PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Hipie_Froboz on January 19, 2011, 04:09:48 am
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A smith can make 55k a hour. They have no operating costs besides training and buying ore. They train two skills and stats usually. Metallurgy and Blacksmith. They easily max stats, and then can do whatever they want with the rest - like buying guildhouses.
It seems like a warrior can't make anything like 55k a hour unless they can kill really big/strong beasts. All I know is I can't kill really big/strong beasts. Even if we assume a warrior can make 55k a hour, lets look at the next part of the equation.
Now, consider a warrior's costs. They usually train at a minimum, 2 skills and then stats. Armor and Weapon. Many train three or more skills. I train Heavy Armor, Sword, and Shield handling. On top of this, I have to pay for Heavy Armor, Swords, shields, and maybe even a new helm soon. I usually have to mine to keep tria levels up.
This seems to be a big gap.
Is this balanced?
Discuss
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Well I made a farmer alt, he doesn't make any tria, as harvesting goods only gives you 2-15tria a crop depending on the type, let alone training as well. So that's unbalanced, really what we need to implement is a much better cooking system.
Selling higher quality food gives you the cooks more tria, higher you are in harvesting the higher quality your goods are. So the cooks want good quality resources which will give the harvesters a good reason for existence.
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There are more valuable plants, I believe up to 40 tria per piece are available. Still, it is little, true. But probably only because there is no use yet for any herbs, besides selling them. When Herbalism gets released, player prices paid by potion makers might develop.
Fish is even worse: No matter how rare or valuable the description is, they all sell for just 4 tria. And most can't be used in cooking yet.
Obviously the "Rules" department has available positions.
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Vaka im still a bit unclearn on the 'whats a decent ammount of tria' ratio, as the ammount that is decent IC'ly seems to be much much smaller then what everyone has.
My thinking is, generally here in the US you pay 50-80$ For an all you can eat buffet, for 4, assuming two parents two kids.
The food is always good, if your at a good buffet.
But when your at said buffet, you eat 2-3 plates of food, and desert.
This is somthing, that is not the most money gaining thing, realistically, its somthing you have to enjoy doing.
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Vaka im still a bit unclearn on the 'whats a decent ammount of tria' ratio, as the ammount that is decent IC'ly seems to be much much smaller then what everyone has.
My thinking is, generally here in the US you pay 50-80$ For an all you can eat buffet, for 4, assuming two parents two kids.
The food is always good, if your at a good buffet.
But when your at said buffet, you eat 2-3 plates of food, and desert.
This is somthing, that is not the most money gaining thing, realistically, its somthing you have to enjoy doing.
Hmmm and 5 kgs of iron probably wouldn't be worth more than $50-80 US.
Back in the medieval days food was worth far more than iron (for example), as food was always something someone needs. Blacksmiths were poor/unwealthy they did blacksmithing as a hobby or something they enjoy doing than for the money. Food however back then were hard to collect than these days, everything was organic as there were no chemicals (maybe very few chemicals) it also takes water to grow crops, which was also needed to drink. Farmers had to stand in the heat looking after the crops.
But for ratio probably around 100-400trias to an NPC at least, for crops used in cooking, then cooking be upped to the higher the quality the higher the value in trias.
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Hipie, one can easily make 55K an hour on hunting alone, but a good smith can make more than 55K in an hour. I don't do metallurgy or blacksmithing on Teshia. I hunt. And my favorite hunting ground is dead center of the arena, and not on a very tough opponent. I usually net between 45 and 65K per hour in tria, unnamed weapons and armor. You can also make almost as much hunting rogues. I was training all weapons btw, not just 3, so it can be done. You just have to be efficient.
I don't know if there is any programming reasoning behind this, but there does seem to be a pattern in loot rate. Some times are better than others for looting, and obviously.. don't sit there and compete with other players for the mobs.
Even basic BS and Met skill though can give much higher, as well as much more predictable profits. I do BS on my alt. I don't have to worry about the stock never making it to 300q. Eventually, it will get there. There can be slumps in hunting, where you may only loot one out of ten times... I suppose the inevitability is one of the main differences, you are eventually guaranteed the profit from metallurgy.
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you can have just as much bad luck with metallurgy (a lot turning to dust/sludge), you can have while looting, however for looting it's mostly killing the "right" things. 50k/h isn't that hard - even on low levels. on high levels it's mostly being a little lucky and getting something really valueable (looted weapons may be worth up to over 100k a piece), so yeah - somewhat less predictable, but still quite profitable in the end.
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~1 minute to get 1 super heated bronze stock. Another minute to hammer it. 15 stocks @300Q = 510 circles. 4-5 turns hammering
15*2*5=150 minutes, 2 ½ hours
510*250=127,500 trias.
127,500/2= 63,750 trias.
No, we can make more than 55k :P
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Mishka you are missing something very important in your calculations. What about the time it takes to mine your ores. You have to include time to travel to the mine/mines, mine your ores and then transport your ores back to the smith shop and then smelt your ores into the initial stocks in your per hour calculations.
If you don't mine but buy your ores instead then you need to subtract the amount you pay for your ores and then again include the time you spend smelting in order to come up with a proper per hour calculation on what you make as a profit. With the right situation ( like starting with stocks of 260Q) I can hammer 30 to 35 300Q stocks of bronze in an hour. This works out to 255,150 to 297,675 worth of trias produced in an hour but that doesn't mean that is my profit for that hour
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Please remember: It is a game. ;)
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
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But it's from Hangatyr! Not just a name -- a brand! That's like ... he, it's an Apple! ;)
But true ... the market for "average quality" items is a little smaller than the one for "yet another perfect weapon".
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Or you could use the weapons you loot along the way which I believe cost you nothing.
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A lot of the bigger stuff I kill, I can't kill with loot q weapons. I doubt I can kill cutthroats with loot quality swords, really doubt I can kill riverlings.
Edit: No way I can kill Velnishi with loot q weapons, I have enough trouble with thme right now.
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Psst Hipie Velnishi are not very good in terms of the loot they drop. There are much easier things that you can kill that are much better in terms of the value of loot they drop. Both of the examples you gave I'd consider to be poor mobs in terms of valuable drops. Also as someone who has concentrated in melee I"d point out your hands are free weapons that never go down in terms of Q and when I reached the old max in melee I was using Riverlings for training.
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
well the fact a player can sell the swords overpriced compared to other players doesn't mean that sword cost is per se as high as that :)
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Well, yet another point.
When a auction is announced, does everyone run off to loot creatures? no, they go to the mines. No, they go to the forges.
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Some people in TAO sold items they had either looted or gotten form quests as part of raising trias for the house auction. How you go about raising trias depends on what your skills are. If you have no mining skills and not met skills and not blacksmith skill then gong to the furnace to earn trias isn't going to work out very well. If your main skills are hunting then probably best to hunt a lot and maybe you will score some high value loot which then can be sold to rains a lot of trias. Yes if you have a high enough met skill and blacksmith skill then met is probably the more consistent way to make lots of trias. but as I said that depends on having good mining skills, good smelting skills and good blacksmith skills now. It takes longer to train up the met and blacksmith skills than it takes to train the weapon and armor skills. For example to get my last level in Blacksmith it took 5 hours of grinding. IN that same time I could have gotten a lot of levels of armor or a few levels in sword and put in less effort than it took to get the Blacksmith level
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Let's just compare mining and hunting: I have two alts, one is at level 10 in mining and basically get an ore each time he tries (I know the so called 'hot spots', though. And they sure are real!). The other is a hunter; he knows how to use a club, wear armor plates and protect himself with a shield, and that's it. Also he can repair his equipment.
I think the time it took to raise mining at ten is quite equivalent to the time it takes to raise a weapon skill up to, let's say, between 35 and 50.
So mining an ore takes five seconds, considering you dig one out the most often, let's say in ten minutes you can dig 75 ores (you have to move, rest some time and such) with a bit of luck.
A weapon skill of 40 let you kill tlokes fairly easily. You got an average of one tloke bit out of three kills, I believe. Let's say it takes 10 seconds to kill one. You got like 30 loots in ten minutes.
Depending on what you dig, mining makes more money (some people pay 300 Trias for a tin ore!), not even smelting your ores! Plus when you hunt you have to repair your equipment, and you have to stop to heal (then you loose time or money, depending on the fact you use healing device or not).
So yeah, hunting does make less money than other trades (not including cooking (by the way, why is a healing potion more expensive than Q200 food??) of course).
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Thanks for some support Tzarhunt
I'd train repair, but I'm trying to keep my tria level steady. and every repair? costs 100 tria.why can't repair kits be reusualable at least?
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
It depends on type of sword, the crafter, and magical properties.
I personally buy everything from Leraider, but thats besides the point
i had some 300Q claymores that I bought for around 40k back in 4.03
I had them stored, since I never used them, and I sold them, for the auctions...
Which brings me to my personaly opinion on selling weapons.
The price those claymores sold for to an NPC would have been around 75k each, but when you are taking items out of storage, it shows you the price, you would have to buy them for, its a glitch mabey, but if you bought said 300Q's it would have costed around 85-90k and so thats what i sold them for. gotaround 170-180k for the pair People who sell for less then that, yay invest in them, lol, people who sell for more, well, screw that
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So mining an ore takes five seconds, considering you dig one out the most often, let's say in ten minutes you can dig 75 ores (you have to move, rest some time and such) with a bit of luck.
A weapon skill of 40 let you kill tlokes fairly easily. You got an average of one tloke bit out of three kills, I believe. Let's say it takes 10 seconds to kill one. You got like 30 loots in ten minutes.
you're mining 400 ores per hour? we are playing different games :D
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Or someone is secretly using a mining machine ;D
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One problem with his calculations is it takes 10 seconds per mining attempt. Then after you get an ore generally it takes a couple of seconds to move to your new location so figure you can't get ores faster than say one every 12 seconds. That is if you are on a hot spot and are getting an ore almost every attempt.
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People also pay 400/tin or copper, not 300. :P
And if one has a higher level of weapon... tlokes are a one-hit kill, so no more than 5 seconds to kill and loot.
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
HOLY WHAT! What on yliakums kind of sword is that, that I'd never buy from him? I tend to just buy of Xarock give yourself a week and he'll have something cheap. Or Gova he can do Sabres last time I saw him and not expensive too ;)
@Earowo I've paid 25k for a pair of claymores :) still have them and they're still at 300Q last time I played.
About 6 months ago I could get 65 ores in about 45-60mins per character depending on my luck and if I was concentrating. I could manage running two alts getting around 120-140 an hour. So not that bad I suppose considering I was not boting. But I think they really need to have a big discussion about this because it really needs some work, not just the mining-metallurgy-blcksmithing but also Harvesting/Fishing-Cooking.
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People also pay 400/tin or copper, not 300. :P
And if one has a higher level of weapon... tlokes are a one-hit kill, so no more than 5 seconds to kill and loot.
...and 10 seconds looking around, waiting for respawning after the slaughter.
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Well, my maths was wrong indeed, but my point remains valid with the numbers that was given.
I did a test today; My hunter (who is now lvl60 in mace & hammer) went on a tloke-killing spree (using two regular warclubs). In 10 minutes, I managed to loot 14 bits (though I'm pretty sure I usually get a bit more).
Then I went mining copper with my other character (still lvl10 mining) and get 34 ores.
Well, even selling the ores to regular NPC merchants, it makes more money, even if not much more. And it took way more time and money to have a weapon skill at 60 than mining at 10! And I don't even talk about the armor skill and basic stats training...
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
HOLY WHAT! What on yliakums kind of sword is that, that I'd never buy from him? I tend to just buy of Xarock give yourself a week and he'll have something cheap. Or Gova he can do Sabres last time I saw him and not expensive too ;)
@Earowo I've paid 25k for a pair of claymores :) still have them and they're still at 300Q last time I played.
About 6 months ago I could get 65 ores in about 45-60mins per character depending on my luck and if I was concentrating. I could manage running two alts getting around 120-140 an hour. So not that bad I suppose considering I was not boting. But I think they really need to have a big discussion about this because it really needs some work, not just the mining-metallurgy-blcksmithing but also Harvesting/Fishing-Cooking.
It's called golden engravings; thick blades, high quality. Rush up on your dwarven allies' history as crafters. :)
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I'd like to point out, though, that every now and then I read some posts asking more realism. Well, in RL professions *are* unbalanced. An artisan could surely be wealthier than a warrior in backgrounds like Yliakum. If my character choose to be a fighter, then he'll do so with RP reasons, living like a warrior. He'll follow his path no matter how much time it takes. And I'd like to hear the voices of alts ruthlessly enslaved to work in mines. I'm sure they even don't eat or sleep. ;)
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
Are you sure you haven't mixed trias/K's? ;D The most expensive set of weapons are clays that we sell for 280 circles which is not close to what you're talking about. Also consider the time a weapon smith invested in raising his skill to the point to be able to make those Q300 weapons. I play nearly 2 years now and trained only one type of weapon making and I'm nowhere close to make one at least in the "finest" range.
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Thanks BoevenF for that observation. Yes the reality is that some professions are going to pay better than others. Just look at the real world. Does working in a fast food restaurant pay as well as being an investment banker or a lawyer ? I can just see some people now OMG how come I'm not making $1,000 an hour flipping burgers like that fancy lawyer does?
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Hey look I've been mastering tabletop RPG for like eight years (and even had a short experience working with writers and editors) and I'm pretty sure realism is only a good idea until a certain point. It's sure quite lame but if you want a RPG to be enjoyable you have to sacrifice some roleplay to gameplay...
This said, I didn't mean to support that profession have to be balanced, it just made me quite angry that some people tend to say they are!
And by the way, only master smiths was rich, and all the others was to work for free to craft weapons for the armies, or really poorly paid to make wargear for mercenary parties.
How rich do you think a miner was?
Also Sarva it takes much more time to become a lawyer or an engineer than what it takes to be a waiter!
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This is not a game about middle age, and never will be. The settings are different, the history is different.
There are things possibly borrowed from our ancient history, but they must have their own development.
An artisan could surely be wealthier than a warrior in backgrounds like Yliakum
The realism I'm talking about, it's obviously proportionate to the settings of this game in particular, and every RPG needs flexible logic to be playable, being D&D, GURPS or whatever.
Edit: when, in a far future, my grandchildren will see the Version 1.0.0 ;D the game will be different from now, and so the gameplay and expanded backgrounds. For me that's a thrilling reason to stay here and participate, one step at a time.
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Alright, now that sounds convincing to me! What you talking about is more about coherence than realism then, I guess (though I'm not born anglophone but people always do this peculiar confusion in my language).
Well, still I would be glad to now why one can get such a price in a place where ore is that abundant!! I mean Iron is easier to come by than apples! (no agression here, I'm no background expert and really would like to know :))
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
Guess I have to set something clear!
Pal I don't know where you're getting this number from, but definitely not from Keella or me!
If you or someone else buys a sword of finest quality he/you will pay 15.625 trias for a single sword. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is way far from your mentioned 90k. Next time your are referencing me. make sure to talk to me at first!
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Here's another point. A sword costs 90k if you buy from Hangtyr. I don't, but a decent sword usually costs about 20k.
Guess I have to set something clear!
Pal I don't know where you're getting this number from, but definitely not from Keella or me!
If you or someone else buys a sword of finest quality he/you will pay 15.625 trias for a single sword. Nothing more, nothing less. Which is way far from your mentioned 90k. Next time your are referencing me. make sure to talk to me at first!
probably been fooled into paying the old prices by someone (as ~100k for a *pair* is what you payed for q300 sabre some years ago)
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I'm pretty sure the last time I asked... about a year ago, it was something ridicoulous like that
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i dunno, i've played this game for 2 years, the most a pair of sabres has ever costed me is 30k a pair