PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: vuvman on September 23, 2008, 01:32:00 am
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First off, I want to make it clear that I intend this to be a constructive criticism, not some newb rant who didn't put in the time and effort and then start complaining like an eight-year-old. I've been roleplaying in games for over 10 years and have finished everything from BG (I, II and the expansions) to Neverwinter Nights (all of them and all the expansions as well as many of the more famous mods) to Icewind Dale, Dungeon Siege (I & II, and the expansions), Mass Effect... anyway, you get the idea. My experience with PS was largely negative, though not without its charm.
Pre-Game Install
The Torrent download didn't work at all. So after waiting a day to see if it would connect (I'm an A+ certified technician and have been in the networking industry for over 10 years, so YES, I do know how to use BitTorrent) I finally gave up and downloaded it from a mirror. That worked fine. Then I had to download a new updater, which was fine because I'm aware that sometimes that's what's needed. But when the updater didn't work (first it was marked "inactive" - a hack I figured out on my own), I started to get a little annoyed. After searching for a few hours and reading more than a few posts by developers giving less than intuitive and helpful instruction (i.e. why am I being told in this post (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32812.0) to download and install an older version? :o That's not only ridiculous, but makes no sense from a development standpoint.). I was less than impressed that I then had to download a new updaterinfo.xml file as well as create an updaterinfo.xml.bak file just so the updater could see it and delete it!! After umpteen tries, the updater still didn't work and then voila... suddenly it did - and for no apparent reason. After having it successfully "complete" updating, I ran the PS Client only to be told I still had the wrong version. So I ran the updater again and the same thing happened. I had to run the updater 2 MORE TIMES!!! before client was updated and by this time I was less than impressed with the game. :@#\ Suffice it to say that while I appreciate the model the development team has with the updater, the issues I experienced were NOT unique and the answers I found on the forums were replete with less than polite remarks from the dev team. If you're looking to attract people to PS, you're doing a fantastic job of raising the entry bar so high that only the most patient and technically inclined actually end up playing.
Character Creation & Tutorial
The character creator was relatively well done, though not intuative and hard to read when the sentences were cut off, but it worked well enough. I found myself wanting to know what the CP value was all about (i.e. there was no explanation about that), and when I reached the end of the process with a negative amount, I was given a warning and forced back to the beginning of the process. This needs to be fixed. Here are my suggestions for character creation:
- Track the character creation process that shows the user how far along they are. This helps them budget their CPs.
- Explain what CPs are and how they get used
- Explain how the stats on the last screen are calculated - I ended going back and forth repeatedly in an attempt to balance out my character while budgeting CPs
- Clean up the interface - it's hard to read - avoid horizontal scrolling bars
The tutorial was fine, it did a good job of teaching me how to control my character, how to interact, trade, buy, sell; and all the basic things a newb needs. What I wasn't told though was how leveling up works or how one creates and casts spells.
Gameplay
This is where I had the most trouble with the game. While I can get over the ridiculous installation troubles, it was the "little" things in the gameplay that caused me to stop playing PS after only a day. I'll list my complaints and then my suggestions for fixing them.
- Getting stuck (ALL THE TIME!!!). I was constantly getting caught between walls and ladders, in a hole or between two textures, etc. This drove me nuts. I was glad to have the /unstick command available, except that half the time I was told to wait or that I couldn't unstick at all!! It was the ladder that really ticked me off. Either build a better game where characters don't get stuck, or allow players to unstick themselves anytime from anywhere. Having to wait or being told that I can't is unacceptable.
- Lack of basic instruction. While the tutorial did a good job of showing me how to interact with others and use objects, it didn't tell me anything useful about magic, how to heal myself or where to go in the game for help. Had it not been for a very helpful player who showed me the way to the local mage I would not have made it there to get the quest I needed to get the Energy Glyph. Even when I did get it, I only knew how to purify it (based on the tutorial), but didn't know anything about how to create a spell with it, let alone use one. When my research failed, I was suddenly injured and given no explanation as to why other than that the magic "hurt" me. What was wrong? Was I not smart enough? Was I missing some basic technique? Did I need some specific inventory? None of these questions were answered. I understand the push for a true role playing experience, but when basic issues like this aren't explained and no info is given as to HOW I can find these things out, it doesn't encourage me to continue much further into the game. It causes me to wonder what else I don't know that might be critical to my survival.
- Death Realm. Great idea!! Loved it. It was challenging and forced me to think about the relatively stupid way in which I died (something I will keep to myself ;D). What I didn't like though was that I was told to empty my inventory before leaving because of some curse. My issue isn't that I was punished for dying, but that I wasn't given any info about the curse itself. So I left the realm with my inventory full. Suddenly I was cursed and had all these questions... what does the curse do, is it permanent, how do I get rid of it, does it compound if I die a second time and leave with my inventory full, etc.? None of these things were explained in the game. How can a player decide if the curse is worth the risk if they don't have any information about it? It's this type of lack of information that I found throughout most of my experience.
- Selecting NPCs. I found it nearly impossible (or very frustrating at least) to select an NPC that was standing beneath/behind a merchant tent
- NPC Conversation Intelligence. Many NPCs would ask me how I was doing, or would welcome me in some way. I found this to be great, but when I responded with "I'm well" or "thank you", they would tell me they didn't understand. This completely destroys the roleplay experience. I spent some time a number of years ago writing AI and working on some chatbots (using the ALICE brain (http://alicebot.blogspot.com/)). It should be relatively easy to teach the in-game AI some basic conversation without having to rewrite the entire script.
The Good Stuff
PS has, in my opinion, more promise than nearly every other MMORPG. From a technical stand point, the entry bar is low with low system requirements and a relatively stable running experience. I like the model you have with the updater, it just needs to be fixed - and properly. Many users will not respond with the same kind of patience I did when I was told to download and install a new updater by hand.
The biggest thing that impressed me about PS was the last NPC in the tutorial. I was very happy to see the focus the dev team placed on ROLEPLAY and on teaching the player how to behave in the game. The people I met the game world were much more "worldly" in the virtual world than in other games where the topic of conversation often moves to the real life world. Making that distinction between the two worlds really helped me get in character. I guess you could call it "Virtual Action Role Playing" (VARP! lol), it was refreshing from a gameplay standpoint.
As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, while my experience was largely negative from beginning to end, PS isn't without its good points and charm. It has more potential than most other games to be a real role playing experience that's fun, with intuitive controls, etc. My encouragement to the PS dev team is to take a good look at some of the issues I've raised, work on what you feel needs to be fixed and make a game that new users can feel excited about playing.
- Vuvman
P.S. Sorry for the excessively long post, thanks for your patience in reading it.
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remember ps is not a finished game and not all that reply to posts are devs, for instance i am not a dev but i am on the staff as an official "tester"
ps will take a long time to get to the point that all can use it with little to no problems. We have had issues recently with the server that will affect the torrent tracker.
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remember ps is not a finished game and not all that reply to posts are devs, for instance i am not a dev but i am on the staff as an official "tester"
ps will take a long time to get to the point that all can use it with little to no problems. We have had issues recently with the server that will affect the torrent tracker.
The torrent appears to be in order at the moment, although I hear as such. Seeding is fine, or at least appears to be.
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remember ps is not a finished game and not all that reply to posts are devs, for instance i am not a dev but i am on the staff as an official "tester"
ps will take a long time to get to the point that all can use it with little to no problems. We have had issues recently with the server that will affect the torrent tracker.
I understand that not everyone who responds are devs, but that doesn't change the fact many answers were -in my opinion- less than helpful. None of them really helped me fix my issue apart from downloading a new.xml file for the updater.
I also understand that PS is far from ready with regard to "mainstream" players (as evidenced by the install issues many people are having and my experience with the gameplay itself). My desire is to provide some constructive feed back from someone who DOES understand development and game design that will help PS get there one step sooner. Don't get me wrong... I WANT to play PS.
Yes, I was frusterated at many points in the game, but at no point did I feel that the game "sucks" or dismiss it out of hand due to some emotional over-reaction on my part. I like PS, I'm not just at a place where I can have fun playing it with these issues in place.
With regard to the tracker: it does make sense that the recent server issues would affect that. But if that's the case then temporarily comment out the torrent download option on the website so people don't try to use it. The torrent issue didn't help considering all the other install issues. But I am glad to hear that it's seeding again.
[update]
One good thing I failed to mention was that during that updating process, I was glad to see an MD5 security check for EVERY download. It helped me feel very confident that when the update did work... it would work properly.
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This is just my personal opinion and may have fixed a part of your pre install problem, but I find Utorrent to be far superior then Bittorrent. I have had similar problems that you faced when using Bitorrent, but I haven't had that problem on Utorrent. - Thats just my own two cents there.
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please don't take this as flaming, but comon man, all that impatience with the installation and then you quit player after 1 day? what the heck!? just my two cents...
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All I can say about your initial post: We're working on (all of) it.
We're well aware of most of these problems and trying to get them fixed, but it takes time, as usual. Maybe you'll want to check back in a while to see if things changed for the better by then - or if you know how to code - help us fixing these bugs. Currently, very few engine devs are really active, so every new knowledgeable face and hand is welcomed :)
PS: Tester team needs more good people badly just as well.
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please don't take this as flaming, but comon man, all that impatience with the installation and then you quit player after 1 day? what the heck!? just my two cents...
I don't take it as flaming. In fact, I had the same thought. I almost did give it another try, but the truth is that what bugged me yesterday will still bug me three days and even a week from now. I'm willing to accept only so much "bugginess" in my gaming experience. After having played nearly every major RPG in existence, I find myself very sure of what kind of experience I'm after and the plain fact is that - for now at least - PS can't offer me that.
All I can say about your initial post: We're working on (all of) it.
We're well aware of most of these problems and trying to get them fixed, but it takes time, as usual. Maybe you'll want to check back in a while to see if things changed for the better by then - or if you know how to code - help us fixing these bugs. Currently, very few engine devs are really active, so every new knowledgeable face and hand is welcomed :)
Thank you for your kind words. It was not my intention to "dump" on the dev team or PS. It's a great game in the making and someday I'll play it seriously. I'm not much of a coder (apart from the AIML I worked on a while back), but I do know how to build a good interface, so I'm willing to pitch in that way. I'd probably make a better tester than anything else. ;)
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Vuman,
Thank you for your comments on the game. They were well-written, candid, polite, and helpful. Many of the issues are ones we are currently battling, but some, quite frankly, I had not considered (my failing - I still have much to learn). I can only echo what Kerol said and hope that you will check in with us from time to time to see if PlaneShift can become a MMORPG you enjoy playing.
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If you can build ps and have the time we are looking for more official testers to join the team.
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Vuman,
Thank you for your comments on the game. They were well-written, candid, polite, and helpful. Many of the issues are ones we are currently battling, but some, quite frankly, I had not considered (my failing - I still have much to learn). I can only echo what Kerol said and hope that you will check in with us from time to time to see if PlaneShift can become a MMORPG you enjoy playing.
Oomi, you flatter me. :) I very nearly expected to get eaten alive for my post, much less invited to help out! \\o//
If you can build ps and have the time we are looking for more official testers to join the team.
I CAN build! It's been a while; but PS is exactly the kind of project I could get all nerdy about. I prefer to build using BSD (though I game in Windows), but there's nothing stopping me from running an appropriate distro in a VM and testing from there. I can do the same for Windows and Linux if need be (not keen on building using my host OS. FreeBSD is my all-time favorite though). Plus I'd be able to give feedback on how it works with a clean install.
Okay... here's what I'll do. Since everyone has been so kind to me, I'll fire up PS again, delete my cursed character and start over (it would be nice to have an option to skip the tutorial!!). I find myself rooting for PS as it's the first Open Source MMORPG I've found that's actually playable. If you're serious about having another tester, email me (I'm sure ya'll have access to my hidden email address) and I'll get back to you with my personal email address and we'll go from there.
In the meantime, I'm off to go "VARPing" ... *chuckle*
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I wish more complaint threads were like this one......
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Vuman -
I cannot peek at your private email address currently, but go to the top left of the page after you've logged in to the forum and check your messages - there should be one with my email addy in it. You are more than welcome to send me a message if you wish.
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Wow, I love you Vuvman. Exactly how I feel about Planeshift, just... Kinder, lul. Finally, a constructive complaint that isn't about something stupid.
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I wish more complaint threads were like this one......
Wow, I love you Vuvman. Exactly how I feel about Planeshift, just... Kinder, lul. Finally, a constructive complaint that isn't about something stupid.
Gosh... all this love... I need to pinch myself. X-/ LOL
Vuman -
I cannot peek at your private email address currently, but go to the top left of the page after you've logged in to the forum and check your messages - there should be one with my email addy in it. You are more than welcome to send me a message if you wish.
I got your msg. You should have an email from me shortly. It's 1:30am here and I'm starting to get dizzy. I'll be quick.
Night Everyone!!
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If you can build ps and have the time we are looking for more official testers to join the team.
I CAN build! It's been a while; but PS is exactly the kind of project I could get all nerdy about. I prefer to build using BSD (though I game in Windows), but there's nothing stopping me from running an appropriate distro in a VM and testing from there. I can do the same for Windows and Linux if need be (not keen on building using my host OS. FreeBSD is my all-time favorite though). Plus I'd be able to give feedback on how it works with a clean install.
Okay... here's what I'll do. Since everyone has been so kind to me, I'll fire up PS again, delete my cursed character and start over (it would be nice to have an option to skip the tutorial!!). I find myself rooting for PS as it's the first Open Source MMORPG I've found that's actually playable. If you're serious about having another tester, email me (I'm sure ya'll have access to my hidden email address) and I'll get back to you with my personal email address and we'll go from there.
In the meantime, I'm off to go "VARPing" ... *chuckle*
take a look at http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/planeshift/trunk/docs/compiling.html and please if you wish to work further on joining the testing team join us on irc server freenode channel #planeshift-build or get to 10 posts and send me a pm here that you have finished your build and i can tell you what is next to do in order to be considered for the testing team.
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Well seeing as Planeshift aims to be cross-platform as much as possible I suspect your preference for BSD is a positive, not a negative. I'm guessing the team would find having someone to support that OS very attractive although it might be more of a challenge for you.
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I had CB running on FreeBSD a year or so ago and iirc there was a port of 0.03.012
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I'm building, testing & playing on FreeBSD as well and could help with testing and/or support in that regard.
The current release is doing pretty well on FreeBSD, with some drawbacks regarding graphics (Nvidia Cg toolkit is not available for FreeBSD) and the updater (does not recognize FreeBSD and tries to install Linux binaries, so one has to apply the updates manually with xdelta3 (which is a real PITA)).
Unfortunately, the Crystalspace port (in the FreeBSD Ports Collection) is in a pretty bad shape, and difficult to maintain due to its complexity and number of dependencies. Since there aren't that many games using it, I'd guess there isn't much demand either. I don't know who created the 0.3.017 port, but with combined efforts, I'm sure we could bring the ports back to life.
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I'm building, testing & playing on FreeBSD as well and could help with testing and/or support in that regard.
The current release is doing pretty well on FreeBSD, with some drawbacks regarding graphics (Nvidia Cg toolkit is not available for FreeBSD) and the updater (does not recognize FreeBSD and tries to install Linux binaries, so one has to apply the updates manually with xdelta3 (which is a real PITA)).
Unfortunately, the Crystalspace port (in the FreeBSD Ports Collection) is in a pretty bad shape, and difficult to maintain due to its complexity and number of dependencies. Since there aren't that many games using it, I'd guess there isn't much demand either. I don't know who created the 0.3.017 port, but with combined efforts, I'm sure we could bring the ports back to life.
I used to build on BSD from Ports all the time (though I've never committed to it). I even built my own "distro" for use on my wife's laptop. It used to have XP on it with 128megs RAM (yes, I winced too every time I used it) when the external memory slot died, leaving us with only 64. So I turned to FreeBSD and built a desktop OS from the ground up using Enlightenment (my all-time favorite!!). It worked so well a friend borrowed to take with him on vacation so he could finish writing the script for a video assignment he had. I've wanted to run my server on FreeNAS for the longest time, but now that I'm hosting my podcast from it, it'll have to wait for the time being.
take a look at http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/planeshift/trunk/docs/compiling.html and please if you wish to work further on joining the testing team join us on irc server freenode channel #planeshift-build or get to 10 posts and send me a pm here that you have finished your build and i can tell you what is next to do in order to be considered for the testing team.
I will. Give me a couple hours to get the VMs running, find my way around IRC again and grab the SVN. But first I need to finish waking up. ::|
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Vuvman, I'm sorry to hear that you're not playing anymore, but at least you politely pointed out why you weren't with clear explanations.
Too bad there isn't much of a PR department because this is a post that i would use to template how to post a complaint in the complaint department...and how to respond to such a constructive one as well.
/me hands out cookies to everyone for such a good job
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Vuvman, I'm sorry to hear that you're not playing anymore, but at least you politely pointed out why you weren't with clear explanations.
Too bad there isn't much of a PR department because this is a post that i would use to template how to post a complaint in the complaint department...and how to respond to such a constructive one as well.
/me hands out cookies to everyone for such a good job
but the good thing is Vuvman has built his client is on his way to learning more about the game and helping the testing team.
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Vuvman, I'm sorry to hear that you're not playing anymore, but at least you politely pointed out why you weren't with clear explanations.
Too bad there isn't much of a PR department because this is a post that i would use to template how to post a complaint in the complaint department...and how to respond to such a constructive one as well.
/me hands out cookies to everyone for such a good job
but the good thing is Vuvman has built his client is on his way to learning more about the game and helping the testing team.
which is why this is a model post.
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Vuvman you have brought a tear to my eye, a happy tear, because of an emotion only described through a quote
Wow, I love you Vuvman. Exactly how I feel about Planeshift, just... Kinder, lul. Finally, a constructive complaint that isn't about something stupid.
Complainer to Tester in a matter of a day!!!
I bump this thread as the first of its kind!
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I'm really happy how this went. I hope he'll stick around :)
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Vuvmans complaint should be stickied in a thread called "How to complain".If we had more people complain like that my favorite forum will probably switch to the complaint's. Seriously though nice job Vuvman. If there is one thing PSer's love it's constructive criticism.... And cookies.
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(http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/2115973/cookies-main_Full.jpg)
Two good things in one complaint thread? I don't know if I can handle the shock.
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Ok, all of what the guy said in the first post... Just copy and paste it here... (My feelings are the same.)
A couple of posts down, the comment... "Currently, very few engine devs are really active"
- That is called abandonware. (The "Few" devs that knew anything, did not know the solution, so they stopped developing or are waiting for the answer to come bite them on the...)
Four years, and the intro still is not fixed, the "Chatting" still exists. (Trust me, kill the chat-AI, we are playing a game, not a "Guess what I want you to ask me, and how I want you to ask it.") Give us a list of the "Things we should be asking." The reason games have not used that type of interface since kings-quest... was because no-one liked it. That is the reason MUD's are still a 0.001% of the gaming population.
Fine, I understand that a lot of work went into these "Dialogs", but dialogs don't make the game. The "Game" is visual, interactive with the mouse, and requires navigation in 3D. However, the focus is on the simple-text "Easy to work with", MUD dialog. I never got past the first character, because I couldn't figure out "What to type". I don't want to "Figure out what to type", I came here to play a game, not write and read a novel. That is what forums are for.
My character creation, was the stupidest rule-set of them all...
You demand a last-name... in the "Name" box. (Mistake number one)
- You NEED two boxes. (First name), (Last name)
You demand that the first-name be unique??!?!?
- You don't know two "Bob's"?
- Why is there a last name, if the first name is unique?
The last name has no purpose... apparently... and must be unique?
- You don't know anyone with brothers and sisters? I am sure most of them have the same last name.
You have the ability to select other characters... but none exist..
- Disable the selection, like the body-settings are disabled, because they don't exist.
You have us type our "Mother" and "Father"... And the last names...
- Wouldn't the last name be the same as the father?
- Wouldn't the mothers name be the same as the fathers? (Ok, there could be an exception to that rule.)
- Would it not make sense to start the game, asking who your "Mother is" (First Name, Maiden Name) {Unknown being an option}
- Then ask... Who is your "Father" (First Name, Last Name) {Unknown being an option}
- Would it not make sense to have that info carry-over to your name... But allow you to choose... LAST NAME... (If you are married, and female, or if you are adopted, it would not be the same... That would prompt... "Is this your married name, or were you adopted?")
It would be within reason to limit names to (First name + Last name) = Original
However, denying a name because of "IamSomeName" is not "Iamsomename"... Seriously, change it to sentence-case, or don't allow upper-case to be typed. That was just annoying.
Actually, if a last name exists, it should show the user the family tree, and ask if they are part of that family. (They can not be a child of an existing parent, or a child of an existing child, unless they have the parents/childs password. EG, if this was me creating another EGO for my twin/sibling, I would know the original password. This limitation would also be bound to e-mail, so that I could not join other families, only add to my own.)
EG... If there was a last name "Smith"... (Already existing as the "Father" {"Fred Smith", of "Jane Doe" {Maiden name "Jane Smith"})
I would be limited to saying I was a third-cousin, at most...
My name "Bob Smith", who's father was "Abe Smith"... fathers relation would be limited to {"Abe Smith" = relative of "Fred Smith", but not the brother of "Abe"}
EG, Abe and Fred do not share the same father... but their fathers were brothers. (That provides enough personal space between players, so they don't take offense to people hopping inside their family tree.)
So "Jane Doe" {"Jane Smith"} would be a distant-cousin of the new character "Bob Smith".
Once I create "Bob Smith" son of "Abe Smith", (@ My E-Mail)
I am limited to creating only brother/sister "_____ Smith" {Maiden name "Smith", or new last name [Unique] if female/married.}
All creations have the same father/mother, or possibly replace one, not both, with a new [Unique]. For instances where siblings have half-relation. Separate mother/father. That may be a little more complexity than desired, but would lead to some interesting play options.
Since we all exist now {As in this game date}... It is safe to say that we are all potentially related in the time-line. Our set age would determine our potential tree-parent ages.
"Bob Smith" is 50 but his distant-cousin "Jane Smith{Doe}" is 20...
"Abe Smith" {Bob's father} is most likely older than "Fred Smith" {Jane's father}. (If that even matters.)
Otherwise, there is no point in having two-halves o a name, both halves being unique to all other {Place names}...
Smith Smith is possible... no one has First-Name Smith, and no one has Last-Name Smith... which is just crazy, but not as crazy as demanding there is only one "Bob" and only one "Smith"... that would make us all single-children, unmarried. (Which defeats the purpose of the "How many siblings do you have" question, which should not even be a question. That should be determined by the characters you create, or, if selected... would limit creation of characters to that number. If you ran out of siblings, you would have to create a new mother/father combo. But still keep one of them. M1&F1 = 3C, M1&F2 = 2C, M2&F1 = 1C, there would be no M2&F2... they would not be related siblings at that point. EG, M1&F1 get divorced... M1 marries F2, and F1 marries M2. The children from M1F1 are related by half to the children of M1F2 and M2F1.)
Anywho... that is besides the point... I had to drop my name to lower-case, once I figured out that is what the problem was. (It was not clear.) Leading to a website in the middle of playing a game is not a solution. Just tell us there, what is wrong with the names. Seriously, we need to go to the internet to see what you can't tell us in the game. How about making us create the name on the internet... Use that as our login for the site... Great, now I have three logins... one for the site, one for the game, and one for the forums...
Going into the game, the mouse control just stinks... Sorry, no kind words there. My player seems to have epilepsy at random points in the game, throwing his arms into the air, swinging one, jumping forward, sticking to the ground, jumping sideways... The mouse-view jumps forward, locks the view, lags as it looks around, and I have to constantly pick-up and move the mouse to get full range looking. The rotate-view, rotates the player also... now I loose my facing, when I am attempting to get a better view of the scene. If this were a fight, I would now be swinging away from my target. That is not a good interface design. The player loves to look at the ground... If there were a horizon, I would never see it... I feel like I am walking around like the hunchback of notre-dame... I don't recall ANY game with that awkward look-down view, which seems locked into place.
The camera view is like a drunk bird following the player... That was said to be harsh... There is no other way to describe it kindly. (It is not lag, that is programmed code, which everyone keeps "referring to" as "LAG"... they/we are not talking about "Net-lag" or "Video-lag", we are talking about the "Camera-lag" that the programmers have setup to make the camera act like a drunk bird.
Turning is like a rubber-band... it has an elastic delay to start.. then has a delayed stop. If I move my mouse... move my view... NOW, and if I stop moving my mouse... stop moving my view... NOW. If I had to play this for hours, I would fail a sobriety test, and possibly get sea-sick from all that whip-snappy motion.
The turn-speed goes from slow, to way too fast... overshooting what you actually want to look at. Feels like I am driving a hovercraft, not controlling my head-motion. (Which is what the camera should be simulating.
When I attacked the RAT, with my hands, because I couldn't figure out what the armor guy wanted me to say, to get the weapon...
"You are not close enough to your target"
"You are not facing your target"
I was directly in front of the damn thing, and at one point, on top of it... Killed it, even though it kept saying those two lines over and over. (Detection is out of whack.)
The story-line says I start off underground... but I am apparently in an above-ground city. With junk and unexplainable walls all over the place as limitations to my travel. If the stuff looked like it belong there, I wouldn't mind... but it looks like it does not belong there. Start us inside the underground, like the story says... and have the tutorial be room oriented, if each section must be completed in order, or all MUST be completed to get into the game.
Since I could not complete any of the tutorial sections... I never got to play the game.
Conclusion, within the first half hour, I have completely lost interest in this game, and considered the 10 hour download, and 3 hour setup/debugging a total waste of my time. I'll check back in another four years... and give it another try. These issues are usually handled before the game creation takes place. Not after four years.
Cool graphics engine though... Love the lighting...
- World physics need major work.
- User input needs major work.
- MUD style play needs to be dropped and replaced with something that requires less thought to use. Or can be figured out without having to read a novel of instructions.
- Distance calculation formulas are sooo far out of scope, they just need to be rewritten.
- Collision detection has to be done PRIOR TO MOVING, not POST MOVE, when you have moved into a hole. This is time-based, you need to step-through DISTANCE/TIME not FRAME/TIME.
- GUI needs some small adjustments, where lettering does not fit. Letters are being cut off.
- Game Setup needs to have redundant stuff removed... and needs to check for available options.
- - (800x600 only full screen at 800x600 resolution.) Other issues also because the game is actually larger than 800x600 when you select 800x600, even without the window frame. Your proportion code is not correct. You just think it is. Which is why 800x600 windowed has trouble fitting on 1024x768, and why 1024x768 has troube displaying on 1280x800.
- - If YOUR GAME does not display in 16 bit or 24 bit... then remove them from the selection.
- - Explain what those other settings are... we have no idea what those do in the game. We are not programmers, we are players (Clients).
- Change the name of the start-shortcut that says ("StartClient") to say ("Play Steel Blue")... To you it is a client, to us it is the game.
- Merger the installer with the updater. Auto-run the updater after the install and create the desired install-paths into the shortcuts or store them for use when running the updater from a bat-file.
- Get the game down to a minimum size for install... force an update after it runs... if it doesn't run, no need to update with the other half of the game. (Thus, it is not as large of a waste of time for us, if it doesn't work. Or even if it does work.)
NOTE: It is word of mouth that carries the largest weight in a game like this. Since there is no money to advertise over the word of mouth... you are left with all these people's thoughts and impressions as your advertisement. Now I know what they were all talking about.
I regret to say, these issues which seem to be part of the engine, and not issues specific to the game, have completely dissuaded me form considering the use of this engine for anything serious. (For anything that would be expected to make money.) As a free-game... I don't think I could pay people to use this, as it is now.
Good luck with future development. I hope you find the people you need, that are willing and able to fix the problems this engine has.
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Will you still be posting on this board? Because I like a lot of what you say here. Or least stop by on Freenode.
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You say these problems should be fixed during game creation, not after. Well, surprise, this game is still in heavy development. Look at the version, it's 0.4 ;)
The rest of your problems seem to be:
- Naming (The naming will change, some better ideas have been thrown around, these will likely be implemented some day)
- Movement (Use "M" to change camera mode, and with "tab" you can change the orientation of the camera so it doesn't stay looking at the ground. Check the Options menu for more info)
- Tutorial area (Yes, PlaneShift takes place within a cave. Just not your regular cave, a HUGE cave. So it would look like you're outside, yes, but you're underground. Read the Settings/Library books for more info)
- NPC speech (It'll stick around, but be worked on. And it's really not that hard if you just read what the NPCs say. This is still an RP focused game, not eye candy and hardcore action)
- The rest of your complaints are related to our 3D engine Crystal Space, which also happens to be in heavy development, even though it's 1.0 officially.
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And yet we use the Crystal Space engine (not implying this is bad though). Guys, I want to hear more comments from people like him, not scare them away. I've been seeing some "we treat them like they're stupid" comments elsewhere lately and I want rid of that.
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Don't worry folks, summer is over, most devs are returning to the nest.
Give us some time to get our house in order.
No one on the dev team disagrees with most complaints . . . in most cases we made them months ago :)
BTW we always need help.
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Abandonware? PS and its 3D engine CS is far from being abandonware. There are periods of activity and inactivity, like with every hobby. If people are not active for a month or year, it doesn't mean they won't ever come back.
Regarding names I have proposed nearly the same thing 3 years ago. I'm still here and haven't forgotten about it. Postponed doesn't mean it won't ever become real. I don't see it as a huge issue personally, thus other things take priority for me.
I personally dislike the fighting system as it is now. Network lag causes those stupid messages that don't even correlate to what the server calculates. But on the other side I have seen the system as it was before and without the messages it wasn't better. From the technical side, it is very hard to eliminate lag as factor. Commercial games can try to tackle that with a multiserver-architecture with the client using the geologically nearest server. PS doesn't have multiple servers, but that might change in future.
Also your point on turning speed is granted, but I disagree with your complaints regarding camera view. I very much like the camera freedom and the modes as they are.
Regarding your point on collision detection: yes, a lot is possible there, but no, it's not easy. CD is one of the most resource-intensive things there are. Take into consideration we don't have a serverfarm running in the background, only one machine that handles everything. That's a very challenging setup requiring creative solutions and time to work them out.
CS already has been used for commercial applications. As example, it was used as test environment for a semi-automatic stirring software for RL trucks.