PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marqsaynt on August 31, 2007, 03:23:17 am
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About a year ago the topic of drinks was brought up on the forums but as I recall there wasn’t exactly an official response given settings wise. With drinks like “dermorian longbeard” and “twisted emerald” now part of the world of Yliakum I was wondering what kind of drinks are alright to RP and what types are out of bounds.
For a very long time Marqsaynt has RPed drinking whiskey and I have seen many others RP drinking rum, ulber milk, tea, and many, many other even more creative drinks. :) What, if any of these are valid in the current PS world? Thanks and hopefully we can put this matter to rest, even if only for the time being. :P
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Whiskey is a Scott/Irish drink, Bourbon is an American Whiskey from corn mash, Vodka is a Russian drink, and Champagne is a French bubbly wine from the region of the same name. Using such names also brings in the Real world region from where it is produced, thus breaking the OOC barrier.
Now as for rum, it is synonymous with the Caribbean and that comes from sugarcane. First so you got to ask the settings team if sugar cane is found in this hole and then you got to ask if the aura of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" doesn't affect the settings. Same for Grog as it is watered fown Rum.
Mainly Wine comes from fermented grapes but also other fruits(ie apple, elderberry, etc) and likewise from starch materials like Sake. So I would think the use of the word Wine would be OK but not to actually name a RL wine like sake or Merlo, Chianti, etc. For such destinctions, I would suggest making up the name like you would for the other alcoholic drinks.
Food for thought, whiskey and vodka as essentially the same at birth but differ in maturation, where as whiskey is aged in oak barrels, Vodka goes straight to the bottle and usually drunk right away. SO, the question lies, are there oak trees around or are all wheat grain drinks like Vodka.
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My thoughts: We have a crystal for a sun... :P. How would any plant such as sugarcane, oak, etc grow there? I suppose our plants have adapted, but how could anything else? as far as names go, water is the only thing that I can really see happening, but since beer is a main item in game (or at least the mug) than I suppose things like tea should work as well.
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Tea seems to refer to anything you steep as herbal teas often have no connection to the tea plant.
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Hoki tends to drink aged Demorian brandy
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brandy made of aged dermorian? ;D
Yuk
Just like there is orange juice, its made of oranges ;>
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Yay ... so dwarfian Ale is made of .... Urrks .... Dwarfs ?
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Whiskey is a Scott/Irish drink, Bourbon is an American Whiskey from corn mash, Vodka is a Russian drink, and Champagne is a French bubbly wine from the region of the same name. Using such names also brings in the Real world region from where it is produced, thus breaking the OOC barrier.
And mead is a Polish drink, but particularly in this example it was said the reference isn't obvious enough and as such there's no reason to rule it out of the Yliakum world. I guess the same applies for other drinks.
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Whiskey is a Scott/Irish drink, Bourbon is an American Whiskey from corn mash, Vodka is a Russian drink, and Champagne is a French bubbly wine from the region of the same name. Using such names also brings in the Real world region from where it is produced, thus breaking the OOC barrier.
Now as for rum, it is synonymous with the Caribbean and that comes from sugarcane. First so you got to ask the settings team if sugar cane is found in this hole and then you got to ask if the aura of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" doesn't affect the settings. Same for Grog as it is watered fown Rum.
A bit extreme to call those names ooc as they are pretty generic these days, may as well say Claymores shouldn't be IG as they are a Scottish weapon or Falchions with their oriental origins
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A bit extreme to call those names ooc as they are pretty generic these days, may as well say Claymores shouldn't be IG as they are a Scottish weapon or Falchions with their oriental origins
It all depends on where you want to draw the line and how creative the settings team can be.... SO yeah server me up a shot of good ol'Scottish whiskey with a budweiser.. er beer chasser. Or maybe a Bloody Mary.. NO, a screwdriver, with navel oranges and a Vodka of atleast 40% alcohol (80 proof)
Mead is fermented honey. Not just prevelant to poland, records show it was made will before 1300 BC by the greeks and other ancient civilizations. Where as whiskey is not mentioned till the 1400's(AD) same goes for Vodka and most other grain spirits. So, the settings team have to ask themselves, how old does a real world drink have to be before it looses its nationality ties.
You may not be a drinker or maybe an alcoholic, of which the first doesn't know anything about the subject ant the second doesn't care as long as it deos the job. What ever maybe the case, connoisseurs will know.
As for weapons, lets just start calling short swords, Gladius depite the Roman origins, and introduce Katanas and Sais or even modern Bowie or Ka-bar knives.
Btw, Falchions are not oriental weapons, they are European from the middle ages, though they may have been influenced by the chinese dao, basically a saber or single edge blade. And like the Claymores, they bring about the image of their origins and some what distracting to original creations from the setting department. But, those not versed in comon history will in no doubt feel nothing is amiss. I for one will just laugh to my self and add to the spin with other Real Life names... *Auction* Selling Ka-bar knife 250/250.
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Mead is fermented honey. Not just prevelant to poland, records show it was made will before 1300 BC by the greeks and other ancient civilizations.
I don't know where you get your records from, but the ancient civilizations were making wine with addition of honey for better taste. Fermented honey wasn't made until much later, in regions where making wine wasn't possible. Mead itself is a word with slavonic origin (meaning 'honey').
On another point it is strongly associated with medieval Norsemen, certainly not with ancient Greeks.
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[It all depends on where you want to draw the line and how creative the settings team can be.... SO yeah server me up a shot of good ol'Scottish whiskey with a budweiser.. er beer chasser. Or maybe a Bloody Mary.. NO, a screwdriver, with navel oranges and a Vodka of atleast 40% alcohol (80 proof)
Not quite sure how you got Budweiser, Bloody Mary and a Screwdriver from Generic terms.
separately
In 1276 Sir Robert Savage Lord of Bushmills and his troops tasted some illegal 'aqua vitae', there is also a mention in the Book of Leinster c. 1160.
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Well seeing as I was the one that re-sparked this whole topic, I guess it is only fair if I weigh in with my two tria also.
Personally I am of the mindset that as long at it is a generic term, there really should be no problem with including it in the PS universe. While saying something like champagne (a region of France) or cabernet sauvignon (a type of grape) may be up for debate, terms like whisky (or whiskey), rum, ale, tea, milk, etc. seem to be free enough from connotation to be used successfully in a PS setting. It seems logical that since, bread, fish, carrots, pie, and mushrooms are also in the PS universe (so apparently not deemed too ooc) that drinks would follow a similar policy regarding inclusion.
On a related note, made up mixed drinks also seem fine to me as long as they are adequately removed from any real world counter part. For example, if someone decides to invent a drink called a Blue Groffel, or a Hydlaa Fizz, or a Green Xacha of Doom, I personally don’t see how that would be out of the settings, considering other concoctions are already part of PS lore (Twisted Emerald and Dermorian Longbeard).
However, if one was to say limit all drinks in the PS realm to only those that are available for purchase at this time, this idea may not hold. Personally I do not see how the people of Yliakum could have such a limited drink selection though, considering that Twisted Emeralds and Dermorian Longbeards exist in PS and I doubt they are mixed by shaking red liquor and a mug of beer together… with a water pouch added just for kicks.
Anyway, it’s been nice hearing other people’s opinions keep the ideas flowing! Also, If any kind hearted dev, particularly one from the settings team, stumbles across this thread and cares to shed any light on the matter that would be much appreciated, even if the official stance is simply that there is no official stance. :P
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Dermorian Longbeard sounds to me like a pale (amber, red, whatever) ale of some sort. Twisted Emerald could be another, perhaps with a greenish tinge or possibly a liqueur of some sort.
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I've come up with a list on what "should" be OK to Role Play with, feel free to refine it. Water, Fruit juice, Tea, Hot cider, Tonic water, Wine, Ales (fictional and real), Apple juice, herbal drinks (including medicinal), blood (preferably of an NPC :P), milk (assuming local creatures provide it, salt water (from a combination of water and the mineral salt NaCl). Theres a variety of other drinks that people wouldn't normally want I'm sure, but here's what I could think of. Hope it helps.
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To get back on-topic...
Alcoholic drinks, though very important to some people, are probably quite low on the settings to do list. For now just roleplay with what you have (Angry Groffel, Twisted Emerald, Dermorian Longbeard, Red Liquor, Beer) and feel free to make up a few drinks in the mean time.
I'm sure many 'real life' drinks will appear in the game, and, knowing Xillix, I wouldn't be surprised to see them disappear and be replaced over time. But, you must keep in mind he, along with all the devs, is quite busy.
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maybe its just me, but playing morriowind tES i could rarely see refferenced to some specific real world items. Yet I din't have many problem to understand the world.
I'm just trying to say we don't need as many references to real world as we have now. Starting from apples and ending on carps as animals. People will accomodate fast to new reality. And it is going to be more interesting for sure.
The only drawback is for the setting team, planning more needed stuff. But I think they rather make world more original as i wrote above :) , we will see.
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Off-topic posts have been moved to their own thread here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29854.0). Feel free to continue the discussion :) (And edit that thread title to whatever you like more.)
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Of course, Niko. But, it's more a question of how much time the settings team has. :)
I'm sure Xillix will end up completely reshaping the world but, for now, we need placeholders :)
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My thoughts: We have a crystal for a sun... Tongue. How would any plant such as sugarcane, oak, etc grow there? I suppose our plants have adapted, but how could anything else? as far as names go, water is the only thing that I can really see happening, but since beer is a main item in game (or at least the mug) than I suppose things like tea should work as well.
Plants can survive on electrical light. It doesn't matter what kind of light it is, as long as it is constituted by photons. And light is usually constituted by photons.
This might be a valid approach: Vodka and Whiskey are untranslatable words. They obviously possess a relevant link to OOC realities that may be beyond the barrier of the acceptable. Whiskey and Vodka fall in the same category as Aguardente, Cachaça, etc. They're actually names for alcoholic beverages that are acquired by the process of distilling fermented stuff. I believe the right way to address them would be to call them "Spirits."
Wine, mead, beer are translatable words that don't point out at something specific from a nation/place.
In my way of seeing things "Ah, great spirit.." Is better than "Mighty fine whiskey." in PS.
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My thoughts: We have a crystal for a sun... Tongue. How would any plant such as sugarcane, oak, etc grow there? I suppose our plants have adapted, but how could anything else? as far as names go, water is the only thing that I can really see happening, but since beer is a main item in game (or at least the mug) than I suppose things like tea should work as well.
Plants can survive on electrical light. It doesn't matter what kind of light it is, as long as it is constituted by photons. And light is usually constituted by photons.
To be accurate all light is made up of photons, not to get too technical, or into the wave/particle duality of light, but all plants get their energy from the process of photosynthesis, which simply put, means that plants make the materials they need to grow and develop from light, it actually makes little difference what 'type' of light, electric, solar, crystal, the energy is derived from the photons, so any light will do, and plants will adapt to make use of the available sources.
If we have trees, grass, flowers, then logically there must be enough light for plants to flourish, if plants flourish then the whole ecosystem will naturally balance itself and various types of plant will adapt themselves to fit the available spaces, grasses will produce grains, trees will produce fruits, if the ecosystem is similar enough then any plant we know of is possible in PS, provided the nutrients and trace minerals are present in the correct quantities.
What does this mean for drinks? Well barley, hops, wheat, potatoes, grapes, apples and many other fruits and vegetables can be used in the making of ales, wines, and spirits. The names of these drinks however would be different from the ones we know of OOC, but their analogues would probably still be present.
However what the heck do Kran drink that has an equivalent effect on them as alcohol does on us carbon based types? Some mix of rare minerals or salts perhaps?
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At what point do you come to the conclusion that instead of inventing new names for everything it makes more sense to use the familiar ones. You can call vodka, whiskey etc. grain alcohol if you like but then you could call them berazzle fingdarp too.
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but then you could call them berazzle fingdarp too.
Can we use that?
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Sure Jeraphon, for anything you like. You might want to do a web search as I might have unconsciously stole it from somewhere.
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My thoughts: We have a crystal for a sun... Tongue. How would any plant such as sugarcane, oak, etc grow there? I suppose our plants have adapted, but how could anything else? as far as names go, water is the only thing that I can really see happening, but since beer is a main item in game (or at least the mug) than I suppose things like tea should work as well.
Plants can survive on electrical light. It doesn't matter what kind of light it is, as long as it is constituted by photons. And light is usually constituted by photons.
To be accurate all light is made up of photons, not to get too technical, or into the wave/particle duality of light, but all plants get their energy from the process of photosynthesis, which simply put, means that plants make the materials they need to grow and develop from light, it actually makes little difference what 'type' of light, electric, solar, crystal, the energy is derived from the photons, so any light will do, and plants will adapt to make use of the available sources.
If we have trees, grass, flowers, then logically there must be enough light for plants to flourish, if plants flourish then the whole ecosystem will naturally balance itself and various types of plant will adapt themselves to fit the available spaces, grasses will produce grains, trees will produce fruits, if the ecosystem is similar enough then any plant we know of is possible in PS, provided the nutrients and trace minerals are present in the correct quantities.
What does this mean for drinks? Well barley, hops, wheat, potatoes, grapes, apples and many other fruits and vegetables can be used in the making of ales, wines, and spirits. The names of these drinks however would be different from the ones we know of OOC, but their analogues would probably still be present.
However what the heck do Kran drink that has an equivalent effect on them as alcohol does on us carbon based types? Some mix of rare minerals or salts perhaps?
Didn't know that, thanx for the info :P.
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I'd say every drink but sake is fine. But my character usually sticks to drinking beer, cider (non-alcoholic, though), rum, and ale.
It would be funny to see a couple of Enkidukais dancing round drunk on Captain Morgans and Miller Lights.
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Is beer brewed with hops in PS?
It seems to me that with the limited space in the stalactite, food would be on a higher priority than fermented drinks, so the selection might be limited to those that would not take up large volumes of land to produce. Fruits can be grown in the hanging gardens, so wines (any fermented fruit drink) would likely be far more prominent and cheaper than those based on grain (which would be better used as food).