PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: rakshak on January 04, 2009, 01:27:19 am
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[This entire post is OOC. I'm posting it here because I didn't know where else to post it
There was a scam today, in PlaneShift, in the name of "Xiosia" and "roleplay". Some people start a roleplay, drop all their items including armor, weapons, sacs, glyphs and even guildhouse keys. Then they all commit suicide, saying "Xiosia will make them semi-Gods after they come out of Death Realm". Apparently some veteran players were also there, so it all looks believable. As soon as all players reach death realm, one of the players has an alt ready at the suicide site, and he picks up everything and leaves.
If anybody asks you to use /die command during RP after dropping your items, do not do it. They may try to disguise this as "using a knife to die" but never use /die when you dropped your items on the ground. Report it to a GM instead.
Thanks for reading and have a pleasant time]
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[Really, IMHO, anyone who complains about this being OOC is a mega-whiner. Donari perfectly orchestrated an awesome scam. Saying he had the name 'Xiosia' holds absolutely no merit, because saying the name is there is OOC, so you'd be just as bad. Anyone can come up to you and promise you immortality. The rabid believers simply were too trusting. Guess they learned a lesson to be wary, but it was all IC.
Your advising them to report it and not do it annoys me to no end however. If your character falls for an IC scam, but you can't handle the repercussions OOC, that's your problem, you should sort out the differences between IC and OOC on your own. Don't spread your thinking onto others.]
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[HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA]
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[I was there at the "role-play".
Someone at the rouge camp claimed to by Xiosia in the form of an old lady (I do have to admit though, she was a good RPer.) . She said that the darkness and greed in the world were killing her. In to save here she said that we will need to give up our greed, and thus dropping all of our items and tria. After this she thanks us and tells us that she will make us demi-gods. She led us to a clearing and gave us a knife. She said that death leeds to rebirth in the cycle of life (which made seance that Xiosia would say that) and then asked us to kill our selves. We waited at the entrance of the DR awhile waiting for her, but she never came.
She was a great role-player and she obviously did her research. But non the less I would still call it a scam. It also was not in character. If she was just a normal person pretending to be a goddess, she (roleplay) enchanted a dagger (which a normal person could not do), and did other (roleplay) spell that only a god could do. So thus, it was a scam.]
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[I have to wonder how many of the people who were not in on this were impressionable children, not everyone who plays this game has the life experience to resist something too good to be true. Then again this might have been approved by the gm's as more black flame backlash. Yliakum has become that much worse a place to live. Beware the evil tide.
hmm give up material items for great power, sounds like something greedy people would do.]
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[Okay, so I'm sitting on my couch, watching Television. I look at my dog and say "HURRRRRRRRRR" loudly. Then I turn to my mom and say my Dog's enchanted. If my mom believes me, she's gullible. If I sell the enchanted dog to her for an insane amount of money, she has just been SCAMMED.]
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[I have to wonder how many of the people who were not in on this were impressionable children, not everyone who plays this game has the life experience to resist something too good to be true. Then again this might have been approved by the gm's as more black flame backlash. Yliakum has become that much worse a place to live. Beware the evil tide.
hmm give up material items for great power, sounds like something greedy people would do.]
No player event has been or will be approved by the GM team at this point. From what we heard this all happened IC and the scam was fair play. We will not punish anyone because they RP an evil character.
If the baddies wish to return the items stolen as a nice thing to do for their fellow players, it's up to them. You can work something out OOCly so that both parties are happy.
If we find evidence that someone was trying to impersonate a GM or pretend to be hosting a GM event we will punish that person severely but so far, we have not seen such evidence.
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Unfortunately, this looks like a "fair", in character scam. There are examples of this kind of thing happening throughout history. A good example was in the year 1000 when countless people were scammed into selling their houses for almost nothing, convinced that the rapture was about to happen. Of course, the year 1000 came, and no rapture...
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[The character was named Xiosia? That's something that shouldn't be possible. Besides that, something of a mean thing to do, I suppose but, completely IC. I imagine bounty hunters will have a job once people come back from the Death Realm and realize what happened.
Only way this would really be considered an OOC scam is if people said /die functioned differently than it actually does OOC. "If you kill yourself you shall gain powers" is fine "[/die and you get powers]" isn't. Highly doubt Donari did that. Still, sorry for any who lost their items. Good luck retrieving them.]
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[I took part in this scam as you would call it and it was all done on both sides totally in character and it simply took advantage of the greed that has ensued from past events.
Just in real life, people can claim to be gods, goddesses, or immortal but no one at the event wished to demand any sort of proof so they were easy targets for the evil plans laid before them.
Players decide to have their characters play a variety of roles within the game so it is best that the players use reasoning to prevent being scammed by false profits promising immortality.
I thank everyone involved for being mature about the situation and I would welcome any form of in game retaliation that is within the game rules on those who have deceived you, would make a nice little event.
If it is later, found that this was in anyways outside of what should be done within the game I would of course yield over the gear I seized and the profits made from selling what I did. However, to my knowledge
I saw nothing but a good role-play scheme by an evil character with me and others in on the plot.
-Ikon]
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[Ok, so we have testimony from someone that they acted with the best of intentions regarding roleplay ethics.
It's true that people have been greedy when it comes to events. Events should be rewarding because they're fun, not because you'll get a collectible.
All in all, I say that it was a mean thing to do, but I don't think anyone should be punished. It would be nice if the items were returned though.]
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Very nice scam.
Congrats to the baddies. :thumbup:
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I have to admit - I was not there - and thus cannot comment on whether or not it was a scam - or just a well played piece of RP. Surely players must realise that using /die would leave their belongings unguarded, or if they are in a PvP area to drop something runs the risk of having someone /attack them without need of consent - thus leaving their items unguarded if they lose. As to putting down or dropping Keys to a guild house - that is solely the responsibility of the Player who has the Key [They surely should know that!]. IF it is only their own belongings - not others' well - they only have themselves to blame so long as at NO TIME did anyone claim to be a GM or use gods' names for a made up character by means of creating it with that name [i.e. the mechanic's label shows Xiosia] - rather than for instance - character 'Numfur' saying 'My name is Xiosia' and /me looks like she is a serene godlike person - that is just good RP.
I would expect members of my guild NEVER to give a key away to another player - without first checking with other players in the guild if they are happy with the Consiquences - i.e. the new holder of the key having access to the house and what that player might do 'in the name of RP' such as raid the house and clean it out.
The only things I think should be returned are any guild house keys - for the sake of other players who use those houses and who did not agree to/or have knowledge of said RP - otherwise it sounds like the RP was done with consent on both sides and mostly reads like it was good RP.
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Most things I was about to say were already mentioned. One person also dropped a guildhouse key, but naturally we did return it to the owner. The last thing I want to adress is a message to those who whine: The characters commiting the scam are NOT gone. They are still around. Your characters will have chances to get their stuff back, providing they (and not you, the player) find clues that lead to those responsible.
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[I doubt all those who were affected will have the good fortune of reading your post.]
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True, that is why some of them have been contacted in game.
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[I have returned the key and most of the items I Had. I also want all of those who had anything taken to look in their logs and send me a list of what they dropped. I will try to get ALL of the quest items returned. I can try to get the rest returned aswell but there is no guarantee that I can get it ALL returned. I can only promise to try.]
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I would suggest that next time you pull a scam like this say "Drop all your money" instead or "Drop everything". That would save us a lot of trouble since you can always make more money but losing irreplaceable quest items can cause a good share of grief, not to mention guildhouse keys. Think of it as nice thing to do as a player behind an evil character. You don't have to be nice but that makes our community better as not everyone has the RP experience to see the difference between being an IC bad guy and a RL one, and taking the time to avoid OOC misunderstandings is always good.
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Actually we wanted them to drop all their money too, but it turns out trias can only be dropped in stacks of 65, and for a lot of players that's quite a few stacks, so they kept their trias for the most part. I'd like to clear up, that the character claiming to be xiosia was not named xiosia, or anything even slightly similar. In fact, she looked like an old nasty woman with rotten teeth and foul breath, she asked the ones being "scammed" to sacrifice some more animals for her, and she even told them a man was evil, and tried to get them to kill him. People are so eager to get their rewards from GMs that they don't even think. I really can't take any complaints about this seriously, since basically a nasty evil looking woman asked everyone to drop their things on the ground and commit suicide.... and then they did. What would you expect to happen?
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Nice one ;D
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I really can't take any complaints about this seriously, since basically a nasty evil looking woman asked everyone to drop their things on the ground and commit suicide.... and then they did.
[/thread]
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...not everyone has the RP experience to see the difference between being an IC bad guy and a RL one, and taking the time to avoid OOC misunderstandings is always good.
[ That's one point I tried to make clear. Just in a slightly different context aka "Don't let OOC occasion (christmas) be the reason of making an IC gift-giving", for those "with less RP experience" will/do associate the one with the other.
It's kinda sad that that point was apparently not understood, IMHO. ]
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Wow. Drop it. Seriously.
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I heard about this event as it was going on from a guild member. I had my suspicions about it because of a couple of people I was told were there... Sorry Vanaka, but my character has met you a few times in-game and doesn't like you or trust you further than he could throw an ulbernaut.
However, with that said... this was an awesome scam. My character wouldn't have been able to pull it off... he would have felt guilty about conning people. However, if things were just lying on the ground when he happened by... that is another matter entirely...
I use the term scam to describe the IC event. There has been a LOT of IC talk about the recent Xiosia appearance, and someone decided to jump on it's coat tails with ill intent. This may have been devised OOC, but it was enacted IC with IC motives and knowledge. Sucks to be scammed, but this was a legitimate role play. Either evil characters are allowed to be evil, or they shouldn't be allowed... period. Get over it. :(
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I heard about this event as it was going on from a guild member. I had my suspicions about it because of a couple of people I was told were there... Sorry Vanaka, but my character has met you a few times in-game and doesn't like you or trust you further than he could throw an ulbernaut.
Well... you trust him more than some people. I personally do trust Vannaka. But thats becuase I seem to know him more than others. Who just judge him becuase he used to be PoC.
I use the term scam to describe the IC event. There has been a LOT of IC talk about the recent Xiosia appearance, and someone decided to jump on it's coat tails with ill intent. This may have been devised OOC, but it was enacted IC with IC motives and knowledge. Sucks to be scammed, but this was a legitimate role play.
Hehe... well... Neither Vannaka, Ikon or Myself did any of the planning. Vannaka stumbled across the RP and decided to join in. Me and Ikon came later. We realised what was going on and so we played along, IC, like rogues should. So, I would not only like to say that this was IC and OOC we are helping where we can, But also... I dont like the fact that you are all judging Vannaka, he has changed, RP with him, give him a chance to prove himself. Dont moan here unless you actually have a reason to.
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For the record, I do not know Vanaka the player... I have only come across Vanaka a few times in-game... and his conduct was not appreciated by my character. My dislike for Vanaka is purely IC, not based solely on his previous association with PoC... which did add to my characters dislike of him... being that my character supported the war against PoC...
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I heard about this event as it was going on from a guild member. I had my suspicions about it because of a couple of people I was told were there... Sorry Vanaka, but my character has met you a few times in-game and doesn't like you or trust you further than he could throw an ulbernaut.
Well... you trust him more than some people. I personally do trust Vannaka. But thats becuase I seem to know him more than others. Who just judge him becuase he used to be PoC.
Well honestly I don't mind him distrusting my character, that's perfectly reasonable if he knows Vannaka well enough... although I don't actually recall meeting Mythryndel (however it appears i must have). No idea how any of this crept into this particular thread though... perhaps someone should start a Vannaka thread. It would do wonders for my ego.
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perhaps someone should start a Vannaka thread. It would do wonders for my ego.
Shyeah. Like your ego needs any help. :P
On topic, however....I heard about this little IC 'scam' as it was happening, and I personally thought it was brilliant. As far as I could tell, the people involved remained IC . It isn't their fault that there are others in Yliakum that are greedy and gullible enough to think that if they give up their worldly posessions and commit mass suicide, they will gain favor with a God(dess). I have to say to those involved, well played, and for those that 'had a change of heart' and decided to give most, if not all of the stuff back that was picked up after the greedy ones were whisked away to the death realm, all I have to say is: You big softy! lol
Peace,
~rina
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[The characters involved will have a reputation for being chaotic evil if they keep the loot and chaotic good if they give the loot back. Are we all friends again?]
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[yeah... well mostly.. Catarina.. im not a softy.. I was asked OOC by a Kran who had lost all his possesions to reutrn as much as i could.. Im still going to RP it through.. as are the others.]
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[yeah... well mostly.. Catarina.. im not a softy.. I was asked OOC by a Kran who had lost all his possesions to reutrn as much as i could.. Im still going to RP it through.. as are the others.]
[There are ways you can get the items back to him without breaking character. Give his items to someone else, then tell him that you already sold his stuff to a trader near such and such a place. Then he can go there and have fun with the trader who may take pity on him, or have a job for him to do. Or whatever.]
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[Would do but im currently waiting to be arrested, they got Vannaka and Im guessing they are after the rest of us. But I am quite angry about the whole situation as "Xiosia herself revealed all the crimes we have ever commited to the gaurds" Now thats just a poor excuse to pin us down for something just so they dont get OOC hassle about taking no action.]
[This action also contradicts the idea that Xiosia has gone quiet for a while becuase of the BF backlash on the last couple of events]
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[Would do but im currently waiting to be arrested, they got Vannaka and Im guessing they are after the rest of us. But I am quite angry about the whole situation as "Xiosia herself revealed all the crimes we have ever commited to the gaurds" Now thats just a poor excuse to pin us down for something just so they dont get OOC hassle about taking no action.]
[There is corruption among the guards and politicians of Hydlaa, perhaps they simply invented the story in order to make the arrests?]
[This action also contradicts the idea that Xiosia has gone quiet for a while becuase of the BF backlash on the last couple of events]
[Then the devs have gone back and forth on this, my character had a personal encounter with Laanx once and I was later told to erase it from my character's history because the gods were to never interact directly with characters.
Does anyone else think that this thread should be moved to the complaint department?]
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[Does anyone else think that this thread should be moved to the complaint department?]
[Me :surrender:]
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....HAAHAHAHA HEHEHE!
omglol
That's hilarious. Noobs!
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Still around here, Raa? Damn, already made the crosses, having been sure you left, damn xD
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I'm gonna go a little off-topic here to clarify something:
(...)
[There is corruption among the guards and politicians of Hydlaa, perhaps they simply invented the story in order to make the arrests?]
Have you come across any concrete indicator that there is indeed corruption among guards? Or maybe your assuming there is because that's what you would expect IRL?
I'm not saying there is NO corruption whatsoever but this is another assumption players are far too quick to make, just like when it comes to atheism, players tend to bring in their RL conclusions on the subject instead of seeing things through what the game is throwing at them. They forget essential things about Yliakum society like it's not a democracy, for example, or that the Bill of Rights differs greatly from one you'd find IRL, or that civil disobedience is the same thing as treason (or close enough), or that the concept of police brutality doesn't exist, etc. More importantly, people overlook the fact that the Octarchy has absolute control of Yliakum and citizens are raised and educated so they grow to love it and fight for it. It is the closest thing to perfection and things that taint that are probably swept under the rug. Common folk would not be comfortable talking about corruption.
In that context, your RP should not resort to accusations of corruption at first glance. Does that mean corruption doesn't exist? No. It means it shouldn't be your first reaction, the same way saying "Don't teach religion in schools" in Yliakum would make little or no sense at all. It's a different world. Do not break the immersion by letting OOC experiences rule over your RP.
@Lokter: Your character has nothing to hide from and you might want to wait till you see what happens before you get angry. Don't be that guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzyd91NFx-Y). You haven't even heard the whole story and you're coming close to spoiling it for others. ;)
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Cheers Dajoji!
This rp was clever. My first reaction was rather bad, but I do appreciate the cleverness.
Also an important factor for me: It was a player generated rp that involved a crowd, something that's been missing somewhat in game.
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I can appreciate the cleverness, but what I dislike of the matter is the fact that it does hinge on occ knowledge. If the GMs had not had the Xiosia giveaway this would not have worked. I'm not blaming the GMs, but that basically set people up. And true, a certain amount of greed was involved, but I still think people should have been given a little more warning... Unless someone organizes an RP retaliation on those who would disrespect believe in the gods. ::) My other problem with it is that is seems like there isn't much way to respond to it ICly except for: "Hey, that's wrong!" X-/
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Why isn't there a way to retaliate? This was a RP event, so those involved are RPers... who I assume (yes, I know what happens when you assume) would be willing to RP consequences if they can be brought ICly.
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Have you come across any concrete indicator that there is indeed corruption among guards? Or maybe your assuming there is because that's what you would expect IRL?
It's revealed through quests.
This has nothing to do with atheism.
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Myth believe that it is the same people moderating the game as running official events . . . we got our eyes on folks.
For my perspective it goes like this: bad guys get crapped on enough by carebears so it's nice to see some badness carried off well.
For Xiosia's perspective: How dare those heathens impersonate my clergy?
We will have to wait and see how things play out . . . tune in next week!
Last note: I take personal responsibility for the genesis of the original Xiosia event, gms threw subsequent events but they did so with my approval, ultimately do not blame the gms (credit them for what is good, but blame me for what is bad).
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This has nothing to do with atheism.
Not regarding the topic itself but it does share the fact that people are failing to acknowledge the settings led by their own RL convictions, not the experience their characters would have.
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This has nothing to do with atheism.
Not regarding the topic itself but it does share the fact that people are failing to acknowledge the settings led by their own RL convictions, not the experience their characters would have.
Not even slightly. The proof is in the quests added to the game by the settings team. You're injecting your own personal beliefs into the discussion.
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Not regarding the topic itself but it does share the fact that people are failing to acknowledge the settings led by their own RL convictions, not the experience their characters would have.
This would be true if atheism in PS matched it's actual definition which it doesn't. Saying everyone in PS must worship a god is like saying everyone in RL must get health insurance. It helps, it's nice to have a net, but not everyone is willing to spend the time/money/effort to get that net and will not worship/get health insurance.
edit: Wow, I was almost positive this was in the other thread... I feel dumb now.
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I'll say it again: corruption does exist in Yliakum. However, even though you might feel very original playing the corruption card as a plot twister, sadly, you are not. Why? Because everyone does it. It's the easiest and simplest way to roleplay your interactions with the guards. Not only does it ignore the essentials I listed above but it's also very cliche. Now, this has little to do with the main topic of the thread so if you wish to discuss it further, I suggest a thread split or a new post. However, I've said all I had to say on the matter.
And just for the record, I am speaking from experience, since I often play a guard and know first hand how people RP around them. So, let me put it in bullets so it is crystal clear:
- There is corruption in Yliakum...
- ...but cases of corruption are rare and often swept under the rug
- ...So don't act like you hear about them every day.
Don't be let Mary-Sue (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33351.0) lead your roleplay. You can do better than that. Don't make the exception become the rule when it is clearly stated that it isn't (and that applies to religion as well).
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I'll say it again: corruption does exist in Yliakum. However, even though you might feel very original playing the corruption card as a plot twister, sadly, you are not. Why? Because everyone does it. It's the easiest and simplest way to roleplay your interactions with the guards. Not only does it ignore the essentials I listed above but it's also very cliche. Now, this has little to do with the main topic of the thread so if you wish to discuss it further, I suggest a thread split or a new post. However, I've said all I had to say on the matter.
And just for the record, I am speaking from experience, since I often play a guard and know first hand how people RP around them. So, let me put it in bullets so it is crystal clear:
- There is corruption in Yliakum...
- ...but cases of corruption are rare and often swept under the rug
- ...So don't act like you hear about them every day.
Don't be let Mary-Sue (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33351.0) lead your roleplay. You can do better than that. Don't make the exception become the rule when it is clearly stated that it isn't (and that applies to religion as well).
So you agree with me that there is corruption in Yliakum?
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consumers are there to encourage corruption..... ???
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consumers are there to encourage corruption..... ???
What Dajoji doesn't seem to understand is that I wasn't simply injecting my personal beliefs into the discussion. Instead, my opinion was based on in-game content such as quests.
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@Zanzibar... What you appear to not comprehend is:
A. Your statements are seriously Off-Topic in this thread
B. Your statements are irrelevant to the topic at hand based on what Dajoji has stated at least twice now.
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@Zanzibar... What you appear to not comprehend is:
A. Your statements are seriously Off-Topic in this thread
B. Your statements are irrelevant to the topic at hand based on what Dajoji has stated at least twice now.
C. There was an IC scam. Someone asked if it was within the settings. I answered. Then Dajoji accused me of injecting my personal opinion into the discussion, and I countered his accusation.
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Do not feel accused, I was not talking about you specfically. I went off-topic to point out the circumstances in which corruption should be RPed. Never did I deny the existence of corruption in Yliakum. I was merely pointing out that it shouldn't be your first plot choice since it does not happen in Yliakum the same way it happens IRL. My observation was not entirely related to the scam itself but the reference you made about the guards.
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Do not feel accused, I was not talking about you specfically. I went off-topic to point out the circumstances in which corruption should be RPed. Never did I deny the existence of corruption in Yliakum. I was merely pointing out that it shouldn't be your first plot choice since it does not happen in Yliakum the same way it happens IRL. My observation was not entirely related to the scam itself but the reference you made about the guards.
But there are corrupt guards, and it's not just my opinion -- quests prove it. Is it rare? Likely. It's also likely that it's not a black and white thing. Even good guards might bend the rules once in a while, just like any other authority.
Which is more believable? That a god came down and interacted with mortals, or that some guards exaggerated to make their jobs easier?
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Do not feel accused, I was not talking about you specfically. I went off-topic to point out the circumstances in which corruption should be RPed. Never did I deny the existence of corruption in Yliakum. I was merely pointing out that it shouldn't be your first plot choice since it does not happen in Yliakum the same way it happens IRL. My observation was not entirely related to the scam itself but the reference you made about the guards.
But there are corrupt guards, and it's not just my opinion -- quests prove it. Is it rare? Likely. It's also likely that it's not a black and white thing. Even good guards might bend the rules once in a while, just like any other authority.
Which is more believable? That a god came down and interacted with mortals, or that some guards exaggerated to make their jobs easier?
You tell me, it's a world where Gods do show up and there's no right answer to your question so that line of discussion is probably pointless.
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I have a hard time thinking of it as so black and white, but it is a fantasy setting so I guess anything is possible.
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Zanzibar, shush! i thought you were trying to stop your trolly arguing for the sake of arguing?
Dajoji is saying that YES there are corrupt guards. But it is very RARE. A character's first conclusions (or even second, third, etc.) should not lead to corruption among guards, because that'd sort of be like suggesting that Superman was streaking stark naked through Metropolis killing innocent people, laughing hysterically, and beating up Lois Lane. Sure, it's a very vague possibility, but if you suggested it people'd say you were mad. Dajoji is merely stating not to let real world 'realities' to influence your RP of Yliakum's realities. You must remember, the Octarchy is backed by the gods/goddesses. It's very likely they can find most 'corruption' almost immediately and stamp it out. Outside of the towns and cities is a different story obviously, but the Octarchy has made it clear that the wilderness is not their responsibility and that people are on their own out there.
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If someone in a roleplaying game brought up the fact that they had seen Superman doing what you had said in an OOC context and it had happened in an IC context, I would expect to hear about why it had happened.