PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: bilbous on September 16, 2007, 04:01:24 am
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Maybe they should throw out all the character development mechanisms, randomly generate a whack of characters of various abilities and assign them arbitrarily to anyone who logs in.There would be no more power leveling, no leveling at all. You take the character you are given and role play it as best you can. If you do not like the character you are assigned, logout and back in to get another one if available. Have the first screen shown be a character synopsis with standard features as well as user input notes from the last person who played it about what they did. Make those available from in the game as well. You could also have selector switches to indicate a type preference.
That would make a true MMORPG.
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Glad you said never to be implemented.....While that would definately end powerleveling and make this a true rp game I'd hate it because you would play random characters and with fixed abilities never be able to see that character grow....Still would be the ultimate rp game....just don't want to see it happen because leveling helps make a game to...
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That would make a true MMORPG.
No it wouldn't.
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Well you could build in some kind of leveling criteria, gains made for having the characters standard goals advanced. But it would be more like improv olympics where actors are thrown odd characters and situations and told to play it out. I think it would be interesting to see how people take the same characters and put a different spin on it. The chance that you would see the same character very often would likely be pretty slim.
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Well you could build in some kind of leveling criteria, gains made for having the characters standard goals advanced. But it would be more like improv olympics where actors are thrown odd characters and situations and told to play it out. I think it would be interesting to see how people take the same characters and put a different spin on it. The chance that you would see the same character very often would likely be pretty slim.
Ok. How is this relevant to Planeshift though?
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Its that whole fact that its almost like improv in a play that takes away from the rp part for me. Sure its fun to use different characters but I like to keep a few special ones that I play with frequently, watch them evolve and change as I continue to play them. Would be lost if I were playing a different character every day...
As for leveling that goes with the character thing. Every day I'd be leveling something different....Maybe releveling the same levels...no fun in that when I can't see the work of my own leveling pay off, constantly switching.
It would make an intresting game but I doubt one I would play often.
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In a way it would also be like those gaming convention role play tournaments and you could keep track of your successes in a meta-competition so that the better you play the character and advance its goals the more point you get on the scoreboard. That way you could get the benefit of personal advancement while practicing adoption of new characterizations.
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In a way it would also be like those gaming convention role play tournaments and you could keep track of your successes in a meta-competition so that the better you play the character and advance its goals the more point you get on the scoreboard. That way you could get the benefit of personal advancement while practicing adoption of new characterizations.
Such things are subjective to such an extent that they cannot be scored.
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do you realise this would completely screw up the guild system and how would you keep money? you need money to be saved
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@Zanzibar: And yet D&D tournaments have been scoring them for years. All it would take is to have clearly defined character goals set out in the character biography and have a system to award points for meeting them. For example if your character is a teetotaling swordmaker and you chose to go to the tavern, get drunk and play a zither you would get no points for the session but if you stayed in your shop, crafted a quality short sword and gave a lecture on abstinence to the drunken fighter who commissioned it you would get a good reward. It is true that such a system would be difficult to code but you could code many triggers for any activity.
@Sheneer This is the Hydlaa Plaza, we are not talking about PS here, but to I'll try to address your objections, The guild system, to me is out of context to the game as it is but in this system I have proposed you could have teams of players and keep track of team scores as well and individuals. Some kind of provision could be made in the game to provide for team coordination but that might not be too helpful as team members might be on different sides of any ongoing events. I suppose allowance could be made for a team to all login together so as to minimize this possibility but helping a teammate at the expense of your current character's faction would not be good for your individual rating unless it can be considered in character for the one you are playing. This would be a situation where Zanzibar's objection of subjectivity would become extremely relevant. It might be a case for a referee to take action.
As far as saving money you would not need money as it would be part of the character's starting state. It might be that there would be a base minimum all characters begin with to counter the possibility that the previous player just trashed the character. Hopefully there could be a system to weed out those kinds of players. That is not to say that characters played faithfully might not find themselves penniless at the end of a session but for the most part the idea of the game is to leave your character better off than you found him. Should your character happen to die that would end your session, whether or not the character itself would return is uncertain at this point.
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Planeshift is a completely different game. Would make an interesting game in its own right though. Could we talk about things that would make it interesting? If two players logged in at the same time they could find themselves at the top of a tower with a brief synopsis of why they are in that situation and the fact they are enemy's for such and such a reason. The many people who had been put into the tavern situation, one having been told they are the local drunk, another told they are a mysterious traveller could then be told they hear fighting outside and the patrons leave the bar to witness the battle. The one who dies in the battle is automatically logged out. As in this game there is no death realm. A game that could throw these random situations at you would make a great RP experience. But then it could have just been a quiet drink in the pub... you would never know what was going to happen.
* I don't see why there couldn't just be a lot of beggars. One day someone is put in the situation where their character is compelled to rid the city of them.
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This would be a situation where Zanzibar's objection of subjectivity would become extremely relevant.
He shoots!
It might be a case for a referee to take action.
And he misses.
In PS, people RP because they enjoy roleplaying. I don't see why that should change.
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Absolutely! the HP is a place to make hamburger (shoot the bull).
I would think most of the beggars would be thieves as well, so your hero might have a bit of trouble clearing them out. I think there might have to be some NPCs in the game but they would be available for player possession so while they would need their automatic routines they would also need a mechanism for player control.
The discussion so far has not touched on any kind of settings, it could be adopted to fantasy, science fiction or even pseudo-realistic type atmosphere.
@Zanzibar Some people just like to cause trouble, I do not suppose this game would be immune to that. Oversight would be a necessity in my opinion.
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modern day and my fight could be a punch up in a back alley near the local drinking hole! The beggars i was thinking about were the ones that were made because a player had trashed a character and so they could be perfectly well moraled people. Though the hero would still purge them. The beggars that the system creates could well be thieves. You shouldn't be given long term tasks though just short ones. For example, if you log in as a thief you should be posed with the task of stealing 50 pounds from a pubs patrons and escaping into the night or something.
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There's a minor difference between general moderation and having a rigid system of RP scoring.
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I don't think I'd RP any differently if someone was scoring it anyway so it would be rather pointless.
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Sure enough, there are two different issues here. The scoring would be objective based with characters being judged favorably for performing suitable tasks and penalized for unsuitable. The list of task rewards/penalties, per character or type, could even be public. Such a system would indubitably reward those more experienced with the system better than newcomers but most things in life are like that.
The referees would be needed to deal with those players deliberately abusing the system in whatever way they might dream up. If this sounds a little generic it is because the system is imaginary and there are no specifics to speak
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Sure enough, there are two different issues here. The scoring would be objective based with characters being judged favorably for performing suitable tasks and penalized for unsuitable. The list of task rewards/penalties, per character or type, could even be public. Such a system would indubitably reward those more experienced with the system better than newcomers but most things in life are like that.
The referees would be needed to deal with those players deliberately abusing the system in whatever way they might dream up. If this sounds a little generic it is because the system is imaginary and there are no specifics to speak
It might be objective based, but would it be objective?
How many more GMs would we need for this to be feasible? Fifty? A hundred?
This would require that a character's "goals" be made public. But what about allowing a character to evolve, and what about the mystery of not knowing everything about the characters you meet?
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why score? the whole idea of roleplaying is that you do it because you want to
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why score? the whole idea of roleplaying is that you do it because you want to
Well, IMO, it's more a matter of "you do it because it's what your character would do". But I don't think you can RP a character someone else has written as well as a character that you yourself have written. I also think that the characters that would be generated by Bilbous would be more dry and generic. Also, Bilbous is proposing a system that would create a new kind of powerleveller.
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But I don't think you can RP a character someone else has written as well as a character that you yourself have written.
Pretty much instead of rp it would be a improv play. You would be acting a role and while the outcome may not be set your still pretty much using a script to rp the character.
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If there is no scoring it is not a game. Just because someone is a smith doesn't mean he can't have a fantastical adventure. Perhaps he hears tell of a star falling to earth and decides he wants to hire some body guards and go look for it to make unusual weapons from. Maybe he just hires someone to go in his place. Of course if you wish to look at it narrowly you will fail to see the possibilities. I suppose to demonstrate it further I'd have to develop it in actuality and that just isn't happening.
Dream your little dreams, I like mine big. This passing fancy of mine is nearly gone and no difference has been made but I was amused for a bit. Can you ask anything more from a daydream?
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If there is no scoring it is not a game.
This is not necessarily true.
Dream your little dreams, I like mine big.
???
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Name a game with no metrics even if only won/lost or unfinished/completed.
Instead of looking at the idea with a mind to how it is lacking, look for ways it might be made acceptable.
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Name a game with no metrics even if only won/lost or unfinished/completed.
The Circle Game. :D
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Is that the one Joni Mitchell sang about? The Circle Game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep7uySNpUyw) It starts with birth and ends with death....
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I'm not sure I completely agree with the idea as I haven't put much thought into it...but I like where you are going. As a genre I find MMORPGs to be completely stale and lifeless, and it would need some radical thinking to truly break free from the pit I believe it to be in.
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Is that the one Joni Mitchell sang about? The Circle Game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep7uySNpUyw) It starts with birth and ends with death....
Or does it?
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Well in a sense "The Circle Game" is a metaphor which is a word-game, if you will, the metric will be the cleverness of the play as well as depth of meaning and ease of comprehension.
It is a good thing this is the Hydlaa Plaza (yes I originally posted in the wrong place by accident and then had a conversation with neko which led to the HP) as I can indulge the topic being led astray.
Thank you Waterman for bringing it back on topic and let me know if you have any further thought that might improve the idea. It is all kind of theoretical as I certainly have no plans to implement it but someone might take it up I suppose.
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Well in a sense "The Circle Game" is a metaphor which is a word-game, if you will, the metric will be the cleverness of the play as well as depth of meaning and ease of comprehension.
It is a good thing this is the Hydlaa Plaza (yes I originally posted in the wrong place by accident and then had a conversation with neko which led to the HP) as I can indulge the topic being led astray.
Thank you Waterman for bringing it back on topic and let me know if you have any further thought that might improve the idea. It is all kind of theoretical as I certainly have no plans to implement it but someone might take it up I suppose.
Actually, I made a post requesting the topic be moved. My post was deleted after it was acted on.
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Yes, you posted that after my discussion with neko started, it was off-topic and already redundant.
The original mistake was mine, of course. Now if you have more to say about the topic at hand I would be glad to hear it. This digression does not serve any purpose. If there are no more comments about the titular topic this thread can gracefully sink beneath the waves and fade into history.
I do hope to hear more about my radical idea but that is just my ego playing "kitten" and wanting to be stroked.
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bilbous, this is actually not far from something I had been planning for a different kind of roleplaying event for new characters only (the core part).
All characters would join a House (guild). They are all required to play certain types of characters with a specific goal. Points are awarded in an in character manner for actions, reactions, popularity, and sanity (staying IC). Winner takes all.
If a person can not stay in their semi-assigned character and follow the simple rules, well then, they are not the roleplayer they thought themselves to be.
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Sounds interesting. How many judges do you plan on having? How are you going to assign characters? Will you expect the characters to last beyond the event?
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Q: How many judges do you plan on having?
A: Everyone in the House is a judge. Or rather, they can all give and take points (limited).
Q: How are you going to assign characters?
A: The character types that are allowed are set out clearly at the begining. Folks can choose which of the types they want to play. The rules and sytem of points will ensure they stay in that charcter.
Q: Will you expect the characters to last beyond the event?
A: Now that is not up to me. But seeings how the best roleplayers and craftiest folks will get to the end, some very interesting characters should come out of it.
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Wow, I'd love to see that get off the ground. Though people would probably be pretty selfish and not give points and so the whole event would spin down into a pit of nastiness. Obviously I would be lovely and nice and give out points fairly :innocent:
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If a person can not stay in their semi-assigned character and follow the simple rules, well then, they are not the roleplayer they thought themselves to be.
Or maybe they just don't like the character you gave them. :)
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If a person can not stay in their semi-assigned character and follow the simple rules, well then, they are not the roleplayer they thought themselves to be.
Or maybe they just don't like the character you gave them. :)
Folks can choose which of the types they want to play.
My guess is there isn't really much chance for that ;D
All characters would join a House (guild). They are all required to play certain types of characters with a specific goal. Points are awarded in an in character manner for actions, reactions, popularity, and sanity (staying IC). Winner takes all.
That sounds like fun, yet I hope you have a wide range of character types for one to choose among. I know I'm completely horrible trying to rp certain roles while I enjoy rping others and if someone simular to be choose a role they could not rp that might not display them to truely be lesser of the rper they think they were, just worst at that roll.
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Hmm well say you get a smith and you have trouble playing smiths you could always play a really lazy one or invent some other reason why you are extremely reluctant to work at the forge...it is just a matter of using your imagination and then adding detail to your characterization to support the direction you have chosen. It really depends on how narrowly defined the starting types are.
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Hmm well say you get a smith and you have trouble playing smiths you could always play a really lazy one or invent some other reason why you are extremely reluctant to work at the forge...it is just a matter of using your imagination and then adding detail to your characterization to support the direction you have chosen. It really depends on how narrowly defined the starting types are.
There isn't much room for imagination if "the good" is defined by a narrow and specific scoring system. You can't have it both ways... room for creativity, and narrowly defined starting types, both at once.
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Ah! I think I lost you, the conversation has turned from my original idea to UTM's prospective event which is somewhat similar in nature. He has not offered any specific scoring system other than that the participants will be judging each other. My comment was generally in response to Duraza's last sentence in the post directly above mine.
Hope this helps.
I am not sure my system would necessarily "narrow" although it was intended to be specific. I knew a guy who designed a role-playing game where the standard dice roll was "permillage" as he said, that is 3 ten sided dice with one color for 1-10, another from 0-90 by tens and one from 0-900 by hundreds and he had categories no wider than 5 points. Using a similar system you could award points for a wide range of activities. It would be specific but not narrow.
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It all sounds very elaborate. Your friend didn't by chance help design Canada's tax forms?
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I do not think so, he was one of those permanent students. Designing tax forms would mean actually getting a job. I think he ran the game for a while but I had too much trouble getting through the character generation. The thing is with a computer game all that could be transparent to the players so they would not have to care very much.
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This is, without a doubt, the worst idea for an RPG that I have ever heard of. Ever. :o The "game" you want is called Second Life.
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I do not see the connection, really, could you supply details as to how Second Life fulfills the parameters I set out for my game? Are you experienced with Second Life or are you just talking about what you think it is like? Also I do not think Second Life is a Role Playing Game, it is a simulation, but perhaps you could explain to me how the two are not different. As far as I can tell an RPG has definable goals and story whereas in simulations stuff just happens, roleplay is incidental the action. Of course a Real Time Simulation [RTS] is usually a type of war game unrelated to a pure simulation.
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This sounds like an experiment conducted by a university's sociology department. A fascinating one at that.
I think while it would be fun at first, it would become gimmick-y fast.
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to answer the origanal post, its good idea, exept they would run out of chars eventually.
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I'll just come straight out and say this, it's an outright stupid idea.
Leveling aside, people get attached to their characters, it's part of the essence of playing the game for many people.
I play because i want to take a weak character through strength to strength, not to start a new character every game.
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Nice idea, then I would never have to level again. I could just relog a couple of times till I got a character with stats and skills close to what ever particular occupation I want to play that day and go at it. I can craft one hour relog and cast spells the next with out the months/years it take now to gain exp/PP and tria for the same result. Right on, it would make testing so much easier. Too bad it will never get implemented.