PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: bloodedIrishman on September 22, 2010, 07:54:27 am
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Lurker Trolls: n., Forum users who have quit the game and haunt the forum to basically sh*t on the game and the people who work on it as much as they can.
1. A common definer: they are repeatedly banned yet return.
2. Common summarized sayings of Lurker Trolls: "I don't care about this game anymore." Yet they return. Again. And again. Aaaaaand again.
Lurker Trolls, you are only here to feed your stupid hate. I have had enough of you and do not see why any of us (who don't belong to the afore definition) have to put up with you.
All ye who subsist as malice-creatures; Lurker Trolls with little to do but belittle, spread falsehood, and ruin another's day - flee, flee I say. You are not wanted.
Begone. 'cus Noyone likes you. ;D
Brought to you by Irishman & co.
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I have been called both a lurker and a troll in my time here... as well as a peanut (which hurt the most).
I feel in no way bound by the above compulsion.
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What about people who act as if they have left the game in rage because their RP didn't work and now post meaningless sh't or flames from time to time, but secretly keep playing with an alt and really enjoy it? Not that I would know any of that kind, just a hypothetical question.
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Hey! We need them! what's the purpose of this forum anyway? Trying to solve problems and raising interesting questions in a ever changing unusual game? naah! :P
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Trying to solve problems and raising interesting questions in a ever changing unusual game?
questions in a ever changing
a ever
You mispeled that.
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/me slaps derula for being a "grammar n.z.", and mis-spelling "mispeled".
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Ha! Oldest trolling trick in the world still works!
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Dear BloodedIrishman,
My name is Geoni. I am a forum lurker. There is nothing you can do to stop me!
Sincerely,
Geoni
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Trying to solve problems and raising interesting questions in a ever changing unusual game?
questions in a ever changing
a ever
You mispeled that.
You misspelled misspell. ;D
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Ha! Oldest trolling trick in the world still works!
And it's working more than once in the same thread! Awesome.
(For those who don't get it: usually, it's Grammar Nazis who point out grammar errors. But if a troll points out grammar errors, he does that for the sole purpose of including a spelling or grammar error in his correction (commonly "mispel" or "mispell"; bonus points if you correct a grammar error and call it a misspelling), with the intention that someone else will think it's an actual mistake and correct him back. Then he can go and say "lol I did that on purpose noob" because he officially proved to himself that his e-penis is much larger than the other person's. That's troll logic; it's annoying, and hardly comprehendable for non-trolls. Luckily for me, my spelling is pefrect and noone will ever need too correct me.)
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(http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/demotivational-posters-irish-special-forces.jpg)
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I could out-drink the chief.
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I could out-drink the chief.
You probably could, judging from the photos I've seen. ;D
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Hey! We need them! what's the purpose of this forum anyway? Trying to solve problems and raising interesting questions in a ever changing unusual game? naah! :P
BoevenF is right, we need them. They only bring great interest and use to this forum.
Yet they return. Again. And again. Aaaaaand again.
Its sooo much fun to piss off the moderators. You can't do that to any other game, where the development/owners of the game are open to criticism.
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I could out-drink the chief.
I drink for the taste not for the waste ;D
BoevenF is right, we need them. They only bring great interest and use to this forum.
The people who easily fall into the definition I gave provide the interests of pointless arguing and more trolling. Their uses are to create more stupidity in the forum. So, yes, you are right Vakachehk.
Its sooo much fun to piss off the moderators. You can't do that to any other game, where the development/owners of the game are open to criticism
They are clearly open to criticism because a) there is a complaint department b) it has posts c) they are responded to d) there is a bugtracker e) it has complaint tasks f) they are responded to g) all which are deemed applicable and maintaining with the game's progress are worked on, sooner or later.
Whether or not they accept your ideas is up to them - and Talad.
These trolls are allowed to stay because the community accepts and oft-times promotes the behavior. I'm not talking about whimsical trolls who post random pictures, I mean the people who make this forum look like hell. If the people who use this forum put a negative stigma on malicious posting, these people will leave, because they will realize what they do is not tolerated. Even in Planeshift game reviews the notability of this forum and its trolls is seen.
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Its sooo much fun to piss off the moderators. You can't do that to any other game, where the development/owners of the game are open to criticism.
I don't understand what is fun about pissing off moderators? Unless there's some tech BOT thing I don't know about,
I was under the impression that moderators and developers are 1) human beings and 2) volunteers.
@Irishman and trolls- I agree! ::|
Unless the troll is 1) way cute or 2) has something helpful and not hateful to say. Or 3) she's Irish... ;D
:whistling:
RR
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You can't do that to any other game, where the development/owners of the game are open to criticism
What games specifically are you referring to?
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Its sooo much fun to piss off the moderators. You can't do that to any other game, where the development/owners of the game are open to criticism
They are clearly open to criticism because [blablabla]
You should realize that good counter-arguments are troll's most liked food. That said, no man, they obviously aren't open to arguments. Everything you mentioned is just there to create the illusion that they are. It's just like politics, where your voice doesn't actually count, they only say so. And it's important to them that you think they listen to you, so that you further support them; hence, they will do everything to maintain the illusion. In reality, you don't count.
I think the real problem is you and other people who don't know how to talk to trolls. E.g., I bet that you were going to carefully pick arguments against the paragraph above. That would be correct, if this was an argument. But it isn't. I don't really object you that much, I just want to see if you can come up with more arguments, maybe weaker ones that I could then take to pieces, or just repeat your old arguments and I can blame you for doing that.
The problem is: to get rid of trolls, the community must learn how to deal with trolls. Banning, telling them to leave, re-telling what they are doing, or bringing the problem up to discussion will not only not help at all, but also make them even more convinced about themselves. Trolls will only leave if everyone's used to them and doesn't bother about them. Maybe they will even stay in such a situation, but then it doesn't matter all that much anymore, because everyone's used to them. Okay, so they can still troll noobs, that's a good point. But trolling noobs away isn't all that exciting, it's more exciting to mess with people that think they know you. Thus, it's way more likely for trolls to leave if everyone accepts them.
IT'S A PARADOX, BUT IT'S TRUE.
You don't have to believe me, but if you want to get rid of the trolls, you'd better.
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That would work derula... except for one thing. The biggest problem is the conversion factor from being a relatively content player to outright troll. What needs to be admited is that more than general bitterness is causing this. Thus necessitating effective action. Some action doesn't count. It has to be the right action.
I understand that there's always been people coming and going and people trolling. But, at some point, the people coming slowed down considerably, and bad word of mouth isn't enough by itself to cover this. However, the people going didn't slow in response. Worse yet, more people turned into malcontents... some even coming back here to become proper trolls.
Now I told myself for years that it was all cyclical and it would eventually resolve itself blah blah blah... but the fact of the matter is, there is a consistent downward turn and waiting it out isn't working... look at player numbers, dev team numbers, and gm team numbers... almost too low to be sustainable. Then tack on the rise of the malcontents... even if it was just a matter of the players needing to get off it, the team would still need to do something positive in similar channels to counteract it. Adding new bells and whistles to the game and Talad hiding behind "the PS Team" just to say said team refutes the claims of malcontents doesn't cut it... There needs to be some direction changes just to clear the air.
For the Lazy People :P : Trolls will be around until the favorable environment for them is cleaned properly and thoroughly. Even adding stigma isn't enough.
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Everything you mentioned is just there to create the illusion that they are. It's just like politics, where your voice doesn't actually count, they only say so. And it's important to them that you think they listen to you, so that you further support them; hence, they will do everything to maintain the illusion. In reality, you don't count.
Only an ignorant or apathetic fool believes that a person's voice doesn't count. That is you.
Trolls will only leave if everyone's used to them and doesn't bother about them.
That is exactly what has and is happening. People don't bother - they just chatter away with them.
Illysia, more posts about solutions?
Neither of you know what your talking about.
Trolls are people who like to hurt others - they use forums as mediums for their needs. They survive for long because they are tolerated, and often accepted. PS will never be perfect enough - nothing ever is - for trolls to be gone forever. People such as Xoel would subsist here, still, if this project had everything someone like Illysia could dream of in an RPG.
Don't even bother to try and work in a way this ties into PS' problems involving the GMs, Devs, gameplay or client issues. Pointless.
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Expand your horizons Irishman... and definitions. ;) Trolls that don't affect anybody are as good as not there. Timmy does it all the time but it's not the same kind of trolling and many find it absolutely hilarious. I'm afraid you are no more "aware" of the reality thab anyone else and derula is right. Posts like the one to Xoel make matters worse by feeding the fire oh wise one. ;)
Also, ignore the ties if you want... The team has had that policy for sometime and look where PS is. :oops:
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Need I explain the context of my using the world "Trolls"? There are different types of trolls - thats why I gave the definition for the context, Timmy not being included, neither I or others like Sarras.
ADDED: Feeding the fire does not include making measures to stop the source of the flame.
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Starving trolls seek lusher feeding grounds... ;) Don't feed the trolls.
A simple but profound internet concept.
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That is my point. Been saying it in almost all of my replies to this topic.
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And ironically all your posts happen to be troll food. That's the point derula made. ;)
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Every post can be troll food. He made no good point.
Feeding the fire does not include making measures to stop the source of the flame.
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Trolls have their dining prefrence like any other and a lot of flamable materials doesn't negate gasoline's particularly notable interaction with fire.
Simply put, you're putting the fire out with gasoline... ;) As any internet source, and anyone with some experience with trolls, will tell you, ignoring them is the best thing you can do.
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http://verydemotivational.com/2010/08/17/demotivational-posters-statler-and-waldorf/
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...
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I have no issue in personally dealing with trolls - I am attempting something for the community as a whole. I don't know where you got the impression that I needed your shouldnts, shoulds and advices.
For the rest of what your saying, you're going off into a tangent I have no interest in.
I made my point before this.
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:whistling:
RR blows a whistle.
Fight called on account of love...
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@Roled: Nice try, but this is still the PS forum. ;)
@Irishman: If you are trully tired then don't read their posts. Creating something to put more attention on the troll makes matters worse. The advice was to warn you, don't stick troll bait around your neck if you are sick of them. And I pity you if you have yet to figure out that this forum does nothing for the community, nothing positive anyway, and your post is not exempt... Why do you think so many gave up and why others turned to trolling? Trolling and asking why X bug is happening is mostly what's keeping this forum alive.
@Derula: The problem is not that people have mental issues but that the game was close to their heart... so close that issue with the game stabbed them at the heart very easily... I'm as guilty of it as anyone.
I would bet that all the vehement trollers and malcontents out there not only loved this game at one time but deep down they still do and that's what drives them to act the way they do. Like for instance, for awhile after I left, I was so bitter about the state of PS that it almost made me sick to even think about it... but if you spend 3 years devoting more time to trying to make a game doomed to futilty work than you devote even to your own self promotion, you end up there...
The problem is, people wanted this game to succeed. They wanted it to succeed because it had the potential to be epic, and everybody that put in too much time was trying to at least do what they could to prop it up and help it live up to its potential. Unfortunately, it meant nothing as the person at the top of the food chain, as it were, thinks he's owed this kind of help, doesn't really appreciate it, and worse yet doesn't understand that the game is going down the toilet much faster than coming out of it. People attached to this game because it was epicness they could have a part in and have fun contributing to but then it disappointed... badly.
That is what the trolling is... It's some people's coping mechanism for a let down that is equal to the percieved epicness quotient that PS could have had. The more a person struggled to make that epic reality a true reality, the harder they splatted when reality set in. This is why I have been more or less harping on the need to change deal... The game is beyond not living up to its potential and the worse it falters the worse the trolling, various malcontents, PR, and development progress will be. This is why the people that are the safest are the people that could care less if the game succeeds, regardless of the point at which they gained this attitude.
No amount of mounts and reflections will change this.
keep this in mind: People still play old DOS games with simple to no graphics and only so much detail. Why do people play old and out dated games? Because they are still fun, good games. Success does not depend on graphics or how fast you can turn out updates. The foundation of PS need to be shored up or anything else is "polishing a turd" to steal Rigwyn's expression. ;)
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Ok... I'm confused about one thing. Maybe it's because I didn't come from a gaming background, and this is my first MMORPG, but something is very weird to me.
This is a free game. The developers take suggestions and hints and actually try to implement them. People's concerns are taken seriously. And yet... some people have nothing better to do than come onto the forum and whine and complain about how it isn't perfect.
I have a lot of experience modding and admining on forums, and honestly...behavior like that isn't always tolerated. One would suppose that the trolls might learn to be grateful for being allowed trolldom here... but then again... that doesn't seem fitting with the excellent quality of snarking displayed by some of them and is probably too much to ask.
That being said, I don't spend enough time on the forum to consider anyone in particular to be an actual troll, so this isn't addressed to anyone in particular.
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There is a difference between lurkers and trolls. Some here are both, and many here are just one or the other.
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This is a free game. The developers take suggestions and hints and actually try to implement them. People's concerns are taken seriously. And yet... some people have nothing better to do than come onto the forum and whine and complain about how it isn't perfect.
It's not quite that open ended. I don't think anyone that complains, aside from the 5 minute player, comes to complain at how generally "imperfect" it is. There is generally some pet issue. For many it's the roleplay enforcement thing but anywhere you have RP this issue is sure to follow. Secondly, all MMOs are like this and PS actually gets off fairly easily as the stuff the average MMO player does amounts to "U SUX!!! Wai dun I have teh epic stuffz!"
Not only that, your average MMO player isn't contributing squat, nor do they make any bones about it. They want everything shiny and working when they first open the game. Now some are more reasonable but still not as generous as the PS community has been over the years. This is why you can still find reviews of PS from over ther years with people saying PS sucks for X reason, or it'll be cool once it's actually a game but conversely there will be praise for the community.
If you want to get some perspective on how people typically act in MMO, pack your armor try out some others... Once you get over the shock of the game working when you first open it, without having to learn all sorts of technical facts and tricks, you'll notice that PS's community at its worse is still not that bad, trolls and all.
I’ll try to leave the part about the suggestions and hints, and people’s concerns alone for the most part. Talk about a flame war waiting to happen... But the bulk of that stuff happened in the past. It’s not that good now. However, that kind of mentality and positive policy is what at least got PS to this point. It’s just that changes in policy makers’ MO have reared their heads.
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tl;dr.
But the fact that Illysia is in here posting long messages mean I don't really think you succeeded, Irishman.
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I know Overtherainbow. But I'm trying to make a community thing. It has to start there.
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@Irishman: If you really want to make a community thing, why not make a more serious post that is an appeal to the community rather than more or less begging Trollers to act up? Especially since this forum's troller population took a numbers hit like everything else... Most of them are just gone now. Speak to the people that would shun said trollers. Saying anything to trollers only gives them a reason to wait for something to troll.
@OTR: This (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37729.0) is a long post. The above posts are just typing practice. ;)
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It is a serious post. I wrote humor in it because that is my style - but it doesn't take away the matter of it being real. I've spoken my mind to those who would hear. Whether or not they do something to begin a community stigma on the behavior of the defined troll is up to them as well. Ignoring, admonishing; including not promoting, these are all methods.
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@Irishman: If you really want to make a community thing, why not make a more serious post that is an appeal to the community rather than more or less begging Trollers to act up? Especially since this forum's troller population took a numbers hit like everything else... Most of them are just gone now. Speak to the people that would shun said trollers. Saying anything to trollers only gives them a reason to wait for something to troll.
Obviously the trollers are not gone, as there is still a need for threads like this in the first place. And like Irishman says, just because a post was written humorously does not mean that the message it conveys is not serious in and of itself.
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True, but given your penchant for silliness, the seriousness of the post can be missed due it being too close to your other more satirical but not serious work. People could easily just assume you are merely saying it for saying it sake but don't actually intend for it to be taken seriously at all. Presentation is key. ;)
@ Tessra: "Most of them are gone" I would love to see a laundry list of trollers that are still around. Some shook people up more but there were aren't that many big trollers that people can really undo people... And Xoel and Vaka are not so outrageous that they can't be tolerated. In my opinion, Xoel hasn't changed, he just changed sides. An try writing a serious law funny and see how well that goes over. It's not the funny, it's the need to distingush it from his previous funny works.
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There was never a long list of malicious trolls. It has always been a key consistent few.
I am not writing a law - I am stating the obvious. It wasn't "presented" well. Yet if they read on that becomes a nevertheless.
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There was never a long list of malicious trolls. It has always been a key consistent few.
I am not writing a law - I am stating the obvious. It wasn't "presented" well. Yet if they read on that becomes a nevertheless.
Names please, then we can lol at the incompleteness of the list.
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The basic list is obvious. But if you want it write it up yourself man.
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Asking for names is simply asking for a flame war. It's not nice, polite or right to call people out in public and proclaim them as trolls or any other negative term. Just my opinion, but it's flaming and rude to do so.
This is a generalized commentary based upon a problem noticed by one forum notable. However he chose to present it, many people obviously agree that it is a problem, however not everyone agrees on the severity of the problem, or the method in which is should be handled. I don't see why it matters how it was presented, as long as people correctly read into the serious nature of the issue being discussed.
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The basic list is obvious. But if you want it write it up yourself man.
... Clearly not that obvious.
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The basic list is obvious. But if you want it write it up yourself man.
... Clearly not that obvious.
Ezekiel 12:2
2 Son of man, you are living among a rebellious house. They have eyes to see but do not see, and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious house.
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heh religion?
no more point arguing here.
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@Derula: [...]
Aww come on! I wanted to build up some mystery and make him fear the trolls, now you go ruining it*.
But seriously. Any troll who's reading this thread will think "Oh yeah they're hating me; perfect! Means I'm doing something right!"
* troll language for "good points"
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tl;dr.
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Asking for names is simply asking for a flame war. It's not nice, polite or right to call people out in public and proclaim them as trolls or any other negative term. Just my opinion, but it's flaming and rude to do so.
I plead guilty.
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Dragging the bible into this is bad form as a random scripture does nothing and there were better scriptures to use.
@Irishman and Tessra: Ok fine, be hardheaded... If you don't treat a problem more professionally on this forum then it will go nowhere even faster than it has. But since I can't possibly know anything, I'll leave that to you who know how to effectively get the community's attention to work that out. And calling people trolls here is almost a sign of status. Not to mention, like I said... most aren't here anymore. ;)
@Jacula: <3 you big ol' teddy bear. You're no troll. ;D
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who is Jacula?
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Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness.
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@Jacula: <3 you big ol' teddy bear. You're no troll. ;D
hes actually a teletubbie according to gossip/xssia ....although i forget if he was Laalaa or Tinky Winky ...
anyway Hiya jac & Illy :)
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Hiya Lilu. Teletubbie... ;D Why he gotta be a teletubbie? Why not a carebear or my little pony? :woot: Being a child of the 90s ftw.
As you can see... Jacula is no troll as Drey has no idea who he is and Drey knows everybody. ;)
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bad trolls are easy to spot.
people who are truly good at trolling can do it without being suspected of trolling for years.
like UtM did to Talad and the settings department.
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Wait.. Who is Drey?
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Drey is your god.
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bad trolls are easy to spot.
people who are truly good at trolling can do it without being suspected of trolling for years.
like UtM did to Talad and the settings department.
Or Talad did to PS :P (Although, to be fair, people started suspecting him pretty quickly).
In response to the bible, and equally credible book once wrote:
"Run, run as fast as you can, you can't catch me, I'm the stinky cheese man."
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Ezekiel 12:2
2 Son of man, you are living among a rebellious house. They have eyes to see but do not see, and ears to hear but do not hear, for they are a rebellious house.
It's not just a bible quote. Set aside the ZOMG TEH RELIGUNZ for a few seconds and look at the meaning behind it. Perfectly appropriate.
But seriously. Any troll who's reading this thread will think "Oh yeah they're hating me; perfect! Means I'm doing something right!"
I have to wonder how the definition of troll changes in people's minds. Because I think some people on this forum are trolls, and probably wouldn't ever consider themselves to be a troll. They might be reading this thread and thinking how lame other trolls are. ;)
I plead guilty.
I don't know you.... but can I hug you? :woot:
bad trolls are easy to spot.
people who are truly good at trolling can do it without being suspected of trolling for years.
\\o//
@Irishman and Tessra: Ok fine, be hardheaded... If you don't treat a problem more professionally on this forum then it will go nowhere even faster than it has. But since I can't possibly know anything, I'll leave that to you who know how to effectively get the community's attention to work that out. And calling people trolls here is almost a sign of status. Not to mention, like I said... most aren't here anymore. ;)
I'm not hardheaded. ;) There's a difference in addressing a problem in a professional matter and bringing it to light in a humorous one. Let's face it... aside from the mods who happen to pop into this thread, us random forumers don't actually have much ability to dole out solutions. All we can do in this case is change how we address the problem-causers, in this case trolls. We've all been discussing this problem calmly and professionally, or at least trying to. It's nothing personal that I don't agree with your methods, nor does it mean you "can't possibly know anything..." If you always joke around, people will hesitate to take you seriously. If you are always serious, people will consider you uptight and will most likely make references to the random things that need to be removed from your anal sphincter. [collective you, not you specifically, Illysia] The only option is to pick a middle ground, to combine brevity and gravity in a way that people can both respect and relate to. Perhaps the people you knew before as being the major trolls are not here. But there are still people here who troll the forums and annoy the masses. Call them trolls in training if you like, but if their behavior is not checked now, it will only worsen in time.
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Drey is your god.
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Dudes, you're players. Why make it about profession?
I say we install a rule where we invite back the best trolls this forum has had to offer, even if we have to troll them back here.
...
So what's this mad talk about pointing out trolls in a witch hunt? So there's that... there are religious quotes and Drey mentioned as an supernatural being. Man, I've just been trolled.
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Drey is your god.
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=19707.msg216226#msg216226
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=18892.msg207390#msg207390
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=21035.msg230598#msg230598
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=25976.msg290789#msg290789
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=20122.msg220581#msg220581
and finally the original http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=17317.msg208500#msg208500
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In response to the bible, and equally credible book once wrote:
"Run, run as fast as you can, you can't catch me, I'm the stinky cheese man."
This... The reason why using religious text on the internet is usually a bad idea (in a non religious setting)... The only reason to bring a religious text into a discussion is for added credibility and authority. A point can be valid in its own right. Since the internet is a diverse place, using a religious text for added credibility and authority is useless as not everybody recognizes it as such making it moot. Worse yet, this is not the best scripture to use as we already established that certain kinds of trolls can be a problem because they refuse to change... That’s a given. What we need is the scripture where God restores order with a stern talk and ostracism. ;D
@Tessra: Oh and think for a moment about how many “serious” or neutral posts you’ve seen from Irishman and compare that with his post count. If you can find more than 10 PM me and I’ll send back a cookie. ;) “If you always joke around, people will hesitate to take you seriously” <-- This is the very point I am making. If someone other than Irishman had posted it, it might still have the same weight, but since Irishman spends most of his time joking around the original post looses its power.
To a certain extent, people need to chill to deal with trolls. Getting in an uproar every time someone posts a less than nice thread doesn’t help. It’s like dealing with a child that cuts up for attention. The more of a fuss you make about its behavior, the more it will act up. The best thing is to ignore what you can and swiftly, but decisively discipline when necessary. Therefore, part of the problem is that active mods like Neko need to be put on the complaint section and other problem areas so they can actually mod the stuff that needs it. Shame that in all this time that solution hasn’t been applied.
And Drey a god? PSSSSHHHHTTT! :P He doesn’t even have centralized holy scripture explaining his origin. ;)
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Confucius
Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated
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And Drey a god? PSSSSHHHHTTT! :P He doesn’t even have centralized holy scripture explaining his origin. ;)
Did you just volunteer Illysia darling?
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Drey is your god.
(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2140/impliedfacepalmv.jpg)
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Illysia is right though. Irishman does joke around a lot, and also you just need to shrug trolls off and don't take them seriously. What I do, if anyone says anything horrible to me I just think to myself "troll", if anyone calls me a 'troll' I think to myself "troll" so you know, I just don't take anything in seriously. Yes if someone gets in my way of my gaming experience I will go to a GM as that is only fair.
And just to note that no matter what people say there will always be a troll joining Planeshift, every few months, so there is really no point in this topic.
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Very informative.
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Well this thread was a good laugh. Considering it was written 100% for me.
Mr. So Called Irishman (actually as much Spanish as Irish, or so he once said to me), I find your entire original post to be rather hypocritical. Many, many people have told me you peeve them off because, you, dear sir, are a complete troll. One looks at this forum a few times, and cannot miss several threads made by you, poetically putting others down. Troll work. Then there's hundreds of posts where you do the same, or diss others in threads. To tell a malcontent (excuse the pun) to gtfo is hypocritical. At least the malcontent's (excuse the re-use of the pun) opinion is valid, and in many cases not intended to be humourous. As you stated, you infused humour into your original post. Therefore you're trolling.
Then again, you're failing at trolling, as the humour is dryer than a nun's nether-regions. You just make an ass of yourself.
At all those saying Talad (and his "team") listens: Take the wool off your eyes. Sure, they'll change some mechanics, add some pretty graphics, give you a pretty item or three.... but the politics of PlaneShift will always be the same. Controlled. Dictated. Paranoid.
A very strong reply, and I fully agree.
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Lets intoduce a little anarchy here ;D
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Venorel makes a note to suggest the category of Bitterest Oldbie in Irish's next awards ceremony and then adds a couple of potential nominees.
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/me does the same, and finds that it's a bit difficult to narrow down the list ;D
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I gave up on this thread. Xoel/Taphan/Akkaido - whatever you go by, you aren't worth my time. None of my threads are made in anger or attempts to belittle someone, no, that is what you do. People are peeved by most anything, I could care less.
Edit: There are two types of trolls. I am one of the whimsical ones. I do troll, its obvious. But I am not of the other class, the ones that are just jerks. Those with half a brain and half a level of emotional intelligence can see my poems are not insulting, just unrelated.
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Told ya that trying to do something beneficial for the community on this forum is useless... :whistling:
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Venorel rolls her eyes even rolly-er.
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Hehe... made you look. ;)
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Sigh.
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As one of the persons who for sure would be on a list of lurker trolls I was of course tempted to post here earlier...but didn't out of respect of something derula said (even if it is deleted by now). Still will try to make this not too much of a trolling post...so only bowing to bloodedIrishman and handing him the crown of best troll in the PS forum for starting this thread.
But the real reason why I post here now is because I was asked lately in IRC to make a short comprehension what is so different now in PS compared to the "good old times". I know this is off-topic in a way...but on the other hand might help to understand a few people why some "lurker trolls" act as they do. The reason this person asked me in IRC was to learn to better RP. And my only answer to this can be that nothing said about previous times will help anyone to learn Roleplaying better. I already hate the term "good old times" and think I never used it before. Sure I compared ongoings now with the past at times but I am also aware that there was a lot of crap going on a few years ago. So gave out a link to a RP guide (http://outlaws.myfreeforum.org/about810.html) I wrote for new outlaws when I was one of their leaders...but there are others in the Guides and Tutorials (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?board=53.0) section of this forum.
And allow me another warning...me talking about "good old times" is already a joke itself as I am hardly a "midbie" player of PS. I started playing around 0.3.17/18 so in the long shot this is nothing. I can only speak about the things happening after that. Dwarvesbane (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=23651.0) wars, The Queen of Fools preaching in front of the temple or claiming to be an Octrach (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=22555.0) and the even much earlier crystal hunts all happened before I started playing (Or I was still far too shy to get involved).
So, was playing PS so much different from playing it now?
This question is pretty hard to answer for me. Of course playing the game was different for me back then as I was new to it and had a lot to learn. The interesting question is if it was different for a new player starting now or a few years back. The obvious answer to that is also yes, as PlaneShift changed a lot since back then. There is a tutorial now and without wanting to discuss it's content and ambitious I think that the general availability of such a tutorial made it at bit easier to start the game.
Also more skills and maps are available now...but here it already starts to get difficult. More maps for example doesn't just mean that players have more to explore now but also that the chars are more scattered. When the world didn't include the winch, Gugrontid, the caves in ojaroad2 and the ceremonial burial well (and yes, I know, before that BD and the wildness maps) but the player count reached more then 200 almost every weekend it was nearly impossible to not run into some people Roleplaying every few minutes. So learning by watching was far more easy back then (I still managed it though to stay in the sewers hitting rats alone for two weeks to get used to some game mechanics before I found the courage to communicate with other players ;)). This maybe is also a reason why some older players (like me) couldn't get used to tells asking where you are and if you are up for some RP. This was just not necessary, you played with the next person you found who was up for it. I can understand that with a low player count as the game has right now this isn't an option most of the time but OOC tells to initiate RPs still feel wrong.
A lot of other game mechanics changed also. And while all new improvements are of course to welcome most of the updates also had some "unexpected" side-effects. Allowing nonlethal duals is a great improvement. But a consequence of this is that some players dueled now everywhere just for fun. Before this change it was easy to avoid fun-only duels. You knew that these kind of players met in the library of the DR and just didn't go there (Looking at you there Lhaa ;)). Wasn't much of an issue. Ignoring a duel at the plaza is a bit harder. (And I will say a bit more about OOC activities later...so please don't take this as a rant about them happening at all)
About skills...mhh, again something not so easy. Yes, it's great that more skills got implemented. But again that had some other consequences as well. Having a max of 20 in brown way for example also restricted the need of grinding in a way. I have to be careful here as maximums of skills shouldn't mean at all that every char has to reach them. But taking in consideration that some players have fun with gaining skills raising a maximum of a magic way from 20 to 150 leads for those players to a lot more grinding.
Talking about skill leads to another major shift in the attitude of the players in my opinion. With the game maturing the claims that every RP needs a backup of stats and skills also grew. Not wanting to go into a discussion if this is justified or not. But it is for sure something that was different a few years ago. While Duraza was kind of trained I think (correct me if I am wrong) Xeonart wasn't. But training Xeonart to a level to justify his skills and ambitions would have taken very, very long. I doubt Duraza (the player this time ;)) would have spend that time for a char that was likely to downfall in the end. And I can't say very much about the RP as I only witnessed it from the sideline but all people I know who were involved had a lot of fun with it. If Duraza (and others involved) had spend all the time that went into this RP into training a lot people would miss some fun now. And people like Duraza are unique. I could never come up with a RP like this..my style is more to adjust to ongoing (casual) RPs and try to make them "bigger". But if every such grand scale RP needs a year of training before now I can easily understand why people don't feel like doing them anymore. Again this shouldn't sound like a complain about this shift of attitude but merely show differences between now and the past. Grand scale RPs are still possible even if all involved characters need skills to backup their RP. Now they are just reserved to established chars that already had enough training (and probably shouldn't get killed during the RP because of this). It's just a shift what will be RPed now. The evil wizard that is overcome by a alliance of guilds is less likely nowadays than the hero overcoming some unimportant alts.
All those side effects wouldn't pose a real problem...if they were dealt with in some way. And just saying once a year that guards should be respected in a casual post of a PS team member or sending out GM guards for a week or two after a lot of complains in the forums again isn't the right solution.
Now the points get even more only a personal view of me. Did the general Player of PS change? I would answer that with yes, but it's hard to say if that is really true as I changed a lot in the years playing PS. So let's start the easy way...What was the same back then: There were also as much complains about everything in the PS forums as now. Already when I started people complained about too much OOC in main chat, duel challenges just for fun, GM favoritism, lack of rules and much more. Also most wish-list suggestions nowadays were already made in the past. There were large OOC dramas back then...anyone still remember Order of Daggers leaving the game? The tone of the PS team towards the players and the other way around was also not that different ("You have been Caarried" ;)). There were also always some new players who after playing for a few weeks knew everything better and left a months later again because nobody listened to them. But it still felt different in game. When I started playing and someone used OOC chat without brackets in main it usually didn't take very long until someone complained and explained that this shouldn't be done. You used the name of another char without getting introduced? Then you could be sure that in most cases you were poked about it. In the first week after I joined my first guild I saw how my guildmaster back then kicked two people from the guild because they kept on talking OOC in main even after several pokes in guild chat and tells to not do it. And this wasn't a very RP oriented guild. And not saying that everything was better back then, just that there was more of a consent among all players what is accepted in game. There was still a lot of crap happening like OOC spying on other guilds or godmodding. There was also grinding back then and people did it a lot. (Even if it was gold instead of mining platinum or slaying rogues now). But the mines didn't feel as silent as now. And with the overall less need to grind it didn't take long enough to get bored about making up mining songs and poems with Anumesa there.
But what is the problem for some long playing people then? Nothing of this sounds as if it is very serious.
The main answer to this is already in the question. Over a long time a lot builds up and can't be seen separated anymore. And it also means you have seen most of the discussions already. And a very important point is that you might play long enough to see how some things shifted. For example Progress Points. Over years members of the PS team kept on telling that they know the system is bad and that it will get changed in the future just not now as there are more important things to work on. Now not too long ago this was revised and it was stated that the PP system is the system to go with. So I guess a few people who kept silent about the PP system as they thought it would be redone at some distant point in the future might be a bit disappointed now.
Another big point is EZPC in my view. Over years it was said there must be a way to get RPers and casual players not interested in RPing to be on the same server. After years of complains of those fractions about each other a second server was introduced. All fine so far...and what happened then? Nobody was encouraged to go to EZPC, all people wanting to stay in laanx just to not loose their skills were tolerated. A separation of the two fractions never happened. The PS forums are still full of the same complains of RPers or casual players as before the introduction of the second server. Every suggestion for guidlines on laanx was rejected and it was said that this server should be for everyone. So in the end a complete OOC server and a server that only kind of tolerates RP were created. No wonder that the complains kept on coming...for a lot people the situation only got worse by it. The second server was a missed chance to get rid of a lot of complains in the PS forums. OOC actions like "painting" pictures on the ground with animal parts, having duels just for fun in all places, chatting about the latest music or figuring out what places you can jump on with the help of your mount are fun for a lot of people and a reason to play a game. But at the same time exactly the same things are annoying for another group of players. Both groups could have been made happy with the two servers but it wasn't done.
For me personal it got kind of obvious the first time that this is not the game I was wanting to play with the guild house auction marathon (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34368.0). Sure there were some examples before that like GMs ranting about players not playing as they want them to be in their events (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=33351) but that's less of a problem in comparison to saying that if you want a GH you better forget about all fun and only mine. Roleplaying? It's an event so it's already a support of RP. This was also the first thread I posted in without caring to even try to be nice. At this point it should have been clear to me what kind of players PS wants to attract and that I am not one of them. Still I kept on playing...and believed that there will also be improvements for RPers. But another year later it was clear that there is a complete different understanding what can be seen a RP. Again nothing that really poses a problem...just move on and find something else. It turns into a problem when you get told by people who either can't understand what you mean or don't even bother to read what you type that everything you say is just plain wrong and then are given examples that have nothing to do with what you (wanted) to say. If you go through discussions like this for a year or more I guess it's normal you start to act the same way...and just write replies the same trolling way. So my respect to Arerano who managed to leave without much trolling...I wasn't capable of that.
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Ouch...did I forget to say that? Okay...so in addition to all above the most important reason of long term players going carzy is all the missed sex because of nights in front of a monitor playing some pixel char.
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Doesn't look like it judging from your first post. ;)
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Aiwendil, have we not realized what a waste of time it is to say more than a paragraph or so on this forum? People don't know how to read so we best speak in our own language.
To Aiwendil in Lurker Troll: bla bla yada yada something intelligent yada yada blar blar blar herpa derpa herpa bla yada backing you up bla bla yada blarg yada hoopa doopa bla bla bla statement of grief yada yada bla bla I know how ya' feel on that hoopa doopa.
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Aiwendil, have we not realized what a waste of time it is to say more than a paragraph or so on this forum? People don't know how to read so we best speak in our own language.
To Aiwendil in Lurker Troll: bla bla yada yada something intelligent yada yada blar blar blar herpa derpa herpa bla yada backing you up bla bla yada blarg yada hoopa doopa bla bla bla statement of grief yada yada bla bla I know how ya' feel on that hoopa doopa.
tl;dr
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I know Geoni...but the text was ready and much more fun to post it here than only send it a single person. The smile I got out of Rinenud's post was worth it ;):
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[stuff went here]
Yeah.
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I...can't even...consider reading all that. Sorry. Aiwendil, man, come on. Summary dude, summary.
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Even in Planeshift game reviews the notability of this forum and its trolls is seen.
I am rather in agreeman with the Irishment, yet I wonder how true, and important, the above statement would be.
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I thought the account names already stand for the summery:
Aiwendil: Go and play another game.
Irishman: Nothing to see here...just trolling.
Illysia: Bitter oldbie who has no clue.
Talad: Just some hatred against random people.
Weltall: Everything is fine because....
LigH: Lets all be friends.
Zanzibar: Look at my post count and then ask again if I have something important to say.
Neko: Play, kids, play...
...
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Summary:
Things aren't the same, that's not necessarily a bad thing but the team wasted opportunities to iron out some of the wrinkles in the system. Like with the non RP server, now there is just a non RP server and one where RP is kinda tolerated. I knew this game wasn't really for me, but I held out hope... oh well.
Shame though, even with the crap that happened in the past there was still a lot of fun had while RPing, back when there were more consistent standards for RP even in not very RP oriented guilds.
Sorry that it's a little out of order there. ;D
Cute Aiwe. ;)
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Sorry. Aiwendil, man, come on. Summary dude, summary.
It seemed a well thought out, heart felt, post to me.
To my understanding the summary (and paraphrase) would be....
A stronger enforcement of of separating RPers and non-RPers on the two servers was a missed chance.
The good old days had all the drama and complaints that we see today.
The larger player base and smaller map had a greater chance of RPs to take place.
The use of tells are a great downfall to much spontaneous RP.
The demand for stats to back up a character's profile has lead to the loss of buff RP characters and exposed them for the whimps they really are. Now instead of seeing an RP that some character called Xeonart enacted; which lots of people supposedly had a lot of fun with; now the "evil wizard that is overcome by a alliance of guilds is less likely nowadays than the hero overcoming some unimportant alts."
The raising of those skills has lead to player grinding; which it seems to be inferred is taking them away from RP.
One wonders what some of the bitter oldies (not directed at Aiwendil) where doing through all that time on PS. Wait a sec... these insights and their present actions on the forums seem to correlate. They are attention seeker. In game they want all the glory of attention and fame without the sweat and pain. When they can't get that any more they try to disrupt a community, which they themselves admit, they are no longer part of. Like children throwing tantrums when not getting their way.
My advise is to ignore them and enjoy your game play.
- Nova
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Proof you still don't know what you are talking about Nova. Many of those you call bitter oldbies were the ones performing the RPs that people still talk about... but you called Vaka, who played about a year, a bitter oldbie so I guess you got all your definitions mixed up. ;D
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Venorel ponders the difference between bitter oldies and bitter oldbies and understand how one bent on their own agenda, the joy of spewing their bitterness in a vain attempt for attention; while skimming posts for anything they can troll their agenda with; could get the definitions mixed up.
Edit:
Upon further reflection Venorel thinks, that perhaps a more distinct term should be used to distinguish between bitter oldies and bitter oldbies and decides upon the term o-holes instead of bitter oldies.
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Proof you still don't know what you are talking about Nova. Many of those you call bitter oldbies were the ones performing the RPs that people still talk about... but you called Vaka, who played about a year, a bitter oldbie so I guess you got all your definitions mixed up. ;D
I still don't see where this list is coming from.
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Aww..thanks nova, that made me smile also. A "heart felt" post? Hehe..that one was really funny. I'm afraid you are not around long enough to know what a "heart felt" post of me looks like but please let me assure you that you would see the difference ;).
The summery is okay, not all I wanted to say but I can do with that. But please...don't mark others views in a negative way by using the term "whimps." I really tried to write this somehow neutral (as it was originally meant for someone I respect)...and yes I know I failed a few times in the post to do that. But I didn't call people megalomaniacs because they want others to accept them as great fighters/wizards/whatever just for the amount of interaction they did with some NPC trainers and without creating a story around their char others can adopt. I personally find it very stupid to ask people to backup every RP with skills...I never understood the motivation of those people for playing. So please don't misuse a summery of my posts to present your own opinion there.
But to answer your question. Those bitter oldies you seem to dislike so much were the ones who founded the Stonehead Tavern, motivated others to work in it and visit it, did all the initial work so that it's now much easier for others to run it, along the way also helped with another char serving in the Red Crystal Den and later even helping in the management, created some artwork for the game...argued with me in the forums when I went too far here again (in their(her ;)) view), calmed me down in IRC so that my posts got a little bit less harsh, tried to convince numberless people to get involved more is PS, helped masses of new players with their first steps in game and taught them about the basics of RP, tried to mediate in some arguments here in the forums and stood it an incredibly long time in my view to get told by off by players and devs here. And this is just in the last year...not mentioning all the RPs and events they ran or helped with before that.
Edit: turned off awful smilies
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This topic needs......
(http://www.juliansanchez.com/wp-content/uploads/mt/carebearsstare.jpg)
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Hi Aiwendil,
Perhaps my views are tempered by being a programmer; as yours are tempered by that of a player. There would be no game here, for players like me at least, without the hard dedication of the dev team. To the whiners there would still be chat rooms and irc where they would spin their web of make believe. Because PS has left that style, or is leaving it, behind has made them incredibly bitter in my estimation.
They may have asked for the Stonehead yet it was the Dev Team which supplied it. They bite the hand which feeds them. Long after they are gone and their RPs are a distant memory on some unforgotten post the Dev Team's efforts will still be here for players like myself that arrived at a point when this game was like it was and with no nostalgia of what had been. It pleases me. The degree of RP pleases me. I play. When it does not please me further then it will be time for me to move on.
Those o-holes which are alluded to cannot move on it seems. They miss being able to be a maga-mage because they imagine that they are. Too bad soo sad. Get over it is my advise to them.
- Nova
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@AiwendilH: Awww... <3 Aiwe.
@Miadon: nah, what the topic needs is hater shades.
@Nova: ;D The depth of your ignorance is amazing Nova.
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@Miadon: nah, what the topic needs is hater shades.
i'd go with a little http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g myself
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@Miadon: nah, what the topic needs is hater shades.
i'd go with a little http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU8GIRUd_g myself
Well... coulda been worse. ;D
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YAg9pGiqbQE/RtHk46risDI/AAAAAAAAB5Y/GqoVTcZbW6k/s400/Aliensimpsons.png)
"I bring you love"
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::| Riiiight....
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They may have asked for the Stonehead yet it was the Dev Team which supplied it. They bite the hand which feeds them.
It was completely worth posting here...this thread keeps on amusing me. Funny to see that people say the same, that was said to me a few month earlier to Illysia now. I would point you to my reply about it but I think all those posts got deleted....too bad.
Got accepted to the team by now? You really have the right attitude for it if you think players are not important for a game. Everyone who doesn't like all mechanics as provided should go and play in IRC and everyone with a different opinion is a troll. And while I can understand very well that programing is fun itself I'm still not sure if I see the sense in developing a game without players.
But your are right..everything changes, the playerbase changes, the developers change and the game changes. It's nothing important at all...so people should keep on playing as long as they have fun and trolls should keep on posting as long as they have fun with it.
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But your are right..everything changes, the playerbase changes, the developers change and the game changes.
Actually, the only thing that changes is the names.... all the politics of it is exactly the same. ;)
But you are right, they must have accepted his application as he's doing like xoel and turning into a wonderful little acolyte. I shall enjoy immensely the day he goes the way of Xoel... I trust he will even agree with Xoel by the end. I gave Xoel a year before quitting and he didn't really make that so I shall be more conservative with Nova. I give him 6 months. ;)
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Everyone who doesn't like all mechanics as provided should go and play in IRC and everyone with a different opinion is a troll.
I don't think that's been the point, but mererly the one I wanted to bring through earlier in a bunch of threads.
It's a game that you're supposed to enjoy - if you don't enjoy it anymore (which is pretty likely to happen given it's still under development and even more so given that games are usually things you play for "some time" (may be hours or years, but doesn't matter as much)) then don't get nostalgic about good ol' times, but just move on.
anyway, you're pretty right with your post Aiwendil.
there's not that much that changed except that you have more possibilities now which some like and some don't like to use, just that both groups love to get into fights with each other - at least here on the forum ;)
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Speaking of the rp/!rp server divide they should just have player adjustable skill/stat levels on the RP server and keep the base training system on the EZPC. Set your abilities to whatever you want for role-play and grind for non role-play.
Of course people will abuse any system you can devise but the real role players will keep their character's abilities according to their intended roles. Abusers will set them all max or change them arbitrarily whenever they feel like it.
(http://web.ncf.ca/~cr502/googley.gif)
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I'm surprised that people still believe that the development is the source of the bulk of the discontent. People will forgive the mechanics faults and lack of graphics of a game they love. Think about all the old text only and DOS games that are still actively played. A good game, even half developed can still hold it's own with other games. PS's problem is that the mindset for guiding it isn't well suited to actually keeping it in the range necessary to get most people that hang around to overlook most things.
@Bilbous: I say move the RPers over to the other server as they are the only ones likely to be unhappy enough to actually switch servers. XD
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Please wipe ezpcusa and make it the RP server. Nearly nobody on laanx cares about roleplay at all anymore. So leave them their precious skills and give the Roleplayers a safe place again. And yes...it will take much longer for Roleplayers to gain some skills, but it's still better than the current situation on Laanx.
Sorry Aiwendil, but I have to disagree... ;D One I did all the training I can stand to do years ago before I started RPing... I will not be going through that again. :P Two, Laanx is our server, if anything we should take it back. ;) I say if the rules of the server aren't being followed, make petitions. Sometimes it's not about the speed with which a problem is dealt with but that it is dealt with some how. If we give up on working with it, the problem will get worse. If necessary I will test the limits of how many petitions one person can submit. If the rules of the sever aren't followed, I will most definitely comment on it. ;)
Sorry...couldn't resist Illysia ;).
But yes..that is what I meant in my long post when I said that that you only get replies of people either not able to understand what you mean or not bothering to read what you say. The game mechanics, improvements in gameplay or new artwork were never a problem for me. I hadn't played PS for such a long time if they were. The consequences and how to deal with them were what I wanted to discuss. But it always boiled down again to dumb "You don't like the new stuff...then go and play on IRC."
And I think Bilbous suggestion is a good one for a RP server. Also almost all items should be made easily available on a RP server.
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I thought the account names already stand for the summery:
Aiwendil: Go and play another game.
Irishman: Nothing to see here...just trolling.
Illysia: Bitter oldbie who has no clue.
Talad: Just some hatred against random people.
Weltall: Everything is fine because....
LigH: Lets all be friends.
Zanzibar: Look at my post count and then ask again if I have something important to say.
Neko: Play, kids, play...
...
If I wouldnt know those accounts already I would be grateful, but since I do: Good summary there! Although.. aw hey, Illysia is lovely, although I was a amazed now and then by her latent rudeness!=P
I liked that one long post of yours. To me it read like an in-depth reflection without grudge, and I found my own view on all the things in it. For me, there is nothing left to say. I stopped playing because of right the points you mentioned, less and less I check these forums here (lucky me I checked right when you posted that) hoping to find the changes I would like to see, but I see a development which is not to my liking.
One note on Xeonart: I had seen that char quite a few times in the arena, striving to back up the claimed sword skills!
But hey.. Order of the Dagger?xD
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I'm just glad I didn't make the list I'm furiously lurking here and my wars with Zanzibar were up on the hotplate for quite a while. Annoying as they were to everyone they were more entertaining to me than blah, blah, blah.
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I just read the long post, and thought it was a great read. I often find myself as one of the 'stats to back up rp' crowd, as when it comes to things like smithing, if I said I could make something, I had the compulsion to actually do it. It didn't stop me from RPing a certain way from the start, but rather made me choose which stats to work for (or ask of Xiosia XD). Allowing players on the RP server to allocate their own stats sounds interesting...perhaps there can be a way to give only a certain amount of points, so only x stats out of y could possibly be maxed, while still allocating points to others. That or start with one fighting or magic stat maxed and one profession, then grind from there.
*post kept short due to the Twitter/Text Message era*
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@Aiwe: Well of course I said that then... I PLed cooking if nothing else. I sure wasn't trying to do that again. :p part of the reason I don't spend so much time having exact stats to back RP.... I was cooking long before it was implemented and I only needed enough to make everything in the book. But since I don't have to run the Stonehead, if I had to go back to PS for some odd reason, I wouldn't care at all.
@Phage: I blame Lhaa. ;) Be sure to tell him that Aiwe. ;D (oh and btw, you can't blame Lhaa for anything as that is my job. If you don't believe me, just ask him) If you'll recall, I didn't start speaking out against things before Lhaa's encouragement to do so. But in his defense, he was right. Being quiet and never saying anything never got the really irritating, necessary stuff worked out so there you go... Not that it has changed now but at least people heard me when I said things more harshly. No one can truly claim ignorance, they can only claim stubbornly maintaining status quo.
@taphan: I almost agree, but the problem is less the quality of RP and more the ability to distinguish between OOC and IC. But I noticed that more newer players seemed to miss the fact that the forum is inherently OOC. But I can't blame them as I'd say at least 70% of the Devs no longer realize this either. I.e. why an in game bulletin was of so low a priority... nevermind that IC things should be IG. :whistling:
@PhoenixRizin: You played Samsonus? :O No wonder I never saw much of him, but it seems the old standard holds… Any good RPer you come across is likely someone you already know. ;D Shame though as it would have been fun to have had him around Tel more… C’est la vie… *shrugs*
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Allowing players on the RP server to allocate their own stats sounds interesting...
This thread is great! ;D
One easy stop for all the trolling laughs one could want. Nice one Irish! ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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While not my best attempt to help the forum people, I did realize It's out of my control. Best to let change happen with the mods and admins.
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Not likely to happen until Neko is made a mod of the complaint department. Most issues start there and all the mods for it are rarely around to watch it.
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But hey.. Order of the Dagger?xD
Hehe...was just the first OOC drama that came to my mind. The others I could think of like the auction of the Purrty house by Donari, the EL guild house robbery (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32217.0) or the Gugrontid blockade (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32000.0) would have only led to a discussion about the definition of OOC drama again.
I'm just glad I didn't make the list I'm furiously lurking here and my wars with Zanzibar were up on the hotplate for quite a while. Annoying as they were to everyone they were more entertaining to me than blah, blah, blah.
bilbous: Obscure reference, quote or rhetoric question.
And Aiwendil, I'm not on your list :'(
Akkaido/Xoel/taphan: My thought on this is....and it's better than yours.
While not my best attempt to help the forum people, I did realize It's out of my control. Best to let change happen with the mods and admins.
Then I apologize for making such a bad trolling post in the first place. I'm deeply sorry that it derailed this thread in such a way. From now on I promise to only make one line posts without any content so that there isn't even the slightest chance of them being taken as trolling.
Okay...I guess I should be more harsh to myself also:
Aiwendil: Just sarcasm that is meant to make people leave the game.
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From now on I promise to only make one line posts without any content so that there isn't even the slightest chance of them being taken as trolling.
That's my job, sorry.
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This thread is useless,stop feeding the trolls.
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That's my job, sorry.
So I have to apply as forum mod...and have to be accepted to be allows to only write one-liner? Too bad...but I showed some good will at least ;)
This thread is useless,stop feeding the trolls.
Awww...but then I starve :/
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Your ego is so big you label yourself "Chieftain"
It is a pseudonym. Do you have a brain? Watch.
Xillix Queen of Fools
Talad
Ares
etc..
you made it as a personal attack at me.
Nothing in there references you. Not personal. You just knew it pertained to you.
I don't care about the rest, it's all blah.
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@PhoenixRizin: You played Samsonus? :O No wonder I never saw much of him, but it seems the old standard holds… Any good RPer you come across is likely someone you already know. ;D Shame though as it would have been fun to have had him around Tel more… C’est la vie… *shrugs*
Yup that was I...he wasn't my most known or popular char but he got around in limited action XD
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Yup that was I...he wasn't my most known or popular char but he got around in limited action XD
Aww... I like the character, I ran into him with a couple of times with some of my characters. In fact, Dahserai was quite taken and Telnavi wished he would come to the Den so she'd have something to do other than just hand people drinks. :P
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Hypocrisy. Your ego is so big you label yourself "Chieftain", you can't help but be immature, abuse others, belittle other's style of play completely. You didn't make this thread to "help the forum people", you made it as a personal attack at me. It's funny, you like to pick at splinters with entire trees in your own eyes. Your roleplay leaves alot more to be asked for too, pity the mods deleted my criticism there about your OOC/IC crossovers of information.
I'm sorry if this comes across a bit mean as it isn't intended to, but you're being a little too defensive and paranoid here. I'm not surprised that your rude and unnecessary comments were deleted. Without seeing logs, how could you possibly know what was exchanged between any of the characters other than what was posted. You can't. Therefore, you ASSUMED that there was an IC/OOC crossover and posted snarkily about it in an attempt to get a dig in at someone you ASSUME is attacking you personally. Calm down a little bit, take a step back and a deep breath. It isn't about you.
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i think everyone's a troll once in a while. some more than others though... especially those with more than one forum account. :detective:
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Also there's quite obviously an IC/OOC crossover, when someone says IC something that is known as an OOC issue (the lack of Talad worship-RP from BoT). And even so, how would Kull know that a character of whom he has just met not follow their god truly? If there was more, then perhaps he should post that, so he looks like someone who can actually tell IC and OOC apart, eh?
Either you or me interpreted things wrong, Taphan.
I took Kull to mean the Ruya was a non-believer for not worshipping Dakkru. He asked her what guild she was in and she told him.
As to the BoT not RPing Talad worship, my character is in the Gug Temple each login; arranging flowers and making sure that her chronicle of The Appearance of Talad, Prayer Book for Worship of Talad and Prayer Book of Worship to Talad II need to be replenished or not from those who may have wanted a copy and removed them. Not sure what you consider worship exactly. Yet not sure what some folks mean by RP either. Both are open to personal interpretation it seems.
- Nova
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@Tessra: If I could be bothered, I'd link you the thread where I said "This thread (linked back to here) is obviously all about me." and he replies "Yup".
Also there's quite obviously an IC/OOC crossover, when someone says IC something that is known as an OOC issue (the lack of Talad worship-RP from BoT). And even so, how would Kull know that a character of whom he has just met not follow their god truly? If there was more, then perhaps he should post that, so he looks like someone who can actually tell IC and OOC apart, eh?
Interesting that you didn't try to deny that he belittles and trolls other player's style of play completely.
The short summary of why Chieftain made this thread: he wants the community to worship him. He wants the "sexxxaaay laaaadies".
So, it isn't this thread. It's another thread. Let's be clear here. THIS thread wasn't started about you.
The point of posting a summary RP write-up is so we all can read it in story fashion without having to read all the other things that clutter up a log. Like background information, etc. Also, need I point out that for villains, they don't have to have concrete reasons for doing their dastardly deeds. They could have decided to kill that girl because she just happened to be the first person to walk through that area. But, a speech about random happenstance wouldn't be nearly as poetic. So, lack of worship to the gods it is. Had she been a devout worshipper, like Venorel, she could have very easily begun to list the things she did in worship to her god. But, she didn't. So, even the VICTIM couldn't prove ICly that she wasn't guilty of the "crime" she was executed for.
Since I must have left this out of my earlier post, I'll put it in now. Kull has never once complained about my writing/playing style. Not for any of my alts. He's never belittled me or done any of the other stuff you mention to me.
I've tried to be nice, but now I'm just annoyed. This thread was started about people who have behaviors like yours, taphan. They get pissy about something that happens, mostly on the forum, because they can't be arsed to actually go into the game and see some of this firsthand, so they come into a thread, they take it personal when it isn't about them... and then they run off into other threads made by the topic starter and whine/complain/flame/moan/groan/annoy the heck out of other people/etc. simply because they don't like something said here. Guess what, following someone about a forum to whine is trolling. It's also immature behavior that has no place on a forum, or in threads that are designed to actually serve a purpose.
I can think of quite a few people IG/ICly who have titles. Are they all simply trying to be worshiped by the game at large? Or is it possible that it might just be good character development? I haven't noticed you picking on any of the other titled ones, or on any of the Guild Leaders, as they all have titles.
Taking advantage of the "/ me command" is not mixing IC and OOC. Mixing IC and OOC would be reading something on the forum and then running around in game with your character magically knowing it. Everything here is OOC unless it's in one of the message board threads. There's nothing wrong with giving your opinions on a subject, or the opinions your characters would have. You have no right to be so dictatorial over anyone else's forum posting styles. Incidentally, what you just did to Nova... yeah, that's kinda what you are accusing Kull of doing too.
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Tessra, "Cheiftain" isn't his IC title, it's his IRC name and also the name he used for his dev account character.
nova didn't use the /me command also, it actually went as far as setting the text to red and typing Venorel, or it would have come up as "novacadian think <this>"
I'm only pissy because he's a right hypocrite. And just because he doesn't belittle YOU doesn't mean he isn't the kind of person to belittle many others. Anyone with two eyes can read his threads. So really, learn to close your mouth before making fail comebacks.
I'm not accusing Kull of being dictatorial of forum/playing styles, I'm accusing him of hypocrisy, self-praising, and just being a dick in general.
It is not who I am that defines me but what I do.
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It is not who I am that defines me but what I do.
Is it now?
Maybe that's why so many people define themselves through their job only...
I think "who I am" defines me, and "what I do" defines... what I do. :o
(...and both of them require a long list anyway.)
;D
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And the thread stays amusing....
Seriously, believe me taphan when i say that getting much more distance helps a lot for your mood. Threads like this (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36359.0), that are "not entirely aimed at you" (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36359.msg414399#msg414399) will come up always again. And if you are still too attached to the game you easily take them too serious. (The same by the way for Tessra, if something said here annoyes you better step back from it and just ignore it....this is all just about a game...not about anything important)
But I think this thread showed at least one thing...it's not so easy to define a troll as bloodedIrishman wanted. A lot people see me as a troll, a lot people see bloodedIrishman as a troll, a lot taphan, a lot Illysia, a lot novacadian....But I doubt there are many who see them all as trolls. It seems the definition of what is trolling depends a lot on the one who tries to make it.
To quote bloodedIrishman from here (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36359.msg414395#msg414395)
1. The forums have ALWAYS been infested with trolls and conflicts. Don't base your opinion of the game on this, because the problem causers in the forums are for the most part not important in game.
So best for people who are annoyed about trolls is to take that line of bloodedIrishman serious and just ignore them...not making threads to invite them. And of course this whole thread was made to serve an other purpose than doing a serious discussion about how to get rid of trolls like me in these forums...and I think it served it well. It bound all people who someone might consider trolls in one place and prevented them to pay as much attention to other threads. Just too bad that a few lost the interest so quick or gave up again and found time to post somewhere else...
Edit: typos and note for Tessra
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As stated earlier, nova, you're kinda known for confusing IC and OOC yourself (your posts in OOC threads where "Venorel thinks <something about OOC topic>").
nova didn't use the /me command also, it actually went as far as setting the text to red and typing Venorel, or it would have come up as "novacadian think <this>"
From my observation and experience this is one of the oldest techniques of a person who is not interested in debating an issue; but an attempt to discredit a person on another matter so as to attempt to bring less validity to another point they may have made. Through such digression and innuendo they attempt to discredit the individual and thereby through extension the valid point they may have made. To me this identifies an individual who is argumentative and not open to reasoned debate.
There are only three threads on this forum which are IC to me. They are the Hydleaa, Oja and Gug message boards. If this were not the case then someone could put their little red text of their character walking by while someone like Kull is giving IC info and claim to know it.
My character only knows IC information on the three threads mentioned above. It seemed a good thing to make this clear for any that may think me known for confusing IC and OOC; not in reply to taphan; for he (to me at least) has made clear why he is here... to argue for the sake of arguing.
- Nova
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I'm not going to touch the rest of this thread, but since my character's encounter with Kull came up, I feel like I should clear something up.
Ruya was attacked a full three minutes after I had logged on - I went into my log and checked :P - and barring psychic abilities there was no way for Kull's player to have known she would be in that spot at that time. So my guess is that Kull and the other Cutthroats were lying in wait for anyone who passed by, and it was sheer coincidence that a BoT member happened to get caught. Also, Ruya wears a symbol of Talad, so it wasn't altogether out of the blue for Kull to suspect that she was BoT and confirm it by asking her. As Tessra pointed out, and as Kull offered to me in a /tell during the scene, Ruya could have gotten out of her predicament with a little quick thinking. OOCly it seemed sporting (also entertaining) to go along with it, and there were some IC reasons why she was too startled to put up any real defense even though she's quite a pious person.
I don't know Kull from Adam except for a handful of IC encounters, so I don't have any strong opinions about him either way, but I don't think the attack was OOC.
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I think we could resolve this by making me king of everything and offering the irishman.
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Why would we do that? This is not Crayonland...
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I'm accusing him of hypocrisy, self-praising, and just being a dick in general.
Sounds familiar.
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I think we could resolve this by making me king of everything and offering the irishman.
Has anyone started work on my scriptures yet?