PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suno_Regin on February 06, 2008, 05:51:21 pm
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Every time there's a GM event, hordes of people crowd around and act completely out of character just to get the reward that isn't even mentioned ICly at the end. I suggest that during these events, the GMs have normal labels, so that people who would actually care what's going on would participate, and the ones only in the event OOCly for the reward would be left out.
It goes like this:
Normal person asks for help - no one cares except the scarce amount of RPers
GM asks for help - everyone in the game crowds around the person and starts acting all goody-goody.
I get pretty sick of it fast. There's no reason why eighty people would care more about, say, a Kran shirking his duties, than someone being abducted and nearly murdered.
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all gms have the option to change label color it is up to them to use it or not.
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Sad thing is, that right for that purpose label colors were introduced.. so, now how is it? Testers have the green labels, any higher level GM a yellow one? Hm.. somehow I have that feeling that doesnt make much sense, not for the given wish that is.
All the last GM events I noticed (of course not necessarily participated) were held by yellow labelled ones, thus crowds partook the way Suno described..
That GMs still may ignore any reasoned rp by players is another thing, as well as often event-plots make no sense at all, but act as isolated entertainment.
Its tedious, seriously, but once more: Use these green labels and make GM events more fun!
Until then I leave it up to the reward-hunters to participate, while I will enjoy a good play with my friends.
EDIT:
Now that Caarrie replied, even more disappointing that apparently no use is made of that option.
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all gms have the option to change label color it is up to them to use it or not.
Alright, but I'm suggesting that it would be better off keeping a normal label. This game is supposed to be for roleplaying, so why don't these events encourage roleplay? Everyone I've seen participating in them acts out of character just to get the reward they know will come by seeing the label. If that label isn't there, and the events progress as normal, people actually act in character and it's a much more enjoyable experience.
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If you dont like it, dont take part, simple!
Instead of moaning. Go do something that makes you happy!
We on the GM team work long and hard to enhance the game for ALL players. When i host an event, i dont care what your RP background is or what your back story is. What i care about is that the community knows we are here for you all. i host events for ALL players to take part in, not just the odd few. I want people to see a yellow or blue label and think "Hey GM event, cool, they do care!"
Its not about the rewards, its about the taking part as a community as a whole. People like you seem to forget that there are new players that are still learning RP and the game itself. When a yellow name appears they know its something special and taking part not only helps the learn to RP but what PS is all about.
Im tired of seeing posts like this where people like you simply moan about the good things we do for the community.
Flame me all you like i will not be replying to anymore posts made in this thread i think you have enough fuel to burn me with. I just hope i dont see you taking part in any of the future events we host.
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That post makes me rather disappointed ... but if that is the official stance then made up my mind about joining the GM team. ::)
That GMs work long and hard, I don't doubt it .. hosting events is tough work and hardly ever appreciated. That you do not seem to be interested in good roleplay but more in pleasing the greater community ... that makes me wonder for the first time if Planeshift really is heading down a better road than all those commercial games out there. Maybe Planeshift isn't a game for me after all.
Do keep making events, I'm certain the majority appreciates them but make no mistake. They are about the reward and the reward alone for those who participate ... though can we ask you to please leave us roleplayers at peace in our tavern? Bringing an OOC mob in there is very disruptive for those that do want to roleplay seriously.
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Usually I dont care much about GM events, like you say, its that simple.
i dont care what your RP background
Not sure whats that referring to. Maybe one of the following two sayings fit?
- I am not talking about my chars background but in some cases the setting itself.
- If my char wouldnt fit in it, he would give not even a heck. But if he is hostile towards any GM-played char and gets ignored when he attacks, how do I have to take that? Is it about either the char one plays will do what the GMs say, always cooperatively in a more oocish way, or one should stay away from the event?
To host GM events for newer people get involved and having the yellow labels to support that may be an honorable approach, no doubt. But I hope you arent intenting to lock out rpers who are trying to have a plot making sense?
I am not intenting to say what GMs say is bad at all, I do see that they have loads of work! Sometimes over time things just drift away and need some nudge for it gets back to normal.
What now? Did I touch a taboo? Is it a topic I should have known its forbidden to talk about?
I just hope i dont see you taking part in any of the future events we host
Wow.. does this have to be taken as an official point of view? In that case the colored labels would have a use too.
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Meh stop it please?
I used to be a GM, and when I was we discussed turning off labels quite often. We even tested it at the time. When we did an event without coloured labels, no one joined. Even serious RP peeps did not react. There are loads of players that want to join in for some RP. People's greed will sometimes prevail and make people join in for just the rewards. I myself loved joining and hosting for the fun of it.
I think there's something to say for both sides, just that I tend to stick with those that experienced both sides. It is meant to be fun. If you do not like them, like Hanix said, then by all means don't join in and have fun elsewhere. But allow others their fun as well. It's impossible all 80 participants are in it for the awards. So in my humble oppinion, it would be best if the duscussion ends with a "live and let live" kinda quote.
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Suno I just don't understand why you deal with things this way. If you didn't like something about the GM event, why didn't you take the time to sit down figure out the problem and perhaps a solution or suggestion or even state what the problem is and that you have no solutions but you just wanted to point them out. Instead you leave these angry messages and you take it out on the GM's. Don't you understand they work really hard? Your ignorant rant will only discourage them and make them feel like you don't give a rats ass what they do just as long as they fix what you complaint about. I guess you really just don't understand how much it takes to make an event happen. It is impossible to make everyone happy as you so nicely pointed out.
@everyone: People if you got an issue with the gm's, do more than just complain. Make an effort to help work out some kinks that you may see. Just please do me a favor (I once was a GM and know that frustrating feeling) show some consideration and respect to these people. They work hard to make fun for you. Quit picking at their posts, at the words they say, trying to catch them up in their words just so you can do the "I told you so" act. Quit thinking that you know better. If you really want to make things happen to your liking join the friggin GM team yourself and see that those changes happen.
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That post makes me rather disappointed ... but if that is the official stance then made up my mind about joining the GM team. ::)
That GMs work long and hard, I don't doubt it .. hosting events is tough work and hardly ever appreciated. That you do not seem to be interested in good roleplay but more in pleasing the greater community ... that makes me wonder for the first time if Planeshift really is heading down a better road than all those commercial games out there. Maybe Planeshift isn't a game for me after all.
Do keep making events, I'm certain the majority appreciates them but make no mistake. They are about the reward and the reward alone for those who participate ... though can we ask you to please leave us roleplayers at peace in our tavern? Bringing an OOC mob in there is very disruptive for those that do want to roleplay seriously.
Zan, the post above yours is the universal excuse from the GMs/Devs about something. I've heard it a ton of times before; you can't criticize or suggest something to them, or else they'll get really defensive and say their way is better without a logical explanation as to how and why.
There weren't even any newer players in the last event I saw (Geanna and Cleaning Kran). Everyone in that event were people that I'd seen and roleplayed with in the past, and JUST because of the label, their personalities were completely different. They all cared more about the reward than acting like their character would, and even though it was said that you should act as your character in these events, that's obviously not how you progress in them.
Using "I have a ton of work to do" isn't an excuse at all. Sure, you work hard, good for you, you volunteered. If you're going to host events as a "branch" of this work, make sure you do it correctly. This game is about roleplay, not rewards, and if you're going to completely ignore what people do and just go with whatever storyline you wanted, what's the point?
There was another event where there was this guy upstairs in the tavern (some Ynnwn) that had his daughter abducted or something. About eighty people crowded around him and started making a ton of noise, causing all of this fuss over something that they wouldn't even care about if it was a normal label. I finally had enough of the noise and, literally, had my character try to kick the GM guy down the stairs and out the door to get him to find his daughter.
Guess what? Completely ignored.
You have no perspective at all. You just do this to give out some reward at the end, which doesn't inspire any sort of RP for newer players. Instead I would see it as "I should go find the guy with the yellow label! He can give me stuff!"
And to Proglin: What you said to begin with is exactly WHY labels should be removed. When you removed the labels, no one joined because the event storyline and plot was, I'm just gonna come out and say it, boring. No one would CARE if a Kran is shirking his duties ICly, but when they see that blue label they ALL swarm around him because they KNOW there will be some type of reward at the end. If these events even have a hope of being hosted ICly, then they should be made into something that peoples' CHARACTERS would care about.
Edit:
Suno I just don't understand why you deal with things this way. If you didn't like something about the GM event, why didn't you take the time to sit down figure out the problem and perhaps a solution or suggestion or even state what the problem is and that you have no solutions but you just wanted to point them out. Instead you leave these angry messages and you take it out on the GM's. Don't you understand they work really hard? Your ignorant rant will only discourage them and make them feel like you don't give a rats ass what they do just as long as they fix what you complaint about. I guess you really just don't understand how much it takes to make an event happen. It is impossible to make everyone happy as you so nicely pointed out.
Zorbels, what do you think this thread is? It states a solution (removing labels) that would encourage roleplay and benefit the overall environment. I've stated the problem (people only joining because of the label and reward), so now if you guys stop complaining that you have all this work to do and your way is better, something could be done. I've said my part, why can't I get a real response?
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Meh stop it please?
I used to be a GM, and when I was we discussed turning off labels quite often. We even tested it at the time. When we did an event without coloured labels, no one joined. Even serious RP peeps did not react. There are loads of players that want to join in for some RP. People's greed will sometimes prevail and make people join in for just the rewards. I myself loved joining and hosting for the fun of it.
I think there's something to say for both sides, just that I tend to stick with those that experienced both sides. It is meant to be fun. If you do not like them, like Hanix said, then by all means don't join in and have fun elsewhere. But allow others their fun as well. It's impossible all 80 participants are in it for the awards. So in my humble oppinion, it would be best if the duscussion ends with a "live and let live" kinda quote.
Rightly so progy old bean - the simple fact that people join only because of the colored label is very ooc, after all if I made a character and went into the plaza and asked people to follow me somewhere, I wouldn't have a huge army following me, I'd be lucky to get one person. It makes people act out of character, emo self-righteous samurai like menkis act like puppies and follow around random people they've never met (cough).... Everyone drops what they're doing in hopes of some grand reward, they are driven oocly, not icly to help this random person. It kills rp.
I'm sorry but I agree with suno 100% - its lame.
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Rightly so progy old bean - the simple fact that people join only because of the colored label is very ooc, after all if I made a character and went into the plaza and asked people to follow me somewhere, I wouldn't have a huge army following me, I'd be lucky to get one person. It makes people act out of character, emo self-righteous samurai like menkis act like puppies and follow around random people they've never met (cough).... Everyone drops what they're doing in hopes of some grand reward, they are driven oocly, not icly to help this random person. It kills rp.
I'm sorry but I agree with suno 100% - its lame.
Colored labels OOC? Well so is walking through one and other. Guess what? Thats partly the players fault. They control the character. Why walk through people when you don't have to? Just like why focus on the most stupidest issue rather than the more important. Sorry guys but I am not buying the "it ruins my roleplay" crap. You can turn off the labels. It doesn't ruin your Rp, you do because you let it bother you. The GM's can't control other players. You will always have those who just join for the reward. Quit making it out to be that it is the Gm's responsibility to fix that. It is YOUR responsibility as players.
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Zorbels, before I even give a reply to that, can you tell me what this thread's about? >.>
You seem to be skimming and saying things that have nothing to do with the topic itself.
If I turn off the labels, that changes absolutely nothing about what these events are doing.
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you guys have issues with labels and colors, how about you see how it works in the next release with introductions where no char will see the label of the gms in the events unless they /introduce themselves to everyone around them so you can see the label.
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you guys have issues with labels and colors, how about you see how it works in the next release with introductions where no char will see the label of the gms in the events unless they /introduce themselves to everyone around them so you can see the label.
The entire reason that GMs don't change their label color, that I see, is so that "more people can participate." Obviously that means that they will be introducing themselves to everyone. Once again, that solves nothing.
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you guys have issues with labels and colors, how about you see how it works in the next release with introductions where no char will see the label of the gms in the events unless they /introduce themselves to everyone around them so you can see the label.
The entire reason that GMs don't change their label color, that I see, is so that "more people can participate." Obviously that means that they will be introducing themselves to everyone. Once again, that solves nothing.
Personally knowing a lot of what goes on behind the running of a gm event i dont see any gm having time to /introduce himself to all the people around him unless he makes a shortcut and that just takes time away from the rp and that is ooc and the gms are trying to be IC when running events. How about for now we lock this thread as it is going no where and see what happens after the next release.
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Caarrie, honestly, this should stay open. As far as we know, the GMs may not even have to introduce themselves - they'd be automatically known by everyone. I haven't even heard how they plan to implement the introduction system yet, since right now with the ideas currently posted it seems unlikely that it would work properly.
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Zorbels, before I even give a reply to that, can you tell me what this thread's about? >.>
You seem to be skimming and saying things that have nothing to do with the topic itself.
If I turn off the labels, that changes absolutely nothing about what these events are doing.
Suno you shoudn't presume to know so much. Because half the time your wrong. I am not like you. I actually read posts. You have even yourself admitted in other threads that you didn't read the posts, you just replied. Don't treat me like I have your bad habits. It is disrespectful.
My point is Suno you expect the Gm's to be able to control the other players and act all perfectly so that you can get your rocks off playing in a roleplay. I am trying to tell you it isn't that easy. You can't control people. The players are responsible for their actions, NOT the Gm's. Tell me Suno, what do you suggest that would make it better? To your liking?
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Labels are OOC and will be gone with the new introduction system I hope. Rewards are OOC most of the time and Zorbels is absolutely right, they should disappear too!
Neither of those ruin my roleplay though. The crazy slave-like mobs of people walking after a person like chicks after a hen .. that disrupts my roleplay. Especially when people start going "Hold that thought, I have an Event to participate in then I'll be right back to continue our conversation.".
Zorbels you're also absolutely right that the players can fix this issue but I don't believe that you're really so naïve. This simple suggestion has turned personal way too fast and without reason from Suno's initial post. It was an impersonal and well-based request. Disagreeing should have been done with proper arguments and without becoming angry.
GMs can fix these issues easily, no new game implementations needed and hardly an effort by them ... but it is clear that they are not interested in turning events around towards better roleplay.
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Well thats the thing, its not us, and we can't control the fact that other people are dumb dumbs.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, but you CAN stab it with an IV and pump water into it.
Zorbels, there are very few players that don't grab onto GM events like a fish grabs a worm on a hook, but this is not supporting good role play, this is not supporting what PS stands for, this is making players purposely act out of character and suck up to what would be total strangers trust me, I've seen it time and time again. Frankly if you ask me change is needed.
Are not the game masters the ones who would like to see people stay IC? - Don't get me wrong events are great, I've seen a good event, where people didn't act like little lost puppies, ever been to one of prog's turnies? (dumb question :P Who hasn't?)
We could A.) re-educate* players into seeing that their flocking to characters because of their pretty labels is out of character, B.) we could have the game masters blend in with the crowd and try gathering people as is - as proglin said himself "When we did an event without coloured labels, no one joined. Even serious RP peeps did not react." And by Talad's name thats how it should be - If yliakum were real, it would take a very special person to drop what they're doing to go help some random stranger.
*haze, harass about staying IC, tell them to go retake the tutorial and stop being such a nooblet.
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Zorbels, before I even give a reply to that, can you tell me what this thread's about? >.>
You seem to be skimming and saying things that have nothing to do with the topic itself.
If I turn off the labels, that changes absolutely nothing about what these events are doing.
Suno you shoudn't presume to know so much. Because half the time your wrong. I am not like you. I actually read posts. You have even yourself admitted in other threads that you didn't read the posts, you just replied. Don't treat me like I have your bad habits. It is disrespectful.
My point is Suno you expect the Gm's to be able to control the other players and act all perfectly so that you can get your rocks off playing in a roleplay. I am trying to tell you it isn't that easy. You can't control people. The players are responsible for their actions, NOT the Gm's. Tell me Suno, what do you suggest that would make it better? To your liking?
Zorbels, I've said it so many times now my fingers are getting tired. The way to fix it is to CHANGE...THE LABELS...
It IS that easy, all you have to do is make it so people don't know it's a GM event, that way, if their character ICly is interested in the event, they'll help, and not only do it because of the fact that there's a reward.
Why do I have to say this so many times? It's like Zan said - you're making your argument personal.
I honestly think that you try to argue with dribble to get me to give up so you won't have to lift that one little finger to change something. This happens every time I try to make a suggestion. You have no argument, you just keep saying how ignorant I am. >.>
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Hello just a few facts, to chew over, this is me talking not the GM team.
1. Two players in the tavern Event that stood out for me, Role play wise, Izzabella and Semutara,I personally think they role played there characters very true to form. Also might interest you to know only "5 participants and an audience of 20 for the final battle." were in that event.
2. next event, no comment as it was NOT a GM one.
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Hello just a few facts, to chew over, this is me talking not the GM team.
1. Two players in the tavern Event that stood out for me, Role play wise, Izzabella and Semutara,I personally think they role played there characters very true to form. Also might interest you to know only "5 participants and an audience of 20 for the final battle." were in that event.
2. next event, no comment as it was NOT a GM one.
That is quite impressive indeed Rennaj.
I know of many good role players who remember to keep themselves in character even when gms are around, its not these players that are the problem, it is the ones who don't stay IC (they stick out like a sore thumb, you know, dark cloak, evil looks, scars across their face all 'rawr im a badarse' like... and they're offering aid to strangers like /me smiles at rennaj. "Good morning m'lord, how can I serve you?"..... '
Now now, I have a feeling im stepping on some toes, and im sorry, I mean no offense zorbels its just frankly something that bugs me, and i'm aware that we can't change players, but if WE do OUR part then maybe it can influence the players, the part for the gms would be blending in label wise with other players - this would make events more difficult - yes, but also this would inspire people to stay IC, which frankly is a real issue, we all must admit.
Don't take offense from this guys, its just an issue, and i'm just trying to share my opinion as to how it could be fixed, to better nurse a rping community... - That however, is a topic for another time, right?
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/me gives an evil little laugh.
I am not a GM, but I have written a few events. Any who found themselves in a few of them found out that you don't always get rewards. The events were their own reward.
On the subject of the Yellow labels, sometimes they are needed, sometimes not. Let's look att he pros and cons.
Pros: People know an official event is going on, and not a player. Does that make a difference? Yes. Player events are not necessarily inside of the settings. I, myself, am quite wary about joining player events. I have been dragged into a few that I did not enjoy by the end because they went so off the wall.
Notice. More people will notice a Yellow, and take heed. The events I helped run sometimes got ignored until the Yellow label was turned on.
Behavior. Players behave themselves better if they see the Yellow. Some of them, anyways. There is less of a chance of folks trying to godmode the situation with their 'unique' character powers.
Cons: Notice. Sometimes too many people notice the Yellow, and the event becomes a mob. The events I designed got around this by either making it so that it was actually intended to for this mob, or by being selective in who was chosen to be in the event to keep the numbers down and in character.
OOC. Yes, folks will go out of character to be in an event. Good guys might do bad things, bad might do good. Folks will do things they normally will not. That is not the GM's fault.
Reward. Everyone expects a reward at the end of a GM event. I guess that would be the reason for the first two cons. My advice is not to give rewards every time.
Several alternatives have been tried. Announcing an event and type of characters wanted on the forum worked very well, even though some people wined that it was OOC. Silly people. Another thing that worked was 'whispering' in folks ears ingame, selecting just the right amount of people. I did this by looking at character descriptions to select the 'right kind' as well. Blue NPC labels actually work quite well as well. They do get some notice, but not a great deal. Going around with a Green and asking folks to help or join you fails terribly.
The hardest part of making an event is to design it so that only certain character types will join in. They are like quests to some folks who do every quest not because it is something their character would do, but because they want to do them all. You also have to design them so that people who did not join don't feel left out. It is a hard balance to keep. Thing about that the next time someone shouts out "This is why I don't do GM events!" What did that moron who shouted that really achieve? Nothing positive.
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moved thread to proper forum area. this thread does not qualify for a lock and will remain open.
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Player events are not necessarily inside of the settings.
Same for GM events, otherwise I would ponder to join those crowded plots for the sake of getting to know more about "Yliakums background".
This, again, is not meant to be a rant, but for "Less GM events, but better and more carefully figured out ones"!
But when one individual is meant to conquer entire Hydlaa by simply turning every citizen and probably every guard around (thats on duty, sober and awake) into a clacker, why would people interested in serious roleplaying set up own plots within the setting? Simple example: Why complaining about players having a char that can kill all guards after a GM showed that its possible?
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A couple of points, also my own take on the situation and not necessarily the official view.
Label colour while having a gold label does trigger a mad rush on occasion having a green one gets little to no response.
The minute we use the /event register command we may as well have a Gold label regardless as everyone calls there guildmates/friends "he get yourself to the tavern/plaza/arena theres an event one. In response to the cry dont use /event register Players want a record of official events the same as they do quests completed.
When I reward I do it based on what I see, I do not have time usually to check everyones desc to see if they are acting IC but I do assess the roleplay and award accordingly.
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On that subject under the moon, I'd just assume scouting out certain characters would be wisest... What I hate most is a guy with a gold tag whom by description would look like an average joe, walks into the center of the hydlaa smithy and says. "I need a group of millita." And everyone just gathers around him as if Laanx himself just took physical form again.
I could understand if a God such s Laanx appeared, that such a gathering would happen.
I was there for a blue tagged event once, errr it was ok, but still people followed a guy who said -... well never mind, the point is that they still flocked around, "omgosh, a npc is moving and talking in main!"
I'd have to say I like the idea of pre scouting and then pulling certain characters aside and speaking with them...
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Actually, calling for a millitia is well within the bounds of the settings.
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Actually, calling for a millitia is well within the bounds of the settings.
Yeah I'm aware, I am not saying it isn't.
Maybe I should'a worded that one better....
Look at it this way, if it were not for the labels, no one would answer that call I know because back when the fighting system was more fun, I used to send shouts asking for a ulber slaying party... - Same sort of thing... (though I got some guys, typically they had nothing else to do...)
Then again I did get a decent outlook, 3 people sometimes?... gah im digging myself a hole here aren't I?
I'm gonna shush for a few more posts... Until I get my thoughts back together.
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My point is that the Label colors are a TOOL. As with any tool, they have their place and use. In some events, no, they should not be used. In others, they must be used. The same goes for worldshouts, shouts, invisible, freeze, the event command, and every other tool a GM has.
To say they should not use Labels anymore for any event is like saying a carpenter should not use a hammer because you should not use it while sawing wood. Frankly, those saying to get rid of it are narrow minded and do not have the ability to see the bigger picture.
The problem is not the Yellow label. It is the usage of it.
I give you a simple example of when it is needed. If a player has a green label and shouts "Fire! My house is on fire!", how many people will come running? I tell you right now that it will not be a realistic number. Now, have a Yellow do the same. You will get a much more realistic crowd.
It is a TOOL! You who say to get rid of it are simply wrong.
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counterpoint to example given: if green labels are used and not enough people come to help, the house burns down and the event has an unhappy ending as opposed to a happy one.
but that is how it goes from time to time. roll with those punches ;)
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counterpoint to example given: if green labels are used and not enough people come to help, the house burns down and the event has an unhappy ending as opposed to a happy one.
but that is how it goes from time to time. roll with those punches ;)
That's not a counterpoint, that just means the house burns down. In fact, that helps me more. It's OOC that more people would come because of the label. All events don't have to have a happy ending.
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No, that just more clearly defines your narrow point of view. It is not realistic for ANYONE to stand by when someone starts yelling that there is a fire. To say so just proves you do not understand basic psychology.
Suno, you are wrong. It would be OOC for people not to go look at the fire in the first place just because the label was green.
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So you're motivating people OOCly by using the label? That's like saying your event is more important than a player one.
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No, that just more clearly defines your narrow point of view. It is not realistic for ANYONE to stand by when someone starts yelling that there is a fire. To say so just proves you do not understand basic psychology.
Suno, you are wrong. It would be OOC for people not to go look at the fire in the first place just because the label was green.
Thats the players fault for not caring... A ooc response is NOT the way to solve a ooc problem.
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Well i personaly love participating in events. Why? well they're fun, and this is a fun game.
I always try to keep true to my char (but my char is a nice guy so it's not that tough usually ;)) And yes you do see people acting contrary to their chars descriptions. But so what, really what harm is that doing? everyone is just having a good time.
As for the rewards thing, well i'd say most people involved aren't in it for the great prize at the end, even though it would be a welcome bonus. We just like being turned into clackers :D
It's probably been said before many times probably, if you don't like them, don't involve yourself.
Yours Truly
Greenback Clacker ;)
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A: Players ARE OOC. If you have to motivate the PLAYER who is sitting behind a desk to do what their character would do, then it is more than acceptable.
B: YES! GM events are more important than player events. what in your strange world makes you think otherwise?
C: Listbard, that view of things is seriously skewwed. I challenge you to come up with a better system that everyone can use. Perhaps GMs should run around to every single character who hears 'Fire' and /tell them "You should really care about this and react to it"... Oh dear, that is OOC again. I know! We'll just have the GMs take direct control of everyone who would care, and lead them to where they should go. No one could act OOC then.
This is yet another situation where folks come in spouting about a 'problem', yet don't offer any real solutions. The only suggestions made don't actually deal with the 'problem'.
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Alright, I have to agree that labels really aren't the real problem here ... the reputation that the events have currently, that is the problem. Maybe keeping the gold labels away when they're not really necessary won't do all that much but in my eyes it's still a start. Together with UtM's suggestion of not always awarding rewards and selecting players with certain skills or reputations for some events.
I think the main problem with the current event reputation is that they've become public quests. Many events are simple errands with people running around getting jewelry, mushrooms and what not for people they've never seen. Simply said events have become cheap entertainment and while there is definitely nothing wrong with quests ... I don't want to see the great potential of events and GMs go to that. We have a very nice Settings team that takes care of quests. If people want to run around following the orders of strangers and getting rewards for that, there are more than a hundred quests in-game. These quests are not always IC but neither are Events and unlike the latter quests don't disrupt other people's roleplay so much.
As far as I know GMs use unique rewards that can't be gotten any other way to attract people. Personally I would like to see them use new settings material and interesting plots to attract people. Maybe it's been done and I just haven't noticed .. then I live in the wrong timezone. Anyway I have high hopes for events and GMs to make the world alive and more real and more interactive. My character is much more rewarded by seeing their god(dess) in the 'flesh' than by getting a simple wooden staff that realistically thinking should be widespread and affordable by even a farmer.
Events should be used to give the NPCs, government and gods a face among the players.
For example, Dakkru's appearance in the Death Realm. I won't go into detail here because I'd be providing spoilers but I do know that there were quite some events leading up to that happening, which is now written down in the historybooks. The guildhouse auctions, save for some unfortunate errors due to server lag, were also good event initiatives.
Aside from those more 'epic' events the rest of the eventing should be done casually in my opinion. Let Harnquist greet a customer and Allellia walk around her tavern cleaning tables from time to time. Make the NPCs come alive and this without rewards or other 'mob-magnets'. NPCs should be the same as players so ideally when an NPC shouts for help there shouldn't be a bigger response than when a player does the same.
Of course all that is my ideal view and probably won't be shared by the majority of players.
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I kinda skimmed this thread just to get the main point so if I repeat something that has already been said don't hit me :P
I'd say that I agree with Zan's last post the most. Having a different colored label I've learned is a valuable tool but only if used in the right situation. If there is an epic event going on, like that one with Eldoreth, the Octarch's guard, then the yellow label will help characters with OOC information. The Octarch's guard is someone who would be higher than the average person so other players should have their character notice. In this situation ooc stimulation isn't bad.
In an event when your just being asked of a simple task then I would say stick to normal colored labels. Like for the cleaning kran event, just helping someone find another gm isn't "epic" and shouldn't draw a huge crowd (I was not at this event, just heard about it so correct me if I'm wrong about the plot). Who ever decides to help should help and if no one does then one shouldn't feel the attempt a disappointment. People asking for help on such things like that should occur in an everyday rp world and so having people like that in the background helps stimulate rp in the environment.
Now, my disappointment with gm events isn't actually the event plots or the labels. Its the attention granted to other rpers. Yes I understand that you are one person and that its not easy for you to try and keep up with every person speaking in the channel. However, its evolved beyond simply not being able to deal with all the players at once. In the few events I've participated in recently I always try and stick to my character. Most of my characters are evil and usually only get involved when some kind of intresting item or power is held by the gm. Many times I attempt to stop the gm/event from preceding by attacking the gm etc. Whats the result? I'm ignored completely. In one of the last gm events I and another even tried to double team the gm. I'm not expecting to win. The most I expect being accomplished is being sent to DR on the spot and thats fine with me. However completely ignoring me just to continue on with the event kinda annoys me.
I'm not saying all gms do this or that they even do this purposely, its just what it seems like to me now a days. The only gm event I can really say I appreciated was the Eldoreth event. I played as my character Duraza and for the most part he stuck to petty insults. While not every one was acknowledged the gm role played his character. After insulting the Octarch enough he retaliated back by levitating me. Later on in that event I and two others attempted to attack him and another mage with them. Both retaliated and teleported us away. Did I mind losing? No, I loved the fact that I was not ignored just for the sake of continuing on with the event. It's all I really ask. Strike me dead and I'll be happy :P
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Caarrie, honestly, this should stay open. As far as we know, the GMs may not even have to introduce themselves - they'd be automatically known by everyone. I haven't even heard how they plan to implement the introduction system yet, since right now with the ideas currently posted it seems unlikely that it would work properly.
You are misinformed. Let me recap the Introduction system here:
-All NPCs will be known to the player.
-All players will be unknown to the player.
-All GMs will be known to the player.
-All GM event characters will be unknown to the player.
That's how it is in the latest code right now :)
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Ok. My turn...
I joined the GM team mostly to have the opportunity to organize events and I've thrown a good amount of them. In none of them have players been expected to go OOC to join. They are expected to roleplay and allow other players to enjoy the event as well.
We do our best to avoid problems during events but sometimes we can't help them, especially when players have the wrong idea about events to begin with. However, you can help prevent these problems if you take the following tips into account:
This is not the last event ever
- Sometimes it's better to sit this one out. Whether it is because there already are 10+ people involved or because they are half way through the event, sometimes we just need to let go and wait for the next event. There will be more as long as there are GMs. The same applies to events that do not fit your character. If you are criminal and the event is about delivering a love letter, you might want to wait for the next event. But this doesn't mean you cannot find a way to make a profit either. The same applies if your character is the embodiment of niceness and the task they are given is to slaughter 100 yulbars.
Listen and stay In-Character
- Most events nowadays contemplate potential outcomes for both good and evil characters (note that I'm using those terms to simplify). So if you wish to take advantage of the poor feller asking for help instead of doing what they need you to do, by all means go ahead, but that means that you have to listen. At some point of the event, a character or more will often give you a choice or open the door for your characters to take advantage of the situation. It is up to you to react IC and we always appreciate it when a character is consistently played. Of course, if you're the only baddie in a group of goodies, you'll need to outsmart them in order to get what you want.
Slow down
- Your IC entries will be mixed with tons of other entries and sometimes they will be missed. As you may know by experience when 5-10 people are speaking to you, it is hard to react to every single entry. Sudden actions don't work so well in events because the event's course is decided by the decisions made by the majority of the participants. If you try to do it on your own and leave the group behind, chances are the GM won't follow you. This means that, for example, if you decide to go talk to an npc, there won't be a GM impersonating them. Or that if you decide to attack the GM char, you won't be allowed to as long as the other players haven't had a chance to receive all the information that character has to give them so they can fulfill their part in the event. Unfortunately, we cannot help this. We try to please everyone but we must make sure no one is left behind too. Now, if you RP that same aggressiveness at a speed that includes the crowd so they too have time to react, it will succeed. A good example would be the way Semutara and Izzabella roleplayed in the event mentioned by Rennaj. They stayed IC all the way and they got their fight in the end, but they worked for it too and allowed others to react to their intentions.
Showing up is not enough
- A well written event is nothing if the players that get involved with it do not roleplay. I personally never register a player until their character specifically does or says something that shows their interest not only to me but for the entire group. Again, remember that you have to slow down. Being there, watching, is nothing. You're probably not going to be registered, not going to receive any rewards or experience because you did nothing to deserve them. And many events don't even have rewards so don't expect to get one every time. Finally, if you /tell your guildmates and buddies to hurry up and come to the event, don't forget to tell them that they have to roleplay their way in.
Feedback- You can always let us know if you are frustrated with an event and we'll be open to discuss what went wrong in your case. It is always upsetting to hear someone did not have fun because that is what we are here for: to enhance the players' experience. But keep in mind that events are not there to make you look cool and if you weren't allowed to steal the show or ignored the tips above, then you might want to change your approach because you are responsible for your frustration too. On the other hand if your entries were ignored in the swarm of things being said, using the character's name so your entry shows up in blue is a good idea. But save it for the stuff you *really* need the GM to see. Finally, we always appreciate it when happy customers let us know they enjoyed the event, even if they do criticize some things that could have gone better. It takes time and work to plan and host these events.
So, I hope that this will help you make the most out of our events. You can always ignore them but you would be missing out on a rich part of this game if you do, especially because we are working to make it so any character can be a part of them.
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Having only been around 2 GM events I can't attest to crowds of non-RPers, both events I witnessed, although there were more people about than usual, they were acting quite IC for the situation. (Can't attest to how IC they were for their normal RP, since I didn't know the characters... but they were playing the situation as I would expect.) My character is the type who's likely to investigate any crowd or commotion just out of curiosity, so it's easy to fit in. I certainly wasn't there for the reward, since I don't recall receiving any... But I suspect that without the label, neither event would have generated much action.
But I am puzzled by some of the responses about events affecting roleplay. Hydlaa is a city. Presumably, this city has more inhabitants than the handful actually visible wandering around at any given moment. In RealLife, I see spontaneous crowds form on a regular basis. Why? I don't know. GM event? Probably not. Free beer? One can hope. Britney Spears? I try to avoid papparazzi events. Regardless, the point is, it doesn't matter. The crowd formed, and no one asked me ahead of time what I thought about it. Did it ruin my life? No. I adapted that minor period of my life to deal with the unexpected event and moved on.
Roleplay should be equally flexible. Especially when the world you are RPing has magic. So you and your friends were sitting in Kada-El's when a crowd showed up and ruined your roleplay. Strangely enough, I find that taverns are crowd magnets. When I'm in a tavern, I EXPECT that to happen. Does it matter if its a GM event with a bunch of GM groupies running around, or a wedding party with a bunch of drunk obnoxious underaged second cousins running around. No, the end result is identical. Is it your tavern? No. The bartender sure isn't objecting! So if your roleplay is so inflexible as to be "ruined" by a crowd showing up, in a setting where a crowd is certainly not unexpected, I'd say that is a problem with your roleplay, not the crowd.
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- Your IC entries will be mixed with tons of other entries and sometimes they will be missed. As you may know by experience when 5-10 people are speaking to you, it is hard to react to every single entry. Sudden actions don't work so well in events because the event's course is decided by the decisions made by the majority of the participants. If you try to do it on your own and leave the group behind, chances are the GM won't follow you. This means that, for example, if you decide to go talk to an npc, there won't be a GM impersonating them. Or that if you decide to attack the GM char, you won't be allowed to as long as the other players haven't had a chance to receive all the information that character has to give them so they can fulfill their part in the event. Unfortunately, we cannot help this. We try to please everyone but we must make sure no one is left behind too. Now, if you RP that same aggressiveness at a speed that includes the crowd so they too have time to react, it will succeed.
Firstly I want to say I agree and that your rules do sound agreeable for gm events. They make a lot of sense.
The quoted portion above was something that happened to stick out to me though and made me think of a gm event I once participated in. In the event I was trying to kill the gm (not a surprise as it seems my only reason for coming) and found that he or she did not respond. What I did appreciate greatly was that many of the players involved tried to stop me. At first they were not able to but the GM still ignored my attack, though some of the other characters had turned their attention to what I was doing. After a bit my character was stopped by the others. What I'm saying here is not to go of on a rant or to say anyone is neglecting their job. Its to say that I hope these rules are enforced, not just said to quiet the fighting and only partially followed.
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Suggestion:
If GMs are emphasizing newbies to get into roleplay (although I read they arent doing so), why arent the rpers, who think GM events lack depths and sense (be it for the sake of newbies get into it more easily), go and sort of unofficially drag advanced newbies into more serious roleplay?
After all.. rewards? Leave them up to the newbies! A bucket can be roleplayed, no? Not that the latter though would encourage newbies to "also" roleplay with "common" chars.
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- Your IC entries will be mixed with tons of other entries and sometimes they will be missed. As you may know by experience when 5-10 people are speaking to you, it is hard to react to every single entry. Sudden actions don't work so well in events because the event's course is decided by the decisions made by the majority of the participants. If you try to do it on your own and leave the group behind, chances are the GM won't follow you. This means that, for example, if you decide to go talk to an npc, there won't be a GM impersonating them. Or that if you decide to attack the GM char, you won't be allowed to as long as the other players haven't had a chance to receive all the information that character has to give them so they can fulfill their part in the event. Unfortunately, we cannot help this. We try to please everyone but we must make sure no one is left behind too. Now, if you RP that same aggressiveness at a speed that includes the crowd so they too have time to react, it will succeed.
Firstly I want to say I agree and that your rules do sound agreeable for gm events. They make a lot of sense.
The quoted portion above was something that happened to stick out to me though and made me think of a gm event I once participated in. In the event I was trying to kill the gm (not a surprise as it seems my only reason for coming) and found that he or she did not respond. What I did appreciate greatly was that many of the players involved tried to stop me. At first they were not able to but the GM still ignored my attack, though some of the other characters had turned their attention to what I was doing. After a bit my character was stopped by the others. What I'm saying here is not to go of on a rant or to say anyone is neglecting their job. Its to say that I hope these rules are enforced, not just said to quiet the fighting and only partially followed.
Like stated in the part you quoted, if you attack an event character before they have fulfilled their mission in the event chances are you are not getting your way. Hopefully they will notice your entry and react in some way, that would be the best. For this I suggest making a few entries before the attack in the form of threats or IC insults, so that the GM can use that to ask the other players for help. If you attack out of the blue you give the GM the impression that you want to hijack the event and they won't allow it (the easiest way being ignoring it). I think there's a fair compromise in slowing down. That way what you do is more likely to have an impact in the event.
Suggestion:
If GMs are emphasizing newbies to get into roleplay (although I read they arent doing so), why arent the rpers, who think GM events lack depths and sense (be it for the sake of newbies get into it more easily), go and sort of unofficially drag advanced newbies into more serious roleplay?
After all.. rewards? Leave them up to the newbies! A bucket can be roleplayed, no? Not that the latter though would encourage newbies to "also" roleplay with "common" chars.
Events are for everyone, not only newbies and not only experienced players. I don't know where you get the impression that they are exclusive for one or the other. Also, being a newbie does not mean you don't know how to roleplay. As a matter of fact I remember you took part of one of my events along with a very new player and you both roleplayed like pros. She just needed to know what the heck "you've been registered for a GM event" meant.
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Suno, you've raised a lot of Valid points. Underthemoon and Dajoji and Proggy have mostly covered anything I would add to the discussion. Just please be aware that we do think about such things, and it is something we are working on. I hope to get back to event-ing in the not-too distant future (it's hard because of my timezone and current computer problems), and it will be my priority to keep things as IC as possible. Yes, the GM label suddenly making everyone interested in what is going on is pretty OOC. At the same time, without the label, chances are good that no one will be interested.
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No need to remind me of that event, Dajoji, that one was huge! And.. it didnt involve that tag=P Maybe a reason for why it wasnt that (over-)crowded? These days I think that coloring-option was rather new, and it gave me some hope events will be held in a similar way.
I am referring to Hanix:
People like you seem to forget that there are new players that are still learning RP and the game itself. When a yellow name appears they know its something special and taking part not only helps the learn to RP but what PS is all about.
and to this..
I just hope i dont see you taking part in any of the future events we host.
Taking that for granted, why isnt the given suggestion a way? At least as a nudge for the players to change mind about the topic a bit?
After all, your pevious post bares a whole lot of valid explanations and reasons, Dajoji (Sorry, read it after i wrote).
okay, maybe the more, involve people, as many as possible of them, but right due to that fact, also newer players will partake which makes it a bit of a mess, since the latter ones arent very familiar with the setting. What I would love to see is, plots officially played out to be closest to the setting as possible, and making sense (even with the rewards, if there are any at all!)
So take out the separation from my words, but make it an addition and an encouragement for more experienced players.
(And no, I never am against leaving out newer players who are eager to get into roleplaying)
One more note:
without the label, chances are good that no one will be interested.
I think, chances could be, if people are used to GMs dont use any obvious mark like the label, people may roleplay much more, like always staying ic, cos.. always a GM could await behind the corner.
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Have the label-less GM chars ever actually walked up to a player and asked for help? It could be that they're not within hearing range. Or the GM chars could use /shout instead of /say plus an exclamation mark...
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Have the label-less GM chars ever actually walked up to a player and asked for help? It could be that they're not within hearing range. Or the GM chars could use /shout instead of /say plus an exclamation mark...
and why would they use should or an exclamation mark? they are trying to be in character and those might not be something their type of char would use or do.
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Are you saying that no character should use an exclamation mark, or that all GM chars are extremely quiet?
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Are you saying that no character should use an exclamation mark, or that all GM chars are extremely quiet?
no i am saying each gm's event char acts differently and shouts and exclamation marks might not fit their char so it would ooc for them to do so just to get attention.
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walked up to a player and asked for help
Or the GM chars could use /shout instead of /say plus an exclamation mark...
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walked up to a player and asked for help
Or the GM chars could use /shout instead of /say plus an exclamation mark...
I really dont know why i try, people dont read what i say or listen to me, i give up.....
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It's just two suggestions. They can find any way to get help, but if they just say, "Help me... Oh, please, help me... Someone help," it's not gonna work, both IC and OOC.
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Trust me on this one, we've tried using player labels and it hasn't worked nearly as well. I prefer NPC labels myself or avoid event characters completely if possible by impersonating npcs. Maybe some people will join in thinking only about the reward but that's better than dragging one poor player for an hour while waiting for others to join and actually get the event started.
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Hm okay, perhaps not every sort of event would work actually.. that Levitation one was guided by sort of a note, or something unusual however.
Why not just doing both? Use the labels now and then for also getting masses in it, but "hidden" ones like that one as well?
After all that label-thing could work for spreading setting, as you would have a crowd to hear your word. These ones would probably have to be more linear and strictly guided in its plot. "Hidden" ones could be more variable and involving chars influence since you wouldnt have to give that many shoutings attention at once.
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[sorry for my english]
im shocked. first answer from GM-Hanix in this thread was so disapointing.
Suno came up with idea i find great - to not use yellow labels.
but then i read the answer:
"If you dont like it, dont take part, simple!" ???
yeah, Suno doesnt like it, but he cares.
and you Hanix, sound like you dont.
eh, life.
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Paranoia, please read at least some of the other posts here. Suno's 'idea' is not great or helpful.
The Yellow labels have their place and purpose as a tool, like a bullhorn. Anyone who says to get rid of the tool just because they don't like how it was used a few times is simply wrong.
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I think the green label won't solve the biggest issue. As soon as someone rp's with a green labeled guy and sees a "You have been registered for XYZ event" he will send out tells and the event will suffer in a same way as if the labels are yellow, red, blue, pink or any other label color you don't like. The labels aren't the problem, its the players reaction. And no label color will fix that.
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I think the green label won't solve the biggest issue. As soon as someone rp's with a green labeled guy and sees a "You have been registered for XYZ event" he will send out tells and the event will suffer in a same way as if the labels are yellow, red, blue, pink or any other label color you don't like. The labels aren't the problem, its the players reaction. And no label color will fix that.
Yeah i have a feeling that the same reaction is going to occur no matter what label color there is. People will inevitably call their guildies and friends and it would end up as a big mass anyways. I sort of feel like the large crowds issue is a personal player issue, whether or not to take offense by it. Personally, i recognize that the crowds will go along with a GM event, but it usually doesnt stop me from participating....i only like to do GM events though if i am there from the start. I dont really see the problem though, most people attempt to RP at least and if thats what it is encouraging then good, great! Just because their RP isnt necessarily up to the standards of certain people, doesnt mean the whole event is a dud. Just because you might not be happy, doesnt mean that the other 20 or so people arent having a blast, and working together.
I think it was Hanix that mentioned it was about the community and I agree, the crowds might not be fun to all, but then it is your choice whether or not to participate and maybe wait for a smaller scale event....and yes there ARE smaller events, because i have been a part of several. I also feel that while the reward may be the initial incentive to take part, these events are INTERESTING, and most people are going to get drawn in and participate out of interest to the plot, no matter what their initial reasoning to join was. So the end result is a large crowd who joined OOC, but who inevitably becomes involved IC...is that so bad??
Sorry if this is a little fragmented in logic and grammar...its really early and im not exactly the perfect picture of coherency yet.
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Paranoia, please read at least some of the other posts here. Suno's 'idea' is not great or helpful.
The Yellow labels have their place and purpose as a tool, like a bullhorn. Anyone who says to get rid of the tool just because they don't like how it was used a few times is simply wrong.
i read all of them in this topic.
and i didnt write, that this idea is great. i write - i find it great.
i know i could be wrong, this is posible, as i am only paranoia, and not Hanix. :P
if i understand right, there was only problem with yellow labels in GM event.
noone wanted to get rid of yellow labels, there was just idea to not use them in GM RP events.
I think the green label won't solve the biggest issue. As soon as someone rp's with a green labeled guy and sees a "You have been registered for XYZ event" he will send out tells and the event will suffer in a same way as if the labels are yellow, red, blue, pink or any other label color you don't like. The labels aren't the problem, its the players reaction. And no label color will fix that.
it is not perfect, but at least someone noticed, that there is something wrong with the GM RP events. and not using yellow labels is a very good start. dont you think, that solving "you have benn registered.." issue, but leaving special label for GM, will have no effect?
i like the discusion, and because i like to discuse, im disapointed with the GM answer "dont like it, dont take a part".
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Just stating this:
I figured the label colors were the only way people really knew it was a GM event, but now I guess it's a number of things. If there's morphing, event registration, worldshouts, or anything else like that, it's a GM event. If people know it's affiliated with the GMs in any way, then there's gonna be a mob of people crowded around.
When I first made this thread, it was directed at the fact that it's really obvious when there is or isn't a GM event, and I figured labels to be the main cause of that. But now, I think if they really want the best RP results from the community, they should stop using all of the functions listed above and treat it like a normal event, then possibly give some flashy reward at the end -by surprise-. This would encourage people to roleplay with everyone else that has a green label, and if they're not a begging person, they'll learn roleplay since they were sort of "forced" to do it with the overall community.
Also, I'm sure we can do better than things like Cleaning Kran. The event yesterday, with the rogues abducting Jomed, was ok at best, but there were still many flaws in it.
One: I saw one of the GMs earlier that was playing as a rogue, and he forgot to change his description from "a simple barman".
Two: Jomed's name was spelled wrong as "Jommed"
Three: Blue labels used once more, causing a bunch of people to crowd around and spam things in caps and whatnot
Four: They all move around like a flock of birds. One person says "lets go hydlaa now" and the mob runs off all in the same direction
I just think that if they knew things like this wasn't a GM event, all of these normally uninterested people wouldn't be there, and the ones who are doing the event for real RP reasons would be able to have a little fun. There's absolutely nothing I can do in a mob as big as that, so I'm starting to just overlook these things to keep from hearing all of the random bad grammar usages and whatnot.
Side note: blue labels are used in GM events, not yellow ones.
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Registered events could be usefull for 'questnotes', but other then that there's not much use. then maybe if there were more frequent events, these 'gold rush' action wouldnt happen. Aye there's the rub!, since everyone seems to want to take part in events, but i rarely see people wanting to organise any. Well, except the ones I purposely ignore because it's the same old similar overpowered superheroe/supervillain crap RP.
Oh and a word of warning. If you're planning on doing any 'serious' RP tomorrow in the tavern, Vinefera's having his bacherlor party, so you might get beer and pie all over you should we end up there, wich I hope won't ruin your plans for world domination.
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Two: Jomed's name was spelled wrong as "Jommed"
right now it is IMPOSSIBLE to have 2 chars npcs or not with the same name so there will always be misspelling if they are not impersonating the npc, so i dont consider that an issue at all unless there is some easier way for gms to get around this issue.
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:innocent: Me Again, here is a few more facts for you to think about.
GMs can not change NPC names, also they can not posses one. So we are left with impersonate, voice or remove the NPC and replace with a similar named GM alto.
The GM is only a person same as you, every one of you think and act different, so we try to allow for these differences. WE never pander to a set type of Role play, WE also never enforce you to Role play, WE will try to encourage you to.
Events for me is a small part of what I do. But I do love to try and help in events. A lot of hard work goes into preparing for one, first you have to decide what you want to do, then you check through all possible sources of settings, [NPC descriptions/chat with them][read any in game books] now this is not as easy as it sounds, GMs do not know more than you. we have signed no agreement, so we are not given new info, to game, we in fact most times know when you know. Here is were you think what if, and try to think of different posable ending.
Then it is put to paper, SENT to Talad, He says yes or no, and if yes will most times point out a few things to put right.
Now you have to pick locations and in some cases place objects, gather a team, set a time, most times it is decided on day what and when.
So I hope now you understand event are not a spur of moment thing.
Your own words suno. I get pretty sick of it fast. There's no reason why eighty people would care more about, say, a Kran shirking his duties, than someone being abducted and nearly murdered. I repeat in that event "5 participants and an audience of 20 for the final battle."
So please get your facts right.
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a quick reply to something Zan said GM's dont have access to unreleased settings material it is only given for a specific reason so we cant use events to disseminate new information. We work with the same info available IG and have to find it the same as players do
ok and a few other points that sprung to mind while typing.
The Jomed event was put together to explain Jomeds disappearance from a bug not a regular type event.
It is very rare to get more than 30 people registered in an event without prior build up.
@Raa depending on the event yes I do walk up to players and ask for help without shouting etc. Although if my house was on fire I don't think I'd be calmly walking up to people asking politely for aid.
and ultimately alot of people probably a large majority of players join events for what ever reason so we must be doing something a lot of people like.
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... but there were still many flaws in it.
One: I saw one of the GMs earlier that was playing as a rogue, and he forgot to change his description from "a simple barman".
Two: Jomed's name was spelled wrong as "Jommed"
Three: Blue labels used once more, causing a bunch of people to crowd around and spam things in caps and whatnot
Four: They all move around like a flock of birds. One person says "lets go hydlaa now" and the mob runs off all in the same direction
One: Tiny error happens. Stop nit picking
Two: Technical reasons
Three: That happens when in a large group every one wants the get the most attention
Four: Watch people in real life. They also move like flock of birds. Where is the problem?
Its easy to nit pick on events when you never have organized such big events. The attention seeking pseudo rp is a problem, but if you want to prove your point then organize an event. The reward yesterday was 500 tria if I remember correct. So with 20k to 30k you can host a similar event. If that event goes better you can tell here how to organize events and how not.
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I just think that if they knew things like this wasn't a GM event, all of these normally uninterested people wouldn't be there, and the ones who are doing the event for real RP reasons would be able to have a little fun. There's absolutely nothing I can do in a mob as big as that, so I'm starting to just overlook these things to keep from hearing all of the random bad grammar usages and whatnot.
Maybe it is because you're just not trying. Even in mobs like that there are always a few characters that stand out and that is because of their RP. I doubt this is beyond your skills. And actually, not all events end up having 80+ participants. In fact, only a few of them do. So chances are you'll bump into smaller events more often than you think. My advice is do not jump into conclusions. Listen to the characters and see if a) the event is fitting for your character (and if it isn't it's nobody's fault); and b) if there is a chance for your character to do the greater evil (and there usually is).
It is not about how an event is written because they all have certain flexibility to allow multiple outcomes. It's about how you react to them. Players are the most important element in any event. What they put out is a major factor in its quality and that is something we cannot control. We just do our best so anyone interested in the event has a chance to enjoy it.
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Since I never could notice that, but I find it rather interesting and worth to be repeated:
they [GM events] all have certain flexibility to allow multiple outcomes.
I always felt quite a bit like it wouldnt matter what players decide to do for the result, but it of course could be due to players usually just do what GMs tell them in an event (apparently without thinking much, concerning their chars' actual personality).
Example:
Apparently honest and honorable chars all of a sudden agree to assassinate a random target, given by a known outlaw.
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Most events nowadays are done so any character could get involved and affect their outcome with their RP. Again, you need to slow down so you can have a real impact and influence the group that is involved with the event. All the events I throw always have that chance or simply do not require any good or bad deeds at all.
Many players, however, will stick to being heroes and never really explore the evil side. What happens more often is that in a group of six, only one is interested in the low path and can't do much. But that's life. Again, it's a player issue.
That is why I advice always considering if the quest you are given really fits your character or if they use an angle so they stay true to themselves. For example, you may agree to join the party that is going to assassinate someone with the intention of rescuing them or sabotaging their attempts. Also, feel free to ask the GM OOC (/tell) if there is another team forming up that has the opposite task, assault/rescue missions often come in pairs.
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a quick reply to something Zan said GM's dont have access to unreleased settings material it is only given for a specific reason so we cant use events to disseminate new information. We work with the same info available IG and have to find it the same as players do.
I see, that is unfortunate. Well then I hope that in the future settings and GMs see the benefits of working together for events then.
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Settings and GMs work together. We just don't have access to all the information because we are not developers. However, we can always ask, the same way settings and other development teams turn to us when they need an event to say release new content (like a new creature like the tloke, for example) or see the potential around bug fixes to entertain players (like Jomed's recent disappearance).
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Ohh, ok then I still see my hopes possibly being realized more often :P Of cours you wouldn't get access to all of the settings material but I do understand that the initiative needs to come from Settings itself, approved by Talad of course. Then you GMs can work on an event ... well as long as it happens I might still join an Event some day.
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In my opinion, The solution is adding 'evil' events. Where players might lose money/items/stats.
People would think twice before entering an event, And will double check the character that starts the event.
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heh that's a good idea. We have run events designed for 'Evil' characters before. And I was pleasantly surprised when many players with 'Good' characters opted out, because it was not IC for them.
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I designed and helped run all of the Crystal Eclipse events (the ones for the last client update). Weeks of planning went into those events, and days of pre-setup and plot building. Hours went into final setup, prep, positioning, and rehearsal. Yellow labels were used as well a Green, depending on the need and situation. Shouts, worldshouts, tells, groups, and system messages were all used as well. The event feature was used in some cases, not in others, also dependant on the need. Pretty much every trick in the GM handbag was used to its maximum potential; porting, morphing, renaming, sliding, giving and taking items from players, and even the worlddeath command (followed by the death command).
I can not tell you how proud I am of the GMs, players, Devs, and prospects who took part. Everyone did excellent!
Why do I bring this up? For the simple fact that if any ONE of those GM tools were not there to use, those events would have been far harder to pull off. I shudder to think of how they would have gone without the non-green labels. I even use them in small events when needed. Sometimes they ARE needed.
Those of you that are saying not to use some of these tools simply do not understand what it takes to make events. I have run events as a player as well (the Un-Common Cold and several smaller ones) and it is incredibly hard to do without the aid of the GM tools.
Yes, mistakes have been made. Yes, tools have been misused on occasion. You know what I have to say to that? SUCK IT UP! Quit whining about it. Non of us are professionals. No one gets paid to do these things full time and become experts. Mistakes WILL happen. I have made them, you have made them. And frankly, until you have helped design and run a few GM events, YOU do NOT have the insight to "Know what the problem is." and know how to fix it.
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Everyone who ever set up any event involving other players, thus some factor x, knows that always minor issue will occur. Nothing worth to be mentioned.
UtM, that Eclipse event with also Jardet in his garden? In my eyes it was rather obvious that this whole thing, many different simultaneous spots of action, everything interwoven, was very well figured out.
But in the Magic Garden there was also Xiosia sort of publically introduced. Actually thats what I meant with using GM events to make people know about the setting, or at least make proper use of it.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "make proper use of it [the settings]". All events are reviewed by Talad and discussed among the GMs that are going to throw it so it's very difficult to let something outside settings slip.
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Hm.. perhaps its not a complete setting thing but a mix of also sense.
I think of meant to be very poor miners who have plenties of platinum stocks to give away without knowing what are they good for (okay, that rewards were mostly ooc was already mentioned), or that clacker spellcaster evildoing in Hydlaa unnoticed by any guards.
Of course I have to say explicitly that I partook some other events as well that left me quite satisfied in terms of sense and stuff!
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I always try to stay IC, GM event or not. I took part in some GM events, never got a reward. The following example shows my (evil) char's behaviour during one event.
(21:11:42) >Cleaning Kran raises an arm and points towards Orgonwukh.
(21:11:47) Cleaning says: I clean armor?
(21:12:13) Orgonwukh frowns "Don't touch my armor, mate. I can handle that myself."
(21:12:22) Cleaning says: Yes ser
(21:12:32) Cleaning looks at Orgonwukh, as if waiting for a tip
(21:12:53) Orgonwukh chuckles "What now?"
(21:12:56) Izzabella smirks
(21:13:05) Cleaning stares at Orgonwukh
(21:13:38) Orgonwukh looks at Cleaning "Not very bright, eh?"
[...]
(21:17:15) Anonymous says: I have a battle hammer to be cleaned. How many tria do you take for that?
(21:17:32) Cleaning turns to Zwenze "2 coins only!"
(21:18:01) Anonymous nods and gives cleaning a Battlle hammer and two circles
(21:18:33) Cleaning looks at the circles and frowns "No give me bad money"
(21:19:24) Cleaning says: I only green coins
(21:19:29) Cleaning says: Gold coins not want
(21:19:38) Orgonwukh bursts out laughing
(21:19:57) Orgonwukh says: You can give those gold coins to me, kran. I give you two green for one gold coin, eh?
I left this event when the cleaning kran said he was hungry and about 30 guys were running and brining him various meals, crystals and ores to eat.
As I said, I never got any reward from any GM event I took part. So I have two choices:
1. Stay IC and get frustrated because of the OOC behaviour of other players. And in the end I get no reward for my RP, but they get some for whatever they did.
2. Avoid GM events as some of you have already proposed.
I tried 1. for a long time, but in the end I ended up with 2.
I know it requires a lot of work and patience to set those events up and I do not want to complain only here. So my only proposal is to not reward players anymore with items or money. Maybe there could be something like a 'roleplay fraction'. You could reward participants for their roleplay efforts. Maybe this fraction could be visible to everyone, so if I look at someone's description, I could easily recognise people who have proved that they know how to roleplay nicely. People maybe would try to improve that fraction to get respect from other players and by giving negative points for OOC behaviour, we could also identify 'black sheep'.
Oh, there might be another solution for me:
3. Create a 'goodie goodie' alt and log him when I regognise an event is running ;)
... reconsidering... No, because:
It's good to be bad :P
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How many player events do you skip out on because there is not a reward for baddies, or goodies for that matter? I like to design events where entertainment is the reward... And sometimes the reward is beating the GM in whatever plot they have planned, good or bad.
I don't like to pull punches when it comes to bad effects that come from a series of actions, and am not afraid to skip rewards entirely. Only a few people knew this at the time, but at the time of my Un-Common Cold RP a few years back, I was privately talking to a few Devs. Why? *evil grin* To wipe the system if the plague was not cured. Luckily, it did not come to that. The 'Reward' for that one was what few belongings the evildoer had on him at the time of capture.
Frankly, players are spoiled. Most think they have nothing really to gain or lose by skipping out on GM events besides a magic staff. Honestly, they are right. I would very much like to see dire consequences for failure... And /tell and /guild muting for anyone near the GMs or in the event. ;)
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/tell and /guild mute are a great idea, for these sorts of occasions. That would be very useful. Don't forget /group mute.
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In my opinion, The solution is adding 'evil' events. Where players might lose money/items/stats.
People would think twice before entering an event, And will double check the character that starts the event.
To tell the truth I would love this. As I mentioned before most of the times I run into GM events with some evil plot in mind but I'm never looking for an actual reward. I gave up on caring about rewards and rare items a long time ago though my characters are still greedy. All I ever expect oocly is to get killed or something. I'd love it if there were gm events in which the players got tricked. I think that would solve just about every problem. Have a gm asking for cash from players to use in some "great plan" and tell them they will get a reward just to blast them all to DR with some spell and log out laughing. Tell players you are looking for ingredients for a potion that would make them super powerful only for them to take a sip and have their stats cut for hours. It would make events so much more of an IC choice.
Another thing is something that I believe has been mentioned before in another thread (That whole Risk and Reward thread by UTM). If your giving out rare items make there be an actual risk. Something that would make someone think twice about going through an event. I think doing these things would totally quiet anyone's negative opinions of gm events. I know I've held a few player events and I always try and prepare a reward. However I love making there be a big risk. I love making sure that my characters put themselves at risk to get what they want. It makes rping so much more realistic to me.
I'm sure there are probably plans for things like this already but guess it doesn't hurt to mention it :P
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In my opinion, The solution is adding 'evil' events. Where players might lose money/items/stats.
People would think twice before entering an event, And will double check the character that starts the event.
Excellent suggestion, me likey.
Yes, mistakes have been made. Yes, tools have been misused on occasion. You know what I have to say to that? SUCK IT UP! Quit whining about it. Non of us are professionals. No one gets paid to do these things full time and become experts. Mistakes WILL happen. I have made them, you have made them. And frankly, until you have helped design and run a few GM events, YOU do NOT have the insight to "Know what the problem is." and know how to fix it.
I've never had any trouble helping to create player run events and only once really needed GM help. I also know how difficult it is to run a good GM event and that mistakes are indeed easily made, even by the best people. But I do think we have reason to whine about it. :P This thread might not have started out so well because of some people taking things personal but I like where it is going now .. a healthy discussion. I started out on one side and rignt now I'm in the middle because of good arguments from the other side. If only one person from that other side thinks the same then I'm happy already.
If people stop whining, you guys can stop improving and nobody wants that. ;)
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GMs can certainly tell when an event works and when it doesn't and we take note so those mistakes can be corrected. Whining is not the only way to point out the flaws. There is a difference between being critical about something and having arguments to support their position and another one to just whine because they didn't get what they want. The latter tends to come wrapped in misinformation. I believe this thread started out with a mix of both (criticism based on an honest but misinformed opinion) and as it evolved it put on the table enough information so that players can make the most out of their event experiences, and we needed that.
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Er... ya. Sorry about the whining comment. For the record, I did not see your posts as 'whining', Zan. They were well thought out. It is the little short ones with hardly any thought put into them at all besides not liking how a few events were done that put me in a bad mood.
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How many player events do you skip out on because there is not a reward for baddies, or goodies for that matter?
None. You can see that from the my proposal to never give any item or money reward.
It is just frustrating to see other players who go OOC and are rewarded, while you stay IC and get nothing.
*edit*
/tell and /guild mute are a great idea, for these sorts of occasions. That would be very useful. Don't forget /group mute.
I fear in this case there will pop up a lot of IRC channels which will do the same job :-\
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If other players annoy you with their lack of consistency, then it's not a problem GMs can solve. And let me point again that if you stay in character, you have to make sure that your actions are slow enough so that not only can they be picked up by the GM but also by the group. You are not roleplaying one on one with the event character so you have to set your action speed to affect not one, but all the characters. It's a fair compromise that allows everyone to have a chance to react. If you got tired and left the event before your actions could make an impact, then no, you're probably not even going to get registered in the event, much less get a reward.
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This was just an example. I took part in many events as I said, and completed most of them.
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We have prepared a number of "mundane" events that are simple but effective as chance to RP and without huge rewards or rewards at all.
Nowadays we also try to run "surprise" events without GM label, so players are only notified at the end that they were in an event and are rewarded.
For both we yet need to gather experience and get to know the things to avoid.
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Yeah, I heard about that Kerol. Good job. :)
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We have prepared a number of "mundane" events that are simple but effective as chance to RP and without huge rewards or rewards at all.
Nowadays we also try to run "surprise" events without GM label, so players are only notified at the end that they were in an event and are rewarded.
For both we yet need to gather experience and get to know the things to avoid.
Sounds very interesting and promising. I hope it will work and you won't get stuck with only one or two players. I am curious about if/how it will work.
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Another new idea is to use the instancing of the maps to "uncrowd" those events that aren't supposed to be mass-events but attract many people so people don't get the "why are 50 people here trying to get a flower for this poor old lady?"-feeling again.
But for this we'll probably require at least one new command to make things smooth and (again) gather experiences.
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Kerol, I love you. :P
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Kerol, I love you.
Not sure if that's a good thing :P
The instancing thing however really is a new approach (tested the possibility yesterday) and nothing that was thought of in the earlier posts.
While I suspect new problems coming with the introduction system (and new opportunities as well) I'm sure the problems stated here can be resolved in future by combining future engine capabilities and cooperation with settings dept.
In future it may also be possible to combine quests and events somehow and entwine both, specifically for "epic" events, which would target the "an evil char shouldn't help a blind guy over the street for a reward"-problem.
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Well to be honest with you, instancing seemed like an impossible idea. Guess I was wrong, though. :P
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Well to be honest with you, instancing seemed like an impossible idea
Well, on one hand we don't want to mess with realism (world consistancy etc.) on the other we don't want to mess with realism (a mass of people trying to help a damsel in troubles) so it's a question of balance when instancing is a viable approach.
Other than that I don't understand why it would be impossible?
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Well, just to me anyway, it seemed that movable lights is more doable than instancing. But I'm not good when it comes to things like this, so...yeah. :P
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Instances are implemented pretty well since some time already. Tutorial i.e. creates an instanced map the moment a new char enters the world which works without problems.
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But that's an instanced -map-. I didn't really know you could instance controlled areas.
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The instancing thing however really is a new approach (tested the possibility yesterday) and nothing that was thought of in the earlier posts.
While I suspect new problems coming with the introduction system (and new opportunities as well) I'm sure the problems stated here can be resolved in future by combining future engine capabilities and cooperation with settings dept.
In future it may also be possible to combine quests and events somehow and entwine both, specifically for "epic" events, which would target the "an evil char shouldn't help a blind guy over the street for a reward"-problem.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I thought of the idea first :P
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But that's an instanced -map-. I didn't really know you could instance controlled areas.
Once you are in an instance of one map you enter the same instance of all other maps that are connected with this one.
So basically the whole world is instanced once you switched, except the maps you're entering by special means (tutorial, DR etc).
Sorry to disappoint you, but I thought of the idea first
I said this in regard of the posts in this thread, not globally. I haven't seen these ideas in this thread mentioned before, but if I'm wrong, sorry.
Btw, we already had one event that used the instancing of a map (hydlaa_plaza) as plot element few weeks ago. I just think we can use this means specifically to "uncrowd" events if necessary.
On a sidenote: An everlasting item on our GM wishlist is to control NPCs directly as character for events which would help again in making events look more spontaneous and fit better into settings, but until this is implemented I can truely resort to the infamous "soon(tm)(c)(r)".
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http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=225
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Uh... hello there. I just wanted to say that GM events i've participated (maybe 3 or 4 only) have been great and in each one I've had the choice of playing it out as my char would do it. My char was 'good' when I started playing and I participated in the Plague event where I was given vaccines to hand out to people and the RP was fully working with no one waiting for an award (and nobody got one I think). The people were just glad to recieve the vaccine so they wouldn't die. Then another event took place in the tavern with me (still a 'good' person but maybe a bit greedier) and Morila (outlaws) fighting over something when a little creature walked in and was happy to see us. Thorian had lost it and offered 2000 trias if we gave it back (he wanted to skin the little bastard). I thought I might sell it to him but Morila who hated people generally seemed to have her heart warmed by the little feller and said she'd stab me if I sold it to Thorian. I swallowed my greed and told Thorian I wouldn't agree to sell it as it was really cute after all. The little creature skipped along towards BD and we followed guarding it from further harm. Later we learned it was an Ulber cub and the Ulbermom glad to see its cub 'showed' us a place where some hunters had been killed and we got to loot them. (we didn't expect a reward as no actual persons were involved in this it was just pure fun). third event I can remember was the crystal eclipse. The good guys were having a party in the secret garden and surely they weren't expecting any reward for having a party... (or were they?) Me (now having evolved to a darker char) heard the calling for another event taking place at the same time but no goodguys were there. Here is the only time we expected a reward as evil and greedy people often do... we got sent out on missions, ruined the goodguys party, got sent to DR, got our souls sacrificed, got betrayed, sent to Oja to witness the horrors taking place and got sent back to DR (most players got NO rewards). Crystal Eclipse was the bestestestest event ever and I came out empty handed but feeling more excited than ever. The point was: you need not to get rewards for an event to be good, you can have the awards implemented into the story and you can play as your char would do it... or did I just get lucky?(also these events had no problem with masses gathering around being OOC). Thanks GMs, I'll be kissing some more ass in the near future in hope of getting maybe a 'Bones Opal Encrusted Spidersilk Dark Steel Dagger of Blinding Strike Q300½' ;D ...or maybe I'll just enjoy the events... ::|
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I've heard about some GM events recently, but since february I did not see any in-game. I just would like to know if I just miss them because of my specific online time. How many where there since then? When?
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About 15 since February, about 1 each week since then, fairly well distributed.
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Wow, I must be either running around blind or I just have bad luck ???
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I had no idea there were so many either... I must be in the entirely wrong timezone.
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iv been playing over 2 years-ish and iv taken part in about 1 for 5 minutes before i had to go witch is kinda annoying.
iv never seen any other than that.
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Did ya know players can make things happen on their own too? Especially if a few work together ::)
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Events are usually done with 5-15 participants most of the time and they normally take at least one hour. Most events span for three to five hours. That ensures that whatever happens during the event, all participants get a chance to RP and affect the outcome with their choices. We try to host them as often as possible but there are several factors to consider and it's not always possible.
If you're looking for an event to join, try this one (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32924.0).
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Most events span for three to five hours.
What - the game can run for that long without crashing or freezing the PC? Or the server going down? Not for me. :( Guess events are not made for me then. So I'll stick to questing.
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Oh, don't get me wrong: most of the times we have at least one server crash. Don't let those limitations get in the way of your RP.
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If you're looking for an event to join, try this one (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32924.0).
I don't get you, Dajoji. How can I join that without knowing when and where it will happen. With about 2 hours daily online time and the huge area of Yliakum, I think it is very unlikely to take part in an event by chance. The fact that I did not see any event IG since months is the proof.
Events are usually done with 5-15 participants most of the time and they normally take at least one hour. Most events span for three to five hours. That ensures that whatever happens during the event, all participants get a chance to RP and affect the outcome with their choices. We try to host them as often as possible but there are several factors to consider and it's not always possible.
A group of 5-15 is too small in my opinion taking into account the number of online players. I started playing PS and after months I was surprised that a thing like a GM event exists. I know you don't want to announce GM event in advance. But maybe you could do an IC worldshout 30 minutes before it starts?
@zan: I know. I am just curious about what changed in the GM events. Or are you saying they are not worth taking part in? :P
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If you're looking for an event to join, try this one (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32924.0).
I don't get you, Dajoji. How can I join that without knowing when and where it will happen. With about 2 hours daily online time and the huge area of Yliakum, I think it is very unlikely to take part in an event by chance. The fact that I did not see any event IG since months is the proof.
At least the place is clear: sewers and maybe plaza if the scared tefus and rats come out again :innocent:
*Morla slowely passes her paw over the damp sewer wall then turns back around to face her companions "They are watching us."
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I know you don't want to announce GM event in advance. But maybe you could do an IC worldshout 30 minutes before it starts?
Good god no. It is bad enough that they have to wear silly coloured tags but announcing to the entire world where the silly coloured tag is and that you will shortly be able to claim a huge reward from it is absurd. And what is an IC worldshout anyway? 'You sense that a man at the gates of Hydlaa needs some help'?
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I know you don't want to announce GM event in advance. But maybe you could do an IC worldshout 30 minutes before it starts?
Good god no. It is bad enough that they have to wear silly coloured tags but announcing to the entire world where the silly coloured tag is and that you will shortly be able to claim a huge reward from it is absurd. And what is an IC worldshout anyway? 'You sense that a man at the gates of Hydlaa needs some help'?
The same things that were announced in Dajoji's forum thread could have been announced in-game. Since we don't have NPCs who could announce it, a world-shout should do it instead. Of course, it would be nicer to see an NPC in every town, unfolding a scroll and shouting news at the crowds. But we can only use what we have. And a worldshout in-game is better than a forum post, and even more IC in my opinion.
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The same things that were announced in Dajoji's forum thread could have been announced in-game. Since we don't have NPCs who could announce it, a world-shout should do it instead. Of course, it would be nicer to see an NPC in every town, unfolding a scroll and shouting news at the crowds. But we can only use what we have. And a worldshout in-game is better than a forum post, and even more IC in my opinion.
That said, it would be simple for settings to have the guards mention official events when people walk past them, but only things that the guards would actually know, of course.
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To have appropriate NPCs mention things like that sounds quite fancy to me, although I am not sure how much trouble is it to adjust NPCs' saying/the database each time? About the current "Stampede (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32924.0)", just picture NPCs like Percival, Finara or Jef could give infos, especially after that played guard dwarf during one of the events told the people the guards will keep the citizens updated. I think that would be pretty cool and could add greatly to atmosphere and give NPCs more meaning.
I agree though, a Worldshout may appear quite a bit disturbing, even if Org brought up some valid (but maybe wild) interpretation of such an approach.
However, to have these forums here that tightly linked to ingame events I just dont like. People and atmosphere ingame are rather different to the forums, quite some people I know dont come here to at least read at all, neither I do frequently anymore.
Bring stuff to the game! :P
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I am wondering tangentially whether the GMs who are having these events are keeping track of who participates and what portion of the player-base the participants represent. If the participants are heavily weighted to one group of players regardless of the particular characters involved then an effort should be made to include more players. I cannot say if this might be the case and am speaking theoretically. I am specifically not accusing the GM team of any favoritism as even if it were indeed the case that it was the same players it could be despite the GMs best efforts. All I am asking is if statistics are being kept and if not could they be.
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When we start an event we try to include anyone who randomly comes about. It might be feasible to keep lists, but currently we don't have this.
Most often we just choose the event we want to do, the appropriate location and then try to work with who's in the area without preference.
Worldshouts are only useful and realistic in the least occasions.
The idea with NPCs announcing events is feasible and might be actually a good intermediate solution.
I've been trying for a long time to get announcement boards for all different things ingame. I think that would be the ideal substitution for the forum announcement stuff.
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How often do you reuse character names? Is it possible some people are being notified because they have your event personas on their buddy list? This would seem to give them an unfair advantage, not a big one as they would still need to locate you but not insignificant either. Is it possible to prevent them from buddying up, so to speak? Alternatively perhaps publish a list of notable GM/npc's that only appear when something is going on so that everyone has the same chance. Me, I do not much care for all the fancy stuff that may be given out but others might, even if it is unusable and just ornamental. I just like things to be fair.
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:offtopic: I know that this was started as a way to inform the forum users about the current event and it has turned into a discussion on how better it could be mediated, I have one question though what's the event's part in your quest logs for if it isn't auto updated by some means? Like being in the right place you hear the 'news' and it is added to the event list. Just a question for I have not seen any use for it yet.
So far I like the way the event is being played out they have scripted it in such a way that it sowly involves much of what yliakum is including the more obscure religions.
Good on ya GM team
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Since I don't want to post OOC comments in the "[Event] Stampede!" (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32924.0) thread, I decided to put it here.
[Will the creatures be exterminated? Is there a way to coexist with them? Will a species be wiped off the face of Yliakum? What is behind the mysterious attacks? Join us today (Sunday, July 20 at 21:00GMT) and find out!]
I'm very impressed by the efforts you make to improve the experience for everyone :thumbup:
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Prolix: The new policy is to not give out rewards in the form of items or tria (unless specifically called for) in events. The entertainment of the events themselves should be considered the 'reward'. How often do you get a prize for reading a book or watching a movie? ;)
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I think not giving a reward is pretty good. Let people just focus on roleplaying and having fun with it, instead of worrying whether they missed something, are on the wrong side or even missed getting the reward at the end. If there was a way to give select rewards to characters the GMs feel did a good job in roleplaying, though, doesn't have to be something big, maybe even just a mention, or a parade or holiday in their name (just kidding), that may give some incentive to try to stay in character? That type of effort may be best for the community to support, though. Someday, if there is ever a way to fix the lag, the event may move along more movie/book script-ishly, force everyone's settings down somehow maybe?
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I think not giving a reward is pretty good. Let people just focus on roleplaying and having fun with it, instead of worrying whether they missed something, are on the wrong side or even missed getting the reward at the end. If there was a way to give select rewards to characters the GMs feel did a good job in roleplaying, though, doesn't have to be something big, maybe even just a mention, or a parade or holiday in their name (just kidding), that may give some incentive to try to stay in character? That type of effort may be best for the community to support, though. Someday, if there is ever a way to fix the lag, the event may move along more movie/book script-ishly, force everyone's settings down somehow maybe?
Not much to say, other than, that was perfect. I fully agree with that idea.
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With our "normal" events, we do give experience and rewards sometimes since it's easier to keep track of participants and how they roleplay. Rewards are also based on their choices and reactions to what we throw at them. In bigger events, like the one we recently had to introduce the riverlings, it is a bit more difficult to follow what everyone does and if we reward a few and forget others then there would be A LOT of complaining. In general though, players shouldn't join the events just for the rewards but because they fit their characters and their purpose. So if you join an event, expect entertainment, not rewards. You'll have more fun that way.
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Prolix: The new policy is to not give out rewards in the form of items or tria (unless specifically called for) in events.
Great :D