PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Maju on December 21, 2009, 01:09:04 am
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We all know that, in RL, the emotional state, the moral or spirit of a soldier or football player or a worker is important in his productivity. And we know that this emotional state (positive, negative, neutral) is strongly favored by immaterial "feed" like love and art.
I'd like this emotional state to be a stat in PS, factoring somehow all others. Guess it could work somewhat like this:
- neutral state: no change
- positive state: multiply stats by something like 1.2 (somewhat positive), 1.4 (positive) and 1.6 (very positive)
- negative state: multiply stats by maybe 0.8 (somewhat negative), 0.6 (negative), 0.4 (depressed)
"Artistic" creations (I can think of cusine and music right now but there may be others - religion?) would increase enthusiasm according to skill, while some other experiences (like the DR, for instance, or eating rotten food) would have the opposite effect. It would naturally tend, as time passes (but rather slowly), to neutral from either extreme, so the "food for the soul" would get some demand beyond mere roleplaying.
Of course, it would require careful fine-tuning, like almost everything. But imagine players crowding a concert or a restaurant, just because it makes their characters feel good (and hence be more efficient). It would give the game a real life culture and emotion feeling without being too demanding in gameplay (you can always get some good vibes from a beer or a less elaborate meal, or maybe reading at Jayose's, you only "need" that now and then, as it goes down slowly unless you die or something) and makes some RL sense, right?
And, of course, it would give demand to crafts that the devs (and in general the players) would like to see more effectively implented somehow eventually.
Give it a thought at least.
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You're talking about a temporary buff to stats. Those are coming.
Ex:) A campfire can give charisma, a piece of meat can give strength.
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sounds too girlish. besides, what you think may make people happy or sad is not true for everyone. i'm usually annoyed by art and music. i get my happy from nommy foods, adrenaline, and sports. and i don't get depressed. also, a lot of people don't let emotions get in the way of productivity.
*shreds your idea, throws it in a bin, and sets it on fire*
:P
bloodedirishman, how does a campfire make one charismatic?? lol
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how does a campfire make one charismatic?? lol
an enki, sitting by the fire under the stars, making its fur flick red with the flames - shadows lightly dancing across its face...says Dharke, trailing off in her own world
mate, being by fire ALWAYS improves the atmosphere. ALWAYS. campfires, candlelight dinners...
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You're talking about a temporary buff to stats. Those are coming.
Ex:) A campfire can give charisma, a piece of meat can give strength.
No. It might have somewhat similar effects but what I suggested is conceptually different.
And I agree with Sarras that a campfire should give nothing but warmth... company if there's other people around at best.
sounds too girlish.
Roleplaying IS "girlish" (i.e. theatre, art: not the typical macho thing of slash and smash). Assume it or change game.
besides, what you think may make people happy or sad is not true for everyone. i'm usually annoyed by art and music. i get my happy from nommy foods, adrenaline, and sports. and i don't get depressed. also, a lot of people don't let emotions get in the way of productivity.
Emotions affect productivity. I understand that it is a fact. Otherwise slavery would still exist - it was abolished largely because it was improductive, as slaves were not motivated. It's a matter of motivation: unmotivated workers or soldiers are clearly less effective, and the opposite is true of motivated ones.
However, I do agree that the concept needs fine-tuning.
I forgot to mention part of the idea: that different creation circumstances could cause a greater or smaller emotivity in the resulting character. One of these could be race (IDK, dwarves or klyros look like less emotional, while diaboli or elven types could be more instead) but there should be room for personalization in this aspect. Anyhow less emotivity would cause one to be less "moved" (affected by this modifying factor) in both senses: for good or bad (one is almost invulnerable to depression but also to high enthusiasm: his/her emotional state is "flatter")
A possibility could be that some characters would get more spirit from certain inputs (i.e. high quality food in your case) than others (music in your case). That makes total sense but I'm not sure how difficult would be to implement. In any case, would you RP such a character, you'd choose always the restaurant over the musical performance, even if technically gives you the same "hoot".
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What if emotional preferences were made part of the character creation process? Say there is a list with various situations, and you select the pros an leave the cons. Or choose which your character would like best, could tolerate, or would dislike. You could always just roleplay these things, but having the mechanics back it up might make it easier to stay in character and, as previously stated, encourage evnts such as poetry recitations and arena matches, depending on characters' interests. Perhaps also areas such as the red crystal den could be set to improve happiness for those who enjoy theater. Of course, this might lead to people going just to improve their emotion ig, not to be involved. But on the flip side, it might encourage players to attend who wouldn't regularly, and they could find themselves drawn into rps and having fun, learning from others who enjoy it.
Just my two tria.
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What if emotional preferences were made part of the character creation process? Say there is a list with various situations, and you select the pros an leave the cons. Or choose which your character would like best, could tolerate, or would dislike. You could always just roleplay these things, but having the mechanics back it up might make it easier to stay in character and, as previously stated, encourage evnts such as poetry recitations and arena matches, depending on characters' interests. Perhaps also areas such as the red crystal den could be set to improve happiness for those who enjoy theater. Of course, this might lead to people going just to improve their emotion ig, not to be involved. But on the flip side, it might encourage players to attend who wouldn't regularly, and they could find themselves drawn into rps and having fun, learning from others who enjoy it.
Just my two tria.
That's largely my point: encourage certain RP activities FROM game mechanics, instead of just leaving them to the caprice of players alone. Game mechanics can encourage, hinder or be neutral to RP. So far they are either neutral or even contrary to the activities related to this "emotional" factor (I'd say that encouraging other activities such as hack&slash or smithing indirectly detracts from activities that game mechanics are indifferent to, such as art or cuisine). As player I see no in-game motivation to worry about anything that is not trias, stats and weapons/armor... and therefore most of the time I don't do anything about these other activities. But if these activities can influence your stats somehow, then they become truly important.
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an enki, sitting by the fire under the stars, making its fur flick red with the flames - shadows lightly dancing across its face...says Dharke, trailing off in her own world
mate, being by fire ALWAYS improves the atmosphere. ALWAYS. campfires, candlelight dinners...
AHHHHHHH!!! MY FUR IS ON FIRE MY FUR IS ON FIRE AHHH!!!!
(is that helpin your atmosphere?)
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Zasary leaps away from the fire and flaming Earowo, "Put it out! Put it out!" Weeps quietly from the shadows, "I was burned as a kit."
(yes, campfires are not fun for everyone, so stat buffs should not be applied to characters for being in certain environments. It is godmodding to assume that environments and objects create the same feelings in all characters. If you RP correctly, you don't need stat boosts to show a pleasant/negative reaction to the environment.)
Just a humble opinion.
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ya unless i have a marshmellow campfires bore me XD
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What's up with campfires? I like the dance of the fire and others may like the company they might offer... but, well, I was thinking in something feasible, not in the impossible fractality (http://hypertextbook.com/chaos/33.shtml) of the real world, which can't be imitated.
Mostly getting some skills that are already incorporated (or planned) to the game (but largely unused, except to make tria by most unrealistic systems) and give it a gameplay utility that matches to some extent what happens in reality. This transversal stat could even replace Dakkru's Curse and it seems to me much more easy to implement than thousands of variables for each act (like the mentioned meat effect).
But as for campfires, I really don't have any idea why they are being mentioned: they are not essentially different from a lamp or any other object, except in that they cause more lag apparently. Sure, someone might feel emotionally charged by contemplating the magnificence of the great statue (is it Laanx or Talad?, never got to discern one from the other, my characters always choose other gods) or the shine of the Crystal or the grass being blow by the wind... but it's totally away from my intent to include in this stat all possible forms of subjective exaltation, just a reasonable set of the most common ones, and specially those implemented as skills in game, what would offer a market for such artists, diversifying a bit the economy.
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Also I'd like to suggest some fine-tunning for this:
I'd like this emotional state to be a stat in PS, factoring somehow all others. Guess it could work somewhat like this:
- neutral state: no change
- positive state: multiply stats by something like 1.2 (somewhat positive), 1.4 (positive) and 1.6 (very positive)
- negative state: multiply stats by maybe 0.8 (somewhat negative), 0.6 (negative), 0.4 (depressed)
In the negative sense it should be less intense because +50% (half more) is not the same as -50% (just half). The positive opposite of half would be more like double (because full is double than half), so the negative state should not be so harmful.
Maybe something like 0.9 - 0.8 - 0-6? Not really sure.
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full of bull u kno nothing aboiy spavery maju
rolpelaying is also not girly nor is theater
ur ridiculois
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@ Maju: we are using the campfire idea because it was proposed as the example of how it's presence could influence a character's mood. As Earowo, Blerghtrue, and myself have shown, no character is going to react the same way to the campfire scenario, so how can you impose a uniform stat boost to all characters. A stat boost for emotional state, enthusiasm, and mood would be godmodding; it would be telling other people how to act or feel when placed under certain circumstances. The food is a reasonable thought about improving strength, endurance, or healing; everyone must eat to survive.
This idea of controlling characters emotions is better suited for the players on EZPCUSA. Since you are only concerned with how to improve stats [as you stated in one of your earliest posts] I don't think you have a grasp that people on the Laanx server do not like to be told how to feel or act. When stats are imposed on them based on where they go or what they are exposed to, it invades their right to RP a unique character. If my character is happy with an activity I'll RP it, I don't need someone doing a mathematical equation to tell me my character smiles while at a concert and is scared in the deathrealm [since you used Dakkru as an example in one of your posts]...besides worshippers of Dakkru would not have a negative stat for being in the presence of their goddess in the death realm.
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As I said, temporary buffs are coming.
Something as complex as what's being talked about here is a long way off, even for the biggest games out there, is hard to do. Not to mention that with players in our game, who are fiercely individual and take pride on their character's uniqueness, it's far more difficult to get it right.
"Soon(tm)" ;D
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ok im back and not drugged up buy idk how wrll im typing lol
i like the enthusiasm idea but only as long as iy gives positive buffs. in character vraction u could pick 5 or so things that boost ur char's entgusiasm, which could allow ur char to temporarily work harder or longer. situations like camping, drinking, eating, taverns, company (players or npcs), jogging, jumping off cliffs, whatevrr
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full of bull u kno nothing aboiy spavery maju
rolpelaying is also not girly nor is theater
ur ridiculois
At least I know how to type. What the heck does "aboiy spavery" mean?
RP is theater. And it was you who first used the "girly" adjective, so I replied in that context: what is generally considered "manly" in our culture is hack and slash not pretending whatever, what is what you do in RP.
And anyhow "girls" should also have room in PS or is this going to be a sexist game too?
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@ Maju: we are using the campfire idea because it was proposed as the example of how it's presence could influence a character's mood. As Earowo, Blerghtrue, and myself have shown, no character is going to react the same way to the campfire scenario, so how can you impose a uniform stat boost to all characters. A stat boost for emotional state, enthusiasm, and mood would be godmodding; it would be telling other people how to act or feel when placed under certain circumstances.
Then dying, geting tired, running out of mana or being unable to kill an ulber when your char is totally new is also godmodding. Godmodding can only happen when players do it, not what is a game feature.
The food is a reasonable thought about improving strength, endurance, or healing; everyone must eat to survive.
Actually food should make you first need to rest (make the digestion), specially if it's copious. You need food to survive and to work but the immediate effect of a copious food is wanting to take a nap or at least sit relaxed while it's processed.
But food has other attributes, including causing pleasure, if it's good enough, and delight, if excellent. Same with art, religion and other "spiritual" matters that otherwise would be left off gameplay.
This idea of controlling characters emotions is better suited for the players on EZPCUSA.
Actually not because if you are just interested in grinding and leveling, then you don't want such a "realistic" environment.
Since you are only concerned with how to improve stats [as you stated in one of your earliest posts] I don't think you have a grasp that people on the Laanx server do not like to be told how to feel or act.
I am also part of "the people on the Laanx server", mind you and I bother roleplaying quotidian stuff more than most, for what I've seen. And not, I am not only concerned on how to improve stats, but I consider idiotic to pretend you are the best warrior ever when you can't even kill a rat (so to say). I think that gameplay and roleplay should go hand by hand not be two worlds apart because you don't need such an environment for that, you can do with mere text, right?
When stats are imposed on them based on where they go or what they are exposed to, it invades their right to RP a unique character.
So your concept of RPing means to pretend you are totally fresh when exhausted, and that you are the best gladiator ever even if you can't kill a gobble, right. It is not my concept, though I respect your private point of view. I want an immersing game where to roleplay within gameplay.
besides worshippers of Dakkru would not have a negative stat for being in the presence of their goddess in the death realm.
IDK but by the moment they get Dakkru's Curse like anybody else and I think it's only fair. I RP it saying that the curse is in fact a blessing because you are allowed to return from DR (meh - my opinion for all MMPORGs has always been that if you die, then create a new char: pseudo-death is silly... but nobody listens to me on that).
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As I said, temporary buffs are coming.
Good. :thumbup:
Something as complex as what's being talked about here is a long way off, even for the biggest games out there, is hard to do.
I'm no expert but as I conceived it, looks fairly easy: it's just an extra stat factoring all others.
Not to mention that with players in our game, who are fiercely individual and take pride on their character's uniqueness, it's far more difficult to get it right.
Character wipe now! :devil:
Seriously, I do have the impression that "oldbies" really don't usually grasp how difficult is to be a lowbie. They have been "great" for so long that even re-doing the wich quest series seems a pain to them, while most lowbies would really love to be able to do such thing at all.
There's some elitism in the player community that I'm not really liking at all and may distort a lot game development for bad.
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lol read up. i posted that like a day after escaping he hospital. at the time i was on painkillers. also im half blind so exuse my spelling. i hink i meant "about slavrery."
by girly i think i meant forcing strong emotions on players would be too dramatic and silly. i wouldnt want to play a game like that. if u were a drama king/queen maybe but the majority of players afaik wouldnt want to wastr time makng their chars feel better. i dont rly get that actually. seems boring. me, i would rather just... play?
rp isnt theater. theater is the art of trlling astory on stage/a movie. which isnt girly either. it's just art. hack n slash isnt manly. no clue where u gotthat idea from haha. hack n slashers r where all the uncreative girly men go when they fail at life.
btw i am a girl so dont start on sexism
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its an idea worth thinking about, and not in the idea of just temporary buffs.
it could be used to make players more social, by, say, getting lots off people together wwould make you happy while being alone would make you unhappy.
it could from there stem to guild morale (an average of all players morale) and be used as an guild wide positive/negative (much multiplied by what level of happiness you could achieve by yourself)
it could be very interesting, and would be better being a permamnent buff (meaning it would become a major part of a players life, and would make players more inclined to do "mood healthy" activities such as chatting) which would make sure that PS doesnt just become another "hack n slash" roleplaying game.
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its an idea worth thinking about, and not in the idea of just temporary buffs.
it could be used to make players more social, by, say, getting lots off people together wwould make you happy while being alone would make you unhappy.
it could from there stem to guild morale (an average of all players morale) and be used as an guild wide positive/negative (much multiplied by what level of happiness you could achieve by yourself)
it could be very interesting, and would be better being a permamnent buff (meaning it would become a major part of a players life, and would make players more inclined to do "mood healthy" activities such as chatting) which would make sure that PS doesnt just become another "hack n slash" roleplaying game.
Make it happen.
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I like it....
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I'm just gonna toss my little comment in here :D
I think that in a good RP that a character that is truly not feeling well... Positive wouldn't be fighting or being to charismatic anyways and I don't think there's really a need for stat changes.
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*sighs and shakes her head* I just don't understand why we need our character's to be "told" [via stat boosts] what their emotion should be when they walk into a situation. I choose to play a character that is overall very optomistic and hopeful. I don't need stat boosts to tell me how my character would react to other characters in certain situations. Why are we trying have our emotions denoted by stats!! If one character's intelligence is lower than another character's charisma does that mean the less intelligent character should automatically do what they are told? No, maybe something in the character's history/past RP's would have them vehemently oppose the speaking character.
I'm curious as to what it would matter if your charisma stat is higher during a social situation? There is nothing going on Player vs Environment that your stat value affects; it is an RP situation. If everyone gains a boost for being in the situation than no one gains an advantage. Also stat numbers can not be seen by characters, so again it is up to good RPing of each individual player to know if his/her character is happy/sad/persuaded by the character speaking at the moment.
I do still support the idea of food/drink aiding in physical status like recovering endurance or health. I would gladly support a 'food' bar in the information box, for example. If the food stat drops too low over time then it would affect strength, endurance, stamina, damage dealt during battle, etc. If poison [as a consumable/injectable product] were implemented then yes it would affect a lot of stats because realistically poisons harm the physiological system of body/mind.
@ Athrani: There is very little danger of the Laanx server becoming hack n slash. Those of us who like RPing work very hard to encourage people to learn the skill of RPing, or if they are not interested in learning how to RP than they are encouraged to join the EZPCUSA server. It is good storylines and creative players that keep each other interacting, not a 'happy' stat. If everyone is happy than there is no diversity. Also, people who choose to play 'unhappy' characters should not be penalized and have 'weaker' stats than the 'happy' people. 'Unhappy' people can also be determined, persuasive, strong, and helpful under the right circumstances.
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making a stat raise over how a character feels from somthing...it sounds like it would be really hard to do, and you people are havin a pretty good fight about it, couldnt there just be certain magical landmarks that can give stat boost for a certain ammount of time mabey once or twice a day?? sounds easier and more ballanced to me :\