PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Knightspark9 on February 28, 2012, 07:54:40 pm
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I've noticed that the community prefers role-plays where there's fighting, kidnapping, etc, etc. But we seem to be forgetting something important: Where are the casual role-plays? It only makes sense that Hydlaa would be busy. But most of the time, you only see people either at the forge, or just not in the settlements at all. This makes little to no sense. For the sake of quality role-play. Please, please, just try and do something casual. Your character could be in a tavern after a hard day at work.
Frankly, many role-plays and characters have become cliche. There's that, 'stereotypical evil mage,' the 'Evildoers be vanquished,' and the classical Mary sue. There's the, 'I'm a mage/scholar,' character, and the list goes on.
My point is, is that we need to branch out and try some casual role-play. Maybe your character can partake in some town gossip, join in a cooking fair, maybe an engineer, etc. Not every character has to be a fighter. In fact, many people would probably be average. You, the person who's reading this. I bet you've been in more then two fighting/kidnapping role-plays in a year. But tell me, when is the time that your character had a time to relax at a tavern, joined in something that had little to do with combat, or did anything casual?
We need to branch out; not simply doing fighting role-plays, or being in a hot-spot for minerals or mob areas while grinding skills. What would be wonderful, is that we should be able to do some casual role-play. I tried in the past to work on some events; ie, 'Brewfest/feast,' where people could show off their brews, etc, etc. The sad thing? Only about seven people showed.
Your character could be a fighter, but lets be honest. They need to have breaks sometime, right? Most of the time, Hydlaa's a ghost-town apart from the occasional questing player who passes by, or, as mentioned earlier, the grinding smithy's. Ojaveda's even worse, with only a few people passing by, if at all. Gugrontid is even more deserted then Ojaveda. The bronze doors? Please, only questers come there. Occasionally you'll find some role-play. Occasionally.
Third times the charm; we need to branch out. Try different styles of role-play apart from the common kidnapping.
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I'll agree with you up to the point where you say there is a lack of this. Casual conversation is the prevalent role-play available.
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I see, and do, way more sitting around and chatting than PVP or RP fighting.
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This topic has appeared from several people again and again over the time. And not only in the forum but also in the game in ooc channells, probably in irc too.
Yes, you are right, and its a very good thing you take the time to mention all this once more, mostly for the newer roleplayers because they also need to know.
Personally I enjoy rps with fights very much, and there have even been times I found any other type of rp pointless. What's so exciting about acting how you are talking in the street or drinking a beer that you can't taste yourself anyway?
Guess what... for a new roleplayer the answer is nothing. What's exciting is huge fights with explosions of energy, flying daggers, blazing fireballs and roundhouse kicks. And after that it all gets in the usual way things happen. An evil character (a brute or a mage? evil mages are more sinister...) a cause for a fight (how can I make them come after me? lets kidnap someone!) and a final fight where everyone whips out their swords or their magic, they get wounded but in the end the bad wizard is defeated and everyone goes to the healer to treat their wounds. And that's the best case of course, because quite often someone sees the suspicious mage planning the kidnapping and decides to save the world and kill him. Or they just bash him at the final fight with their maxed trained skills and a flood of god-modding...
Anyone that has been here for a year knows what I'm talking about. I have participated and even organized such rps myself more than once. I also have an evil mage character that kidnaps people and slowly kills them till their friends come to save them. The point is you cannot avoid such things. Its what inexperienced roleplayers find exciting and they need to play and experiment on these because that's what's fun. I say that having been a standard happy noob-rp-destroyer myself and while I'm still not as experienced as I would like.
I'm not saying casual roleplay can't be more exciting than a fight scene, quite the opposite. For many new players its just harder to practice because there is no great event to stimulate a reaction from the characters. Even when people do play a casual scene in a tavern or the street there is always a chance things will turn to violence in an attempt to have something interesting happen.
I do such mistakes myself even today. But its just mistakes we all have to accept because there is no other way to go. It takes skill to make a fun situation out of something usual. But at the same time there is no better way to hone your skill in roleplaying than staying and playing in character in any given situation. A very skilled RPer can have fun with any situation. As long as we are not though we'll need to allow to this "kindergarden" situation to exist :P
What I have to say is we shouldn't scowl upon players that prefer fights. We should only mind when they play them badly. Any RPer that wishes to evolve and become better will eventually do so, they will read the settings of the world, they will try playing in diverse situations and will try to get into their character as deep as possible. So for any oldbie instead of complaining abut the bad rps the best would be to give those people a hand by playing with them and stay in character no matter what. For example, your clumsy and eccentric Adroin would have a lot to teach to any new player that tries to play Rambo, and I'm sure he does ;)
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Well the first thing people have to know is that casual doesn't always mean ordinary. Every now and then, a good ol' stack of dropped dishes, and a pile of complaints are enough to spark some real interest. Some of my favorite RPs involve just sitting around a camp fire with some food, exchanging stories about seemingly normal things. Like getting lost in Hydlaa or something. When there is a good plot going on, its okay, but if there is a good plot going on with characters who are believable then its great. And characters can't be believable if they can't sit down and enjoy a meal with friends.
Sometimes when you just meet someone in a tavern, there isn't as much obvious things to do as there would be in an action packed RP. But if one was to just look a little deeper then they would find a wellspring of fun, material to use. Descriptions are good ways to find some way to start a conversation. Even a simple "Hey I like your shirt, where did you get it?" makes for more fun then any fight could ever achieve.
Oh, and if anyone is looking for a nice, intresting casual RP, check the Stonehead Tavern in Gugrontid. If I'm around I'll most likely be there taking orders, and cooking food. We also have our own Kikiri.
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I can't fully agree, because actually, my main char is a simple citizen of Hydlaa and I mostly do casual RP.
I would join a longer RP though if it isn't the usual murder or <insert a random world shakening something> RP and if I stumble across one ;)
Until then that char is just living his life in Yliakum.
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@Chessire: Zalya summed up the words relatively nicely. About the kindergarten stage, well, some people have been in the kindergarten stage too long.
@Sen: There are some decent story-lines around. Mariana is a perfect example of the person who is not cliche and does some role-plays that seem abnormal to the common person. She comes up with interesting plots, Some death involved, some torture of the mind, etc. She knows when it's time to take a break as well. So, I think we, and those in the kindergarten stage, could learn something from Mariana.
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Casual rp is cliche too, so there.
I think the issue is that there are very few role players on at any given time. As a result your angst-driven, moronic, skull bashing crowd is too close to your girly tea sipping crowd and so on. (That crowd includes your goodies with a well hidden baddie bad side xD)
With a larger population, I think we might see more players clumping together into groups with similar interests. That would lead to fewer goodie two-shoes players bitching about how unoriginal the baddies are, and fewer baddies wanting to piss all over the tea and doily extravaganzas.
Just my two cents.. ;)
Oh, and Whisper Bless!
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@Rigwyn: I never said that battle-driven role-play was cliche; I said that some characters are pretty cliche, and that many role-plays driven around it are cliche. The reason, I believe, is because of how many newer players want to see the action, with swords, etc, etc. That's why I'm suggesting that those people should branch out. I'm all and good for a battle-roleplay, but often, it's overused.
Casual role-play is the much needed backbone of this game. It can lead to bigger role-play, possibly combat, possibly more conversation. With a good mix of the two, despite alignment, (I'm pretty sure bad guys need to relax too, right?) we can have a well thought out balance.
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I'd like to leave a comment, but I'll admit to skimming the thread as... to be frank, I've read this kind of argument enough times to recognize the underlying structure. ;)
Zalya is right, a casual rp isn't just sitting around being boring because you can't think of anything else to do in that context. I'm afraid many think just talking about the most pointless things is "normal character" RP, no offense. While a good a conversation can be riveting, most conversations, not all, I've had in PS recently where strained, not very imaginative and showed no evidence of the character's personality... i.e. why people are not inclined to bother anymore. It would help if people tried giving more facets to their characters. They don't have to blend seemlessly into every setting, some might be downright awkward, but work on what they are like outside of their main context. Some players have done that very well.
Knightspark9 is right, people need to branch out. The problem is that a lot of characters are created for a specific niche and they have no identity outside of that. The evil mage does not go home and become a devoted family man, and yes it can happen. Evil is subjective, that is called character development. ;)
This issue in turns leads to the same kinds of RPs over and over. What else can one do with a character that only has one context? Nothing. The only reason I could spend 8 hours in game, in the past, and never leave the tavern was because the tavern was full or at least had a few very interesting characters, with a variety of perspectives, and they were fun to watch. It wasn't mindlessly discussing the weather, it was watching one character's quirks ricochet off of another character's quirks.
Perhaps this may be of help in the future
Character Context Check
Use this checklist to look for places where your character would be unable do more than just stand there. When you find a place, work on a response that would be unique to your character or at the very least would reflect the characters personality or motivations. Admittedly, some of these situations may never happen in RP but they might be referenced, so it is a good idea to think about them just the same. Obviously, this is no a comprehensive list but it does cover a lot of things
How does your character react...
(Il)Legalities:
[ ] When being robbed
[ ] When being asked to participate in illegal activities
[ ] When being asked by the guards to assist in an investigation
[ ] When actually doing something illegal (willing/unwilling/aware of wrongness/not aware)
[ ] When being caught (by civilian/by guard)
[ ] When cornered by a vigilante mob
[ ] When cornered by a thug mob
[ ] When knowingly trespassing in various places (seedy places/official places/privately owned places)
[ ] When standing trial in the courthouse
[ ] When forced to choose between saving someone dear to the character or following the law
[ ] When a friend is arrested (wrongly arrested/justifiably arrested)
[ ] When a child does something illegal
In and Around Town:
[ ] When they find themselves in a library or place of learning
[ ] When they find themselves in a temple or place of worship
[ ] When they find themselves in a legal building
[ ] When they find themselves in a social gathering spot
[ ] When they find themselves in a quiet place
[ ] When they find themselves in a field or in nature
[ ] When they find themselves alone
[ ] When they find themselves in a market or place of business
[ ] When they find themselves in a hospital(like place) or place of healing
[ ] When they find themselves in an arena or place of combat
[ ] When they find themselves in a secret place
[ ] When they find themselves in a large city
[ ] When they find themselves in a small town
[ ] When they find themselves in a place with mostly one race (opposite of their own/ same as their own)
[ ] When they find themselves in a place with many races
[ ] When they find themselves in a place where they are easily ignored
[ ] When they find themselves in a place where they are noticed by everyone (positive attention/negative attention)
Character to Character Interactions
[ ] When your character meets a former friend or enemy
[ ] When your character meets a former or current lover
[ ] When your character meets a passing acquaintance
[ ] When your character meets a person of unclear relationship status (are you or aren't you on good terms)
[ ] When your character meets somone that tried to kill them
[ ] When your character meets somone that they are attracted too
[ ] When your character meets somone that they are repulsed by
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be very honest(ICly)
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be very dishonest(ICly)
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a criminal(ICly)
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be connected with the legal system(ICly)
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a vigilante
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a victim
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a merchant
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a craftsmen
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a vagrant
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be a drunk
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be high strung
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be very relaxed
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be "weird"
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to be from another part of Yliakum
[ ] When your character meets somone that is known to talk about OOC things ICly
[ ] When your character meets somone that claims to be very powerful (fighter/mage/misc)
[ ] When your character meets somone that claims to be very rich
[ ] When your character meets somone that claims to be from outside of Yliakum
Character Expression
note: A situation may call for a certain response but that doesn't mean that your character has to follow the script
[ ] When your character is expected to be sad at someone's death
[ ] When your character is expected to be happy about an event in another character's life
[ ] When your character is expected to disapprove of illegal or dark matters
[ ] When your character is expected to approves of legal matters or moral
[ ] When your character is expected to take the lead
[ ] When your character is expected to follow willingly
[ ] When your character is expected to back off
[ ] When your character is expected to do something that the character can't actually do
[ ] When your character is expected to do a favor
[ ] When your character is expected to drop everything
[ ] When your character is expected to be surprised
[ ] When your character is expected to be shocked
[ ] When your character is expected to be gentle
[ ] When your character is expected to be understanding
[ ] When your character is expected to be tender
[ ] When your character is expected to be affectionate
[ ] When your character is expected to be stern
[ ] When your character is expected to be mean
[ ] When your character is expected to be dishonest
[ ] When your character is expected to be honest
[ ] When your character is expected to be thoughtful
[ ] When your character is expected to leap without looking
[ ] When your character is expected to be dumb
[ ] When your character is expected to be intelligent
[ ] When your character is expected to be happy
[ ] When your character is expected to conform
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In my experience casual roleplay is the most common one I played, even if I am eager to play battles of sort (and that was quite uncommon to find - maybe my fault), I know many RPs that are open to casual RP or even lives for them ;)
Just to mention some places: the RCD (when it is opened) is a place where casual RP is played all the times, Kada-el as well
Just to mention some character: Mariana, Telena and more are used to do such type of RP
However I agree that a small player base prevent this kind of RP to be available at all the times in every timezone
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Didn't read the thread at all.
Casual RP is godamn boring. I've had more than my fair share of it, as anyone who's been ingame with me is aware. The obnoxious amount of casual is why I quit. Why would I sit around ingame chatting idly to people. I can do that in real life, and that'll get me real friends that I can do real things with like bowling, or magic the gathering, or drugs. If I'm playing a fantasy roleplaying game, I had better be roleplaying some godamn fantasy.
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Hey guys.
I have this amazing, revolutionary, awe-inspiring idea.
Why not stop whining about what kind of RP is available/prevalent, get in-game, and try some roleplay that would interest you - be it casual, violent, or somewhere in-between?
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+1
Thats the only way to fix the community - attraction.
People will stick around and play if its fun. ( regardless of how you define fun )
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No offense but if that was going to work it would have worked the last 50 million times someone suggested it and someone else tried it. ;) Drastic times call for drastic measures. However, I will be the first to say I am fresh out of new ideas.
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bring back the girl with the supernatural halitosis from the silver mine.
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Eldemar was a girl?!
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I think Rigwyn said it best:
Casual rp is cliche too, so there.
I think the issue is that there are very few role players on at any given time. As a result your angst-driven, moronic, skull bashing crowd is too close to your girly tea sipping crowd and so on. (That crowd includes your goodies with a well hidden baddie bad side xD)
With a larger population, I think we might see more players clumping together into groups with similar interests. That would lead to fewer goodie two-shoes players bitching about how unoriginal the baddies are, and fewer baddies wanting to piss all over the tea and doily extravaganzas.
I've been RPing for like 12 years, and I'm just going to say things that have already been said:
- Be the change you want to see. Fact is: people that RP like RP. Any RP. Sit in the tavern and wait for someone to drop in, greet people IC when you see them. Things like that.
- "Casual RP" or "BaRP" (Bar + RP) as me and my friends used to call it important for character development and the creation and sustaining of inter-character relationships and often the progression of the details of plots.
- The fact of the matter is that RP, as it has always been, is about creative interactive storytelling. And a story doesn't happen without a plot. That's where we get our evil mages and hidden baddies. Without a central plot or some problem to overcome, there's no struggle to be had, and things quickly become stale as all RP is reduced to stagnant, pointless BaRP and rampant ERP.
- There needs to be a balance of BaRP and plot-based RP, and you'll almost always see an increase in one if you see an increase in the other.
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I would mostly agree except for one thing. Conflict/struggle does not equal fighting or trying to nab each other, it's two possible sources. I had plenty of "bar-RP" that had conflict and struggle that didn't necessarily include anything physical. All you need for conflict is a conflict of interests. Even physical danger isn't the only prompt for that.
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An interesting topic, one that I have varying viewpoints on. In a way I agree with ebonwoman's statement; chatty RP that is too casual I can do in the real world, and thus my interest in it is slightly diminished. However, that is not to say that conversational RP is negative in all cases. I've had my fair share of more intriguing conversations, which usually involve something deeper. Things like;
/me looks down, back up again, chagrin evident on her features. Her eyes take on a glassy appeal, the sorrow in them coming into sharp focus. By some form of inner resolve, she snaps them shut and takes a deep, meditative breath, opening them only when the cap on her emotions has been screwed tightly back into place, and looks up at her interrogator's eyes fearlessly. "That is not necessary for you to know."
If you're talking to someone about their past, about something they have experienced lately that you would typically not come into contact with in the real world, then certainly it is intriguing in its novelty. It's basically the difference between chatting about shoes and having a deep philosophical conversation with someone. The prior will never hold my attention, I'd sooner beat my head against a wall. The latter, however, is fascinating.
That said, I've had my fair share of RP which was far too casual. I do not want to talk about clothing. I could care less what your character's favorite type of food is. Sitting around in the tavern staring at each other and saying "how was your day?" in between dozens and dozens of /me takes a drink of red is enough to drive me insane.
I suppose what it all really comes down to is depth. Doesn't matter if the Role Play is "quote" casual "unquote." Can you hold my interest, and can I return the favor and do the same for you? Are you able to feel what your character is feeling? Is the exchange full of some sort of feeling, or is it hollow? Hollowness is possible in both role play chatting and villainy. If your villain is evil "just cuz" and can shoot lasers from his/her eyes to smite everyone, then please, stop reading so many comic books. If, however, your villain has a speckled past of abuse, neglect, or just running with the wrong crowed and getting into trouble, it's far more interesting. Can I feel empathy for your villain? Does the villain's viewpoint about what they are doing make sense? Even better! Is the villain realistic? Most "evil" people do not truly see themselves as sadistic. Hitler didn't think he was bad, but was he? Hell yes. I doubt anyone could argue otherwise. Same with Stalin, pillaging vikings, the Huns, take your pick.
Also, vary up your role plays and break out of the "strictly evil" and "strictly good" catagories. The world is rarely truly painted in black and white. Why should your role play be any different? They say the winner writes the history of a conflict. But that doesn't mean that they were a group of morally perfect individuals. Give them flaws, skew their reasoning, twist their motivations. Corruption is a wonderful thing to role play, salvation from that corruption even more so. Marsuveus is a good example of this idea, for instance. Even though he was wicked and did not deserve grace, Teshia didn't give up on him ICly. She didn't run at him with swords waving and banners flying. And thus, the role play developed on a deeper level than hacking at one another to see who could sever more limbs.
At the conclusion of this ramble (which will probably be skipped over as tldr for most;)) Basically I'm just saying that any type of role play can be considered mature. Not just sitting around chattering by a fire. Both groups can have duds and successes. Pointing fingers and accusing one of being lesser or greater than the other really doesn't achieve much of anything. Learn, grow from each other, and develop things to see where they go. Don't block off an entire crowd just because they like a certain genre better than another. For one, there are too few people here to do that. Just go with the flow, and the back and forth will almost always result in an enjoyable exchange for either party, regardless of what it is they find most diverting.
One last statement:
So, I think we, and those in the kindergarten stage, could learn something from Mariana.
I'm flattered, but I'd like to point out that my actual role play experience doesn't exceed one year. There are dozens of role players who are far better than I, and who can mold a story that interests larger groups of people. We're all in kindergarten, and I'm just coming out of preschool ;) The only way we experience growth is to be open-minded, and to learn new methods from each other.
An example of such an RPer would of course be Rigwyn. His work is very inclusive, and very interesting, without cliche. If you haven't looked into his thread, I'd highly recommend it:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=40558.msg456897;boardseen#new
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Bla bla bla bla! Look at your posts, go back in time, look at other people's post complaining about RP. That's it, they're the same. EXACTLY the same. Every year the same stuff. Do you think it's going to change because you're rambling about it on a forum? Crass error.
Look, I play Mishka, that overpowered warlock fenki (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue) skilled in everything and whatnot. But kidnapping, torturing, etc... those RPs ended up getting boring to me. Sure, I do enjoy the occasional fight, but I'd rather Mishy slaps your char now because you were too cheeky or he pinched her butt, than just try to make him a puddle of blood, guts and other stuff you didn't know your char had. I have normal characters as well. I have a megalomaniac merchant menki, ruthless, Godfather-like all around. I have a fenki with very few friends -she pushed them away and now regrets not being able to get them back- and taking care of a little girl on her own, slowly building up a slight depression. My healer character just went to the Octarch's office to get divorced because her husband is missing so she can be with that cute menki whose arm she healed a while back. That gay, lonely menki now found someone to cuddle with.
Someone mentioned, be the change you want to see. Well, that's what I'm doing. I'm not talking about making PS a dull, boring copy of RL with anthro cats, winged lizards and talking rocks. But, hell, I would love to see "Friends" happening in PS, if you know what I mean. Or RP's like Rigwyn's. I think the world needs more people like Riggy-Wiggy.
[/me=MishkaL1138]declares himself the president of the newly created Rigwyn's Fanclub[/url]
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I've read all this thread. I like to read.
That being said, think of the game as an ongoing, live, multiplayer narrative (cuz you should). Any work of fiction worth a damn is going to have a balance of dialogue and action. Think of the author tracts in an Ayn Rand, Orson Scott Card, or Robert A. Heinlein novel. Atlas Shrugged weighs one metric ton and is mostly dialogue, real, intense dialogue, but there's plenty of action, romance and adventure peppered throughout to give it some plot. Heck, the heroine [Spoiler Alert!] even shoots some mook dead just cuz he's a spineless goon who doesn't share her sense of moral fortitude.
Heck, even the Bhagavad Gita is two dudes on a chariot overlooking a massive epic battlefield telling each other stories and coming to the conclusion that hey, I'm God, and you're God, and He is I and I am Him, and I am the Walrus, and it's ok that you're about to slaughter an army of your own brothers and uncles and cousins and teachers, because they're all God too and it's all just an integral thread in the cloth that is existence. Do we ever get to see the battle? Nerp.
This (http://youtu.be/mZNLlql7bpA) is my favorite scene ever from the show to end all shows.
(This (http://youtu.be/blBDxrxWqyY) is a close second.)
Now, there's PLENTY of gunfights, chases through the jungle, and pillars of black smoke ripping people to shreds in that show, but it's the dialogue (and the time travel) which makes it brilliant.
As a Xiosian priestess, let me tell you, it's all about balance.
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That's probably the best way to put it. PS has seriously lost its RP balance. It doesn't have the diversity it used to have.
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I like Illysia's "Character context check". I haven't been as systematic about it but I have ended up answering all the questions on it to myself. Sometimes not with simple answers. For example: my main character is not generally comfortable with the thought of being a snoop, but had enough of a grudge against Thorian Gronk over his overpriced cutlery to make an exception.
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Hmm, for the most part, I agree with a lot of what has been said here; be the RP you want to see, balance, etc. I strongly agree with Illysia's character development. Minor, casual RPs offer a chance to truly develop a character, beyond that of fights, brawls, kidnappings. It's not cliche when the log-in screen tells us that our characters should change. They should. And it's not just fights and big events that change people. Everyday life changes people. Give yourself a chance to show it.