PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Silavur on October 25, 2007, 11:44:54 pm
-
So this thread is being started to compile a list of PS applicable questions so we know if our characters are "Mary-Sue's" For all the background on this please read this thread: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30519.0
Please list here questions that you think weed out the stereotypical from the original. Also if you feel a particular question does not help discern this, please offer your thoughts so we can put together the best list possible. And remember that just because your character might have a few of these qualities, does not mean your a Mary-Sue. Only if your character has an overwhelming amount of these qualities. These questions are NOT intended to call out or pick on any specific person's RP in game.
"Is your character blind? Because of a tragic accident? Because of nature's cruel way?"
"Does your character talk of senseless violence to be seen dueling randomly in the plaza later that day?"
"Does your character happen to be royalty from a distant land? Did they come to Yliakum out of resentment of that royalty?"
Add more and critique mine.
-
"Were your parents killed? Together with the rest of your village?"
-
Was your character a vampire who stole his or her power from biting a Talad the giant rock?
-
Does your character have a heart wrenching, tear jerkingly tragic background?
-
Is your character the Lord/Lady/Master/Mistress of Darkness?
Is your character able to produce miraculous potions that heal all ailments/poisons/curses any time, any day?
Does your character rejoice in his/her own evil saying things like "let's do evil things!" or "I'm so evil! (Muahaha)"?
Is your character surrounded by a blinding/overwhelming aura?
Is your character meant to transform the world's government system?
Is your character the best fighter in the realm?
Is your character a specialist miner, crafter, wizard, and warrior?
Does your character have an amulet or relic that allows them to: a) control minds; b) communicate with others telepatically; c) have a sixth sense
Can your character cast spells without glyphs?
Does the word "effortlessly" appear every time your character does something?
Man... I could go on and on and on...
-
Does your character worship a god other than the ones mentioned in char creation?
Is your character a vocal atheist who tries to convert others to atheism?
-
Here's one I thought of while out and about that is my character.
"Does your character feel the need to make every simple statement a witty retort?"
I'm really bad about that.
-
One of the most important:
"Is your character able to fail? Can he accept being imperfect?"
;)
-
Does your character steal, attack, murder and abduct people for no particular reason other than being 'evil'?
Was s/he ever arrested or caught for commiting those crimes?
Has your character a blatant disrespect for the law because you dislike the law?
Does your character fight people with a shady background just because s/he thinks they're 'evil'?
Even without any reason, proof or previous encounters to show for it?
Is s/he 'immune' to the law, despite fighting and harming others, because they're one of the 'good guys'?
(one to add to Jeraphon's points)
Has your character a blatant disrespect for religion because you dislike religion?
-
Going great so far.
Does the word "effortlessly" appear every time your character does something?
I love that one. Reminds me of a particular Kran whose name I shall not mention.
-
Is your character of another, stronger, race than those mentioned in the settings?
-
Is your character taller and more handsome/beautiful than the average dwarf (or whichever race they are)?
Does your character think or wonder about things out loud as in "/me thinks this is a great party" or "/me wonders what's going on"?
Is your character a Kran who is involved with a non-Kran creature (despite the fact that the way in which they reproduce is incompatible with all other races and there are no half-breed Kran)?
Is your character the only half-breed Kran in Yliakum?
-
Does your character think or wonder about things out loud as in "/me thinks this is a great party" or "/me wonders what's going on"?
And then wait for people to respond to it? And when they don't do you repeat it exactly the same way?
-
As in "/me can't understand why nobody answers!" :P
-
You'd make a great bad rper if you tried :P
-
Is your character a Kran who stands on the grinding wheel, jumps up to the sign and hangs out on Harnquists roof despite the fact that neither the wheel nor the sign could likely bear your weight, even if the roof could?
-
Does your description say your character has a devastating figure that men just go gaga for? (or some such thing)
-
Ok so we're doing really well so far! But I think it's time to start revising. Keep submitting questions that you think are relevant of course, but also let's start narrowing the field down a bit. Below are all the questions that have been offered so far. Please take them into consideration and decide which ones are more pertinent and which ones really aren't that bad. I think a list of around 50-75 questions would be quite enough. There are 29 questions below, so keep writing and I'll try to keep this list updated.
*"Is your character blind? Because of a tragic accident? Because of nature's cruel way?"
*"Does your character talk of senseless violence to be seen dueling randomly in the plaza later that day?"
*"Does your character happen to be royalty from a distant land? Did they come to Yliakum out of resentment of that royalty?"
*"Were your parents killed? Together with the rest of your village?"
*Was your character a vampire who stole his or her power from biting a Talad the giant rock?
*Is your character the Lord/Lady/Master/Mistress of Darkness?
*Is your character able to produce miraculous potions that heal all ailments/poisons/curses any time, any day?
*Does your character rejoice in his/her own evil saying things like "let's do evil things!" or "I'm so evil! (Muahaha)"?
*Is your character surrounded by a blinding/overwhelming aura?
*Is your character meant to transform the world's government system?
*Is your character the best fighter in the realm?
*Is your character a specialist miner, crafter, wizard, and warrior?
*Does your character have an amulet or relic that allows them to: a) control minds; b) communicate with others telepatically; c) have a sixth sense
*Can your character cast spells without glyphs?
*Does the word "effortlessly" appear every time your character does something?
*Does your character worship a god other than the ones mentioned in char creation?
*Is your character a vocal atheist who tries to convert others to atheism?
*"Does your character feel the need to make every simple statement a witty retort?"
*"Is your character able to fail? Can he accept being imperfect?"
*Does your character steal, attack, murder and abduct people for no particular reason other than being 'evil'?
Was s/he ever arrested or caught for commiting those crimes?
*Has your character a blatant disrespect for the law because you dislike the law?
*Does your character fight people with a shady background just because s/he thinks they're 'evil'?
Even without any reason, proof or previous encounters to show for it?
*Is s/he 'immune' to the law, despite fighting and harming others, because they're one of the 'good guys'?
* Is your character of another, stronger, race than those mentioned in the settings?
*Is your character taller and more handsome/beautiful than the average dwarf (or whichever race they are)?
*Does your character think or wonder about things out loud as in "/me thinks this is a great party" or "/me wonders what's going on"?
And then wait for people to respond to it? And when they don't do you repeat it exactly the same way?
*Is your character a Kran who is involved with a non-Kran creature (despite the fact that the way in which they reproduce is incompatible with all other races and there are no half-breed Kran)?
Is your character the only half-breed Kran in Yliakum?
*Is your character a Kran who stands on the grinding wheel, jumps up to the sign and hangs out on Harnquists roof despite the fact that neither the wheel nor the sign could likely bear your weight, even if the roof could?
*Does your description say your character has a devastating figure that men just go gaga for? (or some such thing)
-
"Is your character able to fail? Can he accept being imperfect?"
How is that included? I don't see why this should be considered a Mary Sue quality.
-
It's a common mistake to think that because your character is a fighter or they are somewhat heroic they are invincible or unable to screw up.
-
Then that field should be deleted; otherwise you'd add a point for the opposite thing. It should be "Is your character unable to fail? Can he not accept being imperfect?"
-
Its like the character creation. Some give points, some take away. Otherwise you could just click nothing and do great.
-
Yeah, but this isn't a processing engine, and you can't really cheat on yourself...
-
But still. It helps to keep people reading. Wouldn't want people skipping over questions to get to the end or any of that.
-
I think the Mary Sue quality from that question is the quality that they never do fail. "Does you character never fail? Can s/he not accept having to be flawed"
-
Ok, review time ...
*Was your character a vampire who stole his or her power from biting a Talad the giant rock?
I'd say that one needs to be a bit less specific towards the ending. Considering there are no vampires in PS it'd suffice to ask
"Is your character a vampire, werewolf or other creature picked from myths, which should not exist in your world?"
Is your character a Kran who stands on the grinding wheel, jumps up to the sign and hangs out on Harnquists roof despite the fact that neither the wheel nor the sign could likely bear your weight, even if the roof could?
This one can go for my part, it's obviously written to poke fun at certain individuals :p If you want you can turn it into a more general question, also seen in the other lists.
"Does your character defy the laws of physics and nature?"
*Does your description say your character has a devastating figure that men just go gaga for? (or some such thing)
This is the male one but we'll need a female equivalent as well.
-
Agreed on all counts Zan.
"Is your character a vampire, werewolf or other creature picked from myths, which should not exist in your world?"
*Does your description say your character has a devastating figure that men just go gaga for? (or some such thing)
This is the male one but we'll need a female equivalent as well.
I like removing the middle one completely and making those changes you sugested.
*Does your description say you character has a devastating figure that the opposite sex just goes gaga for?
-
Is your idea of roleplaying hanging around a smelly smithy, as opposed to a huge plaza that nobody uses, or a tavern, or basically anywhere EXCEPT said smelly smithy?
-
Note: In the following 'you' and 'your' means 'your character in the game'.
Do your eyes glow?
...Do they change color with your mood?
Are you possessed by demons?
...Do they take over your body to make you do bad things?
Do you have multiple personalities?
...Are some of them 'evil'?
...How many?[check one for each personality]
..
...
...
...
...
...More than 6. [Check all boxes, plus this one. Then go see a therapist.]
Can you lift impossible amounts of weight using /me?
Does your armor RP weigh 1 times your own weight?
...Does your armor RP weigh 2 times your own weight?
...Does your armor RP weigh 3 times your own weight?
...Does your armor RP weigh 4 times your own weight?
Do you have a weapon/thing that only you can touch/hold/use?
...Was it given to you by a dying hero/villain/master?
Do shadows surround you at all times?
Are you taller...
...shorter
...thinner
...thicker
...stronger
...weaker
...better looking
...uglier
...other
...other
...other
...other than most of your race? [check all that apply. Use 'other' if you have unnamed traits.]
Do all the NPC guards work for you?
Are you a well known criminal who hangs out in public places?
... In a tavern?
...Walks right past NPC guards?
Do you use death as a shortcut?
Are you mentioned in a prophecy?
...Are you the hero?
...Are you the savior?
Are you the child of a god?
Are you a god?
Are you the descendant of a god? [If you checked any of these 'god' questions, turn your computer off, walk outside, get in your car or take the bus, go to your nearest shoe store, get some comfy running shoes, drive or ride out to a remote area or park and put the shoes on, run for half an hour, stop...look up at the sky and shout "I AM AN IDIOT!". Go home and make a new character. Enjoy PS much more.]
Do you have god-like powers?
Are you surrounded by a force field that does not allow anyone to touch you?
Were you a slave?
Were you in a non-settings-approved war in your backstory?
...Were you the hero/villain/leader?
...Did you kill more than 20 people in a single battle?
...more than 50?
...more than 100? [check all three]
...more than 1000? [Stop now and erase your character. Start over.]
Do you have a power no one else does?
...more than 1?
...more than 2?
...more than 3?
Is your character immune to poisons others of that race are not?
Do you own a home you did not buy?
Do you order beer by the case at taverns, and drink it all in one sitting with no ill effects?
...Are you drunk for only a few minutes.
Are you a follower of Talad who did the quest to become a follower of Laanx, but still follow Talad?
Are you a 'good' guy who took the 'dark' way into the Winch?
Are you the gods' gift to the opposite sex?
Are you a bikinikran?
In RP fights, do you /me other people's reaction? [example: /me watches as a bolt of energy jumps from her staff, reducing her foe to a trembling body on the floor... If so, never do it again, or find another game to play.]
Your guild stands for the following:
Helping new people.
Fighting for money. [aka, mercs]
Fighting for a cause.
Killing people for money. [aka, assassins or bounty hunters]
Overthrowing the government.
You are your own government.
You are a secret organization that controls the government.
You are the survivors of a war.
Your leader was the victim of some bad event, and started a guild as a result.
It is basically a club.
It has nothing to do with an actual job.
Your guild's name is two or more random words tossed together because they sounded cool.
...I had to use a thesaurus.
...It is Latin.
...It is badly used Latin.
Your name is Latin.
Your name is purposefully Asian sounding.
You run around with your weapons out most of the time.
You run around with two claymores in your hands.
This list may continue....
-
Are you a 'good' guy who took the 'dark' way into the Winch?
- Did you then rectify it by telling the guards? (negative point)
Are you a bikinikran?
I don't want to know ... :P
-
Are you taller...
...shorter
...thinner
...thicker
...stronger
...weaker
...better looking
...uglier
...other
...other
...other
...other than most of your race? [check all that apply. Use 'other' if you have unnamed traits.]
I think that this doesn't apply as much. If these mere Mary-Sue qualities meant to be avoided then you character would have to be exactly as described in the settings. Only when these traits become overwhelmingly against the settings for your race are these Mary-Sue qualities. And even hen only if you have several of them together.
Are you the gods' gift to the opposite sex?
We've already used this one in another form of question.
Your guild stands for the following:
Helping new people.
Fighting for money. [aka, mercs]
Fighting for a cause.
Killing people for money. [aka, assassins or bounty hunters]
Overthrowing the government.
You are your own government.
You are a secret organization that controls the government.
You are the survivors of a war.
Your leader was the victim of some bad event, and started a guild as a result.
It is basically a club.
It has nothing to do with an actual job.
Your guild's name is two or more random words tossed together because they sounded cool.
...I had to use a thesaurus.
...It is Latin.
...It is badly used Latin.
I feel like this is an attack on specific guilds in game. And even if it is not, a guild is a completely other list of questions to test RP competency. And a character had no choice in the name of their guild or the way it is operated. Most join guilds before they knew what RP was, but stay with their guilds even after. [Also on a side note if "survivors of a war" means Survivors of Vaern, then you need to read our history. ;)]
I would also prefer it if the telling people to just stop and make a new charater would stop. I understand the humor implied behind these statements, but some will not understand and I think it's better to not tell someone to "never do it again, or find another game to play" even if they have not quite gotten the full hang of RP fighting. Sorry, I did not mean for this to be a bash on Under the Moon, but I felt it necessary to be said. Of course it is possible that only I have those views, and in that case by all means I am sorry.
-
The points all add up in the end, and having some of those things is not bad. Having a lot of them is.
The question of height/etc has a specific wording to it. If you claim to be taller/shorter than most of your race, then you deserve a Mary Sue point, as you are trying to make yourself 'unique' by saying you are not like most of your race. If you say you are short/tall for one of your race, that is different, and you do not get a point. You are then just descibing your height, but not making it a unique feature, as there could be many people your same height who are also short/tall for that race.
The guild question was only aimed at those who create the guilds, but perhaps the name questions could be left off, and applied to a "Are you in a Mary Sue guild?" list.
As for the questions, those are the typical reasons folks try to use to create a 'unique' guild, but in fact, they are not unique at all, and quite cliche.
-
The wording may be a little too subtle for some people (like me) to pick up on. When I read those two sentences I pretty much see them as asking the exact same question. Maybe something along the lines of "are you a giant among your race, are you unusually small for your race, are you hideously ugly for you race, etc." would be a little easier for some of us less attuned test takers. :P
-
It would seem to me that given a bell curve distribution for racial traits nearly half the people will be taller than most of their race and a similar amount will be shorter than most. All that claim really says is which half of the curve you are in. I am not certain even claiming to be in the top/bottom 5% is particularly noteworthy as player characters are supposed to be the exception to the unimplemented masses that we never see. Even Hydlaa as large as it seems would only be a small hamlet if all that there is to be seen is all that there was to it. I figure there is at least 100 people to every one we can see and at least ten times the number of buildings in the city proper. It just isn't possible to put the theoretical populous in the game. so the npcs we see are also the exceptional ones.
-
Indeed. so it would be, "Is your character unusually tall/short/pretty/etc. for his/her race?" And we already have already have a question like that. So instead maybe the question should sum it all up then, "Does your character posses an unusual physical trait that distinguishes them uncharacteristically from their race? [taller/prettier/stronger/etc.]"
-
Is your idea of roleplaying hanging around a smelly smithy, as opposed to a huge plaza that nobody uses, or a tavern, or basically anywhere EXCEPT said smelly smithy?
It would seem to me that a smithy might smell like a barbecue to a Kran....
-
An old dwarf enters the plaza and shouts: "We all have our characteristics. Some are shorter while some are taller. Respect your self and others. You are all individuals!".
He makes a pretty stupid face as someone shouts back: "No, I am not!".
-----------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that this mary sue thing goes a bit to far. Of course its bad when there are too many mary sues. If every char is larger then the average of his race something is definitly wrong.
But if all characters are anti mary sue, how boring would that be? All are uniform. No one is taller or shorter, no one is beautiful and no one is ugly. No one had troubles during their child hood, no one had any kind of event during their live.
That would be even unrealistic.
Sure there are things one should avoid when creating a character like having to many positive aspects and no negative or beeing far to clyche. I think its the balance that matters. And that issue is far to complex then to be handeled in a simple charcter test. Alltough this test can give some insights and tips what not to do. Like avoiding beeing a king of a distant land or god modding.
But hammering down all characters according to a test will not work. Either people will ignore the test or in the long run all charcters will be optimized to that test leading to a new clyche. The anti mary sue.
Character creation is a complicated thing. That can't be fixed with a simple test.
-
Like UtM already said, the test works by adding up all the points you answer positive to. It should be made so that everyone will have a few points they have to cross off.Only when you cross off half of them or more for one character, then you're being a Mary-Sue.
I get the feeling that people are thinking they have to make a character that answers negative to every single question we're thinking up here :P Definitely not the case.
Nobody is trying to fix anything either, we're just trying to have people think first, create then. And if you want to make a Mary-Sue .. by all means go ahead!
-
Well put.
-
Do your characters die whenever they meet a certain character?
(That ones for Moon :P )
Do you think a guild is evil because it has "Dark" in it?