instead do whatever they want? Are these people going to be punished by GMs? Will we be enforcing roleplay then instead of encouraging it? I can see a guild of dedicated, trustworthy players roleplaying guards - with dev approval - but they will run into problems. How do you foresee them dealing with such scenarios?
3. GM Intervention
I believe the GM team is discussing something of this nature. I'm not free to give out any details, unfortunately, but some ideas and thoughts are floating around internally. But many of the RP scenarios you suggested in this topic are simply not possible due to engine restrictions. The statue is a static object and cannot move, we cannot create spontaneous fire effects, apples cannot plummet from trees in a group, and monsters cannot spawn randomly and attack a specific target. So we have to work with what is possible at this stage, and it may not be a very impressive list just yet. Also keep in mind once again that not every RP will have GM and Settings approval, no matter how awesome players may think it to be. It can be a really big event and draw a lot of attention, but if it doesn't align with the way Yliakum should be, it's just not going to get any official help.
4. GM's In General
GMs can play the game whenever they have time. Many choose not to because they prefer using their new status to help players. And please don't insult the GMs efforts right now. Saying that something is a joke and takes away from RP when the GM team is trying so hard to make this game fun for you guys, is incredibly rude. So tone down your words, because respect goes both ways. Everyone here is trying very hard - do not under any circumstances downplay someone's efforts. I am very serious about this. Anonymous GM events ties in with #3, and something like this is being discussed as I stated.
5. The Chat box
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can you not choose what messages get sent to the main tab? Get back to me on this please after you check. You may be able to move the system messages out of there entirely and never see them, so this issue may be irrelevant.
6. RP counsel
I already addressed this, and it's not going to change. Everyone on the dev and GM teams is concerned about RP, and everyone works towards it. We don't need a separate team for this. Your suggestion is like trying to take what is already in our mindset and create a separate appendage for it. It would be absolutely useless, and inefficient.
7. PP for Rp
There is no way to code this, no way to judge when you are roleplaying and when you are not. GMs are not going to judge anyone's roleplay and give them PP rewards. People would cry about abuse and favoritism, and we are not going to go there. This suggestion is simply not possible.
8. Kada-El's Tavern
The settings team will move the current bartender to the side, so that players can have that space again. This is a simple request, but we would have been more more open about it if it was voiced differently in the beginning. Ask, don't demand. Suggest, don't order. We can't please everyone all the time, but we're open to making changes if people raise a good, calm argument. Keep this in mind next time. Ease off the caps and exclamation marks - it's not a life-or-death situation, it's not a crisis. Good netiquette will earn you much much respect.
9. Marriage
If people "randomly" marry someone, that's their problem. You are supposed to roleplay and marry when your characters have decided upon it. Don't blame the system, it's not being abused. But marriage being available only when you have a certain skill level..? How does that make sense? It doesn't. Involving a priest however sounds like a good idea, except players can roleplay priests right now too. Everything is in your hands, guys. You just have to use it. If you want an NPC and a different system for marriage, propose a detailed idea in the Wishlist and we can take it from there.
10. Actions
That's the idle animation, and every game has one. If you think the female Ynnwn's is too extreme, we can try to rework it. Now if the idle animation plays when you sit, that's a bug and we are going to fix that as soon as we can. Tone down your words, again. Don't insult people's work.
Be careful with assuming that some changes is easy, too. Unless you're a programmer or a game artist, it's often hard to understand the difficulty in many of the wishes players have. Some things may take a few minutes to change, and some we have been working on for three years and are still not finished with. Just be careful with expecting things to happen at a certain time, because it sucks to have to deal with disappointment later.
-
Also please dont respond with
"we have been working on it, it takes time" i understand it takes time but come on, i've been through like 4 or 5 brand new clients and hell,
so much new stuff has been added that that would almost be an insult. i also understand that many list like this have been presented and been
dismissed just as easily or easier than created.
so out of all that you move kada over a few feet?
you give the same reasons that have been giving for months and update after update.
1. I.E. low priority for you guys.
2. finding reasons not to do it rather than trying it. like i said this is beta. instead of trying to forsee problems that might arise. try to forsee how it might help. u give a explenation of people who dont want to rp. that falls under a GM's problem not the militia.. the militia is there for the rp'ers and the rp'ers alone.
3. "we are working on it" same old excuse.
4. i understand they work and im thankful but i do not believe they should be put so high on a pedestal as you dont belive eid should have been...
5. thats perfect for us who play alot... what about the noobs? i didnt see where it told me that option as i downloaded or installed the game.
6. translation: rp is not high on our list. we all discuss it and talk about it... but then the next installment has no implementation of rp factors. do... and how often do all you devs play the game?
7. Understood.
8. thanks if you were implying i was demanding.. all these were suggestions and plain asking. and please if your going to move her at least put her under the painting or maybe by the fireplace.
9. maybe i wasnt clear. people should marry you who have the skill... i dont think anyone can just marry themselves. i think you should have to obtain a license persay through a quest or a high faction with the temple of laanx. having to bring in a third party rp'er who can marry the two would add to the effect.
10. idle?? every 2 seconds isnt not idleing its spamming.
-
so out of all that you move kada over a few feet?
That's not Kada, first of all, and that's the only change we can make that quickly. I cannot snap my fingers and create engine features, nor can I organize GM events or reorganize the GM structure. What did I say about expecting things to happen at a certain time? Relax, Coneitic. I know you're eager to see new things happen, but they take time. How is saying "That's all?" encouraging to us?
you give the same reasons that have been giving for months and update after update.
That is because those reasons are still true. Would you rather me be honest with you, or invent some bizarre conspiracy that has all the devs cackling in the background about how we're going to turn PS into the next Silkroad? If you're not satisfied with the reasons I gave you, I can only apologize. I don't have any others.
1. I.E. low priority for you guys.
New areas are not a low priority for us. They just take a lot of skill and a lot of time to put together, not to mention planning. It takes the whole team - artists to create the map and its assets, engine to make sure it loads in the game without issues, settings to fill it with life and give it a story.
2. finding reasons not to do it rather than trying it. like i said this is beta. instead of trying to forsee problems that might arise. try to forsee how it might help. u give a explenation of people who dont want to rp. that falls under a GM's problem not the militia.. the militia is there for the rp'ers and the rp'ers alone.
I'm not finding reasons not to do it, Coneitic. Don't be presumptuous. But before we embark on anything in this project, we have to discuss as many ins and outs as we can and make sure some problems are eliminated right from the get-go. If we put all our effort into something and just say "What the heck, we'll just see how it goes," we might be wasting even more time in the long-run. By discussing potential issues before they arise, we save time that we can then spend elsewhere developing the game. So instead of brushing my reply off, please consider it and give me a thought-out reply. You have a developer listening to you, so use this opportunity to the best of your abilities. Saying "That's not their problem" in a scenario isn't making the problem disappear. It's delegating it to someone else who then has to brainstorm on something you created. Get back to me on this.
3. "we are working on it" same old excuse.
How are you not being rude right now? Take a step back and consider how your words may appear to me and other developers and Game Masters. We are working, and on many different things at once. Some changes happen that sometimes set something back to the beginning - Kerol was made GM Team Leader not too long ago in the Big Picture, and he's done some really great things with the team already. But these things take a while. Sometimes longer than we'd all like, team members included, but not everything can be rushed. When I tell you that something is being worked on, I'm being honest. This is an idea that is being discussed, and although I cannot tell you when anything will be finalized, because we just don't know yet, I am sure you will see some results in the future.
4. i understand they work and im thankful but i do not believe they should be put so high on a pedestal as you dont belive eid should have been...
It's not a matter of being put on a pedestal, Coneitic. It's a matter of being respectful. Saying that a GM's efforts to improve roleplay via events is a joke, is very rude. GMs often spend hours working on an event, and staying up late into the night to make sure it is completed and the players leave happy. If you don't like the quality of events, that's a perfectly acceptable opinion to hold. But if you want to be taken seriously and if you want the GMs to respond to you with courtesy, you must extend it to them and not insult the work they do.
5. thats perfect for us who play alot... what about the noobs? i didnt see where it told me that option as i downloaded or installed the game.
Newbies are advised to read guides before they jump into the game. An overwhelming majority don't, but we also cannot make the game installation into a giant tutorial and a guide right there and then. They will miss some things, inevitably. However they can always ask, and they will always get answers - if not in the game itself and via support on the forums. We can discuss making the system messages pull out of the main tab by default if you'd like. If you put together a small summary of what messages should and should not appear in the main tab, that would help.
6. translation: rp is not high on our list. we all discuss it and talk about it... but then the next installment has no implementation of rp factors. do... and how often do all you devs play the game?
You don't need to make this hard on me, Coneitic. I'm not here to ruin your game or destroy your RP. I'm here to help you. So if you can back off on this attitude, I will seriously appreciate it. We're mature people, we can discuss this without snide remarks. I will just ignore such comments in the future entirely, so be careful with what you say.
8. thanks if you were implying i was demanding.. all these were suggestions and plain asking. and please if your going to move her at least put her under the painting or maybe by the fireplace.
She'll be put to the side of the bar, as far as I understand. Her position is easily changed however, so we can tweak as necessary if the first move isn't the best for you guys. (But, I don't consider all caps and a dozen exclamation marks "plain asking.")
9. maybe i wasnt clear. people should marry you who have the skill... i dont think anyone can just marry themselves. i think you should have to obtain a license persay through a quest or a high faction with the temple of laanx. having to bring in a third party rp'er who can marry the two would add to the effect.
Okay, thanks. I misunderstood the original suggestion. I like the idea, maybe we can take it to the Wishlist and get it polished some more.
10. idle?? every 2 seconds isnt not idleing its spamming.
And that's exaggerating :) The idlevar1 animation does not play every two seconds. We will see if it can be redone. Again, we can't do this immediately, but it has gone on my To-Do.
-
We understand that people liked to play bartender and that's fine. But the fact they had no bartender was an oversight, not an intent. People asked us for a bartender and we complied. I happen to like Allelia. I think she'll be fine at the side and behind the bar, but I'm not moving a bartender to the fireplace. Busy taverns like Kada-El's can have more than one bartender.
It's funny how mention that open housing in Ojaveda is good, because I don't think I've ever heard of one complaint that Brado exists, and I don't think I've ever heard of people roleplaying behind the then-empty House of Wheat or alchemy shop. Nobody complained that it was ruining their RP when Orchibaly and Vladovic were added.
We'll be happy to look into open housing in the future, and it will probably happen, but it will fall to the PCs to use them.
-
for one oja is a great city... except the fact 1 or 2 people are there at a time and no complaints are usually due to inactivity.
now i know i got a little rude and i apologize. but the whole take time thing is played out. there are plenty of things especially the policing unit that has been around for months years even.. and u say you guys need time to talk about it. alot of the things on the list have been around for a while from other people. i know things take time. but constant use of the phrase gets worn out. especially when there has been ample time. and certain aspects have been entered into the game where the same coding could have been duplicated for rp. take.... take the new oven by harns would it not have been just as easy to place a hut there? a couople of huts next to harns where people can stand and sell things so the auction and the shout isnt spammed with merchants? youve got to understand i know this takes time and things dont happen at the snap of a finger... but how long is time? would a deadline be so bad? would maybe putting one project to the side to work on another be rough.
and as for the gm comment being a joke.... it is a joke by rp standards and i stand by that statement. whether the planning took long or someone tried very hard to make it work. if you look at it through the eyes of roleplay.. its a joke as ive said before its not getting people involved with a role play.. its everyone seeing a banner and saying ooooo what kind of reward can i get.
also you never commented on the changing of the gm banner and making gms anonymous... could you simply change the color from yellow to light green? then it wouldnt look so bad.
and the gm intervention. your explenation of what would work and wouldnt work is perfect. i couldnt agree more so how about we implicate that.
-
take the new oven by harns would it not have been just as easy to place a hut there? a couople of huts next to harns where people can stand and sell things so the auction and the shout isnt spammed with merchants? youve got to understand i know this takes time and things dont happen at the snap of a finger... but how long is time?
People were asking us for more crafting equipment, so we placed more. Players asked, we listened. We didn't do this randomly because we thought the ovens and furnaces would be cool there. We did it because it was requested. Now would you rather have me work on huts (because we don't have any, but we have crafting equipment already created) or have me work on a missing character model? On missing animations? On a new map? I prioritize a little differently, and to me progress is not having a large number of miscellaneous art additions - it's larger. It's having all the races finished, new areas to explore, more costume choices, effects for all spells, etc. Sometimes what you really want isn't what we consider the most important. And don't throw roleplay into this category. Because character models and areas and costumes do nothing but facilitate RP.
also you never commented on the changing of the gm banner and making gms anonymous... could you simply change the color from yellow to light green? then it wouldnt look so bad.
Recheck these messages (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29623.msg339621#msg339621).
and the gm intervention. your explenation of what would work and wouldnt work is perfect. i couldnt agree more so how about we implicate that.
"Implicate" is the wrong word, you probably mean implement. But you did not give me any answers about how we would handle the situations I first spoke of. Stop being in a rush for a moment and take some time to imagine this system through and through. You have player guards - GMs don't have time right now to patrol cities under this disguise, because the team isn't big enough yet - how do they handle those people who refuse to acknowledge them?
-
that activation.. the code is a code for color... change that code to the neon green color.
i will think about he policing thing a little more and get back to you but for a quick answer... the duel challenge... change it so the police squad dont have to challenge they can simply start a duel.
and i understand your prioritys.
Now would you rather have me work on huts (because we don't have any, but we have crafting equipment already created) or have me work on a missing character model? On missing animations? On a new map? I prioritize a little differently, and to me progress is not having a large number of miscellaneous art additions - it's larger. It's having all the races finished, new areas to explore, more costume choices, effects for all spells, etc. Sometimes what you really want isn't what we consider the most important. And don't throw roleplay into this category. Because character models and areas and costumes do nothing but facilitate RP.
new avatars, new charactors only promote rp a little... i would rather you work on a few huts or tents that would take very little time compared to what you are working on to promote rp. it would promote it about as much as a new charactor and a new avatar and a new map...... but take a lot less time. i dont mean just concentrate on one, i was simply asking to maybe toss the hard hard projects on the back burner for maybe a week and maybe throw in some quick rp additions i have suggested. just for a small amount of time.
as for policing i would gladly make an alt and help out in game.... i would gladly become a gm to help as would alot of people. i have the experience i have the understanding of rp. maybe ingame i could help. especially with the policing.. i can promise i wont abuse power but then again whats a promise on the internet right? well as soon as you see abuse or irresponsiblity that privilage could be revoked. same with a gm. im here to help in any way and i know alot of people are.. if you lack numbers ask and i can guarantee you can find people willing. take this example... example..
you take me, and make me in charge of this police force.. you also give me commands such as a gm would have.. maybe extra strength whatever i could be the chief. i enforce rules that are handed to me with a select group of people. and as for me or anyone who would be qualified would have friends they know would love to make an alot and help out. we handle the rules. and keep order. if say someone breaks the rules we handle them. if someone refuses to follow the rules of rp of the world.. then the gm commands come into play as would they come into play whether it ws policing or not.
as i remember it is required to rp in this world. if someone is new and doesnt understand of course they would get coaching and warnings and talks about how it works before a simple sword banishes them.
-
I'm going to have to disagree with how you prioritize art development, and we'll have to agree to let it go right now - I'm not changing what the art team is working on. There are also art assets I need to work on that have been on the backburner for much longer than a week. But everything I create, it's meant to help players roleplay and enjoy the game. That also stands true for every other developer.
If you have an interest in applying to be a GM, talk to Kerol. I don't manage the GM team and they have a much better application process now than they did several months ago. Basically you would get farther with this topic discussing it with him rather than me.
But, you're not going to see GM commands in the hands of players. No one will be able to kick or ban or teleport anyone else if they have not met Talad's personal approval. Not all GMs have those commands, even. They are divided by level and earn commands as they earn trust. If GM commands are involved, every member on this guard team will need approval and constant monitoring, so it'll basically be another branch of the GM team. They will need rules on what commands they may use, and in what scenarios. Are you going to kick a player if he steals something and refuses to RP with the guards? Are you going to ban a player who does it repeatedly? How are you going to reward players who do a good job, and what system of rewards will you employ?
I am thinking of something much simpler, that is entirely player run - a group of dedicated players in a guild called "Hydlaa Guards" or something similar, who RP their patrols and follow the rules as dictated by the settings. Nothing more. And this can already be done, and has been done in the past. People stopped because they found themselves lacking in time and later lacking in enthusiasm to continue. If you can get a really dedicated group of players to try this again, maybe it will work. But here's the thing - they won't be able to deal with OOC interruptions and OOC issues. They'll roleplay only with people who want to roleplay, and they won't be able to do anything more.
You guys as a community can already attempt this. Why isn't it happening?
-
as i remember it is required to rp in this world. if someone is new and doesnt understand of course they would get coaching and warnings and talks about how it works before a simple sword banishes them.
it is not required. it is strongly recommended, however.
-
it cant be done by player base and heres why.
you cannot stop a player from doing something if he can defeat you in a duel right? because there is no ability to group attack then it comes to one on one. and now the pvp system is luck of the face so...... it will have to be one on one which is never the case of guarding. that is the main reason all other guard guild have failed. not inactivity not willingness. but the simple fact they cannot "guard" they must rely on luck.. especially now. if it was made so you could have group fights and an ability to take away a challenge then it would work. but untill then you have to use powers.
you dont kick because a player stole something, you kick because a player refuses to rp, you dont ban because a player keeps stealing you ban because a player continues to not rp and treats the game likes it world of warcraft. as i said before the policing guild should be able to duel without challenge to enforce rules.
-
No Coneitic, we don't kick or ban if a player refuses to RP. This is a point you have to constantly keep in mind.
Wouldn't it be much simpler to request group combat so players can do this instead of handpicked GMs?
-
correct me if I am wrong..however I do belive I have been told in the past that you can get muted, frozen and yes I have even heard banned for talking to much ooc in main chat..
also was't there a guild called Yliakum law enforcement or something...
and reading through most of this the main thing I agree on is, yes there needs to be more GM's online its frusterating when there are none on for hours and hours at a time, and its only been recetnly by haning on out irc and such that I have come to learn most of the GM's and get help that way but not every one (esp) the noobs use IRC and if you ask me that is annoying to have to go outside of the game for help all the time.
-
ya this "not having to rp" must be a new rule.
no offense but is this games goal to turn out like wow?
and that is a serious question.. as serious as i can get and if its not is there any points that can be made to prove otherwise?
-
Aerianna Kzin:
You can get muted if you don't stop interrupting roleplay after GM warnings. For example if a group of characters are busily discussing some matter of Yliakum importance, and two other players waltz right in and start talking about a football game. They are interrupting, and they will be told to move their conversation to another area or another chat level (group, tells, etc.). But you're not going to be kicked or banned if you simply don't RP. If you don't want to be involved in an RP, no one can force you. That's the point I want to highlight. And no Coneitic, this is not a new rule. This has always been the case.
Concerning GMs and IRC: sometimes they may be at a place with a net connection but not where they can run a client. At school, at work, when they have a free moment to check on GM news or their teammates, etc. Whenever they have time to, they are logged into the game. Otherwise it's just a matter of low GM numbers at the moment. Kerol is working hard on recruiting though :]
-
ahem.. the wow quest?
wow = world of warcraft
and tells are fine but say some people are in another area of yliakum talking abou the new die hard movie... movie rocked... and someone walks by and hears them doesnt this disrupt rp?
-
If they are just walking by, it doesn't seem like a disruption of anything. A GM might send them a tell reminding the players that it'd be better if OOC conversations were not carried out in public, but they're not going to be kicked out of the game unless they are blatantly disrupting people trying to roleplay.
It's called tolerance, and a willingness to help people learn with time. Not with a scary GM.
-
once again is this games goal to be like WoW.... world of warcraft.. and if not can you point out reasons that its not... because as i see it that seems to be the main goal.
and wont you kick someone if repeaditly they wont talk in rp and constantly talk in ooc?
-
I'm going to ignore your attempt to draw parallels between PS and WoW, because it's a waste of my time. I don't like silly questions, especially when the person who is asking them knows the questions are exactly that. Maybe another time I'll bite.
GMs will kick someone if they are interrupting RP after several warnings. But that's what GMs are for, not RP guards who are supposed to draw people into roleplay - not moderate the game.
-
It was a serious question. im extremely intrested in the answer. as of right now i see no difference but the rp....
and that was what i was suggesting with the guards, you dont use the commands to enforce the rules you use the commands when people refuse to rp.
-
And that's what you don't seem to understand - people can refuse to RP all they want. We do not enforce roleplay in PlaneShift, we encourage. Walk away from your computer screen and say this to yourself for several minutes. Encourage not enforce, encourage not enforce, encourage not enforce... :]
-
and then explain how this game differs from wow then.
you dont enforce rp? so then once this game gets real popular if it does people wont want to rp just do quest and then slowly the evolution to another wow rip off. right?
-
You seem to have a really low opinion of quests, Coneitic. Can you explain why this is? Quests explain the world, the people who inhabit it, the rules, the events, the history. Things that every good roleplayer needs to know. What is your problem with them exactly?
-
because what attracted me to the game was the rp. every other game has countless quest and missions. a constant grind. i play dark age of camelot.. it has quest which i hate but the reward is great weapons for awsome pvp.. the best pvp system out there, if you guys can contact them i would recommend it for pvp.. but thast besides the point. the mmo games are all full of everlasting quest and grinding. how many are based around rp. thats what this game promised when i found it.. that the final game would be a great game full of roleplaying and quest. thats why im fighting for more rp. not hating on quest. but like i said before
is this games goal to end up like another wow game?
-
Have you even DONE any quests?
-
I am going to make comments your list Coneitic, but first I am going to advise you to tone down your remarks. I am on both the player’s side, and the Devs side (though I don’t see them as two separate sides), and as such I feel insulted when either side is downplayed or belittled. I am finding some of your remarks to very demanding and insulting to the hard working Devs.
On to the list.
1. Open Housing. Hollowed out buildings… Yes, it would be nice to be able to enter and have a look-see around some of the other buildings in Hydlaa, but the last thing I would want is to have them just ‘hollowed out’. That gives a feel of ‘no use’ to me. What I would prefer is an eventual system similar to what I said about being able to /barkeep in the tavern. Players would be able /job in buildings that were set up for a particular use. In buildings that were actually empty, players could rent or buy equipment, and actually put up ‘sets’ in the buildings. For now, gradually open up one building at a time with specific purpose, put an NPC in there to add to the feel of that purpose (as I am sure is in the plans), but always leave a spot in it that is dedicated to something only a player can do.
2. Militia. A militia can not be made until a specific system of Law is created. Once that was created and enforceable, then the next step would be NPC guards that would arrest and toss an offender out of town (to start with). Only then would I put into effect a system of player guard characters. I would also not just say “you are a guard now” and give a player a new guard character. No, that should be earned through specific guard training in a quest-like format, and the character would have to join an NPC guild where all of their actions could be reviewed by a higher player member of that guild. GMs would also have access to the list.
3-4 GM Intervention. Yes and no. I believe GMs should be able to operate as in character characters. They should have more freedom to be able to be guards that will come running if someone shouts for help, or any number of other character types that would be useful for problem solving in an IC way. Right now, GM ‘characters’ are only brought out for events (I could be wrong on that, being that my time ingame is very limited right now). I would like Talad let them exist as ‘normal’ characters, and just stroll around RPing and making friends and foes IC. The main things GMs need right now are better tools to do their jobs. There are few of them, and they can not be everywhere. With a special GM client (in the future), they could at least keep an eye on more than one place at a time, and influence events with a few clicks of a mouse instead of a list of /commands. I do not think a GM should just descend on a disruptive OOC character in an IC character to fix things. The offender should just be booted outside the walls to cool off...or maybe somewhere where it is required to learn basic etiquette before rentering the 'normal' game.
5. The Chat box. Karyuu is right, and you can filter out many of those things. What I would actually like is to be able to edit all tabs in that way, and give them your own names.
6. RP counsel. I will formulate an opinion on this subject later to judge its need.
7. PP for Rp No. Kill PP entirely. Kill it. Kill it!! KEEL EET!!one11!!one LOOT EET!
PP is one thing that does not now, and never will belong in RP, and I do not think it belongs in the game now. Luckly, that is being looked into. and that is all we can ask for right now.
8. Kada-El's Tavern. I am satisfied with the compromise. One thing I will suggest to the Settings team is to consider a quest that allows you to get lower cost drinks to sell in the Tavern, so as to start it on the path of a true and viable job for players.
9. Marriage. I hate seeing that marriage icon. I am going to delete it from my own client as soon as I find the time. Until the actual cultures and traditions of PS marriage are created, written down and readable in the game or in the player guide, and known by the players, I do not think players should have access to a simple marriage command. In fact, once the traditions are created, I would form marriage into a quest to learn about marriage culture in the game, gain the blessings of whatever would give the blessings, obtain the correct documents from the government, obtain the binding objects (rings, I guess it would be), an -then- be able to be married. Actually, I would do the exact same type of thing for making guilds, and get rid of the “paying to the wind” guild system in place now.
10. Actions- sneezing. Actually, I solved this myself in my own client by switching the greet and idle/sneeze animations. Now, every once in a while Aeshion will reach up and scratch her nose, and if I /greet, she gives a grand bow from the waist. Not perfect, I know, but much less distracting.
Also please dont respond with
"we have been working on it, it takes time"
That was rude. They have every right to say "we have been working on it, it takes time" or “We have been considering doing that, but are not working on it.” or “We want to do that another way, but thank you for your ideas.” The only other choice is to say “…”.
Code is hard. New systems (human or code) are hard. New ideas need a great deal of planning, and even more time. Be nice, and accept that. They are working on it.
-
Coneitic, Planeshift is in it's early stages. Only the basic, basic stuff has been laid down.
You do realize what you are doing is comparing a toy horse to a house because they are both made out of wood, yes?
And no, PlaneShift wishes to be different in many respects from the other MMORPGs, something that has been mentioned again... and again... and again.
-
im pretty much done ranting. i spoke with xillix and got a bit angry as im sure i made him angry. those were my ideas and following the list im sure i made rude comments and i apologize.
i understand i was out of line with the "dont say it takes time" its just after so long.. and then looking back before i was even playing seeing the same ideas and suggestions be told that kind of line it makes me think its a cliche line to keep people from carrying on.
UTM i like your ideas good job.
no i have not done a quest since the ring of familiar quest when i first played. i was under the assumption i could put the groffle in the tavern with a description.. say holding a menu.
my main goal for this was to get the devs attention at what i see in the game.. and what i have been told by others who have played for a long time. i hope i succeded in that at least whether i was out of line or not.
so heres my new course of action. since i cant be a gm because i dont do quest, and you cant have a gm who is solely there to help with rp and monitor inapproprate actions and chat.
my new goal is to kill off coneitic. he has way to much of a history with in game actions and forum actions and that could very well effect the game. i will somehow stage a death maybe in this current rp im doing. he is revolting at the gods for their inactivity.. how ironic right? maybe he can be taught a lesson so that the people there can see. UTM since i killed off one of your charactors in the great noob mistake maybe you can help me with a nice stylish death.
i will create an alt. a peaceful one.. for a change... and spend my time to encourage and try to push people into rping. maybe a nice minstral or something like that. use my time to do my part to help the rp community. and i encourage all of you who have stopped playing to join with me and see if we can put a spark back into this world.
thanks for all the feedback and sorry for being rude and maybe at times irresponsible with my comments. :surrender:
-
One thing I will suggest to the Settings team is to consider a quest that allows you to get lower cost drinks to sell in the Tavern, so as to start it on the path of a true and viable job for players.
Quests that help you get discounts have been discussed by settings and we're looking into 'em...but it's never easy, is it? :innocent:
Coneitic, if you've never done quests, please don't comment on them.
-
this will be my last response to this thread... the previous one was planned on being the last but i wanted to add this.
1. that was not a quote from me it was from UTM
2. I have never knocked a quest, never really commented on them. my arguement wasnt about quest it was about the rp. i said it before and i'll say it for the last time.
i think the development team is doing an excellent job on the quest and grind portion of the game. its the rp development thats lacking.
but we've been through this many times already and i already made my exit speech so im done. thank you for everyones time.
:beta: ???????
-
Here is an odd thought (probably divorced from reality): make "City Guard" one of the preset classes distinct from the others in that it comes with specific stats, advances in a different manner no pps, no skill training and give it a non-lethal combat attack ability that bypasses the /challenge system. Thus players could choose to have one, not more, of their characters on an account be a city guard. Then when some players decide to start trouble in the plaza, say, one or more other players could log in with their guards and react. Obviously the idea needs more polish and the possibility of guard on guard action must be considered but there it is in a nutshell.
The result of the nonlethal combat would be to beat down stamina to zero at which point the luckless miscreant having failed to escape is knocked unconscious for an arbitrary period of time. Make it so that the guards cannot use their abilities outside of their spawn town so the wrongdoers can always escape to the wilderness if they are lucky.
Probably not something possible but something to think about anyway.
-
i will create an alt. a peaceful one.. for a change... and spend my time to encourage and try to push people into rping. maybe a nice minstral or something like that. use my time to do my part to help the rp community. and i encourage all of you who have stopped playing to join with me and see if we can put a spark back into this world.
Great and impressive move, Coneitic!
-
Another thing that could be cool is a private rp rating, that gives you a certain amount of exp. per ingame hour, and is set by the GMs when they see you rping well, or decently, and can fluctuate between being high and low (depending on quality of rp--you get less for mindlessly grinding, and more if you're rping beyond a certain level, at the GM's digression within a set group of guidelines).
You have to realize just how much grief the GM team will get if people see them judging roleplay and trying to figure out who is doing a good job. There will be cries of abuse, favoritism, and how no GM is ever on during some person's timezone so they never get the benefit of this system. It's going to be pure madness.
On enforcing roleplay, I'm strongly against this, as are many other developers. We encourage, not enforce here. Enforcing may mean driving away people with potential who are not ready or willing to roleplay just yet. Many people with whom you have enjoyed great roleplays with did not start out as they are now, and they may not be here at all if they were greeted in the beginning by a GM waving a banstick.
The thing is: in the beginning, sure, there would be complaints. Favoritism, abuse, no GMs online, etc. Pure madness, perhaps, in the beginning. People will be mad that they aren't getting what they feel they deserve. Etc. People will leave, it wouldn't be a pretty sight.
However, in the place I brought this idea from (yes, my ideas aren't original. Oh noes. Our GMs are actually DMs), the general consensus (it had been in place for years by this point) was "if no DMs are online when you are, ever, suck it up", along with "abuse will be looked into, but not openly discussed"--the same for favoritism. Frankly, I feel sorry for the people on at 5:00 EST and no other times, because the chances of a DM seeing their rp is low.
I have a rather bleak outlook on rp in Planeshift if things continue as they are:
If you merely say "we encourage roleplay", you won't be doing anything more then saying "oh, roleplay is okay, if you want to do it, but hey, if you godmod/metagame ("my guildmate is now in trouble, a city away, I must be off"), that's fine too". Godmodding and metagaming are a lot easier then rping, and if allowed, many will do those (driving good rp'ers away from the game). Enforcing exceptionally strictly is bad (the ban stick should be used after repeated warnings over a long timespan, not before)--however, without enforcement, there will be about as much good rp as there is in WoW rp servers (from what I hear of them), except less so, because there isn't an rp planeshift server and a pvp planeshift server--all players of Planeshift will come to the same world. I didn't start out as a great rp'er either (I had come from playing Grindscape, it was to be expected. Either way, when I came, I had little knowledge of it, although I read the rules and tried it. I slowly got better. Those who cannot or will not rp, in my opinion, are detrimental to roleplay, and therefore, in the encouragement of roleplay, enforcement is necessary.), but from my time spent in Arelith (Neverwinter nights persistent world, they enforce rp with a rating, make it hard to grind, and in extreme cases they use the ban stick, however, the fact that it's harder to grind to get exp, and nearly impossible to grind to get money (daily crafting quota) drives away those who would rather grind then roleplay--enforcement of obvious metagaming/godmodding (using OOC information ICly) abuses, and such with detriments to the character (stat lowering), and in excessive amounts, the ban stick, keeps those who would do such things away or from doing them). I realized that while I was a relatively good rp'er here (from personal observataion; those who knew Garon's circumstances perhaps could speak better or worse of his RP, if not particularly well known--Garon didn't want to be well known, though, so it was IC to stick to the shadows, make few friends outside a select group), there I was average, at best, because the average was much higher then it is here, and still is.
In closing, the quality of rp is going to go downhill as the game gains more features, unless it's enforced, or given heavy shoves towards rp. This is because, as the game gains features, it becomes more likable for people who -enjoy- grinding and don't care at all for rp--and then less likable for those who enjoy rp, because it's disruptive to see someone chatting about game mechanics or the like.
Edit: In what way will rp be required to do things in the final (aside from NPC interaction, but that's always roleplayed to some degree, even in Runescape)? If not through heavy encouragement/making it seem better to the player xp wise, then what? This seems much easier said then done at this point.
----
Also, a good policy as far as complaints about abuse/favoritism/not on at the right time in relation to the RP rating (or GM actions in general--it seems like a good policy to keep GM abuse reports private, if only because if the GM -is- abusive, imagine what they would do to someone who pointed it out on the forums? :P) could be that reports will be checked out, but absolutely will not be discussed openly. Also, if there are 10 or so GMs who are known to be trustworthy (basically, a small, core group--from what I've seen, there is, although you never know), there would be a system of checks and balances in place that would prevent rampant abuse. Also, forcing them to give a reason (this would help the players, as well--for instance "very nice dialogue about the nature of government", or "how did you know your friend on the other side of the map was in trouble?"), and then checking that with the logs if necessary to see if they matched, would work as far as enforcement checkings.
Here is an odd thought (probably divorced from reality): make "City Guard" one of the preset classes distinct from the others in that it comes with specific stats, advances in a different manner no pps, no skill training and give it a non-lethal combat attack ability that bypasses the /challenge system. Thus players could choose to have one, not more, of their characters on an account be a city guard. Then when some players decide to start trouble in the plaza, say, one or more other players could log in with their guards and react. Obviously the idea needs more polish and the possibility of guard on guard action must be considered but there it is in a nutshell.
The result of the nonlethal combat would be to beat down stamina to zero at which point the luckless miscreant having failed to escape is knocked unconscious for an arbitrary period of time. Make it so that the guards cannot use their abilities outside of their spawn town so the wrongdoers can always escape to the wilderness if they are lucky.
Probably not something possible but something to think about anyway.
An interesting idea, although preventing abuse of it by players would be hard. Perhaps something you have to apply for the ability to do, or the like. City guards don't make for bad rp.
-
Don't treat this as a game just yet. Once most features are in, all skills, job systems, maybe 80% of all maps, you'll have no choice but to RP because the system itself will make you do it. Right now our features are very limited, so it does seem like there's nothing to do but grind or stand around talking. But you're missing an important point: we're far from done. We are so far from done, that there is no way you can make the predictions you're making and consider them even remotely accurate.
In the future, we are not going to rely on GMs to enforce roleplay. Players will go through newbie areas and tutorials, and be introduced to a system that gives their character many IC choices/actions. But I think it's a little silly right now to expect everyone to walk into a game that is only at version 0.3 and do nothing but roleplay 100% of the time as soon as they are there. The best of roleplayers get bored here and take breaks, and we know this. That's why we go on working.
-
I think everybody is just jealous that they didn't get to participate in the great crystal hunts :P
-
Thank you for the nod, Garon. In response to your objection I think it could be self regulating as there is the possibility for good guards and heinous guards and as much possibility for bystanders to login and confront the bad apple guards as just the normal wrong-doers. That is why I said some consideration to guard on guard action would need to be made. GM's could have Guard Captain characters and they would not all need to be "honest" either. There would of course need to be guidelines set for the conduct of the dishonest ones that was strictl=y enforced.
-
and spend my time to encourage and try to push people into rping. maybe a nice minstral or something like that. use my time to do my part to help the rp community. and i encourage all of you who have stopped playing to join with me and see if we can put a spark back into this world.
Aah, So you never did that before? ... HNo worries, I'm sure you didn't do it to prove a point to the devs ;)
-
actually theres plenty of people who still wont rp with coneitic because i was outraged by the "i choose not to rp" comment that became so popular and constantly tried to push people into rping.. no so much my rp but in general even if you didnt like the rp that was going on, if it wasnt to far fetched.... like the demorian lords. we were against enki's. well a few of the knowledge seekers were like oh we dont like that rp. and would get mad if a demorain started insulting them as enki's and then turn it into an ooc thing. and this in my eyes... my opinion is totally wrong.. its like being a jew in ww2 and saying nahhh im good i dont want to go to the concentration camp.
thats a little extreme of a example but it gets my point accross. and i still stand by my beliefs.. and thats my opinion on rp choices. if they are extremely far fetched and really unbelievable then ya, its ok to say no, but when its something like that.. its just being selfish.
quote from Jaycc
"i dont play anymore.. i just hop on this for a chatroom"
funny huh?
-
The Dermorian Lords event was overall OOC and it had many problems with settings. At the end it was ended because of the complaints from players and comments from developers on its IC impossibilities. The people who refused to participate had all the right to.
-
there were three of us who started that. well 2 and then i joined in. and of course theres going to be complaints. we were a race who hated enki's. but it was all IC... ooc we always.. and i mean always explained it was an rp. infact the overall goal was to create a war between demo's and enki's. i think it was me, gharan and chaz against blayze and alliva.. been a while. and we had many complications. lol many disputes between us. i think each one of us quit the rp like 10 times before it was finally disbanded. but it was extremely hard when people simply didnt want to rp because it wasnt "nice". IC impossiblity? never knew hate and prejudice couldnt exist in ps.
-
I'm not going to go into details right now, but you did have problems with various settings elements. It's a mistake to think that this RP was completely within IC limitations. Not everything was wrong, but not everything was right either - and in roleplay, either you participate in all of it or you choose to walk away from it entirely. You can't say "I like the overall idea so I'm going to play with you, but when you get to this part I'm just going to ignore it."
People have a right to walk away from an RP if they don't think you are doing something that makes sense settings-wise.
-
im sorry whats your charactors name? like someone on here said dont comment on quest if you havent done any... right?
-
quote from a knowledge seeker Jaycc
I would just like to point out that Jaycc is no longer a Knowledge seeker and has not been for quit some time.
-
i'll modify sorry.. no offense
-
im sorry whats your charactors name? like someone on here said dont comment on quest if you havent done any... right?
I don't need to participate in an RP to hear about it in-game and on the forums and immediately see problems from a settings stand-point :) Nice try though.
-
does that work vice versa with development? :innocent:
-
No :) Because if you haven't done any quests, you don't know how the system has changed, what the NPCs involved are like, what progression they give you, etc. You're basically grouping every quest into a "They don't support RP" category, which would be like me taking every RP you have started and brushing it off by saying "It's just another Dermorian Lords."
-
I don't need to participate in an RP to hear about it in-game and on the forums and immediately see problems from a settings stand-point
does that work vice versa with development?
-
What problems do you see with the quest system in the forums aside the usual "NPCs won't understand me" that we are constantly working on? I'm having a hard time drawing the connection here. People, including me, saw some IC problems with the DL event and chose not to participate. You're getting cranky because you think the event was without such flaws and it's the fault of the people who didn't want to play with you.
-
so development is just quest?
thats what your implying.
-
I believe Coneitiic was making some quip about how little information we get about development that he didn't really expect a serious answer to.
-
so development is just quest?
thats what your implying.
I think you're not really making clear what you want to say. I wrote the last several posts because you said some people didn't want to participate in the DL event and they should have. I wrote that they had a right to refuse due to problems with the way this event tried to make itself settings-compliant. I still don't know what "don't comment on a quest if you haven't done any" is supposed to mean to me, because the specific settings problems were apparent to me. You, on the other hand, were grouping all quests together with "They don't help RP" and thus Jeraphon told you that you should do some and really find out what they are about before you brush them off.
-
i ment this. you said you dont have to rp... to know hwats going on.
i said is this vice versa with development. as if you dont have to develop to know whats going on.
it was simple i dont understand why i had to explain it like this... but now i did.. if its still hard to understand i can try to put it in paragraph form.
-
I said I don't have to participate in that event to see the problems. But you can't make decent complaints about development problems if you don't actually use the features yourself and give us specifics, instead of saying "Quests don't help RP" and making similar statements. I am so done explaining this to you now.
-
i stated before npc quest and emotes do very little to help rp. and have stated many times the quest and grind part of the game has gone over smoothly. and you still dance around that question.
-
No, she's saying that perhaps quests can be made better but you saying "Make quest better" isn't going to do anything but annoy the Devs.
Give examples or decent advise. Hell, if you don't like it, apply to settings and try to make a difference as opposed to doing nothing more than complaining.
-
Coneitic: You seem to miss the connection between quests and roleplay, and this is a very big problem. I'm hoping someone else can come in now and explain just how much they are related and how many benefits you as a roleplayer can get from doing NPC quests - not item/PP benefits, either. I've spent a little too much time in this thread as is, so perhaps people like Waylander and Draklar can do a better job now.
-
I read the story of the settings by interacting with the NPCs. The quests dialogs with the NPCs have an awful lot of material about the world, relationships between the various characters, hints about areas and concepts within the game that are not yet included, et cetera. However under-developed the quest system might be at this time, I have often found it enjoyable to simply glean what I could about the settings from speaking with the various NPCs. I'll shut up now...
-
One important distinction between what C is saying and what K is saying is that character role play can be overheard by bystanders and an impression can be made first hand but the npc quests must be done personally to get an feel for them. This is because, in the past, at least, NPC quest chat has been private and could not be overheard. Now you can get your information about the quests second-hand from someone who has done them but that is not quite the same.
-
You can get information from the NPCs through quests and questions. That, you can use to add to your understanding of the world and culture of PS, and therefore enhance your roleplaying. However, it is difficult to impossible to use the quests directly in RPs with other players. The ones I have seen have followed a single player game style quest too much to be used with other players who have done the same quest. You also can not talk about them with players who have not done the quest, as you would be giving away the story that the quest unfolds.
I am sure Draklar and Waylander will agree that you can not use a quest in open RP where all players finish with the same 'rare' item, or help someone get that one last thing they needed.
I do have hopes that the quests can be rewritten to work as both a quest, and something you can act on with other people. Then I can do them.
I am sure the Settings folks are working on it, though. All I can say is wait.
-
Well I've just read through all 9 pages of this. At different points I'd think something that I'd want to post as a comment, and then alternately decide to just walk away from the thread. Turns out I couldn't just walk away.
Con ... I have a couple questions for you, because frankly the opinion I have gleaned from reading your posts may or may not be correct. So I'm curious ... (and yes, I'm going to make a list because I despise monster run-on paragraphs; it makes a bit mental) :p
1) Have you ever done any coding or programming?
2) Have you ever done any computer generated graphics work?
3) Have you ever played the traditional table top RPG?
Before I go any further with my thought process, I'd like to know.
-
I am sure Draklar and Waylander will agree that you can not use a quest in open RP where all players finish with the same 'rare' item, or help someone get that one last thing they needed.
I do concede that a lot of quests are single-player oriented and can't exactly be discussed in RPs because each player will manage to "accomplish something big." For us to make it that they can all be discussed would make most quests trivial matters or things like "oh well that's not it, thanks anyway" - not exactly satisfying.
However, I do think quests say a lot about the character and personality of each NPC. Without naming names I can say that sometimes doing a quest can reveal that an NPC has a hidden dark (or light?) side, has a secret, is a little deeper than you think, is in fact quite eccentric, or something else. It is in these respects that they can be used for RP purposes without revealing the exact nature of "what I did for them."
But thanks for getting some clearer explanations out there (karyyu, eldoth, bilbous, and yes you too utm)
Unlikely: rewriting quests to facilitate talking about them in RP situations.
Likelier: making future quests friendlier from an RP perspective.
-
I disagree that quests that can be RPed beween players after the fact (or during) would have to be over trivial matters, unwinnable situations, and can, in fact, accomplish something big. It is just a bit trickier to write them. Though, the quest system is still too basic to create a truly great stand alone quest that can be used, or even begs to be used in player to player RP.
-
hrm ... I guess Con isn't coming back to this thread after all. Although I am still very curious to find out the answers to my questions.
IMHO you can't really have one without the other. Quests and RP go hand in hand. Sure, in an on-line format you get more quest based players and less RP. It's the nature of the beast. Even still ... they do go hand-in-hand.
-
IMHO you can't really have one without the other. Quests and RP go hand in hand. Sure, in an on-line format you get more quest based players and less RP. It's the nature of the beast. Even still ... they do go hand-in-hand.
This could be (at least partly) solved by group quests. Instead of players questing always alone, maybe some quests could be done by groups of players, sharing the rewards in the end. This would favor both the general socialization dynamics and the RP dynamics in relation to quests.
And it's totally in line with medieval fantasy literature...
-
ya works out well... wow does that. infact thats the whole point of wow.