Guilds and Roleplay

[bilbous]

While I have previously suggested the elimination of all guilds and/or  replacement of guilds by settings run in context guilds, there is one possibility this thread seems to be ignoring. The ardent role player could always infiltrate the OOC guild and recruit new role players from within. There would be very little trouble involved with setting up an alt to be a mole in such an organization, the trick would be to bleed off promising candidates without offending the guild leaders and getting kicked out.

[Zan]

Ahh .. well I then like the sound of that, Moon. Definitely hope your suggestion makes it to the game some day.

I do hope that certain non-economical professions are also included under the trade guilds. Like soldiers, adventurers, mages, etc. And what about religious groupings? Preferably one's religion should also have an influence on how certain groups treat you, more than just giving you access to certain quests like it is now. I'd say a guild-like system for each religion would be positive. You automatically join it based on your character creation choice but you can leave and convert to a different religion. Of course being in a religion shouldn't exclude you from joining any other type of guild.

Which makes me think about something else, the possibility to join multiple guilds? It's not unrealistic to be a part of both a Merchant Guild and a Political Party, for example. Of course as long as the people in charge don't see any issues with it.

[Raa]

Hurrm, I am wondering if this was made to address the UBER NOOB incident in the tavern the other day... 

Don't have much to say, but players should not be able to automatically join a guild. Maybe after a few weeks of playing. There are too many ch00bs banding together and taking over Yliakum. This is how I see it happening:

1. A guild is created. Immersed in roleplay and such with very experienced players.

2. The guild strives to become better than others. It begins to gain enemies.

3. The guild starts recruiting more players to have the upperhand. Lets PLers, hack-and-slashers, and stubborn, inexperienced players join.

4. The uneducated newcomers begin to stack up, creating problems with other players/guilds usually by spamming. When their characters are in danger or annoyed by others trying to learn them roleplay, they OOCly call for help to older uneducated players, who immediately give aid by ignoring guards/telling the helpful players to *bleep* off/trying to kill everyone around them/etc.

5. You've got yourself a guild known as The n00bz of d00m.




December 04, 2007, 05:21:29 PM - Edit for privacy of guildnoobs. Must have skipped that part. ^.^'

[Duraza]

Actually, yes, Zan. In a system I have proposed, the buddy list would become home to these groups, and you could have as many as you wish. They would be helpful in RP as well. Perhaps the buddy window would even be have is own limited chat interface. (limited so that it is not used for main chat)

As for the 'layered' guild system used to promote RP, it should be more realistic, making new folks see the difference from other games right away. Different types of guilds could be created in a process similar to Character Creation. The types of 'guilds' would dictate what your guild can do, and who can join in what capacity.

The problem is that guilds don't really matter to the game as it is.(which will change in time) I would like something more like the following.

True Guilds (merchant and trade guilds) would be top of the food chain with the most power. They are the -only- group that would actually be called a guild, and would get a special 'badge' (label color). They would get better deals from the NPCs, and even have the ability to influence NPC prices for non-guild members. Joining such a guild could also get you access to restricted places such as the winch. These guilds would very -very- hard to start, and take a long time.. The roleplay value in them would be high. They are awarded guildhouses without the need to buy one.

Parties. This is for those political 'guilds' that want to change the government. They would be easy to start, but would require a lot of effort to actually give them any power at all. They would have some chance of influencing Law (for when a law system is put in place).

Organizations. This is a catchall for non-trade, non-party 'guilds'. Organizations can be granted 'power' by True guilds and Parties, or through GMs.

Houses. Just for Lady Purrdy. These groups are granted certain rights -after- they have established proper background and linage.

Groups. The buddy list groups. No label. No special powers or rights, and can not buy a guildhouse. If IC, these would be used like clubs.

The above system would create an enviroment in which new folks can join non-RP groups, but will be able to see the infuence of the other types of higher groups.

I must say thats an idea I really think would make the game much better. Not just because there are more specific things you can pick between but also because some mean more power than others. One thing I would definately say is that the higher the "guild" the more money it should cost to create it, possibly even the more members required to start. If this system was layed out then tons of levelers looking to make the game easier would simply create a merchant guild, put a few alts in it, and get access to the best places as well as get good deals. We don't want that because it would go agaisnt the purpose of creating the system so up the price for creating it and the amount of initial members.

While I have previously suggested the elimination of all guilds and/or  replacement of guilds by settings run in context guilds, there is one possibility this thread seems to be ignoring. The ardent role player could always infiltrate the OOC guild and recruit new role players from within. There would be very little trouble involved with setting up an alt to be a mole in such an organization, the trick would be to bleed off promising candidates without offending the guild leaders and getting kicked out.

That sounds so cruel, I would never even dream of it, not unless I was doing it to an rping guild, then I wouldn't mind the slightest bit  You could do that but you can do so with your guilded character as well. You just may get the point across better when your in the same guild as another.

Hurrm, I am wondering if this was made to address the Nomothetes incident in the tavern the other day... 

No, this thread was made before that and as I mentioned don't name other guilds you feel this may apply to. This threads purpose is not to offend anyone.

[Garile]

First of the main question is interesting but it did make me smile with me wondering if it's really a question if not more an observation. Obviously guilds have a huge impact on people. It's the people you always talk with when ingame so if everyone of them roleplays or if none of them roleplay will make you look at the game a lot different.

Personally I would really love some preselection like suggested although I feel the Under the Moon suggestion is perhaps a tad limiting. I mean one of the things I do like at the moment of the guild system is that it doesn't force people to make one of those standard guilds but you can be creative. The problem I have with it is that it's not encouraged to do that by the game itself. That is why I wouldn't mind making the creation of a guild a Big Deal and making it like a petition. Aslong as we keep the critism creative and constructive it would really improve guilds and people who don't want to roleplay can simply stay out of guilds becuase the one limitation I do put on guilds is that it shouldn't simply be an OOC chatbox. That is what MSN and teamspeak are for.

[Sangwa]

I think that we should have a more attentive authority looking over the game to be certain that people are doing things right. Mechanics can not detect role play, people can.

EDIT: Removed the first sentence.

[theirah]

First of the main question is interesting but it did make me smile with me wondering if it's really a question if not more an observation. Obviously guilds have a huge impact on people. It's the people you always talk with when ingame so if everyone of them roleplays or if none of them roleplay will make you look at the game a lot different.

Personally I would really love some preselection like suggested although I feel the Under the Moon suggestion is perhaps a tad limiting. I mean one of the things I do like at the moment of the guild system is that it doesn't force people to make one of those standard guilds but you can be creative. The problem I have with it is that it's not encouraged to do that by the game itself. That is why I wouldn't mind making the creation of a guild a Big Deal and making it like a petition. Aslong as we keep the critism creative and constructive it would really improve guilds and people who don't want to roleplay can simply stay out of guilds becuase the one limitation I do put on guilds is that it shouldn't simply be an OOC chatbox. That is what MSN and teamspeak are for.

the problem is..what if you dont have msn, aim, teamspeak, or something like that?

[Phinehas]

Then use tells, or the forums, or irc, or... gasp... get a messenger. MSN messenger is free and if you have the internet to use PS then you have the internet to use MSN... The point she's making is that PS was not made to be a giant chatroom... It was made to be an mmorpg. Sure, a little OOC-ness in the guild chat is acceptable, but it's not a friends list in a chatroom.

[Martine]

If you don't like ooc talk in guild, build a guild where ooc is forbidden and let the others live how they want.

[Zan]

If you don't like the goals this game has in mind, build a game where you do what you want and let others play this game how it should be.

By the way, OOC in private tabs is alright. It's OOC chat in public that bothers some people.

[LigH]

How did I start?

...

I came without any clue about MMORPGs. My only RPGs I played so far were the "Gothic" series (single player, rather fixed story with some temporary degrees of freedom).

During my first year, I got taught and sponsored by Janners Way. I'd never complain about those days, even though they were not very roleplaying oriented. But I had my freedom, and I met a lot and very different players and characters...

Over the weeks and months, again and again I stumbled into roleplays. GM events, little plots with some famous chars, and finally, a taste of the deep story of the Purrties. This was an awakening! Finally I found the kernel of this game.

Later, the "Royal House of Purrty" was founded as strictly roleplaying-oriented guild. Before, there was the splitting and "death" of Janner, founding of Ruby Reign and the Sworn Council of Yliakum.

I guess you can call me lucky that I had the chance to grow into this game.

Other players have the same chance today. Some of them have experience from a different MMORPG, and may expect the wrong goals, being biased on their previous experiences. Some have no experience at all, and don't understand the whole concept in the beginning.

So what?

If a player is open to new experiences, he may need more or less time, but will eventually understand. If he is not ... shall we force him, shall we discourage "wrong habits"? Will we tolerate or ignore those who do not -- yet? -- understand the meaning?

I'd like to believe that most of those who seem not to care today, will be able to learn while they play more and more. It took around 2 years for me to find the key. Well, true, parental education may have counted as a big factor here. You may find "gangs" in your game just like in your real life. That's the variety in all our lives.

[Liadan]

If you don't like the goals this game has in mind, build a game where you do what you want and let others play this game how it should be.

By the way, OOC in private tabs is alright. It's OOC chat in public that bothers some people.

If you don't like the goals....i assume that means RP-heavy huh? Personally, I think that we have forgotten the medieval intention of a guild and in order to properly RP it, you need to have a crash course in what they are.

Guilds, let's see what wikipedia has to say about them.

A guild is an association of craftspeople in a particular trade.Local guilds also served to safeguard artisans from the appropriation of their skills:  A culture of instructional capital flourished, with groups of respected artisans spreading their work to other artisans elsewhere, who could in turn copy it and perhaps "pass it off" as the original, thereby exploiting the social capital built up at great expense by the originators of techniques. Artisans began to take various measures to protect their proprietary interests, and restrict access to techniques, materials, and markets.

The guilds were identified with organizations enjoying certain privileges (letters patent), usually issued by the king or state and overseen by local town business authorities (some kind of chamber of commerce). These were the predecessors of the modern patent and trademark system. The guilds also maintained funds in order to support infirm or elderly members, as well as widows and orphans of guild members, funeral benefits, and a 'tramping' allowance for those needing to travel to find work.

Curious....how does that fit into PS?

[Phinehas]

Hello? Did you read this conversation?

They just got finished pointing out that the guild system should change to allow general organizations and then let guilds be actual guilds.

[Zan]

If you don't like the goals....i assume that means RP-heavy huh? Personally, I think that we have forgotten the medieval intention of a guild and in order to properly RP it, you need to have a crash course in what they are.

That meant not using the game as a random chatroom and not disrupting the atmosphere of those who do want to roleplay by OOC talks in main chat. If you think that's heavy well that's your right, of course.

As for the guild thing, maybe you would have noticed that there are people who agree with what you said .. including me .. if you had read the rest of the thread instead of just my last, touchy remark.

[Liadan]

Hello? Did you read this conversation?

They just got finished pointing out that the guild system should change to allow general organizations and then let guilds be actual guilds.

Oh i do read the conversation...but perhaps I shouldn't have commented. Forgive my intrusion.