PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Duraza on December 04, 2007, 01:40:23 am
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take them into good guilds.
While looking through the thread thread started by Leama (New players and roleplay) I stumbled upon the quote above. I didn't want to disturb the thread with something that was a little off the desired topic so I decided to start a new one with a basic question. Has anyone besides me realized that there are various guilds in the game with players that you see do nothing but train and chat OOCly? I don't think here is the place to name any of those guilds(to refrain from insulting anyone when you may be wrong) but there are a few that come to mind. What annoys me most is that these are the guilds I always see new players joining, these are guilds which I have no idea about IC or OOC, and when I've attempted rping with members of guilds like this they rarely know what I'm talking about.
I know that you can't force rp on players that don't wish to rp but does anyone but me believe that these guilds could also be a cause of new players lack of intrest in rp? I'm not trying to say that all those guilds are wrong and that they shouldn't exist, etc, but I want to know others opinions on guilds that don't necessarily promote rp. Don't get me wrong, I've found people who do rp in plenty of guilds I no nothing about but at the same time I'm not entirely sure that I agree with guilds that are created for no reason I know except OOC chat.
Edit:
Like to revise my question. After giving it a little thought I think a better question would be for any guild, not just those guilds who may or may not be OOC. There are negative and postive ways guilds influence rp depending on the guild and depending on who's in it as well as its purpose. I want opinions on that as well if you'd be so kind :P
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What annoys me most is that these are the guilds I always see new players joining
lol I just have to second that here!
these guilds could also be a cause of new players lack of intrest in rp?
Interesting question you come up with!
Since a certain thread here in the forums I had a look at my very first logs, and saw that I tried to roleplay my char a bit (of course completely noobish, whatever). Needless to say Yliakum was a huge confusing world in the beginning, and even after having had a char in DL-guild I still wasnt focussing on RP completely, mostly because of there was so much to discover and explore. But that my first guild-membership showed me how exciting roleplay can be, and what potential it can provide!
Times passed, the Lords were discarded and I found myself levelling my char in the arena again.
One day I was grabbed by another guild, surely one that is not focussing on roleplay at all.
And this is the point where I tend to guilds indeed have a good impact on players and their focus and way to play to come. As a member of that guild for the first kinda forgot what I learned about rp and focussed on gathering that ooc-stuff/knowledge.
A few months later though I left for right that purpose: Getting back into roleplaying.
So no doubt, guilds have a major influence on the way players evolve! And yes, I may have a vague idea of what guilds you may talk, and it annoys me to see newbies joining them, as to me it feels like they get caught in some sort of machinery. Powerlevelling gets taught and is required to rank up, players either make chatroom-friends there and may stay for longer, or they get bored after few weeks of levelling and leave again.
Make setting up little rp-events, guild-specific ones, every 4 weeks, a requirement for every guild to stay alive! (Yes, a completely unrealistic, but may provoking approach;))
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Duraza,
I admire you to try to keep my thread on topic. I cannot help but wonder if you are saying that if a guild does not role play then the player is more likely to get bored and leave if they just level up? I hope that question does not take your thread off topic.
Thank you,
Leama.
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Wow are you serious, one little thing and everyone panics about getting off topic...it's called branching out and expanding the topic, not going off it. :/
Anyway, I admit this is a pretty original thread. I know that when I first started playing, I was thrown into an OOC guild, and knew nothing of roleplay. When I talked to people I had no idea what they were saying and no one tried to explain it to me, just said I was being annoying and a lot of GM's and wannabe GM's tried to ban me. :/
Took a while to learn, and I think that the cause really is OOC guilds. The tutorial wasn't around back then, and dueling in Hydlaa was popular (I wish I could go back to that if anything :P), so it was just misleading how to really play the game.
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1) change the code to reflect that all guilds aren't automatically created. and instead, a guild founder must get a charter and have the min. required for a guild to sign it. they then submit this charter and their guild creation status becomes pending.
2) allow a certain body to be responsible for approving guilds.
3) have this governing body allow the guild petition to go through as long as it meets certain criteria.
4) easiest criteria is that before a guild can be allowed to happen, the would-be leader must be a member of the forums, and must have submitted a promotional guild thread in the guild forum section about the guild they are forming. that thread must meet all rules listed in the guilds section and must be within the settings of the game (for example: no werewolves guilds allowed)
this allows only guilds to be formed that are of the rping nature. as if they are not, they never get formed. then only rping guilds can recruit new players, so new players are only introduced to rping guilds.
problem solved no? :)
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No, it isn't. Do we really want the pending process to be using OOC requirements? Seems like it's sort of contradictory to the purpose of creating fully-RP guilds when we're using OOC requirements like that. Of course, they're not bad requirements and make sense, but can there be a more realistic way of doing things that follows the same...can't figure out the wording, but, something similar to the OOC requirements listed?
I think that the charter could be like the forum guild post, it explains everything in the guild and at the bottom is a signature section. We turn in that charter, and also (to match the forum requirement thing) must (this might sound a little dumb) have posted in some sort of...public announcement board or something. I have no idea how that would work, but I don't think that having a forum account would be a...realistic requirement.
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1) change the code to reflect that all guilds aren't automatically created. and instead, a guild founder must get a charter and have the min. required for a guild to sign it. they then submit this charter and their guild creation status becomes pending.
2) allow a certain body to be responsible for approving guilds.
3) have this governing body allow the guild petition to go through as long as it meets certain criteria.
4) easiest criteria is that before a guild can be allowed to happen, the would-be leader must be a member of the forums, and must have submitted a promotional guild thread in the guild forum section about the guild they are forming. that thread must meet all rules listed in the guilds section and must be within the settings of the game (for example: no werewolves guilds allowed)
this allows only guilds to be formed that are of the rping nature. as if they are not, they never get formed. then only rping guilds can recruit new players, so new players are only introduced to rping guilds.
I agree with this completely it sounds like a good, fair way to ensure that guilds will be more RP focused. I think staying IC with the literal creation of guilds is unnecessary, because it would be just as easy to RP the creation of the guild IG after you get it approved. This would definitely aid RP as a whole in the game, because the individual players would be forced to evaluate their characters to see if they are compatible with the guild's storyline.
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:thumbup: I also agree with neko, this would be just and fair. Makes sense to me.
2) allow a certain body to be responsible for approving guilds.
I already have someone in mind that I would like to vote for to be the certain body. Sangwa. \\o//
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this allows only guilds to be formed that are of the rping nature. as if they are not, they never get formed. then only rping guilds can recruit new players, so new players are only introduced to rping guilds.
problem solved no? :)
This is hard for me to phrase properly. I can see it being misread already. I don't like the idea of forcing rping on everyone. Not everyone wants to, even after learning all about it, and these people are being pressured. It would be difficult to find justification for having many mercenary and warrior guilds. And I like seeing loads of different guilds. More variety, more ideas. I like having a majority of rping guilds, but rping guilds aren't always the best at training newbies the basics. For example:
Newbie: Hey! How do I train magic?
Someone deeply involved in a massive rp/smelting large quantities of ore: [Not right now! We're busy!]
This conversation pans out everyday, whether you see it or not. A couple of these leveling guilds are needed to teach basics, perhaps with some small, healthy doses of RP, and the option must always be there to join a more rp based guild.
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:thumbup: I also agree with neko, this would be just and fair. Makes sense to me.
2) allow a certain body to be responsible for approving guilds.
I already have someone in mind that I would like to vote for to be the certain body. Sangwa. \\o//
Except... Sangwa's a big softy... :P Besides being way busy already.
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Rename the current guild system and call it Groups instead. Make it free. Take away the visible label.
Create a new, layered Guild system for actual guilds of set kinds that requires more roleplaying in the creation, and less click and pay. These guilds would be monitored.
Give only those RP guilds 'outfits', 'badges' or 'colors' in the form of guild labels, which vanish the instant you take your 'colors' off.
New folks are drawn to guild labels. Only 'real' roleplaying guilds would stand out from others. Why would OOC guilds show up as looking different, when they are OOC?
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While collecting information for this survey (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30797.0), I noticed there was not a strong correlation between being in a guild and having an edited description (which can be an indicator of a player's interest in RP). The reason could very well be that not all guilds are created with RP as an objective. Many are formed as OOC groups of buddies who want to chat while they camp in different places. They use "help newcomers" as one of their objectives and they often deliver, again sharing all their OOC knowledge of the game. Those are the guilds you see getting new members every day, fresh out of the tutorial. They tap into the need of guidance and offer it the best way they can but neglecting RP as the area they simply never considered and which their new members may have been interested in.
On the other hand you got the RP guilds, those that require commitment and consistency. The ones that can't let just anyone in. They often struggle because their recruitment process is not as simple as the "OOC guilds", making them less attractive for the player that needs instant help and quick answers.
So it's the current guild system that allows either path and it makes you wonder what the best way to go is. Despite all the problems one may come across with it, I don't think changing it by bringing a Guild Police to smite OOC guilds would help. I think that one of the reasons this community is great is because PS welcomes all kinds of players as long as they respect the other players' right to enjoy the game the way they wish within its rules. If we start imposing a group's idea of what a guild should be then we'll compromise our very welcoming nature and that can be much worse than just a bunch of mass-recruiting guilds that come and go with every release.
I'm not saying there isn't a way around this. There is. It's in the individuals. I think that although guilds can contribute significantly to promoting RP, given that not all guilds are created with this purpose, we still depend on one-on-one interaction to be the most important influence in newcomers. A new player will seek help and it's up to the experienced ones to show them the way. True, not all will learn or want to listen but if we as individuals stop helping newcomers or brush them off quickly, then we can't really throw stones at those guilds that welcome them, even if all they have is OOC.
Does this mean everyone should become a newcomer information center? Of course not. But you could dedicate a part of your in-game time to help a player or two every week and eventually your influence will be fruitful. After all, no matter what new mechanics or new guild systems we develop they will always have OOC; and no matter how great a guild can be, the quality of its RP will only be as good as that of its active members. So it really comes down to the people.
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Mass recruiting is in my opinion the worst enemy of any roleplaying guild.
It's mass recruiting that has all newbies joining those non-RP guilds. Now I don't blame anyone, in this game you can learn two things when you're new. One, how to roleplay and build a roleplaying character and two how the game works and build a strong character. Most, if not all, new people start with the second thing. Now usually they don't have a very developed character yet and know little about roleplay, so they're not likely to be attracted to a roleplaying guild directly. They just want game information, where to get the good stuff and where to train. Where do they get this? Obviously from all those mass recruiting, easy access guilds. No roleplay involved but they do get a whole lot of game knowledge. They make friends in there and eventually they might start learning about roleplay, depending on whether people in the guild actually do it or not.
Suppose they do get a knick for roleplaying and develope a nice character, normally it wouldn't fit into that guild at all but their friends are all in it. So they have to choose between sticking with their friends and doing what their character wants. Almost everyone will stick with their friends, I did, still do to a degree. That means however that good roleplaying guilds are usually stuck with those exceptional characters that do enjoy roleplay when they start or alts of older players.
1) change the code to reflect that all guilds aren't automatically created. and instead, a guild founder must get a charter and have the min. required for a guild to sign it. they then submit this charter and their guild creation status becomes pending.
2) allow a certain body to be responsible for approving guilds.
3) have this governing body allow the guild petition to go through as long as it meets certain criteria.
4) easiest criteria is that before a guild can be allowed to happen, the would-be leader must be a member of the forums, and must have submitted a promotional guild thread in the guild forum section about the guild they are forming. that thread must meet all rules listed in the guilds section and must be within the settings of the game (for example: no werewolves guilds allowed)
this allows only guilds to be formed that are of the rping nature. as if they are not, they never get formed. then only rping guilds can recruit new players, so new players are only introduced to rping guilds.
problem solved no? :)
That'd be great! However the large majority of players won't like it, so I don't expect it to happen any time soon. This measure would mean a lot less guilded people because the roleplaying guilds usually have a standard of that character fitting the guild and the player willing to roleplay. Resulting you'd get a bunch of frustrated people because they can't start a guild and maybe can't even find one to join. It also means a lot of new players won't be able to get their much needed game knowledge from guilds anymore.
Maybe Moon's idea might fix some of these issues but then I'm wondering, will it really change much? I don't think it will ... unless a character can actually join an OOC group as well as an IC guild. Then groups can still be used to bond with friends and allow new players to learn about the game. While the guilds are for roleplay and should be picked according to how they suit your character.
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Actually, yes, Zan. In a system I have proposed, the buddy list would become home to these groups, and you could have as many as you wish. They would be helpful in RP as well. Perhaps the buddy window would even be have is own limited chat interface. (limited so that it is not used for main chat)
As for the 'layered' guild system used to promote RP, it should be more realistic, making new folks see the difference from other games right away. Different types of guilds could be created in a process similar to Character Creation. The types of 'guilds' would dictate what your guild can do, and who can join in what capacity.
The problem is that guilds don't really matter to the game as it is.(which will change in time) I would like something more like the following.
True Guilds (merchant and trade guilds) would be top of the food chain with the most power. They are the -only- group that would actually be called a guild, and would get a special 'badge' (label color). They would get better deals from the NPCs, and even have the ability to influence NPC prices for non-guild members. Joining such a guild could also get you access to restricted places such as the winch. These guilds would very -very- hard to start, and take a long time.. The roleplay value in them would be high. They are awarded guildhouses without the need to buy one.
Parties. This is for those political 'guilds' that want to change the government. They would be easy to start, but would require a lot of effort to actually give them any power at all. They would have some chance of influencing Law (for when a law system is put in place).
Organizations. This is a catchall for non-trade, non-party 'guilds'. Organizations can be granted 'power' by True guilds and Parties, or through GMs.
Houses. Just for Lady Purrdy. :) These groups are granted certain rights -after- they have established proper background and linage.
Groups. The buddy list groups. No label. No special powers or rights, and can not buy a guildhouse. If IC, these would be used like clubs.
The above system would create an enviroment in which new folks can join non-RP groups, but will be able to see the infuence of the other types of higher groups.
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I'm with Undy... as perverse as that sounds...
I doubt it'll be implemented, but his system appeals to the RPer within me...
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While I have previously suggested the elimination of all guilds and/or replacement of guilds by settings run in context guilds, there is one possibility this thread seems to be ignoring. The ardent role player could always infiltrate the OOC guild and recruit new role players from within. There would be very little trouble involved with setting up an alt to be a mole in such an organization, the trick would be to bleed off promising candidates without offending the guild leaders and getting kicked out.
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Ahh .. well I then like the sound of that, Moon. Definitely hope your suggestion makes it to the game some day.
I do hope that certain non-economical professions are also included under the trade guilds. Like soldiers, adventurers, mages, etc. And what about religious groupings? Preferably one's religion should also have an influence on how certain groups treat you, more than just giving you access to certain quests like it is now. I'd say a guild-like system for each religion would be positive. You automatically join it based on your character creation choice but you can leave and convert to a different religion. Of course being in a religion shouldn't exclude you from joining any other type of guild.
Which makes me think about something else, the possibility to join multiple guilds? It's not unrealistic to be a part of both a Merchant Guild and a Political Party, for example. Of course as long as the people in charge don't see any issues with it.
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Hurrm, I am wondering if this was made to address the UBER NOOB incident in the tavern the other day... \\o//
Don't have much to say, but players should not be able to automatically join a guild. Maybe after a few weeks of playing. There are too many ch00bs banding together and taking over Yliakum. This is how I see it happening:
1. A guild is created. Immersed in roleplay and such with very experienced players.
2. The guild strives to become better than others. It begins to gain enemies.
3. The guild starts recruiting more players to have the upperhand. Lets PLers, hack-and-slashers, and stubborn, inexperienced players join.
4. The uneducated newcomers begin to stack up, creating problems with other players/guilds usually by spamming. When their characters are in danger or annoyed by others trying to learn them roleplay, they OOCly call for help to older uneducated players, who immediately give aid by ignoring guards/telling the helpful players to *bleep* off/trying to kill everyone around them/etc.
5. You've got yourself a guild known as The n00bz of d00m.
December 04, 2007, 05:21:29 PM - Edit for privacy of guildnoobs. Must have skipped that part. ^.^'
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Actually, yes, Zan. In a system I have proposed, the buddy list would become home to these groups, and you could have as many as you wish. They would be helpful in RP as well. Perhaps the buddy window would even be have is own limited chat interface. (limited so that it is not used for main chat)
As for the 'layered' guild system used to promote RP, it should be more realistic, making new folks see the difference from other games right away. Different types of guilds could be created in a process similar to Character Creation. The types of 'guilds' would dictate what your guild can do, and who can join in what capacity.
The problem is that guilds don't really matter to the game as it is.(which will change in time) I would like something more like the following.
True Guilds (merchant and trade guilds) would be top of the food chain with the most power. They are the -only- group that would actually be called a guild, and would get a special 'badge' (label color). They would get better deals from the NPCs, and even have the ability to influence NPC prices for non-guild members. Joining such a guild could also get you access to restricted places such as the winch. These guilds would very -very- hard to start, and take a long time.. The roleplay value in them would be high. They are awarded guildhouses without the need to buy one.
Parties. This is for those political 'guilds' that want to change the government. They would be easy to start, but would require a lot of effort to actually give them any power at all. They would have some chance of influencing Law (for when a law system is put in place).
Organizations. This is a catchall for non-trade, non-party 'guilds'. Organizations can be granted 'power' by True guilds and Parties, or through GMs.
Houses. Just for Lady Purrdy. :) These groups are granted certain rights -after- they have established proper background and linage.
Groups. The buddy list groups. No label. No special powers or rights, and can not buy a guildhouse. If IC, these would be used like clubs.
The above system would create an enviroment in which new folks can join non-RP groups, but will be able to see the infuence of the other types of higher groups.
I must say thats an idea I really think would make the game much better. Not just because there are more specific things you can pick between but also because some mean more power than others. One thing I would definately say is that the higher the "guild" the more money it should cost to create it, possibly even the more members required to start. If this system was layed out then tons of levelers looking to make the game easier would simply create a merchant guild, put a few alts in it, and get access to the best places as well as get good deals. We don't want that because it would go agaisnt the purpose of creating the system so up the price for creating it and the amount of initial members.
While I have previously suggested the elimination of all guilds and/or replacement of guilds by settings run in context guilds, there is one possibility this thread seems to be ignoring. The ardent role player could always infiltrate the OOC guild and recruit new role players from within. There would be very little trouble involved with setting up an alt to be a mole in such an organization, the trick would be to bleed off promising candidates without offending the guild leaders and getting kicked out.
That sounds so cruel, I would never even dream of it, not unless I was doing it to an rping guild, then I wouldn't mind the slightest bit :P You could do that but you can do so with your guilded character as well. You just may get the point across better when your in the same guild as another.
Hurrm, I am wondering if this was made to address the Nomothetes incident in the tavern the other day... \\o//
No, this thread was made before that and as I mentioned don't name other guilds you feel this may apply to. This threads purpose is not to offend anyone.
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First of the main question is interesting but it did make me smile with me wondering if it's really a question if not more an observation. Obviously guilds have a huge impact on people. It's the people you always talk with when ingame so if everyone of them roleplays or if none of them roleplay will make you look at the game a lot different.
Personally I would really love some preselection like suggested although I feel the Under the Moon suggestion is perhaps a tad limiting. I mean one of the things I do like at the moment of the guild system is that it doesn't force people to make one of those standard guilds but you can be creative. The problem I have with it is that it's not encouraged to do that by the game itself. That is why I wouldn't mind making the creation of a guild a Big Deal and making it like a petition. Aslong as we keep the critism creative and constructive it would really improve guilds and people who don't want to roleplay can simply stay out of guilds becuase the one limitation I do put on guilds is that it shouldn't simply be an OOC chatbox. That is what MSN and teamspeak are for.
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I think that we should have a more attentive authority looking over the game to be certain that people are doing things right. Mechanics can not detect role play, people can.
EDIT: Removed the first sentence.
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First of the main question is interesting but it did make me smile with me wondering if it's really a question if not more an observation. Obviously guilds have a huge impact on people. It's the people you always talk with when ingame so if everyone of them roleplays or if none of them roleplay will make you look at the game a lot different.
Personally I would really love some preselection like suggested although I feel the Under the Moon suggestion is perhaps a tad limiting. I mean one of the things I do like at the moment of the guild system is that it doesn't force people to make one of those standard guilds but you can be creative. The problem I have with it is that it's not encouraged to do that by the game itself. That is why I wouldn't mind making the creation of a guild a Big Deal and making it like a petition. Aslong as we keep the critism creative and constructive it would really improve guilds and people who don't want to roleplay can simply stay out of guilds becuase the one limitation I do put on guilds is that it shouldn't simply be an OOC chatbox. That is what MSN and teamspeak are for.
the problem is..what if you dont have msn, aim, teamspeak, or something like that?
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Then use tells, or the forums, or irc, or... gasp... get a messenger. MSN messenger is free and if you have the internet to use PS then you have the internet to use MSN... The point she's making is that PS was not made to be a giant chatroom... It was made to be an mmorpg. Sure, a little OOC-ness in the guild chat is acceptable, but it's not a friends list in a chatroom.
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If you don't like ooc talk in guild, build a guild where ooc is forbidden and let the others live how they want.
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If you don't like the goals this game has in mind, build a game where you do what you want and let others play this game how it should be. :P
By the way, OOC in private tabs is alright. It's OOC chat in public that bothers some people.
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How did I start?
...
I came without any clue about MMORPGs. My only RPGs I played so far were the "Gothic" series (single player, rather fixed story with some temporary degrees of freedom).
During my first year, I got taught and sponsored by Janners Way. I'd never complain about those days, even though they were not very roleplaying oriented. But I had my freedom, and I met a lot and very different players and characters...
Over the weeks and months, again and again I stumbled into roleplays. GM events, little plots with some famous chars, and finally, a taste of the deep story of the Purrties. This was an awakening! Finally I found the kernel of this game.
Later, the "Royal House of Purrty" was founded as strictly roleplaying-oriented guild. Before, there was the splitting and "death" of Janner, founding of Ruby Reign and the Sworn Council of Yliakum.
I guess you can call me lucky that I had the chance to grow into this game.
Other players have the same chance today. Some of them have experience from a different MMORPG, and may expect the wrong goals, being biased on their previous experiences. Some have no experience at all, and don't understand the whole concept in the beginning.
So what?
If a player is open to new experiences, he may need more or less time, but will eventually understand. If he is not ... shall we force him, shall we discourage "wrong habits"? Will we tolerate or ignore those who do not -- yet? -- understand the meaning?
I'd like to believe that most of those who seem not to care today, will be able to learn while they play more and more. It took around 2 years for me to find the key. Well, true, parental education may have counted as a big factor here. You may find "gangs" in your game just like in your real life. That's the variety in all our lives.
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If you don't like the goals this game has in mind, build a game where you do what you want and let others play this game how it should be. :P
By the way, OOC in private tabs is alright. It's OOC chat in public that bothers some people.
If you don't like the goals....i assume that means RP-heavy huh? Personally, I think that we have forgotten the medieval intention of a guild and in order to properly RP it, you need to have a crash course in what they are.
Guilds, let's see what wikipedia has to say about them.
A guild is an association of craftspeople in a particular trade.Local guilds also served to safeguard artisans from the appropriation of their skills: A culture of instructional capital flourished, with groups of respected artisans spreading their work to other artisans elsewhere, who could in turn copy it and perhaps "pass it off" as the original, thereby exploiting the social capital built up at great expense by the originators of techniques. Artisans began to take various measures to protect their proprietary interests, and restrict access to techniques, materials, and markets.
The guilds were identified with organizations enjoying certain privileges (letters patent), usually issued by the king or state and overseen by local town business authorities (some kind of chamber of commerce). These were the predecessors of the modern patent and trademark system. The guilds also maintained funds in order to support infirm or elderly members, as well as widows and orphans of guild members, funeral benefits, and a 'tramping' allowance for those needing to travel to find work.
Curious....how does that fit into PS?
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Hello? Did you read this conversation?
They just got finished pointing out that the guild system should change to allow general organizations and then let guilds be actual guilds.
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If you don't like the goals....i assume that means RP-heavy huh? Personally, I think that we have forgotten the medieval intention of a guild and in order to properly RP it, you need to have a crash course in what they are.
That meant not using the game as a random chatroom and not disrupting the atmosphere of those who do want to roleplay by OOC talks in main chat. If you think that's heavy well that's your right, of course.
As for the guild thing, maybe you would have noticed that there are people who agree with what you said .. including me .. if you had read the rest of the thread instead of just my last, touchy remark. :P
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Hello? Did you read this conversation?
They just got finished pointing out that the guild system should change to allow general organizations and then let guilds be actual guilds.
Oh i do read the conversation...but perhaps I shouldn't have commented. Forgive my intrusion.
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Hello? Did you read this conversation?
They just got finished pointing out that the guild system should change to allow general organizations and then let guilds be actual guilds.
Oh i do read the conversation...but perhaps I shouldn't have commented. Forgive my intrusion.
If you don't like the goals....i assume that means RP-heavy huh? Personally, I think that we have forgotten the medieval intention of a guild and in order to properly RP it, you need to have a crash course in what they are.
That meant not using the game as a random chatroom and not disrupting the atmosphere of those who do want to roleplay by OOC talks in main chat. If you think that's heavy well that's your right, of course.
As for the guild thing, maybe you would have noticed that there are people who agree with what you said .. including me .. if you had read the rest of the thread instead of just my last, touchy remark. :P
Yeah... pretty much.
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Nothing wrong with commenting at all, it just came over like you were basing your comment on a single post, not the rest of the thread .. now let's all shake hands and get back on topic here. :P
It would definitely be very nice if Guilds actually became what they used to be in medieval times. Exclusive, powerful and specifically oriented.
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Nothing wrong with commenting at all, it just came over like you were basing your comment on a single post, not the rest of the thread .. now let's all shake hands and get back on topic here. :P
It would definitely be very nice if Guilds actually became what they used to be in medieval times. Exclusive, powerful and specifically oriented.
I'm not shaking hands with anyone...
But I agree, guilds should be guilds... but there should still be room for organizations.
I think they should implement my original ideas for Vaalnor. Basically the idea that while guilds aren't limited to merchant guilds only or some such rot, but there are specific, official, government-acknowledged guilds that have a corner on their specific areas, whether that be fighting/mercenary, merchant, magic, or whatever. Then there can be other organizations with specific goals and what-not, but not the same as an official guild.
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Hmm, perhaps the Devs could mix the current faction system with a new guild system? I get the idea that the factions are going to become what some of us would like to see with the Guilds. By the way I definitely agree that there should be room for other organisations. So far I still like UtM's idea the most.
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Now that they have guild houses, although not enough for all, they should definitely consider removing the guild chat tab as presumably if you want to chat with your guild mates you can hang out at the guild house. This wireless text messaging across the realm is rather unrealistic. I expect this would not be popular.
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There needs to be a way to make up for that time that is spent off line and the faster passing of time in game though.
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3) have this governing body allow the guild petition to go through as long as it meets certain criteria.
*Listbard locks his door from the nicely dressed people with their literature of light.*
ahem I agree with neko, despite his.... Unknown pun that I have to point out.
You know if guilds were harder to make, and REQUIRED to provide a small entry for a game master to look over, and approve. (IE: proof that this guild fits into game settings, and is proper RP) Not only would we have fewer guilds (which imo, is a good thing, really we have a lot of guilds that are pretty much the same) but also those guilds would be easier to monitor.
After all its easier to keep track of a few guilds, then a lot. I do admit the situation has gotten better, I remember when it seemed everyone had their own little guild running around. But the main issue now is I see, that like xillix has mentioned time and time again, guilds often fall out of game settings, and their names leave you asking "wtf does that mean?"
I think many issues would be cleaned up if we:
1. Force EVERY character to take the tutorial at least once, there are many players who had characters before the tutorial was created, and such players need reeducating!
2. Make it harder to found a guild. Increase characters required, make it more expensive, insert taxes onto these guilds to make sure they stay active! (or if they don't, that they get disbanded.
3. Game masters should monitor guilds to make sure they are staying within character and game settings. I could name many guilds that are active, and all that lot, but they are known for members that speak oocly, and seem to have never heard about planeshift's game settings. This kind goes along with point 1....
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Really though, getting true merchant and supplier guilds (at least to me) look a little tough. Basic supplier groups are the most difficult. People'd rather kill things or be a blacksmith than a miner or metallurgist.
I've been throwing ideas around for a miners/metallurgists (maybe even blacksmiths in there too) guild in order to deal with the economics of metals and such. I like steadiness, and the giant fluctuations of prices bother me. That's moot and for another thread.
There are a few people who think I've got the idea, but more than not, people just argue with me that trying to influence metal markets is a dumb idea, or that it can't be done, etc., so I haven't done it yet. Maybe I'll try it.
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It would definitely be very nice if Guilds actually became what they used to be in medieval times. Exclusive, powerful and specifically oriented.
I like the idea of that. There should be some kind of hierarchy when it comes to guilds like in ideas mentioned before. Right now our guilds really have little influence on the world around us as well as our characters. Sure there are things we do influence and historys that happen because of our existence but at the same time we are not nearly as influential to the game as the NCPs and characters used in gm events. If thats what the game is aiming at then they are doing well.
My own opinion though is that while you may not be able to influence the world much as an individual there should be strong guilds that do. Being a strong guild shouldn't all just be about numbers either. It should be about the strength and influence of the individual, of the people in ones alliances, and the influence on has on the NCP's of the world (factions). Whether you be a guild, house, cult, or any other IC group it should be a combination of those things that make guilds strong and influential in the world of ps.