Author Topic: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)  (Read 6880 times)

vuvman

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My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« on: September 23, 2008, 01:32:00 am »
First off, I want to make it clear that I intend this to be a constructive criticism, not some newb rant who didn't put in the time and effort and then start complaining like an eight-year-old.  I've been roleplaying in games for over 10 years and have finished everything from BG (I, II and the expansions) to Neverwinter Nights (all of them and all the expansions as well as many of the more famous mods) to Icewind Dale, Dungeon Siege (I & II, and the expansions), Mass Effect... anyway, you get the idea.  My experience with PS was largely negative, though not without its charm.

Pre-Game Install
The Torrent download didn't work at all.  So after waiting a day to see if it would connect (I'm an A+ certified technician and have been in the networking industry for over 10 years, so YES, I do know how to use BitTorrent) I finally gave up and downloaded it from a mirror.  That worked fine.  Then I had to download a new updater, which was fine because I'm aware that sometimes that's what's needed.  But when the updater didn't work (first it was marked "inactive" - a hack I figured out on my own), I started to get a little annoyed.  After searching for a few hours and reading more than a few posts by developers giving less than intuitive and helpful instruction (i.e. why am I being told in this post to download and install an older version?   :o  That's not only ridiculous, but makes no sense from a development standpoint.).  I was less than impressed that I then had to download a new updaterinfo.xml file as well as create an updaterinfo.xml.bak file just so the updater could see it and delete it!!  After umpteen tries, the updater still didn't work and then voila... suddenly it did - and for no apparent reason.  After having it successfully "complete" updating, I ran the PS Client only to be told I still had the wrong version.  So I ran the updater again and the same thing happened.  I had to run the updater 2 MORE TIMES!!! before client was updated and by this time I was less than impressed with the game.   :@#\  Suffice it to say that while I appreciate the model the development team has with the updater, the issues I experienced were NOT unique and the answers I found on the forums were replete with less than polite remarks from the dev team.  If you're looking to attract people to PS, you're doing a fantastic job of raising the entry bar so high that only the most patient and technically inclined actually end up playing.

Character Creation & Tutorial
The character creator was relatively well done, though not intuative and hard to read when the sentences were cut off, but it worked well enough.  I found myself wanting to know what the CP value was all about (i.e. there was no explanation about that), and when I reached the end of the process with a negative amount, I was given a warning and forced back to the beginning of the process.  This needs to be fixed.  Here are my suggestions for character creation:

  • Track the character creation process that shows the user how far along they are.  This helps them budget their CPs.
  • Explain what CPs are and how they get used
  • Explain how the stats on the last screen are calculated - I ended going back and forth repeatedly in an attempt to balance out my character while budgeting CPs
  • Clean up the interface - it's hard to read - avoid horizontal scrolling bars

The tutorial was fine, it did a good job of teaching me how to control my character, how to interact, trade, buy, sell; and all the basic things a newb needs.  What I wasn't told though was how leveling up works or how one creates and casts spells.

Gameplay
This is where I had the most trouble with the game.  While I can get over the ridiculous installation troubles, it was the "little" things in the gameplay that caused me to stop playing PS after only a day.  I'll list my complaints and then my suggestions for fixing them.

  • Getting stuck (ALL THE TIME!!!).  I was constantly getting caught between walls and ladders, in a hole or between two textures, etc.  This drove me nuts.  I was glad to have the /unstick command available, except that half the time I was told to wait or that I couldn't unstick at all!!  It was the ladder that really ticked me off.  Either build a better game where characters don't get stuck, or allow players to unstick themselves anytime from anywhere.  Having to wait or being told that I can't is unacceptable.
  • Lack of basic instruction.  While the tutorial did a good job of showing me how to interact with others and use objects, it didn't tell me anything useful about magic, how to heal myself or where to go in the game for help.  Had it not been for a very helpful player who showed me the way to the local mage I would not have made it there to get the quest I needed to get the Energy Glyph.  Even when I did get it, I only knew how to purify it (based on the tutorial), but didn't know anything about how to create a spell with it, let alone use one.  When my research failed, I was suddenly injured and given no explanation as to why other than that the magic "hurt" me.  What was wrong?  Was I not smart enough?  Was I missing some basic technique?  Did I need some specific inventory?  None of these questions were answered.  I understand the push for a true role playing experience, but when basic issues like this aren't explained and no info is given as to HOW I can find these things out, it doesn't encourage me to continue much further into the game.  It causes me to wonder what else I don't know that might be critical to my survival.
  • Death Realm.  Great idea!!  Loved it.  It was challenging and forced me to think about the relatively stupid way in which I died (something I will keep to myself  ;D).  What I didn't like though was that I was told to empty my inventory before leaving because of some curse.  My issue isn't that I was punished for dying, but that I wasn't given any info about the curse itself.  So I left the realm with my inventory full.  Suddenly I was cursed and had all these questions...  what does the curse do, is it permanent, how do I get rid of it, does it compound if I die a second time and leave with my inventory full, etc.?  None of these things were explained in the game.  How can a player decide if the curse is worth the risk if they don't have any information about it?  It's this type of lack of information that I found throughout most of my experience.
  • Selecting NPCs.  I found it nearly impossible (or very frustrating at least) to select an NPC that was standing beneath/behind a merchant tent
  • NPC Conversation Intelligence.  Many NPCs would ask me how I was doing, or would welcome me in some way.  I found this to be great, but when I responded with "I'm well" or "thank you", they would tell me they didn't understand.  This completely destroys the roleplay experience.  I spent some time a number of years ago writing AI and working on some chatbots (using the ALICE brain).  It should be relatively easy to teach the in-game AI some basic conversation without having to rewrite the entire script.

The Good Stuff
PS has, in my opinion, more promise than nearly every other MMORPG.  From a technical stand point, the entry bar is low with low system requirements and a relatively stable running experience.  I like the model you have with the updater, it just needs to be fixed - and properly.  Many users will not respond with the same kind of patience I did when I was told to download and install a new updater by hand.

The biggest thing that impressed me about PS was the last NPC in the tutorial.  I was very happy to see the focus the dev team placed on ROLEPLAY and on teaching the player how to behave in the game.  The people I met the game world were much more "worldly" in the virtual world than in other games where the topic of conversation often moves to the real life world.  Making that distinction between the two worlds really helped me get in character.  I guess you could call it "Virtual Action Role Playing" (VARP!  lol), it was refreshing from a gameplay standpoint.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, while my experience was largely negative from beginning to end, PS isn't without its good points and charm.  It has more potential than most other games to be a real role playing experience that's fun, with intuitive controls, etc.  My encouragement to the PS dev team is to take a good look at some of the issues I've raised, work on what you feel needs to be fixed and make a game that new users can feel excited about playing.

- Vuvman

P.S. Sorry for the excessively long post, thanks for your patience in reading it.

Caarrie

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2008, 01:37:48 am »
remember ps is not a finished game and not all that reply to posts are devs, for instance i am not a dev but i am on the staff as an official "tester"

ps will take a long time to get to the point that all can use it with little to no problems. We have had issues recently with the server that will affect the torrent tracker.

Crackken

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2008, 01:50:43 am »
remember ps is not a finished game and not all that reply to posts are devs, for instance i am not a dev but i am on the staff as an official "tester"

ps will take a long time to get to the point that all can use it with little to no problems. We have had issues recently with the server that will affect the torrent tracker.

The torrent appears to be in order at the moment, although I hear as such. Seeding is fine, or at least appears to be.

vuvman

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2008, 01:55:03 am »
remember ps is not a finished game and not all that reply to posts are devs, for instance i am not a dev but i am on the staff as an official "tester"

ps will take a long time to get to the point that all can use it with little to no problems. We have had issues recently with the server that will affect the torrent tracker.

I understand that not everyone who responds are devs, but that doesn't change the fact many answers were -in my opinion- less than helpful.  None of them really helped me fix my issue apart from downloading a new.xml file for the updater.

I also understand that PS is far from ready with regard to "mainstream" players (as evidenced by the install issues many people are having and my experience with the gameplay itself).  My desire is to provide some constructive feed back from someone  who DOES understand development and game design that will help PS get there one step sooner.  Don't get me wrong... I WANT to play PS.

Yes, I was frusterated at many points in the game, but at no point did I feel that the game "sucks" or dismiss it out of hand due to some emotional over-reaction on my part.  I like PS, I'm not just at a place where I can have fun playing it with these issues in place.

With regard to the tracker: it does make sense that the recent server issues would affect that.  But if that's the case then temporarily comment out the torrent download option on the website so people don't try to use it.  The torrent issue didn't help considering all the other install issues.  But I am glad to hear that it's seeding again.

[update]
One good thing I failed to mention was that during that updating process, I was glad to see an MD5 security check for EVERY download.  It helped me feel very confident that when the update did work... it would work properly.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 01:57:12 am by vuvman »

Crackken

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 01:57:56 am »
This is just my personal opinion and may have fixed a part of your pre install problem, but I find Utorrent to be far superior then Bittorrent. I have had similar problems that you faced when using Bitorrent, but I haven't had that problem on Utorrent. - Thats just my own two cents there.

Vannaka

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 03:26:40 am »
please don't take this as flaming, but comon man, all that impatience with the installation and then you quit player after 1 day? what the heck!?  just my two cents...
Censorship FTW.

Kerol

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 03:30:53 am »
All I can say about your initial post: We're working on (all of) it.

We're well aware of most of these problems and trying to get them fixed, but it takes time, as usual. Maybe you'll want to check back in a while to see if things changed for the better by then - or if you know how to code - help us fixing these bugs. Currently, very few engine devs are really active, so every new knowledgeable face and hand is welcomed :)

PS: Tester team needs more good people badly just as well.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 03:33:54 am by Kerol »


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vuvman

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 03:36:26 am »
please don't take this as flaming, but comon man, all that impatience with the installation and then you quit player after 1 day? what the heck!?  just my two cents...

I don't take it as flaming. In fact, I had the same thought.  I almost did give it another try, but the truth is that what bugged me yesterday will still bug me three days and even a week from now.  I'm willing to accept only so much "bugginess" in my gaming experience.  After having played nearly every major RPG in existence, I find myself very sure of what kind of experience I'm after and the plain fact is that - for now at least - PS can't offer me that.

All I can say about your initial post: We're working on (all of) it.

We're well aware of most of these problems and trying to get them fixed, but it takes time, as usual. Maybe you'll want to check back in a while to see if things changed for the better by then - or if you know how to code - help us fixing these bugs. Currently, very few engine devs are really active, so every new knowledgeable face and hand is welcomed :)

Thank you for your kind words.  It was not my intention to "dump" on the dev team or PS.  It's a great game in the making and someday I'll play it seriously.  I'm not much of a coder (apart from the AIML I worked on a while back), but I do know how to build a good interface, so I'm willing to pitch in that way.  I'd probably make a better tester than anything else.  ;)

Oomi

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 03:37:50 am »
Vuman,

Thank you for your comments on the game. They were well-written, candid, polite, and helpful. Many of the issues are ones we are currently battling, but some, quite frankly, I had not considered (my failing - I still have much to learn). I can only echo what Kerol said and hope that you will check in with us from time to time to see if PlaneShift can become a MMORPG you enjoy playing.

Caarrie

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 03:38:36 am »
If you can build ps and have the time we are looking for more official testers to join the team.

vuvman

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2008, 04:49:37 am »
Vuman,

Thank you for your comments on the game. They were well-written, candid, polite, and helpful. Many of the issues are ones we are currently battling, but some, quite frankly, I had not considered (my failing - I still have much to learn). I can only echo what Kerol said and hope that you will check in with us from time to time to see if PlaneShift can become a MMORPG you enjoy playing.

Oomi, you flatter me.   :)  I very nearly expected to get eaten alive for my post, much less invited to help out!  \\o//

If you can build ps and have the time we are looking for more official testers to join the team.

I CAN build!  It's been a while; but PS is exactly the kind of project I could get all nerdy about.  I prefer to build using BSD (though I game in Windows), but there's nothing stopping me from running an appropriate distro in a VM and testing from there.  I can do the same for Windows and Linux if need be (not keen on building using my host OS. FreeBSD is my all-time favorite though).  Plus I'd be able to give feedback on how it works with a clean install.

Okay... here's what I'll do.  Since everyone has been so kind to me, I'll fire up PS again, delete my cursed character and start over (it would be nice to have an option to skip the tutorial!!).  I find myself rooting for PS as it's the first Open Source MMORPG I've found that's actually playable.  If you're serious about having another tester, email me (I'm sure ya'll have access to my hidden email address) and I'll get back to you with my personal email address and we'll go from there.

In the meantime, I'm off to go "VARPing" ...  *chuckle*

neko kyouran

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2008, 04:51:12 am »
I wish more complaint threads were like this one......

Oomi

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2008, 07:17:53 am »
Vuman -

I cannot peek at your private email address currently, but go to the top left of the page after you've logged in to the forum and check your messages - there should be one with my email addy in it. You are more than welcome to send me a message if you wish.

Raa

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2008, 08:04:42 am »
Wow, I love you Vuvman. Exactly how I feel about Planeshift, just... Kinder, lul. Finally, a constructive complaint that isn't about something stupid.

vuvman

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Re: My Experience with PS (and why I'm not playing it any more)
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2008, 09:32:49 am »
I wish more complaint threads were like this one......
Wow, I love you Vuvman. Exactly how I feel about Planeshift, just... Kinder, lul. Finally, a constructive complaint that isn't about something stupid.

Gosh... all this love...  I need to pinch myself.   X-/  LOL

Vuman -

I cannot peek at your private email address currently, but go to the top left of the page after you've logged in to the forum and check your messages - there should be one with my email addy in it. You are more than welcome to send me a message if you wish.

I got your msg.  You should have an email from me shortly. It's 1:30am here and I'm starting to get dizzy.  I'll be quick.

Night Everyone!!