PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Cirerey on July 19, 2011, 03:40:12 pm
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Yet another Cirerey brain fart.
There is already guild banking. Guild storage would let guilds that don't have a guild house put items in that any (or selected) guild member could use. This would be a big help to smaller, newer guilds that don't have millions of tria to buy a guildhouse yet. Or who haven't had a chance to buy one - auctions don't happen every month. After all, these smaller guilds need to develop and support their players too. I don't know what the requirements are to implement something like this, or even if it is practical to extend the existing function in this way. I'm just tossing it out there to see what people think.
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couldn't hurt. even for guilds with houses, it's not always feasible to store large varieties of objects within the house. if it's possible, I think this is a good enough idea.
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Aye this is a good idea, would be good for guilds that collect certain items, like The Bloodstone Brethren collects stone items and The Way of the Hammer collects items of the hammer.
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Good idea!
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Aye this is a good idea, would be good for guilds that collect certain items, like The Bloodstone Brethren collects stone items and The Way of the Hammer collects items of the hammer.
I like the idea, plus you arent allowed to place a lot of items in a GH anyways according to what some GM said, i think Mara. Something about it slows down the server when they reset it.
Also if bloodstone collects stone weapons Trav's got one for you!
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Aye this is a good idea, would be good for guilds that collect certain items, like The Bloodstone Brethren collects stone items and The Way of the Hammer collects items of the hammer.
I like the idea, plus you arent allowed to place a lot of items in a GH anyways according to what some GM said, i think Mara. Something about it slows down the server when they reset it.
Also if bloodstone collects stone weapons Trav's got one for you!
it has the same issues of the gh so no it's not a solution. actually it's even worse
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My original thought was that it would be a way to make items easily available to other guild members. Loot a sword you don't need, put in in guild storage for a new member to pick up - that sort of thing. I understand item hoarding clutters the database and hurts performance. Would charging rent on storage, as a percentage of item value, help with the problem? Say 1% / month, drawn from the bank account (guild or personal) associated with the storage unit? If rent is unpaid, random items would be sold at NPC rates to pay the rent. I'd be willing to do that, and it makes sense. Where in the real world can you get commercial storage services for free? It would eventually clear out the storage of inactive players and declutter the database.
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it has the same issues of the gh so no it's not a solution. actually it's even worse
does it really make a difference where the item is stored? I mean, the item is going to be stored somewhere anyways, right? why not in a place accessible to all guild members?
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it has the same issues of the gh so no it's not a solution. actually it's even worse
does it really make a difference where the item is stored? I mean, the item is going to be stored somewhere anyways, right? why not in a place accessible to all guild members?
Because if you add this in as well, then you are basically doubling the amount of guild houses. I doubt that it would make there less items sitting in guild houses, so really it would be used for storage of useless unwanted items, instead of members just selling the items to NPCs or collectors.
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because it doubles the amount of items and it will be abused also by people without gh (don't say it won't i see how the actual storage system is used :P). additionally it would probably be loaded by the system and stay on the ram without limits (with the actual way it's done)
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I'm curious, what is considered abuse of the storage system currently, that you allude to Weltall? Is it just hanging on to too much stuff? Have I, for example, abused it unwittingly? I do not think I have but I haven't seen any rules posted anywhere, just vague guidelines.
Clarity would be appreciated.
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I'm curious, what is considered abuse of the storage system currently, that you allude to Weltall? Is it just hanging on to too much stuff? Have I, for example, abused it unwittingly? I do not think I have but I haven't seen any rules posted anywhere, just vague guidelines.
Clarity would be appreciated.
The definition of storage abuse is filling your storage with 500 apples just for fun.
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That is less than ten stacks of apples and would take less than an hour to turn into baked apples. Heck before I maxed out my stats I was processing 15 stacks of apple routinely just to practice baking skill and just out of my character inventory. Later on I went around and bought stacks of every food and food ingredient I could find to put in storage so that I would have them available without having to travel too far when I needed them. I have since pretty much abandoned cooking and cleaned most of those items out of my storage but that is beside the point.
I'll wait to hear something more official, thank you.
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I'm curious, what is considered abuse of the storage system currently, that you allude to Weltall? Is it just hanging on to too much stuff? Have I, for example, abused it unwittingly? I do not think I have but I haven't seen any rules posted anywhere, just vague guidelines.
Clarity would be appreciated.
I second that clarity is appreciated point. Well here is something, it's a bit off topic but anyways.
NOTICE!!!!
The ingame storage option is not limitless. Over-use/abuse of the storage system can cause system malfunctions that result in loss of items on the over users account. How many items can be stored per category can vary based on the programming traits of each item, the limit is 64kb. In addition, this does cause everyone's ability to login to be slowed. Please remember that this is a community game, not a 'me' game.
Please do not come to the GMs and the devs and ask for a specific number about how many items can be stored per category. The number is variable based on the individual items that are already stored.
I will note that stackable items of 64 units counts as 1 item in the storage option.
Please do not come to the GM team and ask us to respawn an item that you lost because you exceeded the limits of the storage option. You have been warned.
Weltall has asked me to remind you all that the storage unit is not a garbage bin or a litter box. If you do not amass items, then you will not have a problem with the limits of the storage option.
For those of you that are crafters: Be mindful of how many items you sell per week and per month (including market days) that will give you the idea of how many you should keep in storage.
Well this is helpful... really it isn't. (Are you meaning 65 items stacked or 64? or what?. What does "Amass items" mean?)
What we really need to know is what is the average amount of kb an item of that category is, or what is the average amount of items storable per category or whatever.
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Vakachek, some gm told me a while back the space an item takes up is based on how long its name is, now idk if thats true, but it would mean the stack ammount doesnt matter, if its from 1 to 64.
it has the same issues of the gh so no it's not a solution. actually it's even worse
does it really make a difference where the item is stored? I mean, the item is going to be stored somewhere anyways, right? why not in a place accessible to all guild members?
That is not true, giving people the option to toss an item they dont want into guild sotrage would do a hell of a lot more than just double the space items are taking, the majority of looted items are sold to npcs. Like mabey 70%. When an item is sold to an npc, I would assume that specific item is wiped from the system, since you obviously cant buy it back.
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Vakachek, some gm told me a while back the space an item takes up is based on how long its name is, now idk if thats true, but it would mean the stack ammount doesnt matter, if its from 1 to 64.
So stacking 65 items isn't the same as 1-64?
Yes but the issue is, is that we have a limit on how many kbs (in memory) we can use but we have no idea as to what amount of memory an item would use. Yes they said it depends on the items programming traits. If we get told an average for an item's memory in every category then I'm sure I'd understand, and probably everyone else would too.
I'm guessing it's more than just the name, but 2D artwork, buffs (not too sure, that might only pick up when drawn), information (like weight, size, attack delay, category, etc).
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It sounds to me like an item in storage is a name and a number. The storage itself is a table with two fields corresponding to the name and the amount. The amount is likely a short integer of some type being in the range from 1-65, possibly enumerated item 0-64 hence the 64 from the quote. The name field is likely some kind of text field with some kind of character limit sufficient for any type of item available in the game. I suspect the biggest thing you could put in storage would be some book with a very long name but that is speculation like all the rest of this post. The storage table itself is likely constrained to a maximum byte limit. once you reach that limit things get lost, although I think it ought to be possible to program an error handler that would prevent any extra data to be entered.
Still to get back to the thread having a separate guild storage would likely entail having another table with its own reserved memory space, although it might be possible to somehow treat a guild as just another character instance. It would still add extra space requirements.
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like storing each item possible coming from npc or each version from 10 q to 300 q of a crafted item. these are abuses. storing 500 apples in stack of 65 don't take much storing 65 different items because of a q difference is definitely an abuse.
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Thank you Weltall.
It sounds like I was indeed guilty of some abuse when I used it to stock my larder. Good thing I decided to give up cooking. I will go through the junk I have left and sell off all the various fishes I have caught, all the plants and plant parts I have no real use for any more, and stack all my unfinished craft components so as to take fewer slots in storage.
I guess this means that collector characters are not a viable Role Play option unless you have a guild hall somewhere to stash your trash because using storage to maintain an example of each unique type of looted weapon is not significantly different from either the two types of abuses you have listed. I may possibly be extending the examples improperly.
I am guessing that your examples are meant for hoarding, i.e. if I am working a bunch of swords and decide to do something else I am free to stick them in storage as is, unaveraged as long as I intend to continue working on them in the not too distant future. Personally, I do not sell my crafts on the player market so having more than a few completed items of varying quality is unnecessary -- especially as I normally do not need to finish any particular piece while I am still practicing my craft. Raw Materials I usually stack and average keeping only the q300s separate.
But I am rambling now.
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Exactly hoarding we had people using more than 64kb in a single category.
that's not *normal*
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The networking code is not able to handle more than 64 KB of data in one packet; the content of one item category is handled in a whole packet. I remember a rough estimate of about 1000 units, depending on the length of the titles and the amount of identifying attributes per unit.
Stacking groups of qualities to an average, as bilbous describes, is certainly a valid approach. Documenting the exact quality ranges per verbal description might help (e.g. which min-max range is "extraordinary"?).
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I suppose if you made all the weapons into one catagory like it used to be, people wouldnt be ablle to hoard them as much
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Collecting rare weapons is not wrong. Storing a stock for crafting or markets neither.
In responsible dimensions. After all, it is just a game. Fame is evanescent.
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I suppose if you made all the weapons into one catagory like it used to be, people wouldnt be ablle to hoard them as much
But then the issue would be more worse.
What the storage system needs is a bar and/or percentage box added to the storage window, to see how full your storage is.
I still don't have my answer: Does storing 64 stacked items take up less memory/will it be better than storing 65 stacked items?
Or did I read Daxa's post wrong, I will note that stackable items of 64 units counts as 1 item in the storage option.
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I suppose if you made all the weapons into one catagory like it used to be, people wouldnt be ablle to hoard them as much
But then the issue would be more worse.
That is wrong, If weapons were made back to a single catagory, it would be able to hold only as much as any other catagory, so it would be easier to run out of space, point being, this would obligate people to collect only the weapons they 'need' instead of what they 'want'
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Stacking items takes less memory, and less of the packet that can be transmitted form the server to your client, than unstacked items. It takes less room to say iron ore once than it does to say iron ore 65 times when sending the info about what is in your storage from the server to your client.
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right, the issue with weapons however, is you have a million of each kind, its randomly generated as [material] [weapon] [magic effect] as the most rare it can get, and since these are randomly generated, besides the weapon itself, people collect everything and anything that is different from say a Longsword. This is wear all the sapce is taken up, if the catagories are combined and people are keeping only what they need, they will only keep the rarest weapons that they plan to sell or use.