PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Aewa on January 14, 2009, 02:13:41 pm
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I first want to thank each and every person who plays Planeshift and the PS crew and everybody who helped Planeshift get ahead, in creating a great free game. As a project Planeshift has acomplissed much and that should be aplauded.
I made this post in the hope that other people will come up with even greater idee's then mine , and in doing so, we will help the PS crew make a better game for us all.
I play PS my self, in all its aspects. I am both a RP'er and a Powerleveler, I write here using my Aewa avatar as the spoke's person because, I feel she is both respected by the RP'ers & Powerlevelers alike, allthough for diffrent reasons.
I am totaly oblivious to how other MMORPG's work like WoW or others, I have played board/home RP games , like (direct trans from the dutch name) "The Eye of the Master", Planeshift is the first MMORPG I play online. I have been playing PS for more then a year now, with some brakes in between.
Lets get on with the show,
I understand when I ask around in IRC that the PS crew intention is to create a RP game, I have heared people say things like, "We dont want to be a ADHD game like WoW, Planeshift is an RP game". I am not part of the PS crew so I have no idee what the precies goal of PS is, but I presume it is RP'ing like you would play a RP game at home. What ever the goal of PS might or not might be, I think the game should be fun to play and not try to devide its community , by bad game mechanics.
The major current flaw of PS is,
That it has created two community's who see each other as the rotten apple, this has happened in my opinion because , the stated goals of the game are not implemented in game mechanics. You have people RP'ing that they imagine that they are all powerfull, without doing ever any real PS training, on the other hand you have fully maxed people who never RP.
These two groups go at each others throath and claim the right way.
This has happened in my opinion because the games mechanics allow this devide to take place. Its not the players fault that there are two groups, its the way the game is implemented that causes it.
Wich brings me to, "waisting your time and getting dumber",
waisting 3 months in electricity bills pressing (in my case) the V key, to dig to get your training payed, is a very bad game concept.
The game concept only exist because nobody could come up with a better idee, but it doesnt make for a fun and interacting game.
I believe that a good game makes people want to work together and that training and getting ahead in PS should be a fun concept not mindless time waisting keypressing, like its now.
Also the time waist concept favours people like me who got a lot of free time (at least for the moment) , over people who work hard in a factory or an office all day , who are making the real world turn, those people lose out because they dont have the time to grind, helping in creating the devide that exsist in PS.
I believe that leveling up should be rethinked and a new and inventive new game concept should be thought up. RP should be rewarded by game mechanics, not just people imagining things in their head, because I dont need Planeshift to imagine things and can just play with RL people at home. I dont claim that my idee is the way forward, but something must change from the current grinding to level concept or PS will kill it self in the end. With the oposing groups fire nukes at each other.
I propose a "Cast" system where you need "promotion points from your peers" to get ahead in PS , not only money & PP. If people can promote each other , lets say every month or every week , the game would look a lot more like a home RP game where the game master promotes the players at the end of a game. You could see it as a system to get points for good RP.
I have not realy thought this fully thru yet, but ... lets give an example of how this might work for a ficticius magic way, lets call it Greenway. Lets say maximum Greenway is 100, each 10 levels is a "Cast" , you can train 10 levels and then you have reached your maximum level for the "Cast" your in, you now need first to get "Cast" promotion points to get to the next "Cast" and in doing so being able to level up from 10 to 20 in Greenway, and so on.
The "Cast" points only are for one branch of magic or skill, so to get to the next "Cast" in Greenway, you need "Greenway Cast" promotion points. You will get these points from people who are in a higher "Cast" then you are, with a sort of exponential more points at the higher echalons to give away, GM's could be in the highest cast for instance when the system would start, and stear PS more in an RP way. The cost in tria an PP for leveling up could go down to more sane levels , giving people more time to RP, and making the RP worth real points in game.
The "Cast" promotion points could also be devided by other means then just for good RP'ing, I can imagine people can win and lose "Cast" points by fighting each other, but then only for things like sword or axe skill , to get fully maxed you would still need to do some RP to get the other "Cast" points, but at the same time keeping people who have a lot of time or dont want to RP that day, happy by giving them something to do/fight over.
My basic point is however that RP should be rewarded by no fooling real game points to get ahead in PS, not just by people's imagination, or PS will never be a RP game wich it claims to be.
Awaiting your reaction and hopefully even better idee's then mine,
Love to you all , Aewa
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I propose a "Cast" system where you need "promotion points from your peers" to get ahead in PS , not only money & PP. If people can promote each other , lets say every month or every week , the game would look a lot more like a home RP game where the game master promotes the players at the end of a game. You could see it as a system to get points for good RP.
I have not realy thought this fully thru yet, but ... lets give an example of how this might work for a ficticius magic way, lets call it Greenway. Lets say maximum Greenway is 100, each 10 levels is a "Cast" , you can train 10 levels and then you have reached your maximum level for the "Cast" your in, you now need first to get "Cast" promotion points to get to the next "Cast" and in doing so being able to level up from 10 to 20 in Greenway, and so on.
The "Cast" points only are for one branch of magic or skill, so to get to the next "Cast" in Greenway, you need "Greenway Cast" promotion points. You will get these points from people who are in a higher "Cast" then you are, with a sort of exponential more points at the higher echalons to give away, GM's could be in the highest cast for instance when the system would start, and stear PS more in an RP way. The cost in tria an PP for leveling up could go down to more sane levels , giving people more time to RP, and making the RP worth real points in game.
The "Cast" promotion points could also be devided by other means then just for good RP'ing, I can imagine people can win and lose "Cast" points by fighting each other, but then only for things like sword or axe skill , to get fully maxed you would still need to do some RP to get the other "Cast" points, but at the same time keeping people who have a lot of time or dont want to RP that day, happy by giving them something to do/fight over.
My basic point is however that RP should be rewarded by no fooling real game points to get ahead in PS, not just by people's imagination, or PS will never be a RP game wich it claims to be.
Awaiting your reaction and hopefully even better idee's then mine,
Love to you all , Aewa
a "cast" system like you suggest will cause even more issues ingame, as people will have to vote for people and those that are not liked for some reason will not be able to do anything.
also take a look at http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34586
Planeshift might be a rp focused game but that does not mean we have to stop people from playing that dont rp 27/4 when they are ingame.
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I never suggested that people should be forced to RP, i am talking about the devide that exist in PS,
Also i dont claim my idee is the best or anything i am happy to hear better idee's, and yes, some people don't like you, others will, its called life, you are making it sound as if you don't trust the players to make those dessicions. I trust the players will vote the right way.
The second PS server is a great idee from the PS crew, a place where user input can be put to the test if needed.
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if you look at the forum you can see that some players cant even act like adults yet to vote for others so they can power lvl up to their highest lvl possible, we dont want the players to have to ask others to vote for them which in this case is out of character even more then what they do right now. for now i would wait for what the devs have to suggest. and by adding such a system if you cant get your votes people will leave the game and never return.
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If there are sencible people at the top of the voting when a system like that is implemented and also afterwards, like apointed GM's who give points , they could make sure what you describe would not happen. Unless the GM's want to vote away people too.
When you are in a low Cast you can give less points away then people at the top, assuming that the more sencible people will reach the top cast in such a system , it will assure that a fair way of giving points is astablished.
Alternatively you could give people also Cast points for the length of time they have their acount, rewarding people who have created an acount a long time ago.
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Two things:
First, Carrie is right in that votes would lead to more OOC, and probably abuse. Besides, uncrowded time zones are to suffer again, as if they are not unfortunate enough, already.
Second, the RPer-leveler guerrilla is a forum one. I played for more than a year long before I joined the forum, and all this time I was never aware of such problems. Just to say that the conflict of some does exist, but is overrated IMO.
And to me, apart from being unfair, RP doesn't need to be rewarded. A good RP is the reward.
Now what you said about fun, grinding, etc., is pertinent, and ideas are always welcome. To me, the ideal game would have all its aspects (and mechanics) attractive, and would provide fun when people are around as well as when one is alone. The latter is pretty much there already. If the game can make the same player happy when dueling, when fishing, cooking, crafting, exploring, questing, etc., then the former is reach as well. In a sense, progressing in a skill would be the best if it would lead to more fun using that same skill.
I know it's a very general idea, but that would be my answer to "let's make a better game".
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Blaming mechanics on a divide that exists everywhere isn't going to fly with me. The internet is rife with mockeries of rpers done by the type of people that enjoy and engage in the rules of the game.
Similar suggestions have been proposed before and the problem always comes down to the fact that it would be abused and there is really no way to police its abuse.
Roleplayers might not even be the source of the abuse, but a well intentioned feature could very well lead to more outcry than currently exists.
The way that training is now is NOT to be taken as final in any way.
I mean no disrespect to your idea Aewa but it isn't that new and we might well attempt something that has aspects of this in the future.
I can tell you that after YEARS of trying to gently nudge plers and rpers to get along I don't really have much interest in trying that anymore.
People on Laanx WILL respect roleplay, and people on Ezps do not have to.
I won't spend time hashing out this debate on this forum any longer.
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Hi, Thank you for your post. I would just like to add to the responses you have recieved already.
As for voting/rewarding people for RPs. GMs can already reward people if they see an excellent RP going on. Unfortunatly we very rarely do so because it would cause friction. We would be accused of favouring some over others just because we are not watching every RP that is happening. We are stuck between these two camps, the PLers and RPers. We have come to realise that no matter what we do to make one group happier, innevitably makes the other side less happy.
Hopefully the new server should make everyone happy :flowers:
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I wanted to add this , and i found my self locked out of my own topic after creating it in one hour time, it feels like your stopped from saying anything weird, i feel hurt, I feel censorred.
This topic: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34590.msg397610#msg397610
I was writting a response and got locked out, i wanted to add this ...
The idee that it would lead to abuse asumes that the GM's would abuse the system as well, again i trust the players & GM's to be fair over the minority who just wants to freck around and hurt others for fun, every system has it pro's and con's. I had not thought about a time zone problem, that is a fair issue, wich could be compensated presumably by fair GM's in theory, but I agree that it could be a potential problem.
But I have thought about this long and hard, I see no otherway to give RP real meaning in PS then by people voting for points, unless we all have mega zillion cpu cores in our pc and an AI way can be implemented where we get points for great RP judged by the PS AI. Its the basic thing that devides the RP home/board games and PS, at home people get rewarded after playing a nice game good RP or not, mostly decided on who laughed the most ;-) , in PS you only get rewarded for leveling , in the game mechanics. Its nice to say that RP'ing is its own reward, that can be enough for some players , but it doesn't do anything to take the currently well established and exsisting divide away.
I never come to the PS forum (normaly, now i have to to see what happens with this post *correction not anymore it seems), and I am unaware of or saw the devide on the forum because i never come her but play the game, I see it happening for real in game.
Its a game issue not a forum issue.
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I also wanted to add that i just came back after 3 months of not playing PS, and maybe 1 year since i have posted something here, if the things i have said requir a forum shutdown within one hour after well thinking about what i have said, i don't want to be a part of this club anymore.
I asure you this will be my last PS forum post, have fun all.
Greatings Aewa
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You can only pm after you have made ten posts.
It violates forum rules to bring up a topic after it has been locked.
I don't think you should leave simply because your topic got locked, it was locked because it has been discussed countless times already.
Censorship is not what you think it is if you consider a thread lock censorship.
I will let you get in your ten posts here before locking the thread, and I will let others have this last chance to discuss rp vs. pl for a while longer before I am finally and completely done with this topic.
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There is no such thing as RP vs PL (Yes, I just said that). Even people who would be associated with pure powerlevelling enjoy roleplay. I have created a character, Alwydia, who spends all her time in camp banished. Contrary to what every roleplay thinks, there is no griefing going on there. And the people that come there might not be the best roleplayers (I do not refer to any people who read this post and have roleplayed with Alwydia :P), but they roleplay. A little at a time, but they roleplay. And this is where the community shoud emphasize on. Not having a grind server where the disliked PLers are going to, but to provide each other some stimulation to have fun. And the roleplayers need those that grind. After all not everyone can be a writer, a poet and whatever or they would die from hunger. If you really want to do something against the "split", go and roleplay. Don't hesitate to approach and involve people in your roleplay.
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Bravo Donari. Bravo.
I have a question, for anyone out there qualified to answer it... Am I a roleplayer, or a powerleveler? Is Shangshi a roleplayer, or a powerleveler? Is Orgonwukh a roleplayer, or a powerleveler?
/me shrugs
I'm probably not qualified to answer, but i think the answer is yes.
(pardon me for only mentioning two names besides my own, there are many, just to lazy to think of them all)
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One can be both. Just not as often are people good at both.
For example one may keep IC when chatting, but levels every skill that's available. Not really good roleplay. For example all the people who are now 'miners' because plat is imbalanced. Or all the people who are suddenly BW mages because it's imbalanced. Now I'm not the best roleplayer ever, I've powerleveled skills because the character I was attempting to play was meant to have them. I am fairly sure though, that I lean more towards being a roleplayer than a powerleveler.
In all honesty, I find those that don't train skills that have to do with their characters to be 'bad roleplayers' in a certain respect. Much more tolerable than the other end of the spectrum, but still, it makes little sense for a warrior to have no skill in swords, or a mage to have no skills in any of the ways. If they're not going to train any of those skills they should roleplay weak warriors, or incompetent mages.
Just my 2 cents.
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I have a question, for anyone out there qualified to answer it... Am I a roleplayer, or a powerleveler?
Um.. I am qualified to answert that.. well about you anyway...
The answer is that you do both, you RP and you level, maybe not levelling to the extent you used to, but you still do both. ANYONE can do both. I am trying to lead an RP guild (along with Vannaka and Garris) aswell as level my stats. It is farily simple. it just requires you ro sacrifice a bit of time from RP or a bit of time from levelling to do them both :)
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If you role play, you are a roleplayer.
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How about instead of looking at it as PL vs. RP we look at the player divisions as "selfish" and "selfless"? Selfish acts seek to increase the notoriety and/or status of one's character without regards to the impact on other players, game development or settings continuity.
A selfish RP'er will seek to dominate all scenes in which they act, they will attempt to rewrite settings without thought to the continuity of the world and its history, they will always have to "win" by being the most powerful or the most dramatic or the most persecuted or the most .... of everything. A selfless RP'er will strive to augment the experience of other players and enrich the story of Yliakum as presented by the NPC's, the many books throughout the libraries and whatever other pieces of lore may be gathered and extended upon. A believable world comes about when we all have flaws and foibles amidst our moments of greatness and grandeur and when we are all attempting to tell story that has continuity and coherence.
A selfish PL'er will never report an exploit or glitch, he will use every advantage that can be gained to increase his strength relative to that of his fellow players. Furthermore a selfish PL'er will stick to the one or two methods of self-aggrandizement that are the most lucrative to the exclusion of all others. A selfless PL'er will seek out and report bugs, will train all stats and ways and skills as the engine team has implemented them and train other players in doing the same.
A selfless RPer is the best friend of Settings, a selfless PL'er is the best friend of the Engine and both make the Planeshift experience better for their fellow player.
A selfish player is a friend to no one.
The question to ask is not "Am I a PL'er or an RP'er" , the proper question is "Am I selfish or selfless?"
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/me stands up and applauds Smekel.
I don't get the issue at all. I consider myself to be a dedicated roleplayer (many consider me one of the best), and I have never had an issue playing side by side with the 'RPers' or the 'PLers'. I just adjust my play a bit, and have fun in any situation.
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PLEASE don't flame-broil me... but that seems to really be the issue UtM... you "adjust your play a bit"... There are those vocal few here on the forums who are digging in their heels and refusing to budge. They explain this stance by saying that too many concessions have already been given to the non-RP crowd... :(
I'm personally excited by the opportunities this new server provides. We can all have a little bit of breathing room... and all get to share in this great game we've all come to enjoy so much.
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/me stands up and applauds Smekel.
I don't get the issue at all. I consider myself to be a dedicated roleplayer (many consider me one of the best), and I have never had an issue playing side by side with the 'RPers' or the 'PLers'. I just adjust my play a bit, and have fun in any situation.
Exactly. I have friends ingame that some would call absolute die-hard PLers, and others that would be classified as the polar opposite die-hard RPer... i have never had a problem adjusting my roleplay to get along well with both sides of the spectrum (and that doesnt necessarily mean going OOC with your character either :P ). I am pretty sure that since i didn't try to jam my own way of RPing down their throats, they were more willing to try to be IC then get offended and ignore me. No one likes being told how to take enjoyment from a game..if some don't like RPing then they shouldn't have roleplay rules jammed down their throats, just like those that aren't made happy by training don't have to train if they would rather roleplay with their friends. As soon as you start telling someone how they are supposed to play a game that they are playing for "fun" anyways...it defeats the whole purpose of a "game" :P Why even bother?
And before i get flamed....im not saying that its ok to run around ROTFLAWLing all the time in the main channel :P I am trying to say that maybe if people tried a bit to respect the way that their peers choose to play this game for fun, then they would get more respect in return for THEIR way of playing.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense..im tired and a bit loopy atm ;) please don't flame me too much
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Very well spoken Anumesa \\o//, that is what i was trying to say there is no need to divide into 2 servers :(
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that is what i was trying to say there is no need to divide into 2 servers :(
I think it is to late for that. The dev's have spoken.
As they say, "Be careful for what you wish for."
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[Despite my own misgivings about the PS forums, I'll write something.
Point 1:
People on Laanx WILL respect roleplay, and people on Ezps do not have to.
Right. But nailing RP to be as inflexible for players as possible seems counterproductive as well. That's not an attack on RP, but it is an attack on 'We say this is RP so you cannot do anything else than what we say' sort of RP. I'm not saying that this is a consensus position of the team, but it is a mindset that I have encountered. Take that for what it's worth (and not personally).
Point 2: Combat. Combat is an attractive part of any game. Unless one is going to sit around in a city all day, leveling is necessary - and I daresay at least some aspects of powerleveling should be expected. It isn't as if one can train in the arena a few hours a day and have a fair shot at some of the things along the *roadway* such as the 40 PP Ulbernauts or the Cutthroats. There is a very high power curve when it comes to the beasties with little in the way of progression. This also points to quests requiring their pound of flesh, if you take my point.
Point 3: Skills. Skills haven't advanced to a point where anything but mining and smelting and *some* crafting is useful. Plus there's a skew. Gold, apparently, was throttled which means everyone mines platinum (I'm interested in how plat mine changes will affect that, reserving myself on that). Platinum smelting happens at a very high level of metallurgy, which means people have been bypassing gold (and silver) and offering their sacrifice to the Carpal Tunnel System God to powerlevel... metallurgy. Sword making is, apparently, lucrative - but only after one can sell extremely high quality stuff. Bronze is somewhat odd in that it's components are far apart whereas the components of steel are typically within spitting distance of each other. And the mining skill is generally considered useless (though I have continued to train it...).
And whether a bug or not, some quests require quantum leaps in skills that, despite the best efforts of pillows everywhere, do not happen overnight.
Point 4: Quests are all nice and warm and fuzzy, to a point, but when a player has to log in to run a character across vast expanses of terrain a player with a brain (I acknowledge Caarie's point on maturity there too) will plan things. 'OK, I need to train this, this, and that there. And I have these quests to complete which require me to be there). So they plan things, and to meet those plans - who wants to run all the way across Yliakum to do one thing then have to go back within the next 30 minutes or hour? So that sort of planning does, in fact, 'force' people to 'powerlevel' to a point.
Point 5: GM Events that I have seen have been rather outlandish in their scale when it comes to attacking players or attempting to hold a resource hostage. So a player gets his or her posterior handed to them, and they think... "If only my character was a few levels higher, we would have had a chance!". A discerning player kind of knows that a GM can always beat the best player - it comes with the title - but still, the gauntlet is thrown down. This is further exacerbated by a GM event which tosses out skills to people when said skills could take months, or years (or in the case of RP-only players, decades) to acquire in a world where players dual one another and often compete for the same resources... Especially when players of all skill levels compete for the same resources all the time.
Point 6: No striations in resources for players of different skill levels leads to power leveling to compete for the same resources - vicious cycle. To get more resources, one has to grow more powerful to compete with the person with maxed brown way who is using all the resources all the time to get to the next level... for whatever reason.
Point 6: The 'RP as an excuse to be a jerk' routine is acceptable, but becomes irksome - especially when it comes to point 6.
Point 7: Certainly, Players can RP better. But players are constantly placed in positions that require power leveling to RP. So while players can RP better, the environment could certainly be made more conducive for it.
Point 8: Hydlaa cries of 'GUARDS!' by players might make one think that something interesting is going on. Cry 'Wolf' too many times, and... :-\ In a world where EVERY RPer seems to think that they have the right to impose their version of RP on everyone else, and where the development team stands ready to do the same, what is a player really supposed to do?
Point 9: Related to possible answers based on heuristic study of the forums: "Yes, I have considered joining the team but Talad hasn't gotten to answering my email of concerns." We can move past that discussion.
]
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Zontick, you have to "point 6", + a reference to it inside one of them.
About your worries, I don't worry.
RPers come in all forms and shapes, with all kinds of skills. And the balance in economy/resources/... will readjust itslef if need be.
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just a couple of points to reply to
As a player I am a Roleplayer and much to a lot of peoples disgust I didn't choose to spend my valuable game time levelling (had done that with my first char back when CB first came out) so the first few points are of little relevence to me, but live n let live I say.
Point 5. actually most GM's get pwned despite having high stats, especially by experienced duellers, our only advantage is we dont have to run back from DR
Point 9. Talad not replying, well thats a bit like expecting a personal reply from Bill Gates or Mike Morhaime, he is a very busy person in rl as well as with PlaneShift
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I personally feel if the quests are more designed to the end that you could level pretty high from just doing the quests you would get more imersion and less distance between roleplayer (who will sooner do a well written quest then simply grind) and a powerleveler (who will sooner get involved in the story if quests are easy to step into and deliver good rewards).
The problem with the grinding ingame is that making money and leveling doesn't seem to be related to quests and roleplaying on the otherside.
If you look at grinding in a game as World of Warcraft useally if you have completed most quests in an area you are also leveled enough to go do other quests in a different area. The quest itself normally gets you the experience and money you need. Both from the questreward itself as from the monsters you need to slay to complete the quest.
If you want to close the gap with gamemechanics I really think quests are the place to start.
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Things are out of balance?
Welcome to the alpha phase of planeshift.
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@Garile: Wouldn't taking the grind out of the game also be a solution? (There are numerous ways this could be done.)
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I personally feel if the quests are more designed to the end that you could level pretty high from just doing the quests you would get more imersion and less distance between roleplayer (who will sooner do a well written quest then simply grind) and a powerleveler (who will sooner get involved in the story if quests are easy to step into and deliver good rewards).
Well, doing quests hasn't much to do with roleplaying. Why you ask? Is it really suitable for every character to run around asking every person (NPC) he meets if they have any job for him and then do whatever this person wants? If you are a "true" roleplayer you would do only quests which suit your character, wouldn't you. And only few characters would run around asking if somebody needs something to be done. Most would "stumble" into quests, if you know what I mean.
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@Xilix
It was the alpha phase 6 years ago. It's an exuse for things not being done but you can only use that exuse for that long. That may sound harsh but a comment like yours is a discusion killer and not an argument.
@Zanzibar: True enough. I have used Guildwars as an example how they made level 20 the top and making it easy to obtain that level and easy to obtain the best armor focussing on PVP and skills instead of the grind. ofcourse they put in very expensive armor in the game just so people who still want to grind have a goal but you really don't have to to do everything you want in the game.
But the develepors have made it clear they want to make it a game aswell, so no leveling at all might be a solution but not an option for the devs. The question then is how can you make the game so you level without the grind? The most simple answer I think making use of gamemechanics is to increase questrewards.
If you get both tria and experience doing quests you won't have that grind feeling or atleast a lot less.
@Kaityra
True not all roleplayers will want to quest. Even if it is written by the shakespeare of today and even if it gives you mountains of gold some people will still not do it that way and will play the game differently. My idea isn't that it will suddenly have everyone questing.
My idea however is that persuading roleplayers to make the step to go questing now and then is a lot easier then to persuade roleplayers to go grind. Questing gives you more information about the world around you and I think many roleplayers are probably already doing a lot of quests even if it is as an OOC action. If you then make it so they also gain enough rewards to build up their character the way they want to play their character you have brought them a little closer to the powerlevelers who are often annoyed by roleplayers playing something they are not.
On the other hand powerlevelers will do questing for the rewards they will get via grinding anyhow and that way you make sure they get to know the world bringing them a step closer to the roleplayers, becuase their annoyance often is that powerlevelers sometimes don't even know what an enki is.
Is it THE solution of all things? *smiles* No but I do think if you redo the questsystem a little or simply edit the questrewards and make the next quests with this in mind that you bring the two groups closer together and more importantly perhaps give the game a more finished feel.
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Things are out of balance?
Welcome to the alpha phase of planeshift.
Yes we know it's an alpha. But that isn't really a defense when you're discussing player roleplay vs. powerleveling - when the infrastructure doesn't support the wishes of the developers. My take is that sure, players may be a problem - but players have excuses.
So, I'd like to welcome you to the alpha phase of PlaneShift, Xillix.
Touche.
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Zontick, you have to "point 6", + a reference to it inside one of them.
That was done on purpose due to the recursion implicit in the "I'm RPing a jerk" defense.
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just a couple of points to reply to
As a player I am a Roleplayer and much to a lot of peoples disgust I didn't choose to spend my valuable game time levelling (had done that with my first char back when CB first came out) so the first few points are of little relevence to me, but live n let live I say.
Unfortunately, I wasn't talking specifically about you. In fact, you'll forgive me if I admit I don't know who you are. From your response below, you're a GM.
Point 5. actually most GM's get pwned despite having high stats, especially by experienced duellers, our only advantage is we dont have to run back from DR
You've just reinforced my powerleveling point, whether you agree or not. Thank you.
Point 9. Talad not replying, well thats a bit like expecting a personal reply from Bill Gates or Mike Morhaime, he is a very busy person in rl as well as with PlaneShift
I don't care if Talad responds or not, and I don't think I would compare him to the people you mentioned. I've volunteered on enough things in the past to know that I will only do it on terms I find acceptable in the future. The same would apply to Bill Gates (who I wouldn't volunteer to work with), Linus Torvalds (if I really want to work on that sort of low level code again) or Barack Obama. I'm fairly certain that Talad doesn't wear his clothing in any way that varies too greatly from anyone else on the planet.
As for the rest - well, consider this: You presented a GM perspective. I presented a player perspective. Neither of us can give both perspectives (unless you have Planck's Constant in your pocket). I appreciate your GM perspective. I ask that you appreciate a constructive user perspective. Fair?
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I think people are making a GIANT assumption here and putting words in the devs mouths... who said PS isn't progressing exactly the way the devs intended? Everything I have read says that they have goals for each release... and that they aren't worried about it being "finished" in any particular time frame. I think a handful of people have really gotten attached to the game and started attaching ownership to it simply because they have played it for so long.
Seriously people... this is just a game. I think that the current 2 server configuration will be good for all in the long run. I've been caught in the middle of the PL vs RP debate for far too long... I am neither... I play mechanics... and I interact with people... but both extremes fighting all the time wears me out. I'm just gonna go have some fun for a while... and maybe things will settle down over the next few weeks...
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Things are out of balance?
Welcome to the alpha phase of planeshift.
Yes we know it's an alpha. But that isn't really a defense when you're discussing player roleplay vs. powerleveling - when the infrastructure doesn't support the wishes of the developers. My take is that sure, players may be a problem - but players have excuses.
So, I'd like to welcome you to the alpha phase of PlaneShift, Xillix.
Touche.
I know I am pulling a zanzibar here but . . .
Zontick,
You seem like a relatively articulate person with somewhat of a faculty for reasoning so I will tell you this out of kindness.
It is not customary to use "touche" to your own arguments.
Typically one's opponent in a discussion will say touche when they feel their counterpart has parried their comments well.
I yield no such ground sir.
I expect you will go back and edit your series of posts in this thread instead of triple posting and consult the forum rules before making this error again.
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Zontick,
Your attempts to reach Talad will fall on deaf ears, he is inundated with requests from the gms, devs, and testers.
If there is something you want to say you are welcome to pm me.
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As to Garile,
We will continue to call it an alpha until we decide it isn't an alpha, however long that takes.
It is no excuse. We don't have time to address concerns of balance right now, and nothing will change that except more volunteers.
Please dear community, don't return to the "you owe us" line of argument.
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I know I am pulling a Xillix here but . . .
Read the rules on posting, or accept the ban when it comes to you. Your choice, luv. (To no one in particular. Also, get a sense of humor or I'll ban you.)
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Alpha phase isn't an excuse, it's a fact. Alpha phase typically lasts (everybody seems to have different definitions) until all features have been worked on, that's quite obviously not the case. Most games are in Alpha for years (or pre-alpha if they have it) and they are commercial games. To use an example, go watch the battlecast for Starcraft 2, they're calling that Alpha still and look how close to the full game it is. Beta is typically reserved for major balancing and fleshing out of features.
It's not a matter of time, it's a matter of where the game is in development.
And yes, RP-PL is a divide that will last. We could try adding an RP tab to the chat box and maybe that would help, who knows but, when that was suggested it was met with cries of "That would encourage OOCness", if I remember correctly.
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I am doing my part to stop the rp vs powerlevel divide right now.
(http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/lolcat-funny-picture-moderator1.jpg)