Quote from: Raxuss on November 07, 2013, 09:54:08 am

And I already said it doesn't matter when it comes to NPCs. Go ahead and kill every monster ever, I don't care. But it would negatively affect PVP if mages could conjure up their most powerful spells on a whim, non-stop.

Just wondering, what makes you say this?  I don't know much about the higher levels of combat skills, but from what I've gathered, spells hit a damage cap relatively early on while melee damage continues to rise.  Which means for higher levels melee gets a much higher DPS than even the most powerful R5 spells.

(I'm not sure if this is true, but it's what I've heard/read.)

I say that for the same reason you said that; from what I've heard/read.

I was under the impression that magic was superior to melee in terms of Damage Per Second. Because that's what it's like in every game I've ever played and what it appeared to be like in my short time playing PS so far. I did not know that magic was actually inferior. By a lot, apparently.

Which explains Lumi's answer about PVP. It seems as if mages are not strong, but rather are very weak. This seems rather backwards, but that's a different issue.

@ Raxus : Oh you took my poor "mechanical" comparison of magic and blacksmith to the letter. I wasn't saying that magic is equal to blacksmith which would be totally silly indeed. I was talking of "mechanic". Mechanically, when a blacksmith start, he will hammer his ingots and loose physical stamina very fast. With the time he will work on his stats and his art and this problem will be nothing but a bad memory (Which is perfectly "balanced" since he worked hard on it).
Therefor if a mage (or a warrior), arrive at the same degree of mastership (stats and art), why would he/she keep on struggling to cast ?

I see. And I'll explain why:

From what I understood, magic is powerful stuff. Obviously not in PS like I thought, but lemme give you my reasoning before hand.

Magic was supposed to be damage. Lots of it. Mages had low health and strength and made up for it in damage. 'Glass cannons', basically. They could deal a bunch of damage, but could take little before being wiped out. That is why I was afraid for PVP; the mages didn't have to worry about warriors because the warriors would be toast before they even got close to the mages.

But to balance this, mages had to use mana quickly and get it back slow; PS does this (at least on the outset where I'm at), so I thought that magic was some powerful stuff that really took it out of the character to use. As you max rank your stats, your mana should be huge, but then the mage was still limited by the mental stamina; a balancing factor for a really damaging play style.

Against NPCs? No one cares. Against other players? A look to balance is in order.

Mages deal the damage while warriors take the damage. Usually in tough armor, they could take physical punishment for much longer than other fighting styles. Except they were susceptible to magic, because armor doesn't help against fire.


After you guys told me that mages are the weakest link, I figure I need to make a 180. If warriors out-match mages, then mages need those strong spells to keep up. R1 spells obviously won't cut it is warriors are 10x stronger than mages at max level, as not even R5 spells will at that point.


So, yeah. If mages aren't even powerful, then PVP has a completely different problem, in my eyes. But that's another topic for another time. I'm learning new things about PS every day.

More mental stamina souns just fine, with that straightened out; regardless of PVP or not.

thank you for the feedback but seriously there is no way you can spar with real steel for 30 minutes not even without chainmail. I know because I've been practicing medieval skirmish with medieval-like equipment.
Even unharmed combat like box cannot last more than a few minutes, same can be said for every other fighting discipline when you actually fight for real.

All medieval battles with anyone carrying a sword lasted minutes? Wow. I guess the Knights Templar really over did it in the heavy armor, fighting in the deserts of Saudi Arabia. Their battles lasted hours.

Probably all died from exhaustion afterward, I'm sure.




Personally, I also think that the physical stamina is good in concept, but needs work in its execution. Nothing so ridiculous as taking every tiny aspect and putting it into the system; just have stamina be used up a lot slower at the base and exponentially faster with whatever armor you are unused to wearing. But always faster with heavy armor than light armor if you are equally skilled with them.

Mental stamina, I'm more on the fence with. If PVP wasn't a thing at all, I'd say to do the same thing to it that I would physical stamina. But powerful spells are supposed to be hard to pull off, if there would be any sense of realism in this.

If PVP was ever used extensively, high-rank mages could just spam the R5 spells and trash just about everything. The low rank spells should be the bread and butter of a mage, with the medium ones used more often the larger your rank (but never as much as the lower ones), with the bigger ones used against a particularly nasty foe or as a finisher.

So, yeah. That changes if PVP is not a large consideration. Who cares about NPCs' feelings; let the mages trash every known monster in existence all at once for all I care.


Just my opinion.

Are you, the Devs, having issues with the natural improvement of stats through activity as a result of thinking it too complex for the players or too complex for the code?

You say the problem is technical, but then say that the issue is the complexity of it for players.

If it's too complex for code, there's no use in continuing. If it's merely the opinion of complexity for players, I would like to continue trying to convince others that it's not.

Raxuss's Jouarnl Jowrnrarl Stuff: Day 22?


I'm never writing anything about a day being precuducta produceulldy good ever again. Because obviously the luck reversed as soon as I stated it was good. Only amount of good luck I've kept is that they overlooked in confisskating confun taking my journal and ink. I might be here a while, so I may as well write. It might be my last time, anyway. And if you can't tell, yes, I can't write well today. My head is screwed up, I don't know what they did. Chemicals or magic. Something. But let's start from the beginning:


The day started off fine. Wandered around the city, ran some errands, helped Liera with her alcheermid potion research. I met with fellow traveler Kayjee at the tavern. I met him earlier in month, but only briefly. Good to see a famillair face, regardless. We sat down and had a mug while we watched (Note: and I shamelessly made fun of) some poor, weird family of people who really should look into figuring out who keeps setting them up for failure. I mean, every time I see them they're dealing with a new problem! Life is a clacker, but it can't (real-is-tic-ally) realistically be that bad, could it?

OHOHOHO WAIT. Yes, it can. As I write here, I'm sitting in a jail cell, my mind hardly functioning properly. I'm also really mad, but I have enough self-control to keep it down. It feels like I've been mad a while. Or was mad recently or something. I don't know, my brain is frazzled. But there is a tale to be told of my capture. A short, pathetic one, but there's a part where I feel I did something cool for half a second, so I'll retell it. Kayjee and I were sitting in the tavern watching this family. Now this family, I did recognize a few. While I was running, which I'll touch in a second, I recognized Timil, Prtrea Prtea Beratta Anysu's friend, and Anysu. The three I completely lied to my first mission with Kull. I still owe Timil for that 100 tria he gave me as a welcoming gift. One of these days when he's not carrying a potentially apo...yeah, not even trying. I'm just going to shelf my vocublary for a while. And I'm pretty sure I spelt that wrong, too.

Anyway, when Timil doesn't have a sickness capable of wiping out races, then I'll buy him a cold one. Assuming I'm still around.

Back to the tale. We (Kayjee and I) were watching these fools when someone suddenly comes down the stairs. Can you guess who? The first thing to go wrong is the first thing I said went right the last time I wrote. That's right! Rolark comes waltzing down the stairs. I got my butt out of there! I said goodbye to Kayjee and bolted. I was convinced that he didn't see me. I breathed hard and was thinking of a hiding spot for the evening when I instinktitf gut-feeling-looked back to see if he was following to see the man heading right for me.

I freaked. Honest as death I freaked. I bolted, not knowing where to turn. Eventually I ran over toward Percival. Perciviel? The winch guard. He gave me a look, but I was too scared to care. This is the same man who almost killed me earlier with fire!

I ran past the guard and found myself in the dead end where the sewer's entrance was. I was a goner, I thought. But no! This is my only moment of triumph this night; I'm going to glorify the blazes out of it.

I hid right around the corner for the man. And, sure enough, Rolark runs right past me, into the sewers; he thought I went in! I sprinted as soon as he went in, straight for the pteranodon pteronadon flying lizard behind the temple. The exchange of tria took longer than I thought, but I made it! The ten minutes of flight was the most soothing I've ever had. It was beautiful; I outsmarted Rolark. I'm grinning now just thinking about it.

But, I'm in jail. Sadly, the story must go on. Talk about truth and it hurting.

I arrive in Ojadeva and waste no time; I needed to find a hiding spot. Granted I should've picked a much better spot than I did; I didn't think I needed to. How could Rolark know I took a flying lizard when he saw me go down into the sewers? Again, I was grinning the entire time. I just went behind one of the tents in the market district and bam, wait for nighttime when I could contact Kull and my other allies.

The impossible happened. I'm sitting behind the tent and who walks up behind it to glare at me?

Rolark. Looking as if he had never lost sight of me.

By Talad, I hate writing about this. It can't get any worse, right? About to get fried or run through by the angriest person since Stashka. But it did. It DID get worse.

But that's the bad part; I don't know how. I remember it getting worse and I remember lying to myself as hard as I could, but I can't remember why. I was questioned, yes. He asked me about my involvement with Sarren and the spirits inside of him. I didn't care, at that point. I was willowing...no. Whallowing? Soaking in my own pathetic lack of ability to even escape Rolark with such an awesome slip I gave him! But then, something happened. He did something. I don't know what, but the last thing I remember is mumbling about hating guards as he had someone tie me up and lead me away.

I don't know what I said, I don't know what I didn't say, but there's definitely one thing for certain:

I screwed up. I should've called for help. I was supposed to call for Hemmel or for Baras, or even the new guys. I should have called for help. I was being tracked by an experienced, renown mage and I didn't even think about calling for help. But I didn't. I lost. Maybe made the Sindika Syndikcta my allies lose.

I failed and I won't be surprised if I never hear from them again. I probably compromised them. They'll all probably dead or hiding, now. Even if they aren't, I am now more of a liability than an asset.



Writing...the process of writing helps me think. I come to conclusions as I write out my thoughts upon this paper and I realized that I am very much doomed.




My head hurts, I'm sitting in jail, and Kull and the others are never coming for me.



Hope you enjoyed the Journal. Sorry for ending on such a low note, but criminals like me don't get happy endings. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Kull, away from Roled Rolark, and away from Sarren. I don't want any more journals like this.

And if you ever do end up like me, working for Kull?

Make sure he gives you the bloody password.



R. Isturu
Only 24 days after Evacuation

I failed my family. I'm so sorry.

I get what you're saying and I agree with you, because I like (and choose) to roleplay a character with similar abilities to what my skills/stats dictate.  But from what I've gathered in the time I've been playing and reading the forums, most RPers tend to ignore the stat and skill systems entirely.  It isn't just limited to combat.  People want to play master chefs but not take the time to train cooking/baking.  People want to play a healer/doctor without taking the time to train magic or herbal.  Some people just like making a bunch of characters but don't develop them with any in-game skills.

My point is, if you find someone who also wants to base stuff on stats, great.  But don't expect it to be the norm.

I'll keep that in mind. Thank you.

I'm all for this.  Mining should give small bonuses to strength.  Running to endurance.  Melee/knives/LA practice to agility.  Spells to mental stats (each Way has a governing stat, right?), etc.

I just don't want these to be the ONLY way to raise stats.  That would make training take even longer and be even more painful.

Certainly not! I stated several times that the way you train for stats now should stay the same, only adding this aspect to the current system.


Thank you for reading and for your feedback on the idea. I hope I contributed more than irritated; I saw myself starting to repeat annoyingly there.

I agree with your post completely, save one point: that the system used is flawed of itself. Every instance you had shown was a problem wrought not of the system, but of the players playing. Let me answer each problem with my own opinionated answer:

All three cases are only in the case where this system is the only rule. As tman stated, the numbers need not matter. They only matter when it adds to the fun and immersiveness (<--- not a word, apparently). If it takes away, I would expect no single person to apply it in that situation. Just because it can be used in every situation does not mean it should be.

RP smart and with fun in mind.


If people have low stats, let them play anyway. RP that they have larger stats or simply hand-wave the stats completely.

If people are new and want to play larger roles, do the same as the above.

Your last example makes it sound like you have a slight misconception on how I believe stats should be used. So, I'll explain.

Stats are more indicators than concrete, comparative attributes in RPs of mine.

"More like guidelines, than actual rules." - Best Pirate

If in the case that an old man slits your throat, no amount of stats can save you from that. This is Role Play; we try be realistic here. Even in reality a buff, seasoned veteran would die to that stuff.


So, yes. Always exceptions with exceptional cases. That is what I like to think of as RP's flexibility; grand. It's whatever the players want it to be. It is up to the players to play regarding all available resources suitable for the situation.


Godmodders and OOC justifications are simply ignored, far as I'm concerned. Unless you specifically tell me you value your character's life more than your own, your character has a chance of getting their butt handed to them.

Actually, my guild leader and I combat RPed using stats. We gauged the strength of individuals in combat and the effectiveness of attacks and defense based on your skills.

For example, during our battle the enemy cast Flame Burst. I cast it right back. We decided that, because their rank in the Red Way was higher, their Burst would blow through mine, with greatly lessened damage (they were, like, one rank above me in RW).

I speak only for myself onward when I say that use the descriptions of creatures and people, along with my intelligence to gauge how perceptive my character is, to dictate my character's next actions. I will certainly act tough and threaten some meager swordsman with my magic, but will treat Arch-Mages with caution and respect.

Not to mention judging when I should ICly run away or continue the fight.

You are right that stats aren't necessary to RP. But they make the experience far more immersive and realistic if we set those stats as our character's actual boundaries. Needing to work them up through experience and 'living their life' to become better really reflects actual reality.


I have 'more fun' with stats that way. And I'd prefer if RPers were also considered when you want to 'raise the fun factor'.

I think we should tear out the kitchen out of your house and put the bedroom there. What can we do to make this happen?

That is not reflective of what I'm suggesting. If it cannot happen, it cannot happen.

But so far, a remaking of the skills seems to be the only solution that has been brought forward. If someone would suggest something that fixes the problem without remaking the skills (both for grinders and RPers), then I would happily get behind it. So far, it's just suggestions getting shot down.

A solution is the goal. If that solution is impossible, it's still the only solution, like it or not.

Quote from: Raxuss on October 24, 2013, 08:03:15 pm

People already grind stats. It's the same grind you do when you grind for skills. PP + tria + trainer.

This is not the definition of grinding.  Grinding is when you mine for 2 straight hours to rank up one level, or bash 138 trepor skulls in to raise an axe level.  Buying stats is not the same as grinding skills at all.

Oh, I included the money-making and experience-earning in there with grinding. Because especially in early levels, you find yourself grinding more for PP and tria than you are actually grinding for that 'on-the-job' experience.

But if that's not what you are talking about, I apologize. I meant it all.