PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Illysia on May 09, 2010, 09:12:09 pm
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Ok, I’d like to thank the people that have shown support for the Stonehead so far, both staff and patrons. I truly appreciate at it. :) However, for those who haven’t…
I’ve been trying to get up some enthusiasm in the general community for the Stonehead Tavern and, to be perfectly honest, the response isn’t enough. Ok, fine… Maybe sitting around chatting in a tavern isn’t exactly your thing but there is more to it than that.
Maybe this is happening because many of the people who were around when OSP was started and player run areas got their first real chance are gone. Whatever the case, this is the problem, the player run areas were a chance for players to have a huge impact on the game and do they wanted to see in game (i.e. set up an area the way you think it needs to be set up.). Not supporting player run areas says “I don’t care” about this. That’s fine if you don’t, but if you don’t care enough then why are you playing this game?
This is a RP game, not a run around or fly on you mount everywhere to do quests all the time game, not a beat someone over the head with maxed STR and Sword skill game, and not a stand around until a GM event with rare glyphs or weapons comes around game. Nothing is wrong with these things in of themselves, but it’s not what this game is for. If you want that, go find another game. I’ll be the first to tell you that this game is not all that great for those things. But it is great for RP, or at least it was.
Most of the time, the player count is below 40 people online at any given time. With the size of the game, that is way too low. Part of the reason it is that low is because people aren’t having fun. If you aren’t RPing, there isn’t really a whole lot of reason to have fun, again this isn’t the best game out there for all the fancy combat, the most areas to explore or the most epic items. Some people say the quality of RP is why people have left, but considering that often you can walk around the game and not find any RP, I’d say the problem is simply not doing it at all…
The other problem that arises from this is that it basically tells the devs “nobody cares”. That is problematic because they are working to make a game people enjoy but now nobody cares… Some might not care what the devs think but that goes both ways. If we don’t care, why should the Devs? Why should they implement something we want if nobody really cares? Why should GMs run events if no one actually cares or why should other players bother to set up RP events? Why should anyone listen to any suggestion someone comes up with if ultimately there isn’t enough people to care?
I’ve have been struggling to believe this is not actually the case and trusting that most people actually do care they just haven’t said so for some odd reason, so I challenge the community to prove one way or another what they feel. Do you or don’t you care? I don’t just want a silly rant or the usual arguments that happens here. Any fool can open his mouth and start an argument. All I want it know is whether or not it’s worth even bothering any more or if I should go on my way and not look back. If it’s not worth bothering, I can use my hard earned summer for myself.
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Well to help you out I certainly do care, I have been doin my best with my Characters to continue in the lifestyle of RP as well will be contacting the Stonehead tavern Manager as soon as I figure out which Character best fits and what they will be willing to do. Don't give up Illysia there is alot of people that RP regularly.
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Honestly, even when I could (or wanted) to play PS, the Stonehead wasn't my thing. Not because I wanted to roflride a mount or etc, but simply because I didn't like the atmosphere of the Stonehead. It felt like a bunch of people forcing themselves to be there and trying to hard to make it work.
Which seems to be precisely the case.
My opinion? Enjoy your summer, if you're not having fun at the Rockbrain, don't spend your summer there. Do something you enjoy. At the end of the day this is a game, not a job. You should think of it as such.
And hey, there are always prostitutes to fill up empty areas, amirite? ;)
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Honestly, even when I could (or wanted) to play PS, the Stonehead wasn't my thing. Not because I wanted to roflride a mount or etc, but simply because I didn't like the atmosphere of the Stonehead. It felt like a bunch of people forcing themselves to be there and trying to hard to make it work.
Which seems to be precisely the case.
My opinion? Enjoy your summer, if you're not having fun at the Rockbrain, don't spend your summer there. Do something you enjoy. At the end of the day this is a game, not a job. You should think of it as such.
And hey, there are always prostitutes to fill up empty areas, amirite? ;)
People enjoyed being at the Stonehead it was a friendly enough environment that even people who were afraid to RP would come and RP a little but since it is not in Hydlaa, it always has a drop off of player support.
And a little known fact, you can't run a player run area for more than a day without it becoming a job. It has to be managed, organized, and supervised. I spent many night stressed by people who came to Stonehead just to mess with me and cause trouble. It takes a great deal of cooperation and preplanning to pull it off, that's why there aren't a lot of player run areas. My basic problem is that I won't put that kind of effort in if it is wasted.
Well to help you out I certainly do care, I have been doin my best with my Characters to continue in the lifestyle of RP as well will be contacting the Stonehead tavern Manager as soon as I figure out which Character best fits and what they will be willing to do. Don't give up Illysia there is alot of people that RP regularly.
Thank you. :)
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The stonehead should be made known as the main place to go to find people roleplaying. That won't happen within a few weeks though. I believe therefore, that you need a group of players who stick to continue with the stonehead as meeting place over a long time and not only for a few weeks for that.
Sen
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This already happened and fell apart, it's going to take more than that.
Oh and by the way.... Not responding will be taken as an "I don't care" as well. I mean to get a lot of input on this before I make a decision on what to do this summer in regards to the Stonehead.
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The answer to the questions you ask is the response from the community. There has been too much emphasis on forcing behavior in this game, and it has not leaned towards keeping players in the game. When something is working there is at least a partial feeling of effortlessness that comes into play; something that works will gather its own momentum. And unfortunately there are other situations that are not helping the Stonehead by proximity. Since we appear to be in an ebb phase with regards to the community, I would also caution that making any judgements regarding the Stonehead at this time would probably be erroneous as there are too few people playing. Wait a while, try again.
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Lady illysia- Roled certainly cares!
Just FYI I stop into the Stonehead almost each time I am ingame. I make appointments to meet people there, and when folks are hammering at Gardr's forge I try to get them to go up with me for a drink.
Roled really appreciates it when pies and drinks are left out on the tables or the hearth of the fireplace, because it does encourage casual dropping in and conversations. RR tries to leave a note of thanks and tria each time but apparently we can't drop tria ig now so RR will pay Illysia for the provisions next time he sees her. Did you get my note and the flowers RR left you?
RR also met... um... gosh... oh yeah ! Lady Minks there yesterday and had a nice talk over a slice of pie.
By the way RR is the one in your other forum's poll who checked off "Stopping by to see LAdy Peckerly". RR and Lady P share a dance everytime he comes by which is 99% of the times RR is ingame.
Thanks Illysia! We'll have your welcome back party next weekend in the Stonehead- the Xioisa party in the Garden is 0200 to @0330 GMT, so why don't we try to have your party at @ 3:30GMT? I know later is better for you and I do remember your schedule is unpredictable. But hopefully the Guest of Honor- you! - will be there and hopefully some of the RHofP and all others who can make it. Next Sat March 15th!
See you then!
Yer Friend
Roled Rolak
Proctor
Knowledge Seekers
Carrier of the Song
Sons of Xiosia[/b]
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[edit: deleted]
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I care. Recently I've been finding out what it really is to RP, just by hanging out in the tavern more often. My only problem right now is that Manxa doesn't know that the Stonehead Tavern exists right now.... Maybe you should tel her about it IG.
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People show up for unodin or xiosia events so they can get free stuff. These are not the kinds of players you want to attract.
Just my opinion.
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Not to contradict you entirely Rigwyn, yes, people do show up for free stuff..
AND/ BUT/ BUT
there was no free stuff except for food at the Unodin events. Unodin was player organized, player supported, and the small prizes that were given out (like the staffs at the Guild Parade) were bought by player organizers of the events. Lots of people showed up!
....Just to set the record straight there my bad bad friend! :devil:
Yer Friend who if he ever meets you will no doubt be scared to deathrealm,
Roled
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well personally illisia
when im not helping my guild with somthing or another, im usually hanging around around the gug tavern
i'll be back in game next weekend, and i'll try and help bring a little bit of chattter to it :)
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tl;dr
answer to title: no, i don't care. sorry.
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I care. The Stone Head is usually the first place I go when I'm on and not questing or something, and with the promotion of it in the forums, I'm hoping maybe there will be some characters there when I pop in. Unfortunately, at the moment, most of my weekend (including Friday) is taken, but I'm hoping we get more players that come on on their weekend evenings (or have weekdays off too or whatever) come in.
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The answer to the questions you ask is the response from the community. There has been too much emphasis on forcing behavior in this game, and it has not leaned towards keeping players in the game. When something is working there is at least a partial feeling of effortlessness that comes into play; something that works will gather its own momentum. And unfortunately there are other situations that are not helping the Stonehead by proximity. Since we appear to be in an ebb phase with regards to the community, I would also caution that making any judgements regarding the Stonehead at this time would probably be erroneous as there are too few people playing. Wait a while, try again.
I share Eldoth views with with regards to 'forcing' behaviours in game and his commentaries relating to how organic these things should manifest.
I would also like to add that it is rather sanctimonious of you Illysia to assert that whatever that is beyond your view and non partisan to your activities does not qualify as RP contribution. While I acknowledge your efforts to generate interest in Role Play (Which somehow in my view has always been prevalent), you only quite focused on the demographics of people who RP as the merry making reveller arch types and expecting the diverse portfolio of people to fit into those standard tin boxes called your 'personal expectations'. We are individuals.
We always had exciting RPs around like the beautifully written and recently concluded Bloodline Arc (Outlaw folks) along with the Tensions in Ojaveda featuring the Kore Irka Clan and House Cheshire, the Tapestry of Secrets, and more recently the Legacy of Cabal which is ongoing. Stop bloating your own ego like you're the only person crusading to resurrect RP. Your post seem to sanctimoniously deem other people's RP inferior at best and non existent at worst.
As to your initiatives: Have some patience! No initiatives manifest overnight! [Your Poll for Stonehead started only 2 days ago for instance] Even people who wrote the story of the flying spaghetti monster(Bible) featuring an illusionary ominipotent entity thinks 7 days is a reasonable duration to build the world - You're no where near that omnipotence so just give time to watch it grow.
The simple formula for good RP in my humble opinion is simply to just keep into to settings, have fun and let time take it's course.
Thank you for reading.
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Well, I have to say in some respects I agree with Vilthis, however, I think Illysia was merely empassioned with her crusade to resurrect RP at the Stonehead and overlooked these other RPs.
I care for the Stonehead, however, I rarely play on a character other than Akaiddo, and it's a rarity for him to travel as far as Hydlaa, let alone Gugrontid, so that's why I'm never about. To my character, staying in Ojaveda and ensuring its security is more important than heading off for a beer all the way over in Gugrontid.
I must agree with Vilthis on the patience. It's only been a week since you really resurrected the Stonehead, and as such it will take a fair amount of time to get busy. Give it time.
And really, don't expect players to change their character's RPs to come out to Gugrontid for RP. It'd be OOC for half of us to head out that way, that's just the way things are.
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I'm glad you two think I'm sanctimonious, but keep in mind I've been at this awhile. I'm glad, that this took so long before off topic criticisms came into it. (On this forum that is a miracle) But this is minor compared with that usually goes on around here. *shrugs* It's not calling what RP is out there absolutely nothing, it is getting people to wake up and pay attention. I remember when there was around 120 people on in a day, RP was so common that people were even RPing at Harns and more often at Oja, and falling into an RP was easier than falling in a log.
Look around now, your individual RPs aren't quite that spanning and you know good and well that RP is not as prevalent as it could and should be. Nothing wrong with your RPs, but do understand that your feeling personally pricked doesn't change there has been rather large and unfortunate changes in game. Also, if I wasn't being patient I would be gone already like the rest of the people that used to be on in the course the day. Apparently you don't realize how many people are lurking around the edges waiting to come back in game when the community looks to be half way recovered. Whether or not you agree, I have far more experience in this than a few posters are giving me credit for. I have likely been starting and supporting RPs in this game longer than you have been around Vilthis and I didn't even start playing as a RPer. Akkaido, you should have been around long enough know exactly why this is necessary.
Give me some credit to have some sense of patience as this is not the first time I've gotten the Stonehead up and that I have been working in the background for a bit more than a week. The purpose of this thread goes beyond talking to those still in game but also calling to those lurking around that will not come back in because the level of RP is not satisfactory.
I don't mind criticism so much but you two have no amount of your own medicine coming for thinking that it hasn't occured to me wait and that somehow in one day this thread has served it's purpose. If it is because of my responses to people, it's called appreciation... I am glad people stopped by and bothered to say they care. I even actually do respect the people that don't care. I'd like to know, up front, what kind of ratios I am dealing with.
This thread won't serve its purpose for some time yet. I tried being nice and pleading but that hasn't been nearly as affective in getting peoples attention. Also, I have a right to say I don't feel like taking on a job if no one cares. You try it some times and see how long you tolerate people messing with you for messing with you sake, sitting around for nights at a time with absolutely no one to RP with for the sake of having the tavern open in case someone wants to come, and struggling to provide a comfortable enough environment that even those scared to RP will come and RP. (That takes more than just reassuring people that it is ok and RPing with them.)
It takes a lot of work and effort to maintain the atmosphere of the Stonehead, and keep staff working without a guild structure to support it. You're human like me, you wouldn't be eager to run into right into a great deal of struggling either. Next time someone decides to throw sanctimonious around, think more on the greater purpose of the post, and check to see whether or not you are actually a part of the group being addressed. Also, please stay on topic and refrain from stuff that can spin in to arguments. I know you've seen the battleground the forum has become as of late. This thread serves a purpose, whether you agree or not, and I don't want it degenerating into a mud slinging contest like many other threads have.
Oh and no, it won't take awhile to get busy... There in lies the whole point. Since I've posted this, way more people have decided to stop by and RP there. As I have been saying for some time now, people need to know that it is ok to RP, that there are people that are ready to RP, and that it is expected. I did the pleading thing already and got ignored a great deal. It's just time to be a bit more firm is all.
Long story short: Please leave your personal offense at the door as the part you take offense at wasn't even directed at you. I wouldn't say "Not RPing" to someone that is. I apologize, if I didn't write even more in the first post so that it was overly clear who I wasm addressing.
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In case you didn't read my first post clearly:
I agreed with Vilthis on a few points, but didn't think you were being sanctimonious etc etc.
It just felt like the whole thread was a little "WE NEED TO SAVE RP, HERES HOW." and I feel that alot of RPers like to RP wherever they please.
I wasn't offended, I accept that my recent absence due to university and making things to go in this game has caused a lull in my RP field. But I will build that up. My post was simply a friendly "Hey Illysia, I do care, but it's not in my IC nature to be at the Stonehead."
In other words, I'm with you in OOC spirit. Just, remember that RP is for all of Yliakum, not just the alcoholic beverage providers :)
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While I've always enjoyed war-like rp a lot more than illysia's more social/civilized flavor of rp I would recomend to anyone who is serious about rp to make a character that would fit in and give it a shot. It was a mind opener for me to see how people can get pleasure out of rp without bashing in each other's heads. While its not really for me, I can say that I tried it and as a result, have a little more respect for those who rp this way.
Before my free time got dried up I was hoping to get sillamon involved in order to lrarn more from this crowd.
I recently saw the movie "avatar" and was deeply impressed by concept of "plant roots" and the interconnectivity butween the planet's inhabitants and nature itself. This connectivity was their treasure. It bound them together.
The civilized rp that illysia,lhaa and aiwendil have promoted is in my opinion about this. Interconnectivity, bonding.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when characters are *connected* or *networked* they tend to react to things *together*. What happens to one character affects multiple characters.
Also players begin to *bond* and form lasting friendships which strengthens the community further.
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@akkaido:Trust me akkaido. I noticed.
I acknowledged that people might not want to sit in the tavern, but RP is dying and someone needs to do something. RP in PS is too special to let it faze out as it is doing. For anyone that disagrees, I point to the steady decline in player numbers. It hasn't recovered in years, and it only keeps getting worse. At its current rate, there will be no players and no RP within a year or two.
The point is not to say "RPing in the Stonehead" is the only acceptable form of RP and never was. Besides, you can RP at the stonehead without being there for chatting. It is a tavern just like Kada's and you can do all sorts of RP, it just has to be reasonable. Use your imagination. ;) "Maintaining the atmosphere" there is not the same "holding hands and sing the Barney song and Kumbaya" all day. I just won't accept say a sloppy murder plot there.
@Rigwyn: It did my heart a lot of good when you first told me what you learned from us. :) Basically you are right. The understated fact is that it is hard to have "exciting" RPs without the kind of stuff that happens at the Stonehead. Characters do need to be connected for events to happen. Otherwise you end up with a script where you know exactly what happens and when.
If you say attack one character, then find out later they had ties to this group, and you through interesting connections ;) have ties to a rival group, that could lead to an epic conflict. But if your guild just decides to declare war on another guild... It can lose some of the flair and flavor it could have had. It was these connections that made the RPs of the past and why old old oldbies shake their heads when they talk about recent stuff. People have to interact more than smacking each other in the head occasional, you can't tell a good story without it. Underlying stories are the heart of RP. ;)
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From what I have seen attempting to resurrect the RP community is a demanding and unappreciated task. Personally I've had a lot of fun in the stonehead during big events such as the Unodin festival, and I agree that the casual networking RP can lead to interesting future interactions with the players involved. Then again, I much like Rigwyn prefer a different style of RPing. With that said, rather than inquiring if I or someone else cares you should ask yourself the same question. Keeping in mind the unappreciated nature of this kind of indulgence, I say put your own interest first. If you would truly enjoy such a task as this, power to you. :thumbup: If not, find another way to spend your summer. Relaxing in the sun perhaps?
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I did the pleading thing already and got ignored a great deal. It's just time to be a bit more firm is all.
I tried being nice and pleading but that hasn't been nearly as affective in getting peoples attention. Also, I have a right to say I don't feel like taking on a job if no one cares. You try it some times and see how long you tolerate people messing with you for messing with you sake, sitting around for nights at a time with absolutely no one to RP with for the sake of having the tavern open in case someone wants to come, and struggling to provide a comfortable enough environment that even those scared to RP will come and RP.
I did advocate patience.
I too felt the thread was a little "WE NEED TO SAVE RP, HERES HOW." as Akkaido has put. It read as sanctimonious to me. My point is, I do care and I acknowledge your efforts, but to dismiss constructive criticism as a off-topic mud sling? I don't buy the oldbie superiority complex wishing you to be more forward looking, this is now and we will make the future work. My point is simple - Whine less, work more. Make Stonehead successful.
I am supportive of your initiative.
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@Jacula: I wouldn't bother with this question if I didn't care. I do enjoy doing this, it's just that it is a package deal. The stuff I don't enjoy about it can easily outweigh the stuff I do like at times and so it's better to a check early than spend time later thinking I wasted my time. I'm one of those people that prefers this kind of RP, I have a service oriented nature. Not to mention, I got drama in RL I don't need it in my games too. ;D The problem is providing a service no one wants is like selling ice in the north pole, you might as well pack it up and go home.
@Vilthis: It's ironic you would accuse me of the oldbie superiority complex Vilthis, I guess that proves you really are unfamiliar with my past efforts. The criticism is less the problem as the nature of the forum. Go back some day and look at the many locked threads and see how many started with constructive criticism and degenerated into flame wars before being locked. My concern is valid. It is just that, like I said, you haven't been around long enough to know these things yet. If you have more constructive criticism just PM me, I am dead serious about this thread not degenerating into the muck that others have. However, I appreciate both you and Akkaido's support.
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I'm going to break my own "lurker" status here and reply to this thread because I really respect you Illysia :)
Please don't take this in a bad way because its going to sound terrible..im being honest and don't intend for this to come across as an attack or anything.
Honestly at this point, I don't care. I have absolutely zero interest in even trying to get my client to work at this point (knowing that it would likely be a headache and a half). I have school and work, and am currently studying abroad so tbh PS is the absolute last thing on my mind right now. Is that to say that Soselie won't ever appear and clean the floors again? No, definitely not---however, am I going to make an effort to log in any time soon? No.
My interest in the game has slowly dwindled over the past few years to the point right now where honestly i could give a rats a** about what happens to it. I lurk the forums and the irc channel out of a loyalty to the good friends both past and present that this game has blessed me with. I appreciate PS for what it was--it got me through a tough transition freshman year in college and, through the people I met, inspired me to travel the world (..and am currently in the process of doing this).
I say in the end, make the decision for YOU, not based on what others are going to do. The PS phase of my life is over and ive moved on to bigger and better things--if you feel that it is your time then by all means live your life! Enjoy your summer, go to the beach!! :)
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We are pretty aware of the players decreasing and there are a number of factors connected to that:
1) The new server update didn't go well for everyone, and many are just waiting a new full distro to get into the game again
2) New players are coming at a constant rate, but these days they are split between ezpc and skylab servers, and ezpc is slowly growing, and rebalancing the situation we had before with just one server.
3) 0.5.3 seems to be less stable than 0.5.2.1 for some players and platforms, again I think some are waiting the next update to fix their issues.
4) The fun factor is surely a problem, and even if the game evolved, it's not yet at the point we would like it to be.
We are working on all the items above, fun factor included. A number of quite important changes are coming to address the items above. Obviously I don't like to see players number decreasing, but I'm sure more players will come when we release new features, and PS is getting better every day. Let's say that players are just more demanding seeing the games present on the market :) I'm very confident in what PS can become, and I suggest you to continue to have fun, invite your friends to play, and support us as you are doing. We will work on making PS better and in getting more players as well.
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I really dont think there is a huge pool of roleplayers waiting to jump in. I think that's wishful thinking. There are other free roleplaying games out there and as anumesa hinted, there is real life too.
Once you become untangled from the game its much easier to close the door on it. If you want an rp community again I think it will need to be grown member by member. Perhaps if the soil moist and there's
the right balance of light, warmth and stress.. Then who knows, perhaps something will evolve.
Do I care ?
In as much as I would like to see planeshift become a haven for rp, yes.
But at the moment I'm taking a break and trying something new.
I think that now that most of the players are gone you have the opportunity to rebuild the community from the ground up.
Get the ominous wipe out of the way while the player base is tiny.
Make a set of rules that firmly support roleplaying and discourage grinding on skylab.
Cultivate the soil so to speak.
With a fertile environment and some support who knows, something very special might grow now that there is plenty of room.
A number of good role players have left because the rules for rp were too lax for their taste.
While nobody was to be told what they can ir cannot do, such rules are a small price to pay if they ensure that everyone will meet a decent standard of rp.
When you are new to rp, you don't mind rping with people who are reckless. As you get better you want to have less to do with those who don't value quality rp.
I don't know how rp originally started in planeshift, but it might be inspiring for some to hear about that.
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It's not so much that they are chomping at the bit to come back, but if there was an interesting and vibrant community, you'd be surprised how nostalgic people would become and just how many people would come back. (even with other MMOs and RL) That lack of a vibrant community is basically the reason it's so easy to detach from the game. As for building from the ground up, starting from scratch would take years again and you'd more or less have to reestablish everything as active standards would be pretty thin. I'm fairly ambitious in my aims to revitalize the community but that's not something I would take on by myself. That is more than even a whole guild could take on, even with the current size of the player base. However, if such a thing could be done I'd be all for it.
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Illysia, I don't think the community is that far from being completely dead. There are a hand full of roleplayers left. If I were running the game I would get them together and ask them where they would like to see the game go and what they would like to see change to make this community vibrant again.
One they go, your at ground zero.
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Well Rig, the biggest issue is that there's not enough players. But that won't correct itself over night. Until the retention rate goes up there isn't much to do in rebuilding. The RP community isn't THAT close to being dead. It's just pretty bad off. All it needs is people committed to building it back up. But again we come back to the retention rate. Once there are more people in an area to RP with each other it won't be so bad.
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As for rebuilding I'm not suggesting getting out there and role playing, rather I'm suggesting something much more passive.
Rebuild the playground.
I don't thing the playground I'd that hard to fix. Fix and people might be attracted.
Set it up so that it encourages rp and perhaps new players will be affected by it and become roleplayers.
I might be oversimplifying things.
If I want mold, I can try night and day to make it, but I will fail.
If I create a warm moist environment and wait, the mold will appear.
( Analogy blissfully ignores that fact that mold spores need to be present in the air )
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If you want to attract role-players, it wont be taverns, playgrounds, or graphics. Those are what you need to keep a community you already have. To bring people into the game, you need to work with the first things seen and heard; what they hear from other people, and what the see when they fist visit the site.
Have you had any moments on this game where you could say something really great happened? Something you will remember years from now and laugh about it with a friend who knows nothing of? A game needs to generate stories*, not of the novel kind, nor of the scripted kind, but of the living kind; the sort where you not only want to tell it to someone, but they want to listen.
When people first come to the site and read about it, it seems like a documentary or history book. I enjoy that kind of thing, but it gives most people the feeling that the game really is dead; borked links and uncertain information support this. If you wish the community to be active, design the site so it appears active; it becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy.
*Examples: Boatmurdered (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Boatmurdered) is a succession game/fortress commonly used to advertise Dwarf Fortress, and the Fire Ignorance bugs and such. The game also has the motto "Losing is Fun", and the players often dub glitches as features because they're fun. Nist Akath (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19279.0) is a story fort/game that is referenced over the entire DF community.
I know I'm still a "newbie" here, but I feel my words apply to any game community.
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If I want mold, I can try night and day to make it, but I will fail.
If I create a warm moist environment and wait, the mold will appear.
( Analogy blissfully ignores that fact that mold spores need to be present in the air )
If I create a fridge and a sandwich, the mold will appear >.<
Happens far too often...
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If you want to attract role-players, it wont be taverns, playgrounds, or graphics. Those are what you need to keep a community you already have. To bring people into the game, you need to work with the first things seen and heard; what they hear from other people, and what the see when they fist visit the site.
Have you had any moments on this game where you could say something really great happened? Something you will remember years from now and laugh about it with a friend who knows nothing of? A game needs to generate stories*, not of the novel kind, nor of the scripted kind, but of the living kind; the sort where you not only want to tell it to someone, but they want to listen.
When people first come to the site and read about it, it seems like a documentary or history book. I enjoy that kind of thing, but it gives most people the feeling that the game really is dead; borked links and uncertain information support this. If you wish the community to be active, design the site so it appears active; it becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy.
*Examples: Boatmurdered (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Boatmurdered) is a succession game/fortress commonly used to advertise Dwarf Fortress, and the Fire Ignorance bugs and such. The game also has the motto "Losing is Fun", and the players often dub glitches as features because they're fun. Nist Akath (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19279.0) is a story fort/game that is referenced over the entire DF community.
I know I'm still a "newbie" here, but I feel my words apply to any game community.
Yes...PS.it definitely needs to be improved drastically. Much of the history/Settings information there is semi-obsolete, and the news releases are too sporadic for anyone to follow. Perhaps a new site is in order...?
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Only a new site if the majority wants a change in style. It looks like this has been on the figurative back-burner too long; just start with the bare-minimum text edits so at least something gets done. The news says it has been two weeks since the update; wouldn't the changes have been marked down by then? Or if things are updated on day-to-day basis, shouldn't the developer involved keep track and update the corresponding articles?
I managed to start playing the game, and I'm creating a list of things to check off against the bug tracker.
[...]
We are working on all the items above, fun factor included. A number of quite important changes are coming to address the items above. Obviously I don't like to see players number decreasing, but I'm sure more players will come when we release new features, and PS is getting better every day. Let's say that players are just more demanding seeing the games present on the market :) I'm very confident in what PS can become, and I suggest you to continue to have fun, invite your friends to play, and support us as you are doing. We will work on making PS better and in getting more players as well.
I really should have read the entire thread before, but only just did. This part made me shiver, and I'm not sure why everyone just took it in stride.
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I care. I've just been busy lately. I'll see what I can do here and there this summer.
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If you look at other areas of the net, you'll see exactly why the player base has dwindled so much.
Most people here have a MySpace account I would assume. A huge part of that number probably just stops by now once in a blue to check it. So what happened? They put ads all over the place, cluttered the interface, tried to be a Facebook clone with all the apps, and generally became unusable. And they did this over a very short period of time.
Planeshift is very much the same. I'll admit, people wanted new features, myself included. They begged and pleaded for them. As a response, Planeshift tried to take a HUGE leap over a very short period of time. This caused many people to be unable to operate the game, whether it was from low specs on their comps to the game just not loading at all. I think this rush to grow up overnight was a result of mounting tensions within the community, and a rush to satisfy the masses.
As Rigwyn said, the playground needs to be fixed first. Problem one has always been that to even get the game going requires more hacking than any casual gamer should have to go through. Goal one should be to have something that works out of the box, without tweaking settings files and going through system folders. Problem two is that once players are in the game, it lags more than games with tons more concurrent users, much larger environments, and much higher variety of in game items/clothes/player models. And the current third problem as stated before is that many can't even launch the game in the first place.
Though PlaneShift is a role-playing game, right now its future, both of getting older players to return as well as new players to stay, rests solely on the probably overworked shoulders of the coders. Perhaps its the 3D engine. Perhaps its the code for the game settings. Whatever it is, something on the technical end needs to be optimized to allow players to spend less time trying to get it to work and more time focusing on roleplay. This may mean rolling a whole new client altogether and starting from the ground up. But buildings can't stand on weak foundation, so perhaps this is the best time to start rebuilding, taking what has been learned and making it even better. Starting over is not a step back unless you don't learn from mistakes.
Once everything gets rolling, people will play and hopefully heal and rebuild the fractured community. I've certainly had fun times playing when I could get on, and wouldn't mind popping in once in a while to have a little fun (or mischief) again.
And Illysia...I understand it isn't very fun to have such an establishment without customers, but these days, there just aren't enough to go around. Don't give up on it, but don't be afraid to go out on some adventures elsewhere either. If they rebuild it, they will come.
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[...]
We are working on all the items above, fun factor included. A number of quite important changes are coming to address the items above. Obviously I don't like to see players number decreasing, but I'm sure more players will come when we release new features, and PS is getting better every day. Let's say that players are just more demanding seeing the games present on the market :) I'm very confident in what PS can become, and I suggest you to continue to have fun, invite your friends to play, and support us as you are doing. We will work on making PS better and in getting more players as well.
I really should have read the entire thread before, but only just did. This part made me shiver, and I'm not sure why everyone just took it in stride.
Because those of us that stick with the game just understand that to be the way things work around here. You make your own fun in PS. People that don't find it fun don't typically hang around, check out the forums without getting scared off by all the flaming and drama, and then decide it'd be a good idea to help make it more fun, be that contributing, joining the team or helping/running a player-run area and/or just plain roleplaying more.
I go do something else when I want to be guaranteed fun instead of walking around, /greeting everyone, and hoping it'll lead to roleplay - or sit around just staying in touch through tells, treating PS like an unnecessarily bulky IM client that I can rarely even play a podcast alongside of without crashing. But I still try every once in a while, because I'm clinging desperately to the hope that someday there will be some fun in PS again, even if a lot of the people I used to enjoy roleplaying have given up and moved on. That something else often being play a game that does have roleplayers, most of whom can actually run the client relatively smoothly, have fun helping each other level when we have some goal in mind (mind-blowing concept, isn't it?) and do care about keeping the RP alive. Either that or I just write my own darn stories, even if it would be more fun if I didn't know how my antagonist/annoying sidekick/etc was gonna react to my character's actions. Questing isn't fun, mining isn't fun, cracking rat skulls so I can eventually progress to ulbernaut skulls isn't fun (and no, I am not going to contribute donate my work to try to make it more fun - but that's another can of worms altogether). It kills some time, but I'd rather be roleplaying. If that means finding some BS reason for my character to stray from their regular activities so I can go to the "hotspots", fine. Better to allow for some change of heart in your characters even if it doesn't make sense, or even roll new characters, than sit around an empty town.
Also, I'm totally with Jonoth on the above post - either a redo or just making the game playable without having to hold the hands of us non-techie people that want to run PS would be awesome.
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Ok, let's work back here...
But I still try every once in a while, because I'm clinging desperately to the hope that someday there will be some fun in PS again, even if a lot of the people I used to enjoy roleplaying have given up and moved on.
\\o// Ok, this is it! This is the whole reason I ever struggle with PS summed up in one statement. It's a sentiment I share and know that several former PS players have buzzing around in the back of their minds. Thank you Candy.
@PhoenixRizin: Yes, the playerbase took a major hit when most of the people couldn't log in and you should see the current state of the cooking process and the cookbook. Coders are desperately needed. I think stabilizing the current client and shoring up the server would go a long way. People might be more tolerant of other coding set backs if they can at least get and stay in game.
@Zweitholou: Hiya Zwei. :)
In general, I think new is the wrong way to go.... New got us into this mess. I think fixing what is there should be a higher priority as it is already more than enough.
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I care.
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I wouldn't say "new" got us into this "mess", merely, PS had a fair amount of catching up to do. Now the code supports a fair amount of that catchup, there's some ripples to iron out. Everyone egged on "we want mounts" "we want detail maps" "we want cloaks/hoods/softcloth outfits"....
You can't say adding new features gets us into this mess or say we should stop adding new features to PS simple so there's less bugs.
Those who code new features usually don't bugfix. And vice-versa. Not to mention FINDING bugs in code, let alone figuring a way to recode to fix them, and not cause more issues, is VERY HARD. To stop adding new features and try focussing those on assets would mean no wishlist additions for years. Decades perhaps. Just as focussing on new stuff and not bugfixing at all would lead to code that doesn't work, period, in a matter of weeks/months. It's a fine balance, remember everyone is a volunteer, and can only work to whatever skills they have. We're not pros, heck, I've only known how to use Blender to a level of competency for about a year.
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Trust me, I know a thing or two about contributing. I Also know how quickly people go from "Oh cool! We got X." to "Man... I can't even stay in the game for 5 minutes without lagging out or crashing." I've talk to too many people who would like to play the game but can't for bugs keeping them out. Wishlist stuff is nice, but a lot of people can just appreciate the game as it is as long as the RP is sound. If you really like a game, you don't need constant bells and whistles added. Don't get me wrong, they are nice, but PS could be enjoyed even at it's previous states *cough* crystal hunting with Hydlaa as the only city *cough* If the client issues with logging in could be ironed out some more, I think we'd see a rise in player numbers. I know there are a lot of people out there lurking that would come back to PS if their clients weren't giving them trouble.. ;) You know who you are. :P
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So you obviously don't remember that the decline started before 0.5 was even released, because people were bored of not having new things added. Sure, it accelerated afterward, but they were already leaving because the game just wasn't keeping up or keeping people interested.
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Please allow me to offer my anecdotal experience/
I have now played PS for two full years. My first two months were challenging due to what I now know as 'mechanics'. But the initial role playing was was lured me in, and frankly the challenging nature of the quests kept me in. Some were easy enough, some I felt so proud when I figured them out myself, some I couldn't figure out and role players helped me IC, which taught me alot.
Then i was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time with a certain skill and got a prize from Jayose, which enabled me to quickly max my stats (by then I knew what that meant AND what it did for my ability to play the game). Without that prize I think my little elf would still be struggling along.
My point is the role playing and the cleverness of the quests kept me in game. For me it was cool to get new stuff but that was much less appealing than earning glyphs. The day I finally made it into the Winch was ridiculously fun.
My guess is there is a natural cycle within the generations of players within the game. You start. Everything is new and hard. You get help, you learn, you remember, you learn the lore, it helps with the quests, things get easier, so you start working on the harder stuff. Your character gets deeper, you develop history in your ig relationships. The rps get more involved cause you know more characters.
Then comes the time when, no matter what stuff is in or not, you feel like you've been there done that. You spend more time in the forums talking about the game, which is less time ig. Like me right now.... You grow out of it.
Now BIG new stuff might change that, in my ingame time the big new stuff has been rivnaks and drifters and mobs that are impossible to kill. But if what , a new race appeared, a crystal eclipse happened, a new city or map opened, a new set of quests came in, then my guess is even oldbies would come to check it out and play again until the newness is exhausted.
There are declines. There are increases. The newbies become the oldbies ~then perhaps become the jaded and leave either without fanfare or in a burst of flames.
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I failed to do this twice now, hard, but I think I got the clarification down.
What I was worried about in response to Talad's post (and many others now) is that they are treating it like a job. He speaks of working to make the game fun, when such a thing is impossible. Games are an art piece that turns out best only when the artist is having fun. They shouldn't be doing it to appease their player base, they shouldn't be doing to compare to some other game out there; they should be doing it because it's the one thing they really enjoy.
Oh, and I would love for there to be some massive catastrophy that even Talad and Laanx together have trouble coping with. Like the stalagtite falling into that massive lake. Or that one thing I would like to RP some day.
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undead apocalypse?
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Undead, whether of the disease or curse variety, are easily destroyed by gods. Especially a god with a chaotic source of power it can use to incinerate the offenders. I don't really want to elaborate publicly, it will ruin half the fun if I ever get it to happen.
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I care. I have a hard time finding time to play like I would wish, but I keep trying however I can.
RP is the only reason I am here. RP is also something I find myself doing very little of. Either I can't get in-game, or there aren't people around, or I am not good at starting it.
Probably a lot of all that.
I shall keep hacking at it though and am willing to participate to help in whatever manner I may. (which may not be much, or that reliable due to RL, but I will give what I can.)
This thread has got me to making another surge after some down time. hope to see meet you all in-game.
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This thread has got me to making another surge after some down time. hope to see meet you all in-game.
Made my day. \\o//
@Xoel: Yes people were leaving, but it never was the items that kept people in game, the top answer always was and always will be either, "this game isn't like the other MMOs" or "The RP isn't what it used to be.". You will never get to a point when new content added is sufficient to satisfy people, no matter how much new stuff you add. However, RP can be sufficient to keep people in game whether it's sufficient to shut them up or not. ;D I think it's shutting people up part that is actually impossible . ;)
To me, giving players new items and areas should be like build police stations, schools, etc in Simcity. The Simmies will ask you for everything under the sun all the time, and if you give them everything they ask for when they ask for without considering resource constraints, you will find yourself bankrupt and looking for a new job in no time. Yes, new stuff is nice, there is always room for new content, I myself used to push for it as well. But, in the end all new shinies do is give people the expectation that they should get new shinies constantly. Anyone, however, can get comfortable in a good RP without a whole lot of bells and whistles.
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You underestimate the power of "new" and "cool" stuff; people flock to it. The fact that runescape has something saying "new stuff!" every week is one of the main reasons it has so many players. The point that supports you here is the fact that we do not want the people drawn purely by "new stuff". Although, it's been a long time since I spoke with someone, who after getting shiny things, expected more shiny things. Then again, I think it was only once I came here that I spotted a couple people that cared about graphics at all. Awesome game mechanics, thought about enough but not too much, are the best "shiny" thing people could ask for.
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It's not an underestimation, it's just simply not quite right to solve the problem. We get lots of new people actually; the problem is that we don't retain them. The Dev Team is currently too small to churn out the amount of updates that would produce a reasonable retention rate, so other solutions are needed. A compelling RP storyline will not only give people a reason to log in but it will give them a reason to stay logged in for a longer period of time and give them reason to come back. Game mechanics are great too but again, only so much can be done with the number of people actively working on it.
The effect that RP has on retention rate is much stronger than other factors, I'm sure. Just look at the beginning of the game. As much as people liked the crystal hunts, I'm sure it was more that RP that kept them in the game. I mean, I'd get a little crazy having little more than the plaza to run around in. ;D In my own experience, a really good RP is the only thing that would make me log in at 7pm and stay in game till pretty close to 3am. I can't play Civilization, Simcity, or the Sims for 8 hours straight. ;) and I do mean straight through, in the golden days ;D I wouldn't even switch windows.
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Yeah, what we said already.
So was it the interaction with people, the addictive goal setting, or the actually role playing that you stuck with so much? If a combination, what percents? Those are three games you listed that are nothing like Plane Shift; if you want to compare, find some good MUDs, MMORPGs, or possibly procedural, story generators.
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The games are like PS in that they suck up massive amounts of time if you are into them. It has nothing to do with content. The pull of RP is how interesting the story being told is. It's not just the interaction, as even I think small talk and chit chat RP can wear thin pretty quickly, but the anticipation that comes with seeing how the other person reacts to the scenario you give them through your character. Sometimes though, it's not a story that causes the draw so much as the character. Some characters are compelling people and you can't wait to see what they say or do next and you keep waiting for the next joke or antic 5 hours later. ;D
For me, I guess one of my own personal examples would be RPing with Marqsaynt. He's was probably my favorite person to RP with as I would invariably spend most of the time cracking up. Most of his characters were good for one liners and it was fun to sit back and have my character watch his characters interact with other characters. It was a blast. Since I'm forever going on about the old RPs, I think I will go ahead and post snippets of RPs I did in the past so that people who are interested can get an idea of what it is oldies pine after. ;D I apologize to the oldbies in some of the snippets as they aren't around for me to ask if they mind me posting, but too bad you should have been here to say something. :P If you for some reason do really have a problem with having your characters name attached to the RP, I'll go through and edit it out, but there shouldn't be any issues.
This one is the RP where Marqsaynt and Zandral broke up. As good a couple as I thought they made, this was a pretty fun RP to do.
On the rooftop of Kada-el's
(21:56:09) Zandral says: ah...
(21:56:17) Zandral says: I see you found your way up here too...
(21:56:34) Marqsaynt shrugs casually and sets a half empty bottle down on the table...
(21:56:45) Marqsaynt says: Too many blasted idiots downstairs.
(21:56:50) Zandral leans on the table
(21:56:55) Zandral says: I know... that's why I'm up here.
(21:57:05) Zandral says: So, starting the party without me eh?
(21:57:15) Zandral gestures to the bottle
(21:57:55) Marqsaynt looks over at Zandral and raises an eyebrow "Trying to make me go sober, figured I wouldn't drink if you weren't around?"
(21:59:02) Zandral makes a face "No, I... i'd rather not talk about it.... it didn't go well...." she sighs and her shoulders slump
(21:59:52) Marqsaynt slides the bottle over to Zandral without asking.
(22:00:15) Zandral shrugs and takes a drink from the bottle
(22:00:43) Zandral says: Hmph...
(22:00:51) Zandral says: So... anything happen while I was gone?
(22:01:27) Marqsaynt says: Uh... *shrugs casually* You know how it is.
(22:02:51) Zandral says: Same stupid mess, different day?
(22:03:16) Marqsaynt says: Something like that... *nods at the bottle* you going to drink that?
(22:03:24) Zandral hands it back over
(22:03:39) Marqsaynt takes another swig from the bottle.
(22:04:05) Zandral sits on the edge of the table and looks back over her shoulder at Marqsaynt
(22:04:37) Marqsaynt raises the bottle in a silent cheers and takes yet another drink.
(22:05:55) Zandral looks at Marqsaynt "So, we agreeing to be miserable together today? " she manages a small smile and a dry chuckle
(22:06:45) Marqsaynt says: Mutual assured misery? Sounds like a lousy way to spend the day.
(22:06:57) Zandral says: Got any better ideas?
(22:07:30) Marqsaynt says: Could start by telling me why you're in such a lousy blasted mood.
(22:07:57) Zandral's face darkens "..."
(22:08:40) Zandral makes a smacking noise "Failed entry into the political realm number whatever..."
(22:09:12) Marqsaynt shrugs casually
(22:10:07) Zandral says: it didn't go right...
(22:10:11) Zandral says: What about you?
(22:10:58) Marqsaynt says: I... got a woman killed.
(22:11:38) Zandral lifts an eyebrow "Told too much information or something?"
(22:12:04) Marqsaynt says flatly "No."
(22:12:12) Marqsaynt says: Ambushed.
(22:12:22) Marqsaynt says: Stabbed in the back.
(22:23:52) Zandral says: That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with you. people get ambushed and stabbed all the time around here.
(22:24:19) Marqsaynt takes another drink from the bottle and adds "I was sitting next to her when it happened."
(22:25:01) Zandral says: Still not your fault. And if it happened in the city, no more so your job than the guards...
(22:25:50) Marqsaynt doesn't say anything.
(22:27:32) Zandral shrugs "Ah, don't be so hard on yourself... it's a rough place around here. She might even be better off in the death realm considering."
(22:27:56) Marqsaynt says with a bit of an edge "Considering what?"
(22:28:57) Zandral says: Considering the current state of affairs here on the dome. The safest place on the dome is likely Gug but Illysia is there so that is debateable.
(22:29:38) Marqsaynt says: Always such an optimist.
(22:30:06) Zandral says: I can't make charmflowers out of trepor dung....
(22:30:08) Zandral shrugs
(22:30:59) Marqsaynt smirks "So why don't we all just blasted throw ourselves into the nearest ravine? May be better off."
(22:32:46) Zandral says: Nah, you gotta survive the trip to the ravine first.
(22:32:54) Zandral sticks her tongue out at Marqsaynt
(22:33:02) Marqsaynt says: Cute...
(22:33:17) Zandral says: Always.
(22:33:19) Zandral smiles
(22:33:22) Marqsaynt takes another swig, then holds the bottle up to eye level to see how much is left.
(22:35:03) Zandral says: Oh come on, you can't call me on being less than positive if your going to drown your sorrows in a bottle behind some random woman.
(22:35:36) Marqsaynt smirks "You got a better reason to drink?"
(22:36:31) Zandral says: "I've got a million of them, but surely you don't want to just drink your life away." she grins at Marqsaynt coyly
(22:37:12) Marqsaynt arches an eyebrow "Why not? I thought that was the crux of this blasted conversation?"
(22:37:38) Marqsaynt says: End it, life's better when you're dead.
(22:38:03) Zandral sighs and rests her hand over her face
(22:38:14) Zandral says: So... let me get this straight....
(22:38:54) Zandral says: Some random woman dies in a completely common way next to you and now you are ready to give up on everything?
(22:39:05) Zandral lifts an eyebrow and looks at Marqsaynt
(22:39:51) Marqsaynt shrugs nonchalantly and says sarcastically "What can I say, I'm, uh, sensitive?"
(22:40:19) Zandral says: Not that sensitive...
(22:40:29) Marqsaynt says: So what are you getting at?
(22:40:40) Zandral looks at Marqsaynt "Was it that Mellas woman?"
(22:41:29) Marqsaynt for a brief moment looks caught off-guard but, recovers quickly "Where'd you hear that?"
(22:42:45) Zandral narrows her eyes "I guessed..."
(22:42:50) Zandral says: Well?
(22:43:03) Zandral looks at Marqsaynt expectantly but not too pleased
(22:43:06) Marqsaynt says: You've seen her? She alright?
(22:44:26) Zandral says: No... I haven't....
(22:44:46) Marqsaynt settles back down in his chair. "Yeah, alright."
(22:45:59) Zandral says: Why do you care so much what happens to her?
(22:46:15) Marqsaynt says: You seem to have things all figured out, why don't you tell me.
(22:49:06) Zandral says: I don't know... I've been wonder that myself for awhile now. Enlighten me...
(22:49:17) Zandral's tone starts to take a sharp edge
(22:49:32) Marqsaynt says: Nothings happened...
(22:49:55) Zandral says: Who is she?
(22:49:57) Marqsaynt says: She's engaged. Technically *points to himself* You can't pin anything on me.
(22:50:23) Zandral turns around more and stiffens a bit
(22:50:33) Zandral says: You mean I haven't found anything yet...
(22:51:44) Zandral says: So, she is just some random wench that you stumbled across?
(22:52:08) Marqsaynt says: You're angry... I'll let that slide...
(22:52:45) Zandral says: Oh... I suppose it's your turn to do that anyway...
(22:52:52) Marqsaynt says: The only thing you've found, and that you're going to find is I'm not happy.
(22:52:59) Marqsaynt says: I didn't -do- anything.
(22:53:08) Zandral looks a little more irritated
(22:53:57) Zandral says: So you are unhappy because she is dead or because you didn't do anything while you had the chance?
(22:55:21) Marqsaynt leans forward slightly "I'm unhappy because... I don't want the same things you want."
(22:55:48) Zandral stiffens more and leans back "And what do you want?"
(22:57:26) Marqsaynt says: Better question, what is it you want?
(22:58:45) Zandral says: No... that is just another question and a bad dodge...
(22:59:15) Marqsaynt says: Marriage, Family, Kids?
(22:59:21) Zandral says: But I want to be a vigesimi, I may not get there by the easy road but I haven't entirely given up yet...
(22:59:40) Marqsaynt says: You'd never get there with me, Beautiful...
(22:59:44) Zandral says: Anything else comes after, sure mother would like grandchildren but it can wait.
(22:59:51) Zandral says: Why not?
(23:00:50) Marqsaynt says: I don't want to get married, Zandral... I don't want any blasted kids... and I don't want to be the silent partner of a Vigisimi...
(23:01:09) Marqsaynt says: I've come out of "retirement."
(23:01:10) Zandral just sits there silent
(23:01:17) Zandral says: Oh...
(23:01:53) Zandral turns her head "Well... for once, I guess you are right..."
(23:02:19) Zandral tries to say something but just doesn't
(23:02:35) Marqsaynt says: I like what we have... I care about you
Zandral... but, I don't think we have a future. (Someone hacked this response in as we were RPing. I guess the hacker thought it was compelling enough to pay attention to, even if they were potentially going to make a mess of it. :p )
(23:14:24) Zandral says: Yes, but you just said you can't be happy with what I want...
(23:15:30) Marqsaynt says: I kill people for a living, Zandral... are you telling me you're alright with that?
(23:15:44) Zandral says: I can live with it.... No pun intended.
(23:15:50) Zandral shrugs
(23:16:05) Zandral says: If I was that delicate, I would not be here now.
(23:16:48) Marqsaynt says: And what about that career of yours?
(23:17:14) Zandral chuckles "You honestly think that the vigesimi are that squeaky clean?"
(23:17:39) Zandral looks back at Marqsaynt "I never realized you were that naive." she grins
(23:18:12) Marqsaynt raises an eyebrow "I try to stay out of politics, Beautiful... *winks* Too blood thirsty"
(23:20:02) Zandral says: And you ask me if I mind your profession....
(23:20:44) Zandral says: While I am touched you think to save my reputation, I'm afriad you are still functioning under a few misunderstandings...
(23:21:25) Marqsaynt says: Doesn't change the rest.
(23:21:32) Zandral says: What rest?
(23:21:52) Marqsaynt says: Zandral, I don't want to marry you.
(23:22:28) Marqsaynt says: I don't want kids... I don't want in-laws, I don't want to live in a blasted tent.
(23:23:37) Zandral says: Ok fine, I'll conceed the ultic part but when did I ever ask for the rest?
(23:23:45) Zandral lifts an eyebrow
(23:24:57) Marqsaynt gives Zandral a look "I thought you just blasted told me you wanted all that, "later"
(23:25:23) Zandral says: I said we could do it later... I thought you had all of a sudden decided you wanted it. I was humoring you.
(23:25:44) Zandral looks at Marqsaynt as if he as grown another head "You need to lay off the liquor buddy..."
(23:27:41) Marqsaynt says: How is it you can be so blasted rational about all this? This has nothing to do with logic, it's passion, and feeling, and lust, and love.... Life isn't a politics textbook!
(23:28:44) Zandral says: And what does that have to do with politics...
(23:29:27) Zandral says: Look, any politican worth their weight in paper knows bad stuff happens, bad people exist, crime will find it's way....
(23:29:55) Zandral says: A smart politician also knows about cutting deals and being practical.... discriminating, but practical.
(23:30:31) Zandral says: I can live with your little career move. It won't be the last time I intend to turn my head the other way.
(23:30:58) Zandral says: Love, lust, and passion is all fine and good but I really don't see where that comes into it.
(23:31:37) Marqsaynt leasn forward, looks Zandral dead in the eyes and says plain and simple "I don't want to have to compromise... This isn't some blasted deal to negotiate."
(23:32:12) Zandral sighs "Men... always over complicating things. What compromise?"
(23:32:39) Marqsaynt leans back in his chair and runs a hand through his hair...
(23:32:56) Zandral looks at Marqsaynt expectantly
(23:33:45) Marqsaynt says: Gods, am I going to have to spell it out... Zandral, I should be happy but, I'm not....
(23:34:11) Marqsaynt says: As far as I can figure it... I care about you but, Beautiful.. I don't love you.
(23:35:29) Zandral looks stunned
(23:36:14) Zandral just sits there with her mouth opening and closing
(23:37:00) Marqsaynt says: I'm sorry... it's nothing you did... and it has nothing at all to do with logic.
(23:37:45) Zandral says: What?
(23:37:51) Zandral blinks a bit
(23:38:53) Zandral giggles "no no no.... I couldn't have heard that right..."
(23:39:21) Marqsaynt says: I don't know how I could have said it any more clearly...
(23:39:23) Zandral waves her hand dismissively while wearing a tight smile "What was that again?"
(23:40:25) Zandral looks Marqsaynt directly in the eye
(23:40:33) Zandral says: So that's it?
(23:40:45) Zandral asks sweeetly "Nothing more to say?"
(23:41:08) Marqsaynt says: Not at the moment.
(23:41:32) Zandral says: well, then... I suppose there is.... nothing more to say for me either.
(23:41:51) Zandral says: "I guess I'll go get my things..." she plasters on a smile
(23:41:58) Marqsaynt says: Wait...
(23:42:13) Marqsaynt says: I'll move out. You can keep the room.
(23:42:19) Zandral says: Fine....
(23:42:31) >Zandral Caterean stands up.
(23:42:34) >Marqsaynt stands up.
(23:42:50) Zandral says: I suppose I should thank you though...
(23:43:07) Marqsaynt raises an eyebrow "You're kidding?"
(23:43:12) Zandral says: It wouldn't do for me to tied down with an old man anyway.... I still have so much left to do.
(23:43:26) Zandral smiles spitefully at Marqsaynt
(23:43:39) Marqsaynt's jaw tightens slightly but he takes it...
(23:43:49) Zandral sways a little more as she heads for the stairs
(23:43:49) Marqsaynt says: Anything else?
(23:44:08) Zandral says: "Nothing...." she calls back
This next one is me, Marqsaynt and Ixala. I mostly sat back and watched for this RP as I was just dying laughing. (in fact, if you bust a gut while reading this, I take no responsibility. Just head to the nearest hospital and have them sew you back up,) Once I got the point that I could almost understand her it was hilarious and watching her and Marq go back and forth was classic. I miss watching two funny characters going at it. It's one of the few times when you feel perfectly content sitting back and not participating in the RP that you could be sitting in the middle of. You know what... I think this is the first time I've ever been able to completely understand what was said in this RP. I guess there is something to be said for rereading your old RPs, you'll never know what you'll get out of it. I guess there should also be a slight PG-13 warning for a few allusions but there's nothing outrageous or anything.
Siting inside Kada-El's
(22:51:48) Ixala bumps into Marqsaynt
(22:52:01) Ixala says: oiy.. wassa.. a frakin' door or summit...
(22:52:07) Marqsaynt catches himself on the doorframe.
(22:52:22) Ixala puts her hands on her hips
(22:52:26) Marqsaynt says: Funny, I thought shadows stopped when I did.
(22:52:51) Ixala says: I ainten nea flipen shaadoo... ya's .. gurt ooof.
(22:52:55) Ixala frowns
(22:53:11) Ixala looks down at her chest
(22:53:20) Ixala says: ya's purrem all oota line...
(22:53:31) Marqsaynt smirks and gestures towards the door "Ladies first... I blasted guess that includes you."
(22:53:33) Ixala lifts her hands to her chest and adjusts herself
(22:53:52) Ixala says: shud frakin' fink so too..
(22:53:55) Ixala smirks
(22:54:23) Zandral lounges lazily in her chair
(22:54:35) Ixala leans her small frame on the bar
(22:54:45) Marqsaynt looks from Ixala to Zandral and walks over "That seat taken?"
(22:55:06) Zandral looks up and smiles widely "Not at all..."
(22:55:20) Ixala says: wanna watch im... luv... ees likely t'bump ya's offa tha sea' yassis on!
(22:55:27) >Marqsaynt takes a seat.
(22:56:00) Zandral looks oddly at Mimmi for a moment before turning her attention to Marqsaynt
(22:56:10) Marqsaynt raise an eyebrow at Ixala "I'd be offended... maybe, if I could blasted understand what you were saying. Let me guess, raised by Ulbers?"
(22:56:16) Zandral says: You can bump me anywhere you like.
(22:56:23) Zandral laughs
(22:56:20) Ixala says: wa'were tha' look fur? wa' I do?
(22:56:42) Zandral says: Well, mangling the language for one...
(22:56:58) Ixala says: I ainten manglin' nowt
(22:57:13) Zandral leans her head on her hand and looks at Mimmi with an amused grin "But you are...."
(22:57:19) Ixala says: s'ya frappin furry ears a fluffin it up.
(22:58:23) Zandral says: And your mouth is twisting and turning simple words in way that should be considered cruel and unusual punishment....
(22:58:39) Marqsaynt jokes "For the people who blasted have to listen to it."
(22:59:00) Ixala pouts and frowns at the same time
(22:59:12) Ixala says: ya'sis cruel....
(22:59:20) Zandral says: Last I check the laws only cared about mangling people, not their ears or their words.
(22:59:27) Marqsaynt shrugs casually "It's a cruel realm."
(22:59:30) Ixala says: bumprin inta folk.. and makin' mikki
(22:59:31) Marqsaynt says: You got a name?
(23:00:05) Ixala says: Mimmi
(23:00:07) Zandral mutters quitely "Probably, but I doubt we'd understand it or be able to pronounce it...."
(23:00:14) Ixala points at her self questioningly
(23:00:36) Ixala says: s'nea tha'ard..
(23:00:38) Ixala mutters
(23:00:58) Zandral says: Mimmi is it?
(23:01:00) Marqsaynt looks over at Zandral a grins "Her name is the first thing I was able to understand."
(23:01:07) Zandral crosses her legs
(23:01:46) Ixala says: p'raps yas needs a few o'em noggin' fings tha' thur schoolers are allays unnaboot!
(23:01:55) Zandral grins at Marqsaynt "Next time, don't don't bump into people so hard. You might rattle their words again."
(23:02:16) Marqsaynt gives his best innocent look "Hey, she bumped into me."
(23:02:42) Ixala says: I nevva.. ya's suddenly were a frakin' door..!
(23:03:00) Zandral says: A door?
(23:03:07) Marqsaynt looks back to Ixala "Then next time blasted knock!"
(23:03:15) Zandral laughs
(23:03:31) Ixala says: I wulda.. burr... burr.....
(23:03:37) Ixala struggles to find a retort.
(23:03:46) Zandral giggles again
(23:04:06) Ixala says: Yasis lackin' a flippin' knocker!
(23:04:46) Ixala says: Mind tha.. yas' were happi'enuf t'muddle mine...
(23:04:48) Marqsaynt shrugs "I knew I forgot something this morning."
(23:04:56) Zandral laughs
(23:05:06) Zandral says: That and the rest of the days events...
(23:05:39) Ixala stares at Zandral
(23:06:10) Ixala says: doon I know tha....
(23:06:13) Marqsaynt throws Zandral a wink "Hey, I remember the important ones."
(23:06:32) Zandral grins at Marqsaynt "You better..."
(23:06:56) Marqsaynt turns back to Ixala "So, Mimi what are you doing around here? Or did blasted Laanx just put you in the realm to get back at me?"
(23:07:07) Ixala grins
(23:08:15) Ixala lifts her finger up and waggles it a little then as she makes a tsss sound as she sucks in her breath.. she zig-zags her hand down to her bottom that she punts out towards Marqsaynt... and presses her finger onto her bum...
(23:08:33) Ixala says: I is faa too 'ot fur tha.. likes oo.. tha...
(23:09:02) Zandral laughs "I find that hard to believe."
(23:09:27) Marqsaynt raises an eyebrow and says sarcastically "Right... guess I'll save myself the trouble and just not even try."
(23:09:36) Ixala folds her arms as she stares at Zandral for a moment
(23:10:06) Marqsaynt sends Zandral a grin "Guess I'll just have to "settle" for you..."
(23:10:08) Zandral looks Mimmi in the eye
(23:10:28) Zandral looks at Marqsaynt and rolls her eyes "You never settled for so good."
(23:10:33) Zandral smiles
(23:10:34) Ixala says: I duz know tha.... yas is a frakkin' toofle ainten ya...
(23:11:06) Zandral says: Toofle?
(23:11:12) Zandral lifts an eyebrow
(23:11:27) Marqsaynt says: You know, toofle... as in too, uh, toof.
(23:11:29) Marqsaynt grins.
(23:11:35) Ixala says: tho... ya's as... dyed tha' fur or summit... istha on the run or summit?
(23:12:16) Ixala says: yasis tha' frakin toofle Cat in a reen... ainten tha...
(23:12:26) Zandral says: On the run? My dear, I need not run from anyone.
(23:12:40) Zandral says: And I am most certainly not a cat...
(23:12:46) Zandral narrows her eyes at Mimmi
(23:13:22) Ixala says: ya's is ainten tha... tha' frappin royalis' cat-in-a-reen.
(23:13:38) Zandral says: Caterean?
(23:13:42) Zandral laughs
(23:13:46) Ixala says: yur.. s'wa' I said
(23:14:17) Zandral says: I may be a Caterean but I am not affiliated with the "Royals" that is my sister.
(23:14:28) Ixala says: ya's sister...
(23:14:36) Marqsaynt laughs
(23:14:48) Ixala looks at Marqsaynt
(23:14:49) Marqsaynt says: Oh gods.. she thought you were Illysia!
(23:15:01) Ixala says: wha.... em's looks a like...
(23:15:06) Marqsaynt says: Dyed fur... that's too fantastic.
(23:15:16) Zandral makes a face "Ughh..."
(23:15:19) Marqsaynt looks at Zandral, then back to Ixala "I don't see the resemblance."
(23:15:46) Ixala says: ya's gorra looka' thur face.. nea the frappin jugglers... sheesh.. men!
(23:16:16) Zandral laughs
(23:16:38) Marqsaynt stifles a grin "That was actually pretty good... assuming I'm blasted translating it right."
(23:16:54) Zandral laughs again
(23:17:05) Ixala says: ya's betcha!
(23:17:15) Ixala nods putting her hand on her hip again
(23:17:27) Marqsaynt says: Your tongue may be fighting your teeth but, at least it's sharp enough.
(23:17:55) Zandral breaks into peals of laughter
(23:18:35) Zandral says: You always do like a girl to fire a come back at you don't you?
(23:18:41) Ixala says: ya's wachit.... me foot as a frappin ta'oo... i'reads, iffen tha's readin vis.. yas nea quick enuf..
(23:20:11) Zandral looks over at Marqsaynt "Hmm... you may need to be careful."
(23:20:48) Marqsaynt gives Zandral a look "I hope that's a joke."
(23:20:58) Ixala says: so.. yas' nea a frappin toofle en...
(23:21:11) Zandral shakes her head at Marqsaynt
(23:21:23) Ixala looks at Zandral... as she thumbs at Marqsaynt
(23:21:55) Ixala says: cuz'ims nea un.. eee culdnea be... tea frappin common fur a frappin toofle...
(23:22:04) Marqsaynt says to Zandral "You catch that last one or did it all sound like a yulber that just got its tail stomped on?"
(23:22:44) Zandral laughs
(23:22:59) Marqsaynt says: Guess that's a 'no.'
(23:23:11) Zandral says: I haven't figured out what a toofle is but I think I got the rest of it.
(23:23:23) Ixala leands back on the chair aside her.
(23:23:26) Marqsaynt looks back to Ixala "Fine, new topic. How do you know her *nods towards Zandral* Sister?
(23:23:50) Zandral looks back at Mimmi
(23:24:05) Ixala says: She's a soddin' toofle a' runs thur gug place.
(23:24:29) Ixala looks at the back of her hand...
(23:24:30) Zandral leans over "Still haven't gotten toofle yet..."
(23:24:45) Marqsaynt jokes "But she's a toofle too... must run in the family."
(23:25:01) Zandral rolls her eyes
(23:25:11) Ixala says: oh for fraks sake... a soddin richun... a toofle.. a tooofee nosed soddin toofle
(23:25:32) Zandral says: A rich person?
(23:25:42) Marqsaynt laughs again
(23:25:51) Ixala says: 'n'stuckup 'n'all
(23:25:53) Marqsaynt looks over at Zandral "You've been holding out on me."
(23:26:06) Marqsaynt looks back to Ixala "A snob?"
(23:26:13) Zandral grins "no, I left it in my other fur."
(23:26:35) Ixala says: well... ainten thee thur smar'un..
(23:26:36) Marqsaynt chuckles and gives Zandral a quick wink "Next time you're buying the drinks."
(23:26:39) Zandral says: One thing my sister isn't is a snob.... She has too many weird friends to call her that.
(23:26:49) Ixala slaps her head at Marqsaynt
(23:26:50) Marqsaynt smirks "Well I have my moments."
(23:27:37) Ixala says: ems... all royals.. an' all royals are fraking toofles... a tooflin' away's at thee...
(23:27:51) Ixala mutters
(23:27:52) Zandral says: She's not even a royal.
(23:28:07) Ixala says: she wear ems mark...
(23:28:08) Zandral says: She's a fenki from an unheard of town in the country...
(23:28:12) Marqsaynt says: Whoa, wait. All three?
(23:28:33) Marqsaynt says: Who's the third?
(23:28:45) Zandral rolls her eyes "And you wear a mouth but I can't call you an orator for that."
(23:29:01) Ixala says: fird?
(23:29:05) Marqsaynt rubs his forehead, looking like he's getting a headache...
(23:29:23) Ixala says: I ainten inta' oratin.. s'gustin... tha's fur wenches...
(23:29:29) Marqsaynt says: forget it, i heard "fird" but it was "thee".
(23:29:55) Zandral rolls here eyes and mutter "Stupid girl....."
(23:30:10) Zandral says: Oration is speaking done by speakers...
(23:30:14) Ixala purses her lips
(23:30:56) Ixala mimmics Zandral, almost perfectly in sound 'Oration... is for your mouth and other things...'
(23:31:15) Marqsaynt arches an eyebrow "Say that again."
(23:31:31) Zandral narrows her eyes "And a brain is apparently not for the likes of you..."
(23:31:51) Marqsaynt puts a hand up to Zandral "Hold up a second."
(23:32:43) Zandral just looks at Marqsaynt
(23:32:46) Ixala snaps back at Zandral almost alike Zandral's voice 'oh, and you are nea a toofle... what brain.'
(23:33:18) Ixala swallows hard as she refrains from coughing.
(23:33:25) Marqsaynt looks over at Zandral "I think you jarred something free in the blasted head of hers... almost sounds like words."
(23:33:52) Zandral says: I doubt anything rattles around in the emptiness between her ears...
(23:34:36) Zandral looks back at Mimmi "I know enough to know you wouldn't know a brain if you suddenly developed one."
(23:34:38) Ixala jiggles her head side to side and mimmics Marqsaynt.. albeit a little too high voiced.. but is sounds like him 'you can't talk... '
(23:35:13) Marqsaynt seems amused.
(23:35:19) Zandral says: Which is more than you can do....
(23:35:26) Ixala stomps off...
(23:35:34) Zandral says: You can't make proper sounding words...
(23:35:45) Ixala pauses only to say as she grips her backside
(23:35:54) Marqsaynt says: Those sounded pretty blasted proper to me...
(23:35:59) Ixala sounds like Marqsaynt 'BITE ME'
(23:36:05) Zandral says: You first.
(23:36:09) Zandral smiles
(23:36:35) Zandral says: Or better yet.... pucker up....
(23:36:42) Marqsaynt gives a so-so sign with his hand "Sounds not bad but, didn't catch the character."
(23:37:17) Zandral looks back at Marqsaynt "Huh?"
(23:37:37) Marqsaynt says: The voice... I've never said blasted "bite me" in my life.
(23:38:12) Marqsaynt says: Too easy.. too dumb... *grins* too much like Org.
(23:38:15) Zandral shrugs "Have you ever seen her before?"
(23:38:18) Zandral laughs
(23:38:25) Marqsaynt rubs his jaw, thinking...
(23:38:53) Marqsaynt says: Maybe... *grins* Usually my memory is so blasted good too.
(23:39:00) Zandral grins
This RP is set in the Aftermath of Zandral and Marqsaynt breaking up. I was RPing with Orgonwukh. Org is a very distinct and funny character too but more so because of his antics than what he says. As a bit of background, Org and Marq were not on good terms with each other and for various reasons Zandral didn't like him either. However, in the aftermath of the break up, Zan was planning some serious payback and not the toss your stuff out the second story window kind of revenge either. She was trying to recruit Org for the plan.
It was a shame... the plan was so good it was juicy. But when I actually implemented it, I did an experiment. I completely let the RP go the way it was going to go without trying to enforce any direction. I didn't want it to be scripted. End the end it went exceedingly well at first and then got completely shut down, Marq got saved in the end. Even though the bulk of the plan never panned out I think it was still fun as it allowed the player actions (character reactions) to define the outcome of the RP instead of OOC guiding and directing.
(16:14:41) Orgonwukh storms into tavern
(16:14:47) Zandral looks over at Orgonwukh for a moment and starts to frown but then smiles
(16:14:48) Orgonwukh says: Gree....
(16:14:58) Zandral says: Huh?
(16:15:34) Orgonwukh says: ...tings brave citizens and Zandral.
(16:15:40) Orgonwukh smirks and walks to the counter
(16:15:44) Samaiel rolls his eyes. "Good." and looks back at Orgonwukh, running a seemingly disinterested eye over the Diaboli before looking back at Zandral.
(16:15:44) Zandral says: Alright....
(16:16:02) Samaiel grins. "Is this the big boy you were talking about?"
(16:16:14) Zandral looks at Samaiel for a moment and smiles "Excuse me for a moment."
(16:16:18) >Zandral Caterean stands up.
(16:16:20) Samaiel nods, shrugging.
(16:16:35) Zandral says: Org! how good to see you....
(16:16:47) Orgonwukh stiffens a bit as Zandral comes closer "Yeeees? Really?"
(16:17:02) Azilim smirks a bit and pops his back, sipping his drink.
(16:17:12) Zandral smiles "Of course. How have you been? Is that Red Crystal Den of yours going well?"
(16:18:07) Orgonwukh looks a bit unsure at Zandral "I am fine." he pauses "I am not involved in that business." he pauses "Why the heck are you asking me? Last time we met you send a mug flying towards me as far as I remember."
(16:18:26) Orgonwukh looks Zandral over suspiciously
(16:18:28) Zandral says: Oh trifles... triffles....
(16:18:31) Fuflu chuckles quietly
(16:18:39) Zandral says: I appologize... I overracted.
(16:18:48) Zandral says: Surely we can put it behind us?
(16:18:52) Zandral smiles sweetly
(16:19:23) Orgonwukh tilts his head from left to right, pondering for a moment, then he sketches a broad smile "Suuuuure."
(16:19:29) Zandral says: Good.
(16:19:43) Zandral says: In fact. Let me buy you a drink to make up for it.
(16:20:00) Zandral lays some tria on the counter and orders a beer for Org
(16:20:04) Samaiel watches the exchange, a candid smile on his face
(16:20:11) Orgonwukh says: Uhm, I prefer liquor!
(16:20:17) Zandral says: fine...
(16:20:26) Zandral looks at Allelia "A red liquor then..."
(16:20:55) Zandral smiles at Orgonwukh "It's been awhile since i've seen you about but it is so good to see you again."
(16:21:26) Orgonwukh says: Yeah, it's always good to meet the champ, eh? As long as you are in good standing, that is, of course.
(16:21:29) Orgonwukh chuckles impishly
(16:21:54) Zandral giggles "Yes... of course. You know what... I have a little proposition for you."
(16:22:01) Samaiel watches Orgonwukh, ears flicking back ever so slightly
(16:22:38) Orgonwukh laughs "Aaaah! I knew it! You want something! Speak up!"
(16:22:54) Zandral says: So loud...
(16:23:12) Orgonwukh stiffles his laughter "Sorry..."
(16:23:16) Zandral says speaks quietly
(16:23:35) Orgonwukh looks at Estava over Zandral's shoulder, stiffening a bit again
(16:23:50) [Tell] Zandral whispers "I know you don't care for Marqsaynt all that much... How would you like a chance to get good and even?"
(16:24:05) Zandral gives Orgonwukh a devious smile
(16:26:19) Samaiel closes his eyes, flicking a tria between his fingers again.
(16:26:38) Zandral looks behind her
(16:26:53) Zandral says: Need help miss?
(16:27:03) Estava stares at Orgonwukh
(16:27:41) Zandral looks expectantly at Estava
(16:27:42) Orgonwukh grins at Estava "Sorry, not available tonight." and he sniggers
(16:28:07) Zandral sighs and turns around
(16:28:08) Fuflu shkes her head at Orgonwukh
(16:28:21) Zandral addresses Org "Well?"
(16:28:39) Fuflu walks downstairs
(16:28:46) Orgonwukh says: What happened? I suppose cheating? Hmm?
(16:28:54) Zandral says: Nevermind that...
(16:28:57) Zandral smiles
(16:29:24) Orgonwukh's face lights up "Aaah, cheating. It's the diaboli nature. Not everyone can control it."
(16:29:30) Orgonwukh shrugs "I am open for ideas."
(16:30:06) Zandral says: Oh... let's put it this way... He won't know what's going on and you will be free to do what you like soon...
(16:30:16) Zandral says: I just need...
(16:30:22) Zandral speaks quietly again
(16:31:01) [Tell] Zandral whispers "to get him alone again and then he won't know what hit him... or anything else for that matter."
(16:31:13) Zandral smiles sweetly... too sweetly
(16:31:24) Estava leans against the counter, patiently waiting
(16:31:25) Orgonwukh leans towards Zandral again, eyeing Estava over her shoulder, also winking and smiling at Kauwela shortly
(16:31:55) Zandral says: Sound good?
(16:32:09) Orgonwukh's eyes widen a bit, then he nods shortly
(16:32:22) Zandral says: Good...
(16:32:57) Zandral says: You'll know everything is in order, when you aren't... recognized..
(16:33:03) Zandral smiles
(16:33:51) Orgonwukh just shortly nods once
(16:34:04) Zandral looks back at the ylian behind her in irritation
(16:34:16) Zandral looks back to Orgonwukh "Any questions?"
(16:34:57) Orgonwukh nods "Can we seal this new friendship?"
(16:35:03) Zandral says: How so?
(16:35:21) Orgonwukh opens his arms and grins broadly "Hug?"
(16:35:52) Zandral says: Won't Dinn.... er.... um... Semutara object?
(16:36:13) Orgonwukh says: Naaaah, it's just business issue!
(16:36:42) Orgonwukh attempts to hug Zandral
(16:36:43) Zandral sighs "fine" she quickly makes a face before opening up her arms
(16:36:53) Zandral hugs Orgonwukh
(16:37:15) Orgonwukh laughs and hugs Zandral tightly, running his hands over her back, trying to detect something she might conceal
(16:38:03) Estava giggles. watching the two
(16:38:18) Zandral says: Alright alright...
(16:38:21) Orgonwukh finishes his search by casually squeezing a butt cheek slightly, then lets Zandral go off again
(16:38:22) Zandral pulls away
(16:38:23) Orgonwukh says: That felt good.
(16:38:35) Zandral gives Orgonwukh a look
(16:38:39) Zandral says: Let's not get happy now...
(16:38:52) Orgonwukh grins innocently
This last one is actually set before Marq and Zan broke up, in fact I think this is before they were officially together(wow it's been awhile. This RP is a year old). I'm including it because of the funny unexpected turn in the RP towards the end. One of the reasons I never liked the idea of only RPing with "your group" is that you miss this opportunities for memorable moments out of the blue. I was RPing with Marq and it was just the two of us in the tavern RPing together for hours I think. Eventually Sarras wandered in and threw a funny little curveball into the RP. Sarras... if you were too lazy to read or even skip down this far, too bad as you are going to miss this statement: Sarras, this was awesome and hilarious. ;D At least I think so, maybe you had to be interrupted in the RP some unexpectedly to find it funny. Warning, there is kissing in this RP for those that might care. Hide the kids.... >.> <.< >.>
(01:14:46) Marqsaynt looks back over at the fireplace "Blasted great night for a fire."
(01:15:17) Zandral says: Every night is a good night for a fire.
(01:15:40) Zandral adds as an afterthought "Especially in Hydlaa."
(01:16:24) Marqsaynt says: Still... Some better than others.
(01:16:38) Zandral says: Oh, why is it better tonight then?
(01:16:40) Zandral smiles
(01:17:35) Marqsaynt looks down at Zandral in his arms and grins "I'll give you three guesses."
(01:18:17) Zandral grins and teases "Jomed?"
(01:19:38) Marqsaynt says: So you know? What can I say... sometimes hate just turns into love...
(01:19:56) Zandral laughs
(01:20:16) Marqsaynt smiles "Or maybe it's something else."
(01:20:23) Zandral says: Indigestion?
(01:21:11) Marqsaynt laughs
(01:21:21) Marqsaynt says: I wasn't talking about blasted Jomed.
(01:21:29) Zandral says: Oh...
(01:21:35) Zandral grins
(01:22:06) Zandral says: So what something else are you refering to then?
(01:22:48) Marqsaynt leans down and gives Zandral a long kiss.
(01:23:58) Zandral closes her eyes
(01:24:48) Zandral grins "I think I know now."
(01:25:30) Marqsaynt winks "Well, I still woudn't mind sending you a few more hints, just in case"
(01:26:08) Zandral says: I'm not objecting.
(01:26:15) Zandral grins
(01:26:45) Marqsaynt grins and kisses her again, pressing her close.
(01:27:09) Sarras waves her hands in the air. "Hey, I'm heeere."
(01:27:25) Marqsaynt looks at Zandral "Did you say something?"
(01:27:30) Zandral breaks away and looks back in irritation
(01:27:43) Zandral narrows her eyes at Sarras
(01:28:34) Sarras frowns at Zandral. "Don't need to see you guys making out while I'm trying to relax..."
(01:28:46) Zandral says: Close your eyes....
(01:28:58) Sarras says: It's the sound that bothers me.
(01:29:07) Zandral rolls her eyes
(01:29:25) Marqsaynt finally looks over at Sarras "Hey, there's a dermorian here."
(01:29:48) Marqsaynt looks back at Zandral with pseudo-surprise "How long has she been here?"
(01:30:02) Sarras says: A while.
(01:30:08) Zandral says stiffly "Long enough..."
(01:31:31) Marqsaynt says: Trying to pick up some tips or something?
(01:37:56) Zandral looks a bit disgusted
(01:38:09) Zandral quickly kisses Marqsaynt "I will see you later."
(01:38:11) >Zandral Caterean stands up.
(01:38:22) Zandral heads upstairs
(Hey... guess what. There is a limit to the amount you can post. Good thing this was the last RP I was going to put in this set... :whistling: )
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i believe you're the only one who can bear to play PS 8 hours straight, illysia. personally, i find the roleplay mundane and the PvE tedious. maybe you like sex and the city, but i prefer shows like 24. atm none of the major events/roleplays have a real consequence on anything much. MEH!
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wow Orgonwukh is back \o/
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i believe you're the only one who can bear to play PS 8 hours straight, illysia. personally, i find the roleplay mundane and the PvE tedious. maybe you like sex and the city, but i prefer shows like 24. atm none of the major events/roleplays have a real consequence on anything much. MEH!
Well, not everyone likes roleplays that have a real consequence e.g. on Yliakum. I personally don't want an Yliakum action story but rather a roleplay environment.
Sen
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@Sarras: No, it was very common. Mind you the people that could do it were in it for the story not the action. The whole motivation was different. No action RP is going to go on 8 hours. *shrugs* Oh and I knew you wouldn't skim my comments enough to catch the compliment for you. ;D
@Weltall: No That is how old the log is.... >.> Shame I lost a lot of my logs.
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lol, i was too lazy to read that far. funny.
since it seems like you've never watched the show, 24 actually lasts 24 hours. and it does have a story, much deeper than sex and the city or whatever you watch. the reason i like 24 is because it has a great edge-of-your-seat story. it's not just some action show. it has a real story, and you would know that if you saw it.
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Any action has a story behind it, points if it's a good one. But it's not the story that determines how long it can go, it's the amount of "edge of your seat" adrenaline rush. I have watched the show, but it is fiction Sarras, no real person can handle a constant stream of high action like that for 24 hours straight. (and with the stuff happening in that show, there is no such thing a truly sleeping... @_@) People in high stress professions like that usually have low life expectancy rates, they literally can die from the stress. Also keep in mind that Jack Bauer's 24 hours is your 1. ;) If you had to watch a 24 marathon for 8 hours straight.... you'd probably be ridiculously worn out by the end and only do that once. ;D
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Illysia, it looks like the rp that you favor resembles a soap opera or an episode of "doctor who" - where the focus is mor on the conversation, interaction and character details. I have to admit that I've never been able to sit though
"Another world" or "doctor who". Just personal preference. From your examples I can see how one could immerse in the conversation and live the rp.
Its just not much of an escape for me. When I rp I like to break from reality and experience danger, trouble, mystery, adventure... That's what gets me interested.
I do agree though that unless people "care about one another" and are "attached" icly, such action oriented rp has little impact.
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I like a lotta pew pew with some chit chat.
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We have very different ideas of what fun is. The contents of those chat logs are the kind of thing I would want to get over with quickly.
The games are like PS in that they suck up massive amounts of time if you are into them. It has nothing to do with content.
First response: "what?" then a long pause. It has everything to do with content! You listed three command and micromanagement games; ones which have almost nothing to do with role-playing (what they do only acts as support for the rest of the game; it's not real role-playing). Hobbies, video games, sports, buying things, plain TV, travel, Geo(caching|hashing), parties, jobs, and house work all suck up massive amounts of time. Do you really think that's the best criteria to compare Plane Shift to? Why would it even come to your mind?
If you want to find media to compare Plane Shift to, find things that care about sense, that care about story, and that care about the people that can give it life!
I would immediately suggest Dwarf Fortress and the community forts and stories, but I think I've done that too many times (if it isn't blasphemy to suggest such a thing).
{Starving. Later.}
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Any action has a story behind it, points if it's a good one. But it's not the story that determines how long it can go, it's the amount of "edge of your seat" adrenaline rush. I have watched the show, but it is fiction Sarras, no real person can handle a constant stream of high action like that for 24 hours straight. (and with the stuff happening in that show, there is no such thing a truly sleeping... @_@) People in high stress professions like that usually have low life expectancy rates, they literally can die from the stress. Also keep in mind that Jack Bauer's 24 hours is your 1. ;) If you had to watch a 24 marathon for 8 hours straight.... you'd probably be ridiculously worn out by the end and only do that once. ;D
nearly every show is fiction. there is no way jack bauer could do all of his bauer-stuff in 24 hours. but... duh?
and no, those people don't have low life expectancies. i don't know what you're getting at.
aaand i have watched a marathon for 8 hours straight, and i sure will do it again. i'm sure i could watch a 24 marathon for 8 hours straight, too. maybe even longer.
illysia, what is your occupation? just curious.
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It's just a preference difference, notice that you three (Rigwyn, Sarras, Nivm) all prefer action. People who come to RP for action rarely ever seem to care as much about the stuff in my RPs, but that kind of stuff has it's own appeal. Just look at how soap operas are still quite popular even though action movies exist. ;) I personally detest action RPs, but it's probably because so often they are written more with Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool) in mind than good story. Action has it place, but I don't need someone just squeezing reasons to get worked up into to tight a span on of time just for the sake of doing it. However I did have fun RPing trying to kill Jacula and that was definitely action intense for me. It depends on how good the story involved is.
@Rigwyn: For me it's kinda the other way around. I got more than enough reasons in my real life to have my heart rate up and adrenaline running. Not to mention adrenaline rushes often make feel a bit sick afterward. Action RPs are very tiring and draining for me which can suck the fun out of playing so I go for the stuff that can get you worked up but can also calm down quickly again too. I suppose also mention that for people like me, sometimes RPs like the ones I posted can have the same adrenaline affect if it is an intense moment, it just doesn't come from whether or not your character will die. Maybe it comes from whether or not your character's life will be irreparably screwed up after the events of the RP. And yeah, the connection is key in any RP regardless of the driving force.
@Nivm: For the purpose it was meant, those games are fine. You are waaay over analyzing it. However, let me try putting it this way, those are some of the games I would rather play in face of not being able to RP like I want to and they would hold my attention quite effectively for some time.
@Sarras: Sarras, any high stress job wears people down. Like Air traffic controllers. The thing that saves them from dying off is that they often retire far earlier than they would in other professions. This is fact, the human body can only take so much constant stress before it starts breaking down. And if you would watch 24 straight through for 8 hours you must have an adrenaline deficiency, because that much tension should kill an elephant. ;D My, occupation is whatever I can get but I am more of a quiet desk job person.
Hmm, this might be the hereto unexplained reason for such a drop off of RP in PS. The old RPs are no longer what appeals to the new community as it is filled with more people that like action over drawn out conversation. The old RPs thrived on a bit of both I think but now balance has shifted. It looks like the action people will just have to be more proactive and get the community back rolling as convo people might not do much good these days.
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That's a good point Illysia. It would be interesting to know what percentage of the community would prefer conversation or action as a first choice.
I have to wonder now.. During the so called "golden age of planeshift rp" ( I take it this was prior to 2008), what type of rp was more popular: action or conversation based?
Lastly, looking at the posted rp logs, I liked the one with ixala the best as there was an element of comedy, curiousity, and some mild tension. Reading through I kept wondering what would happen next.. And wondered how the characters involved would react. This was interested in a more relaxed way.
I have the pleasure of rping with ixala once or twice before and was rather amused with her character. You never really know if you fully understand her or not which leaves a lot of room for surprise.
(There we go again, surprise, humor, etc... )
I can't help it, I'm the type that likes a lot of salt, pepper and ketchup ;). I want stand food that doesn't jump off the plate and shout "eat me!"
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;D The Golden Age was probably earlier than that and wound down in around 2008. But, sit down and talk RPs were far more common and the Kada's and Harn's smithy were the hubs for that. The smithy more so for some reason. XD That's even why Harn complains about it in one quest. At the time, it kinda was like town hall as people would head to the grass of the smithy and sit and talk and hang out with friends. Now it's mostly crafters there.
Stuff like the RP with Ixala was way more common but people had to be more in the habit of doing conversation RPs to pull it off. (it also helps if the RPers are familiar with each other too. :whistling: ) However, all three of us in that RP are oldbie players. Most of the time now, time is spent getting characters use to interacting or trying to help them develop their character. In that RP, Zandral was the least developed character and quite truthfully, it might be why she had the least to say.
One of the major components of those long conversation RPs that I think is overlooked is that it was character building time for non action characters, which were much more common. Most would do some action eventually, but not constant robberies, kidnappings, murders, etc... It was just as disruptive in game as it would be in real life to live in a city like that. However, the long conversations would often delve into where the character was from, family, reasons for being in Hydlaa, what they like to do, etc... and it gave the players time to let their character's unique personality shine while forcing them, in a way, to develop the character if they hadn't already done so. That is how all of my characters up till Mirodii were developed. Before her, they got a name, a starting location, and a profession maybe a hobby or two and a personality quirk. That's it. From then out they developed based on the interactions with the characters they encountered and the situations they found themselves in because of it.
Even now they still develop that way. At the time I first created Zandral, she was supposed to be a real cow and think she was better than everyone but the RPs she got involved in right from the start took her in another direction. Now, her circumstances have changed and she is that kind of character. It took awhile for her development to get to the point where I could pull of and justify her character being the way I wanted her to be, but now that she is there, no one questions it. It's natural enough to where everyone can accept meeting Zan as a real downturn in their day. Most people anyway.... ;D
But in the past, funny stuff like Ixala and Marq going at it was way more common. People must think the conversations that typically happen now were what people did in the past, but this now is a poor shadow of the parties and conversations of the past. That's why the oldbies left, it isn't good enough for them either. ;) But it can be a great deal of fun and that feeling of wondering what would happen next is what I mean by compelling storyline. You want to see how the characters react. That was OUR action. It had nothing to do with baddie RP a lot of the time, but it would have you on the edge of your seat just the same, even if you were dying laughing. This is the kind of stuff that I am struggling to bring back, but it will take a whole lot of character development and open character interaction to bring it back. I definitely think it is worth it, even action RPs need a few conversation RPs around to get word out, and those RPs make up the everyday stuff that lets the action shine as the extraordinary.
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People must think the conversations that typically happen now were what people did in the past, but this now is a poor shadow of the parties and conversations of the past. That's why the oldbies left, it isn't good enough for them either.
After overhearing some "RP" at the tavern recently, I have to agree. The phrase "poor shadow" is really being kind. But at the same time, those older players did in fact leave. Its not like every single one of them couldn't start their clients or had massive technical problems. The players that supported and generated that kind of RP really don't seem to have had much more commitment to the system than anybody else.
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A lot of times, RL made them leave, then when a key player is missing from a plot, the plot shuts down. Once that happens, you can loose a few more players. Then the cycle repeats. The problem is that those players lurk but don't feel like coming back, that's because there isn't much to come back to. They did hang in there pretty good. They were there before there was little else before RP, but the difference now is that it takes more than nostalgia to get them back in game. Until the community can regularly turn out interesting RPs on its own, a lot of the oldbies and midbies won't come and very few newbies will stay.
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If you ask me, I'de say focus on the present. Let those who have left be gone.
If something can be done to encourage your flavor of rp now, then thats what
needs to be focused on. You cannot bring the dead back to life, but you can
nurture the living.
If the *now* becomes very good then perhaps those who left will be enticed
to create new characters and start over.
As long as ps does things to attract the non-rp type player, you will be cursed
with noobs who have no interest in learning to rp. The percentage that catch on
and try will be smaller than what it could be. I've complained about this before
so I wont do it again.
Honey attracts ants, garbage attracts skunks and raccoons, feces attracts flies.
You want to attract birds ? You need birdseed - and it needs to be scattered where
there are birds.
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Honey attracts ants, garbage attracts skunks and raccoons, feces attracts flies.
You want to attract birds ? You need birdseed - and it needs to be scattered where
there are birds.
And then we come back to the same problem. "Now what?" What has to be done to nurture the community to a healthy state? The team has been trying to come up with something, but the whole problem is that none of us knows exactly what it would take. And far more is needed than removing certain types of players. The whole issue is quite complicated. But if action RP is what people want, and it would make sense as that is the RP that often attracts the most new people, then the next step has nothing to do with what is implemented by the PS team but what is implemented by players. Part of the reason for trying to resurrect the dead, is not for chasing the old days but because you need to have enough experienced RPers to train the new set. Too few people doing it on their own get burned out and leave before enough is accomplished.
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illysia, you really think i'm going to believe that? no wonder you want a desk job. you're useless. and i don't get adrenaline rushes from television shows. i didn't even know that was possible.
get out there and roleplay rather than whining. this thread is ridiculous.
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Nothing hinges on your believing it, it's fact Sarras. As for the adrenaline rush, if you say so... I do roleplay, but you probably aren't in game enough to see that, why don't you try RPing instead of whining about this thread. ;)
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Illysia, that is exactly what I said. If they cannot come back and support the system, they have no commitment to it.
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Well, I wouldn't say no commitment, it's just they are wary of "wasting" effort. I trust many would jump in for old times sake if they thought it would really help.
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@Illysia - what Im saying is that those that left are not coming back to help or they would have already ... time to leave the dead behind and move on. As for the birdseed .. I think that the improvements made to the game's mechanics over time may have cause the playerbase to shift from conversationalist-role-player to powerlevelers and action-role-players.
I tried it out because it was supposed to be a medieval rpg that supported 6 ways of magic, fighting mechanics, and it let you customize your own character. If it was just walk around and chit chat with others in 3d then I would never have bothered trying it. I was one of the few that learned about rp and changed.
m not saying trash the game mechanics and go back to crystal hunting .. but perhaps someone who was around during that generation might have better insight as to what attracted them to the game, how they learned about it, and how long for the community to grow.
Im not suggesting that you change to action rp either :) I said do what you need to do to attract the type of people that support YOUR flavor of rp. Whats the point in having a bad flavor of rp just for the sake of rp ?
@Sarras - piss off you cross-eyed troll :)
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Wasted effort? Its all technically "wasted" effort. I have no expectations. What could I get from this game anyway? Its a game on the internet. It could disappear and it would be like it was never here. Whatever I take away from PlaneShift is only what I can carry with me in IRL. Thats enough. Lets not even mention database wipes. If they cannot come back and put time in like the rest of us, then forget them. All that being said, I am finding the current version to be ... jumpy... but very playable. The only blame I place on lack of RP in game is the loss of the truly excellent fire in the Kada-El. That little nook engendered more roleplay on its own than any players on the system. Its just not the same with the new Kada-El cafeteria down there. And I still can't figure out what the hell the cook is doing on the second floor. Really, the system has gone through many improvements in the last couple of years, give it some time and lets see what happens over the next year.
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@Rigwyn: I dunno, maybe mechanics did cause the shift away from conversation RPs. When there were less things implemented you only had conversations to go with. ;D I really don't know what could have caused it but I wish I did as I could probably figure out what to do about it if I did. ;)
I was one of the few that learned about rp and changed.
Trust me, this is one of the things that keeps me struggling with the matter. I appreciate the change you made very much. :D
Action RP isn't bad it's just that it's rarely thought out enough, kinda like most newbie baddie RPs. The only way to half way win people over on the conversation RP is by doing it and dragging people in. There isn't much else I can do, but having oldbie character would help in that there would be enough well developed characters around to be interesting. Like for intance having someone to bicker with on a constant basis and get in to good arguments with. :P I can kinda do it if I have Zandral and Illysia argue but 1. I run out of things to argue about, 2. it's not fun only RPing with myself. :P
@Verden: The fire is still as effective as it ever was and trust me, the lack of RP is way bigger than a little fire. Most of the time, what RP there is in the tavern is down there. And Jomed has always been up there. ;D
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Yeah, Illysia. You missed my points again. Nevermind.
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Nothing hinges on your believing it, it's fact Sarras. As for the adrenaline rush, if you say so... I do roleplay, but you probably aren't in game enough to see that, why don't you try RPing instead of whining about this thread. ;)
it's not a fact. quit being such a tool. from where did you get that "fact"? from scientists? how good was their experiment? did you get it from some statistics? pfft. and i ain't trolling. i was simply offended by what illysia said.
up until today i couldn't get online because my internet died every five seconds.
also, stop with the giggly emotes. all i'm getting is you're being a pretentious oldbie. the "golden age" is never really golden. you only remember the good parts and forget the bad. if the absent oldbies had commitment, they would still be here. but they're not, are they? it's not just because they don't want to waste time; it's because they lack commitment. btw, just playing this game is a huge waste of time. the only powerful characters are the players who can spend more than 3 hours per day on this game. that's very unproductive.
i think you don't know what action is. it's not just fighting all the time. surprisingly, there's a plot. yes, noobs come up with terrible action roleplays. that doesn't mean all action is bad, however. you see in black and white. i respect that your only interest is drama and chit chat, but keep it to yourself. you don't need to dictate how others roleplay. all you need to do is roleplay.
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@Sarras
1. You can't tell people what to do while telling people not to tell people what to do. It makes you a hypocrite and that's pretentious. ;) Not to mention name calling where there had been none makes you a trouble maker and a jerk... just thought I'd throw that out there. :)
2. I'd find you articles on the effects of stress on the body but you'd likely call the scientists and doctors pretentious people who have no idea what the facts are.
3. You're right, you are not a troll. Trolls usually know that they're wrong and are being pains but do it purposefully, not out of ignorance. ;D
4. I shall continue to use smileys as they are not for you anyway, if you don't like them go be a pain in someone else's thread. :whistling: :-*
5. If oldbies completely lacked commitment, they wouldn't bother to comment on the state of the community. They still feel enough attachment to try to be helpful (whether they succeed or not) to try and provide guidance, they just aren't going to go in game and put in work if people like you are going to come in and be pains and make an already difficult task even harder. :thumbdown:
6. If playing the game is a waste, why are you playing it? ::|
7. I think you as usual were too lazy to read a post bigger than the back of a matchbox and missed the fact that I acknowledged the plots behind action. Try reading more of the thread before lecturing someone dear. ;) It's only effective if you sound like you know what you are talking about.
8. I'll stop "dictating how others roleplay" when you stop trying to take away my right to free speech and converse with others on how to respond to the changes in RP in game. If you wish to join the discussion, feel free. In the meantime the adults are talking. ;)
@Verden: Yeah I probably did miss your point, but if the point you where making is that there isn't some grand problem then I still would disagree.
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I tried it out because it was supposed to be a medieval rpg that supported 6 ways of magic, fighting mechanics, and it let you customize your own character. If it was just walk around and chit chat with others in 3d then I would never have bothered trying it. I was one of the few that learned about rp and changed.
m not saying trash the game mechanics and go back to crystal hunting .. but perhaps someone who was around during that generation might have better insight as to what attracted them to the game, how they learned about it, and how long for the community to grow.
Hmm… what the past was like? If only there was some place that kept a record of all the old role plays and things so we could find out. Oh right, the forums go back at least a good half decade. ;) And for the record, PS promised the same things way back when, I didn't even realize PS was still very much in development and had never RPed in my life... Honestly I just wanted to kill things and make an awesome cat person.
Out of curiosity I looked back at what seemed popular back in the “golden age” (*an ancient crystal hunter character rolls over in their digital grave*) just to see what, if anything, has changed and why.
In no particular order, these are the ones that stand out to me:
Guild wars, Tournaments, Weddings, HAGS (Hide and go seek), Races/Scavenger hunts/ guild quests, Player run stores/Markets, and of course the odd murder plot and purely character based story line.
Guild Wars
Maybe I’m just out of the loop but I can’t recall the last real guild war I’ve seen. Back in my day we had to walk up hill in the snow both ways it seemed like every few months some guild would cross some other guild and all hell would break loose… Even if your character wasn’t involved it at least gave folks something to talk about and would often IC polarize various groups. Also it is important to note that the warring guilds had a healthy respect for each other OOC, something important for a well played out RP guild war scenario.
Example: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=26159.0 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=26159.0)
What Killed It?
I honestly don’t know why these seem to have fallen out of favor especially with “everyone” seeming to want action based RP, can’t get much more action than a war.
Tournaments
These seem to still be around in various incarnations. I can’t say first hand how they compare to ones of the past but even in the “old” days it was a bit hit or miss depending on who was running the event.
What Killed It?
Nothing at all, still alive and kicking.
Weddings
People’s characters do still get hitched, right? I don’t see these turned into events much anymore… but whatever, one less gift to buy.
Example: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23705.0 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23705.0)
What Killed It?
Maybe it has something to do with the divorce rate in Yliakum rising. :P Either way, it was often the well established RPers that turned their character’s wedding into events and if nothing else was a reason to party. Personally I can take or leave this kind of RP but, still interesting to note that it seems to have fallen out of favor with most current players.
HAGS!
Say what you will about HAGS being OOC, IC, whatever… I’ll be the first to admit that 90% of the conversations during a game were done in group and OOC. So if you’re trying to bolster RP why bring up HAGS?! Plain and simple it was a community building exercise. If you played HAGS with someone and they seemed like an okay person, odds are you’d RP with their character if you bumped into them at Kada’s.
Example: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23429.0 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23429.0)
What Killed It?
Long story short: Chat bubbles.
Races, Scavenger Hunts, and Guild Quests
I guess the occasional race still pops up from time to time, not sure about scavenger hunts but I can imagine they’re still out there somewhere but, whatever happened to guilds that created their own quests? Complete with rewards? As I recall there was even a certain Xillix character that had a guild that essentially created their own quest as the way to gaining acceptance into their organization.
Example: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23727.0 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23727.0)
What Killed It?
No idea, maybe you newbs are all just lazy (kidding). Though, I find it more likely that with the abundance of quests in game… people just don’t see the need anymore. Also, it may be difficult to motivate people like before with the prevalence of 300q weapons floating around. Back then a silverweave as a prize offered pretty strong incentive.
Player Run Stores/Markets
I still see these from time to time, as long as people want items I imagine they’ll exist. However, often they just deal in crafted weapons which is rather… boring. Back when looted weapons were the only weapons, there was a pretty amazing variety out there and a dozen merchants could have largely different stocks of goods. Also, most characters seemed to gravitate towards certain magic weapons, collecting rare “Peace” weapons or the like.
What Killed It?
Certainly not dead but, personally I find the variety less then exciting.
Random Other Things:
Harnquist’s as a Hangout
Everyone who was anyone used to be able to be found at Harnquist’s. New players would filter in looking for help and old players would essentially just hangout for some conversation. I can recall times when you’d have a good 8 or 10 people just conversing about things and various goings on in Yliakum. Essentially it was one of the places you could get the “news” about RPs and often get involved in them yourself. Ironically, while many people seem to look back on this now as a good time I can still recall some RPers complaining that no one would hang around Harn’s because of all the acrid smoke.
What Killed It?
Crafting. When the ore zombies moved in, the RPers moved out. Personally I can’t blame the people who are training crafting too much, with the system it’s darn hard to RP and not wreck whatever it is you’re trying to create but, for better or worse, things changed when crafting was introduced.
Random Dueling Parties
What better way to brush up on your fighting skills than get in one giant group and take turns smacking each other senseless? If I recall right, the addition of choosing whether to kill your opponent or not was introduced to make practicing dueling easier. Yet I rarely see anyone grouping up and doing this now of days. For such a self proclaimed action oriented group of players… I find it odd this has fallen so far out of favor.
What Killed It?
Magic? No, this honestly started to fade before that system was overpowered. Change in dueling mechanics? Maybe a bit but, I adapted so it would make sense that any newer players wouldn’t have any problems. I actually can’t come up with one good reason why this doesn’t take place anymore, perhaps some newer players can enlighten me on why they don’t find it appealing?
Hopefully this offered at least a little insight into what PS was like a few years back and maybe even sparks a few ideas. It is by no means a comprehensive list just what I remember and enjoyed.
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1. it's called being an example
2. goes to show you were lying or following false information
3. you're calling me ignorant now? then you're being disingenuous. once again.
4. the smileys are irritating, and i'm sure there's a limit to how many you may use, but continue if it gives you pleasure.
5. commenting is not commitment. if a veteran whines about the current state of affairs in a war, that is not commitment. if he had commitment, he would be out there fighting for his country. capice?
6. i like to waste time. don't you?
7. woman, i am handicapped. i cannot read anything thoroughly. this is why your walls of text piss me off lol.
8. how the hell am i taking away your rights? you don't even have rights on this website, for one. two, i am not preventing you from posting by holding a gun to your head. are you serious?
@marqsaynt, i was in a duelling party just a couple days ago
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I forgot about the weddings! :woot: Maybe that's because I missed so many of them. Yeah, more things got turned into events I guess. As for the Harn thing, yeah no one would realistically hang out there but I'd rather people be less realistic and hang out in large groups than be realistic and sit in silence with each other at the tavern. I remember thinking it was a bad move to run off the RPers from the smithy back when it happened. No other place stepped up to fill that niche. And on the note of HAGS, I guess you are more of an oldbie than me. I never knew about the HAGS. ;D But in my defense, I didn't really interact with other players for like the first two years I played. I had a hard enough time trying not to die from fall damage.... I spent a lot of time in the DR... X-/
Picnics were also way more common. You picked up one of the 5 in game food items and found an empty spot to lay out the ulber fur picnic blankey. Then you talked and waited till some newb ran up behind you and snatched it and the food right from up under you. Ah the memories of fussing and complaining about it. ;D Hmm... I need to go back myself and see what else we used to do that I forgot about.
@Sarra: To put it plainly you're just fussing for fussing sake, please do that somewhere else as I don't feel like getting you some milk and cookies and putting you down for a nap. And to pull out a quote:
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I assure you I am being quite genuine in what I say. I am also being patronizing. if you aren't in a position to actually do something about my talking about RP, I think I'll just ignore you and keep on with my discussion. If it truly bothers you though, feel free to take little gray rain clouds elsewhere.
Added as an afterthought: Even though you are technically trolling my thread, I will, against my inclination, offer one last olive branch before I give up entirely on being nice about this. My wall of text was mean for people in general, not you specifically. If you would contribute something useful to the thread instead of being a pain in the read, I might just go ahead and condense everything down for you. However, I don't go out of my way for pests. Try being a productive contributing member of the discussion.
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if you cannot speak like an adult and can acknowledge that you are being patronising, i don't see a point to discussing anything with you. this is a lost cause. it could be that we come from entirely different backgrounds. i have no clue what you have against me, illysia, but skirting around my points is offending. maybe you're too damn dense. that's what your responses to me and other players show. i think you're just playing ignorance. hence being disingenuous.
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I am also being patronizing.
Your argument, as usual, is invalid. It's not skirting, you skipped it. That being said, since you aren't even going to try to contribute productively, nevermind my offer. Here let me point it out for you since you can't be bothered to try to read a post thoroughly enough.
Added as an afterthought: Even though you are technically trolling my thread, I will, against my inclination, offer one last olive branch before I give up entirely on being nice about this. My wall of text was mean for people in general, not you specifically. If you would contribute something useful to the thread instead of being a pain in the read, I might just go ahead and condense everything down for you. However, I don't go out of my way for pests. Try being a productive contributing member of the discussion.
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do you know what that word means?
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Lacking candor or not being genuine.... Sarras go bug someone else please. The topic has derailed enough. And for the record, the internet is full of dictionaries, even if you use a word I don't know, some people have the good sense to take a few extra minutes to look the word up before posting. Try thinking a minute or two before you post, you might find it a refreshing change. And if you keep trolling here I will just ignore you.
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I'm going to start off my well-structured classic Planeshift forum argument post with the cliche use of "honestly" and "frankly". (Just so you guys know)
Honestly, I cannot begin to...
Frankly, this is complete bul...
Anyway, back on topic for me.
1) The people who taught me role play (Gwinn, Eid, Indygo..err, some other people I cant recall...) used dueling far more than role play fighting from what I remember. Dueling is exciting and adds to the fun of the game. RP fighting is usually scripted whether you realize it or not, and it takes a long damn time for it to finish that it ends up with people ending it quickly (with a bad or unsound ending).
2) I don't have a list of points, crap, then why did I make numbers with parentheses?
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Sarras, don't make me log in as Rigwyn and hunt you down X-/
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Dueling is exciting and adds to the fun of the game. RP fighting is usually scripted whether you realize it or not, and it takes a long damn time for it to finish that it ends up with people ending it quickly (with a bad or unsound ending).
Dueling is nice, it's way more efficient than RP fighting. But I usually can do with out either myself. I don't think people do much of either too much now. Most people seem to just hunt mobs. I don't know, though, if there have been any recent tournaments that I might have missed. I can see the place for both types of fights, but I just think there needs to be a pretty good reason for it... Other than I'm bored let's duel.
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Lacking candor or not being genuine.... Sarras go bug someone else please. The topic has derailed enough. And for the record, the internet is full of dictionaries, even if you use a word I don't know, some people have the good sense to take a few extra minutes to look the word up before posting. Try thinking a minute or two before you post, you might find it a refreshing change. And if you keep trolling here I will just ignore you.
sorry if i wasn't clear, but i meant this:
I am also being patronizing.
i want you to seriously consider what i said instead of ignoring me because i am not an adult. or because i'm not an oldbie. or because whatever. perhaps everything i said flew right over your head. happens often to you, doesn't it?
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i keep trying to auction my guildie garo off so that he can have a nice big wedding ;D but no one has made an offer...anywho someone needs to get married and invite lilura ..kra gives nice wedding gifts! And <3 picnics!!!!!!! illy you should host a community picnic! :D
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Maybe, It's been forever and 3 years since I held a picnic. It might be good to get people out into the open and out of buildings and cities for awhile. :D Maybe a picnic out by the lake near the entrance to gug. People can relax, talk and eat on the shore, then after an hour ;) they can go swimming if they want. Maybe even play some picnic games... Charades anyone? ;D
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i keep trying to auction my guildie garo off so that he can have a nice big wedding ;D but no one has made an offer...anywho someone needs to get married and invite lilura ..kra gives nice wedding gifts! And <3 picnics!!!!!!! illy you should host a community picnic! :D
Whatever happened to your old picnics? Or was there too much violence in your picnic hosting past? :P
*Geoni argues with Lilura in a kind manner*
@Sarras&Illysia: Your getting nowhere.
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Scripted rp fight? I've never seen one before, and the only time rp fights have ever been no fun for me are when your playing with someone new that they really screw it up XD
@lilura, I know a diaboli who might like to purchase garosan ringe XD!
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Your on fire! Some of you, anyway.
Quit mulling over the reasons why people left and think of the reasons why people would come.- Focus on that which you want.▬ Do not target the person, target the topic.▬ If someone misses your reasoning, throw it more carefully or acknowledge that they do not want to catch it.▬ A game may have any total ratio of action and calm but still give any player their own chosen ratio.- Action does not automatically mean violence and destruction.▬ It is true that cool stuff alone does not a story make, but do you want a story that isn't cool?▬ When a story loses characters, it does not die, it transforms.▬ If your art is work, are you having fun?- Art might require work, but it should not be work.▬ The goal of a story is to teach you something; to trap the mind to its own thinking, and through it, grow.
I just now realized the blocking all the smileys might have been counter productive. I am ignoring this realization.
The reason I didn't like one of the role-plays posted was because everything going on was following a script they planned out beforehand; the character being attacked, the attacker, and the defenders all knew about it and agreed to do it. That kind of thing you can do on a forum, and I often do. In a game where you can have exactly defined mechanics allows things to break away from a man-made script. Especially when the game is programmed procedurally (random seeds!), and the complexity is high enough that you can't every be completely sure what will happen.
Such as how in Dwarf Fortress you can be wearing full plate of the strongest, lightest metal and have the highest skills possible, but you can still be killed by that one stray quarrel...or get curb-stomped by children when your knocked down.
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@Nivm: This post is very stream of consciousness and I have no idea what the actual point is or if it's just a bunch or statements tied together. On the subject of mulling why people left, think of it this way: If you have a barrel that you need to store water in but no matter how much water is poured into it, the level drops instead of rises, don't you think it would be a good idea to wonder where the water is going and why? If you figure that out, you may be able to stop the loss and make the efforts to fill the barrel more effective. ;)
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So this community is a barrel and the members water?.. You know it doesn't work that way. Could you try again? For both this and my last post?
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Please enlighten, how does it "not work this way?"
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Alright. When you are working with people instead of inanimate objects, you start needing to consider psychological factors that the physical factors create, making things much more complicated. One major psychological factor is the fact that like attracts like; if a person focuses on what is wrong, it wont be to long until they view the entire topic as something wrong. If a person focuses on what is right, all of it, they can use it to wash away what is wrong...or ignore it and make it worse like your example. The reason I so strongly believe your metaphor does not work here, is because if the people are represented by water, then the water would have a choice whether or not to go out the hole. The water could also rise up and drown the person pouring it in if it wanted. In the case of people, the environment might stress them do something, such as quit the game, but they may not necessarily do so for reasons of their own. The environment also changes for both ill and good depending on how the people act, while a barrel will only be slowly worn away, rotted, or rusted by the water.
The statements in my other post were in response to other arguments in the last page or so of this thread, but I disconnected them so as not to start more fires.
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hah
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weeee, another topic derailed.
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Where?
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Nivm, your last couple posts are massive tangents that make little sense. What in the heck are you talking about kid? I un-rail Akkaido's de-rail and give this thread a chance to make itself back into what it was: asking people if they care.
I care. I care hard. Really hard. So hard it hurts me.
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i got everything nivm said.
he's like that wise old grandpa who sits in a rocking chair and speaks in metaphors.
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Don't you mean the one going through dementia?
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@Nivm: It has been my observation that "psychological factors" and discussions about PS don't mix so well. Every so often someone decides to bring it up but the kinds psychology applied just doesn't seem to affect much here. The only "stresses" that really apply here right now are that many people are either too bored or dissatisfied to be bothered with playing or too frustrated by bugs to be bothered with trying to make the game work. You assume this has been a discussion completely of negatives but not really. It is a discussion of the currently reality in game and ignoring it is in many people's opinions part of why the game is in the state it is in. The point for it is to identify the shift in game, quantify it, and then take measures shore up the community. Just going about things a business as usual is only effective when status quo is maintained. Just try not to over think the topic too much. Sometimes something really is as simple as it sounds.
un-rail Akkaido's de-rail and give this thread a chance to make itself back into what it was: asking people if they care.
I care. I care hard. Really hard. So hard it hurts me.
Thank you bloodedirishman.
I don't mind a little derailing on what has happened in game. I think some useful observations have come out of the derailment. However, I am just going to make the general statement now: If you just came to the thread to tell people to stop whining, leave. If you just came to be a pest and see if you could get people riled up, leave now. >:( If you can't find a way to answer the original question or contribute usefully to the discussion on RP, go away... I'm trying very hard to be patient but I'm only going to tolerate foolishness for so long.
This thread has a purpose and I'm not just going to sit around while some people derail it because they are bored and can't make one click to form their own useless thread to go play in. I have every intention of figuring with out what is going on with RP in game and seeing if anything can be done to revitalize the community.
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Yes I care!
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well, here's the answers, illysia: the roleplay sucks, and you can do nothing about it. is that what you wanted to hear?
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You really are on fire Illysia. If you want me to stop posting here so badly I will.
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I am just going to make the general statement now
If your conscience pokes you then go with that thought. If you aren't here to help then there is no place in this thread for you. If you are genuinely trying to help then fine. But I don't need people in this thread "I'm just saying..." and not helping. I also don't need random statements on the difficulty of the task or just saying nothing will work. If you have something constructive to add go ahead, but don't expect that I will automatically agree.
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well, here's the answers, illysia: the roleplay sucks, and you can do nothing about it. is that what you wanted to hear?
I completely disagree. It may not be everyones idea of a good time, but it certainly is mine! There aren't many things better then kicking back at the Stonehead and having a fun IC conversation about, well anything!
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...i was joking. illysia's being defeatist.
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I tend to like both the sit and chat as well as action/adventure RP. The thing about sit and chat though is that unless your character (and often the person playing it) is interested in the current topic, its hard to follow. I've had times where people that I normally hunt down for some RP have gotten into very personal discussions where my character and myself have been very lost, but IC wouldn't normally leave. I can imagine many wouldn't take the time to sit through it, and all it may take is one convo like that to turn them away. Action/adventure seems to go over better I think because you are involved one way or the other, the consequences of whatever is going on having a direct effect on anyone nearby. The tavern RP seemed to work best as a "wind-down", where chars could discuss what happened and invariably how they were affected. It is much harder to start the RP there, as in real life you don't start your day at the bar, but you may end up there after a day's work to either forget the day or discuss it with friends/co-workers/etc. So there has to be a rise in out of tavern RP before you see the rise of in-tavern RP, because then people will have something to talk about when they get to the bar. As a criminal in Yliakum, the taverns made a great place to interact with other criminals and set up meetings to discuss the next job.
Another issue mentioned is game mechanics and how it affects RP. The issue is, there will probably never be a MMORPG that forgoes extensive game mechanics and dueling in favor of creative a more strictly RP environment with more emphasis on avatar development, at least not in a medieval setting. So like it or not, the game mech is here to stay. And when players work to improve their skills, they are still in the RP environment, which many RPers tend to find distracting. So perhaps a solution to this is a strictly OOC area players can travel/teleport to so that their training and OOC development doesn't conflict with the RP environment. I have seen this done before and while it doesn't eliminate OOC off topic chat entirely, it may solve the "everyone running around Hydlaa Plaza with swords unsheathed" issue.
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It seems that finding a way to balance action character interactions and dialogue character interactions is a bigger problem than game mechanics. If RPers can't even come together on what to RP about, every other problem becomes trivial.
Also, I personally don't mind people grinding every now and again and training, but it does get irritating to be standing in the middle of a city, trying to catch someone to RP with, and getting smooth bypassed at every instance. It happened before mounts too, but since mounts it is even worse as now characters move too fast for you to catch them to draw them into a RP. Sometimes I want a "looking for RP" sign to stand up near my characters. ;D
However, no matter how cliche taverns and tavern RPs are to fantasy settings, it is never the less a staple. And you are right PhoenixRizin, there are a lot of things you can do in a tavern and it can lead to other kinds of RPs as well. However, I believe that a pick up in action RP can lead to more sit down RPs and vis versa. For me, sit down RPs lead to going out to do something and not the other way around. I think just more depends on your preference.
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Sometimes I want a "looking for RP" sign to stand up near my characters. ;D
I'd like a "looking for contact" flag as well, even if it does take away from immersion a bit (then again, so do Rivnaks in the tavern and on top of the table by Harn's and such >>).
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And then we come back to the same problem. "Now what?" What has to be done to nurture the community to a healthy state?
I'm sorry for bumping into this (stayed away from the forums for quite a while, personal reasons), and I know I'm going to sound exactly like Sarras now ;), but... in my nearly 6 months spent in-game and playing hard I have seen Illysia the char only ONCE. It happened near the Plaza. She passed by my char, non-stop, and went away and, honestly, I had absolutely no reason to chase someone my char didn't know IC'ly, so I didn't. Never seen her since.
And every (every !) time I ever tried to find someone to RP with at the Stonehead, it had been empty. A nicely decorated empty place with food and drinks you cannot get. Sure it can be RPed too, but RPing the same place being exactly as empty and useless as the last 12 times before that, it gets boring really soon. Now I hardly ever bother to take the steps up, I just run a quick target-checking while managing my storage, make sure nothing had changed and move on.
So maybe the 'nurturing the community' process should include... well, a wee bit more communication emanating from those who proclaim it. Those of the oldbies who taught me pretty much everything I know about RP atm, they communicated with my feeble and boring noob chars, through action or conversation, or both. And they didn't need pretty decorations or some special status zone to do that. The best I can sum this up is... seeing someone new around, they cared.
On the convo/action subtopic: I care for both and I never made any distinction between the two; then again, my first RP trainer had been Jacula :devil:
One either leads to another or is just 'everyday talks', I believe. Now, maybe the only kind of RP I don't want and don't need and don't care about is exactly that, everyday-talks RP. Waste of time, in my personal opinion. Maybe that's why none of my chars is much of a tavern-goer. All those mass greetings and 'hello A! - hello B!' and 'how have you been' and 'have you seen X lately' and 'how are your wife and kids' and 'sit down, have a drink'... no choices, no consequences... they speak strangely there. I'm not interested in that. I have my RL for this kinda stuff, and if I really liked it, I wouldn't be playing PS in the first place. Not to mention IRL beer tastes better.
Jacula alone used to produce more RP in a day, just by being there, and being open for communication, and having stories (several ones!) to tell with words and action, than a dozen of half-dead OSP zones and zombie-styled calendar events and 'save the world'-type forum threads could ever provide. That's my main point. Sorry for being so harsh about it, that's just the way I feel these days.
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The reason you never see Illysia is because I am only going to hang around and do nothing on that character for so long. So if you think it's boring to sit in that tavern when it's empty what makes you think I want to be there for 5 hours hoping someone comes? And no, sending tells even does not automatically fill the tavern. People get caught up in their own RPs on the way the tavern can still be empty. Also, I am on more often than you probably realize. Look at my sig, I've got several characters and not all of them are even in my sig. And on a side note, if you saw her run off she was probably heading to the hydlaa or gug depending on where you saw her. All of my characters are pretty stationary I don't move them that much. They each have their domains.
As of late, I've been playing on other characters in Kada El's trying to catch RP. Most of the time it is empty. Everyone pretty much runs through hydlaa at some point, if they won't go out of their way to stop in that tavern which is much closer, why would they go out of their way to gug? If I can't ind RP in the hub, I'm not holding out much hope for the outlying areas. Most of the time people concentrate where you can get the most quests completed... Gug is not that place. As I said at the beginning of this thread, why should I waste that much time for nothing? And I can be contacted, people can contact me in and out of game. I talk to people but I only talk to people that want to, I'm not going to bend someones arm to make them communicate with me. I talk to new players and RP with players I've never RPed with before. It takes more than communication. For one it takes a two way respect.
On another note, I RPed with Jacula in both action and conversation. He could go either way, it's called being a decent RPer. ;) The problem is that people have the wrong view of tavern conversation RPs and can't seem to see past their own preferences long enough to realize that not every conversation goes like that. Nobody would do it if there weren't fun conversations, people who prefer conversations don't have a deficiency in fun perception. Honestly, even the conversations I had with Jacula were in the tavern.
If I haven't said it enough Rigwyn, I say again. I appreciate that you got this point even though it's still not your preference. Because apparently this is not an obvious point.
And jacula did produce a lot of RP, but he's gone for now and so far Vakachekh is the only other person to really try to step up with a wide scale action RP idea. Keep in mind that although action RPs get more attention and support. It's generally the convo people that keep everything from going down entirely and it's usually the convo people that keep the door open for action RPs. If you don't believe me, go visit another MMO with dueling, even one with dedicated RP. There is often constant action, but it's a bit slim on the RP side... no convo people reminding them to RP more deeply than /me bashes you in the head. It honestly takes both types of RP.
And on a side note, not directed at anyone in particular(and no not at you Mickra. I have to say this before I have another argument in my thread for no good reason), but I have to go ahead and get this off of my chest. Do the people that prefer action RPs realize that their RPs are not the only valid one? I mean, has it crossed their minds? I hear a lot of talk about how people who prefer to convo RPs should not try and shove it down the throats of people who prefer action RPs, but would it kill action people to show a little respect for the conversations? Just as a courtesy. Respect does not equal liking it.
Obviously not all conversations are interesting or worth it, Even I think some are crap, but people wouldn't keep bring it up if they didn't have fun doing that. You should have a little respect for that, as a lot of you would get on your high horse if a Convo RP person called action RPs crap, especially if happened to be yours. All I'm asking for is a tiny bit of respect. You know good and well you'd be down my throat if I said your RPs were complete crap, take a minute think about the fact that your saying it in connection with convo RPs doesn't not negate the fact that it's rude. Comment on how you dislike it all you like, fine... to each their own, but at this point I'm halfway inclined to start point how action RPs are crap for each person that can't manage a wee bit of courtesy on the matter.
I'm not saying all the people that prefer action RPs are like this, but it is getting a bit tiresome for people to be rude because they are likely same people that will get their righteous ire up if someone did to them.
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think it's boring to sit in that tavern when it's empty what makes you think I want to be there for 5 hours hoping someone comes?
Ditto.
Emphasis added.
And I can be contacted, people can contact me in and out of game. I talk to people but I only talk to people that want to, I'm not going to bend someones arm to make them communicate with me. I talk to new players and RP with players I've never RPed with before. It takes more than communication. For one it takes a two way respect.
Emphasis added.
Ditto again.
And jacula did produce a lot of RP, but he's gone for now ...
Yes. My point exactly.
One excellent player who's 'gone for now' is a major loss to the community. If all OSP sites disappeared overnight, I couldn't care less. I cannot learn any RP, be it action-based or not, from barrels, or chairs, or Oja carpets, however beautiful they are. I cannot roleplay with Lady Peckerly either, and I know that for sure, because I tried many times. In a row.
...and so far Vakachekh is the only other person to really try to step up with a wide scale action RP idea.
...and so far Vakachehk has a lot to learn himself first and 'really try to step up with a wide scale action RP idea' later, or else the idea will fail.
No offense meant.
Keep in mind that although action RPs get more attention and support. It's generally the convo people that keep everything from going down entirely and it's usually the convo people that keep the door open for action RPs.
Everything is going down. We want it back up and thriving. It's what this thread is about, isn't it?
In my personal opinion again, it's all about the general attitude. About players, especially the older ones. They get bored RPing with each other for years, they start seeping away slowly, while still waiting for the younger generation of players (let's say that straight: for the noobs!) to go pay them some OOC respects first and maybe get some bit of RP done later, either with them, or just in their presence. Or maybe not. Or maybe next time, sorry. Or...
It simply does not work this way, and that's why things keep falling apart.
Unless this gruesome attitude is changed, we'll just have more misguided noobs around, more good RPers leaving, and so on. The problem reproduces itself. It's not likely to get solved with some of the 'live legends' returning, unless those legends learn how to reach out to the newer folks. Not with their player-maintained chairs and player-crafted pies, sorry, but with their good RP. Like Jacula and Rigwyn did, like Roled, and Jaycol, and Keella, and Destina, and Vilthis, and Marsuveus, and Eelin, and some other people (too few!!!) keep doing in-game, without setting any conditions on how their hard work must be paid back. They just do it and... I may be wrong but I guess they love it. They see you, they greet you, they start RPing with you, they teach you to RP, you learn from them, you start your own RPs, you involve some newer people in it, and... life goes on.
Hopefully. Fingers crossed.
And on a side note, not directed at anyone in particular(and no not at you Mickra. I have to say this before I have another argument in my thread for no good reason), but I have to go ahead and get this off of my chest. Do the people that prefer action RPs realize that their RPs are not the only valid one?
The answer to your question: yes.
The question to your answer: before you have what, sorry?
I hear a lot of talk about how people who prefer to convo RPs should not try and shove it down the throats of people who prefer action RPs, but would it kill action people to show a little respect for the conversations? Just as a courtesy. Respect does not equal liking it.
This obviously has nothing to do with my message, so... weapon changed. Skipping.
Comment on how you dislike it all you like, fine... to each their own, but at this point I'm halfway inclined to start point how action RPs are crap for each person that can't manage a wee bit of courtesy on the matter.
...or maybe it has, after all?
To make things clear: I believe any RP that doesn't include both conversation and action is, quite literally, lame. It's an one-eyed rat with 2.7 legs and no tail. It deserves neither respect nor courtesy and should get none.
'Everyday talks RP' = poor RP. Not because it is done through conversation, but because the conversation it's done through, it has nothing to do with RP, it doesn't lead to choices being made, to consequences being imposed. It's just OOC niceness and 'having fun'. Mug fights, by the gods... The more people are deceived into believing it is roleplay, the less chance for roleplay to survive.
'Action' doesn't necessarily need to include killing, stealing or even quarreling. It can be moving from town to town, or lecturing, or selling goods IC'ly, or I don't know... mining valuable things out of the ground. As long as it adds to the story, it's action and it's good. Not my thing, yes, but does it matter? It's RP anyway.
As long as it doesn't add to the story, it's crap, even if it only consists of killing and dueling and name-calling. Same goes to some 'wide scale action RP ideas', like having a World War 0 for no reason whatsoever. (No personal offense meant.)
I'm not saying all the people that prefer action RPs are like this, but it is getting a bit tiresome for people to be rude because they are likely same people that will get their righteous ire up if someone did to them.
Likely. Very likely. I believe Nivm said that someplace already, or something very close to that: please do not try to make us believe all these 'fun' smallscale chats, parties and mug fights, beer fests, elaborate greetings and farewells, birthdays and birthday gifts, choices in drinks and dresses, caring about each other's health and kids and spouses in walls of text in Main, admiring each other's mounts, and such, and such, and such IS roleplaying.
It can be part of some superb RP. Or not. But it can't be all of it. Millions of virtual cookies will only make a huge pile of virtual cookies. So sweet and so useless, and rotting so fast, too.
Usually I try to explain that to my non-RP friends who just "want to have some fun, what's wrong with that?" and only care about RP when it gets in their way and makes them angry because it's not all nice and sweet and it takes more than just smiling at anyone around.
Makes me wonder indeed.
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Sorry in advance for the long post but I am trying to really explain some things here. If you don’t have the patience to at least skim to see whether something you wish to call me out on is addressed already, please don’t post as it is getting irritating to have to keep telling people that I’ve already done what they say I should do, getting mad at me when I haven’t actually attacked an idea they hold, or getting on their general high horse. I’m taking the time to write this thoughtfully, please take the time to post thoughtfully.
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Thank you mickra specifically for a thoughtful post that is neither disrespectful nor outright trolling. It means a lot to me. But, I have to disagree with you on a lot of things. This is partially because it was me saying some the same things you say now a year or two ago and after putting my thoughts into action, I found I got no long term results. If you don't believe me, go back a year or two in forum time and look at my posts and my other attempts to rally people to the save RP cause. :'(
OSP sites aren't a problem. The fact that most of the RPers that ran them are gone is however. OSP was a wonderful opportunity but now most of the people behind it, on the PS team and the regular players, are gone. It's largely wallowing in abandon; however, work is being done to salvage the situation. The problem is that the overall RP environment in game is tainted and draining. Truthfully, it has run off most of the RPers that were previously playing, from oldbies all the way to those that had played less than a year.
On a side note, I've seen people RP with Lady Peckerly just fine. Even without GM intervention. ;) You can RP with anything but like RPing with yourself, it grows old fast! And when speaking of Vakachekh, make your "No Offense meant" part bigger because when I said more or less the same things about the idea, I got labeled as a lazy bum that has never done nothing of my own… which is rather silly, but oh well.
About the general attitude amongst oldbies… The old RPers still LOVE RPing with each other and many of them stay in contact with each other. What they get bored of is players that have played for 3 months telling them their RP is wrong, or "it sucks", or being generally disrespectful. Yes some oldbies want extra respect, but only some and that isn't really the problem. The problem is a lack of respect going both ways. Oldbies are people too and could stand a little consideration same as newbies.
Newbs come in about three varieties. 1. Promising (you can work with these, oldbies actually get excited about these players) 2. A pain in the rear (They know too much to get a word of advice in edgewise) and 3. Could go either way. Most oldbies find very few of the first type and get bored or frustrated with trying to help. Often, it is not worth the effort to fight through high minded people that won't listen anyway or people that can't hold still long enough to be told anything.
A lot of olbies have respect for the first kind and will struggle and go out of their way to help them. But, if a newb goes around saying for instance that conversation RPs are unmitigated crap and most of the olbies around are convo people, they aren't going to take the newbs seriously or struggle with them. Oldbies have a fine sense of conservation of energy. If oldbies weren't afraid of running into the second kind of newbs and having the third kind turn into the second kind on them, they’d still be in game helping. Any person can only take abuse or apathy for so long. Considering the “rage against the oldbies” mentality that often develops, that time is very short.
The last great player exodus happened because RPers were sick of PLers and PLers were sick of RPers, so both left to get away from each other. This was bad as it left the game pretty empty afterward. However, this is why many oldbies lurk on the forums, they are waiting for the “all clear” to come back but are too skeptical to come back en masse right now. If a sizeable number came back, you’d find they’d be enthusiastically RPing and would contribute to the community again and I’ll go out on a limb here and say they’d contribute quite a bit. If nothing else, even if they got worn down they could RP with each other, get built back up, and start the fight anew.
On a side note, gee thanks for saying my work at the Stonehead was crap. :P Those player crafted pies and whatnot were doing exactly what you say to do. The Tavern was a consistently calm no pressure environment that anyone could be comfortable RPing in. Part of the reason it was mostly chit chat in there is because it was a starting ground for players too worried about their RPing abilities (some of whom were too scared to RP in general because they felt too much was asked of them). It was a place where people could do what they could without getting read the riot act about the depth of their RP or about the kind of RP (the main idea was getting used to RPing something with confidence).
Many people that were afraid to RP in general came to the Stonehead and RPed. It takes many kinds of outreach to help a community and the Stonehead had its place like any other form of outreach. I just wish people had taken the time to see what it was really about instead of writing it off as boring and useless. Nobody hangs around what’s boring in a game just to be there unless there is some prestige involved. Many people were there because they had fun there and their experiences are valid too. I know I don’t have a ton of people rushing to praise the Stonehead here, but it wasn’t crap. I can tell you that much for a fact. It was just unfortunately too far out of the way for most people to bother after awhile.
I tried the greeting, RPing, and teaching part…(and still do to the extent that people let me). It’s just that most of the people I helped are now no longer playing for whatever their personal reasons are. And that’s not to mention all the other players that did the same, especially those stepping up to run or help run the play run areas which you are a bit quick to write off. Give oldbies some credit in that not all are uptight pains in the rear. Some tried but there is just no evidence left of their work now.
At the rate it is going, there will be nothing left of the work done by the people you mention in a year or two either. I’ve RPed and had all sorts of interesting interactions with the newer folks, but I don’t have people to come and tell everybody that demands my credentials that they personally had fun with my characters. Sorry… We do what we can, but just because we don’t have people constantly saying our names it doesn’t mean we didn’t do anything helpful. Especially since we aren’t usually looking for praise, you might not ever hear about the things we did.
Basically Mickra, I made all these same arguments you made and I put them into practice. I was being the change I wanted to see. You know what I have to show for my time and effort? I got people telling me to do what I’ve done, telling me my RPs were worthless although some people that actually participated in them had fun, and people telling me to basically shut up. (which sorta gets in the way of helping people) What should I do? Bend peoples’ arms and fight them to make them let me help them? No.
That kind of stuff is EXACTLY why you don’t see more oldbies helping like you say. They are tired, and they don’t want to have what has happened to me happen to them any more (because many have already paid their dues on this battlefield). They are truly tired. This is a wearying and thankless battle and people give up fighting actively after awhile. Maybe if newbs tried to be considerate and oldbies tried to be considerate, you might see those interactions between the two more often and some positive change.
Mickra: The question to your answer: before you have what, sorry?
Sorry I don’t understand your question, could you restate it? (Goodness, now I’m turning into an NPC. I wonder how long it will be before this is an obscure inside joke?)
Part of the problem of the “action vs everyday talk” battle is that everyone defines it differently. What a lot of us are calling everyday talk, you are calling action but your definition of action is different from most of the supporters of action RPs. Let me give you an example, by strict definition Illysia’s main RP at the tavern would be everyday chat. However, even though she does the meet and greet thing, it serves to move a greater story, which by your definition is action. Illy served as more of a truly interactive NPC and was there to help people develop their characters by giving them a safe place to do so and giving them a reason to do so. ( I learned first hand that having someone ask you your back story will make you jump to in developing one if you haven’t already done so.)
Yes, she said “Hi” and served breakfast, but even that served to develop her own story. Getting asked to run her own tavern in recognition of her ability to cook and take care of people by the Vigesimi of Gug was a step up for her. Before that, she cooked and mothered people on the side, but being service oriented was always a part if her character make up. Then, she had a place to take care of a wide variety of people, which was fulfilling to her.
I know many people won’t have any respect for that stuff, but it is a part of a story and one that some people didn’t mind partaking in. For instance, many people came to work under Illysia at the tavern in various jobs and had fun. Sometimes funny, and interesting RPs came of working or visiting the Stonehead, stuff that becomes a part of the memorable events of a character’s history. Like when the guards had to remove unruly patrons, which was RPed by the way. As far as I know, these were the first player guards that were halfway sanctioned. Or like when NPCs like Jayose, Allelia, or Malco came by and interacted with the people in the tavern at the time. (I rather miss Malco in fact. :( ) Players got to interact with the NPCs as characters and not a Quest Brick Wall for once… NPCs that in the past mostly stood there asking the player to please repeat themselves more clearly.
When I set the tavern up, I envisioned it as a place where RP was easy and non threatening (So that more people would partake of it). A place where players and GMs could actually RP in the same setting without it being a GM event, where old and new players could chill with each other and set the foundation for other RPs, and where people would come back to see who stopped in or be greeted by someone happy to see them. It was very successful in the beginning before I had to put it on the back burner for school, but now you wouldn’t know it. Maybe if you look at the Stonehead forum, you’ll get some sense of it how much more involved people were but now… *shrugs* Since soo many people left, new people have little idea of what it was like and about the same amount even care. The community’s tastes have drastically changed.
True this kind of RP can’t make up the entirety of RP, but it’s getting pushed out completely and just coming up with half a reason to duel, rob, or have a NC-18 RP can’t be the entirety either. I guess what it boils down to is what I had hoped to come of the collective sum of my recent threads: People need to learn to respect each other as intelligent beings with valid preferences and come together to mend the community and find a plausible solution for restoring the RPing atmosphere.
As it stands though, there’s too much backbiting going on between RPers to come to any kind of useful solution right now. If we RPers can’t get ourselves together, what can be done about the community and the RP environment?
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Talad must care, he came ingame and had a pleasant RP with whoever spotted his character.
Was alot of fun.
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Illysia, it seems we have more agreement than disagreement about things. We tend to phrase it differently and are most likely viewing it from two different standpoints. You, from your oldbie one. Me, from my noob one. We see the same things happening, though. Mostly.
The last great player exodus happened because RPers were sick of PLers and PLers were sick of RPers, so both left to get away from each other.
No. As had been stated many times by many RP oldbies who left: PLers are not a problem, not even a part of it, as long as they just PL all they want and keep silent about it in Main. Or talk it amongst themselves in their guildchats or /tells or whatever. There are enough maps and mobs and ore and game mechanics for everyone to enjoy. Honest PLers are nothing else but some advanced kind of NPCs (they can occasionally greet someone!), but that's about all. Compared with any NPC you name, they have more sophisticated paths and a slightly improved AI. (I still prefer Oja carpets, if you ask me ; ).
Once they attempt to "roleplay" with other people or run their own events on Skylab, it's not a problem either. It's a disaster, period. But at this point it's not about PLing any more, it's about bad RP which is already prohibited by rules... with no one to actually enforce these, our GMs being too busy chasing mining bots all around the place. Lips sealed.
Once they involve noobs into that, it's a major disaster, full speed ahead. That's how we get misguided and disoriented half-noobs attempting to RP with someone near Harn while standing (literally, at times!) on that someone's toes with weapons equipped in both hands. They are probably told IC'ly, by other players, that what they do isn't right, they go to their PL/OOC buddy next and get lectured on how real RP must be done through raising stats/skill numbers and 'RP elitists' being nuts. They go with that... and leave the game soon anyway, just because other games are more kewl and have more awsom grafiks and don't lag that bad. I'd say good riddance, were it not for the simple fact that I'm still a noob too, and I remember only too well how wonderful does it feel to have your first weapon equipped. Near Harn ::)
The rest of us normal noob people is most likely to keep being ignored by experienced RPers, and the best part of your message deals exactly with that. You mature folks don't have to bear with all sorts of crap you're talking about. Sure. So you keep your RP to yourselves while your OSP thingies die a very slow and painful death. You say we noobs aren't interested, and supportive, and respectful enough, so it's all our fault. After that, you leave, for now or for ever.
Those other folks I've named earlier don't have to bear with all the crap either. They do though. I honestly have no idea why. Maybe they're nuts indeed. Or maybe they just love RPing for its own sake, again, or... wait, maybe they just aren't mature enough to have adopted that IDC attitude? Let's be optimistic though, they'll have it developed in another year or two, provided we still have the game alive and running by then. Place your bets, ladies and gentlemen?
And, of course, I don't mean "Illysia is to be blamed for what's going on" while typing the "you" word in. I'm not blaming Rigwyn or Marqsaynt either. I'm not even blaming the GM team, oops !
It's not about blame, it's about things that must be changed first. From both, or more, sides of the... whatever you call it. Unless it's changed somehow, I personally don't care what happens to the Stonehead, or the RCD, or the Outpost. Alone, I have no use for it anyways.
Edit: typos.
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Roleplay mechanics require some sort of moderator or storyteller to enforce a ruleset and a story on a number of players. Those sorts of games are not new, and have existed since Empire of the Petal Throne. In PlaneShift, it is all arbitrary. Players do it however they want, in whatever way they want, everything is arbitrary. This leads exactly to the sorts of problems that plague the roleplay community in PlaneShift. I'll always maintain that PlaneShift is not a roleplay game, it is rather a game that asks you to roleplay your characters. I tend to think that Talad simply envisioned a game where players would act in character to enhance the immersion of other players. It is possible that a combination of GM powers and instancing may bring about actual roleplay mechanics in PlaneShift, in the future. Until then, there is very little to do about it except stay in game and keep roleplaying. Voluminous expository compositions about why this or that problem is killing the community, ad nauseam, on the forum do nothing to promote roleplay in game.
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As I said, the great player player exodus happened because of RPer/PLer tensions. I never commented on whether PLers were the problem but that tension between the two groups was most definitely a large factor in player loss. Trust me, there is nothing you can tell me in the defense of PLers that I haven't said already to the oldbies of my time. Again, if you don't believe me, go back about 2 or so years and look at all the heated debate. Eventually both groups got tired of that foolishness and left.
However, you often cite oldbies ignoring newbs but have you stopped to consider that part of the problem is newbs ignoring oldbies? Often newbs tell oldbies "you have to do this and this and that to help us." and then sit on their rears waiting for someone else to do all the work. It good for oldbies to help but keep in mind that technically newbies are capable of building the community up by themselves as that's what the first players of the game did. Newbs do RP, but more of them need step up and take some more initiative.
I know that some newbs were not only capable RPers before they enter the game, but are capable of organizing their own RPs too. Part of the reason oldbies are quick to blow off newbs is that it sounds like the newbs are being demanding without even committing to contribute to the effort themselves. It would help greatly if newbs would ask oldbies for help in running their own initiatives instead of sitting around for some oldbie to set up an event to keep them entertained.
Oldbies do have to bear a lot of crap just to be helpful. The only way to insure you don't have to tolerate crap is to leave. Look around for the oldbies... See how they are gone? ;) Some players give crap like some sort of "thank you for visiting" gift. It's not a simple matter of just refusing to acknowledge it. You keep hearing what sounds like "Do for me because I'm bored, but too lazy to start up the kind of RP I want to be in," and "Stupid oldbies don't know what they're talking about," your resolved to even bother gets weaker and weaker. Like I said, oldbies are people too and if doing all the work doesn't sound appealing to newbs, it won't somehow make an oldbie's life fulfilled either.
In the past, oldbies could be blamed for running off some newbs but there aren't enough oldbies around to claim that any more. Players leave because PS's only golden aspect is its RP, everything else has better counterparts in other games. Were the community not fractured (and that's not just because of the player generation divide) then people wouldn't leave so much as there would be something to come in to, to be a part of.
I know people think that long posts on the forum do nothing, but have you actually stopped to think of what the actual purpose of it is? These long posts are here to promote understanding among the community and get everyone on the same page by presenting multiple sides of a discussion. I'm sorry it's boring to read but hey, you can't plan a great work with a small sketch. Part of the reason for constant deterioration is that people don't want to admit that it will take more than simply RPing on a regular basis to get things back in good shape. It will take a lot of hard work and planning. People never stopped RPing entirely but look around, things are still getting worse. Sitting on your rear in the tavern talking, going out and robbing people, or hunting in the wilderness doesn't cut it... otherwise things wouldn't have deterioration to begin with.
What is needed is planning and concerted effort, but a lot of people just want to pretend that letting things work themselves out will do some good. Sorry but that is a higher order of fantasy than even PS deals with. The community will have to work and work hard to affect change. If everybody is sitting back waiting for someone else to do the work or are too lazy to jump in the fray and get working because things will somehow work out, then nothing will ever change for the better. Problems are fixed by a logical process which involves identifying the problem then applying a solution that actually changes the current condition of the problem. Haphazardly trying the same thing over and over again does no good, and never has.
So I will ask this explicitly, Will those of the community still willing to work for it help me in implementing a WORKING solution and not just ramming a square peg into the circle slot for all eternity?
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Long forum posts do nothing because most of the people you are trying to reach aren't reading them. Period.
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And if you are in game RPing but always with the same one or two people, it does nothing for the community. Period. ;)
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It does more than posting on this forum does. Nothing is going to get better for you until player numbers come up.
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Verden... have you been following the discussion(regardless of whether or not you read my whole posts)? That would be the point, player numbers won't come back on their own. :P Many players would come back and play if they didn't have client issues and many would come back if there was a vital RP community.
Why step over old players in favor of new ones if the old ones would considering coming back? The whole point of my efforts is to revitalize the community enough to encourage more older players to return and higher new player retention.
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You keep saying that they will but I don't believe it. In order to RP, the client has to do very little. All you need to be able to do is login and be present in game. Is that really hard? I can get logged in with any distro of PS that I choose, on any computer at my home or my office. Textures may be at minimum, and the game world can be choppy but roleplay can still be performed with it. This is also ignoring the fact that a great many players/devs left for reasons that have nothing to do with the state of the client or the state of RP in game. Like it or not, you need new players.
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I've talked to them, I know they will come back. They just won't come back to this. And yes it is that hard to get in game. In other MMOs, you never have to do your own fixes, the devs make sure that everything is done for you because they have a paycheck riding on it. Since PS is not funded or anything we have to do some of the work ourselves.
I had to try updating several times just to get my own client working and at first I didn't think it would. Even now I get crashed out of the game or lagged out constantly, client bugs have always been a big hindrance. That's why the devs get on those bugs fast. I don't know what you use at home, Linux I think but especially windows users have a much harder time getting the new clients to work. It's just the nature of the beast.
Also, It's not ignoring the fact that many left, it's focusing on those we can get back and those we can encourage to stay with us.
The whole point of my efforts is to revitalize the community enough to encourage ... higher new player retention.
See that part... see it? I know we need new players but we get new players all the time. What we need is something to keep them here. It's getting to the point where people are often quitting after a few months. That's why the community needs to be healthy for.
I can understand if you truly don't feel this helps, but it doesn't hurt either. Just coming here and basically demoralizing the effort can hurt though. I can't reach everybody but I don't need to. I only need to reach some people and get something going.
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Oh you've talked to them? All of them? C'mon, Illysia. Give me a break. And client bugs... have also always been there. They were always there when RP was cruising along in PlaneShift. I run PlaneShift on Macintosh usually, Windows often, and infrequently on Ubuntu. The client is in the best shape it has ever been. It is people's lack of commitment to the project that keeps them from being around, the software is not that unworkable. Especially if what you want to do is RP.
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To summarize:
Newbies can't RP >o)
Olbies don't RP 8)
Who is RPing? :detective:
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@Verden: Ok fine Verden. I'm through trying to explain this to you. You already know too much for me to convince you of anything. ::) But I will say this that if you aren't here to help with trying this method then why are you here? Saying RP more is about the equivalent of telling hungry people to eat well. Unless a system for getting them fed is developed those people could well starve even though there is food out there somewhere. As for commitment, some people have lives and don't want to spend hours upon hours fighting technical issues. ;) This is just a game when all is said and done, not a spouse.
@Everyone else: I'd like to actually get together to figure out why the RP atmosphere is so dull. It can't be n00bz running around as they left a long time ago, and it's not entirely bad RP as there isn't nearly as much floating around these days, but something does make it rather difficult to get wider scale RPs going in game. I have no idea but I'm open to suggestions.
@Socius: ;D RP phantoms apparently.
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@Everyone else: I'd like to actually get together to figure out why the RP atmosphere is so dull. It can't be n00bz running around as they left a long time ago, and it's not entirely bad RP as there isn't nearly as much floating around these days, but something does make it rather difficult to get wider scale RPs going in game. I have no idea but I'm open to suggestions.
RP atmosphere is so dull because we do not have communication. I mean just look at Channel. Everytime there is a feature on, people go on channle and say - did you find this? oh where did you find that? Where do you look for this quest?. If not they usually find it themselves.
I mean do it with someone and Roleplay while doing it. What would happen? Will you get attacked by an ulbernaut? Hunt while you get there? set up a camp for a night? Find a rare item? Break a leg?. There are many possible ways of happening. What we need is encouragement.
And another thing is: Don't forget about other guilds. If the guild is really Yliakum based, it should not find a hard time coping with other people or guild. Im pretty sure you can send them a tell. Tell that you are wanting a baddie for your roleplay and they will come.Or if you are a Baddie, do not wait for the "good guys". Send them a tell too. Tell something like "Hey we want to be attacked tonight, Can you send 5 of your troops?" - While saying this, mention the outcome too. "We will have a huge fight but then you get to escape" or "You will beat us, we will have to resume our roleplay the next day [In Game] because we are too tired and have too many injured". If it comes with capturing the other's guys and engaging a war, it would need more negotiation.
I think the Alliances in SkyLab is also dull. Not to be pointing fingers. All the ones that I have seen are "we are all good guys, we should make an alliance together and kill the bad guys" or "We are all enkis, let us work together!" Alliance is supposed to be negotiation. What benefit will one gain? What will one lose? What resources needs to be shared? I mean for the all race guild, they could make an alliance to each other. say an all klyros guild to an all enkidukai guild. One guild is good in fighting [warrior based] and the other one is good in magic. They could benefit from each other through combat.
The guild will also need to be more flavourful. Who are their enemies? Do they have a "rival" guild that competes their resources? Is it those guilds that attacked them? I mean I am sick and tired of these conversations about "you killed one of my guildie, let us go to war." Add some spice to it. Continue the roleplay. Do not end it in a snap [by engaging in a war]. Will one guild try to attack back? Will they retreat? Will they leave them alone?
Long ago, these guilds have promotion ceremonies, awards to their guildies, guild meetings. And they do it in game as well, not in a flunky guild chat tab. Now, there are competitions and stuff like that. I mean it is a good thing. Do not get me wrong. I think though that we need to add spice on the competitions too. I like the idea of the Enki Festival with shops for example. I mean it adds to the lag [don't get me wrong.] but this is one step up. But there are other options - Will there be a lottery or gambling? [of course not allowed in arena], will there be a ceremony to the winner of the competition? Will it get canceled because of a group of ulbernauts? A group of thugs? [You could always contact a GM with this or a thief guild]. I think If you combine these two, I think the roleplay will rise.
I have many more, these are the basics
EDIT: I also want to add that when it comes to competition. Do also roleplay. If you get a ticket for that, roleplay but do not have a flavourless RP:
Seller: want a ticket?
Buyer: sure
Seller: Have a nice day.
BORING!
YOu can do better than that. If other players see other players in engaging in a more flavourful conversation like saying how are you. then saying how much for a ticket. then maybe arguing that it is too expensive to you, that would be a one step up. For the one organizing the tournies - how about a stand in hydlaa? This would improve everything as well.
I was approached a while ago in channel saying that I should join their group in the tournies. I said I do not want to unless approached in character - this is what you need to do too. Not just some OOC "hey do you want to join my group for the competition?"
I am noticing now that we are not even roleplaying. A simple conversation in the tavern is not Roleplaying. It needs to contribute to the communitu in order for it to be a roleplay. The tournies will not be RP if people keep signing up OOCly and making a group in OOC. [I am not saying that the festival is bad. it is not the festival it is the people that are joining the tournament. but I also think that the ones managing it could encourage other people to roleplay more
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Amazingly enough, Illysia just answered her own questions.
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Do you mean what gets said in the gossip channel? I'm not sure what goes on there as I turned that off quite a bit ago. I can get random chatter in IRC; I don't need it clogging my logs in game too. XD
People have in fact gotten out of the habit of communicating with each other. You can easily have 5 people in Kada's and not a word said between them. I know part of it is that people don't they will have enough fun to merit going out of their way. But I've found all sorts of interesting characters but just starting to converse with other characters just for the heck of it.
I agree that good characters often get played very flatly. I think people need to define "good" for their characters more specifically, so their characters have have a definite set of ideals rather than a hunt "evil" mentality.
Normally I'd be against OOCly arranging to do an RP but since we are working from the bottom up again I guess it's a good place to start for some people. I might start hanging out in the Stonehead more, even when it's empty to provide an RP starter ground again. Maybe if enough people start stretching out a little more, it will get easier to convince more to do so... not a guarantee but worth a shot.
Guilds are a toughie as you need enough active people to do anything. But maybe guilds will get more in depth when more people start hanging around.
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Everytime I write a response for this it changes. So i am going to stick with this one.It has nothing to do with how anyone RP's . It only offers my insight on how it could be reestablished under the current gameplay conditions. As well as intertwining into other events and RP's and allow it to work within the purpose with what I understand it was intended for.This example will also apply to any other type of Rp or event that you can think of
I care Illysia---I really do
And as always I will come by in one form or the other to offer some support when I can.
OSP areas are not dead. The Outpost is still operational and doing well last I looked. Whose event I plan on attending here in a few weeks.
I always liked stopping at the Stonehead but I always thought that 24/7 was always to wide of a gap to fill then and even more so now.
I would suggest certain days with certain hours,M,W,F 0000-0000. A certain day with certain hours, F 0000-0000. Offer a special menu for that day, and/or add an occasional special event. Cooking classes for an example.
No, it doesn't cater everyone. It will keep it within a workable form as it grows. As many have said it is a game not a job keep it within the prospective of entertainment. For both the staff and the participants.
I had worked with you and the staff there and with those of the RCD. I watched both areas struggle as they tried to keep them open and staffed as much as possible. As much as everyone wanted to make them work in that fashion. At times they became as Overtherainbow mentioned. "It felt like a bunch of people forcing themselves to be there and trying to hard to make it work." Because they really wanted it to work. And it did at times. Just not all of the time.
The Stonehead did have a loyal following on certain days and hours. Which is why I think it is worth looking into and restructuring the effort that went into it.
I know this isn't what you wanted or intended, I do think it is the best course to salvage the efforts that you and all the others put into it.
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Another suggestion is that the resources of the Stonehead can be used in such a manner to do as many of you are asking here
Lets start from scratch if you will
There are two events coming up that could use the services that the Stonehead staff have to offer. One in Oja and one at the Outpost.
Suppose cooking classes could be offered using the resources of the Stonehead. In order to build some interest in cooking and staffing the events. The first one is in a week the other the following weekend so it would have to be soon. As far as the Oja event fee that can be taken care of.
So meals can be prepared there and help can be asked to gather to help in the transport of the food items to Oja. Not the staff only but other players.
The reason I say that is that it is building a RP event for the event in Oja/Outpost. So you might need guards you might not. Probably that you will just for the safty of the trip. In Oja the staff could set up in at Brados or out in the Plaza behind. I am more then sure satisfactory arrangements can be made with KIC on this. And the service of a meal can be provided for those that do not fight or those that are tired of shopping and need to rest for a moment.
This approach would take the service of the Stonehead to a different level of play as it offers support towards other events in a fashion that still operates as it was intended to. Other then just showing up with the food, but actually catering their own little event at the events.
That will give Illysia a chance to get out a be shocked at the ruthlessness of the fighting and the fighters a chance to join in some quiet conversation if either party chooses to. basically saying it would provide support for one while being supported by the other.
This is not a new approach and has been done before in one manner or another. It does work. It promotes your interests by support another' s. It introduces what you are doing to players that may have otherwise not bothered to stop and see what you are doing. It offers the opportunity to exchange backgrounds and stories, etc.
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As far as you not wanting to sit around in a tavern or run the wilderness in a hunt, or join in a tournament doesn't really matter. Support of these events or RP events can be offered by promoting them IC in a conversation. That won't effect your type of RP or your style of RP. But it does help out someone else whether you can or will participate or not. A simple thing like a few sentences of text in a crowd goes a long way in the support of a event/RP.
The RP argument I am not even going to get into. That comes from what is provided to feed it with enough interest to allow it to grow. Whether it is conversation or an event.
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Do you mean what gets said in the gossip channel? I'm not sure what goes on there as I turned that off quite a bit ago. I can get random chatter in IRC; I don't need it clogging my logs in game too. XD
Yes exactly. But this channel is supposed to be for RP purpose like asking if there is anybody out there interested in joining an RP. Then qualifications would be that you need to be a bad guy and such. Maybe you could use tell but there are many RPers that you do not know that existed so you end up RPing with your friends all over and over an over [do I need more overs?] again
I agree that good characters often get played very flatly. I think people need to define "good" for their characters more specifically, so their characters have have a definite set of ideals rather than a hunt "evil" mentality.
:thumbup:
yes the world is just not about "Good vs Evil" In some cases, these two alignment sometimes join forces and sometimes one alignment get in a havoc like civil war for instance. "Good vs Evil" appears everywhere, we do not need another one of these. There needs to be good in order for the evil to exist and vice versa. Remember the cliché - Light cannot exist without darkness?
Normally I'd be against OOCly arranging to do an RP but since we are working from the bottom up again I guess it's a good place to start for some people. I might start hanging out in the Stonehead more, even when it's empty to provide an RP starter ground again. Maybe if enough people start stretching out a little more, it will get easier to convince more to do so... not a guarantee but worth a shot.
I disagree but I get and respect your point
[quote author=Illysia link=topic=37311.msg426996#msg426996 date=1276386991
Guilds are a toughie as you need enough active people to do anything. But maybe guilds will get more in depth when more people start hanging around.
[/quote]
Yep. Now, I think I am actually wanting a wipe. :innocent:
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Alright, I will basically sum up why I am here. Old players are gone. I don't care what their excuses are, they have more compelling things to do with their time than try to roleplay in PS. We need new players. We have to retain new players. A more conciliatory approach to RP has to come into play. You have to be willing to allow for imperfect approaches and casual, conversation-based RP. If you do not, the players will not play with you. It is not the software, it is the approach. The players cannot walk before they can crawl. They will be focusing on playing the game and must be enticed into RP. You can only do that with positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement is the only approach that will ever work. If every personal interaction on the system must hit the bar of contributing to the community, then you have limited the field to a damn small amount of the people that will be trying PS for the first time, or still new to the community. Or still new to the concept of High RP. That is. Thats all I am trying to say. Don't blame the software. And now I will go back to my troll cave. Where, apparently, I like to sit around by myself and bite the heads off of innocent Kikiri. Drama should also be kept to RP, but I didn't say that.
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This thread is still going?
I don't care. Why is anyone's opinion other than mine relevant?
Silly, silly people.
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There are two rps in the works that we hope to stage at the Stonehead. These are both part of the long form improv player-led rp, in the other thread
{now if I could just figure out how to make a link to that thread ...}
First be on the look out for parties. There are two engagement parties that I am aware of that hope to use the services of the Stonehead. Folks who'd like to be involved as 'staff' and entertainers are welcome, guests will be invited, all are welcome, crashers can come by for the food and dancing girls, :-X surprises may well happen...
Second, there are a couple of Guild meetings coming up that would be great to hold in the Stonehead. One of those meetings I KNOW will involve many a pie, because RR is organizing it.
Keep on the lookout for ways your character can connect with upcoming events. Or start some on your {plural} own!
The welcome sign is posted.
Yers,
Roled Rolak
Party Planner...
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Believe me, Roled's plotlines are gonna be more than just parties and meetings, if all goes according to plan... :devil: :-X
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This thread kept me captivated for a couple of hours! It has been the most captivating thread for me on my 2 or 3 days of pouring over the forum.
My status is such a n00b that my PlaneShift character can only be found in the notes.txt file where its family history, alignment and age have been rolled up. Yet this thread touched me very deeply because the topics paralleled experiences of mine in other game communities over the years.
Games and their communities have ebbs and flows. It can be painful if you allow your gaze to focus on the past. My arrival on this forum is my gazing to the future. Such communities can rebound. One cannot force it; yet if you build it right they will come.
There is no question that software growing pains can affect the player base. This must be one major factor with PlaneShift at the moment. Even having worked as a paid programmer; getting things ready for game entry has not been easy for me. Yet once the source code was on my hard drive it became clear how much work has been done on this wonderful project . It is not some bug ridden creation; but a vast project ready to have its wrinkles ironed out; to emerge ready for true Beta Status.
My feeling is that the nuts and bolts of this world; the engine; is about to reach a very stable point. This will give the dev team a chance to iron out the bumps for the non-techies to have a hassle free experience to get into PlaneShift. If my assumptions are correct then prepare for the player base to grow rapidly.
It is a far thinking dev team to already be ready with two servers. One dedicated to RP and one not. This will work well to avoid future fractures in the community; for with the growing player base expect hackers and slashers that have no idea, let alone concern, for RP. My guess is that the GMs will point them to the proper server and life shall calmly move on.
If there is anything which can be offered to you by me at this point, it is my optimism for this project. To me it is at its true beginning; although you Alpha Testers may think its better days are past. :D
Illysia, even this lowly n00b cares!
- Nova :beta:
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Believe me, Roled's plotlines are gonna be more than just parties and meetings, if all goes according to plan... :devil: :-X
The bachelorette party that the Daughters of Xiosia is throwing won't need to be any more than "just" a party. O--)
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putting in my 2 cents:
i discovered PS back when it was Atomic Blue, i explored a little bit, tried out what was available at the time, then after a few days i uninstalled it. however i never deleted the bookmark for the website :)
over the years i came back to see if anything changed, molecular blue, crystal blue, i think i missed steel blue though, for the most part it was the same deal, poke around and explore for a bit, then move on to some other game, might have been more to do with my ADD but anyway...
back in early march of this year i checked the website again, 0.5.2.1 was recently released so again i wanted to see what was new. quite a bit had changed since the last time i had been in Yliakum, it felt like the game was really starting to grow, and i actually wanted to see how it would evolve instead of just peeking in for a couple days then leaving for months to a year.
there's the arguement of conversation RP vs action RP but there should be attempts made to balance the two, the irka festival is starting in a few hours and the idea of a combat tournement alongside a market is a good chance to blend both aspects of RP. there was an incident in gug where a menki poisoned one character and paralized another and the stonehead became a makeshift clinic to take care of the victims, that also made for some interesting RP and character development.
eventhough players prefer one RP style over another, there should still be some support from the other style, a character who's out fighting needs to rest and possibly recover from being wounded or some such thing, as such a character who spends alot of time in the mines/at the forge may need to defend themselves from criminals/wild beasts (yes i know the NPC beasts/rogues/etc don't attack but there's nothing stopping anyone from RPing that those ulbernauts attacked someone who was out mining).
as for generating player interest in RPing at the stonehead, it's going to be tough due to gug's location mainly, as it is theres more to do between hydlaa, ojaveda and bronze doors fortress and gug is tucked off to the side, plus ojaveda has essentially doubled in size with this latest game update so there's going to be a shift towards there for a while and it's understandable, new content has that effect on everyone, and it may be that to get interest turned back towards gug would be to have a future update expand that area, personally i've explored the gug map and can see there can be more to it, half the visible map is blocked by an invisible wall, maybe there could be a series of mines placed out there that have been overun by beasts, maybe there could be new platinum deposit discovered in them, doesn't actually have to be on the same map as gug but set up as such that people would have to pass by gug on their way to and from the new area and thus have an excuse to stop by the tavern for RP.
also for the idea of taverns, the most common use for them is gathering information and finding people to join up with for quests and such, that could certainly be another way to blend action RP with conversational RP as characters can go there looking for help.
then again, the game doesn't need to have alot of fancy stuff to give players an excuse to RP, we can just as easily take whats available and make up the rest as we go, then when new stuff does come out, assimilate that into the rp as either newly discovered, or in the case of dsar kore, having the quarantine lifted on that section of ojaveda.