PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: kiaerulf on April 16, 2008, 03:45:35 am
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Well, this is a really hot topic at the moment. But i want something clarified:
Imagine you are walking alone slowly towards Hydlaa from the platinum mine without anyone being nearby. Suddenly someone comes running up to up and says this in main and tells:
<example>
"/me sneaks up on XXX without a noise and stabs his daggers into your spine and kills you instantly while covering your mouth."
/trade XXX
/tell [sorry mate, you have just been killed and robbed. Hand me your inventory and trias and accept the challenge and let yourself get killed.]
/challenge XXX
"/me looks around and sees that this was not noticed by anyone"
"/me quickly grabs XXXs bags and trias and disappears without a trace and fast as the wind."
</example>
[edit: After that you claim that nobody could possible have noticed since noone was around and you covered your tracks by killing the only witness (read: the vitim) and dead people can't possible talk so noone would have no chance to find you]
What would you do in a situation like this?
Is this an acceptable way of RP'ing?
What do the high ups think about this? Do you like this kind of RP? Is this what you intended to happen IG?
[edit: this is not unlikely to happen in RL]
- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
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Well firstly this
<example>
"/me sneaks up on XXX without a noise and stabs his daggers into your spine and kills you instantly while covering your mouth."
is generally looked down upon for the lack of responses that can be given. First rule of RP I learned was to give other people a chance to respond. As for the rest of it. If the first part is invalidated then the rest is too.
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/me yells "FOUL!" and tosses a yellow flag.
Sorry, but that is very out of line. Doing something like that is completely nullifying any stats, abilities (such as hearing he guy coming), or even clothing that the victim is wearing (armor, hidden or not), and making up abilities of your own (such as being able to accurately target someone's spine).
Godmode, case closed.
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I eat godmoddders for breakfast. There can only be one of me ;)
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kiaerulf, it would seem to me that you are aware how unacceptable such a scenario is. Therefore it's a case of preaching to the choir, really. I understand you're trying to delicately avoid bringing up the EL scenario while touching on the same subject. Still, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this thread - you know full well that no one is going to come and say, "That's a totally acceptable way to RP."
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Kiaerulf .. Maybe if you could explain your point a bit, people could focus less on the sample and more on the topic.. just an idea.
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Kiaerulf .. Maybe if you could explain your point a bit, people could focus less on the sample and more on the topic.. just an idea.
Right now the example is the interesting part which i want people to take a stand on. Especially high ups.
- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
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Based on what you know so far, kiaerulf, what are your expectations on responses?
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Forgive my intrusion into the thread, but, isn't this obvious? I mean... yeah.
edit in response to the post after this one: My reaction, ignore it turn and inform via tells what they did wrong, and how to rp properly.
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Based on what you know so far, kiaerulf, what are your expectations on responses?
Well, I want to hear peoples honest opinions. Is this acceptable? What can you expect of reactions if you do this? How would you react if somebody else did that to you?
Nothing more nothing less.
- Kia
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Well, in that case, I would have ignored the thing or maybe stopped to laugh a bit.. but therefore it could have lead to a conversation and perhaps a much more interesting RP.. who knows.. it depends on the 'moment'.
Perhaps if the RP would have improved, in time i'd spare some tria ... but who knows..
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I concur, that is godmodding, The other guy might as well write a book or something.
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I concur, that is godmodding, The other guy might as well write a book or something.
How could the victim write a book? She/He is dead. What would the assassin (or an alt of the assassin that gets deleted after writing the book) write in the book? "This guy got killed and robbed. Though luck but thats life ... survival of the fittest. Feeling sorry you didn't went here with somebody else?"?
So, what you are saying is that even though this happens in RL its not acceptable because it leaves the victim without any choice than to hand over his/hers stuff and get killed ( or he could refuse because of the game mechanics but that would leave the victim as a bad RP'er). These attacks do happen in RL where the strike comes as a lightning from a clear sky.
[Well, and people carrying heavy loads will not wear armor or the armor they wear will have cracks so it is possible to do this. Also doing stealth attacks are also possible in RL or at least the victim might realize too late what is going on]
So i guess the conclusion is: If you RP and leaving you opponent without any options of doing anything like escaping and be able to describe the attacker to the guards you have crossed the line?
Just an aditional questions for the devs: What is the purpose of backstabbing [not implemented yet, i know] if this kind of RP will not be tolerated, 'cus that is what backstabbing is?
- Kia
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kiaerulf, when backstabbing is implemented no doubt it will be done in a way that won't compromise the fun of both parties. I highly doubt you'll be able to stab anyone you want, for that is Player Killing and we do not tolerate such griefing, nor have plans for it. We're not going to touch that skill in a very long time, so everything is a guess at this point - however, it's possible it will only be allowed in designated PvP areas, or you'll have to mark your character in a sort of "auto-accept."
The problem with roleplaying this purely using text instead of supporting game mechanics, is it becomes a battle of words, and players aren't always willing to compromise. When we put features into the game, we try to make sure they are as fair as possible and leave little in the hands of the players to disagree on.
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I meant the player, not the character. There is no way that one can dictate what someone else does. Even in real life one is given the chance to react.
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You should know by now that dead is not dead in this game. After you climb out of the Death Realm you can scream bloody murder. Also as suggested in another thread there is a kind of magic in the game that is used for discovering things that cannot be known otherwise. The particular spells are not implemented but the chicken entrails tell me the possibility is there. I think I saw something in that birdbath over there....
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Well, this is a really hot topic at the moment. But i want something clarified:
Imagine you are walking alone slowly towards Hydlaa from the platinum mine without anyone being nearby. Suddenly someone comes running up to up and says this in main and tells:
<example>
"/me sneaks up on XXX without a noise and stabs his daggers into your spine and kills you instantly while covering your mouth."
/trade XXX
/tell [sorry mate, you have just been killed and robbed. Hand me your inventory and trias and accept the challenge and let yourself get killed.]
/challenge XXX
"/me looks around and sees that this was not noticed by anyone"
"/me quickly grabs XXXs bags and trias and disappears without a trace and fast as the wind."
</example>
[edit: After that you claim that nobody could possible have noticed since noone was around and you covered your tracks by killing the only witness (read: the vitim) and dead people can't possible talk so noone would have no chance to find you]
What would you do in a situation like this?
Is this an acceptable way of RP'ing?
What do the high ups think about this? Do you like this kind of RP? Is this what you intended to happen IG?
[edit: this is not unlikely to happen in RL]
- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
Personally speaking you would do better sending a tells first, this gives warning you intend to do a Role Play, you are also asking for that players permission by doing so, so If the player agrees, get on with it. If not find someone that will agree. Remember if both parties agree, no one will be upset.
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What you describe kiaerulf is called forced roleplay and it is an absolutely "no go" for me and probably most players. Imagine yourself on the other end and you will see that this is no fun. The key to avoid forced roleplaying is using phrases such as "tries to <do something>". This leaves the other freedom to react. In your example it could have been possible for the victim to hear you despite you trying not to make any sounds. Or it turns away the moment to try to place your knife making you missing your mark. The possibilities are endless.
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My roleplay ethics are simple.
No godmodding and when I suspect even a possibility of annoying someone in an OOC manner, I use tells to keep the atmosphere friendly.
The only time I breach the latter rule is if I'm approached by someone who shows poor ethics themselves, either godmodding or not caring if the other player is still enjoying the interaction. Then I can fight fire with fire and make them feel how they're treating others before I talk to them in tells. Sometimes it gets the point across, sometimes it just degrades into two annoyed sides. In the latter case I just leave and make a point to avoid interaction with that player in the future.
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I'm a bit confused when you say:
How could the victim write a book? She/He is dead. What would the assassin (or an alt of the assassin that gets deleted after writing the book) write in the book? "This guy got killed and robbed. Though luck but thats life ... survival of the fittest. Feeling sorry you didn't went here with somebody else?"?
Why would you actually be dead unless you foolishly accept the challenge? Is it possible to kill someone without a challenge in place or is this just future discussion for if PS goes free-for-all and allows backstabbing and killing unsuspecting players? I'd think there would have to be legit consequences for such actions in place... capital punishment, banishment, permanent marks, etc.
For now, I thought the only way you can get killed by another player is if you accept a challenge? And since the other players can see how they match up against you by reading your description, you'd learn quickly not to accept challenges after the first pummelling. Besides that, their banter is just typical school yard, bully, bs stuff. You have full range to fight back with your imagination and role play your character to how they would react to a bully. Course, I can never think of things fast enough... so in a way, it is survival of the fast witted. It happens in real life, so I'd expect it to happen in a world controlled by humans, too, especially with less restrictions on their behaviour when they are in the safety of their computer. Hopefully it doesn't get out of control.
I think it'd be great to get rid of the match-up description eventually, so its tougher to find out if someone is an easy or tough target. That or you can alter it so you look weak and then accept the challenge when it comes across and put the player in their place. Humbling experiences have ways of changing behaviour...
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Alright, time for me to continue this although i have a feeling that most of you knows where Im getting at.
Allow me to sum up from your comments:
A RP like the described is not acceptable because:
- I is godmodding: you don't leave the other person with any options to act
- It is forced RP: You don't leave the other person with any choice of participating
- Its not fun for the victim (OOC): actually a combination of the two above. PS is still just a game.
Thank you for your input on the example above.
I will not go any further on this. You can draw your own parallels to the GH theft which is very similar to the described RP.
Just bear in mind we had no way of declining or ignoring it.
Have fun :)
- Kiaerulf
Ulber Tamer of Elemental Light
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You can draw your own parallels to the GH theft which is very similar to the described RP.
Just bear in mind we had no way of declining or ignoring it.
Are there any parallels? Really? Sorry, but leaving a house unlocked and unattended with a million valuable things inside sounds just plain stupid to me. This has nothing to do with godmodding or forced roleplay. But thanks for making this thread to whine about the raid. Sorry, but I'm really looking forward when lockpicking is fully integrated in the game and we are allowed to pick doors of guild houses.
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I concur, once you put something on the ground, you no longer retain ownership of it unless you're guarding it. Even if it is inside your own guildhouse.
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Ok let me ask you a few questions, might shed some light on this.
1. Define role play? A. is it one sided only. B. or do you need a second party OR more to do role play.
2. Would you inform them of your intentions, so they can react to it? Do you just do it regardless how person sitting at other computer might feel about it, or even care if they have other plans?
3. If you do 2. would you except there refusal to participate?
Before you answer read this from player policy.
The game is about roleplay, so part of the rules are to encourage or "enforce" it as smoothly as possible. The freedom of everyone has to be respected as long as it doesn't come in the way of someone else's, with a priority on the RPG style. The name policy, the content of the dialogs and the online activities are concerned with this issue.
It has to be a good experience for everyone, and to achieve this goal any annoying behaviour will have to be dealt with. That includes language and content, spamming, harassment and privacy
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Role play is an individual thing and requires no other participants. Multiple players role playing concurrently, separately or together adds to the experience but is not necessary. I remember one of my characters sitting against a tree near Harnquist, just humming a nonsense tune. Others were nearby but not interacting with me. Some may have been amused others annoyed, mostly I was just ignored.
What happened in the guild house was completely understandable though it was taken to an undue extreme. It was perfectly in context to take stuff, it was out of context to take the "kitchen sink." If the thief players had stopped to consider the circumstances for even a second they would have realized that stuff was laying around in the open because safes, locked display cabinets and etc. are not implemented. It is very likely that in a real world situation they would have snatched only a tenth of the stuff and not everything because some would take too long to find or free and it was very likely someone would be showing up unless they had cased the joint and knew the residents were away for some time. This was not the case.
Wait! are we still talking about this? Ah well there were a bunch of other things wrong with it, in particular, rubbing it in on the forums. If it was just to inform it would have been better by pm. I cannot believe the number of people condoning it unconditionally.
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Kaityra and Tuxide, would you accept a RP like the one i sketched in the first post of this thread? Yes or no. If no, why not?
Oh, and this thread is not meant for a new way of whining. This is meant to clarify things a bit, what is acceptable and what is not. I want to know exactly what i can expect of this game. Especially: what do those people that is just not regular players as you and I expect from this game.
I want to know if you can transfer RL events to this game. Both things can happen IRL, the theft and the assult, and there is nothing you can do about it.
The difference between those two events are the game mechanics let you ignore the assault but not the theft. You can't decline the theft if the door is unlocked for some unspecified reason.
If you read it as something else well ... then Im sorry but you are wrong.
- Kia
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Kaityra and Tuxide, would you accept a RP like the one i sketched in the first post of this thread?
Well, you can read my response some comments above.
Yes or no. If no, why not?
The main difference is, that in your scenario something is done to the character directly. The character is there and the character/player can react. If there had been a character guarding the treasures in the guild house or if the guild house had been entered by means of forced roleplay it would be a different matter.
I'm really looking forward to see a lot of these discussions once the lockpicking is fully implemented.
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thread fails.
as stated in the other thread that was locked: the gh raid issue was supposedly resolved. hence no need for further discussion about it. I let this thread go becuase the example you listed is no where the same as what happened in that other event, but since you have tried to bring up that event in this thread, I'll be deleting this thread now, as the OP questions/examples are a duplicate, and for the other reason I just stated.
quit with the unnecessary drama folks.