PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: RIP on September 14, 2007, 02:30:46 pm
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I think there should be some type of punishment for death. Perhaps something as severe as losing everything in your backpack or something, or at least a random slot or two from the packpack or from off their body (armor or weapons held) turns to dust or sledge. Sorry, but I think dying should be punished not encouraged. I see too many players committing suicide, abusing the /die command to avoid hiking across the maps.
The “Time to die” thing is perhaps the worst form of BAD role-playing out there! :thumbdown:
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http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29562.0
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That has got to be the worst idea i have heard yet.. and i read allot of the forum... here is why this is the single worst idea in history..... /UNSTICK doesn't work all the time... example... you are running towards oja and as you are running you get stuck on some glitches in the graphics.. you wait 10 sec try to unstick...WELL guess what it sends you right to another spot you cant run...o well i guess i will /DIE to unstick my self and try to run again... ok now i awaken in the DR to find out my 300/300 SS i paid 100k for are now gone... realistic, NO.. good idea, NO.. sorry to smash your idea but it is a horrible one.. how about instead there is a toll for the DR if you want a Penalty not a loss of some random item.. how about a quest item .. i am sure that will work out great.. i can see it now.. PETITIONS EVERYWHERE .. guess what people are going to abuse the system no matter what.. if you did this it would only hurt people that RP for real.. hackers to get back to their spawn point are not cutting through the DR that takes to much time.. i see most shortcuters falling through the graphics in order to skip the DR all together.. dont believe me, look at the exit to the laanx dungeon.. the ramp next to the exit .. if you are a enki and walk through the side of it you get teleported strait back to OJA .. true abusers dont even waste time with the DR so you would only be hurting People who either accidentaly fell , got stuck , or got smashed by some mob or PCkiller.. so i take it you have yet to pay over 100k for your swords that is the only reason you could think this is a good idea... with the current state of things coming up on 100k again wont be easy.. so to reiterate i think this would hurt good players more than bad ones
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http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29562.0
1) A search for “/die” finds 149 pages of posts <(that’s as far as I read), not posts, pages of posts.
2) This site has 309980 Posts in 25833 Topics (as of this post).
3) A new member can not be expected to read each and every post on this site or in this particular search, even if they wanted to, They would probably miss something.
Moderator,
Please feel free to merge this topic with any of the hundreds of other /die threads you deem appropriate.
Sorry for the inconvenience,
RIP
That has got to be the worst idea i have heard yet.. and i read allot of the forum... here is why this is the single worst idea in history..... /UNSTICK doesn't work all the time... example... you are running towards oja and as you are running you get stuck on some glitches in the graphics.. you wait 10 sec try to unstick...WELL guess what it sends you right to another spot you cant run...o well i guess i will /DIE to unstick my self and try to run again... ok now i awaken in the DR to find out my 300/300 SS i paid 100k for are now gone... realistic, NO.. good idea, NO.. sorry to smash your idea but it is a horrible one.. how about instead there is a toll for the DR if you want a Penalty not a loss of some random item.. how about a quest item .. i am sure that will work out great.. i can see it now.. PETITIONS EVERYWHERE .. guess what people are going to abuse the system no matter what.. if you did this it would only hurt people that RP for real.. hackers to get back to their spawn point are not cutting through the DR that takes to much time.. i see most shortcuters falling through the graphics in order to skip the DR all together.. dont believe me, look at the exit to the laanx dungeon.. the ramp next to the exit .. if you are a enki and walk through the side of it you get teleported strait back to OJA .. true abusers dont even waste time with the DR so you would only be hurting People who either accidentaly fell , got stuck , or got smashed by some mob or PCkiller.. so i take it you have yet to pay over 100k for your swords that is the only reason you could think this is a good idea... with the current state of things coming up on 100k again wont be easy.. so to reiterate i think this would hurt good players more than bad ones
Spoken like a true /die abusor...
I have a character that has yet been to the death realm (even with the /unstick glich), have you?
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i tend to only RP one character better RP like that.. and now i am not a DR abuser.. you will see me running around like all the other good little players... so i noticed you didn't answer the question about your swords.. yeah how about you leave a pile of 100k trias every time you goto the DR tell me how it feels.. do you even have 100k to loose
.. if your character has never been to the DR i can help. come meet me in the ARENA we can RP a little i will let you visit the DR no charge.. just remember to leave 100k on your way through.. you think it is such a great idea start doing it on your own .. LEAD BY EXAMPLE... i will be looking for you character in the arena for a little RP then i will be looking for your pile of 100k trias .. don't disappoint me
I think there should be some type of punishment for death. Perhaps something as severe as losing everything in your backpack or something, or at least a random slot or two from the packpack or from off their body (armor or weapons held) turns to dust or sledge. Sorry, but I think dying should be punished not encouraged. I see too many players committing suicide, abusing the /die command to avoid hiking across the maps.
The “Time to die” thing is perhaps the worst form of BAD role-playing out there!
Spoken as a true vagabond with nothing in his backpack and no money
ALSO ever think some guild do some RP events in the DR but i guess you would need to start RP for that
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Dueling practice in the Death Realm or races to see who's fastest is hardly what I'd call an RP event :P It's OOC fun and games, sometimes wrapped up in a very thin coat of RP to please the roleplayers.
Anyway, RIP ... this topic has been discussed to death already (pardon the poor pun). Eventually the Death Realm will be just as large, if not larger than the living world and have a constantly changing method of leaving it. I think nobody will consider using /die as a shorcut anymore then. ;)
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There should (and surely will be) some sort of punishment for getting sent to DR.
Besides DR getting much larger maybe a temporary drop of stats (STR,END,AGI), maybe even a permanent or long lasting one. Also maybe a faster drop in stamina while moving for the first couple of hours or maybe days. maybe even depending on how someone died (combat, falling, /die).
But then I have not enough knowledge of how DR and getting back to the living is reasoned in settings.
Removing /die right now is not an option as long as you can get stuck somewhere and /unstick does not help.
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Hey ZAn no one said anything about deathmatches or races.. but i do role playing in the DR not duels... so yes it is RP there is the big skull with the alter in it good for sacrifices and other cool RP things.. i spend about 10% of my time in DR as RP but to loose items because you went there is just bad is all i was saying...
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There is also the fact that there are a few quests that send you to the DR, and any punishment for dying would make these quests less desirable to complete.
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Losing items is not the way to go but RIP is right that going to the death realm should be dreaded more. Dying for the sake of solving a quest or roleplaying should be less desirable by any sane character :P
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But, here's the problem with that: At least one quest involving the Death Realm is given to you in the living world! So in order to do any more quests involving that character, you have to finish that quest! You'd be forced to take the penalty! (Perhaps the solution would be to make this quest have an awesome reward that's better than what the penalty takes away. Or even have the reward be to negate the penalty!)
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Fact is when the game is completed and DR is huge how many people are going to take that quest when they know the penalty? I bet a little less. Is that a bad thing? No. That will only make the reward a little rarer and not some common place item that people just have for fun. You as the character will have to decide whether dieing and suffering will be worth the reward. Maybe you'll find its not worth it at all or maybe you'll find it to be a great gift. It will all depend on the way you rp your character. Besides life isn't supposed to be fair all the time :P
As for the /die command its used a lot now but in the future as mentioned DR will be a world all its own and complicated to get out of. Right now /die is a shortcut but when that time comes it will most likely take a much longer time to get out of DR than to run to another city. The problem would be solved as soon as DR is expanded. Remember DR is the Death Realm. There are NPC's who live there so you can expect that one, in the future, would be able to actually stay there for a long time and still enjoy the game while trying to get out. Its a punishment but not meant as a punishment to the player, only the character.
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Like Duraza hinted at ... the underlying issue here is a very common one.
Thinking as your character <=> Thinking as a player
The first one will dislike dying for any reason, let alone having to walk less. In their view death still hurts like heck and there is no certainty of getting out of the Death Realm ever again, so it might well be permanent.
When we tend to think as a player we only see the way to get somewhere faster or get a nice reward, as players we know the way out of the death realm and we know there is no downside to it.
Eventually this last line of thought will be destroyed because even as players we'll have a heck of a time getting out of the Death Realm. Until then we can either chose to uphold roleplaying and keep our character in mind ... or ignore roleplaying and take advantage of the incomplete game mechanics. To me, how a character treats the death realm says a whole lot about how they roleplay.
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Well,
I must confess, in my Beginner-Days I used the DR-Express to shorten the running - but the more I learn in Game and the more I try to make my character realistic, the more I run ... Oja to BD - wow ... not fun at all but I run it (okay ... it helps if you have END maxed ... sure) but I DO RUN IT ...
So shouldn't we hope, that those who use the DR as a shortcut only do it until they learn that it's not the fair way ?
I think no penalty is needed ... those who seriously want to play planeshift will sooner or later stop using the DR-Express.
We are mature, are we ?
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Well,
I must confess, in my Beginner-Days I used the DR-Express to shorten the running - but the more I learn in Game and the more I try to make my character realistic, the more I run ... Oja to BD - wow ... not fun at all but I run it (okay ... it helps if you have END maxed ... sure) but I DO RUN IT ...
So shouldn't we hope, that those who use the DR as a shortcut only do it until they learn that it's not the fair way ?
I think no penalty is needed ... those who seriously want to play planeshift will sooner or later stop using the DR-Express.
We are mature, are we ?
There won't be a penalty from my guessing....I highly doubt it because in the future going to DR will be like going to a different world. As Zan and I mentioned before the only penalty will be to the character rply. To the player DR will be just another place in the game (possibly bigger than the living world itself) to explore, quest, and train.
I think just about everyone at a certain stage has used DR as a shortcut and most do stop. As long as your pretty new I don't have a problem with it. Eventually though when it comes to running there will be other forms of transportation like grofels and yublars. You won't have to worry about the long run because you'll have a pet to do it for you.
In short in the future transportation will be easier and there won't be a DR-express period. Still a DR but in no way will it be fast.
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If you penalize people for ending up in the death realm you are penalizing people for several reasons.
1. Wanting to train dark way.
2. Doing quests that involve doing thing in the death realm. Either quests that take you there or any quests you get in DR.
3. Get stuck and find /unstick just moves you to another stuck position. If there are no gm around or the gm tells you to /die because they won't move you there is not much choice.
I think it is a bit much penalizing people for those 3 things. Especially point 3. Very rude for hitting someone with a penalty after getting caught by a bug and /die is the only way out.
At the moment my prefered solution would be to have the DR big enough that it takes > 1/2 hour to get out. Just over 1/2 hour from the fortress to oja compared to 2 minutes in DR. When you are in a quest that involves 3 hours of running + time dealing with the npc it is very tempting to shorten the running by 28 minutes and jump off the waterfall.
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Quite honestly, my biggest complaint about it isn’t even the fact that it’s abused (it is and we all know it). How do you role-play a person killing themself in front of you? It has become so commonplace that it is just ignored. If you really feel the need to do the suicide/shortcut thing go find a secluded place where no other characters have to witness and ignore it. People killing themselves for no apparent reason in front of 12 other people at a mine would probably be cause for the mine to shut down for the day do to the excitement, it would not be ignored.
I think its kind of funny that the suicide rate in Yliakum is greater than its population.
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yay ...
and this is exactly what I always did ...
If I used DR-Express I always looked for a place to die in peace without anyone taking notice of it ...
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Doesnt anyone avoid DR just because they think its scary?? :sweatdrop:
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Killing oneself as a means of travel was a practice of some dark figures in the Riverworld.
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Cool! Somebody else actually read that book! Was wondering when that would pop up...
In Riverworld though, there were consequences, and actually those same consequences kinda make sense for Planeshift... There's always a chance a consumer or other critter could find your body before it was disposed of...
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Hmm, doesn't your body dematerialize or something like that when you die? Your body only needs disposing of when you die permanently through execution or old age. Right?
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*** 2007-10-02 by Kenny Graunke
- Implement first cut at...the curse of the death realm! Muahahaha.
Let's just say that you'd best not use the DR as a shortcut anymore.
That's gonna be interesting.
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I can only say that your character won't be mutilated, at least not permanently, and that you will not lose items, at least not all of them. ;D
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I hope the change did take into account the arguments given in this topic. (i.e., make the reward for the DR-involving quest better to make it worth doing).
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Will any changes be able to tell the difference between someone using dr as a shortcut and someone who has business in dr?
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People have business in DR? So people go round saying "sorry I have to go I have to commit suicide so I can deal with some buisness..."
You shouldn't really have "buisness" as such in the DR, unless you are trapped there.
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Death is Death.
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People have business in DR? So people go round saying "sorry I have to go I have to commit suicide so I can deal with some buisness..."
You shouldn't really have "buisness" as such in the DR, unless you are trapped there.
In that case any trainers should be moved out of DR, any quests that you get in DR should be removed and any quests that take you into DR to be completed should be changed.
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I can only say that your character won't be mutilated, at least not permanently, and that you will not lose items, at least not all of them.
A temporary degradation of stats/skills is perfectly fine and makes sense and is actually what I wish for. It is good to feel a bit groggy in such a case.
About items: I suspect it will be what you wore at the time of death. Now that can get a bit frustrating if it could happen to be a quest item (like helms, books in mind or glyphs) or crafted weapons, although losing items makes sense in the case of death. I hope that /unstick not working, no GM online and having to use /die will not make the frustration bigger.
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We will in time move some things around, but as with posters of the past, telling us what we "should" do well . . .
Dear community,
After begging for this for years please do not make this a source of contention.
Thanks,
Xillix.
P.S. The Trainers stay, that is a price you pay for the dark way, eh? As for unstick two answers, more gms, or engine team fixes the issue asap.
:love:
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You know... actually, having a penalty for training Dark Way does make some sort of RP sense (you get corrupted or something). Aren't most of the really powerful skills Dark Way after all?
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Currently one quest originates in the DR and one goes into there, both make rp sense to do as they do. Anyone who finds ones that do not make sense to do say may private message me. Do not cry that it is too hard, those are the breaks. Death sucks be happy.
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Finally!! How long I wished this. Characters will be hopefully now really afraid of death! \\o// :devil:
(Sadly... For some it might be still something like "omfg i lost teh skillz and m0nieyz!")
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(Sadly... For some it might be still something like "omfg i lost teh skillz and m0nieyz!")
To those I say, "you should have thought of that before you decided to do something reckless." :)
I think as with all things you'll get used to it. I'm predicting that at the same time people praise the new death system, people will all of a sudden decry the lack of transportation methods. We'll see. :)
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I think that you should die when you fall off the map. I used to jut do that to get back to hydlaa, bypassing even DR.
I also think that if you type /die BEFORE you have a failed /unstick, you should get a penalty. It would help at least a little bit.
For when going to death realm is required for some reason, and not just an aspect of being hit in the face with an ulber deadly claw... There could be on or a few places meant to take you to death realm, through some mechanism (maybe a painless death). This would allow people to still go to death realm without making it much of a shortcut to get there. It would probably work best if there were one place to do this, somewhere in between Oja and Hydlaa. Maybe also it takes some time to get into death realm this way?
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Some book said something about being able to get into the DR without dying. Perhaps it's time to think about implementing that...? (It sounds like it'd definitely take a while though... It probably won't happen until at least the next time the DR is expanded, so there can be a place to go in through.)
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Some book said something about being able to get into the DR without dying. Perhaps it's time to think about implementing that...? (It sounds like it'd definitely take a while though... It probably won't happen until at least the next time the DR is expanded, so there can be a place to go in through.)
I bet Death Realm is called Death Realm cause you have to 'die' to get there. ::|
Btw. Will be the penalty related to kill by NPC, in PvP or perhaps jumping down the eagle head?
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And if the die users come back, after leaving the DR, to the zone where he use the command ?
Not to the same place because if he is stuck in a wall he will be stuck again but in a define place for each zone.
The miner who do suicide in the mine in BR will come back to BD and not to Hydlaa.
This will slow the suicide rate I think.
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Yes, that would be nice. But there should still be a punishment for dieing in general. Like many said before me: Dieing isn't a piece of cake and your character should suffer from its troubles. However, I welcome this new feature and I'm pretty sure it is only the beginning.
By the way: *** 2007-10-04 by Kenny Graunke
- Changed death penalty to take effect when you exit the DR, rather than when
you enter it, so living friends are able to help. This also makes it no
longer apply to NPCs. Thanks, Xillix, Xordan, and Magodra!
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How exactly will living friends be able to help?
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It will all make sense when .20 is released ;)
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/me is scared of the unknown penalties
it wont be something too serious like losing levels permanently, right?
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Death is Death.
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it wont be something too serious like losing levels permanently, right?
In a levelless game?
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It will all make sense when .20 is released ;)
*Miaua pops from tense* X-/
(yep.. your fault) :P
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leveless? whoa...big change then...
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Making death has penalties sounds like a good thing, regardless of all the time I spend there. It will even make DW seem more mysterious and hard to master because of dieing fear which only makes things more intresting ;D
Some book said something about being able to get into the DR without dying. Perhaps it's time to think about implementing that...? (It sounds like it'd definitely take a while though... It probably won't happen until at least the next time the DR is expanded, so there can be a place to go in through.)
That makes me things of the books dr has about it being multiple planes and all that other stuff. Since those are IC books though I suppose we have to remember they could be lies. However I think it would be more intresting if someone instead found a portal leading into a a pit of darkness instead of back home :devil:
By the way: *** 2007-10-04 by Kenny Graunke
- Changed death penalty to take effect when you exit the DR, rather than when
you enter it, so living friends are able to help. This also makes it no
longer apply to NPCs. Thanks, Xillix, Xordan, and Magodra!
Now I need to find friends
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Resurrection spell coming?!
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leveless? whoa...big change then...
PS has always been levelless (you're not a Lvl 4 Ranger, Lvl 42 Paladin, whatever).
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we still have levels, even if they are not really mentioned IC
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we still have levels, even if they are not really mentioned IC
Um, whaaa...?? Explain please? (I realise that this is driting :offtopic:, but I'm really curious to know how I've missed the levels in PS over the last few years :-\)
Edit: Follow-up, are you possibly referring to the Ranking system for skills and stats?
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yes
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Answering yes/no to an "A or B" question...how funny :D
I guess she meant the skills and stats, which you ooc'ly can call "levels". IC i wouldn't refer to them as levels, but describe how good/bad I am with XYZ :)
Cebot
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Of course PS has levels; a small hint are the 1 billion threads about 'powerleveling' ;)
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A somewhat more definite hint is the experience bar and progression points. You fill up the experience bar to gain a level and get a progression point. At higher levels, it takes more experience to fill the bar. The fact that the level is never displayed anywhere as a number doesn't mean Planeshift is a levelless game. If you really want a number, use the total number of progression points your character has earned over his/her lifespan.
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as far as i am aware, it takes the same amount of experience to get 1 pp no matter how many pp's you have gotten.
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My Dwarf has done suicide many times, first time i was lost in DR for like 3 hours, then i thought 'why not follow someone', then i was out in like 3 minutes..
I think /die is good for those situations, when /unstick doesnt work, but not for when you are just too lazy to walk to hydlaa.
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Just so you know, The Curse hasn't been enabled yet. Use this time to prepare...
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Well, the Dakkru's curse is enabled now, to the detriment of the game. It *must* be removed as soon as possible imho.
To defend the case of /die being abused to create a shortcut between cities, I submit that the stats and levelling system, particularly for newb's makes this a necessity. Without a very high stamina, a player needs to keep stopping to rest all too often, and a long cross country run is simply not feasable.
For some of us, wasting real-life time is a showstopper issue. If I have to keep stopping on a long run to oja, well, obviously i'm going to take the shortest/quickest route, because my time is valuable to me.
In the case of the DR/Dakkru curse. the idea that my char has to be so severely crippled after exiting the DR is unacceptable. The reduced stats make my character unplayable. I'm just as likely to sit down, stay logged in, go afk, and do something useful with my 30 minutes. This does not increase role play at all and will in the end, drive players away from the game.
Get rid of this stupid curse. The sooner the better.
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I fully understand your point, but you have to see the reason why it got implemented in the first place. Before it was implemented people ran to bronze doors for a quest, had to go to oja or to hydlaa then and simply died for OOC reasons. The death realm was not used as what it is, a realm for the death, but as a shortcut only - I'm pretty sure that 95% of the people which have been in the DR before the death penalty got implemented were there for the shortcut, 4% were there for duelling and the rest were just poor souls which got slain by a mob, or made a wrong step.
But not only young characters suffer from the death penalty, even a char with all body stats maxed out does. My chars for example usually carry a lot of stuff around, so when they die for whatever reason they have to sit down too.
I think a redesign of the curse would be better than removing it, the curse has it's place and it should stay, but perhaps it could be changed a little.
One solution could be to half the stats as it currently is, but instead of forcing the chars to sit down all the time they could walk very slowly with that huge weight on their backs, will be unable to attack during the curse and unable to work (craft, mine, repair) and since the curse hits you like a hammer which reduces your mental stats too, you should not be able to cast any magic during that time.
Other suggestions? :)
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I agree that an overburdened char should be able to move, albeit very slowly, and possibly costing extra stamina.
It's not the players fault that the run to BD is so excessively long. We shouldn't be punished so severely for taking the short cut back. Maybe there should be a toll gate at the BD, allowing one to teleport back to hydlaa or oja for a fair but affordable fee?
I think hough, you're missing my point on the curse.. If I lose too many stats by dying, either accidentally, as part of a RP, or even on purpose, I'll just not be able to play the game.
When I get out of the DR, I will sit down somewhere, not necessarily because i'm overburdened, but because the low stats make my char useless for a time. In this case, there's the chance that I'll stick around and chat in my guild, but much more likely is that I will stay logged in, sit my char down, and in real life, go watch a tv program, make a cup of tea, do some studying - anything but gameplay.
All the curse is doing is detracting from the ability of chars to play the game, and if it is allowed to continue IN ANY FORM, it will cost the game players. Planeshift already takes too much RL time to play, the curse is just making matters worse.
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with a little bit of stamina training this will be a minor issue for your character.
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with a little bit of stamina training this will be a minor issue for your character.
I disagree, you're dismissing this too easily. Stamina is an issue for new players, training is a necessity, and is both too time consuming and too costly.
The curse in it's current form is a bad idea, which can't possibly have been though through thoroughly. All it serves is to create characters who sit around doing nothing for half an hour.
If the game is made unplayable, or made such that it takes an obscene amount of RL time to get anything done, then it has no future - new players will leave and do something more useful, only a small hardcore will remain.
If you absolutely must have a curse, then str/mana and stamina should definitely be left alone. Maybe a better solution would be for the curse to cause slow regeneration of stats, health/mana/stamina. Players could purchase potions to regenerate each stat more quickly, or they could slow up accordingly.
Curses aside, always appearing in the same place when exiting DR is the core of the problem imho. There should be more respawn locations, some out in the countryside, and players should reappear in a random location, not always in hydlaa or oja.
I believe a causing a curse of slow regen, along with having a random exit point from the DR would be appropriate.
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Wow... veja du... :)
This has so many similarities to the introduction system that it isn't funny... It MUST be removed, it is going to kill the game... etc.
I find it annoying, but I understand it's reason, and I think it could be tweaked. My biggest problem with it is that after the duration of the curse, I must then gain my HP back as though I had been attacked. This takes a long time. I think that if feasible, It might be better for the curse to gradually lift. Drop you to 40-50% of your stats, and gain back at a rate of 1% per 30 seconds. (If 40% starting point, this would put you back to full in 30 minutes).
I also agree that instead of just falling down from being overburdened there should be a middle area where you are slowed significantly. A dramatic drop in speed would be appropriate... "running" would be reduced to normal walking speed... and "walking" would be reduced by 50% or something.
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I welcomed the curse and still do. I agree that it is too hard for new players, but understand the (one) background of it.
People were digging at the mine and then you saw every few minutes /die ing there just to get his load faster to the furnace... this reached an extend where it was really annoying. Thus making something that turns the safe of time by using DR to the opposite as well as connecting it to the load of a char (miners died with full inventory) the way the curse worked was logical; though maybe only a first try.
The idea of appearing in a random place sounds like a great idea for me and maybe can replace the current curse? :)
Sen
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The idea of appearing in a random place sounds like a great idea for me and maybe can replace the current curse? :)
I like that idea. Here are some more... :P
- You could be blinded for a limited amount of time.
- Your movements would be messed up (one minute you go back, when you hit the forward key, then you go left if you hit the backward key in the next minute...).
- Your chars would randomly have to throw up, cough, sneeze or shout strange things on their own.
This would show to other players, that the person is suffering from the time spent in the death realm. Movements and behaviour would be strange to all observers.
What concerns the curse:
Maybe it should be possible to reduce the effect or the time of the curse, for example by casting the healing flash on the suffering person several times. This would create the job of a healer which mabybe also might be paid.
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What concerns the curse:
Maybe it should be possible to reduce the effect or the time of the curse, for example by casting the healing flash on the suffering person several times. This would create the job of a healer which mabybe also might be paid.
I like that one, Org. The healers would become important people outside the battle field too. No longer just fighting mages ::).
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Umm so like uhh the Death Guardian buys a whole whack of stuff, not everything of course but it is usually not too hard to say sell your armor and pay 20% premium to get it back when the debuff is gone. Do not carry so much if you plan on dying, you will be able to walk around no problem.
Do quests while your stats are low, try to get someone to feel sympathy for you, drink away your sorrows. The curse is only going to get worse and likely the more you complain about how it is, the quicker it will become more severe.
We've been through this all before when it was implemented. This thread is probably on a short leash now.
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Another idea for the curse: Aphasia
This can be implemented easily. Some examples:
1. Confusion/replacements of characters/vowels: "Hulp mu! I dun't fuul su guud!"
2. Confusion of words: "Left I just realm death the. I dizzy feel now."
3. Deletion of characters/speech sounds: "Aargh, cn anyne ndersand m?"
Us thus tuu much? :P
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I'd stay away from your option 3. That makes too much confusion with people that simply can't type very well. And as you are supposed to think of what you read as what your char is hearing, option 3 doesn't make as much sense in that regard either.
I like option one though.
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I like the blinded/hindering of movement suggestion but perhaps with our large contingent of non native English speakers messing with speech is not such a good idea
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For all the critics of using "die" as a shortcut:
1. I do not think it is unfair because everyone can use it and nobody gets hurt or harmed. And what will be the next thing you want? Should players be forced to use the paths instead of the wilderness, because it is "unfair" that they are faster, compared to the newbies when going straight through?
2. It is a possibility (with a consequence) and as every other possibility in this game it is being and will be used in the future. If you don't want to do it, fine, but don't try to force others to your ethics, please.
3. As someone pointed out, we do spend real life time in this world. And for me (an Enki) it is often a complete waste of time, running from BD back to Oja. Have you ever checked how much time it really takes?
4. As long as there is no faster way to travel (by flying with a creature, using a magic gate or something similar) I do not see a point for wasting my time running stupidly through the wilderness. Reason? It helps absolutely *nobody* if I do. Because if I want to get from one point to another I will run as fast as possible and won't do any roleplay anyway.
5. I think someone else pointed that out to: DR is just another map, there to explore. There is more than just the way to the exit. And why should it be ooc in any way, when I am (as a curious character) want to explore everything, including the land of the dead?
6. And this is a very important reason to me: Many times when I went to DR I found newbies who were hopelessly lost. I did help them when they asked me, so I think, though it is not intended, it is a good thing to use "die" and it even can lead to some roleplay. I said before, I use it when I am in a hurry, but when I know I can save all the time I would have used running from BD to Oja, I can take things a little slower, so yes, there *is* a lot more roleplay for me when I'm in DR than when I run madly through the wilderness
7. The problem with stronger punishment is also: Should every death be punished more? If so, this is extremely unfair too, because it punishes everyone who is more into fighting or exploring (think about accidental falls from high places) over those that only do quests.
All in all, I would be seriously annoyed if what you call "abusement" will be punished more harshly in the future.
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Mrokii... Hehe... I don't think you understand what the Death Realm is. :P
So, you're saying that one should just stab him/herself in the heart because he/she's too lazy to run from the Eagle Bronze Doors to Ojaveda? Think rationally. No character would want to commit suicide for something so tedious. Just because characters can come back from the dead doesn't mean they should continuously kill themselves. Why, you ask? Well...
It's painful for the character. Duh...
Why not use those long appendages attached below your butt? They're there for a reason.
According to settings, I think, sometimes characters will not come back from death. So it's risky.
The curse... Well, it isn't much compared to other games. It shouldn't hinder anyone much, but it's still a curse, and you shouldn't want it.
You'd have to be an effin' lazy moron to kill yourself over something so tedious as getting from the Eagle Bronze Doors to Ojaveda. If you don't want to do that, then why go to Eagle Bronze Doors in the first place? You can easily avoid that. PlaneShift may be a fantasy world, but it's still roughly realistic. No one should abuse the /die command because they're bums.
You seem like an impatient one, Mrokii. :P
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I agree with what Raa said: nobody would do this repeatedly to his/herself because it's painful. In game it seems to be just typing /die, but try a general anaesthesia in RL and tell me if you want to do it again. When I think about it now, the anaesthesia has other similarities to our Death Realm too: you might not come back (it's in the settings like Raa mentioned) and you have a curse after that which goes away as time passes. So it's realistic ;D.
Because if I want to get from one point to another I will run as fast as possible and won't do any roleplay anyway.
If people would always do straight from one point to another, maybe Planeshift wouldn't exist at all now because everybody would be too absorbed with their work. The fact that Ojaveda and Bronze Doors at the two opposite ends of the atm known Yliakum doesn't mean that you need to run all the distance with your eyes closed. When you reach Hydlaa, stop and see what's going on at Harns or if you have more time, take a rest at Kadas. Be flexible! Maybe you have a chore to do in Hydlaa too? Why run back from Ojaveda later? Use the opportunity!
5. I think someone else pointed that out to: DR is just another map, there to explore. There is more than just the way to the exit. And why should it be ooc in any way, when I am (as a curious character) want to explore everything, including the land of the dead?
Then don't use /die. Roleplay your death and try to die in battle or jump off something :P.
7. The problem with stronger punishment is also: Should every death be punished more? If so, this is extremely unfair too, because it punishes everyone who is more into fighting or exploring (think about accidental falls from high places) over those that only do quests.
I think I heard that somewhere: "We are equal in death".
greetings,
morla
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So, you're saying that one should just stab him/herself in the heart because he/she's too lazy to run from the Eagle Bronze Doors to Ojaveda?
I'm fairly certain Mrokii's saying people shouldn't scold others for using the Death Realm shortcut, due to how time consuming running between the major quest locations is. Not everyone finds enjoyment in such long travels and players with scarce time, yet strong desire for roleplay would rather shut their eyes to the realistic travelling and instead seek some fun in some more creative forms of roleplay.
Yup, I believe that's what has been said.
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As I said, it all takes time and many changes to how death works will come in time.
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I'm fairly certain Mrokii's saying people shouldn't scold others for using the Death Realm shortcut, due to how time consuming running between the major quest locations is. Not everyone finds enjoyment in such long travels and players with scarce time, yet strong desire for roleplay would rather shut their eyes to the realistic travelling and instead seek some fun in some more creative forms of roleplay.
Getting from one distant point to another is always time consuming. If you'd rather 'creative roleplay' than travel, why are you in BD and trying to get to Oja in the first place? A quest, you say... ah, I see. So you want the benefit of the quest without actually doing the work. I thought that was 'godmodding' not 'creative roleplay'.
My only complaint about Dakkru's curse is that for DW followers it creates a punishment where there should be none. If, as settings tells us, DW isn't evil, it's merely a different way of magic, then why do I need to die and take the curse simply to train in my art? No other way imposes such a drastic price on training. If I have to go to DR to train, then it seems like there should be an early DW spell that offsets that. Some kind of 'Get Out of DR' card that is automatically applied (only) after training.
Other than that I think it's a good thing.
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My only complaint about Dakkru's curse is that for DW followers it creates a punishment where there should be none. If, as settings tells us, DW isn't evil, it's merely a different way of magic, then why do I need to die and take the curse simply to train in my art? No other way imposes such a drastic price on training. If I have to go to DR to train, then it seems like there should be an early DW spell that offsets that. Some kind of 'Get Out of DR' card that is automatically applied (only) after training.
Totally agree there... Having to kill yourself just for that is a pain in the butt, and has pissed me off to the point that I've quit training in everything. I don't want to /die, come back after levelling up, wait for a curse to lift, and then travel back to Hydlaa from Ojaveda. There's no point when I could be wasting my time doing much more productive stuff.
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You mean like leveling several times while you are in the DR? Take a load of pps and tria and practice your dark way on the wrathrats and crackerjacks.
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Those don't give much PPs, though, and that's not really what I mean.
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I suppose not but one practice point per casting regardless of the target, if you bring your progression points with you you can still make several levels in a trip. Are you not prepared to suffer for your art? Where better to learn Dark Way than in the realm of the Dark Crystal
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Prolix, Dark Way isn't, like, a bad kind of magic. It's the same as the others, so it should deserve the same treatment. Just because something is "dark" doesn't mean it's evil; "light" can be just as bad. Take Monty Python's killer rabbit for example.
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Where did I say anything about evil?
Oh and the Vorpal Bunny was slain with the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch which would seem to suggest it was evil as far as Arthur and his Knights were concerned.
I suspect that eventually other crystals will be discovered and there may be effects associated with their trainers location that would be similar to DR. There are six Ways set out at right angles to each other just like a xyz 3d axis. They are aligned such that two sets of three complement each other which would be analogous to positive and negative number lines. It would not surprise me at all if eventually three crystals are discovered in Yliakum and three in the Death Realm. Purest speculation, of course.
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Whatever.
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The punishment for going into the DR is both fair as wel as well backed up (story-wise). The theory about how Dakkru's Curse is to discourage people from dying is very creative and i have to hand it to the devs there.
Who said that the dark way was evil?
That rabbit was DEFINATELY evil, btw :devil:
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Prolix, Dark Way isn't, like, a bad kind of magic. It's the same as the others, so it should deserve the same treatment. Just because something is "dark" doesn't mean it's evil; "light" can be just as bad. Take Monty Python's killer rabbit for example.
No, it's not the same as others. Dark way magic has its source in the dark crystal, whereas all the other ways have their source in the azure sun.
So as Prolix implied, the realm of the dark crystal may be a good place to train it.
As to "bad" however, the dark way is reputed for causing disasters and epidemics, while the magic itself deals with summoning demons and undead (if we're talking about zombies here, keep in mind such activity would directly oppose the Yliakum's law - the dead bodies are dumped for a reason) as well as mind manipulation. And if you talk with some of the NPC dark way practitioners, it appears obvious the contact with the dark crystal and all its demons brought them severe insanity.
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Prolix, Dark Way isn't, like, a bad kind of magic. It's the same as the others, so it should deserve the same treatment. Just because something is "dark" doesn't mean it's evil; "light" can be just as bad. Take Monty Python's killer rabbit for example.
$NPC says: Stick with me and you'll be off and running with any magical way you like. Yes, even the Dark Way, but I will only show you a little before I start to question your motives.
It would seem that there's certainly something "bad" about it, even if it isn't strictly evil of itself.
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....as well as mind manipulation...
That's more about Azure's way feature afaik... At least that kind of more direct mind influence.
Dark way's mind influence could possibly (and imho) mean some fear invoking, or something like that.
And... to my opinions.
Dark way is, or shouldn't be evil. Always depends on use of the way, crystal or azure can be same evil as this one. Just the source of energy and potential of spells is different then other ways. It has closer to being used for wrong things though, cause it's essence.
I would like PS to restrict from the common types of gameplay we see everywhere.
Dark, brown, red way = Evil characters (ala horde in WoW)
Crystal, Azure, Blue = Good characters (ala Alliance)
:)
-Next point is.. Yeah, I'd like to see possibility to train dark way without dieing. Most of reasons are said in this topic already.
-Next point: DR should be something what player, same as character really, really regret to enter. (I really hate that characters who run out of DR in 2 minutes, stands next to you and mumbles 'Meh, I really hate that'.. feels weird.) :D
Just my opinions. :flowers:
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That's more about Azure's way feature afaik... At least that kind of more direct mind influence.
Dark way is more direct. According to the website, dark way allows subtle control of people's minds, while azure way just influence.
And I always hated that naive "it all depends on how you use the magic". Dealing with demons and undead should be slightly more corrupting than dealing with nature through the brown way, or invoking courage in your companions through the red way.
I'd like to compare this to 2nd ed of WFRP, where brown magic winds with time stigmatize you with wild personality and some physical traits akin to those of animals; red winds stigmatize you with a violent personality and also a great passion; purple (death) winds stigmatize you with a miserable body and an anti-social personality... But it's another matter entirely when you decide to become a necromancer, or sign a pact with the demons. That's when the dark winds start to mutate or putrefy your body, while your mind moves towards insanity, slowly, but surely falling under control of one of the chaos gods.
But oh well... We can't expect PS to be as dark as the WFRP.
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WTF is WFRP?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_Fantasy_Roleplay ;)
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And I always hated that naive "it all depends on how you use the magic". Dealing with demons and undead should be slightly more corrupting than dealing with nature through the brown way, or invoking courage in your companions through the red way.
I'd like to compare this to 2nd ed of WFRP, where brown magic winds with time stigmatize you with wild personality and some physical traits akin to those of animals; red winds stigmatize you with a violent personality and also a great passion; purple (death) winds stigmatize you with a miserable body and an anti-social personality... But it's another matter entirely when you decide to become a necromancer, or sign a pact with the demons. That's when the dark winds start to mutate or putrefy your body, while your mind moves towards insanity, slowly, but surely falling under control of one of the chaos gods.
But oh well... We can't expect PS to be as dark as the WFRP.
It has closer to being used for wrong things though, cause it's essence.
I agree. I mean just that dark doesn't mean evil at first thought.
And with the magic effects I used in game info.... :)
Hehe.. and that FWRP sounds too drastic for my taste ^.^ Good idea though.
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Dark way is intrinsic to the dark crystal and in order to master it you must have some proximity to study it.
The DR is intended to be much more elaborate than it is, tough beans, wait for it.
Enjoy Death(tm)
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I hate life. :(
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If you just want to discourage the use of DR as a map-shortcut I think someone did mention a good solution earlier in this thread: multiple spawnpoints. When you leave DR you could either a)go to a spawnpoint close to where you died or b)go to a random spawnpoint.
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or as mentioned earlier make the DR spawnpoints away from civilization far outside so that you have to travel with the curse back to where you were interested in being, as well as having it be the closest spawn point to location of death.
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Would having the curse half the max quality of all items (that have a quality, eg swords, armors etc) be an acceptable solution?
That way, there's still a penalty - half damage from weapons (with half the quality), half protection from armor, and (later) when mining is affected by the quality of the tools, same effect there.
It would stop the 'make a cup of tea for 30 min' effect, and also create a further need for items (helping the economy)
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If you are suggesting a permanent reduction I do not think it will fly.
It isn't too hard to get around currently, you just have to be careful of your weight allowance.
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I'm suggesting a permanent reduction :)
Let everyone keep their stats as is, get up and go straight out of the death realm... but put a penalty on all their material goods (damage from the dark crystal if you will).
It'll make the death realm far less appealing. For those who have to go there on purpose (to train), they'll soon be able to bank their items before hand and suffer no ill effects.
It'll lesson the impact on new characters a lot, who generally use store brought equipment which is easy to replace.
Eventually weapons and armors are likely to decay a lot faster (for economic reasons) - this may allow that decay to be less, and reward careful players with less costs of replacing their equipment!
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Heh, I really look forward to the seven pages of complaint that will coincide ANY change to the penalty.
/me transmits his perspective on the issue to every mind commenting here.
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He has a point dieing shouldnt be a reward now the unstick thing it will be nessesare but yes the commiting suicied to save time thats just wrong plus you dont get to commit cicide and come back with everything like nothing happened there should be a conciquenece such as lossing stuff.
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He has a point dieing shouldnt be a reward now the unstick thing it will be nessesare but yes the commiting suicied to save time thats just wrong plus you dont get to commit cicide and come back with everything like nothing happened there should be a conciquenece such as lossing stuff.
Well, no, because then it would be like RuneScape. And imagine if you accidentally died for no specific reason or you couldn't /unstick. That would suck, wouldn't it?
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How about dropping the curse and just remove 1 point from a random stat? No big deal if it you only die occasionally but enough to stop "DR-tourism". ;)
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Im not saying that you shouldnt for unsticking resons but just dieing to get places faster is just......lazy!
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I'm fairly certain Mrokii's saying people shouldn't scold others for using the Death Realm shortcut, due to how time consuming running between the major quest locations is. Not everyone finds enjoyment in such long travels and players with scarce time, yet strong desire for roleplay would rather shut their eyes to the realistic travelling and instead seek some fun in some more creative forms of roleplay.
Yup, exactly my point :) And sorry for being so quiet. I have a week of forced offline behind me (and suffer hardly from offloneliness, hihi)...
I still do not think that using DR as a shortcut is unfair in any way. It is a way, everyone can use and it has consequences, so everyone can decide about it.
Getting from one distant point to another is always time consuming. If you'd rather 'creative roleplay' than travel, why are you in BD and trying to get to Oja in the first place?
You missing my point. The time I waste for travelling throughout the land for several minutes is lost time for roleplay. So, in getting faster to where I want to go, I have more time to do real roleplaying.
A quest, you say... ah, I see. So you want the benefit of the quest without actually doing the work. I thought that was 'godmodding' not 'creative roleplay'.
And that is simply not true. I already do a lot of work by travelling from Oja to BD alone, for example. No quest can be solved in an instant just by using DR. And it also isn't godmodding as I do not change anything of the game mechanics but I only use what the game allows me to do.
So, you're saying that one should just stab him/herself in the heart because he/she's too lazy to run from the Eagle Bronze Doors to Ojaveda? Think rationally. No character would want to commit suicide for something so tedious.
Sorry, but this is nothing but a too typical prejudice. Why am I forced to think "rational"? How do you want to know what I would do as a character? Think about that: If we had the possibility to "visit" death in real life in any way, at least some people would try it out because curiosity is what drives people. And some would even risk their life to try out new things.
All I am saying is: Just because most players think that it is not "rational" to use DR as a shortcut (or for whatever other reason) doesn't mean it really is. There may be others (and I know a few, beside of myself) who love to climb around, find hidden places and such things. Or what about those that simply like the look of DR (I do like more creepy stuff for example) and want to walk around there from time to time? Should they be punished just because the majority of players think they are insane or irrational? I think not.
And a last thing: What about those players (as I also did a few times) who commit suicide just to help others to find the way out of DR. Should players be punished for their aim to be helpful to others?
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You missing my point. The time I waste for travelling throughout the land for several minutes is lost time for roleplay. So, in getting faster to where I want to go, I have more time to do real roleplaying.
Travelling is roleplay. Roleplay is like life for your character. There aren't any shortcuts unless you cheat, and that's basically what you're doing.
And that is simply not true. I already do a lot of work by travelling from Oja to BD alone, for example. No quest can be solved in an instant just by using DR. And it also isn't godmodding as I do not change anything of the game mechanics but I only use what the game allows me to do.
Just because you're allowed to do something doesn't mean you should. And it is godmodding in a way. You'd have your character go through the pain of killing him/herself, and then expect to come back. According to settings, you might not, so it's kind of godmodding to commit suicide repeatedly and come out of the DR in about three minutes just to make life easier for you.
All I am saying is: Just because most players think that it is not "rational" to use DR as a shortcut (or for whatever other reason) doesn't mean it really is. There may be others (and I know a few, beside of myself) who love to climb around, find hidden places and such things. Or what about those that simply like the look of DR (I do like more creepy stuff for example) and want to walk around there from time to time? Should they be punished just because the majority of players think they are insane or irrational? I think not.
Sure, it may be fun to climb around one of the most boring maps in PS (all of them are boring, actually), but I really think that's just an excuse. One may want to walk around there from time to time, but I wouldn't think they would kill themselves over that, even if they really were insane/irrational. Have you ever tried to kill yourself? It's a lot more trouble than it's worth. Yeah, you're probably going to return to Yliakum, but it should take at least a day, maybe even a week (in the future, the DR will be bigger, and it will probably be harder to escape). So, they should be "punished," but not because of what players think. Players had nothing to do with the curse.
And a last thing: What about those players (as I also did a few times) who commit suicide just to help others to find the way out of DR. Should players be punished for their aim to be helpful to others?
Yep, they should. If someone is stuck in the Death Realm, it's their fault, and they should go find someone who's already in the DR to help them. Even if you /die to help them OOCly, you should be "punished." It's not a big deal. I don't even see why it's called a punishment. I mean, really, it's only a twenty minute "curse." Go find something else to do while you wait.
Honestly, Mrokii, I don't think we can change your opinions. But, either way, you should obey the developers and what they want. It's their game, after all.
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Ok, so the size of the death realm or the difficulty seems to create the problem at hand.
SO maybe the mods should focus on the death realm first to put an end to exploitation. If nothing else - make the monsters aggressive.
I'm not saying expanding the death realm is at all easy - theres alot that goes into creating it - from the scenery I can tell that alot of work went into it's first expansion, but apparantly it's not enough to deter people from taking an Arnald Swatzenegger like stance on life and guttin themselves with the words "I'll be back" on their lips. Or for the more dramatic of you - a reenactment of bladerunner should see you through the worst...
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What realy puzzels me is that this game is supposed to be as realistic as a fantasy game gets and if you die and somehow manage to come back (unlikely) you probable wont be happy but wont come back with your utility belt.
You get the picture.
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I know this would be taking from yet another game but I like what I saw in one that when you die you must make your way from where you spawn back to your dead body within a time limit to regain all lost equipment. Now I know that is a tough penalty especially if added to the curse but I think it would be more realistic and stop the majority of the 'shortcut' takers because for the most part these people are using it as a short cut to their trainer/merchant or the next step in a particular quest, which most have an item that has to be traded to the next NPC to get the dialogue to continue. As well it is much more realistic because most often the spirit is the one that transfers and not the body, i.e. settings stating the body is dumped down the burial wells if it isn't consumed by some critter.
Like I said I expect to get some flaming from some for 'stealing' the idea but someone can enlighten me as to which game that was I only watched my cousin play it once.
Just an idea the other would be to spawn where you died but I guess that would be hard on the game mechanics and the server.
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WoW It must have really made an impression on you (http://web.ncf.ca/cr502/great_googley_woogley.gif)
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As well it is much more realistic because most often the spirit is the one that transfers and not the body, i.e. settings stating the body is dumped down the burial wells if it isn't consumed by some critter.
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The burial wells are for those who died the true dead because of old age and/or poisoning. Those who died the false dead, where they wake up in the death realm will leave no body as this body is also taken away to the death realm. Body, Armor and Equipment. Maybe even the fleas ;D
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Thanks Prolix for letting me know where it came from
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why don't the ps team make it so that when you come out of the dr, you are confined to a certain area for an hour to recover? just an idea.