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Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Donari Tyndale on January 21, 2008, 06:43:32 pm

Title: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 21, 2008, 06:43:32 pm
The Hydlaa Arena

Introductory note:
I am aware of the useless discussion this will generate, whether this guild is to be considered godmodding or not. Thus, I ask you to accept the fact that the guild is now there or to ignore it, no need to keep bringing up the old argument. Feel free to ignore the guild, but if you do so you'll be excluded from the events the guild does. Furthermore, this guild will be entirely self sufficient, and all the money it earns will go to staff, gladiators or will be used for prizes.


1. Goals:

1.1 OOC Goals:
First of all, I'd like to make people think about the Arena as an actual place of meeting, not just some place to kill mobs and loot stuff. Next, I'd like to provide another area of roleplay, as I noticed a lack of it recently, especially in the training aspect. I hope that this guild will help those that were too much involved with the game mechanics to learn to enjoy roleplay. Not only to those the guild will be an addition for the game, but also for those that prefer to roleplay, as the guild will open new possibilities for roleplay.

1.1 IC Goals:
The Hydlaa Arena guild focusses on the maintenance of the Arena and it's handling. Furthermore, it organizes several events that see to the entertainment of the Arena's visitors and those that challenge the gladiators.


2. Measures to reach the IC goals

2.1 Fees
The Arena entrance will require a "Donation to the improvement of the social and martial functions of the Arena" of 20 tria, called "entrance fee", except of those that can prove they are doing business with the Arena staff. Multiple entry passes may be purchased. During events, except the Beast Hunt, the participants pay 30 tria registration fee, being excluded from the entrance fee. Spectators pay the usual entrance fee. Other fees may or may not be added later.
Naturally, roleplayed money will be accepted.

2.2 Events
2.2.1 Beast Hunt:
The participants track and hunt down specific beasts in the wilderness along with the Arena staff. A few beasts will be captured to be used in the Arena, some will be killed and  dissected for their tradeable parts. Each participant, except the staff, receives a compensation for participating, which is usually money.
2.2.2 Last Man Standing:
The participants engage against each other in open combat in a specified area. The last participant able to fight wins.
2.2.3 Stealth Kill:
The participants spread out in the Arena and render each other unable to fight in a hide and seek manner. The last participant able to fight wins. Magic is forbidden.
[Tournaments will be held as soon as the guild is set up]

2.3 Gladiators and ranking system:
The Hydlaa Arena hires skilled fighters and trains them in combat. These skilled fighters are ranked according to their strength. Any challenger can challenge a gladiator in a specific discipline, providing the staff deems the challenger equal or weaker then the gladiator.
Frequent participants in events and tournaments will be awarded titles according to their achievements in various disciplines.
[A list of disciplines and titles will follow soon]

2.3 Rules of conduct:
Every SENTIENT being in the Arena is not considered killed, even when fighting NPCs. They are wounded. Kills are done by stating that the opponent is killed, but will be severely punished.

3. Jobs/Quests and staff members

Note: I hate the ranking system with 9 specified ranks, so the guild will likely not use it.

3.1 Staff members:
The staff of the Arena includes Gregori Stevald, taskmaster and official head of the Arena. However, since he is a NPC, the assistant taskmaster will "receive" and execute orders from him. Furthermore, the Arena needs several animal trainers that see to the wellbeing and supply of animals. Various clerks are required to keep the finances in order and to handle the assignment of fighters, to charge the fees and to enlist participants for events.
Staff members will receive free training, equipment and free repair ICly (As far as the income allows it).

3.2 Jobs&Quests:
The Hydlaa Arena offers several jobs and quests to non staff members, like provision of food and drink to spectators, the repair of damaged equipment or the crafting of latter. Furthermore, various small quests that can be assigned by staff members will be included.


4. Conclusion:
I do really hope that this guild works out, as it'll surely make the game even better. Enjoy interacting with it!

Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Eliseth on January 21, 2008, 06:45:50 pm
An excellent idea D, I'll be supporting you for sure. Finally the Arena will be a place for RP!  \\o//
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Kaerli on January 21, 2008, 06:53:52 pm
Good thinking!  Finally, we can have somebody who can schedule events in the Kill Hall without stepping on other people's toes!  (BTW to Devs: can't there be at least 1 empty pit in the arena for events to be held in?  It doesn't even have to be a PvP area, just devoid of beasts and gladiators.)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 08:38:28 pm
Hmm... I don't know...

Don't get me wrong, it's an admirable idea... but I don't see it actually working out. Anyway, rather than be negative(as much fun as that is), I have some questions to ask...

What are you going to do about the people who refuse to pay the fees? Just ignore them?
Do you plan on interweaving your guild's "staff" with the NPCs already at the arena?(Don't remember the names, the but the shopkeepers and what-not)
How are you going to enforce your codes of behavior on the people who don't acknowledge your guild? I'm referring to "Those that do not accept the existance of this guild do not have any right to claim a NPC in face of the fighters in front of the Arena staff."
Doesn't the idea of having to go through an application process for every single little bit of combat you want to partake in seem a tad cumbersome?

Anyway, I have more questions, but if you can answer those adequately and not just with Talad's trademark, "I don't see a problem," then you'll be on your way to convincing me that you might actually have something here.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 21, 2008, 08:47:27 pm
What are you going to do about the people who refuse to pay the fees? Just ignore them?
Do you plan on interweaving your guild's "staff" with the NPCs already at the arena?(Don't remember the names, the but the shopkeepers and what-not)
How are you going to enforce your codes of behavior on the people who don't acknowledge your guild? I'm referring to "Those that do not accept the existance of this guild do not have any right to claim a NPC in face of the fighters in front of the Arena staff."
Doesn't the idea of having to go through an application process for every single little bit of combat you want to partake in seem a tad cumbersome?
Yes, I am. They can do whatever they want.
Yes, I do. Gregori is the head of the Arena.
That's in the sense of "If someone that accepts the guild fights against a gladiator and someone else that accepts the guild wants to fight the same one, it'll be handled by the Arena staff. If someone that does not accept the guild fights an NPC, those involved need to handle it by themselves. The accepting of the guild will bear many advantages to those that do, so I hope only few will ignore it."
It'll be only be slightly difficult to those that assign the NPCs, but we're willing to do some work for it. Maybe we'll find a system to make it easy for us as well.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Under the moon on January 21, 2008, 09:45:18 pm
I don't see much diference between this and someone roleplaying a bartender in the tavern. It works by acceptance. If people accept that you are the barkeep, they will give you money, often without actually getting any 'real' item (though I did sell mugs for those who did not have any). Sometimes the exchange of money is just as fake as the drinks handed out.

I see this as working the same. Myself, I would give the actual tria for the effort the guild is putting into this. But I would also say it would be fine to /me hands so-and-so the money. If you are just there to train and not take part in any guild activities. This would encourage more folks to start accepting the guild. It might be a big turn off for folks who might say it is godmoding to say you 'run' the Arena and ask for 'real' money, or be ignored.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 21, 2008, 09:49:28 pm
Oh forgot this was not clear enough  :whistling:. Of course we accept roleplayed money. It's still money in the eyes of the characters. But 20 tria aren't much, neither the 50 additional ones for fighting. It gives the guild some backup for tournament prizes.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 10:00:24 pm
Ok, that's a significant point... glad you cleared that up.

Well, I'll be honest, I still have my doubts about how this will turn out... just because of the logistics.

However it's definitely a good cause and an admirable idea, so more power to you.

Don't suppose you'd be having any events that were more... magic oriented?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 21, 2008, 10:07:51 pm
Of course, Phinehas. We'll have something magic related, maybe even non combat magic. Once I got the guild set up, I'll move on to the events and quests.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 10:21:10 pm
Alright. The Arcane Brotherhood might be interested in sponsoring magic-oriented events, if that sort of thing is something you people do...
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Eolas on January 21, 2008, 10:46:26 pm
The Imperial Scholars will do the same thing, only double of what The Arcane Brotherhood offers.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 10:56:43 pm
Well, I suppose your choice is then, go with the people who can offer you more money because they're weak and rely upon the support of their over-lord the Empire, or go with a respectable, innately powerful guild that can't offer as much money but at least has self respect.

:P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Piker on January 21, 2008, 11:15:51 pm
This is a really great guild idea, i really wish you well with it. I couldn't join the guild personaly, but would be most happy to participate in events/rp you organise :)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 21, 2008, 11:23:47 pm
I like this initiative a lot. It might not be accepted by all players but that's their loss. Consider my characters accepting the Hydlaa Arena staff rules.

Now how about full guild membership or 'season tickets' to the Arena? Pay a single big sum of tria and enjoy prolonged admission. I think quite a few people would be interested in that .. and it'd cut down on your work hours needed for the collection of fees. ;)

And Phinehas, self-respect begins with respecting others.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 11:31:57 pm
I like this initiative a lot. It might not be accepted by all players but that's their loss. Consider my characters accepting the Hydlaa Arena staff rules.

Now how about full guild membership or 'season tickets' to the Arena? Pay a single big sum of tria and enjoy prolonged admission. I think quite a few people would be interested in that .. and it'd cut down on your work hours needed for the collection of fees. ;)

And Phinehas, self-respect begins with respecting others.
I agree with that idea. I'd be much more tempted to buy a membership for the Arcane Brotherhood than I would be to buy one for myself.

And Zan, no it doesn't.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Velh Krome on January 22, 2008, 12:15:57 am
I really do hope you can manage to bring some life to that "dead" place, Donari, nice work!
To have Greg your guild-leader I actually consider an interesting feature! I for one wouldnt expect you to act in a way one would want (reasonably..) to complain about godmodding.

Good luck with it!

Oh, and if one of my chars should intent to enter the arena, I hope he will have enough trias in his coinpurse;)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Marqsaynt on January 22, 2008, 12:33:38 am
2.1 Fees
The Arena will charge 20 tria entrance fee, except of those that can prove they are doing business with the Arena staff. Multiple entry passes may be purchased. Furthermore, fighters pay 50 tria in order to provide healing for gladiators, to keep the beast stock constant and to refurnish the gladiators with new equipment. During events, except the Beast Hunt, the participants pay 30 tria registration fee, being excluded from the entrance fee. Spectators pay the usual entrance fee.
Naturally, roleplayed money will be accepted.
One of the oldest RPs I know of that thug/thief/etc. type characters or guilds have used is the road block RP where a person is "shaken down" for a fee in exchange for passage... While not the intent, this honestly has the same highway robbery feel to me. This feel stems not from the fact that you're offering a service but, that you're charging people to use what I assume at least are public lands. Basically, if the Arena is some sort of public good, supplied by the Octarchy and managed with taxes... this small fee is actually extortion. ;)
2.3 Gladiators and ranking system:
The Hydlaa Arena hires skilled fighters and trains them in combat. These skilled fighters are ranked according to their strength. Any challenger can challenge a gladiator in a specific discipline, providing the staff deems the challenger equal or weaker then the gladiator.
I hope you are talking about "real" characters and not just NPCs. Supplying actual professional fighter player characters for the purpose of training I could actually see as a justifiable means of charging "fees" and I think would encourage RP between people that otherwise may never interact. One other thing that rubs me a bit the wrong way is the "providing the staff deems the challenger equal or weaker then the gladiator" policy, it seems needlessly controlling and not in the nature of the Arena... If a person is dumb enough to get themselves killed I don't exactly see why it is your job to stop them.
2.3 Rules of conduct:
Every participant needs to apply for a gladiator or an animal. Violating this application process will mean possible exclusion from the Arena for a period of time. Those that do not accept the existance of this guild do not have any right to claim a NPC in face of the fighters in front of the Arena staff. If someone that accepts the guild fights against a gladiator and someone else that accepts the guild wants to fight the same one, it'll be handled by the Arena staff. If someone that does not accept the guild fights an NPC, those involved need to handle it by themselves.
This is just asking for trouble... I am really not looking forward to the day when some overzealous junior member of your guild decides they have the RP-given right to start evicting people from NPCs. Also, how is it decided who fights which NPC? First come first serve? Whoever pays the most for the best? For how long can a person stay there? And doesn't this just encourage the same OOC camping?
3.1 Staff members:
Furthermore, the Arena needs several animal trainers that see to the wellbeing and supply of animals. Various clerks are required to keep the finances in order and to handle the assignment of fighters, to charge the fees and to enlist participants for events.
Staff members will receive free training, equipment and free repair ICly (As far as the income allows it).

3.2 Jobs&Quests:
The Hydlaa Arena offers several jobs and quests to non staff members, like provision of food and drink to spectators, the repair of damaged equipment or the crafting of latter. Furthermore, various small quests that can be assigned by staff members will be included.

This is the part of the guild that I see as having the most promise... Basically I would suggest avoiding RPing the will of Gregori and the actual management of the Arena and focus on enhancing the atmosphere of the area by offering services that no one else is offering. I for one would have no problem paying for creative services that from a logistical standpoint are difficult for an NPC to offer, i.e. tournaments, training partners, weapon repair, healing, etc.

Regardless of any reservations I have about this idea, I still am curious to see how it all turns out in the end. Thumbs up for at least trying something different. :thumbup: 
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 02:12:49 am
/me yanks Marqsaynt over to his side.
He's with me.

Thanks Marqsaynt, you put your finger on the issues that I couldn't quite seem to get out the way I wanted.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 22, 2008, 10:52:12 am
I'd like to counter a few of those arguments ...

2.1: Are we paying taxes already? Not by my knowledge so how can paying for using facilities be seen as extortion? Honestly, not having to pay for those things was unrealistic. Which gladiator risks their lives for nothing? I have to say that I find your opinion to be based on OOC knowlegde, mainly the knowledge that this is a player initiative and not settings endorsed. To my characters it makes perfect sense that I have to pay for entertainment and use of governement facilities. Our reward is that we can keep the defeated gladiator's goods .. theirs is their pay.

2.3: I think you misread, the Arena Staff wants to arrange fair fights. This means they won't pitch anyone up against a challenge that will easily be defeated, with no risk for losing yourself. One different issue I see with this is that we players can't kill gladiators (they respawn = recover) but gladiators do kill us.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Marqsaynt on January 22, 2008, 11:10:45 am
2.1: Are we paying taxes already? Not by my knowledge so how can paying for using facilities be seen as extortion? Honestly, not having to pay for those things was unrealistic. Which gladiator risks their lives for nothing? I have to say that I find your opinion to be based on OOC knowlegde, mainly the knowledge that this is a player initiative and not settings endorsed. To my characters it makes perfect sense that I have to pay for entertainment and use of governement facilities. Our reward is that we can keep the defeated gladiator's goods .. theirs is their pay.

Taxes are already part of the settings. They are mentioned in the laws and in spite of whether a system is coded yet that allows for taxes to be "really" collected, to ignore them is just as bad as RPing that criminals can freely roam, pillage, and murder since the guards can't "really" do anything... heck, by that logic why not just ignore every law written down since there isn't any way to enforce them?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 22, 2008, 12:05:32 pm
I don't ignore taxes .. I see this guild as the first implementation of them. As far as my characters know the money they pay to the Hydlaa Arena goes to said arena. In other words it goes to the government because they own the arena. I'm ignoring that it really goes towards players who take the function of a government endorsed program, that is OOC information.

In all the years that I've been with this game there was always an idea that players could not possibly take part in any official government manner, this had to be left to the settings and GMs. I never agreed with this because I never heard a good reason why they couldn't.

Personally, unless settings says this project is a no-go, through the government .. I consider the guild in their full right to collect entrance fees and what-not. Of course not a lot of players will pay them but that's another matter.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 22, 2008, 01:46:02 pm
First of all concerning the fees. If the Arena would be managed by taxes, you wouldn't be allowed to loot anything, and that's just pretending you did not kill your opponent. You loot things, keep the money for yourself. You kill animals, which are quite expensive to replace. The amount of swords looted in the Arena each day exceeds the smiting capacities of all the smiths in the vicinity of Hydlaa. If the Arena would be financed by taxes, the Octarchy wouldn't have much money left. Later, we'll also have season passes. We don't know hot to do them yet, as there's no time in PS.

Concerning the gladiators, of course they'll be mostly players. I detest NPCs. Gladiators are the Arena's capital. If you'd just let them be severely wounded by a person significantly stronger then them, soon, the Arena would be a large hospital.

The NPC assignment thing is just something I came up with, as it is how the Arena would be managed realistically. After all you wouldn't move through an Arena drawing your swords on any gladiator and beast you'd cross. You'd actually ask those that supply the gladiators/beasts wether they can spare them. As the Arena is primarily focussed on fighting, and not earning money, I'd say whoever comes first gets it. However, it'll be difficult to realize. And next, I did not say we'd evict anyone. We'll only assign NPCs "unoccupied" by persons. However we're still a good distance away from implementing that, the assignment of NPCs.

The guild will always be officially led by Gregori.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sen on January 22, 2008, 02:14:34 pm
I love the idea.  :woot:

/me readies to pay the entry fees


Sen
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 22, 2008, 04:02:58 pm
To me as long as the guild is giving something tangible to the community other than promises it seems like a fair concept.

Be very wary that the actions of those collecting fees is not construed as harassment.

If someone tells you to back off IC or OOC immediately do so to avoid any troubles.

This is also not much different than someone camping out in the church claiming to be a priest (not that I would know anything about that.)

It is always a very delicate thing when players try to roleplay elements of the government I hope the guild will be very mature in how it handles community reaction and that it will fulfill its promises.


Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Shambla on January 22, 2008, 05:18:57 pm
I stand with Marqsaynt in my apprehensions.

Personally, it sounds to me like an attempt to monopolize the arena and its Kills for them selves. If I chose to play NPCs in the arena, and they try to tell me I have no right to do so and I must give up what I am playing, I will not. I will play as I chose with out being required to pay a fee. As far as I am concerned the rules of the land apply to the arena also and those are the rules I will play there by. I will not relinquish what I am playing because someone tells me they paid a ridicules fee to buy that NPC. NPCs can not be owned by player, guild or event.

I see this as a major problem. I have posted this in the Paladins forum for feedback but can be rather sure it will not be accepted easily.

As I said before. If I chose to fight there, and I have control of a fight, I will retain it regardless of claims that "I paid for this NPC, it is mine."


(http://www.paladinsguild.org/Pages/PaladinsCrest.jpg)


- Master At Arms, Shambla. Guild Master of the Guild, Paladins -
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 22, 2008, 05:39:44 pm
Shambla, you should read the posts properly before you side against something. Nobody mentioned anything about taking NPCs away from other players.

Quote
We'll only assign NPCs "unoccupied" by persons.

Quote
If someone that does not accept the guild fights an NPC, those involved need to handle it by themselves.

This guild is not about hogging all NPCs, it is about providing services to the players for a small fee. Events, delegating free NPC as well as player gladiators, giving quests, handing out extra services like healing and repairing of equipment, etc.

The only people that would have to worry about anything are the ones that run up to occupied NPCs and take them away because they have faster weapons or can spam the attack button quicker. If you're one of those, then shame on you! :thumbdown:
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 22, 2008, 05:55:47 pm
Don't see the NPC assignment as compulsory, see it as optional for hardcore roleplayers.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Marqsaynt on January 22, 2008, 09:26:04 pm
Xillix, I agree with like 90% of what you said. However, I do see a slight but pretty important difference between this RP and something like RPing a bartender at Kada's (or a Laanx priest ;)).

This idea of charging "fees" to enter the arena is just like if someone decided to RP they are the new management at the Kada El tavern, still answerable to the "vacationing" Kada but, getting sent orders from abroad to carry out her will... and this week, her will is that Kada El's needs to charge a cover to get through the door (50 tria, or half price if you're an attractive female :P). They throw together a guild, hire a large Kran as the bouncer... and get to work "running" Kada's, although they aren't -really- the ones running it... Kada owns it, they're just doing what she wants... Have a problem with it? Take it up with Gregori Kada. See any problems with accountability yet?

Obviously this type of RP is different than someone that just RPs being a part time bartender, that sells drinks, and works basically for tips (or in the case of a priest RP, donations). A bartender character isn't trying to take over an area, just enhance the atmosphere.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 22, 2008, 10:41:23 pm
If you are unwilling to roleplay with this guild, then feel free to ignore it. We aren't trying to take over anything. Do you know how much money 20 tria per person entering the Arena are? If I mined with a single char I'd earn more in an hour then I did per day collecting entrance fees. All the money goes to events. We already did two, and the money is draining. Also keep in mind that I spent 20k tria creating the guild, and if I was set upon getting any money back, I'd probably spend the rest of my life standing in front of the Arena.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 10:52:37 pm
He's not questioning your motives in collecting the money, Donari. He's questioning the validity of it in an RP sense. Surely you knew this discussion would come up when you created the guild?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 22, 2008, 11:17:13 pm
Hello there Donari!

I don't like how the Promotional Thread topic post begins and ends. You should concern yourself more with making something that can't be brought down by others instead of apologizing for it.

I like the overall organization and how the promotional thread looks. I don't enjoy the needless OOC information used to excuse and justify action tough. I'd remove from the concept everything about players not "believing the guild exists". That way you make some players focus on that part.
In order to be successful at shrugging defiance you'd better get a name that doesn't make it look like the one only possible Arena management  guild. I'm hoping we will have more around, so the prices can lower and the events may change.

IC wise, for it to be consistent it would certainly need approval by the government. Considering I've seen players role playing half demons and other such nonsense, I think that isn't something too far fetched.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Marqsaynt on January 22, 2008, 11:30:34 pm
As I see it, there really are only two or three aspects of this guild idea that I see as being a potential problem... Only thing is, those ideas very easily can be ones that polarize the PS community and (rightfully so or not) overshadow any of the other arguably good ideas.

So, since I've already pointed out what I personally see as problematic... I guess the least I can do is offer a few thoughts that I think could potentially remedy some of the more controversial aspects.

1. Take "donations" instead of charging fees. As it stands right now, the fees are so minimal anyway, that I'd guess that you'd probably make more money from kind benefactors that like what you're doing, enjoy the tournaments, like having "real" gladiator training partners, than you ever would from charging minuscule fees. For example, one person donating a small gift of 4 circles would be the equivalent of 50 people that had paid entrance fees.

This would also eliminate any possibility that a person could feel "railroaded" by being asked for an entrance fee, and removes one of the controversial RP issues.

2. Reconsider the "we are official" vibe... I have no problem with an organization that works for the improvement of the arena and the promotion of it's facilities but, when you try to tie in having Gregori actually running a player based guild... it seems to at the very least push the boundaries of what is acceptable RP. If a group was operating in the arena, obviously they'd be doing so with Gregori's permission (from what I've read in his book, he'd probably allow it as long as he got a "cut" :P). However, why is it necessary to be -The- Arena staff? If this guild was an entity seperate from the actual NPCs that run the Arena, it seems to me another possibly controversial problem would be resolved.

3. Don't worry about assigning NPCs... It would be more of a headache than it's worth for reasons too numerous for me to even want to attempt listing. (Keep the assignment idea though with the player gladiators, I think it's a good idea and could work well.)

And with that... I think I've probably said all I've wanted to say. Hope some of this is actually helpful, would hate to see a handful of questionable guild aspects overshadow and potentially doom the many other awesome ideas you came up with for this guild.

 
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 11:48:48 pm
I agree with both Marqsaynt and Sangwa. There are some issues to be worked out, but take them into consideration and move on, no need to apologize for trying something new or innovative.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 23, 2008, 12:09:13 am
Thank you for all your comments. Fees are changed to donating and paying for events. However, I will not reconsider the "official" vibe, as if the guild would not be lead by Gregori, it's reason of existance would be void. The Arena is owned by the vigesimi, and Gregori is the taskmaster of it. Gregori mentions "my staff" when you talk to him, this means no guild will be hired by him to do the work, but everyone working in the Arena would be employed by him. I consider the fact that the guild pretends to be taking care of the Arena in an official way essentially to the existance of it. Settings won't change for now, so I got to adapt to them. It's either that or nothing.
Sangwa, I removed the apology in the conclusion, but not in the introduction. Players need to be aware of the fact that this guild isn't truly official, so they need to keep that in mind while judging the guild.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 23, 2008, 01:13:03 am
I still think the official vibe is out of place. I think it's more coherent to misinterpret Gregori's words and claim that he does have a staff but some other people can work at the arena (I believe there is no written rule that forbids visitors of making events within the arena [specially if these don't bother the people who usually visit it]) than having a whole guild, and then everyone else that plays with this guild going against the settings so obviously.
The last is a lot more likely to cause dissension. I tell this of experience, considering Proglin and other people have held events in the Arena without trouble. However, everyone I've seen trying to role play stuff like they had been accepted by Vigesimi or Octarch have gone very wrong.

The way you take your approach seriously is good enough to keep your guild unofficial (both IC and OOC) until something else (if it does happen) is decided. Again, I strongly advise you to reconsider, as I'd rather not see such a good initiative get on the bad side of some conservative members of the community.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 23, 2008, 11:29:27 pm
A taskmaster that does nothing in the Arena and has other ones doing the job for him? No, that'd make Gregori unimportant.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 23, 2008, 11:48:43 pm
Nice, I like your careful and thorough consideration of Sangwa's point. :P

Really, though... I have to agree with Sangwa. Allying yourself with an NPC and saying that when he refers to his staff it means you seems to be a bit of the stretch. Surely there's a way you can occupy the same space without needing to partake in his authority?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 24, 2008, 12:01:02 am
I will reconsider the point of being under Gregori's authority, but if I do not find something that is entirely within the given settings,the guild will stay the way it is. However, if anyone has problems with this guild being Gregori's staff, I invite them to join the guild.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 24, 2008, 01:21:51 am
However, if anyone has problems with this guild being Gregori's staff, I invite them to join the guild.
Wait, what? If you don't like it, join?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 24, 2008, 01:41:36 am
She's claiming we can't beat her.

"If you can't beat them, join them."

A taskmaster that does nothing in the Arena and has other ones doing the job for him? No, that'd make Gregori unimportant.

As it is Gregori doesn't do squat. And that's his own (who ever is responsible for creating events) fault, not your Guild's. You'll just be lending a hand, until either Gregori hires you or gets his own staff doing stuff.
:P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 24, 2008, 01:19:44 pm
I do not claim you can't beat me, it is a fact ;). No, it wasn't meant like "If you can't beat them, join them", but I would like to offer those that feel that this guild has taken over a part of the game just for power and to deprive them of something they could do a chance to involve themselves.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 24, 2008, 02:41:42 pm
Well, we might come up with a guild just like yours, only named "Hydlaa's Arena Company" and claim Gregori considers us his staff too. That's why we're worried.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 24, 2008, 04:06:00 pm
I don't like this argument ...

Why can a guild not work together with NPCs? From an IC point of view they're all people and it would make absolutely no sense that a group of people took over command of the Arena from Gregori when settings clearly states he is the taskmaster in charge of the Arena and his wishes are known to us. Ignoring Gregori is in my opinion worse.

 Dakkru's Will claims to work together with all the important NPCs of the Death Realm, they worship a Goddess who isn't controlled by players .. what's the difference? I can kill in Dakkru's name but I can't make money in Gregori's name?  :P And to be honest I'm kind of fed up with being careful and not getting intricately involved with the settings: NPCs, Government, ... just because some people might get jealous, disagree or try to copy it. If you're upset because some concept or initiative claims to be the authority or first in their field (when they really are) well .. too bad for you but you should have thought of it first or do it better, plain and simple. That's not saying you can't copy them and compete with them but fact is, you're not the original thinker.

Protecting people from getting jealous .. or even from immature people thinking up pitiful plots warping settings should not come at the cost of roleplay and immersion into the world. If settings decides that Donari's guild is not the way Gregori runs his arena, then Donari will have to accept that in the future. Until then I see nothing wrong with claiming to work for Gregori .. it makes more sense than if they aren't. I say judge every situation independently and don't punish people with good ideas that make sense because there might possibly be people with bad ideas waiting to copy them. Punish the bad ideas.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 24, 2008, 04:25:25 pm
One thing is "claiming" another thing is actually being. Anyone else can make a guild that worships Dakkru and claim to have connections with its important people. This way timing and competition remain the only disadvantages for anyone creating a similar guild.


I don't really think it actually matters if this Guild is Gregori's staff or not, as I'm fine with it either way. It's a great project, like most stuff Donari comes up with and I'm hoping it'll make the Arena as fun as it should be.
However I would comprehend the frustration of someone else that planned to make a similar guild and be met with less sympathy. I am guessing that in this circumstance players would lean over choosing Donari's Guild because it assumes an official status. That would be a very unfair situation.

That's what I mean.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Janner on January 24, 2008, 04:50:49 pm
 :thumbdown: After my encounter with this hastily put together guild.

1. No real background knowledge seamed to have be researched, as they were claiming Gregori owned it when they first entered the game.

2. They clam to be enhancing roleplay, yet for 1 hour until they were told to stop, 75% of say was [ooc]

3. I have seen it claimed no one will be told to leave. quote from a member of this guild. "If you want to leave, feel free to do so"

4. I was also Harassed in tells, also they Harassed me by luring monster away with magic, to stop me fighting it.

5. But the biggest sin of all was on #planeshift, I was accused of being rude in tells.

SO to sum up, if you want this, do not force it on others. Also do not harass anyone in away.

Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 24, 2008, 05:22:40 pm
However I would comprehend the frustration of someone else that planned to make a similar guild and be met with less sympathy. I am guessing that in this circumstance players would lean over choosing Donari's Guild because it assumes an official status. That would be a very unfair situation.

I don't think so .. someone else planning a similar guild will be met with less sympathy because they're not the first to do so and can be accused of simply copying Donari's recipy (regardless of whether they did or not). Obviously they can assume an equally official status and also say they work with Gregori, applying his rules to the Arena. That means they'll be practically the same as this guild though.

I would chose Donari's guild because it is original and the first of it's kind .. unless the new guild has a better concept of course. :P

What Donari intends by claiming they work under Gregori is exactly the same as what I intended by claiming Dakkru's Will works under Oriven, Rulayne and Londris. It means these guilds will abide by the material settings already gave us, create extra content beyond it to a degree but each time that new settings material comes up they'll re-evaluate the way they work. Saying Gregori is in charge is in many ways the same as saying Settings is in charge. Settings brought out a book, under Gregori's name of how the Arena should work. This guild is simply meant to turn said book into practice.

And should a guild with the same job pop up .. well, UtM already said it, just like when you have two different people bartending the same tavern .. both will have to decide whether they'll work together or fight eachother for customers.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 24, 2008, 05:42:59 pm
Janner, again, you proved to me that you are someone that lacks understanding of roleplay. What my char does and says is totally different from what I do and say.
1. A lie. At least I and Nadesa never did so, I do not know about the newbie we recruited.
2. People wanted an explanation of the guild, and I gave it to them. Now, there is almost 0 OOC chat.
In order to understand why Janner is wrong, I need to explain what happened. My char, Vencarias, talked to Janner ICly. No indication was made Janner wanted me to stop OOCly, thus I assumed he wanted Vencarias to convince Janner. I received a tell in a few metres distance, and I assumed it was a whisper. After a while it struck me as a realization that I might not have a roleplayer in front of me, but someone that might be confused about roleplay and how to seperate OOC and IC. So I replied, asking him OOCly wether he wanted me to stop. I did not receive an answer until I asked again. In his reply, Janner's tone was most inappropriate, he accused me of forcing roleplay onto him. However, I never received anything from him stating he would like to cease the roleplay with me prior to this point. I expressed my thoughts about him on IRC.
Point 4 is a lie. The characters in the guild don't even have any glyphs or magic skills up to now.

If anyone else would like to do another guild that works for Gregori, feel free to do so. Up to now the only thing we claim is to be under Gregori's leadership, we do not claim to be the only ones udner his leadership.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Janner on January 24, 2008, 06:08:41 pm
Janner, again, you proved to me that you are someone that lacks understanding of roleplay. What my char does and says is totally different from what I do and say.
1. A lie. At least I and Nadesa never did so, I do not know about the newbie we recruited.
Quote
  Vencarias wrinkles his fat eyebrows "Well, master Stevald owns it"
2. People wanted an explanation of the guild, and I gave it to them. Now, there is almost 0 OOC chat.
In order to understand why Janner is wrong, I need to explain what happened. My char, Vencarias, talked to Janner ICly. No indication was made Janner wanted me to stop OOCly, thus I assumed he wanted Vencarias to convince Janner. I received a tell in a few metres distance, and I assumed it was a whisper. After a while it struck me as a realization that I might not have a roleplayer in front of me, but someone that might be confused about roleplay and how to seperate OOC and IC. So I replied, asking him OOCly wether he wanted me to stop. I did not receive an answer until I asked again. In his reply, Janner's tone was most inappropriate, he accused me of forcing roleplay onto him. However, I never received anything from him stating he would like to cease the roleplay with me prior to this point. I expressed my thoughts about him on IRC.
Quote
(13:31:18) Janner says: That is why this place was built so go away and stop bothering me.
Quote
(13:33:37) Janner says: Again I say go away.
Side not here Janner|RennajI will prove no more here as Both a Head of Devs and GM Leader has seen all the logs.
Point 4 is a lie. The characters in the guild don't even have any glyphs or magic skills up to now.

If anyone else would like to do another guild that works for Gregori, feel free to do so. Up to now the only thing we claim is to be under Gregori's leadership, we do not claim to be the only ones udner his leadership.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 24, 2008, 06:24:20 pm
1. A lie. At least I and Nadesa never did so, I do not know about the newbie we recruited.
I=Me, the player. Vencarias=my char.

The rest was IC chat, no reason for me as a player to assume I should stop. Unfortunately there are people who don't keep OOC and IC seperate.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 24, 2008, 06:57:21 pm
:thumbdown: After my encounter with this hastily put together guild.

1. No real background knowledge seamed to have be researched, as they were claiming Gregori owned it when they first entered the game.

2. They clam to be enhancing roleplay, yet for 1 hour until they were told to stop, 75% of say was [ooc]

3. I have seen it claimed no one will be told to leave. quote from a member of this guild. "If you want to leave, feel free to do so"

4. I was also Harassed in tells, also they Harassed me by luring monster away with magic, to stop me fighting it.

5. But the biggest sin of all was on #planeshift, I was accused of being rude in tells.

SO to sum up, if you want this, do not force it on others. Also do not harass anyone in away.


First it's important to note that you can't make something work well without experience. Not unless you're extremely lucky. I'll try to give my opinions based on Janner's account of things.

1- In the Promotional Thread topic it seems there is a good background knowledge. Donari has read the book and obviously contacted Gregori. She may have failed in either expressing that knowledge or in communicating it to her staff. If so... She should think about organizing things better.

I considered the other points as rather irrelevant since they do not concern the guild directly, instead focusing on the interaction between players. This should be handled by GM's, not discussed in the Guild Forum.

As a side note, Janner considers "The Hydlaa's Arena" isn't owned by Gregori and the guild's official vibe automatically sounded defying to him. That's what I meant about conservative players.
He's a GM and he should know what is acceptable... I haven't seen him take much notice of any other guild though and there are ones with graver assumptions.

However I would comprehend the frustration of someone else that planned to make a similar guild and be met with less sympathy. I am guessing that in this circumstance players would lean over choosing Donari's Guild because it assumes an official status. That would be a very unfair situation.

I don't think so .. someone else planning a similar guild will be met with less sympathy because they're not the first to do so and can be accused of simply copying Donari's recipy (regardless of whether they did or not). Obviously they can assume an equally official status and also say they work with Gregori, applying his rules to the Arena. That means they'll be practically the same as this guild though.

I would chose Donari's guild because it is original and the first of it's kind .. unless the new guild has a better concept of course. :P

What Donari intends by claiming they work under Gregori is exactly the same as what I intended by claiming Dakkru's Will works under Oriven, Rulayne and Londris. It means these guilds will abide by the material settings already gave us, create extra content beyond it to a degree but each time that new settings material comes up they'll re-evaluate the way they work. Saying Gregori is in charge is in many ways the same as saying Settings is in charge. Settings brought out a book, under Gregori's name of how the Arena should work. This guild is simply meant to turn said book into practice.

And should a guild with the same job pop up .. well, UtM already said it, just like when you have two different people bartending the same tavern .. both will have to decide whether they'll work together or fight eachother for customers.
A good point. Specially if Donari doesn't complain about having other people sharing that "official" status. I'm still not seeing her happy if  someone takes up that task for itself and starts acting like a complete corrupt/clown while assuming to be Gregori's staff.
That is why I keep my conservative thinking: assuming official status is a responsibility that should be handed by the corresponding authority within PlaneShift.

Again, I agree wholeheartedly that Donari is doing what should have been done a while ago, either by a player project (maybe one less ambitious as far as demanding official status is concerned) or by the respective part of the PlaneShift team. I'd rather have Donari claiming full official status than have no one tending to the Arena.

EDITED: Erased a part and added another, to reflect what Donari said.
EDITED x2: Considered point 2 irrelevant as well.

Moderator's Note: I think Janner and Donari have discussed enough about their encounter. Further conversation concerning that topic and failing to provide useful opinions to the guild will be deleted.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: saladasalad on January 25, 2008, 12:26:47 am
Quote
First of all, I'd like to make people think about the Arena as an actual place of meeting, not just some place to kill mobs and loot stuff.

I'm not sure that the Arena really should be a 'place of meeting', I always thought that it was the one place in Yliakum that actually was dedicated to killing mobs and looting stuff.

Quote
Next, I'd like to provide another area of roleplay, as I noticed a lack of it recently, especially in the training aspect. I hope that this guild will help those that were too much involved with the game mechanics to learn to enjoy roleplay. Not only to those the guild will be an addition for the game, but also for those that prefer to roleplay, as the guild will open new possibilities for roleplay.

IMO, this project feels like a direct attack on so-called 'power-levellers' by the elitist RPers. I believe many other people that frequent the Arena will view it the same way.

Quote
The Hydlaa Arena guild focusses on the maintenance of the Arena and it's handling. Furthermore, it organizes several events that see to the entertainment of the Arena's visitors and those that challenge the gladiators.

What about events/tournaments organised by third-parties? Will they need permission from this guild or will they also be able to claim permission from Gregori? What if Gregori accidentally gives permission to 2 different event organisers at the same place at the same time?

Disclaimer: This is not an attack, please do not treat it as such.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Velh Krome on January 25, 2008, 12:56:27 am
First off, PS is an RPG, so roleplayers should have priority.
Then I cant see the direct attack. It strives to provide an atmosphere in the arena that also suits roleplayers and may give them a reason to go there at all. I for one am hardly there, since I could only roleplay without any response form other chars there. After all, how can roleplay be a direct attack on powerlevelers? Everyone not giving a heck about can just ignore it.
So if you want so, supporting roleplayers can be a direct attack on powerlevelers, why ever.

I assume a "place of meeting" means right that atmosphere that emphasizes roleplay. Currently the arena is sort of "inofficially" declared as an ooc place. Not very fitting for a roleplaying game to have such spots. You can say "killng mobs and looting stuff", but you could also say its for "for maintaining battle skills and gaining experience, to keep up a sharp mind and reflexes". The way you worded it already proves it to be an ooc'ish place, yet. Of course to have main spammed by green messages by default also causes people to ignore the arena. Maybe that default could be changed..

Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: saladasalad on January 25, 2008, 01:41:48 am
First off, PS is an RPG, so roleplayers should have priority.

You could put it that way but you could also say that because we are all playing an RPG that we are all roleplayers. Some people hold an elitist attitude about it though and would like to exclude those that they call powerlevelers.

The way you worded it already proves it to be an ooc'ish place, yet.

I used the wording 'killng mobs and looting stuff' because that is the wording used in the opening post, and that precise wording sets the tone of the guild description; the 'anti-powerleveling in the Arena' tone that makes the guild seem like a direct attack on 'PLers'. See my point?

The way I see it, if I'm RPing and character who is training in the Arena by fighting gladiators and rogues to the death, then I'm unlikely to be in the position to conduct meaningful discussions at the same time (this is what some around here might call 'powerleveling'). Doing so would distract me from the blood-thirsty rogue trying to hack me to death. After a hard day's training in the arena, I might go to the tavern to have some drinks and have a chat with some friends (so-called 'RPing'). The tavern (and anywhere else not crawling with aggro npc's) is the appropriate place for casual and/or serious discussion... not the Arena.

You see, it all depends on your definition of roleplaying. In my eyes, the people who frequent the arena are correctly RPing someone training at the Arena. Anyone sitting around the arena, drinking and talking about their love life has a strange idea of what roleplaying is, yet doing the same thing in a tavern...... I hope you all understand where I'm coming from here.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Dajoji on January 25, 2008, 01:46:31 am
First off, PS is an RPG, so roleplayers should have priority(...)

Careful there. All players have the same right to enjoy the game the way they like best as long as they do not ruin it for others and respect the game rules. No priorities when it comes to whose fun comes first.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 25, 2008, 09:31:12 am
If you insist on seeing this as an attack, see it as an attack to retrieve some ground which we gave up without a fight in the past.  ;) Like Velh said, the arena has always been a rather OOC place, training, looting and what not. It is filled with levelers and roleplay is rare. This initiative is meant to introduce roleplay to the Arena again. So let me turn your feeling of unfounded hostilities against levelers around ... why should levelers be the only ones that have something positive in the arena? You guys have ruled that place for so long, now give us a piece too and let us have this guild. It is not about enforcing roleplay, it is about providing roleplay for those who want it.

All we really have is the tavern, partially because of our own kind's unwillingness to go elsewhere, I admit. But I wouldn't be worried about having next week's tea sipping session of the guild of extraordinary gentlemen in the arena. People still go there to fight and train, but now we can go there properly and interact a bit at least .. instead of just going quietly, standing by an NPC and killing it over and over and over.

I'm not going to talk about who has priority but I will ask this ... Why is it so hard for some people to share?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: saladasalad on January 25, 2008, 10:31:09 am
But I wouldn't be worried about having next week's tea sipping session of the guild of extraordinary gentlemen in the arena.

;D

Please don't assume that I am a powerleveler and that I oppose RP.... I just don't see the clear distinction between them that other's do. Most people I know that are so-called powerlevelers enjoy a good RP as much as the rest of us, they might not be as creative or confident as the rest of us though. It's worth having a think about. ;)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Donari Tyndale on January 25, 2008, 01:32:42 pm
*Donari equips his anti-powerleveller armour and readies for battle. He smiles innocently "An assault on powerlevellers?" and quickly hides his sword of roleplay +3 behind bis back. "Never."
The guild offers an option to those that wish not to be disturbed by roleplay and mind their business, as you can choose wether to roleplay with it or not. So far, I received many positive views of this guild from people in the Arena, and only one negative one (You-know-who ;P).

Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Eliseth on January 25, 2008, 04:01:08 pm
You-know-who

I knew it! Voldemort IS here! Its time the truth came out everyone... *sigh* I am Harry Potter. Now, to the magimobile!  :sorcerer:

..

Ahem... anyway, I've been helping Donari with this guild since he started it, and what I've noticed is that most people in the arena are not roleplayers at ALL, most of the ones I've spoken to hardly know these forums even exist! And when I take Nadesa up to them and ask them for a fee, they get down right cranky with me. Understandably so of course, through their eyes I'm just some player claiming to own the place. However, here's the thing... guess what I do when I am faced with such hostility... go 'head guess... I do nothing at all, I tell them "happy training" and go on my merry way.

The point here is, we're not forcing this on anyone, the only ones who will be affected by the guild's existence are the ones who actually WANT to be affected by it. So from my point of view, disputing whether it should or should not exist is rather pointless. As Donari said, if you don't like it, ignore it. Let PLers and RPers live together in harmony, neither disturbing the other. And when a Hydlaa Arena person comes up to you wanting to RP and you don't, just say so, please, we'll leave you alone.

All righty, I've said my piece, now I'm going to go and fight evil. Toodles!
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 25, 2008, 08:15:51 pm
Sorry, Eliseth, but that won't fly. These are the forums and it's perfectly correct for us to discuss whether we, the RPers think that this is a valid guild. You're right in that people who don't want to RP at all can ignore, but what about those who do want to RP, but just don't like the way it's going on? Are you saying that anyone who doesn't like anyone else's RP should just ignore it? I think not. If that were the case we might as well be playing rpgs, instead of mmorpgs...

Sorry for the off-topic--ish-ness-ity, but I disagree strongly with the insinuation that RPers shouldn't be discussing things in the hopes of reaching mutual agreements about RP.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Zan on January 25, 2008, 08:19:30 pm
In my eyes Eliseth was talking about the argument of levelers not liking with roleplayer-oriented guilds being active in the arena. I don't think she said that people with valid arguments can't present them here.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Phinehas on January 25, 2008, 08:37:04 pm
Yeah, I know... but still the "we can do what we want and if you don't like it, ignore it" is a dangerous path to go down...
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Eliseth on January 25, 2008, 09:21:50 pm
Ok Phinehas, point taken. Perhaps my words were not chosen as carefully as they should have been. This isn't a case where we can work with absolutes such as "like it or ignore it". I'm going to completely contradict myself here and say that it is almost impossible to ignore it anyway. If two people occupy the same space, the one will inevitably affect the other, the same goes for groups of people. I think Phinehas is right in that RPers can discuss the details of the guild, but I don't think these arguments have any need to become aggressive, which they have done already. We appreciate those who have highlighted concerns and who have suggested alternatives. We do not however, appreciate those who have come here simply to complain about it and leave it at that.

I honestly think the idea behind this guild is a good one, and unfortunately we will never be able to please everyone. Donari and I knew that this would cause and upset with some people, so I think we should be prepared to discuss it. And Phinehas, my comments on the previous post were mainly aimed at non RPers, but I don't think I made that very clear.

In closing, there isn't much we can do about the fact that we annoy some PLers, but since I'm an RP fanatic and Planeshift is meant to be an RP game, I have little sympathy. As for the RPers, please continue giving your input, and please don't take anything that our characters say IC personally, because I know Vencarias can be a bit hard sometimes, but thats his character.

As a last note, thank you to all the players who have given us some support in game, it does not go unnoticed, and we appreciate it greatly.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Sangwa on January 27, 2008, 01:05:48 am
First off, PS is an RPG, so roleplayers should have priority(...)

Careful there. All players have the same right to enjoy the game the way they like best as long as they do not ruin it for others and respect the game rules. No priorities when it comes to whose fun comes first.

I'll use a very simple example: I want to play Magic the Gathering with someone. I find a partner, his name is Garror, but he tells me he doesn't want to use a Magic the Gathering deck, he wants to use a Pokemon deck. I tell him "No, can't do that. That's not playing Magic the Gathering!" to which he responds "Hey, let me play the game my way!" People who choose not to roleplay in a roleplay game are exactly like Garror; idiots.

Yeah, I know... but still the "we can do what we want and if you don't like it, ignore it" is a dangerous path to go down...
Phinehas is completely right. This is what I consider to be the worst disadvantage in "complementing the settings" and the reason why I believe the "Official Vibe" should be dispersed. Everything you do in PlaneShift should be capable of being roleplayed by everyone. And that is why we have settings.

Quote
In closing, there isn't much we can do about the fact that we annoy some PLers, but since I'm an RP fanatic and Planeshift is meant to be an RP game, I have little sympathy. As for the RPers, please continue giving your input, and please don't take anything that our characters say IC personally, because I know Vencarias can be a bit hard sometimes, but thats his character.
The trick is trying to please as many people as possible. In the Arena people are supposed to be attacking monsters at all time, so you need to take that into account instead of ignoring fighters and vice-versa. Another advantage for you would be trying to speak as little as possible about your relation to Gregori, and when doing so you should make it look like you're around helping and doing your own job, rather than sounding like you are responsible for the Arena itself.
The best thing would be to bring your guild to a GM and have him or her help you out with what is acceptable. GM's should be capable of doing that. If they are not, then file a complaint in the respective part of this forum.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Hydlaa Arena
Post by: Dajoji on January 27, 2008, 04:01:31 am
First off, PS is an RPG, so roleplayers should have priority(...)

Careful there. All players have the same right to enjoy the game the way they like best as long as they do not ruin it for others and respect the game rules. No priorities when it comes to whose fun comes first.

I'll use a very simple example: I want to play Magic the Gathering with someone. I find a partner, his name is Garror, but he tells me he doesn't want to use a Magic the Gathering deck, he wants to use a Pokemon deck. I tell him "No, can't do that. That's not playing Magic the Gathering!" to which he responds "Hey, let me play the game my way!" People who choose not to roleplay in a roleplay game are exactly like Garror; idiots.

Camping, training, doing quests or dueling is not the same as using a "pokemon deck", those are all things supported by the game mechanics. Players who like to spend their in-game time doing only that are free to do so. Problems arise when people don't respect others and try to force them to play the game the way they do, and that can happen both ways.